S3 E16: Using Poetic Imagery and Techniques in Verse Drama

This is Hamlet to Hamilton Exploring Verse Drama. I'm your host, Emily C.A. Snyder. You're listening to Season 3, Episode 16. The uses and abuses of poetic imagery in verse drama. Friends, welcome back. We are winding down season three of of Hamlet to Hamilton. Season three has been all about soliloquy.

Uh, especially in the early part we were looking specifically at different types of soliloquies, going through Shakespeare's canon, as well as looking at what we can discover from musical theater. about how soliloquy soliloquy works, different types of soliloquies. And then in this second half we've talked a little bit more generally about how to write soliloquies, which since soliloquies

are so often used to expose character. We've therefore also been talking about different ways to show character, whether that's through meter or through line break. We had a whole mini-series on that. Um Or as we're going to be looking at today, the use of poetic imagery.

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With that, let's dive into today's episode. It's something that I have felt keenly as someone who both has has written verse and dramaturged a lot of verse and directed um and and had to give voice to as an actor. And it's kind of the poetic part of poetic drama. So let's define some terms. Now, on this podcast, we tend to talk about verse drama, as in we are looking at how the formatting of verse can help you write your drama. Verse is not necessarily poetry, as we define it on this podcast.

Poetry or something which is poetical is a style, just as prosaic is a style, just as rhetorical or nonsense or colloquial, these are all styles of using language. lyrical styles, uh, which again tend towards the poetic So poetic, uh, at least for our purposes, is when you use heightened language to sort of evoke uh feelings, to try to uh put words around the ineffable.

used it uses quite a few ornamentations. So we might be using imagery, metaphor, simile, we might be using rhyme, we might be using strict repeated meter, we might be using literation, consonants, assonance. um all sorts of different ornamentation that we might put on in our case a line of verse, but again you can have poetic

bullet formatting, poetic shared lines, poetic paragraph formatting, right? You can use ornamentation and heightened language to try to put words around the ineffable in any formatting that you like. We are accustomed to seeing poems in lines of verse. But uh poems, as we know from prose poems, although I prefer to call them paragraph poems, but uh as we know from what is typically called prose poems, uh poems can be in paragraph form. All sorts of different choices there.

But One of the things that has persisted, particularly for people who write verse drama, that is, write With intentional line endings that do not correspond to either sentence structure, to grammar, to syntax, to just making a margin on the page, right? So our definition of verse. is a type of formatting which has an intentional line break. It's not defined by the margin, that's what a paragraph is, it is defined by a line break.

And since verse and poetry are in uh certainly in the Anglophone mind Hugely connected, right? If you see an intentional line break most of the time you expect it to be poetical of some sort. If you see something in paragraph form, you expect it to be prosaic in language. We have conflated style and formatting.

And this is important when we think about the whole history of verse drama. And this is gonna segue very nicely into season four, wherein we are bringing on the behind uh Shakespeare podcast. to walk us through the late medieval through the early modern and right up to uh to when the Commonwealth took over in the sixteen forties and the theaters all shut down in England.

So we're gonna be covering from like the 1250 or so up through about 1640 with the Behind Shakespeare podcast looking at all sorts of wacky verse. that was used. So keep an ear out for that. Though a good deal of it does occur before the appearance of Shakespeare on the scene. The name of the podcast is in fact The Beyond Shakespeare. Not Behind, Beyond. Apologies.

Moving on. Uh but in the history of Anglophone verse drama then People have used the terms verse drama and poetic drama, or a verse play and a poetic play interchangeably. As though if you put an intentional line break, clearly all the words on your verse are poetic. Now, this is not helped by the fact that people who write verse dramas and know they're writing verse dramas, which I presume is all of you.

um tend to do so because they want to in fact write not just verse dramas, but poetic verse drama. So we're going to be tackling that today. What is the poetry of it all? We've talked about line endings, we have talked about where to place the soliloquy, we've talked about what characters. why characters might actually have a soliloquy. We've talked sort of all these different techniques, but we haven't actually talked about what if your character is poetic? What does that look like?

So that's what we're going to be uh looking at today. We're going to be looking primarily at uh my two faves, Shakespeare and T. S. Elliot. I... I kept debating bringing in some highly can contemporary verse plays. Um we are recording this in uh the year of Our Lady 2023. Uh it's the beginning of February when I'm I'm laying down this track. And uh I there I mean there's this wonderful proliferation of verse drama and verse dramatists right now. It's really exciting.

Um but because of that I really didn't want to call anyone out. on th on what we're gonna be talking about today, which is basically the uses and abuses, particularly of poetic imagery, since that is incredibly common. So that is why I am sticking with good old Shakespeare and Elliot, because they can handle it. They can take me ranting about them doing it poorly or them doing it well. Okay. Um Yeah, so but but as we go through, I do want you to think about your own characters.

and think about the language that you've used And the big question really is when when is using poetic imagery appropriate for your show?

