Hi I'm Scott Hanselman, this is another episode of Hansel Minutes. Today I'm chatting with Anthony Eden, the creator and founder of DN Simple. Is it DN Simple or DNS Simple? It is DN Simple. I've heard people say in all kinds of ways and I'm happy to have them as customers regardless of how they say the name. I feel like when you started it, the first thing you would have done would have been to register not just DN Simple but also DNS Simple with the
extra S and then redirect it to canonicalize your own URL. Yeah, we would have loved to have registered it from day one, but in fact, somebody else already owned it. So we went through the process years later to actually buy DNS Simple.com from somebody who sold it to us. That is actually kind of awesome. It's always DNS. It's always DNS. So you've been on the web since the early mid 90s. You've been a web person since the web began and DNS is fundamentally at the
root of everything. We joke about how it's always DNS, but it always is. And back in the day, in the early 90s, I think when I registered Hanselmin.com, it was hard. You'd call network solutions and you'd have to fax people and talk to a human to get a domain name. How did you get into the business? How did you think 14, 15 years ago that DNS was something that needed to be solved
and that DN Simple could do it? It was pure chance. At the time, it was 98. So late 1998, I was living in France kind of failing at the work that I was doing, trying to build a CMS system for a school over there. And it wasn't really working out and decided to head back to the US. Got back to the US and was looking for work. And I received somebody, it basically a job offer from somebody who was looking for a Java programmer. But in order to take the job, I had to be able to
help him become accredited. This was back in 99. This was when the.com domain was basically deregulated. And so he said, I need your help. We have five days to do this. And I said, no problem. We can do this. I had to do the technical implementation. So in five days, I built a swing application where I could run Python scripts written in jython to control the communications and run through the test with verisign because it was network solution slash verisign already. At that
point, I believe. And it was completely ridiculous. It was such an overblown solution, but we managed to actually get accredited in that very short timeline. And he's like, this is awesome. You need to stay and work for me. Come be the CTO. And this was at a company called Signature Domains. And we were one of the first seven domain registrars during the deregulation in 1999.
Wow. So you ended up being the lead dev and the CTO. If you look at your LinkedIn, you've got a bunch of other things on it that do you are you stepping out of the DNS business and then back in? Yeah. All of these different holding companies for because there was a tree on LLC and different different organizations. So the timeline is not clear. That's correct. So I did the domain thing for quite a while in 2000. I can't remember exactly when I think. So we went through the bubble,
the bubble and the burst of the dot com bubble and burst. I then joined another company to work on health systems, so medical device systems, then came back to the domain space. Then I left that again, went and worked in a different part of the domain space. So I ended up going over to Hawaii. And I ran the Mariana specific islands top level domain for a few years. So the registry and
registrar for that, which is dot MP. So I did that for a little while. Then I went and worked for a DOD contracting company and I worked for Yahoo for a little bit and then so I was all over the place. And then I started doing my own consultancy and that's what HRON was. It was just me writing software and charging people for it. Worked for living social during the living social heydays as part of
the crew there writing Ruby, writing closure, doing all kinds of fun things there. All the while running DN symbols actually had the full time job in the beginning working for living social while I was running DN symbol. And then when DN symbol finally grew enough where it could sustain me, then I left that job and started working on DN symbol full time. And that was about, I'd say 2012,
2013. Okay, so check this out. This will be a funny way to transition. I'm looking at an email from my wife in June of 2011 and she has a screenshot of our credit card and she says there are 23 draws, meaning debits from these guys. $18 for $8.50 and $5 for $8.00. Who is DN symbol? That just shows you how long you were. I launched DN symbol in July of 2010 after having worked on it for three months. So the first line of code was written April 1, 2010 and it was launched
mid to late July 2010 and you were already on it and getting billed repeatedly by 2011. That's pretty cool. Yeah, so that means that I was probably, I don't know, not single digit customers, but first definitely the first couple of hundred people I was right there because it was simple. Yes, and this is not a, you know, I don't do sponsored shows. It's not a sponsored show, but I've known
you now, you know, as a fan of yours on the internet for 15 years. I had tried to you, I think we were all anti-go daddy at the point where they were about, there were just a lot of really crap places to keep your domains and it was incredibly tedious to simply add a record. And as we start moving towards the cloud years later, you want to add a text record, you want to add a URL redirecter,
everyone was complicated except DN symbol and that's why I was like, oh, I'm in. And I remember like the moving everything over in the, the collaborating and the consolidating and I'm looking at my account now and I have like 46, 41 registered domains and 47 zones. I got down from 50 because keep in mind that every domain that I've registered with you is a startup idea that I've failed to to ship. So there's also that. You are a living monument to my own failure.
