This week on the Happy half Hour, he said the words man, he said, the magic words keep pounding means something to Steve Wilts because he grew up around it, and he talked about I was here when things were good and it was almost like being at a tent revival. You know. The music's coming up behind him while he's saying this text. It's time for the Happy Half Hour with your friends Kristen Balboni, Augusta Stone and Darren Gannon.
That's right, it's that time of the week. It's the Happy half Hour podcast with your friends Darren, Augusta and Kristen and guys. You know, there's nothing much to talk about this week, right, It's a shame. Yeah, I don't have much on the rundown. Yeah, here on Thursday morning. This is like the first time I've taken a deep breath and stopped for more than thirty seconds at a time. Did you sleep at your desk at any point this week? I think I crawled under it, you know, So it's uh, yeah,
there's there's some stuff going on. It's been a week here at Bank of America Stadium. Well, let's I think the best way to do that. I mean, if you were listening to this podcast, there is no doubt that you know the Panthers have parted ways with former head coach Matt Rule. Steve Wilks is now the interim head coach.
But daring to your point about it being an interesting week, I thought, what would be really great is to go through it almost day by day and what has happened and get you guys insight, my insight, and take fans through a little bit of the behind the scenes what we've learned about everything. So after um, you know, the Panthers lose on Sunday at home. On Monday, we get the news early in the day that David Tepper has
made the decision to let go of Matt Rule. And you know what I mean, I think everybody wants it to be one big, acute thing, and there are people who want to know, oh, what was the moment when you decided? It was never about one moment. Now they're reporters who you know, did I don't know that their reporters um if there are if if you're looking for a reason, and you could say, well, there was a sea of red jerseys that are high contrast and really visible in the stands for a twenty two point loss,
which is the worst loss of the season. I guess you could say that, but at a certain point, and I mentioned this the other day in the mail bag, at a certain point, eleven and twenty seven carries its own weight, and you don't, I don't know that you need a lot more reason other than eleven and twenty seven. And you know, I will say not in Matt rules defense.
He didn't need me to defend him. But um, a lot of the things Matt talked about wanting to try to do the specific things, the specific fixes for this team that he talked about were absolutely correct. Uh. He also was not um part of acquiring great quarterback solutions over three years, and that's part of the problem ongoing.
And if when you add all that stuff up together, I mean, be in seven and eleven and twenty seven and it's the you know, I was around here for George Seyffert for the one in fifteen year when the owner said it sucked the energy out of the organization. And when you look at it, I mean George's career record winning persentage still higher than Matt. So I mean it was tough and and it was a bad situation, and it wasn't entirely one person's fault, and getting rid
of one person is not going to fix it. But it wasn't working well to your point, That's exactly what David Tepper told us. He told us, you know, it's about getting over the hump, and that's just not where we were. And at this point, it's you know, what can push to that to that point And it's like Darren said, you know, not being able to find a quarterback, you know, striking out three times, just not being able to find that permanent, good, solid option. And it's not
from a lack of trying either, I don't think. I mean, I agree, you know, and so it's one of those things where it had gotten to the point where I mean he had been he had been patient, and it was you know, I just we all look for like like Darren said, you know, was it the sea of it? Was it all of these things? It wasn't. It was simply at that point, you know, we're not getting over the hump, and you know we're ready to try something new.
And I think Augusta, you make a great point. Um, no one in this building was not trying to win games, but at the end of the day, as you both said, eleven and twenty seven, one and four to start this season, um, they felt like it was time for a change. And Darren, you have, as you said, you have been around this organization through multiple coaching changes before we look ahead, and we're going to do a lot of that in this podcast.
What does it What does it mean for a team, for a coaching staff, for an organization when there is an early coaching change in the season, right, Well, the Panthers have never done it this early. You know, Perry Fuel finished up after Ron Rivera, but that was a four game, you know, slog to the finish. There's a lot of season left now, and it creates an unusual dynamic because even though Matt's gone, there are a lot of people who Matt brought year who are still working.
And it's I I say this genuinely, it's impressive to me to see the people that Matt brought here showing up doing their jobs, doing them with a smile on their face. I mean, you see people who were his assistants in other places and they've got same energy today because that's the job. I mean, these are these are people of character who show up when you know they
are kind of personally hurting. And I've talked to some of these people in the halls, and you know, it's emotional for them because they came here with him for a reason, and it's an awkward situation in some ways because they don't know what's next for them, and they show up and they do the job. And I respect that, and I've told a couple of them face to face.
