231 - Mother of Flies

Slashin' cast.

Welcome back, fiends, to handle whisker. Priely presented by the Slash Incast Podcast Network, we're the show that dissects horror through the primal fears that fuel our nightmares exploring what terrifies us both on and off the screen. I'm your host, Emily Drunk, and tonight we're taking a look at the Addams Family's latest entry that just hit shutter. Of course about mother of flies and

As always I'd like to extend an invitation to join our community of Glorehounds the Fiends. Every Tuesday and Thursday night at 730 PM Pacific time. We host watch parties on our Discord. Tuesdays focus on the movies we talk about here on the show, while Thursday selections focus on brand new releases.

You can stay connected with us over on our Discord at bit.ly forward slash handlewiscare. And with me here tonight, as always, is McCo's Grindhouse Zombie and Zombie. We had uh our first double feature.

Uh, horror release of the year in regards to theatrical releases. I know you and I both gotta see a different movie. Uh two very different experiences based off of what uh information you have given me. Um so what I will say is I did go out and I saw Sam Raimi's new flick. uh which is send help. If you follow me on Letterboxd you uh know that I had already posted a review as I've been doing with basically every single twenty twenty six release that I've seen so far.

And it is exactly what I needed it to be. It's a very relatable movie. All of us have had that asshole boss where it's just like, I can't wait to see this guy get his come up in. And that movie definitely delivered it in spades. Uh and

It's just as bloody as you would expect it to be from Sam Raimi. Uh and all in all, it was definitely one of the better detrimental releases so far, so The the trend for the current data releases has been uh pretty steady so far, up until I got your feedback on what you saw.

Yeah, so let me take that current trend and uh uh hold it down and shoot it in the face. Um so I saw Iron Long last night with my uh my consummate movie date, my buddy Trevor. And So the horror of this movie started before the movie even started. So we walked into the theater, which was packed, by the way, and there were people in our seats already. And

We were both kinda confused, like, are we in the right place? And then the the previews they were showing didn't seem quite right, so there was a little confusion and so So Trevor went to check and so while Trevor was checking I'm like, Yeah, I'm gonna go back in there and I I'm in the right place and I walk up and there's two people and like you're in my seats and they're like, No we're not and I'm like I have my app out and I'm like, Yeah, you are. You gotta fucking move. Move and I was

Not quite irritated, but I was super super close. Well what it boils down to is that these two people and I try not to be a harsh judgmental asshole most of the time, but in this one instance I'm going to be both harsh and judgmental. These were two of the fattest people I've seen in my life. And the reason they were not in their own seats, which were two seats over from us, is because they had spilled all of their food on the floor.

And when I say all of their food, I mean two buckets of popcorn and two trays of nachos. including the cheese, were on the floor in front of the seats. And the reason they weren't sitting there is I'm guessing they did not want to be perceived as the people responsible for the Mount Everest size mess that was in in front of these seats. And so I've like I got him to move and I sat down. And I texted my buddy Trevor, I'm like, We're good.

And he comes in, walks up and I kinda give him the air up here. He stops at the edge of the row and looks down and is like, What the fuck? What is all over the floor? And then he kind of like literally you can hear him walk, you can hear him crunching through the popcorn as he's going And he he sits down.

We sit through this movie, um, which if it had been a seven to ten minute short film would have been great. It would've been a great film. That said, it was over two hours long and Not since Skinamarink have I longed for a movie to fucking be over. Um Uh some interesting visuals. The the craft that the guy was in was kind of interesting. I there was a simplicity to it that I thought was really fun.

The movie itself was fucking terrible. Um and but seeing that the theater was almost completely full, I'm like What the fuck is going on? Because when we first started talking about this, you had mentioned markiply. And I I asked you, I said, what the hell is a markuplier? So you had you had to explain it to me because I had no idea what that was.

And then you and I end up getting in into a discussion about you know, how things are marketed and then I brought up Skinmarink and you were like, That was marketed all over the place and and then you said this was very grassroots and I'm like, Someone who has thirty seven billion followers is not grassroots and we went back and forth and we did all this shit.

In the end, indie horror is always gonna get me. I'm always gonna go see it. I'm always gonna try to appreciate it. For a single setting movie, with the actor that they had and the setting that they had, this was not good. The premise was cool, execution was really poor.

But still indie people keep making movies. Now people that go to indie movies When you're half my age, four times my weight, and can barely move, you're making some bad life choices. Um, this is not a judgment, this is just a fact. So maybe think about doing something about it. Because when the person sitting next to you has piled up their food to the point where it's in get in your shoes, there's a problem. And I again I say I try not to be judgmental, but Jesus Christ. This was just I mean

I wish I had I wish I had been that douche that could take out my phone and like taken a picture of the theater floor while the movie was playing because both of these people also were on their phones the entire time. So After all this, I had to like Ward off bright screens. I mean uh like f fucking people, this is this is the theater. You're not in your fucking living room. Sit down, shut the fuck up, put your phone down and don't spill shit all over the floor. It was just

the most ridiculous thing. Um but anyway, Trevor, still love you, buddy. Thanks thanks for hanging in. Cause that movie sucked. Um and but Like I said pre show, it's the movie I've liked the least so far this year. But it's also the movie I've talked about the most of so maybe they're maybe they're winning. I don't know. I I don't think so'cause the movie was just a turd. But um

Maybe the next one,'cause you know how with indie filmmakers they always try to make a second one. I I don't know what the second one's gonna be about. I'm guessing it's gonna be about a rubber ducky floating through a bubble bath. Uh but

I'll probably still watch it. So Well it needed to be fair. Um Well the first one was a an ocean of blood, I figured like an ocean of soap studs might make s I I've I've talked about this movie all day long with multiple people. I still have no idea what it was actually about. I don't know what the problem was. I don't know how they were trying to solve it.

I don't know if anybody even gave a shit if they did solid. It's it's so confusing. It's a it's a bloodbath for the sake of a bloodbath. But with some cool little things. There were there were some cool little things in there. individuals and other things. So the people that made it have potential, this is just not their home run.

Right on, so yeah, so I mean m the point that I was trying to make when we were talking about like social media was more so we have had similar titles that got that releases with much bigger fund in behind them, specifically through distribution. A la house on Eden, as I was saying. Um, so just from a fandom perspective having that size following doesn't necessarily always translate to box office success or wider theatrical release. So really the fan base

They were really demanding them release Iron Lund in a lot of theaters, and it did get a pretty sizable release for this type of movie. Now that being said, where it ends at the end of the day remains to be seen, they're projecting eight to ten million, but Regardless, it's gonna be a huge box of success, knowing that the budget was probably under two million uh at that button.

I'm still gonna go see it just'cause I'm I'm curious, but again, first day having that size fandom of course you gotta kinda put your blinders on because, you know, the infatuation with the with the star is gonna kinda like supersede any uh bad things about the movie. Uh so I'm I I'm waiting a little bit, but it's definitely still on the agenda uh here when I do get a chance.

And uh who knows? Maybe it will just be usurped by uh the double feature that we got coming out. Uh'cause we got whistle. And the Stranger Chap Three coming out this uh this week. So I know so many people are gonna be looking forward to that. Uh it's uh yeah, that's uh I I d I don't even know if I would be able to put myself through that because I know it just sounds like it's gonna be pure torture.

Um, but who knows? Maybe I get super drunk beforehand and then I go to the AMC, it might end up being a lot better than what it actually should be. Uh but I digress. Uh so it's it feels like it's gonna be a very somber ending to Hey I I tell you what, I I have an Aztec death whistle on my shelf. Should I blow it and see what it sounds like if we record it?

I bet it's uh let's find out. I'm now I'm just curious. Let's just you know what? I it's I'm having one of those days. I'm having one of those days. I'm honestly I'm drunk as hell already. So let's just blow it and see what happens. And all the pets in the neighborhood are gonna be like, what the fuck was that? Okay. Ha ha ha ha. Okay, that's what it sounds like for anybody that needs to know. Um so yeah, the strangers uh the strangers chapter, who gives a fuck, also known as chapter two, was

I not quite as bad as the first one, but I mean for the strangers chapter, who really gives a fuck? Um yeah, I don't have high hopes. And if I had to pick one, I'm I'm gonna go see Whistle because at least it's new and I At least there's a fifty fifty chance I won't be disappointed. I mean it it's probably more like I it's

My my desire to see something new was drive me to one of them. So I don't know. Let's cross our fingers and see what happens. Absolutely. Uh but anyway tonight we got a mother of flies.