Well, I'm also a living monument to my own failure as well for other types of startups because I've got I think 150 domains in my account. Any way that any point could be a thing. It could be, it could be huge. I've got, and then of course you have variants of that one name because just having the dot com isn't enough. So yeah, it's kind of funny. It's people collect domains and it's the graveyard of ideas, right? Like that is totally what happens to many of us, especially creative
types, software developers or designers or entrepreneurial types. It's just you build up this portfolio of domains, which funny enough is the reason that the very first business that I worked for that I stopped working for him because he left the registrar business because he had a domain portfolio of like 30,000 domains. And he and he said focused on his domain portfolio rather than
running a registrar. Oh my goodness. You know, I wonder I've got a bunch of, I have this one, I have a bunch of vanity domains that are like redirects to stuff like I have a YouTube channel called computer stuff. They didn't teach you. And people would keep telling me that I I didn't really register it there. And it turns out I have computer stuff. They didn't teach you with two
T's didn't and teach. And I also have the misspelling one with the single T. Right. I wonder sometimes if people over index on the misspelling and they think that it's going to be important to have every single variant. I wonder if like Microsoft has 20 different versions of. Oh, undoubtedly. Just in case somebody types it wrong. Undoubtedly. If I'd be surprised if Microsoft didn't own Microsoft were the O's were zeros. Oh, yeah. And there's the whole. And then the UTM code the
UTM versions of it. Turkish eyes, sterile. Yeah. Every possible version. There's someone in charge of that. That seems like a big problem with DNS in general. Well, I mean, when you think about it, it's the DNS system was designed in a time, a gentler time when people weren't so worried about other people doing bad things other than his jokes, right? I mean, we're talking about a protocol that was developed in the 80s. And the internet was the web still was just a gleam in someone's eye,
right? That wasn't even going to be a thing yet. Certain burners Lee, he probably did he may have been thinking about it then, but I'm not even sure. And it has with stood the test of time, but not without the pains along the way. And all kind and not just from the types of tax we're talking about where they have letter variations, but also the operational side of it. DNS has long been a vector of DDoS attack because everybody has to have it. It's a protocol that has to be underlined pretty
much everything. So it's one of those protocols that gets attacked pretty regularly in all kinds of different fun ways. I was thinking about Microsoft, who I work for Microsoft to my day job, so for disclosure, recently is starting to change all of their cloud stuff to dot Microsoft. They have dot Microsoft as a TLD, which is crazy at top level domain. And they are saying that that's more secure. So like whatever dot cloud dot Microsoft or cloud dot Microsoft, why is that the case? Why
do they believe that why is dot com not fine for everyone? Why do we need a dot ninja and a dot Microsoft? Well, I think dot Microsoft for the obvious brand reasons is quite interesting, but I think from the security perspective, they believe that they can run the name and control the registry and essentially for them, that means there's one less point that somebody can attack that is out
of their control because they can't control the dot com namespace. If somebody were to find a vector to attack it or any other one dot net, whatever it might be, they would be down just like everybody else, but at least in the case of dot Microsoft, they have more control over it. So that's probably why they're saying it's more secure. They also might be able to put rules in place starting at that top level domain requirements. For example, they did this, I think it was dot app.
So Google did this with dot app and dot dev. They basically turned on the HTST. I think it's HTS or HTS. Yeah, they turned that on by default and required everything to have to have secure connections. So that's an example of when owning the TLD gives you the ability to implement things you couldn't otherwise. Yeah, the HTS HTTP strict transport security. It's like a redirect before like once it's happened once, they don't even redirect you at the client level.
You can't HTTP your way anywhere anymore. That is a secure place from now on. It's a huge hassle when you're doing local host development and you get redirected over to an HTS. Yeah, so they've switched that to dot Microsoft. You all have dot com dot orgs. I have some dot IOs and some dot CEOs. Yep. I'm looking here at my 50 domains and I'm thinking about could I lose them? Could they be attacked? You know how people can steal your SIM cards? We hear about people swapping a phone
number out from underneath someone. When I register with you or with someone else, how do I know that that's going to be mine and that it can't be stolen? Because like Hanselman.com is my whole family, all my cousins and everyone's email going back 20 years. Yeah, so let's think about the ways that means since swapping funny, you should bring that up is one of the attack vectors for getting around two factor off with SMS. That's the reason why we don't offer two factor off with SMS.
