Hanging with Humans Podcast | Episode 16 | Bakhtiar Talash

So we headed to Russia and living in Russia for two years and I was kid and then my father moved back to Afghanistan after completing his PhD but he was a professor at the university , so but there was issues like that causes us to move out of Afghanistan . And then we had to head back to Pakistan and we were immigrants in Pakistan for nine years .

That's where I been to elementary school and a portion of my middle school I completed in Pakistan , mostly in the north northwest provinces of Pakistan , which is a disputed territory between Afghanistan and Pakistan .

Um , so for context , uh , on how we met um , I'm in sacramento , I was gonna go to modesto , I just flew in from lax , um , but I'm on my kind of work , traveling , uh , tour for the podcast and I'm just trying to meet people along the way , people that I believe have interesting stories that can make an impact in other people's lives .

And the short conversation we had in our Uber or Lyft , it was funny . When I showed up to jump in your car , you were like hold on my phone , it's rebooting because he was doing an update . So we had to like hang out in the car for a little bit and chill . So it's very nice to meet you .

Uh , like like there to like have generationally families that have like gone to school , got the ? You know you have two master degrees , don't you ?

He is living in Australia and Sydney , and my another brother , he has a master's degree from India , and my other brother , he is right now studying civil engineering in UK hey , it's a family of geniuses .

But whatever I am today and whatever our family is today , all of my siblings , my brothers , sisters it's all because of the hard push by my father and I've been through very hard situations in my life but it's because my father trained me as hard so I be a very resilient human yes .

I , I love my mother too , but you know , yeah , you learn what you learn from who you learn from that's awesome , he sounds like a very strong man .

Right now my brother is in Afghanistan one of my brother and we are kind of trying to take him out of Afghanistan because of the situation , because in our family everyone is out . And that's causing some doubts that he might be in risk . So , yeah , that's the hard , and we are all together to you know , help him .

So I was telling my sister , used to tell my dad that what we do because I'm interested to go to college and she my father says like yeah , you will go to college in Afghanistan . And we were kind of amazed . Like you know , we spent nine years in pakistan , but how would she go to college in a terrible country controlled by talibans at the time ?

But my father's predictions and his thoughts were very keen . And when the 9-11 happened , like , uh , right after we headed back to our home country and started living and I finished my seventh grade in Pakistan and then continued with my higher education in high school in Afghanistan .

And then , right after finishing my high school , I headed to the university and studied law and politics and then I had , during the law school , I had the opportunity to represent my country and the international law moot court competitions that I told you , jessup .

Yeah , so I represented Afghanistan in 2010 and that was the first time I would say that my life got a new shape to be connected with the uh , let's call with the western world . And then , up on my graduation , I had very good colleagues that I named them them .

They were not only my instructors but good friends who instructed me and guided me to work with them . And then I started working for the US Department of State , for the INL , and then , throughout I was single at the time got married .

Now I have two beautiful kids and my beautiful wife , and upon completing my bachelor and having a job , I started studying , never stopped .

That's pretty much about my educational life , that's amazing man and I and we didn't talk about the united states . But but when I came to the United States because of my anti-corruption studies , I was looking around what to do .

So I did study a little bit and I got the membership of the Association of Certified Financial Crime Specialists and did around 21 units with them . I was their member until 2023 . And well , it's where the market pushes you . I did a boot camp on software development and then had an opportunity to work with the world's biggest companies .

When we were heading to the United States , right before I had a plan and I said like , because the legal systems are different , so neither me nor her will be able to work as a lawyer or attorney here in the United States .

But there was this opportunity in the tech industry where there is demand , and that's why I encouraged her one year before our move to the United States . And now she's doing pretty well , completed her college and now she's on her second semester .

You were talking about your , your master's degree program and how it was a merit-based um invite through scholarship . How is it ? How , how do you feel about the fact that it was something like ?

You got this opportunity because of , surely , your hard work and your , your brain , your determination over the fact that you know there are a lot of programs that not give these , but you know these scholarships go to , whether it's a certain type of ethnicity or or other , whatever guidelines there are . Um , that's got to feel good to to know that .

You know you battled through everybody and you made it through the top yeah , yeah , yeah .