I mean, it's just when you see that, you can't help but appreciate the effort that goes into you know, everybody sees football team, fifty three dudes on the field on Sunday, a big coaching staff, whatever, but there's a small army of people it takes to put this product out on a week to week basis. And you know, it sounds kind of cold and it sounds maybe callous, but the show must go on and these people are
continuing to put on the show. And I'm glad that you brought that up, because that is something that I have the utmost respect for. Is UM. There is a good contingent of people, as Darren said, who were came here from Baylor Temple. UM bought houses, you know, UM have families, and regardless of of anything, whether it was
the right decision, you never want people to lose their jobs. Um. And so it has been in it has been a tough week in some respects here for for a lot of people that we know and interact with on a daily basis. That being said, um, Darren, as you said, a lot of them are continuing right now as far as we know. Defensive coordinator Phil Snow, assistant special teams coach at fully are no longer continuing, but everyone else
is staying the same. So before we get into the Steve Wilkes of it all, I do want to ask a hypothetical to both of you, and I think it's something that a lot of fans wonder, and I asked
Steve looks this yesterday as well. When you are an interim coach, someone who has been a former head coach certainly is very well equipped to do this job, but did not hire the people underneath you, and you start out one and four, how much can be done to change the things that you want to change to galvanize the team, Because, as you said, Darren, there is a lot of season left and certainly Panthers fans want to
see them win some games. Sure, And I think it's going to be interesting to see, especially offensively, because there'll be some changes defensively with Al Holcomb replacing Phil Snow
as coordinator. I mean, they might call some things differently, they might look a little bit differently in terms of alignment, But I don't think the changes are going to be that big on that side of the ball because if you look back, Al Holcomb was Steve's defensive coordinator in Arizona, and and Don Johnson, the defensive line coach pass roach specialist, was his d line coach Arizona. So there there is familiarity, and these guys have known each other for a long time.
So I think there's an opportunity for you know, even though you're making some changes almost continuity, that's the side of the ball you can depend on, and I think that will be the side of the ball you will continue to depend on. If you're the Carolina Panther, you wouldn't want it to change that much, I wouldn't think, because they are doing a good job. Yes, exactly. Well, that's something I actually got to speak with J. J. Jansen, who I feel like, like Darren told me and it's
so true. He's like the historian in the locker room. You know, he just he knows like he talking to him. You know, you ask him three questions and he talks for five minutes and it's just amazing and perfect well well on, you know, it's just it's it's very useful stuff Like I'm sitting here in the whole time, like I feel like I'm reading a book like this is just so useful. But one of the things he talked about was with Wilkes, because they know him pretty well.
He was here from seventeen and also the fact that he's been on staff and he has that presence which on Noble talk about at some point, but he has such a commanding presence that it's like, oh yeah, everyone in that locker room already had so much respect for him. So he's made kind of these minor tweaks that I
find really interesting. Um, like changing the days that they were pads from Thursdays to Wednesdays to get you know, just kick start the week and and start off physically and then um, but also just just he doesn't want to change too much. I think one of the things that he said yesterday that I really liked was that he's simplifying but going faster and those and you could feel that rhythm in practice. I think I think you could feel I kept asking the players. I was like,
did it feel bouncy? Because it felt bouncy and they were like. I was talking to Davey on Nixon and he was like, yeah, I think it did feel bouncy because it was like there's just a pep to the step. I don't know how to describe it other than I just felt, you know, like everything was moving at a higher pace. And so I think pacing is one thing. Intensity is one thing. But nothing like schematic overhauls or anything. Because it's it's week six. You can't do that at
this point. But there's like subtle things that I think make a big difference. And it's interesting. Yesterday out on the practice field, there was some guy named Luke something or other just hanging out on the sidelines and I asked him, you know when they walked in the door,
um wearing full pads. I said, you know, this is how you guys did it right when, back during the Ron Rivery years And he said yeah, And I said, what's the difference Wednesday to Thursday, and he said, for me, I liked it because a get him out of the way early in the week. You know, I liked Okay, if you know you're gonna carry pads, if you know it's going to be a contact day, you wanted out the way early. But he said, from a practical standpoint, a lot of times when the game plan goes in,
Wednesday is first down, second down day. It's the day you're working on run stuff. It's the day you're doing inside drills. And so when you get to Thursday and it's third down day and a lot of pass coverage stuff, he said, just from a practical standpoint, it's easier to not carry pads on Thursday. And that is a minor change.