While we offer instead with hardware keys or with the one time passwords, right? Because we're trying to make it so one, we give you the tools to protect yourself. And that's the starting point. The other thing is that you have to be with companies that you trust are not going to be socially engineered. Social engineering is probably the number one way that a lot of these take over attacks occur. Granted, there are other unique and fun ways which we've seen recently
that come out. But truthfully, if I'm going on a one off, if somebody were to attack one off on and they wanted your domain, particularly, most likely they tried to social engineer their way into it to try to prove their you. And so I think that being with companies that have pretty strict policies against taking action on your behalf is a good starting point for ensuring that your stuff remains safe. It's also just paying attention to it, making sure that it's being renewed
ideally automatically every year. And potentially if it really matters, renewing it for multiple years. Right? That's something that you could do as well. So there's a lot of ways to protect it. It's really comes down to one personal security and to trust in the security of the entity that you're buying and managing your domains there. When you when you created this, there were a number of like there are still a number of like small boutique DNS companies that are
well known. What makes those boutique entities that are not, you know, Google domains or GoDaddy like competitive for for Dan simple, like you had an API, you had a very thoughtful UI, like it was really easy for it. I felt like it was a developers. It was. Yes. You got it. It's exactly what it was for. And I think that for some of the other ones, price is going to be something that's competitive. Look, a lot of people still undervalue the importance of their domains.
You'll see it time and time again. They go through a shady registrar or a company that's not really innovating at all. The domain then gets lost because they can't even access it. They, you know, the person who manages it goes away. And they're with a company where one person had access because that service didn't offer the ability for multiple people to have access. That's pretty common. And so I think people get attracted by low prices or things like that. Or legacy. They're just like,
I've always bought my thing, my domain through this company. I will continue buying it through this company. So legacy has a big part of it as well. I kind of think you have to keep evolving and keep looking and seeing who out there is actually continuing to make progress on the protection and the operations of domains and DNS. And a lot of the small ones won't. They're pretty happy where they're at. And that's okay. They're going to move really slowly. The big ones will initially,
but then they also will they have a lot of different business models. So one of the things we try to do is get in that sweet spot right there in the middle where we could continue innovating. But at the same time, we weren't spreading out and trying to do lots of different things and thus running out of resources to stay focused on domains and DNS, which any company that so Dean Simple has
always been funded by bootstrapping. So we've never taken outside funds. And a company like that has the opportunity to do what we've done, which is stay the course and focus on one thing and do that one thing well. Whereas if you're VC funded and you grow or you become, you know, you go to public trading, like the expectation is you will continue to grow and you can only do that by adding
on more products. And so that's where we see sort of that separation. Yeah, if I look at some, I won't say their names, but if I look some some obvious cheaper domain type places, now it's hosting an email and work marketing security and it's like they don't do just DNS. But at the same time, you make the point that people are kind of devaluing DNS and they're like, I just want to park this thing for a dollar. Yeah, they don't just hold on to this for me and I'll give you a
buck. And that kind of devalues what's going on behind the scenes. There's seem if you look at the blog.dnsimple.com. Your team is very technical and they're always following the way that the industry is moving for whether it be null MX records or whatever that are making DNS more secure and more safe. I hate to see people that that's raised towards the cost bottom. It's the word that we hear is it's a commodity. That's how they think of it. They see DNS as a
commodity, which is interesting. It's not been helped by the big players commoditizing it. That's fine, but that's fair. We can play that game too. We just have to figure out a way to stay lean so that we can play that game at the same time and yet continue innovating and doing things that. But again, if we stay focused, we can do that. It's through focus that we're able to innovate. And it's not necessarily by being the biggest or the fastest growing company. It's more about
being the most focused company. Hey, friends, and the interest of me learning more about AI and helping you learn more about AI. For the next couple of episodes, we're going to have Landerd Fendorn from Qualcomm. Help me understand AI. What is an NPU and why is it important today? So the NPU stands for Neural Processing Inits and it's basically your AI accelerator.