The synopsis for this reads When a young woman faces a deadly diagnosis, she seeks dark magic from a witch in the woods, but every cure has cost. Alright, so usually the typical question that's posed by supernatural horror always concerns itself with cost. You know, what must be sacrificed to traffic with forces beyond our understanding? Mother of Lies, of course, is the latest offerin from the Adams Family Collective. Uh superficially adheres to this convention before dismantling it.

The film presents us with Mickey, played by Zelda Adams, a young woman whose cancer has returned with a six month prognosis, desperate enough to seek the aid of Solvig, played by Toby Poser, a witch dwelling in the Catskill Mountains. Her father Jake, played by John Adams, warns that nothing in life is free, activating our stronger conditioned expectations of diabolic bargains and soul stealing transactions.

Yet the Adams family, John, Toby, and Zelda, serve as both writers, directors, editors, composers and of course the stars. Uh, they've crafted something That is more uh conceptually ambitious. You know, this is a film that really interrogates not the price paid by those who seek the supernatural, but the costs extracted from those who embody it. So as we discussed pre show, the Addams family, they've always made movies that have

This is an oversimplic summation of this, but it's a witchy tone, right? Um there's always somebody who's a seer or somebody who's uh a necromancer or someone who is Uh there's a word I'm looking for, but my fucking d liquor-soaked brain can't think of. But th there's always something really witchy about these and and it's something otherworldly. And

As much as I liked this movie, uh, like we talked pre-show, I think this was the place where I kinda hit my limit with like, okay, we're witchy. Like, I get it. Um What else is there? Um and I wanna make it clear. I like this family, I like what they do, um

My favorite movie of theirs is is gonna be The Deeper You Dig, but that movie is also one of my favorite horror movies. Probably it's probably in my top twenty horror movies of all time. Um My overarching we'll just call it issue because I do like this movie, but my overarching issue is that as much as they try to make this movie about humanity

In a sense, because it gets so witchy, it sort of loses the human element. And this is just for me. It loses it a little bit. And while you watch it, there's there's a point where

Maybe not a horror movie watcher, but somebody who is a we'll call it a casual movie watcher or even a casual horror movie watcher comes upon this movie. There's a lot of things where This is a movie I think to watch it and to take it in, you have to pay undivided attention. If you turn your head for a second and look back, you're gonna be fucking lost.

because things change so quickly. And I've watched this movie twice now and I'm still not entirely sure that I know what it's about. And I and that every single thing that happened, um And while I'm a fan of of a movie that you have to rewatch to really take it all the way in By the second time I watch it, I should know completely what it's about. Um, and so that goes back to the witchy thing and I'm just in my head, I think they might be getting it a little too witchy for me. Um

So like the family, like I said before, I had the opportunity once to interview them and they are great people. They're really great people. And for people that have the ability to have films in in festivals and to travel the world and to go anywhere and to do anything now, they're still very Down to earth digging the dirt people. They they still live in a in a small and simple community. Um

And so, you know, they're they're people that I would have absolutely no problem hanging out with and doing things and telling my deepest, darkest secrets, although I think some of those might end up on film if I did that. Um But yeah, we're we're getting we're getting a little left field for me where the the witchy part starts to lose me and that's just me, you know. So I say to them, you know, do what you're doing, people love it.

This one just the the ball was just a little on the other side of the foul line, and I'm like, heh. Okay, well I wouldn't want them to reel it back in, but if I've gotta watch a movie a third and a fourth time to fully understand it, it's maybe a little out there.

Is there really anyone familiar with the Adams family's work understands that Uh they're fundamentally like oppositional relationship when it comes to conventional horror filmmaking. You know, their work is always operated in this sort of like deliberate tension with genre expectations. They really refuse to replicate what has already saturated the market.

You know, this isn't mere like contrarianism. Uh it's more philosophy born from you know, constraint transformed in ascetic principle. You know, they have this restricted budget as in the filmmakers that might, you know, hamstring other filmmakers and in their hands it's really For them it's more of an engine of invention.

You know, the practical effects on display in Mother of Lies really exemplifies that sort of approach. You know, we have the blood and the gore, and they're not simply, you know, practical in the technical sense, you know, they're they're visceral, they're uncomfortably tangible in ways that a lot of times these digital effects often fail to achieve.

You know, we do have a lot of body horror, which operates with you know the cunning of stage magic and it creates moments when we have intellectual recognition of you know artifice battles against visceral disgust. It's this materiality that matters somatically. You know, here we have a film concerned with, you know, physicality of bodies. It's cancers, we have decomposition, we have transformation.

And it's the tactile reality of the effects that grounds the supernatural in this sort of corporeal truth. So when Solvig appears blood soaked, writhing in the mud, or when Jake is suffering these grotesque symptoms, or even when Mickey's abdomen is slit open, you know, we are confronting

You know, flesh as both prison and possibility. I think one of the things

Probably the biggest thing that I took away from this movie. And shockingly enough, it was actually my wife that pointed it out. Um you know, I'm I'm a huge horror nerd. My wife is not so much a horror nerd. And when you're watching a movie and your wife says something to the effect of, and I'm gonna paraphrase here, but she said, This is interesting, they're not using the typical archetypes that they use in their movies. And I was just like What? Like what are you when she's like

most of their movies they have uh this this mother daughter archetype that they're always kind of fighting and then they're d they're kind of doing the good and evil. And in this one they're sorta doing that at a baser level with the mother and the baby, but in this one it's the dad and I was just like

Fuck I love you. You do pay attention. You know? Um but that made this movie a little bit different. That, you know, it's not just because you have Hellbender where the mom is working so hard to sort of you know, keep the daughter isolated from the you know what at first kind of seems just like the poisons of humanity, but then in reality is actually a thing. And then the deeper you dig is just trying to

Do what we're all trying to do and trying to keep a kid safe and not have to deal with the shit that actually happens in the world. So this was a little bit different that we had A kid who was actually sick and, you know, kind of put a little bit of effort into

And I think this is probably one of the more interesting things, put a little bit of effort into l to hey, I've done all these things, I've done all these therapies, I've done whatever else. Let's try something uh for lack of a better term, a little more holistic, right? Where we're, you know, it's not the

Going to the doctor and getting stabbed with a needle. It's going somewhere and sitting in a tent and having somebody blow smoke rings in your face. It's i one of those kind of things where it's it's it's not necessarily um the prescribed treatment, but it's also kind of a what do you have to lose? And

for this movie, for it to be the dad who has to be like, well, okay and then the person who has to go along on this journey, it's a little bit different take for this family. Usually Y you break it right down, there's sort of a I don't want to piss off the whole world by saying this, but there's there's a little bit of an ultra feminist vibe in a lot of their movies. Um and in this one That's definitely apparent, but I think with, you know, the dad as Jake.

He's definitely right there. I mean he definitely gets a beatdown over the course of the movie, so the the the the the ultra feminist matriarchal sort of vibe is definitely there. Um but in the character presentation it's definitely different and it feels different and um I'm not sure if it's good, bad, or otherwise. I don't really have an opinion, but it was different. Um, so sometimes within the same group of movie makers

Sometimes a little bit different can be good and sometimes it can be bad. I I sort of enjoyed it. They took a little bit different twist and spin on it.

Yeah, here they definitely have this sort of like structural peculiarity uh within the treatment of Mickey, because you know, initially she's like this ostensible protagonist despite her, you know, functional narrative stasis. You know, here she's making this decision to embrace Solvig's treatment, and that precedes her introduction to her character. And she never really wavers from her commitment. You know, she exists in this state of resolute desperation.

where she's willing to endure any suffering, you know, she's willing to accept any consequence, even exile her own father if he dares threaten to undermine her less prestige of agency. And it's that unwavering conviction that, you know, some people might read as potentially like poor characterization in this sort of conventional narrative, but really the Addams family aren't constructing a conventional narrative within this movie. You know, Mickey's

Immovability really serves this specific purpose. You know, it forces this dramatic tension away from will she go through with it and more towards some more unsettled questions about bodily autonomy. You know, this the desperation that cancer inflicts and the limited choices that are offered to the terminally ill.