I mean, if you look at a seven day week, you know, do they get extra time to recover from wearing pads now under this schedule, yes, But they also have a day fewer to recover on the other side. So it's a six and one half a dozen of another kind of distinction, I think. But just listening to Luke talk about what it does, and and I think as much as anything else, Steve probably did it to get everybody's attention and to say, hey, you know, and j J in Augustus story this morning said it perfectly.
It was almost like hitting the reset button and it was a chance to sort of focus everybody all right over here on me. This is what we're gonna do. It's gonna be in pads. It's gonna be a little more direct. It's going to be, you know, just going down the checklist. And that's kind of the way Steve's approaching this right now. I agree completely. You know, Um, Jonathan Stewart was standing beside Luke at practice and he
pointed out to me the difference of pads on Wednesday. Um, he said, you know, this does look a little bit different pads on Wednesday. And then I later talked to Steve Wilkes and he pointed out the pads on Wednesday. Now, to your point, Augusta and Darren, is that going to make a difference in in wins and losses that alone
over the course of the season. No, But it is a great example of some things that you can change and mold to the to your philosophy, UM, as an interim head coach that you feel helps the team perform better without Augusta, as you said, really going in and say, Okay, we're gonna do things entirely different. So it is, as you said, a reset. I want to go back to Steve Wilkes the person as well, because, like I said, if you're listening to this podcast, you have probably read
the coverage on Panthers dot com. Hopefully you will see our interviews with him and learn more about him. But we've all had a chance to talk to him and talk to the current players that have played for him in the secondary former players, and so I just want to get a sense from from you too about who he is and why this is different. Potentially, then, as we have talked about in the past, when you have an interim head coach kind of coming in to finish
things out, because it does feel very different. A lot of that starts with who Steve Wilkes is as a coach in person. Right. One of my favorite things about Steve, and pardon me if I get a little corny here, but Steve is from and of he is Charlotte. Man. I mean that kid grew up he was born here, he grew up here, he played it West Charlotte, went to Appalachian State, came home and played for the Charlotte Rage for God's sakes out at the old Colisseum on
Thai Vola. He is Charlotte to his core. Can I interject really quickly because I have a story that I think you're going to love, and then I want to get right back to that. I asked him about this yesterday. I said, what made you want to come back? And what has drawn you back to this place? And he said the same thing. He said, Charlotte's home. He said, I always used to joke that I had two favorite teams in the NFL, the one I was currently working for in the Panthers. So to come back as DB's
coach had simplified things a little bit. He said, we actually kept our house in Charlotte each time we moved um. And I said, I said, Steve, did the Rinners treat it right when you move back in? And he said, actually, we didn't have Wrinners. So he's I mean, don't know if his wife was gonna be okay with him saying that, but daring to your point, I just wanted to interject there there is no doubt that he considers this place
his home. Yeah, no doubt. And and one of us is strong I mean one of you know he I think that's why there's kind of a feeling out in the community. Is the situation he's walking to into ideal. It is not the problems that led to this team being one and four remain. It's still an uncertain quarterback situation, even when everybody's healthy, which they are not. But there's something about Steve that presence. That word comes up a lot.
My god, if you watch the forty two second video from his first press conference, he said the words man, he said the magic words keep pounding means something to Steve Wilkes because he grew up around it. And he talked about I was here when things were good, and it was almost like being at a tent revival. You know, the music's coming up behind him while he's saying this, And and people do flashback. They do remember fifteen and one in two thousand and fifteen, They do remember Thieves Avenue.