Alright, so We have defined poetry, we've defined verse, we've defined verse drama, kind of. We've defined poetic verse drama, kind of. The word that I haven't defined actually is drama. Right. So way back at the beginning of the season, I promised the like taxonomy of performance. And uh this goes a little bit into that. Basically, a performance is when one person stands in front of an audience.

in order to be viewed, basically. Presumably the actor should perform some act that the audience C's and that's the basis of performance. Um, if it's live, then uh it happens in the moment and then the moment's gone. If it's recorded, then it's recorded and you can view. uh the actor in whatever time period you are, but you're not viewing it simultaneous to the action.

Uh, it's a time shifted thing and obviously the performance is is caught in time as opposed to live performance where the time is ephemeral. With performance as well, you'll notice that while over all these seasons, I've talked about the three elements. of drama which are that's su the generative, someone writes it, the interpretive, someone You know, the caster crew comes in, they interpret it. And the receptive the audience takes in the finished product.

I stand by that and uh the only caveat I would say is that the generative phase does not have to be written down, basically. Um, if the actor has the impulse to walk across the stage. then and while an audience member is there, then the actor who has the impulse and who walks across the stage generates the quote unquote text of the performance. The text being I have decided to walk across a stage and then enact.

That text, even though the text was never written down. Uh, and then the audience takes in that text, which is a performer has just walked across the stage. Okay. So a text can also be transmitted orally, as in cultures where you pass down the sort of ritual of what you're supposed to do. Um, with sign language, in fact, there are they don't write down what signs you're supposed to do if it if you're starting from scratch.

or even if you're interpreting Shakespeare into like ASL or BSL, American Sign Language, British Sign Language, so on, then uh you this is very cool. I learned this uh a few months ago here in Stratford. Um Uh you make a a video script. You film the sort of originator uh doing the signs and and that's what you learn. It's a video script, which is just awesome.

Uh, if the text is choreography, you're again learning through the body, right? There isn't necessarily a script. You might in fact reverse engineer a script, like if you've ever done fight choreography. where if it's a good fight choreographer, they make you write down your notes after you have learned. uh you're part of the fight so that you are creating um a textual sort of artifact script from what has been taught to you um physically the physical script.

Now again, I mean the choreographer may have written it down beforehand, um, but writing down a script is not necessary. When we are doing verse drama, we are saying the type of drama that we want to do is a drama that includes a script that is written in verse. And we're going to write in in verse. And if we say we want to do poetic verse drama, we're saying we want not only there to be a script and for it to be written in verse, but it to have a lot of poetical ornaments all over the place.

Now, drama is different from performance. Or at least it sort of as I am I am forming this so you're getting this a little bit earlier than than you might otherwise. Um, but basically there are different types of performances, right, that do different things. So There's uh what what we call drama. When I say drama, what I mean is a sort of story and character underlined by a philosophy, preferably, but a story and character first.

show, right? That it's all about plot points, what happens, who are the characters doing it, and maybe some sort of theme. That's what I call a drama. But you can write poetic verse. Let's see, narratives, which might be something where uh someone is performing. uh more like storytelling. And the idea is that, you know, you're you were meant to have a different experience. Um you can do poetic verse. I don't know, productions, experiences, events.

Where the language is perhaps more chaotic and it's not necessarily following a narrative, but it's like a series of poems that coalesce together. So it's much more about like vibes and theme, right? So that might be a poetic verse event, okay? And uh then you might have a poetic verse presentational type performance.

And that's what I think T. S. Elliott succeeded in, for example, in murder in the cathedral. And with that, the most important thing is actually your thought and the style in which you tell your thought. So you are presenting your thought. You're like you sort of happen to have characters. They might happen to have a plot point.

But the main thing that you're trying to do is like get your thought across in a in a performative way. Okay, so there are different types of performance in this podcast. In this podcast, I am specifically drilling down um on verse drama, on drama or on performances, I should say. That uses script.

That script is written in verse with intentional line endings, or at least a significant amount of it is written in verse with with um intentional line endings. Today we're gonna be talking out about poetic verse drama. And the drama itself is a specific type of performance, whether live or recorded.

where the performance is based on telling an immersive type story. There are characters, there is plot, there is theme, there may be spectacle around, um those sorts of ornaments maybe around the the theme may be important, but it's not hopefully overpowering to the point where it becomes a presentation, right? The poetry is present, the vibes are there, but the vibes are in service to the story. That

really important as particularly as we are talking about poetry. So let's stop. And I want you to think about what you are writing right now and ask yourself the actual fundamental question of if if you are writing a script. a written artifact, a script for performance. What sort of performance experience are you trying to give the audience? Are you trying to tell a drama? Are you trying to do an event? Are you trying to do a presentation? Right? Another way to think of that is.

