Leroy

Previously on Happy Face.

How did Keith get away with it for so long?

Laverne A.

Pavlanac is accused of four counts of aggravated murder, rape, sex abuse, kidnapping, and felony murder for the death of Tanya A.

Bennett.

Pavlanak fed police anonymous tips that led to the arrest of her longtime boyfriend, John A.

Sasnovsky.

Laverne was trying to get rid of her boyfriend. She convinced him by saying she had participated in the murder with John Susnovskian.

If it weren't for the anonymous letter, the case might well have remained forgotten. Quote Honor about January twentieth, nineteen ninety I picked up Sonia Bennett and took her home. The name is Tanya, not Sonya Bennett, and she was killed according to the experts who examined the body on the night of January twenty first, not the twentieth.

Melissa and I reached out to Jim McNeely, a retired detective from the Moltnomah County Sheriff's Department.

He knew what he was talking about, and he had information on those murders that hadn't been in the papers.

Jefferson kind of saw you as a partner in this.

We were conspiring to prove that he was guilty.

There's always been one person Melissa has been afraid to meet the son of Jefferson's last victim, Don Findley. We spoke for a couple of hours, and I was finally able to convince him to meet you.

And the vies in love vies with.

I don't know, shine, oh.

Oh.

There's an almost numbing quality to hearing Keith describe as crimes. The details are almost too horrific to fully absorb. We know the way he tied women up, how he beat raped and stopped them from breathing, And yet some seem more shocked to hear how he tortured a cat than how many women's lives he took. But over a period of five years from nineteen ninety to nineteen ninety five,

From I The Creation of a Serial Killer by Jack Olson. The morning after I killed Julie Winningham, my eighth victim, I drove to Vancouver, Washington to get my driver's license renewed. On my way, I thought about moving Julie's body farther from the road, but I decided it was too much bother I drove straight through to Baker City, Oregon, and played a little cribbage. I made a few bucks and hit on some of the women. I gave a couple of Julie's old coats to a cute girl from Boise.

So who is Don Findley and why are you so afraid to meet him?

Don Finley is the son of Julie Winningham, my father's last victim. He was present the entire trial of his mother's murder, and he faced my father in court. I first heard about him by reading the Oregonian and his statements in court. I instantly wanted to meet him decades ago, and have made attempts to reach out to him and been rejected. I had heard that he wanted to do the things that my dad did to his.

Mom to me.

Where did you hear that from.

A producer when I had the show Monster in My Family. The whole premise of the show is to connect perpetrator's family members with victims family members, and the number one person I wanted to meet was done, so I had a producer reach out to him, and that producer had relayed the information to me that he he had thought about that, that he thought about harming me in the same fashion that my dad had harmed his mom, because.

He wanted revenge by taking something from your dad. I think that he he vilified you quite a bit, and he thought that you had this perfect, wonderful life and that you had never suffered because of the harm your father had inflicted upon people. And I told him a little bit about your work and about the fact that you really wanted You've spent your entire adult life trying

And so he decided he.

Was touch and go, but he said that he'd be willing to try. I mean, he never gave me a guarantee that he was actually going to show.

Up My hope is that it's several things. Honestly, my real hope is I just want to say I'm sorry. I want him to know how sorry I am.

For what my father did.

It's just true, true sadness for what happened. And I can't offer any restitution or bring his mom back, and my sorrow for his mom's loss isn't enough. There's nothing I could give him, but I definitely want him to know how sorry I am. I think that's the best I can offer. That's all I can offer.

Let it happen. Look at I mean this is the place he picked.

I mean this is adorable.

Okay, so we're looking at the most adorable little seaside cafe that's actually sitting on the water. And to get there you have to walk on this kind of metal grate that rocks back and forth. The cafe is this cheerful, turquoise blue. It sits not by the water, but on the water. I think it's gonna be an interesting meeting.

He picked it, he picked this location. This feels very friendly. I don't know, I'm.

Cheerful, it's peaceful.

It's hard because.

I'm because I don't know what I'm gonna walk into.

Oh my gosh, Oh my gosh. Walking on this it's like walking on still.

I'll be right back.

Don asked that we not roll audio until after they'd had a chance to meet.

I think that's him. I think I think he's behind me. This guy's arms crossed. I'm gonna turn turn my back so I'm sweet can meet with Lauren. I'm glad Lauren's meeting with him first. He he looks, he looks tense.