And I , I never thought and I'm not not thinking that , you know , I'm an intelligent guy , or you know but , I've been through the , the interview and I have to write some statements and stuff , and the scholarship was actually globally merit-based and it was not like we had scholarships back in Afghanistan like Fulbright or Chevening , or we had PPP they call it

public-private partnership held by the US Embassy in Kabul , so they were particularly for Afghans . Yeah , yeah , yeah , embassy in Kabul , so they were particularly for Afghans yeah , and the program I got into was not particularly for , you know , afghans , it was globally , yeah , competitive scholarship . I'm glad I made it .

Yeah , and I mean no one knows its potential as

long as someone else measures it . Whenever I meet people and I talk to them about what I did and what I am doing , they tell me that you must be very intelligent , maybe smart , and you know , I don't see myself to be very smart , very intelligent . But one thing that I know I have a potential . I'm giving an example . I used to work On our way .

We had this discussion of you know people will say he's good for nothing in my office One thing that I realized and I disclosed that to my supervisor at the time and I told her that you give me the task and I complete those tasks very fast .

But I just want to let you know that you know you , throughout the five years of the project , you didn't explore and extract two percent of my energy . And and she was surprised and she said , like why did you tell me at the end of the project ? And I said you never asked me . So I have the potential .

I mean now , whatever I want to do , give it , try , put hard work into it in turns . I mean , right now I'm into green vehicle technology . I'm studying green vehicles at American River College and some of my friends . They told me , like man , you should be teaching , you should be working in an office . What are you doing ?

Like you know , I love cars and that's why I got into like . I see it from the business perspective as well California green future business as well , but I'm into it and I like I learn it . It's fun .

I've been teaching law for seven years and I never go to a university to ask them , like you know , how much is my salary ? and stuff and I would do it as long as it exists . It doesn't matter if someone pays me or not .

But the other part of my life is , you know , my financial stability as well as an immigrant , because when you destabilize and move , you have to build things from scratch . And I think , whatever I'm studying right now , one is my interest and , as I said , I love cars .

I want to play around with them and beside that , I see the financial opportunity as a business as well . So you know you can play around with the things that you love , but definitely I will be .

I will once I set up the business and you know it will take five , ten years and then I'll go back and do my PhD and maybe start teaching at one of the universities for free haha , there you go .

Uh , you got your bachelor's uh , yeah , so I .

And my brother , he married to someone he knew and you know they got engaged and married each other . For me it was different . I was busy with my studies and my life and I didn't have an opportunity to look around .

And when my younger brother , who lives now in Sydney , he got engaged and my mother's attention was on me , like look at your younger brother , he got engaged and you are like single right now . Do you know anyone ?

Because we are , while we are , traditional community in society , but our family , they , they do respect , like you know , if you like someone yes , that's good then I told her , like I don't know anyone and I have , I have no idea then my mother she was I mean in contact with she was , since she was teaching in school .

She got connected and found my wife yeah and yeah that's . She showed her picture to me and told me about their family and yeah and yeah , and the one word , the word that I had to my mother , it's like you know , I'll make sure to keep her happy as long as she is also , you know , part of our big family taking care of you people .

I'm not saying that we don't argue . We have conflict of interest sometimes , of course . Yeah , but even with that conflict of interest , we come together with the one shared and common goal to live together and , you know , proceed with the good days we had and the hard days we have right now . There is turbulence all the time there . Yeah , it's right now .

I feel I'm one of the luckiest having her . Yeah , I have beautiful , beautiful kids , yeah , and I think , um , they will one day be serving this nation , in this country , in the interest of this , this country , and I'm proud of them . They are my daughter . She is a proud girl , I love her . And my son he's a very intelligent and talented boy .

I'll be a US citizen in a couple of months and I mean the oath we take . It's going to be the oath , yeah .

Or maybe I didn't have the the time one thing that I realized that you should have the skill to connect with people and communicate . I don't know , maybe I didn't have the skill to . You know , I think I still like a shy guy when it comes to I'm very social , but I think I'm still a shy guy when it comes to connecting

with ladies yeah , I mean so I think that was the reason . With no chance , but once I'm connected to people , like you know , they found , they will find . Like you , I'm a very socialized guy , uh , yeah first interactions are kind of tough for people , yeah , yeah um , so that's good to hear .

I've visited these countries in the United States .