They do remember Josh Norman going from being kind of a fifth round afterthought to becoming all pro cornerback Josh Norman thanks to Steve Wilkes. And you know, there's a good feeling attached to that. And Steve's got that quality about him. I mean I kind of joked about it internally just looking at the pictures. This man has a
cinematic quality about him. They his players called him Denzel back in the days, and oh, I can see that now that you say that he's got that whatever that is, Steve's got that, and he knows how to command a room, and you know he did it. And I actually, like, you know, I was talking earlier about admiring the people who show up and do the thing when it's uncomfortable. It would have been so easy for Steve to turn Tuesday into the Steve Wilkes Show and come, look at
the guy. Yeah, let's talk about Johnson C. Smith. Let talk about with Charlotte. And he kind of made a passing mention. He's like, listen, I know it's important. I know it's important for people from my community to see people succeeding. But this is about how we fix this one and four football team. This is about we got a game, sunny. I bet he said focus on the rams about five times during a twenty minute press conference,
so you could tell where his head was. And as easy as it would have been to turn it into the Steve Show, he kept spinning it back to yes, I know, yes, that's important, but over here we got two rams. Over here, we've got to lock in on the football and the stuff we gotta fix this week. And to be fair, he probably is. I mean, he does have to game plan on a short week, but for a team that he was not the head coach
of last week. So I did get that sense of in terms of professionalism, he probably is like in his head answering these questions from me or from either of you, going okay, well if we adjust this a little bit, and that is what you want from your coach, Augusta. What have you learned about him from from talking to players exactly? I think the locker room, Like Darren said, you know, he he really does have their attention. I think that's one of the biggest things. Um. I heard
everyone I talked to just about yesterday. I talked to five or six different guys about it, and they all kind of gave the same message, which is something that he had told us in the press conference. But it's something that I feel like just in terms of that locker room. I mean, we went in there after the forty nine years game and it it felt, you know, it was they were they were disappointed, and you could feel that disappointment. And then going in, yeah, it was.
It was a tough loss. It was very tough. It was the roughest locker room experience since I've been here, easily. And then it felt like we had been very well removed from that, just from being a few days yesterday. And everyone I talked to was like, I mean, coach Looks said, he told us, you know, seasons not canceled. Seasons not canceled. And that's something I just kept here, you know, No matter what I asked, they were like, he said, season is not canceled. And they like that message.
You could tell that they you know, there was also that since of disappointment, like Okay, you know, this is a business. The job is to get results. If we don't get results, and this happens, and and I like, I think they like the fact that Steve has been so direct with them, like, okay, so the reason that I am here is because we haven't been performing, so we need to be better. Very pointed. And I think that kind of pointed, tough love kind of thing has
really resonated with a lot of the guys. Um they really seemed to to to buy in. I mean everyone from I talked to Gante Foreman for a while and he's one of those guys. Sometimes you catch him and he's really talkative, sometimes he's not. Yesterday he really wanted to talk about it, which I thought was kind of cool.
Um JJ obviously, and then Christian McCaffrey. I think Christian really really likes the I think he likes what Steve Wilkes brings, the intensity, the pointedness, things like that, and one thing, I think it's in the interest of fairness. It's worth point. Now we talked about and I used the word bleak about that locker room that was a result of the game rather than any kind of pervasive sense in the room. That is a great point because
I knew that immediately what you were saying. But that's a it's a great point to point out to people listening. The locker room was not bad. It's not like there was any kind of descent in there. It's a pretty tight knit group. And Augusta came in the summer and saw the Panthers games, and you know, you were there and we saw how this team was kind of coming closer together. It was actually a pretty good locker room
they are. I'm down there on the sidelines throughout the games they played together four and a half minutes left in that game to score game. They're still working, they're still game planning, and Darren, I think that's a great point. You you want them, I would think as a fan, you want the locker room to not be jubilant and
happy after a three score loss um to the forty Niners. Yeah, I mean, the results are are the reason things kind of look bad, not any kind of internal conflict or personalities or vides or any of that kind of stuff. I mean, we've talked about it after games already this season. It would be really easy for those Cats on defense to say, all right, boys, we're doing our part, do yours. But that stuff's never really happened. And it wasn't like
this toxic environment before. Um, there was just some frustration about the way games we're going. So it's it's interesting you walk in there was somebody where was it? Oh in Miami? Uh? They took the ping pong tables out of the locker room. Uh in Miami, and ping pong tables are always kind of the barometer of the mood of a room because people are playing ping pong and they're winning, it means, oh, look at this camaraderie, Look at this chemistry. Everybody's together and having fun and playing
ping pong. And if you're losing, ping pong becomes oh, they're distracted. They're not paying enough attention to their work. They you can't have fun when it's bad. Uh, ping pong tables still in the locker room. Yes, life is fairly normal, believe it or not. I mean, and that's what it is so weird coming from a daily newspaper background. I mean, we always called it the daily miracle that you put this thing and every day. But football kind
of works like that too. You know, Johnny Hecker and j J. Jansen and Deonte Foreman and Davian Nixon, they got to show up and do Wednesday. They can't get caught up in the historical sweep of events that's happening around them because there's practice and and Johnny and I were talking about this yesterday. It's just you have to stay locked in on the stuff that makes Wednesday good. You have to lock in on doing Thursday's film session, right if you want to break out of a skit
or do anything like that. And you know, Johnny was part of a Rams team last year that didn't win a game in November. Things turned out okay for the Rams, So you know, it was kind of interesting hearing that perspective because I think when you get a you know, a fairly historical change. This was the fifth head coach in Panthers history. Uh walking out the door onom Monday, and it was pretty you know, it was a significant moment.