No, her commitment to the ritual mirrors her earlier submission to chemotherapy. You know, both involve consuming poison. Both demand faith in the process. in something that may fail and both strip away dignity and service of survival.

You know, this film really draws this parallel explicitly but refuses to moralize it. You know, if Mickey accepted the toxicity of Western medicine without question, why should mystical poison be any different? You know, the question exposes really are our cultural like biases about what constitutes legitimate suffrage. Well and that's so interesting that you say that because Like I have an old friend who and we're talking at this point, fuck. Almost thirty years ago?

Um, had a bone marrow transplant. And thirty years ago it was You know, it might work, it might not work. We'll see. Well, he's still alive. You know, so it clearly did. Now, does that outcome apply to everybody? No, definitely not. And I understand that, right? That's just that's just how things are.

And I sort of like when you see a movie, I mean, and and including this one, where we have people that sort of question convention. You know, this is what we should do. And it's like, well, why should we do this? Well, it's because we, the doctors, say so. And it's like In my head, it's like, well, who the fuck made you God? Right? At the same time

One would hope that these are the people that know, right? These are the people that have the knowledge, that understand the research, that have gone through all these things. But then there's always this nagging thought in the back of my head and it's like Yeah, these are the same group of people that created the opioid crisis. So it's like U

Eh. So the the the trust in the faith and I think that's uh I honestly think that's one of the big things this movie talks about is the trust in the faith in the in the modern medicine system that it is. And not not the Obamacare bullshit and all that stuff people talk about. Just medicine in general and and what it's doing right now and what it's driven by. And

who profit from it. So it's it's interesting to see that we have this person that has gone through all these things and At its core with this movie, when you know that you have this What is now you know, watching Zelda Adams grow up in the movies that she's made, it's'cause I've I I've pretty much seen all of the movies that they've made and knowing that now she's a college age kid

If you're a diehard fan of theirs, watching her grow as an actress and just as a person, there's a little bit of something that feels like not it's not quite kinship, but it's almost like And not fatherhood either, but it's like the

Like a really great uncle feeling, right? You've because you've watched her grow as this character. And knowing that she's now a college kid and she has this cancer, and then on top of everything else, it's uterine cancer. I mean, which is I think to their point, strikes at the heart of life. You know, not only is she dying, but the part of her that could make more life is the thing that is causing her to die. So it's there's

About nineteen layers of metaphors on top of that that you could like start shoveling in back and forth. Um But it's still in a lot of ways Watching her suffer in this movie, and I think this is probably one of the greatest things that they captured. is watching her suffer is really a hard thing. And maybe if you're not a diehard Addams Family fan, maybe you won't feel it. But Going all the way back to I think it's twenty seventeen or twenty eighteen, with the deeper you dig, i it's

For me it was a difficult thing to watch and it to watch her as an actress and to the way that they show you her on the screen with often the red eyes and the random bruises and things like that. Um Going back to my buddy that had the bone marrow transplant, he often looked like that and Not for any perceptible reason otherwise other than I'm trying to get through it. Um, and so for me, uh

The visuals that I saw that what what what I was presented was very personal and I could definitely feel it. Um my one problem with the movie that I've alre kind of already presented, but I will expend upon later, notwithstanding It they're still they're still doing a pretty good job at telling a human tale and

I'm starting to think that maybe maybe my problem with this one is that it got a little too personal. Um but it's still in the end, it's you know You can go so far into the woods and you can call upon so many spirits But there's a point where you get too deep in the woods and you're lost and and my fear is that they're almost there.

And with uh the father, Jake, you know, he brings this level of skepticism. You know, he really provides us this surrogate position uh as the audience. Yet the film kinda complicates his perspective by revealing it as both, you know, rational concern, uh, but also like paternalistic control. You know, his doubt really stems from love. But also from this inability to accept that his daughter might be beyond his protection. No it's that sort of

Resignation to her choice represents not acceptance but defeat. You know, this creates this, you know, productive discomfort. You know, we sympathize with this fear while also recognizing that his doubt may be as harmful as Solvig's rituals. As a father?

The hardest thing that you will face, the hardest. absolute hardest thing that you will face is knowing that your children are beyond your con not your control, but your protection. That there's a point where you just have to cut the leash and you have to let them go. And for the most part, what happens, happens. Um as a dad, I've had two very specific moments with one with each of my children where there was a moment where it was like, I shouldn't have been there.

But the point of raising children Um you know, th th the point of making new people isn't just to propagate. The the the point is to make people that are strong and can go out and do their own things and make their own decisions. Um The risk with that is that bad things will happen and I I know that like f for me, again as a dad, there was a especially with my youngest, there was a point where

Uh I don't want to go into details, but I'll just say that murder was an option. Okay? And a very viable option to solve a problem. Um But that's not realistic, right? And when you have the data on this. I think he's he's gotten to that point where w when you've tried everything and everything has been put through the process and everything has but come out the other side and you still feel you still feel like you're not getting anywhere. that despite your skepticism

You're willing to try anything. And again, as a dad, I totally get that. You know, yeah, let's go out into the woods and rub the assholes of two tree frogs together and see if they make a magic. Cancer curing butt serum. Let's try it. Because why the fuck not? What do we have to lose? And

So it's not with what we have going on, it's not unrealistic. It's actually not. It's you know, as you hear about more and more things that come up in again our dastardly medical community. People hate it, but I mean at the same time, uh I think it's hard to argue that it does more good than it does bad. And No one's gonna know out until they go out and they rub the buttholes of two tree frogs together whether that's a cure for something. No one's gonna know until somebody tries it.

And with all of this, I I think it's the same way. Fu see, I'm talking myself into liking a movie. Fuck. Why do I keep doing this? I uh Uh anyway, um so I think the the feeling and the and the the pretense of what they're doing is is very real and very palpable. And as they go through it, the skepticism of the dad And how he starts to slowly lean into the well maybe I don't know as much as I think I do.

Is very real and is very human. And yes, I've talked myself into liking him a vacant, son of a bitch.

I'll let you go. Now in regards to this being a movie that you really need to have like astute observation in, there is definitely Temporal structure that operates in this movie. And it's essentially through these layers of collapse time. So with Saul Vig, she exists simultaneously in the present narrative and also in flashbacks that gradually reveal themselves as, you know, maybe they're not quite flashbacks. You know, she has performed these sort of rituals.

Uh she's wandered the same woods. She's faced the same prejudice for in the indeterminate span, uh, which, you know, based off of what we've seen in the movie, seems to have been centuries. And then we have this temporal compression, and it's not merely like atmospheric, but it's thematically essential. You know, it suggests that the persecution of women who transgress social boundaries, who, you know, possess this knowledge that's deemed threatening.

refuse to conform to you know acceptable expressions of femininity exist outside historical specific specificity. You know, the witch hunting impulse isn't relegated to the past, but it perpetually recurs in this.

As an actress, I'm gonna tell you what, I love Toby Poser. I This is gonna sound crass as hell, but Her portrayals on screen and the various uh parts that she's played, she comes across as so caring, so understanding. So full of piss and vinegar and hate that The best thought that I can come to in my mind is that I wish I had gone to prom with her because I bet I would never forget that night, and for a multitude of reasons.

The characters that she plays. I think it's safe to say that we're tiptoeing into Tropi. With the characters she plays. Um uh think about where the devil roams. Think about uh Hellbender. In the end She ends up being very maternal and if as a person that's how she feels and that's what she thinks is gonna give her the best thing that comes across as a movie. Fuck it. You do you. I'm there for it. Um She has an intensity that is uh I think when it comes to actresses in general.

is almost unmatched. I c I can't think of another actress that is has the intensity that she does. Um This family in general, um And especially Like I've always liked Lulu Adams, but it seems like she's kinda taken a step back from the the family acting thing. You know, she's always good she's now has s m as time goes on, she seems like she's having smaller and smaller parts and that's fine. You you gotta grow, you gotta do your thing. Um

John Adams has always been this linchpin in the movies, right? He's he's always been this this this person or this thing which in almost exclusively becomes a pivot point for morality. Um and and Zelda Adams is U f and I'm not trying to diminish her, but in a lot of ways has always been our damsel in distress or sometimes our damsel corpse in distress.