He , I didn't say you guys know , the first time I flew in a airplane airplane was in 2010 really while I was heading to united states and I was super excited to be on an airplane I couldn't even imagine that man for the first time ever , going over there yeah uh , from like tv and movies and everything and what you hear about the united states .

I mean , for me it wasn't different because I lived my life while I was a child in Russia , so it wasn't very different in terms of the traditions and culture and religion wasn't very different in terms of the traditions and culture and religion . But to a lot of my colleagues who traveled with me at the time it was very different .

Yeah , true , and this is one of the one of the challenges I think the Afghan community or the Islam Islamic traditional communities have in here in the United States that prevents them from being connected to , to other people . You know , they think they are treated differently , while I think they are not . Yeah , but they should .

They should break , break those boundaries and start connecting with , with the real world . Yeah , you know , if you look at every community here in in the US , for instance , the Afghan community , indian communities , ukrainians , or you look at others , they're all kind of strictly within the boundaries of their own communities .

They less communicate with other people , so that even causes kind of a misperception and understanding that you know , maybe these immigrants are kind of wild , they are not used to our traditions and environment and our communities .

While I think that there should be an interaction , you know , know , in terms of those who were emigrated to this country 100 years ago , yeah , or maybe I call it the Americans .

Yeah , they should get in touch with these people , learn from them , or let the immigrants learn from the culture , from the society , from the food and the way they look at the world . I mean , that's important .

And the second thing I see is the language barrier . So when they communicate , they think I can't talk , you know . But what ? One thing that I realize is that as long as you can carry few words to tell someone something , and if they are interested , they will listen to you .

Never mind they will , they will connect with you regardless of your language capabilities . Yes , but yeah , these are the two things that I think are currently preventing most of the communities that maybe if I connect with an american while I'm an immigrant , they will see me differently because of my . That's what we define before connecting .

You know , what I would say is that every community you know , I'm not saying about the Afghan community every community should , you know , start engaging .

I've never seen there might be some people that they are not interesting to hear about us , yeah , but most of them will , you know , and particularly if you are well educated , you know your boundaries , you know we should , we should yeah , no , absolutely .

Right when we came back to the us , my dad never spoke it to us so we never , you know , kept it , uh , but when we went there , even though we'd speak four or five words to someone , they still were so happy that we were there , you know , like , because we only got to visit once every year or whatever , so even if we could barely understand each other , it

was enough to like , feel at home , you know and and I think , uh , there could be like , maybe , programs like when people come over , like like , because I see a lot of thing when it comes to immigration where nobody can name the founding fathers and all that stuff , like , right , you should be able to like pass a test or something um .

Where they can , you know , solely think of a clear integration within the us community . And that's what I see is like if we are heading to college , right , so you will see two , three afghans sitting together and away from the others , you know , and what I see , like tell them like you go to school or you are connected somewhere .

You know you are in a coffee shop , talk to people yeah you know , let them know about you . Uh , talk to them , you know , let them know that they . One thing that I know like the United States , immigrants are the sole portion of the United States right now , regardless of the politics will ignore it or will accept it .

The people they have to come together and do things together . Absolutely , they should integrate . And , paul , I mean in terms of these nonprofit organizations they should integrate . And nepal , I mean in terms of these non-profit organizations .

They should also have some programs where it starts very small , like if , if I was leading any of those organizations , I will , it would have been very important for the state as well . I will just make uh , what they do right now is that , you know , know , for Afghans , they make a ceremony or a festival where all Afghans come together .

Yeah , yeah , like , make a festival . They don't have that . Make a festival where Americans who lived here will come together with immigrants and let them talk about their self , you know . Let them engage , let them share their ideas . You know . Know neighbors to neighbor . That will give them more understanding of these immigrants .

Should you be scared of them in the coming 20 years ? Should you be scared of their kids in coming 10 years ? You know , I've seen people . They live in our neighborhood and they don't know me right , yeah . I have one neighbor who have been to Afghanistan .

He was in Kandahar , yeah , and he would say like in pashto to me , like hey , sangay , how are you doing ?

and stuff and he's connected because he has an understanding of an afghan who he lived with back in afghanistan and he knows that these people they are , that you can trust them and you can live your life , you can integrate , you can communicate , but those they don't know they might be scared of .

Like , okay , even if I sit in an uber , if I see this guy having a beard and a little bit brownish color , yeah , like , let's not talk to him I don't know my whole life .