And so it can execute AI operations, these large language models or also to different generative AI models in a much more efficient way than a CPU or a GPU can't. So just to give you an example with Microsoft's recall, you run that continuously in the background. Running it on an NPU takes about 30 minutes of overall life battery lifetime. If you were to run it on a GPU, it would take six and a half hours. Right. So it's all about energy efficiency,
very specifically dedicated to a single task, which is AI. Very cool. So I'm going to go learn more about NPUs and how they can do things more cheaply from a battery perspective, more efficiently, and why I might want a Snapdragon processor in my next PC. Exactly. Thank you. And folks can check out more at Qualcomm.com slash developer to download those things and learn
more today. Now you've got this thing called the domain control plane and maybe I'm conflating these things and you can explain it to me, but when I go to the dashboard, it says 41 registered domains. But then next to it, it says 47 DNS zones. Does that mean that I don't have all of my domains with you or am I conflating those two things? It might be that you have a domain registered somewhere else and pointing at us. It might be that you have a name in there that's not even registered and never
was. It's possible. The domain control plane, the idea behind it really was that we'd love it if everybody used the insombo all the time, but that's not a reality. The reality is some people are going to mix the insombo with route 53 or Azure DNS or different providers, maybe even on premise DNS like core DNS. And so what we did with the domain control plane was build away to connect into those
other systems. So from within the insombo, I connect to Azure's DNS and I can actually manage in a bidirectional fashion zones that are at Azure or at the insombo side by side and I can move them back and forth. And so that the idea was an acceptance that a multi-platform world is the reality. Like we're in a multi-cloud world. That is the way it works. And we'd rather adopt a system or create a system that allows us to work in that space rather than trying to force people
because we're too small to force people to do anything. That's the reality of it, right? So let's just make it so that it's easy. And our goal is always to make DNS and domain management easier. So if somebody can do all that through the UI or the API, it's simple and they have that single interface, that's pretty powerful, we think. So this is kind of the, this is early, it's still nascent, we created it within the last year and a half and we've been testing it out,
but it still has a long way to go, I think. But that's the principle behind it. Now you've got a really great website called howdns.works. So I would encourage folks to check that out. I think that it is one of the little gems of the internet that people should spend some time on. It's the little website that could howdns.works. But in the interest of maybe understanding a little bit more about DNS, I think that the average developer gets the idea that they go to a registrar
and they register domain. And then their home network, they may be put in one.1.1.1 or 8.8.8.8. And they've got these very simple IPv4s that they've memorized. Can you explain the relationship between me putting in one.1.1 or whatever and what you're doing and how Google or CloudFlair and my own network interact and when they eventually show up at dns.com and how that interaction works? Sure, sure. So we do the authoritative DNS side of it. So that is we hold the zone information
for a domain that's with us. And ultimately the answer to the questions lies with us. But those questions first go through a series of other servers. 1.1.1 or 8.8.8.8. And there are several of these that have been run over the years are resolving networks. So
they're resolvers. The resolvers are essentially the first place that you go to ask the question closer to you because the idea is if we cache a bunch of these requests closer to you, then you don't have to go back every time to the authoritative name server to ask that same question. There's also an onboard cache on pretty much every computer that is also great, but the time that it will hold that response is shorter and shorter is the closer it gets to you.