But uh for whatever this family is doing, I mean they've they've got some things figured out. I mean I I still want them to reach for the stars a little more and maybe tell me a little bit less of a Lost in the Woods tale. But I also know that they're independent filmmakers and they make a lot of films on their own property with their own cars and their own neighbors and their own friends and their own family and, you know, even the catering table came out of the barn, you know, so

Uh there's no way that you can't appreciate that, you know, and I'm always going to. I think with this one.

The biggest thing that was both intriguing to me, but then because I haven't had a chance to watch it three or four times, is there's some things with the births that happen in this. that I'm having a hard time tying to what I'm supposed to think. Um maybe that's the point. Maybe I'm not supposed to think a particular thing. Because again, with her having uterine cancer

Most of the time the cure for that is what? The hysterectomy, right? Um, which is then the robbing or the death of future motherhood. Um But then at the same time, they're constantly making motherhood a theme here, so I I I'm a little bit confused as to what they're trying to tell me here. Um uh Like I said, having my having my wife watch this and and she saw this as a uniquely feminist film. Um and you know, talking about

mothers and daughters and how they like they often end up kind of at the at the bottom of the pecking order, even though they're often the ones that do the most for the family. Um and I think that's probably accurate. But I'm not a woman, so I'm not gonna claim to speak for women'cause that just doesn't make any sense. Um

So yeah, I mean maybe maybe a third watch, a fourth watch is gonna give me a little more clarity on that, but there's a couple of things I'm still just like, Heh. I don't I don't get exactly what you're trying to tell me. Um I I I know this family, so it's probably pretty good, but I just quite haven't gotten it yet.

Yeah probably the biggest uh revelation that we get through throughout Mother of Flies is the fact that, you know, Solvig has been dead this whole time. Since she's been dead a lot, it really recontextualizes every prior scene. You know, Mickey and Jake have been uh communicated not with a living practitioner, but a ghost bound to the earth by grief and desire. No, if we have these recurring images of

you know, decomposing female bodies, which you know, initially register as premonitory horror, but it really functions as literal truth. Here we have Solvig, who is this core. has always been a corpse, and has just been sustained by supernatural will and unfulfilled maternal lawin. And in a lot of ways, you know, that's where the twist can come across as gimmicky.

But the film really has seeded it like so thoroughly through visual motifs. You know, we have the flies that constantly surround her, you know, we have her refusal to eat, you know, her observation that death can be just as beautiful as life itself. So the revelation arrives with the weight of inevitability rather than surprise.

Well I I I ultimately think that One of the things that this movie symbolizes is that as a society and as people, we have lost our connection with the ethereal. And that's both life and death. Um, and and being on a on a plane where you could tiptoe between either one of those at any any given moment. And and that could happen because you're dying of cancer or it could happen because you had a c you had a car crash and

Are the people that can save your life gonna get there fast enough? Um and we live in this just tip of the spear lightning fast in this moment and three seconds from now it doesn't matter as long as this second is the best and With this one it takes all that and it kinda slows all that down and it brings you To you know, and and watching watching Mickey through this whole movie, it brings you to almost like a minute by minute play by play of

Yeah, I'd like something to eat yeah, I'm feeling pretty good. To oh my god, I'm throwing up to oh my god I feel like shit. To oh my god I'm coughing up blood to and how when you're afflicted with something like this, how it can change your perspective. Um and I think that might actually be the biggest thing I've taken away from this is that there's this perspective change and Once you get to a point where you know that the thing that you've been fearing forever

is no longer something to be feared. That that it just blows your world wide open. It it it opens every single door. Everything is the next possibility. Um And a very I still love the very end of this movie where You can sit in a doctor's office and you can have somebody that you've relied upon so heavily and someone who is supposed to be the expert, you know, and is supposed to be the person who is guiding your course look you in the face and say, We're baffled.

We don't we don't know what happened. But you know what we're gonna do? We're gonna order another battery of tests to try to figure it out and you, for the first time in your life, just to go, Fuck you. No you're not. We're done with that shit and you Can you imagine the sense of freedom that that moment would hold? It's it's just fucking mind-boggling that that uh damn. Okay, well, I'm gonna take back everything I said about this movie being too itchy. I

Just forget all that. I I love this movie again. And I don't know, that as you go through it and you do have these very sort of synaptic moments of the movie where they're popping back and forth between the here and the now and the hither and the dither and you really never know where you are.

But then to your point where you get to the end of the movie and you realize that it doesn't fucking matter. You know, it's not for all these all these all these flashpoints and all these flashbacks and it's it's almost not relevant. And This person who uh is in the ground and is supposedly your sort of phantom tour guide, the reality is.

It could be your dead grandmother or your dead grandfather or your dead uncle or your dead aunt or your dead brother or your dead sister. And it's it's not so much about m necessarily having to dig into uh uh a weird and and ghostly and smoky past. It's more about remembering the people that had an impact on you. and taking not what they taught you because

Being taught is a i i i it's a rough word. People don't like to be taught. It's it's about taking what they shared with you and taking it forward and maybe making it important and sharing it with the next generation. And I think with As we taper towards the end of this movie, that's kind of what it's about. And while yes there might be a quote unquote cure.

They don't focus on the why it was cured. They focus on the fact that it was like, you know what? Next step. Let's go. And I that's probably one of the things I like so much about this movie.

And there's definitely some biblical symbolism too in this, uh, but it really kinda like avoids more like the heavy handed moralize and it often accompanies those sort of references. Like an example, so with Mickey's tumor. You know, it's described as apple sized. You know, it really becomes this sort of forbidden fruit that solvig craves. You know, we have the serpent that Solvig transfers into Mickey through this hypnotic ritual that serves as guide, which is leading the witch to her pride.

But this movie really inverts the traditional interpretation of Genesis. You know, here, the fruit isn't the origin of sin, it's the source of redemption.

You know, what Western medicine d deems pathological, you know, the tumor that will kill Mickey becomes in Solvig's hands the material of creation itself. Oh, that is so good that you said that because that was I know we had this discussion before w with with other movies, but I I think this bears repeating because with both the modern day interpretation of uh you know The garden.

as it were, and the apple and the snake, and Adam and Eve, and you know, or if you're one of those people it might have been Adam and Steve. Whatever. I don't give a shit. The the interpretation is so good because it's so visual, right? I mean, I I can't think of another movie that so visually represents that as well. I mean, like literally the serpent down the throat.

On top of that, I think it also tries to show you that in terms of we'll call we'll call it medicine, right? I mean There was a time where we did bloodletting. There was a time where we did Cupping. We stuck needles in people to try to relieve pain and now people do that all the time.

There was a time where it was people tried to like, well what if we took this organ out and tried to put it in here and saw what happened and people were like, Oh my god you know and I think we had this discussion probably probably during Frankenstein. And And it's like and now it's you know We always make the joke and it's like

That thing's super expensive. It's gonna cost a kidney. Well in this day and age, a kidney is not even a good representation of expensive anymore because they do kidney transplants all the time. I mean, I'm certain it's probably not enough for some people that need one. But it's something that we do. We we take organs from one person and we fairly readily put them in another person and the other person Does it very well, you know? But a hundred years ago?

That would have been blasphemy. People would have been like, oh my God, you're a monster. You're a butcher. How could you possibly think of that? And So I think one of the things this movie makes me think is it's like when it gives you these visuals, I mean, maybe there's something to this, maybe there's something to the next generation or the next iteration of what the fixing of human suffering can look like. Um and

Much like the first kidney transplant or the first heart transplant. Maybe maybe we don't know everything that we think we know and maybe things are not as horrific as we think that they are.

Yeah, we also have this broader critique of, you know, what knowledge is deemed forbidden and by whom. Gosalvik's power to resurrect the dead is described as godly, you know, yet she's punished for possessing it. You know, Motherfly suggests that what made her threatening wasn't the power itself, but rather that a woman who lived outside, you know, social structures who practice these non-sanctioned healing, you know, possessed it. You know, her voice needed suppression.

Her story of maternal love was rewritten as a horror tale. You know, here We have the villagers' terror at the sound of the r the resurrected infant's cry, and it really exposes the arbitrary line between miracle and abomination. You know, it's the same act that would sanctify a man dawns a woman here. Well, you know, it it it kind of makes me think about

I guess perception. That's what I think about. And how perception can be well, I think for lack of a better term, twisted. Because in this day and age If I said to you one day, hey, guess what, T? I'm going to um invite children to my house and I'm gonna teach'em how to do things. Um and whether it's make a paper airplane or whether it's uh uh how to build something or you know, how to paint something or how to read or whatever else.