So , since we're like on that subject , I remember we were walking here and we brought up the question about you're asking me , if you want to ask it again , why the Americans are dealing with the PTSD and the depression the way that they do , when somebody like yourself was kind of brought up in it and you know you seem to be doing very sound mentally .

You know what I mean To an extent , to an extent , yeah , yeah . So what was the question exactly ?

and and shooting , and you know the bombings and everything , and even we were higher targets , you know , because you would just walk home and if they realized they would kill us right away but there was not that depression exists at the time , and I mean you don't have time to be depressed when your life is on the line at all times .

so my was like why are you ?

And , as I told you , I've seen a lot of documentaries and stuff where the US military and army forces , they were badly depressed while being in c ombat zones in Iraq or Afghanistan , while being in combat zones in Iraq or Afghanistan , and I said like is there any way we , as Afghans who lived their whole life in combat zone , would be able to help RJ and such

as you ?

It's like so we're so babied we have everything . You sign up to go do something . You don't know exactly what . That is right . Like we don't have to wake up to rockets every day . So it's not like ingrained in us to be afraid of things like that .

So when you go out there after this life , you know whether it's a good life or a bad life that you lived before you go off and deploy . It's still not the life you're about to live . It's so vastly different than anything you've ever experienced , but for you , that's all you experience . Yeah , so I think it's just programming .

You know , uh , as a child , while your brain's developing , they're the most important years of your life , of becoming who you are as a person . And , uh , if all of that is filled with trauma , um , or or if it's all filled with what it is , you know , negative , even if it is super negative , but if it's all you know , it's all you know .

So you're so very appreciative , like the fact that you left and came over here . You'll never have to deal with that ever again . Right , like that alone should keep you from being depressed . You know , and and I'm sure that does in a way , right , it built you for that , but I don't know for other people . I know I know for me in particular .

I'm very close to people . I consider myself an empath . My feelings I can't hide them , right , like if I'm sad , you're going to see it on my face . If I'm happy , you're going to see it on my face . That's just how I am . I'm up front with who I am and my feelings .

It was almost not having to deal with that anymore was a good thing , but I feel like I lost a certain family or a special bond that I had that I'll never get again and that when I became a civilian and I went out into the world although that was a traumatic time and experience uh , although that was a traumatic time and experience uh , I'm more depressed

that I don't have those people to rely on , the people that I trust , that have your back , no matter what . That it doesn't matter . If mortars are flying , uh , you know , 20 feet from your , from your tent or whatever , at least you're running out there with a guy that you know will never do you dirty . He's always going to hold you , hold you down .

You know , have your back . He's going to be there to you know , uh , it's so lost in this society out here , um , and and and that's that's kind of like a big thing that that fucks with me . Uh , I've always been ingrained to deal with loss and trauma Like my whole life has been like a crazy ride , so , like in my head , that's normal stuff .

But for other people , if you're just thrown out there and you're 18 years old and all you knew your whole life was working on a farm and playing football , that's a big deal to watch . Watch somebody bleed out or to , you know , kick somebody .

Make sure their eyeballs aren't moving so that way you know they're not going to get up and kill you , like those are . Those are . Those are just different things . We're not you . You , you were probably used to sleeping in wherever you could . You know what I mean . Like , uh , we have beautiful bedrooms and air conditioners and everything you know .

So it's like , once you flip that switch , to be in that more like primal state of mind . I don't think it's not easy to like turn that off .

You know I had never been engaged , but , yeah , one thing that is that that I have seen was that where I agree with you is that , yeah , there were explosions , there were people killed , that same thing that you have seen on the news , and I saw it maybe a little bit closer sometime .

You know , but overall it's all our own mindset on how we can , you know , train our mind to think . Take things simple , you know , and that is where it works , with everything that's we call . They call it a crisis management , and you can be sitting in a nice garden , like you're sitting here , nice view , old Sacramento , a town of 1800 .

No one's bothering us , but you are still depressed for no reason . And it's what and how you are putting your mind . If I tell you , when I left the country and I came to the United States permanently , I went through a lot of hard time and depression , I don't know , while I'm resisting , but I don't know whether I'm good or not .