So the farther way it gets to you, the longer it might hold that response in memory. So the idea is that you make a request and how dns.org says a great way to see all this in the comic version of it, but you make a request that goes to the resolvers say an 8.8.8.8 or 1.1.1.1.1. That resolver in turn starts trying to figure out where is this domain. Does it have something in cache that it can start the answer. So and if it doesn't, it would have to go say first, let's pull
this part. I'm going to go to the root name servers. And it's like, do you have, say, scothanslman.com. And the root name server says no, but I have dot I can tell you who has dot com. So then that gets delegated to the dot com name servers, which are run by a whole bunch of companies. Then the resolvers says, hey, dot com name servers, you have scothanslman.com. And it says no, but I can tell you who does have scothanslman.com. Then it might go to our name servers. And our name
servers finally say, yes, we do. And it responds back. The resolver then caches that information that it's gathered along the way, returns it to you. And then you ask again, and it's like, you're already know, don't need to go again. So that's one of the performance enhancements that makes DNS continue to scale even as the internet just grows and grows and grows and we have more and more traffic. Now, this might sound like I'm a fanboy, but certainly I've been a customer for a very,
very long time. So if I am indirectly a fanboy, but in the early days, 10, 15 years ago, one of the reasons that I stuck with the Ensimple was I would constantly have to make a C name or a subdomain change or add a text record. And I would watch people like live coding on Twitch or live coding on YouTube, try to put a website up live on stage. And they would update a C name and go to Adi or something. And then they go, we're going to wait about 12 to 15 minutes for the DNS
to propagate. And the demo would never work. You know what I mean? But for some reason on Dan Simple, I would go and make example app.hanselman.com. And I'd hit refresh or even now when I do a a Let's Encrypt certificate and I add a text record and then I go back to Let's Encrypt at the command line and it says, Oh, I see it. Is that some herbs and spices that you're doing because you always seem to be fast on picking that stuff up while I'm constantly waiting for for other
domain providers to, to, I don't know, clear the caches, do whatever they need to do. Yeah, that's part of that's part of what's I think what works well at Dan Simple and what makes that piece work really well is that we instead of using the protocols that you have in the DNS space to synchronize between different servers, we use our own internal system and that internal system
has been built up over the years to be pretty fast. And essentially the goal is how fast can we get changes to our edge because our networks not just one server or one set of servers in one location are authoritative network had right now we have eight points of presence around the world. So we have to get that data out to all of them. The furthest one, which is kind of our bar that we set for has to go to Australia and has to go from our data, our primary data center in the US over
to Australia. So we've worked hard to make that caching mechanism really fat like that transfer mechanism work really fast. And I think we all one of the things that we also did is that we took a lot of time to measure that and constantly measure it and make sure that it was continuing to work. There were times where it didn't it worked up to a point and you know how it is with scaling right you start scaling something that works to a point and then it kind of just starts to
slow down and bog down and it doesn't work as well. You need to do some redesigns we've gone through several of those over the years to redesign our infrastructure and architecture for how we move data around. So yeah that's that's part of what we do. I think it's also our willingness to set default
TTL values that are fairly low. A lot of original like if you go to let's say you go to your registrar they might default you into a TTL of a day right and if some if a cat we talked about this caching name server the TTL is the time to live. So if that caching name server has that and it has a very long time to live it's not going to clear itself it's going to like let that thing run down and
you're going to get that old record if you're doing an update. So yeah there's a few little things that we did that we set up and then there's a few big things that we did over the years to make it work fast and all that work together to make it so you can do that type of thing and you can know
that the record is going to be deployed real fast. Yeah yeah as a customer who is constantly tweaking making changes adding text records messing around particularly in development I can I can attest to the fact that I don't like that thing where I make a change in my code I I push it into get I
wait for my CI CD those are all very fast all this happens fast and then I go to my DNS and I update a record and I sit around like I don't have that experience with the ensemble and I've always appreciated because when I said at the beginning it was a developer's DNS that feels like
that I've constantly seen people with other domain registrars wait and fight and hit refresh and IP config slash flush and reboot their right just anything they could do to get whatever's stuck unstuck which brings me to my next question I as a web developer feel like at you know when you
think about the layer the seven layers of networks I understand HTTP I could write I could I used to true story I used to tell net to port 80 and simulate HTTP gets to show people how you can browse the web at port 80 as a way of showing students in my in my university classes when I was a professor
how to drive stick shift I can't do that at the DNS level but I guess I bet you probably could like do a wire shark and you know DNS at that level you know I mean like the way I know HTTP you know DNS yeah I mean that I like you I also used to tell net to port 80 and HTTP servers to show out work
that kind of nerd the good old days I also have written three DNS servers I wrote one in pearl I wrote one in Java and I wrote one in Erlang which is what we currently operate so I wrote the core of what our name server infrastructure run on granted other developers have added their
their energy to it as well but I spent a lot of time trying to understand the protocol really deeply and that's the cool thing about it like that's to me it's it's always been fascinating because the protocol itself is massive but it's it's broken up in all these little chunks because it's