You automatically would be like, Uh-oh, time for a new co-host. That's what you would think. Okay? What you wouldn't think about is, oh God, there was a guy back in the day that did that, and he was like You know, he did a really good job and there was a whole generation of people that grew up on him and learned

reading and learned morality and learned treating people well and learned to fight racism and that would be who? Mr. Rogers, right? Okay. So perceptions have changed and I don't think people People automatically go to the bed. No. That's their first thought. People people never bother to think, well maybe this is okay. They just assume that it's gonna be bad. And

Well I as a human being I understand that cancer is bad. Um Kind of the the th the the slap in the face or the the twist of the paddle here is that it's like, well everything that Mickey has gone through in here has been terrible and we need to go out into the woods and do a and it's like, well, I mean, that's not necessarily true. You know, maybe everything that Mickey has been through has

kept her alive long enough and healthy enough to get to the place where she finds this thing. So there's a lot of I'm gonna call it mixed messages about modern healthcare because you could argue either point that, you know, oh she's been so harmed and so poisoned and it's like Okay, but she's also been alive a couple of years longer than she should have been, you know, given the given the prognosis. So That's kind of how modern medicine is and that's kind of how it evolves and

I think few people like the outcome when the outcome is bad. And when the outcome is bad it's easy to judge the outcome. Um But when the outcome is good, people just tend to celebrate, but they also forget about how they got there. They just celebrate the outcome, not the journey. And when the journey's bad, they poo poo the journey and they hate on the outcome. So Now is that human? I mean, you could argue that it is. Um, but at the same time, it's like

A as a people and as a society, we have to think harder and we have to be smarter about some of these things. And Thinking and being smarter involves one thing and one thing only. It involves taking emotion out of it. And We're people and none of us are fucking good at that. It's emotion emotion is the is the the first and only recourse that we have to almost everything. Um but it's also the thing that makes the least amount of sense and uh w with this film.

I see the intermixing intermixing of emotions and things that we're thinking and how it sways people to decision making and then ultimately how it sways their perception. And it makes it kind of interesting because it's like like with the dad, it's like, Well, this can't be good, right? And it's like, Well, what are you basing that on? It's like this is a thing you've never seen before and you have no idea what's gonna happen, but your first thought is, Well this isn't good, right? And it's like

Well how the fuck do you know? And when it's your kid and you've gone through every single possible thing, you sorta get to that that science moment where it's like, swing for the fence and see what happens and I think there's a lot of people that do this. But it's not something that we talk about in polite society where it's like, God damn, we tried every fucking thing. No, it's not that. It's just you're going to a funeral because somebody passed away.

And maybe something that is a as a side we need to spend some more time talking about so we can all appreciate If not the struggles, just the journey. Maybe not, it doesn't always have to be let's focus on the bad or let's focus on the good, let's just focus on the journey. When we have the revelation that, you know, Solvig is a necromancer, you know, which is, of course, a term that the film deploys with its full weight of cultural anxiety, it arrives through our motel reception.

You know, we're ground in supernatural dread in essentially local folklore and gossip. You know, there's this tale of how, you know, Solvig has tricked death and she's roamed the earth for centuries. You know, it's a formulation that initially reads as this sort of like malevolent cunning. But the film really systematically reframes this as tragedy rather than villainy. You know, we have this pile of stones that mark Solvig's grave and that represents, you know, centuries of accumulated fear.

You know, each stone is another generation's insurance uh against her return. And the locals continue just piling stones, not because they've witnessed her threat, but because, you know, they've really inherited this command to fear. You know, the g the grave becomes this monument to the violence and the collective memory. It's to the way communities really calcify their cruelties into these traditions.

Well I mean I I've always thought and this is from it A a plethora of of knowledge bases, but it's been from friends who play D D, it's from some of the zombicide games that I play. I've never seen a necromancer honestly as a bad thing. You know? You hear the term and especially as horror people you're just like, ooh, whoa, that's a necromancer. But At its core, a necromancer is just somebody that seeks knowledge. That's really what it's about. And

You can get into the into the the the he said she said about a young necromancer versus an old necromancer and what level of knowledge I know. Um I I'm Literally unzipping my pants and letting my nerd out here. Just so you know. So you might just have to take it. I'll buy you dinner later. Um

But there is an underworldly thing to it, right? There's not uh if you if you call the earth the line and you call uh the up heaven and the down hell We're we're playing more in the hellscape and that's just kind of what the Minecraft answer does. And I don't think this movie shies away from it at all. I think they between the decomposition, which is something that a necromancer uses. They use they use like flesh and decay and it's all things that become part of their arsenal. Um

But they also have powers, right? They have powers to to divinate and powers to deceive if they want to. And When a movie just flat out says someone's a necromancer, I think it's a bold thing because basically what they're saying is I'm giving you a character, but I'm not gonna give you all the details and I'm gonna let you figure it out. And that can be a slippery slope. Now, that said, they had Toby Poser, so they were pretty much golden from the start because

She can play anything from a hot dog salesman to God. And I would I would buy it and I would love it. Right? But she has a way about her and between The way she speaks and the way she's able to just deliver even the most banal sentence and it's still just impactful to her facial features, the way she looks, the power in her eyes. I I mean she's

Oddly enough, she's in the perfect role for a movie that she wrote and directed. Who knew? Um But at the same time their their use of the of the character and then calling it a necromancer is is brilliant because these are people that understand how to do it and and understand how to like to play it up. And

They don't shy away from any of what a necromancer could be. And all too often in movies it's like, this is a necromancer, but then it just does like one thing and it's b it does the necromancer thing and then it moves on and it's boring. This is a multifaceted character. Does from what the world knows about necromancy does everything that you would expect, and then a couple of extra things.

Yeah, we have this moment when Mickey wakes up to find Solvik cutting over her abdomen. And you know, usually it seemed like this employs work inventions only to well in this case subvert them. You know, here we anticipate violation, consumption, sacrifice, you know these standard prices of supernatural bargains.

But instead it's really a scene of transformation. You know, Salvik isn't extracting payment, but she's performing the surgery. You know, she's removing the malignancy and she's reshaping it into the infant that she was denied. No, it's an operation that literizes, you know, really the central metaphor of this movie, you know, what kills one person might give life to another. If only we're willing to see death not as an end-in, but as material.

And, you know, with the flashbacks, you know, we do get the revelation in regards to kind of like the origin story of Solvig. Um, and really that's kinda like the film's moral and thematic fulcrum. You know, at one point she had saved a pregnant woman whose, you know, stillborn child would have killed her, you know, asking only to keep the dead infant in exchange. No, a bargain that the desperate locals had accepted.

But this pact really adheres to, you know, horse transactional logic. Yet Solvik's terms seem almost unreasonable. Or almost reasonable. You know, she requests what they cannot use, what would otherwise just rot in the ground. No her crime isn't violating the agreement, but she succeeds beyond its terms. She's able to resurrect this child,

And it's cry, which, you know, should represent hope, you know, this new life. You know, it's the triumph over death, but instead it's it incites terror within, you know, the village here. And how do they respond? You know, they exposed a lie at the heart of their bargain. They never, you know, intended to honor it because they never truly believed that she possessed such power. You know, her success renders her intolerant.

Well so there's the balance, right? And the life that was never intended to be. And I know that there's so much talk and so much uh discord about, you know, heaven, hell, souls, all these other things. And But I think with the the giving of the infant Whether these people want to admit it or not, it's it's another one of those evolutions of the medical practice. You know, now did it work out perfectly? No, it didn't, okay? But

Like we said, the first kidney transplant didn't work out perfectly either. And so it's i i it's this evolution and if you're going to be a person who is going to take a a specific science. Um And you're going to try to evolve it into the next thing? There there's a period of time where you're going to be viewed as a lunatic, you're going to be viewed as a heretic. That's just how it works. And and ultimately the people who are willing to view or to undergo that scrutiny

Um, and that scorn and just take it and push forward. Those are the people that, you know, Cure polio. Invent penicillin. Okay? Uh understand radiation. Yeah, I it and all too often those people They're met with skepticism and they're met with uh uh, you know, uh scorn and and and laughter and things like that.

But in the end, uh everybody, and when I say everybody, it in general society as a whole benefits from these things. And when it comes to something like this I think the beauty of it is in the end, is that they show us that there's some legitimacy to it, but they also show us that people are not ready to understand.