Either I am good or not , because it's not only those bombs . There is another sort of life that you have to fight for . You have to find your social position again , that you lost Education , people , life , respect , and now I'm an Uber or Lyft driver . So there is this big gap and I mean in terms of that depression and anxiety and trauma .

You can they can't be different than each other . A lot I know and like the way right now I'm fighting , it's , I would tell you , it's not like only me , but thousands of of talars are fighting , yeah , that depression , and they are fighting for their future here in the united states .

It's not less than being in a combat zone yeah , no , you know you were a teacher . You were , you have been teaching at the university . No one gives you a shit right now being an Uber driver . They see you as an illiterate , right , I used to work . I had a very nice job . I had a good business that I was running , so I studied a lot .

I put all the hard work and the result would be being an Uber and Lyft driver . You know , I had a nice home where I was living the nice bed that you defined home , where I was living the nice bed that you defined . Now I live in a small apartment where , you know , all cockroaches are on my head day and night . But I am fighting .

It's to me , to me . Being in Afghanistan with those rockets was a war zone , but right now , dealing with all this depression is is is another , is another war that I am fighting . But I never surrender . I'm strongly fighting back . You know I was working as a software developer . They laid me off .

One thing that I know for sure about myself when , when something goes down for me , I would , I would keep that smile . Yeah , and I was . I was fired once and the HR manager came to me said I mean , we fired those other guys and their color is yellow . Shit , they , they , they barely breathe . Yeah , why you are smiling , why you keep bluffing ?

And I said , like man , if you fired me , it doesn't mean that I wouldn't have another job . You know , I will try to come back here and work with you again and I have that confident . Yeah , trust me , I was at home , spent two months , enjoyed my life and come , came back and sit on the same desk again .

That's the level of confidence where you can fight back with the depression that you have yeah , it's , you're so right , you're so right it .

and drugs .

Well , Well , I think you're not out of control right now , like so what , what , what ?

That's one mindset I have studied and I taught criminology yes where it is , the study of the reason for people committing a crime .

And there are , there are all thoughts that you know , if you are on drugs , right , that drug people might think it's gonna harm me only than no one else , or it will help me reduce my depression or fight a reduce my depression or fight a problem that I have , which it is not , you know , that will feel .

You know , good , the first couple of times that you use it . But if you are not using it then you will be depressed . For instance , go to the , to to the pharmacies , and you know people they take those depression pills , anti-depression pills , you know over the counter and they just use it . That's normal life .

I've never , maybe throughout my life , I have took maybe I took twice the anti-depression tabs , yeah , and it was once here in the United States where I got depressed and then I knew it will not help me permanently , but temporarily it can help you .

But the other point is that you know people believe in religion , they have some faith and they go and pray and then they come back and they are relieved , the way they say like okay , yeah , god says there are hard days , there are good days , you have to do this and that , and they pray and they come stronger , right , that is another way where you do it .

And the next way , like if we compare it to our own cultures , right , it's like people are into drugs to treat depression . I even know doctors . They are psychiatrists , but they are on drugs , and I'm talking about my own country . I've seen people they tell you go , submit to God , pray , be with yourself and your god .

And then there is another , another group . They will tell you . Like you know , beside whatever you do , continuous exercise will help you fight depression and and I think one of the ways I was , I was I was able to find Fight my , my war of depression . Being in the United States .

Many immigrants will hide it , yeah , you know , but that's the reality , yeah , and that was that you have to be at the gym , no matter what , every day , every day , two hours , one and a half hour , just you know , play around with all these needles . It's actually really good , you know , run and walk it , it keeps you very stable than you know .

Being on on on drugs , we know , like you know , drugs .

You know , like uh , there's different ways to look at that to an extent , yeah um , but I would still rather go that route than go into the pharmacy any day of the week and I mean what I , what I understand ?

So everyone should look at it from the perspective . From that perspective , like we'd say , okay , for instance , psyched Alex , I've seen have you seen , a documentary on Netflix called Wild , wild Country ?

It all depends from which angle you are using this environment and whatever is in it , regardless of your faith , regardless of your religion . What I think is that God gave humans that brain and the independence to think about stuff . I have seen many people when it comes to religious beliefs . They say there is a belief that you should believe .

Don't talk about it anymore because you know you are not allowed . But I say think as much as you can , god . That's why god brought you in here to think , explore , have things , enjoy them , but as long as you are not harming yourself .