Hm.

I like the location he picked.

I gestured for Melissa to come over, and she had to cross this metal plank to get back from where she was standing on the water to me. And Melissa is shaking so hard that the entire thing is trembling as she's walking because she's so nervous. And she walks up to Don and without saying anything, he opens up his arms and they embrace, and Melissa just starts sobbing. It was one of the most beautiful moments I think

God. It was.

When he hugged me and just stretched his arms and he hugged me, it felt like the wash of forgiveness purified my heart, Like it just melted away my anxiety, an anxiety that was interwoven in my fibers of my being. Like I didn't realize how tense I've been walking my life until he hugged me. And it was like this relaxation and solace that I've never felt before. And it was something that I thought I could seek in religion and find that solace through a forgiveness of a loving God.

That was a lot.

Yeah, if you're gonna do it, you gotta do it right or don't do it at all.

Yeah.

And it's got to.

Come out girl, Sorry, And it's gonna be the hardest.

Yeah, because this whole time.

I can only imagine what your thoughts are sitting back.

Like I said, I've put.

Myself in your shoes and I can't imagine.

But maybe I am.

The missing limb, and you know, I can't even put myself in your shoes, like I don't even know. I don't know how you did it. I don't know how you are here like I.

We settled into the cafe, but for more privacy, we decided to head back outside to a quiet bench overlooking water, so.

I'm in a better spot. More questions do you have first? I mean, I'm sure you've been pondering what I think.

What I would like to know first is I briefly met your mom. Okay, yeah, I'd like to whatever you want to tell me about your mom.

And well, my mom stayed here in campus with her mom and was tossed between her dad, who lived in California, where I was born and raised.

She wasn't an educated woman.

She was a very energetic, positive, adventurous walked her own path, but because of her own education, she had to do certain things to get by life. I mean back in the day, she supposedly had married a truck driver just as big as your father, but he was from Arkansas and they got divorced. So my mom had me, and she wasn't around a lot in my life because she was on her own little journey and was scared of the family who raised you. My dad's mom, my mom's step mom, and my mom's dad.

Why my dad worked all the time.

What did he do?

My dad was a regional manager for an auditing company and.

They got divorced. Dad got custody.

Mom wasn't around, and she traveled the United States and liked to do her own thing. Everybody loved her. She wasn't a drunk, She wasn't an alcoholic or drug addict.

She uah.

This is the stuff. The media don't know what I'm about to tell you. No one knows this. I haven't told anybody because they ask, but they don't. It's all been about unfortunately, it's been about you and your father. When these people tell me what they're promising me right, I was under the influence that I'm supposed to help people, but the little thirty second segments aren't long enough to help people.

One of the things Don wanted to clarify that he believes the media got absolutely wrong was his mother, Julie's relationship with Keith. As we know, Keith broke his rules for Julie. It was the first time he'd killed someone he dated and really knew In fact, when Keith introduced Julie to Melissa or talked to Melissa about her, he'd referred to Julie as his fiance. But Don takes issue with this.

My mom was living in Utah.

I talked to her on February eleventh, because her birthday was February twelfth, the mine was February twentieth. There was no talk of your father. My mom was not in a relationship. She was living with a girlfriend and a kid. She was telling me that she was on her way down here to Camus to visit with their mom. She had met your father in nineteen ninety two prior, and she knew how to work the truck stops because she drove truck and did her thing, and he offered her

You can hear in Don's voice how angry he is about the idea that Keith and his mother were ever together. There is also a pain that comes from the constant reminders of his mother. Everywhere he goes, he visits places she frequented, and he drives past the scene of her murder on a daily basis.

Every day up my life since then, I tryed. I have to try buy it every day I can. Fishing in the beautiful.

Corse, I gotta drive right by it.

I didn't run. I faced it head on.

I kept crushing my heart.

The long haul trucker told a Clark County Sheriff's Office detective by phone that he strangled Julianne Winningham, forty one, while raping her in the sleeper car of his rig after gagging her with duct tape. Winningham's nude body was found March eleventh, dumped down a bank of a viewpoint along Highway fourteen in the Columbia River gor four miles east of Wasshugel.

The scenery wasn't the only reminder of his mother's murder, so was his name. After his mom's death, Don changed his name to Leroy. It's actually part of why he was so difficult for me to track down. I had to go through Leroy to get to Don. We asked him a little bit about why he chose that name.