And I think that's the beauty of it. You know, it's like, yep, th th this thing just happened. Do we get it? Nope. We don't get it. And I think we often mistake our lack of understanding. um for a lack of reality. That's what we say. We say, just because I don't understand it means it didn't happen. And in our present day society, if I don't

You know, where people don't they don't believe it if it wasn't filmed or they they don't believe it if it's not fully documented. Um, or well if you're just A fucking moron and you can't see the writing on the wall, the things that are right in front of your face. And when it comes to things like medicine, I can't think of a field that is more fully documented than the things that happen in medicine, right? I mean

If you go to the hospital for something, it is so documented that you get an itemized bill where it shows you that you're paying sixty seven dollars for a fucking aspirin, right? That's just how it is. And but when we have th things like this that are They're Frankenstein level what the hell, right? And When there's no way to quantify it, no way to understand it, it's it's it's verboten and it can't be real and it's something for the insane or something for the crazy and

Uh well I'll admit there's there's some crazy things that happen in the world. Um you know there are some things that They're not necessarily crazy, they just lack understanding. And I I I think this movie's a great metaphor for that, where it's like, maybe take a step back And forget what you think you know and just lean in and pay attention.

This movie really just forces us to sit, you know, with the horror of what follows, you know, we have this moment when, you know, they separate mother and child. You know, what do they do? They burn the infant alive while Solvig watches on just screaming. And you know, the Adams family really refuses to asceticise, you know, this violence or provide any sort of like cathartic revenge. You know, here we simply witness maternal anguish denied even the consolation of shared death.

You know, the villagers bury Solvig alive and begin this multi generational project of keeping her in tune. This is punishment. Uh it it really exceeds mere execution. You know, it's erasure. You know, the attempt to unmake her so thoroughly that even death won't grant her peace.

But really the film's judgment arrives not through dialogue but through uh juxtaposition. You know, Saul Big Who resurrects the dead versus villagers who burn an infant alive. You know it really asks, like which act is truly monstrous? And refuses to let us retreat into comfortable answers about supernatural transgressions.

You know, is it we have like the devil in plain sight observation and it you know, it cuts precisely to z this recognition. The real evil isn't witchcraft. It's the violence that communities inflict to preserve their sense of order. And with the climactic transformation, you know, it really represents the film's most audacious gesture. You know, here we have Solvig removing Mickey's tumor. And it literally transforms it into an infant.

It's an image that fuses body horror with profound tenderness, you know, it's disgust with desire, it's pathology with creation. And it's really an image that resists easy interpretation precisely because it just refuses to choose between these oppositions. You know, on one level, it's grotesque. You know, we have a cancer becoming the flesh, you know, disease birth and life. And our medical and cultural condition tells us that this is wrong. It's unnatural. It's it's it's impossible.

Yet the film asks, you know, why? You know, if Solvik possesses power over death and transformation, if the tumor is, you know, cellul cellular tissue, if Mickey wanted it removed regardless, what makes this act more unnatural than chemotherapy's controlled poison? No, it's transformation exposing how arbitrary our categories of natural and unnatural actually are.

Oh Jesus Christ. Okay. Wow. That's a fun place to leave me. Um, you are such a laureate. Good for you. Uh it makes my drunken ramblings seem like a like what am I doing here? So I I think in the end i when you think about things, um because one of the things that they really kind of show you is like the human sacrifice and almost

In one level, the frivolity of human sacrifice, right? You you are think about the earliest peoples and how they sacrificed. you know, to a god for whatever it may be, whether it was rain or it was healthy crops or it was uh whatever the hell it may be. And at the same time, not s really seeing a human being for the value that they were. The the fact that they may grow up, they may be become a person, they may mate and they make may make more people and they might make

a genius who was able to take their society and evolve them to the next level of things. And So it was both this this higher level of deity thinking, but also this very simpler level of well, not really having the forethought to go through and to do things. And with Especially I mean and let's be honest here, watching the the the the burning the infant alive thing, that was kinda hard to watch. You know, and it's

Being the horror fans that we are, there's not too much that we see that's hard to watch. That was difficult to watch. And I I I will praise this family for putting us in a place where we're kicked back on our heels and just been like poop. Like uh the that's kind of a holy shit moment in this movie. And but it also sort of makes you think. At least if you're a thinking person, it makes you think. And

There are so many social inequities that we could bring into the conversation, especially with that moment. And I don't want to get into the why. I think everybody knows what I'm talking about. But it starts to make you and I hate to break the word down to this, but it talks about it i it's a value question. And if you're going to question the value and you're a thinking person, you have to question morality at the same time. And it's not strictly a continuation of the species. It is

for lack of a better term, it's a greater good. And with our main character, there's definitely A survival piece of it.

But then uh the one thing that I'm still a little confused about with this movie, and this is this is gonna sound Fucking terrible. Uh not the first time I've said that, but just so so hear me out. That so if What I saw in the film was we have taken this thing out. It's gone. You're going to be fine. Fine being relevant, right? Um but what I also saw was that our main character, Mickey, and again, this is what I saw, is never going to be able to procreate after this.

So have we saved the one at the cost of what could potentially be the many? And that is a question that I think has haunted humanity through time. It's you know The simple train question. It's like, do you change the train on the tracks to save one or do you save five? And It depends on what your brain tells you is the right thing, which depends again on your morality, which depends on how you were raised. Did you did you go to church? Did you not go to church?

And then it's just like, oh fuck. I I you can't even there's so many variables that it's almost it's it's almost It's an equation that is so long that most people can't even get to the end, so the answer doesn't matter. You just do what you're gonna do in the moment. And Like most of their movies.

If you pay attention and you follow along, the watches are complicated, right? It asks you a lot of questions both about the characters that you're watching and then also about yourself as you're going. And that probably is the brilliance of a lot of their films is that they make you not look so much outward as they make you look inward.

And to simplify it, it's the what would I do in that moment question. And I honestly think it's only when you start asking yourself those questions, what would I do in the moment, that is when you truly start to live as a person. When you start getting those answers, there's some that you might not like. And that's not the worst thing. That isn't the worst thing. It's okay to answer a question truthfully and go. But on the scale, it it it's might it might not be perfect. Um

But that isn't the goal, right? The goal is to get through the question, to answer it, and to get on to the next question and to learn as you go and to get to a place where you can answer most of the questions fairly well most of the time.

Perfection and I know you and I have talked about this, perfection's a myth, right? There's no such thing. There's no such thing as answering because you could be asked the same question on a Monday and on a Friday and the answers would be different and The morality clause could be different both days too.

Just kinda depends, right? And people so often want to try to take things and pigeonhole them into these easy to answer little bite sized packages where you just know what to do all the time. And I honestly think that we do that as people because as as much as our species has evolved in technology and our ability to do things and I mean everything is punch a button and it's self-served. We as a people in our ability to adapt to a situation we've gotten really bad at.

We we think there's a a a quick one-shot answer for everything and there just isn't. And as soon as we have to think, we just panic and we would just want to blame somebody else. Um in the end with this film I think the glorious part of it is when we get to the end and it's like The establishment's been baffled, been turned on its ear, and the person who has been subjected to all these things for all these years.

When it w when when basically told we're gonna we're gonna do all this stuff all over again just to see what's going on that person just goes, No. I'm done with this. I I don't want any any part of your further examination It does two things. It it it shows that a person can be strong and a person can draw the line. And it also shows that a person can be completely and utterly selfish and not think of anybody else but themselves. And the reality is both are okay.

Yeah really uh what Mickey you know deems harmful, you know, Solvig is able to transform into beauty. You know, the deal that they have isn't Faustian, it's Glabert. And this movie really has, you know, central concerns, whether it's about belief, evidence, knowledge. So, you know, we got this moment when Mickey awakens fully healed. Her abdomen is showing no wound despite, you know, the blood that's, you know, evident of the surgery.

You know it's a paradox that's simultaneously you know present in absence of proof, and it mirrors the film's broader, you know, epistemological stance. You know, Jake and Mickey's decision to go excavate Sobig's grave, you know, really represents this need for material confirmation, you know, they remove the stones and they dig down to to discover the skeletal remains, you know, of a mother clutching an infant.