That was a big one for me , but that's my journey , though . You know everybody . I want everybody to just be happy . You know , whatever makes you happy , long as you're not hurting anybody else , then to each their own . You know , we'll do a couple more questions and we'll finish off here in a little bit , do you ?

We were talking about the integration process of immigrants in here . How much do you think religion plays a part in the not wanting to combine ? Maybe because different faiths sometimes can conflict .

I mean , for some Muslims it might be a barrier that prevents , and I think the beauty of this country is that , based on the US Constitution , you have the right to religion and it didn't define that if you are in this territory , then you should follow this religion , didn't define that you , if you are in this territory , then you should follow this religion ,

and that what gives , I mean to me as a muslim , it's it's first thing is that I have not been prevented so I can exercise my religion . First , that that tells me a lot about this society , in this community , in this country , yeah , and the people . And the second thing with regard to integration is the is religion causing or not ?

I would say , if muslims they have a good historical study , yeah , then they would realize that you know , the difference between religions is something that you can . As our , our own , our own religion says that everyone has the right to religion and they have the right to practice their religion .

So if , if , if I , as a muslim , practice and someone else , as a christian or jewish , practice their own religion , that should not bother me , and that's what my , my religion taught me . The real religion , the real religion . I'm not talking about the radical religion interpretation that wants me to hate a Judas or a Christian or a Buddhist .

You know , if you look at it from the historic perspective , you know Muslims . They used to live shoulder to shoulder in one community with Christians , with Jews , in a place where it's been a war zone for 70 years I'm talking about Jerusalem .

You know they used to live together , they shared the finances , they do business together and look at it from different perspectives . So there are two things For Muslims they should understand if they don't , that you know that's what the real Islam is . And for those , for non-Muslims , that we are in their country , they should also understand that .

Okay , yeah , for most of them I think it is , but for some of them that might be they might be considering them that we are practicing a religion which is a radical religion . One thing that I see the beauty of Muslims in the United States is that most of Muslims in the United States they are the real and true Muslims . They are , I mean

, I wouldn't say 100% , but 99% of them are not radical Muslims .

And I mean this guy will come and teach you the way that , if in some cases , even you don't need to , you know , cover your hair , your face . It all depends on that . You have to look at the environment in the community , for instance .

He says if you go to your office and all of a sudden you see that covering your head , which most Muslims do , will prevent you from employment , you know , then don't wear it . Then don't wear it . Yeah , but the beauty I see here , like I go to college , I did work . You know my wife , she's studying at the university . She would go with her head covered .

You know she wears the way she should . No one bothers and no one disrespects her .

You know , and I think to an extent they are respected as well , in a way that you know she is a traditional woman yeah you know they people , the moment they , they , they , they get in touch , they start to know a little bit more about the boundaries of , like you know , the way you talk to someone else you cannot talk to .

You wouldn't talk to a Muslim girl you meet . You know she's covered up in a way . So I think that's the beauty and I think both sides like I'm talking about Muslims they should integrate into other communities . One is it depends , relates to , to every human .

Like you know , if I want to follow another religion , right , there are some strict boundaries that I wouldn't talk about it like it's . That's the interpretation .

People say like in islam , you cannot convert into other religion or you I wouldn't talk about those things because that's most complicated and philosophical stuff that will take a lot of time it's not needed like yeah , but overall I would say like , let's integrate , let's know each other .

End of the day , there is one religion and we call it the religion of god and that ends to humanity . Right , and we , regardless of our religion , faith , believe we should treat each other first thing , first , as a human . Yes , it doesn't matter what is your color , what is your religion , what do you believe in ? Right , yeah , you should .

We should treat each other as a human . I feel very sorry for the world today . If , I mean , it's been throughout the history , you know they fight for the name of religion they fought , fight for , for economy or whatever .

But if , if people think of stuff , the way that we are all human and we have human rights and we should treat each other with humanity , I think no one will will stand up and kill another human . I think , and I believe the creator of this , this planet , in this world yeah , right , put enough resources in this planet .

You know that we can for everyone , but it's we humans that we are unjust . You know I'm not saying that . You know there shouldn't be a capitalist world , there shouldn't be a liberal market .