I was living in San Diego, working at a car wash, had friends in bands, and just living a fun life. I was looking pot doing drugs. I was up for three days. When I got the phone call at work, I went ballistic. I pulled off kitchen sinks, punched the wood. Then I walked home and I fell in the middle of the main street and cried. So this is where Leroy comes into play. I came up here for the trials. I got a job telemarketing. They asked me if I

My family was not there for me. No one's ever asked me if I was okay.

I want to know what happily you found out. You came up here. Why did you have to go to the Morgue.

Well, the reason I had to go to the Morgue was because my mom wasn't around a lot in my life, and I had to physically see her that way to know that she's dead, or otherwise I would still think she's on a traveling around doing her thing because we didn't talk that often.

She wasn't around a lot.

I'm going back to how you had to see your mom.

I can't imagine.

You you saw her after what? Yeah, I don't even know what she looked like.

Yeah, I want to know.

I want to know, sir, because you have to see it.

I want to know what you saw.

All right, Well, I show up. It's underneath the jail. It's really like the movies.

Long long, long, long, long long long. They open up a room, white walls, silver table. My mom has a sheet covered up to her neck. I see from her face a mark from here to here. That's why, as black as day's night, I see shrub marks on her cheeks from where she rolled down through the berry briars.

I also see.

The top of my mom's head, just sitting on top of her head because they did the aptosy on her brain, so it was just.

There.

That's the last time I saw my mom.

What are you do with those images?

Mask them? They go away. She was such a beauty lady.

He stuck his fist down my mother's throat to make sure she was dead. Duck taped her, suffocated her, raped her, carried him around in the cap of his truck, drove up the mountain. She lost her like a fucking piece of garbage, and the next time I see her she's like that.

I truly can't explain the anger and ate I've had over the years towards this, but I've had. I had to put it past me. I had to because otherwise I'm not going to be happy, and I need to be happy.

I was wearing just my shoes and a shirt when I headed east. I knew she would wake up soon and then she'd really no terror. I breaked hard at a stop sign and heard her grunt. She tried to get into the front passenger seat, but fell to the floor and cut her forehead on the seat pedestal.

A little pool of blood formed.

I reached down and patted her on the back and said, nice of you to join me, Julie, and stay there until I stop up ahead, and then you'll find out what's going to happen to you.

Melissa and Don had been wrestling with the past for so long, trying to come to terms with its impact on their lives, and they were both eager to share their experiences.

I don't know what you know, I don't know much, but I don't know what you want to know.

The Feds everybody, they figured out what trucking company he worked for. And by the way, I see that trucking company every day on the road. So you can imagine my thoughts going through. You know, I see it too, Okay, and it's got to be hard for us. So they found out what trucking company he worked for. He was on a run. He was going to go pick up a load in New Mexico. Okay, okay, So they called Hani.

Did the blood.

Urine and something else sample for him? They have to bring it back here to test it. Before they get back, he calls and says he tried to kill.

Himself by eating a bottle of Thailand. All they go back, they arrest him, and the trials start.

Yeah, the detectives came up to Spokane and they questioned my mom and then they they didn't tell her anything. Then she said, uh to my brother or sister, and I that your dad's in jail. Then my brother's like for what it is, she said, for murder.

Just remember just feeling like this is this is not real?

He had.

I went to my uh my cot, laid down on him. Did I just cried the whole night. He had wondered who it was, what happened, how did it happen? And he had a picture A million different things in my head and I wanted answers. Nobody would just tell me. I just wanted to know. And that's why I started looking at the Orgonian and reading everything. And it was hard to read it, but in a way it was kind of a you know, a blessing in disguise, because I don't know if I could have handled hearing it

This bra.

Four pike A right, this is where it happened.

What is this?

This is the spot. It used to be an empty lot until two years ago.

I thought she was found on a roof.

Hold on, I'll show you if you stop right here. This was an empty lot, and his eighteen wheeler was parked right here.

Okay.

The bar he was at is just not even at the quarter of a mile up the road. My grandmother, my mom's mom, lived three blocks up the road.

So his truck was parked here. Okay, this is where he.

Did what he did to my mom right here in this lot.

With it was a parking.

Lot though, yeah, parking lot. You know, there was no store here, There was no nothing here. His truck is right here. My mom comes from the bar up the road. They talk about the money issue.

He what was the money issue?