You know, it's a tableau that, you know, confirms the supernatural events while also proving that Solvig has finally found her peace. You know, she was able to hold her child again. You know, she fulfilled her purpose. And she could finally be at rest. You know, her scream at the pile of the stones, you know, nobody could stop a mother, really resonates as both triumphant tragic.

So when we have this, you know, medical follow-up, you know, we we do kind of like have this sharp critique of, you know, institutional authority. You know, as you said, you know, Mickey's doctor, they want more tests, they want more verification, more proof, but Mickey refuses. You know, the film doesn't present this as anti-scientific irrationality, but it's just a rejection of treating her body as perpetual evidence.

you know, herself as a guinea pig for scientific curiosity. You know, she knows that she's healed. She's felt it. She's lived it. You know, she bore witness to it. You know, the first round of tests confirmed it, so it's like why must she continue submitting to this sort of like validation?

You know, it really shows her evolution. You know, she's learned to trust her own knowledge of her body over external authorities' demands for proof. You know, being with Solvig taught her, you know, the importance of believing. You know, which the film really frames not as, you know, naive faith, but as epistemic self determination. You know, she's claiming the right to define her own wellness rather than allowing these institutions to endlessly defer certainty.

Well, validation is not a unfamiliar thing to just about anybody. And it doesn't really matter whether it's with your family or with a friend. It's something that we all as people we become trained to seek. I I'm guilty of it. You are guilty of it. The thing that we often forget is that we we get up in the morning Seeking to win. That I think is the the baser level thing that we're all trained to do.

The thing that we often forget is that if we're able to wake up the next morning, we've already won. What happens in between is fucking gravy. You know, there's gonna be a day where either me or you we're not gonna wake up one morning. And what I would hope for both of us is that the previous day We did everything that we could do to feel like we were winning. And almost exclusively, not at the expense of somebody else. We just did what we do.

And again, the end of this movie is I think Mickey, the character, finally realizing. Like, this is the first day I get to go out and just do what I'm gonna do. I don't have to be subject or subjected to anybody else or anybody else's whims and desires. I can just go out and do. And you know what? We're all gonna have days

Where you know, you get up in the morning and you don't accomplish a whole hell of a lot. It happens. And it's okay. And you're gonna have days where you go out and you do things And you go to bed exhausted and you still feel like you didn't do enough. That's also okay. The the key to life, and I think this movie tells you with the births and the deaths and the burnings, the key to the whole thing is balance. And not every single day is going to be perfectly balanced and and learning that

You can tip the scale one direction or the other. But you as a person have the ability to find the middle ground. And if you have one day where you don't get out of bed until noon, But then in the next couple of days you get up early, you go out and you do your shit. It's okay. You know? We it We live in a society now where everybody is so fucking judgmental about every mother fucking thing that people

that don't know who they are and that they have no influence over for some reason care about. Which is uh you know me and the whole social media thing. Most of it just baffles me because I don't give a shit. And When I say that to most people I know, they're like, Well, what do you mean? Well I just don't care. Well, how can you not care? Well, because I care about what I do. You know? I mean, I I th uh like I think about I think about like the relationship that you and I have.

And how we share things about movies, we share things about our lives, we we send things to each other in the mail, you know, and there's the occasional time where I'm like And I'm like, What the fuck? Why isn't he responding? What the fuck is he doing? And I start to lean into that place where I take it personally. And I'm and then I start to feel a little bit of like, oh

And then for the most part, I'm always able to draw myself back to like, you know what? This isn't personal. He's living his life. Okay. I know that we're friends. I know that when he sees this or has a minute, he'll respond. But then there's that little voice, well he's not responding right now though. So he's an asshole. Fuck him. And it's like, no, no, that's not, that's not what's happening.

He might be taking one of his parents to the doctor. He might be out with a a friend seeing a movie. Might be out with one of his buddies getting some dinner. And and who am I to say that he shouldn't do that? I'm not anybody to say that. You he's living his life, so I think with the Adams family in general, in the way that they approach movies, they have this this super both altruistic and also bleak approach to life.

And it's because I think they understand balance. And when they tell us a story I mean if you look at If you look at the deeper you dig, if you look at Hellbender, um, if you look at where the devil roams, if you look at this movie You get to the end of the movie, and almost exclusively, every single one of them is back to where they're back to zero.

It it this is boom, zero. Go and see what you can do. And there's a big piece of me that really appreciates that because that is life and that's every single day. Every day that you wake up, you're back at zero. Do what you're gonna do today. And

Now that I'm back to loving this movie and I have to adjust my score, god damn it. Um Yeah, they these people they understand a lot more about life than I give'em credit for and they tell good stories and even if they're a little bit maybe too into the witch's brew and maybe the frog's legs and things like that, um They they stuck they can still speak to me.

Yeah, really the Adams family is corrupted this film that just respects War's capacity for Catrique while expanding its emotional range. No Mother of Flies proposes that Horror can, you know, encompass not just fear but grief, you know, not just dread but want and not just body counts but body transformations that r resist easy moral categorization.

No, it's a film that trusts its audience to sit with discomfort, you know, to question our own assumptions. And to recognize that sometimes the witch in the woods is less monstrous than the stones that we pile on her grave. I would argue that most of the Addams Family movies, while there's definitely a death component, um And depending on which movie you look at, it's a lot of them, well, most of them, honestly, are either about the other side.

And the other side being it could be a parent and being the other side of grief or um it could be Um, a prepubescent well maybe a little bit more than that, like teen discovering the other side of the manturation. Um or in this case somebody who had what was described as a terminal illness and then came out the other side. So

There's always a barrier in their movies and they really like breaking through the barriers. The fun part is they find a unique and creative way to do it with each one of them. It's never the same. It's never the same. Uh here we go, just hook up the bulldozer we're gonna crash through this wall. It's never the same. It's all done. I I go back to the deeper you dig. The main c you know, the character

The daughter fucking died. Okay. She was dead. And now was it was she murdered? No, she wasn't murdered. Um, but she was still dead and she was still dead at the hands of another and that one came full circle to, you know, Hi mom. I mean and that that moment in a movie, if that doesn't make your asshole pucker, I don't know what's going to you know, you were you're a stone cold killer at that point and good for you. Um But yeah, these these folks that they have a unique ability to

to put you in a place where you you get to feel things that you either never wanted to or didn't think you could feel. Um and this one is probably the deepest dive, I think, into Uh the matriarchy. Um, and what it is to fuck, I'm umming again. You're supposed to tell me what I'm umming. You're supposed to be like wave your hands and go, stop umming, you dumb motherfucker. Hey, I doesn't really bug me that much, to be honest.

Oh. Well I hear it though, and my wife points it out and I I have a wife who's kind of a pain in the ass. Anyway.

As they deep dive into this, this is probably the deepest they've gotten into the relationship between mother and daughter and how one even if it's over a period of time, it r can really affect a person. I really think that they have tried They've tried to show a bunch of different versions of it. I really think that they've in this movie they've talked about everything from

Basically a a stillbirth. They talked about abortion, if you read between the lines. They talked about um adoption if you read between the lines. And so I think it's a really great just kind of the spread of life and the things that can happen and how you mostly have to Not necessarily adapt and overcome, but you have to face what's in front of you head on and decide how you're going to handle it. Because for all those

Three things that I mentioned, once you're up against the wall, at least two of those things are still an option. And then if you decide on those things after that, One of them's still on. So you see what I'm saying? And it's so it's a it it's it's kind of a pyramid of life in a lot of ways. And Once you get to the top, you're at the top, and once you've committed, you've committed. And if you're gonna do it, you gotta do it. You don't have a choice. Um shit.

Anyway, so w once you're there, you gotta live it, you've gotta love it. And I don't know, I think I think ultimately I really like how they approach life. They understand that it's gonna be as bleak as you decide it is, or it's going to be as good as you decide it is, but you're the one that decides.