What I understand is that there should be an equal distribution of wealth for hard work and talent and intelligence of every human , absolutely you know , which I think is not . We are heading somewhere to get someone's wealth and believing that , you know , if I take your wealth , there is , you know , wealth for me and a prosperous life , which I don't think .

So that is the case . Yeah , I don't think so either .

For whatever reason , no matter what , I couldn't , I cannot see , like , obviously we're different skin colors , but that's never mattered to me my entire life . I grew up around nothing but black people , mex people . I'm not . I'm like Portuguese , where I lived over in Modesto , like I was like a white boy there , right , just because the way I grew up .

So I never have been able to see the difference in people like , like in the best way possible .

It's like I'm colorblind and that's kind of why , like I started doing this , I didn't realize how much , all over that we're so quick to judge or we're so quick to discriminate , you know , and sometimes it's not even on purpose , it's just like in you , it's just the way we're built , um , so I think that I know in our country we have .

You know , hate and discrimination . That is that's what I understood . Like you know , and it's not that you know , our country maybe has 15% illiterate population and 30 or 65 or 70% illiterate population , but overall when you see the illiterate population , they live without any discrimination .

You know they live alongside each other but they educate they , they know politics and then they come together , sit with what went with a group of people whose political interest defines to be to discriminate , so they benefit from I think I think with higher education and some type of classism , yeah , and true , true and uh , you know , whether you you want it or

not , like who you're with around at all times .

Yeah , so , um , I think when you're in that field of academia , of very higher end sort of society , minds there comes with what you say like so there is one thing high academia they are , to me , complete people .

Like you know , I have I spent my life being an academic and around people who were at the university , might the teachers and students . Yeah , what I found , like people who really go around the circle and complete the circle .

They understand and they never fall into the hands of of of politics , where the politics seems to be benefiting from , from discrimination yes , you know , that makes perfect sense it really , it really does .

But , um , what are your future plans for you , your wife , your kids ? Uh , with business ? Um , I'd like to know what you got going ahead of you .

We did train a lot of people on softwares for the last three years and the goal of their setting up the company was , I think , somewhere around one of these buildings , nice , of these buildings there .

We I had my own office and but we had to shut it down for because of the economic turbulence but the goal is that my wife will go complete her education and support algo soft in the future amazing and yeah , I will , and the end goal will be I'll do my PhD and the end goal will be I'll do my PhD and go and teach again .

And yeah , I mean it never ends for me that I will , only because I live in the United States . The end of the day , it will be only United States . I still have the intention to serve Afghanistan . I'm waiting for the time whenever it's good , so I will keep myself updated . I follow the news . I keep myself , unfortunately , good or bad . I studied politics .

That's where I never I wouldn't leave it . So that's pretty much the plan and the goal we have with my kids . There is different perspective of other people that I see , so they educate their , their kids , only here , because they go to school , they get a job or run a business .

But you know , I want my kids to be culturally connected with their home country as well , so they know the values of those people and and and and and the country as well . So you never know if there is need tomorrow or one day when they grow up and they have to serve back the people in the nation where they were once belonged to .

That's really so , that's the goal . So that's one of the reasons I keep my kids involved with the Afghan community , so they learn from each other . And , yeah , that's important with the afghan community .

So they learn from each other and , yeah , that's so they grow , uh , as a afghan american who knows both values at the same time that's important , and then especially showing them , you know uh , it gives you appreciation for what you have here , you know .

When it comes , you know , and I'm not worried about that at all , but everything that has come is just getting reinvested into this anyways , so it really doesn't matter too much . But once it I do get everything set up , uh , for the non-profit , I'm gonna be doing , um , shit .

Well , basically all the money that people can donate to this is going to be helping the people that I talk to on the podcast . So you know you're doing all right , but you know , let's just say you were somebody that was in a much worse position . Down on their luck , I'm going to be able to help that person get on their feet .

Maybe that's go to rehab , maybe it's a plane ticket home , see their kid , like whatever . Maybe that's kind of a thing I want to do with this as well , as I told you about the therapy ranch and everything . So I'm fully engulfed in this right now and all that is is just trying to help people .

So I appreciate that , with all you have going on , you still have thoughts on wanting to give back . You know whether that's through your kids and you know that . I think that's very important . So , yeah , man , I think I think we probably we did it . I think we did a really good one man . I think I think we probably we did it .

I think we did a really good one man . I just want to say thank you so much .