evolved over time so you can pick a piece out of that and read an rfc which is out there in the public is forever and you can understand how that little bit of the protocol works um granted there are some pieces of the protocol that are not so easy to understand but the the fundamental protocol
is just so elegant and beautiful I think again that that's a it's a testament to why it is survived for so long is that it is so elegant at its core and so I've always been fascinated by it I've done a lot of talks over the years on on UDP and for DNS and even things specifically about
how Erlang is really good at taking packets and breaking them apart into their little bits it's because it has a particular part of the language which are called bit strings which are perfect for mapping DNS packets it's like they were made to go together peanut butter and jelly uh so yeah
I I love it and I've spent a lot of time doing that and a lot of time writing tools that query DNS and try to understand what's going on and yeah it's just a lot of fun it's I mean I'm a nerd at heart I'm even though I run the company now I still love but I wish I could be writing code more often
is what it is what it comes down to alas a more important things for me to do the yeah I think I'm not sure what SAP still runs on Erlang but early on they were on Erlang and it seems to be a great back end uh language and environment for doing doing stuff as fast as
possible at scale chopping bits up and getting them out you know boom boom boom boom boom I mean it was designed for for telephone switches right so it was defined designed to work in an environment that needed to be uh reliable but also could break so the the whole principle behind it is like allow
it to fail fast and then recover well and that's actually part of what the in simple's infrastructure is designed as well rather than trying for this um you know this massive redundancy granted we have plenty of redundancy but if a system fails it's designed to go down hard and then come back up
well and clean and and Erlang as a language and more specifically OTP as a framework was designed to do that and and like because of where it was running because it was running in telephone switches and you didn't have the opportunity to go out there and like try to go fix something it
needed to come down and then restart clean yeah yeah that term Erlang was a unit of telecommunications traffic so it makes sense that it would be great at doing something like like DNS and then OTP Erlang slash OTP what is the OTP stand for it you know so I always thought it was open telecom
protocol but or something like that but actually somebody told me the other day that I was just flat out wrong uh and now I'm gonna have to go look up on my own again because they say it's open telecom platform but like somebody said the other day that that wasn't the case so now I'm wondering
if there's if I've been bamboozled or if there is a deeper story here uh I think it's one of those things like you know where it meant something once and now it's oh it's become bigger than it is and now Erlang is certainly not just for telecom systems although it's ironic that it's doing both DNS in this case and then WhatsApp as well it's perfect for that kind of that kind of work yeah it's it is really neat it's so I've written in lots of different languages I've written in everything from
Java Python to Ruby to Pearl to PHP to like just all over the board uh uh go rust closure my favorite language still is Erlang because it's not like anything else it's it's pattern matching in the language itself is so beautiful it's just and granted it's based on prologue so I'm I'd have
never written a line of prologue in my life but I probably should go back and check because I bet that prologue is can be is just as beautiful for certain things so let me ask you this last question and uh I mean it as a hundred percent of a compliment although some people might not think about
that way but I've always thought of DN simple as the best kind of boutique tech company you've been running it now for 15 plus years you've been thinking about this stuff for 20 years but I've never seen you try to get acquired or become bigger than necessary a boutique is like we make high
quality bespoke leather goods out of a nice little place in Florida and you know come come and visit us and you'll meet like some little old tailor you're the you're the old tailor in this in this case you're the guy with the you're the guy with the uh uh the the measuring tape around his neck
who wants to go and measure your inseam and make sure you get the perfect bespoke suit um is that the the the the the future is at the plan or is there some get bought by giant billionaire company and then you go off to an island somewhere I for the foreseeable future I'm totally happy to keep
running DN simple as it is I like running it as a boutique service I like knowing the people that use our service I've really truly like meeting customers like go out and I will meet a person and that person says I use the inseam when it makes me happy and that is a joy for me you know
is there a price sure there's always a price right but I'm in no hurry I'm still I can stand myself a young man I'm still under 50 here I've got a lot of years ahead of me as I am now 50 you have just paid me a incredibly old man out who sorry not not incredibly old you're just
towing over the line no I I love what I do and I'd be happy to keep doing this for quite a long time I as long as we can continue to make our customers happy do things that are innovative and continued operate it the way we we want to operate it I am totally happy continue to do this I I love this
business it's so fascinating uh and and look it's got 40 years of history and so that gives you a lot of room to play in and a lot of space to learn in and and to me that's a fun thing very cool well thank you so much for chatting with me today again not a sponsored show just talking
to my buddy Anthony but I do recommend personally and I have for years you can find my tweets going back 15 years DN simple whether it be one domain or a hundred thousand domains also fantastic SSL certificate management now makes it super super easy to not have to think about your domains
thanks for for chatting with me today I appreciate it thanks for having me on scott I appreciate it as well we've been talking with Anthony Eden founder of DN simple and this has been another episode of Hanselman it said we'll see you again next week