Absolutely. So looking ahead, uh, we will be getting back to our phobias. Uh I know you and I have been You know, kinda like throwing out ideas there. We got uh We've honestly planned quite a bit already for for the year. I would say we have at least four months fully fleshed out, uh upcoming. So which is a lot. Uh'cause normally we're just like

We're figuring out the day of recording, like hey, what are we doing next? Tuesday. Shit, what are we gonna do? Um, so with February we are doing Terophobia and the fear of monsters. Now I will note Uh our next recording is gonna be pushed back a little bit, uh, but we'll basically have you know, a Sunday into Wednesday recording. Uh so our next recording is set for, I believe, February eleventh, uh, which is gonna be on feast.

which was released in 2005. Really great monster movie. Uh we got I would say we have arguably two of the most underrated monster movies and then probably two of the more popular monster movies. Uh not not just of the eighties, but ever. Ever. Yes. No, I would completely agree. Yeah, it's it's funny when you'cause be you say monster movie and it's like I think most people

There's a monster people tend to lean towards when you say monster movie, right? And in my head a monster movie is almost exclusive to be a Frankenstein movie. That's just where my brain goes, good, bad or otherwise. And the more we talked about it, it was like, oh well, wait a minute. And it when you start picking through the archives of your brain, like for feast is mine, I was like Oh yeah, yeah. Like have we done this before? Nope. And I'm like and the movie is just

It's so bad, it's good, it's so good, it's bad, but then we're back to it. It's so bad, it's so good. It it it it runs the gambit in there. And then like for that one, uh the other one I I picked was the thing and That's one of those movies I've never gotten an opportunity to talk about. Which after five years of doing this seems like like how didn't that happen? But it hasn't. And uh

I think it's gonna be fun getting to the final question in that movie, like, you know, who's the alien?'Cause I I have some thoughts and most of those thoughts revolve around I don't have the first fucking idea, but it's still it's fun to talk about. Uh Going forward to that, I mean yeah, we've

It's it's almost like we've decided that We should be a little more prepared and like be pretty good at this because we have we've got a pretty full schedule fleshed out and that's you know, around me having to travel for my dumb job and the occasional vacation. But we've we've got it all worked out. I mean this is It's almost like this shit is on purpose. It's kind of getting fun, you know? And and theater watches, I'm still five for five for the year. So I'm on it.

Um for better or worse. Well, i exactly. And I I'm thinking I might save send help to next week'cause I think I can Long as it's in the theater I can call that six for six and not have to watch uh the strangest chapter, Who really gives a fuck? Um or the death ass whistle or whatever the fuck it's called'cause that that just looks like shit. But Hey, you know, maybe it will be a surprise. Maybe it's a maybe it's a gem. Maybe it has a a great story and great acting or

One young lady with the perfect pair of boobs. Well it could happen. What what I will say is there is one movie in particular that everyone is talking that it's too similar to that I also did not like. Oh, let's see. Is it like the ruins or something or no? A lot of people have been comparing it to Wish Upon. Oh, really? Yeah. Great. Yeah, so. Okay, so I'm gonna I'm gonna push out send help to next weekend and those other two movies can uh

Go the way of the fucking dodo. You know what it's still early in the year, sometimes you gotta just take what you can get. Uh we're getting closer to a place where A fresh Thursday is gonna be easier and easier, but it's been a little bit slam pickings. Yeah. Uh I think so far so good. I think March is probably gonna be where we're gonna be really spoiled.

Obviously the um festival circuit has been kicking. A lot of undertone early previews have been happening, a lot of buzz about it. I don't want to dive into it, but If the audio snippets that I've heard sound very promising and I'm really curious to see how like what the finished result is going to be just because it is just really different for the genre.

Um so time is gonna tell on that front, but you know, we got some uh some pretty big movies coming out in theaters. Definitely go out, see whatever you can, uh whether it's a small, independent Self finance movie or Sam Raimi's return to the genre? But either way, like there's uh there's still enough out there for us to enjoy. And uh, you know, we're still above a six average. And uh we are at the end of January, so who saw that coming? Definitely not me.

Oh hell though, I think I'm seventeen movies in, which honestly for January is a pretty fucking good start too. And uh yeah, the scores are up. Uh We we did get a couple of pretty good gifts early in the year. And that's not something that usually happens. I mean, we usually get to the end of January and we're both like, so my score's one point two and

I think I have I wanna say I have three nines on my list. Three in January. Mm-hmm. I uh that just doesn't happen. So as much as we talk about horror, maybe the the typical schedules and all the things. You know, January is usually such a dead zone and maybe those things are changing and and all for the better. It's not we don't have to wait for the the traditional summer blockbusters because

The thing that's always baffled me about the summer blockbusters it's like it's summer. I wanna be outside. Why is this a good time for movies, Hollywood, you dumb motherfuckers? Um You know when I don't want to be outside? Uh in winter in Minnesota when it's 18,000 below fucking zero and everything's dead, okay? Maybe put some fucking movies out there and you dicks. Yeah, I'm I'm ranty, but you get my point. So

We're off to a it's an abnormal start. It doesn't make any sense. It honestly doesn't make any sense. Um but I'm here for it. So what the fuck? Well let's just let's just keep going. Yeah, we've got I think I have my theater watches planned, so I think at this point, I think I have a theater watch up until the middle of April. I'm like

Huh. So let's see how long I can keep the streak going. You know, I'm gonna I'm gonna save send help I think for next weekend'cause I have to travel this weekend. Um but I'm still counting it. So don't take that from me'cause I'll hate you forever. Yeah, you just said you're gonna be in the theater every week. You know, didn't seem gonna be a new release, so

Valid point. I like you and your fucking loopholes. That's awesome. Uh I I try to see a new one. It's I uh but you know, there's a lit there's not gonna be a new horror movie every single week for fifty two continuous. It's just not gonna happen. So If two if two come out and I see one week, one the next week, that counts.

Fuck Vegas and its odds. I'm gonna win this shit. Okay. I'm gonna do I'm gonna do it. The uh take the over,'cause I promise you I got it. Uh yeah, anyway. No, off to a good start, lots of good movies. Um Couple that it's so funny that you said the other when I posted my score for Iron Lung

You said that it took another video game adaptation to dethrone, another video game adaptation for the worst movie so far. And for you, yeah. Yeah. Well a and we were back to that when I go to Iron Lung. I still don't in my head have it as a video game thing. I just it was just a movie'cause I didn't know about all the background and who made it and whatever. I wanna say it's on sale for like three or four dollars on Steam right now. As a game, Iron Long? Yeah.

And is it the same as the movie where I have to p night goddamn, now you got me interested. I'm just saying Great, thanks. Now I'm gonna be a fucking wake all night playing a shit ass video game. That's probably not very good. But I hey, like I said. The movie itself was lacking in some places.

It did have some good things. It did. There were some good things in the movie. So I think if they make another one, maybe they step it up a little bit. I I I think ultimately what they don't understand is if you're gonna make a movie that's two hours and seven minutes long, it has to be more than an hour and fifty-seven minutes of the same guy doing the same thing in the same setting.

Okay. I like I've gotten to I've gotten to be something of an old man. I can't even be in the bathroom that long anymore. I I eventually get bored and I want to go do something else. Still, the movie had some cool visuals. The sub itself There wasn't there was an elegant simplicity to the sub and to the controls of the sub and what the controls of the sub told you about what was happening in a scene. That was pretty cool. Whoever did that, thumbs up.

The guy just talking and bitching the whole time about basically the same thing. Oh Jesus Christ. Just unlock the r h hatch to the roof and I'll jump off and call it fucking good. Um

But you know what? Potential for the future. So we'll see. Right on. Uh well the only thing I will say about Sendhelp is there is a resuscitation scene in this movie that is so gross out horror that it's it's one of the most memorable parts of the movie. And uh you'll you'll you'll you'll know when it happens. Uh something tells me I probably can't miss it just from the way you described it. Um

The the fact that you're you're you're on an island with the boss that you hate, I I w I was already there. I was already there. I will I will put on Rachel McAdams bra and strut around in her drawers and be the badass bitch. I will do it'cause

We we we've all had a boss that we hate. Now, fortunately I'm in a place where right now I have a boss that I just love. I love my I have a new boss, a newish boss, and I just love my new boss. She's just great. Um, but we've all been there, so It's not an unfamiliar territory. I think we can all get behind it, so still I might save it for next weekend just so I can keep my streak going. Yep. I would highly advise it just based off of what the other options are. So

Uh but yeah, so with that being said, guys, again our next episode will be recorded on February eleventh. Uh that will be on Feast. Again, Tuesday, Thursday nights, watch parties in the Discord at bit.ly forward slash handle with scare. And those are hosted at 7.30 p.m. Pacific Time. But for now, that will do it for us here tonight on Hando with Scare. And we'll see you back for our next episode. You guys have a good night.