But everybody shows up the next day for work and it's like, all right, what do we gotta do now? I agree, So let's talk about you mentioned the ramps. Let's let's look ahead quickly, UM, because as Augusta said, I love this. I hope maybe it's the episode title. This this coaching change, and Steve Wilkes, the energy that
he has brought, has pressed the reset button. But if you look at UM on paper, at least the game that they are going to play on a short week with a new head coach, some changes maybe not going to Maybe you wouldn't choose to go out west, Um, to to go across the country and play the defending Super Bowl champions when you're starting quarterback is is hurt and um, you and he may or may not play, but they are currently practicing with p J. Walker, um
and assuming that he will be the starting quarterback for this game. So let's talk about what the Panthers are up against this weekend and the latest, especially on the quarterback situation. Right, not ideal. Baker came out of that game last week. We're in a walking boot on his left hand, on his left foot and ankle. I mean, he's got an ankle sprain of some degree. I mean, I always in this one of my pit pieces. But the way things get reported, it's like, oh my god,
he's gonna be out for six weeks. Maybe not. I mean, and Steve said it yesterday. He knows Baker, and after talking to him yesterday, Baker kind of wants to be active on Sunday. We'll see if he is. I don't I don't know. That might be optimistic, but if he's not able to, then it's it's p J. Walker and I will say Baker, listen, Baker Mayfield has not played well. Baker's playing at a level we didn't even see last
year when he was heard in Cleveland. The one thing no one's alleging is that he's not putting everything he's got into this deal. I mean, Christian McCaffrey, for god's sakes, said something the other day about the guys out there with a jacked up ankle, and he wasn't coming out of that game and fill the very end. And I think that was to protect him as much as anything else. But Baker is a tough guy. Baker is gonna try.
I just don't know. Steve said if he didn't practice this week, he wouldn't feel good playing him in the game. And if that happens, welcome back p J. Walker, who's who's had to step in a couple of times over the last couple of years and start a game. But when he does step in, there are some interesting things to note, according to our very own Panther stats guy. So let's get to will stat of the week. Will do you remember back in the seventies when sitcoms were
tape live in front of a studio audience. Sure, Darren, of course not. Why would you you're a child? Okay, it's Panthers stats Guy. And now that we've had that diversion, here's this week's Panther stats guys. Stat of the week. Well, as we sit here on Thursday, it's looking more and more likely that p J Walker will be getting to start against the Rams on Sunday. And if that doesn't happen, then this this just never happened. But I have a
stat for that. PJ is looking for his third start to go three and oh and his first three career starts. He'd be forty quarterback in NFL history to start three oh in his first three. However, you look at some of his career numbers and you're like, I don't know. He's so much better as a starter than he is as someone coming in the fourth quarter, which has affected
his career stats. So let's take a look as a starter seventy percent completion percentage six point seven five yards per attempt with a seventy six point five passer rating. As a backup only, completion rating five point six yards per attempt with a rating passer rating of thirty three point two. So when he gets that full week of first team reps and he's ready to go on Sunday, he's a guy that can really step in and play good. PJ can be good. Sun Thanks Will will always brings it.