What was she to me?

Explain that to me.

So basically, after listening to your father and saying how one of the victims asked him for money after he was already done with her, that reminded him of his wife and that's what made him snap. And I remember him saying this in one of his interviews. Well, my mom went to the bartender and he was too busy. My mom needed some money. Came to jessperson, your dad. My mom had gotten into a car accident. Your dad's signature was on the bill of sell, so my mom

My mom was working. Something happened.

She went to your father for money, asking him nicely because she wasn't a gold digger or anything, and he snapped.

Where we're going next is on Highway fourteen.

He drove six miles out on Highway fourteen, pulled over and threw her out without no rings or nothing, just stark ass naked, and then came back, got his trailer and drove off to New Mexico.

But your dad, your last freedom. Was your dad in this town for three weeks? Give her take.

Did your grandmother ever say that they were talking about getting married again.

My mom would have never got remarried. I know it for a fact.

That came up through your father. Cause my mom, as you can see, she was a very beautiful woman. She was a kind hearted, good soul. And that's why your dad, you.

Said, he broke every rule that he ever had set.

For victims, that he was going to do this too, right, My mom broke every rule because of her soul, her heart.

You know, he felt something different with her.

The truth when it comes to Keith is always in question. Weeks later, Melissa still had doubts about the nature of Julian Keith's relationship. Our producer Noel also made the trip to Washington State to meet Don.

This idea of Julie being his fiance kind of keeps coming up, and it's sort of like been called in the question a few different ways by her son. For example, he Don right off the bat said that's not true. But there's a lot of he said, she said stuff in all of these tales. You kind of were skeptical of that too.

The only thing that makes me not skeptical of them being together is the last time I saw my dad. The last time I saw my dad was at a diner, and he brought up that he was going to buy me a car, a red Pontiac, and that he was going to buy a house on the beach and that Julie and him would live there and that I could move in with him. And so the sense that he was putting this future with Julie makes me think that he saw something different in Julian, that he wanted to settle down and get married.

But do you remember what we discovered that that wasn't his dream, that was her dream. Don kind of talked about how this is something she always talked about wanting to.

Have her son back with her, living in the beautiful places out in California because my mom and him travel from Utah to hear and they knew each other prior, so he knew her dream.

So he was telling me your mom's dream. The last time I saw her.

Her last words to my dad or what about your kids? When she was pleading for her life. And I know she was trying to appeal to the man and not the monster. The fact that she was saying that makes me, you know, obviously, I know why she was pleading what about your children, you know, to try to ground them back into hey, you're a dad that.

But she was and this is again this is your father's version.

Yeah, we don't know what her lasts really were.

And in the Jackalsen book, your father claims that she was saying, hey, wait, you know what about your children? I was going to be basically their mother, And one of his final insults to her is do you think I would let you raise my kids? But she wasn't good enough. But again, it's this ongoing theme that you've pointed out that your dad has to degrade all of his victims in some way shape or form that they had it coming.

Absolutely. So the truth is I don't know. What we do know is that Julie was murdered by my dad. Her title of fiancee or girlfriend or friend is not relevant, really, I.

Think, I mean, I think it's relevant in that it's the one that he interacted with outside of just a killer victim relationship, at least as far as what we know.

Well, I know they were friends. I think that's what they were friends for years, and that's what I think haunts me more than the fiancee title, is that this was a multi year relationship, not one of his fleeting girlfriend situations or someone he barely knew. And if he could do that to her, he could do that to anybody.

From I the creation of a serial killer by Jack Olsen. I said, you don't love me, Julie, you never have. She sniffed and said, what about your children? I was going to look after your kids.

I laughed.

I said, you can't even look after yourself. How could I trust you with my kids? I was thinking, how do I keep running into these kind of women? All this time? She's staring at me with tears in her eyes. I removed the tape around her ankles, but I left the tape on her arms so she couldn't go after my eyes with her long fingernails.

Uh oh, I want to ask what you don't have to answer her phone?

Okay, what were your mom's last time words?

Was that said? No? Have you wondered that?

I've never thought about that for the simple fact of maybe that the fact that she was duct tape and suffocated and didn't have a last word. So I've never thought about what my mom's last thoughts or words were. In my head, she asked him for money and that made him snap, and that's how my mom ended up dead.

So that is my interpretation.

My mom said something yesterday when he tries to shame my mom by publishing their intimacy their sex life, and I said to my mom, I'm like, doesn't that make you feel victimized? You know, like that dad's doing this?

And she said, well, it's not true, and I thought, yeah, we only have his word for what happened because he was the only par there and the person who did that.

And so but I believe what he did to my mom is true because of the way his actions and his wording.

And now, after you telling me how your father is. That's why he was supposed to so specific in court.

Yeah, I mean, can you imagine my rage hearing this man say he stuck his fist down my mom's throat to make sure she was dead.

No, no.

Cammage, And then I left her in the back of my truck for eight to twelve hours before I disposed of her body.

So the autops had come from that.

I came up here on an airplane and I went to every bar across this whole city, all the way looking for your father. Didn't know who did it, because they didn't know at this time, because this was less than twenty four hours after finding my mom. I went on a every bar.

Who are you looking for?

What did you think you.

Were looking for?

Being one hundred percent real with you, I don't know. I like I said, I literally had been up for three days a day prior.

You're just going in hoping that you would just see somebody and they would you would know.

I'm assuming I can't answer that question because it's so long ago, you know what I mean. But I remember one night in the beginning, singing karaoke Pat Benatar singing, hit me with your best shot, like to the whole.

You know, hit me, Come on, bring it on.

You know what I mean. I'm facing this head on. You know what I mean. You think you got something for me? Bring it on, Bring it on, Bring it on.

Julie was found absolutely by chance, when a local resident stopped to take a scenic picture by the winding roadside where she'd been tossed, discovering her naked and beaten body.

Imagine, so here comes a twenty one mile keep going. Oh, I know it all. See that turnout right there?

Come not this one, the next one, because you got to think about it.

He has an eighteen wheeler truck, so he has.

That space to turn around right to go back and get his trailer. Yeah, and if he goes any farther, he's into this Comania County.

So he pulls over right now.

You got to understand, the hillside is twenty some years different than it is now.

So he pulls his truck over. This is where they found my mom's cigarette butts and stuff.

And so what he basically told me was after he did all that, he opened up the door and threw her down there like a rag doll, right down there.

And if you look let's.

Go out there.

Imagine these trees right here, not over twenty years ago, right, someone stopping to take a picture. He just happens to live up on the hill. He stops to take a picture, looks down this terrain.

And sees my mom.

So your dad pulled over right here, disposed of her.

That he would have had to get over this barrier.

Well, if you think about this, your dad's truck is an eighteen wheeler. Correct. Your dad is two hundred and fifty pounds at the time. He knows how to drive a truck. He can get this close enough, open the door. Your dad could throw one hundred pounds like it's nothing.

I'm sure tumbled down. Remember I told you the brush marks.

On her cheeks is from this.

It's from this.

So I came up here, I came kicking push, I came looking for anything.

I could find just out of sheer. I don't know what.

And this is really thick.

Yeah, like I said, twenty years yeah, this is built up.

It probably wasn't as high, you know what I mean, The toss wouldn't have been as far, and.

They would have never a founder. How would they have founder?

By the grace of God, that you were saying earlier doesn't exist. He made that man stop and take a picture, because no one ever stops here, No one, no.

Because there's not really a scenic view either with the river, because the trees are blocking the view.

To even take a picture like this wouldn't be where I would stop to take a picture. This isn't scenic at all.

So what made that person stop to take a picture? Who lives right up here every day?

That is strange that they would just come down here and take a picture. If they live here and see this view every.

Day, Why did that happen? That's one of the questions. They had nothing to do with it. They didn't help your dad or any e both. Why did the universe tell that person to stop right here? Because it was time for it to stop. He needed to be stopped.

And if your mom, if your mom's body wasn't found, he.

Would still be out there today.

Hro cre.

Gay was so vaults in our just secrets combinations.

Now we can't check out our hearts.

Talk them tie it in to.

Time.

Happy Face is a production of How Stuff Works.

Executive producers are Melissa Moore, Lauren Bride Pacheco, Mangesha Ticketdour and Will Pearson. Supervising producer is Noel Brown. Music by Claire Campbell, Paige Campbell and Hope for a Golden Summer. Story editor is Matt Riddle. Audio editing by Chandler Mays and Noel Brown. Assistant editor is Taylor Chicoigne. Special thanks to Phil Stanford, the publishers of the Oregonian Newspaper, and the Carlisle Family.

Airo Criosh

Guys Votillutious