I mean, some guys are starters and some guys are relievers. I remember, back in the old days, Matt More a quarterback of vintage that old school Panthers fans will remember. Matt was great coming off the bench and finishing up a game if somebody got hurt. When Matt had to start, it was the opposite of p J. I mean, I think when Matt started he overprocessed some things maybe and and it was a little bit tighter. But he was one of those grip and rip it kind of guys
who could come in the third quarter. But again to to Will's point, when PJ has started, it's been all right now that that Lions game in twenty he throws a couple of red zone uh picks. Not ideal, but it was in the middle of the shutout of the Lions, and that was near the end of the Matt Patricia era in Detroit Um. But the Arizona game, I mean, he threw a pick out in the middle of the field in Arizona, and that was kind of It wasn't
the p J. Walker game. It was the Cam Newton game, as everybody remembers from last p J Walker got them down the field and he moved that team between the twenties pretty reliably. He was two twenty nine that day and then the touchdown everyone remembers where Cam Newton came in and said to the camera, I'm back. P J Walker had gotten them to that position. So so PJ is capable of playing good ball. And the guys again, the guys in the locker room kind of dig on
PJ because Pj's got this unfhazed energy about him. I mean, he just really I get a kick out of PJ because listen, p J Walker's college coach who brought him to Carolina got fired on Monday and he's starting on Wednesday. This is not normal. This ain't might not be in the top three insane things p J Walker's scene in his life. I mean, he was standing in Indianapolis the day Andrew looks like, yeah, this isn't working out. I'm done,
and everybody's like, wait, what you know our quarterbacks retiring? Yeah, Tienda training camp right for the start of the regular season. So Pj's seen some things, He's been in some stuff, and I think in a weird way, and this sounds peculiar. Again, you're going to play the Rams You're getting on a plane flight across country to play the defending Super Bowl champs, who have this guy named Aaron Donald reckoned stuff in the middle of the line, and they've got this guy
named Cooper cup who leads the nfcing receptions. And it's just it's not an ideal situation. But p J doesn't seem bothered by this. That's one thing that I have learned. And I think you could say this and know it, but we see it every day. You know, if I were a backup quarterback, UM, who wasn't sure if I was gonna see the field this year, Um, and I my first time going in a regular season game or starting in a regular season game was going to be with Aaron Aaron Donald staring me down. I would be
very nervous, right. But you don't make it to the NFL, and you don't succeed in the NFL unless you want every opportunity and believe that you can overcome all of that and win a game for your team. It's just it's it's just a fact. All of those guys are in that locker room or in any locker room and have succeeded this far because they believe in themselves and they are good enough to be here exactly, and they're solid.
I mean, I was just thinking about it because I talked with Jacobson yesterday too, who is practice squad quarterback taking scout team reps yesterday, taking his first live reps since coming to Carolina in practice, which was you know. I talked to him about it and he kind of laughed. He was like, yeah, if it was my first time doing that, you know, outside of drills and everything. But um, talking with p J, you know throughout, I was just thinking.
I mean, obviously his career to this point has been wild, but even here this point, I mean, you had in training camp it was Sam Donald versus Baker Mayfield. Also Matt Corral is here, and it's like, oh yeah, p J. Walker. And to see it's week six and now he's already, you know, taking the first team reps in practice. It's
just kind of crazy. But it takes that level of mentality to be so level, like no matter what day of the week you're talking to p J or Jacobson or anybody there, they don't and and all football players that you talked to, you know, they're like, I can't get too hot, I can't get too low all this stuff, but they really exemplify it better than any because they don't I mean sometimes they won't see the field at all, but no matter what, when they're called up, they're like
same as always. That's what p J said. He's like, I prepare like I'm the starter all the time, and it's it's just they're so even killed. And that's honestly, like outside of football, that's a good life perspective. Like, honestly, I wouldn't be more like J. Not not every football is this way, not every football player is this way. But p J Walker was blessed with the gift of self awareness. P J Walker understands better than anybody. If Matt Corral and Sam Donald don't get hurt in the preseason,
he is unemployed. He was not gonna be on this roster. He was the fourth or fourth throughout training camp. Felt bad for him at times because you know, they're out there doing weekly press conference with Baker and Sam during this competition and oh, by the way, as shiny new rookie, you know, and just but p J kept just doing his PJ thing and and being ready for whatever came to him. And now let's come to him again, that Jimmy Garoppolo of the Southeast. If I may, uh no,
we will have um. This was this was a great episode. I hope everyone got some insight into what it's been like in the building this week, and we will have plenty to talk about next week on the Happy Half Hour podcast. So thank you both for all of your insight and thank all of you for listening. We'll see you next Thursday. M M wow.