Of these elements that can go into performance, which ones are the most important? Is plot important to you? Is character the most important part? Is your thought or the theme of the show the most important thing? And everything else serves that. Is music and poetry and the vibes the most important part of your show? Again, I'll go through them one more time. If you were to rank these one, two, three, and four.

And I realize that Aristotle has more and I'm lumping sort of the everything into vibes at the end. We could talk about that another day, but of these four elements, plot, character, theme, and vibes. Uh rank them one, two, and three and four. What is the most important? You are allowed, you are allowed to have two number ones and then like a two and a three. Okay. You're allowed to have two number ones if you want.

But rank these, please. Okay. So are you writing a story where the most important thing is the plot? What happens? Are you writing a performance where the most important thing is the exploration of character? Who these people are, what their experiences are. Maybe there's plot, maybe not. Are you most interested in theme in talking about some philosophical or sociological, religious, um observational?

Theme. Are you talking about some sort of theme? And that's the most important. Who cares if there's a plot? Who cares if there's characters? Are you most interested in vibes? in sort of the feeling and the experience And you know, maybe there's a theme, maybe like characters are in use, maybe something happens, but it's really about like the vibes and the experience, man. Okay.

So take a moment, pause this if you need to in order to rank those again. You're allowed to have two number ones. It's okay. Um it's it's almost inevitable, to be entirely frank. Uh and if you want to rank one of them as like totally uninteresting to you. You can do that too. For example, if you're going for a vibe speech. If you're doing like Cirque du Soleil, uh, you may not care about characters at all or theme.

Um, right? So it's okay to to put one as zero, it's okay to have two number ones, but sort of rank them. Alright. Now that you've done that, when we are talking about poetry. Poetry falls firmly not as plot, not as character, not even as theme. Poetry lives firmly in vibes. What does this mean? This means that if you are writing a drama where plot and character and a theme are like your top three words, like plot and character are both number one and then theme is number two, okay?

That makes vibes number three. And what that means is that Everything that you bring in thematically, and certainly everything you bring in to sort of like help the vibe, needs to be in service of the plot and the character. So if you're using poetry as your vibe, uh, whatever that means, in this case again, today we're gonna be looking primarily at imagery. So if you want to have this beautiful, poetic moment full of imagery.

And but you're mostly writing a a drama. You're writing something where the plot and the character are the most important things to get across. That's what the audience has come for, is to watch, you know, Macbeth kill a bunch of people. That's why they're in their seats. Like if there's poetry, cool. But really they just want bloodshed, okay? In that case, your what if you're using imagery and poetry, it needs to support.

your plot and your character. It needs to make sense that you stop and start talking in images. At this point in the plot Um, so for example, if like I don't know, I'm I'm gonna make a a d a drama. Uh I'm running for my life from the wild hunt, right? Sort of the Fay are after me and the green man is after me and I'm a poor peasant and I'm running for my life.

And uh but my my playwright decides that they want to write poetic verse and they forget that they're writing drama and they start writing vibes. And so this character who's like, I get away, I gotta get away. All of a sudden, like stops and soliloquizes about how beautiful yonder moon is, like while they're running. Or or as the the green man is like you know, the horned god is like

feet away, uh, that might not be the moment. Maybe you have the imagery before the wild hunt shows up in order to have like a moment of placidness. and everything's fine and then oh no we ran jump scare, the wild hunt is coming. Um, but it would be very, very, very silly to break the urgency of your plot, if your plot is important. in order to stop and show off your poetry. Right? Now, Contrast this again with our idea of a cirque de soleil event. If you're finding that you're wanting to write

um uh really much more to show off your poetry. Perhaps you are a uh a performance poet. and you get other friends together to sort of have a night. of vibes and perhaps in that case like theme is a little bit more important. like um all your pieces uh for example, um well those of you who are on Patreon can listen to my review of Glenn Maxwell's Corpse Lights, which was a collection of his poems, a poetry cycle, in response to the Victorian era, but talking like so using Victorian era forms.

in a modern context criticizing the current politics of Britain now. So using sort of height of empire poetry. being in conversation with that to talk about politics and Britain now. Okay. It was very cool. It was very good. I understand it's being retitled and it's going to be printed very soon. So I'm definitely gonna be getting me a copy and I'll let you know about that as as soon as it comes out.

But that wasn't about a ca wasn't about character, wasn't about plot. A couple of the poems had like characters in it and they had four performance poets on hand who were reading including Glenn, who was reading out the poetry. and you know, sort of dividing up characters If this particular poem happened to have a character, but those characters were a little ephemeral, right? They were in service.

Still to the event, to the poetry, to the theme of that particular poem. We weren't following them like we do in a drama. uh the character was serving the theme was serving the poem that happened to be performed at this event. Okay. Uh similarly. If you're trying to get a theme across, I'm thinking particularly of someone like Kay Tempest, for example. Uh, they are a brilliant uh and very well-respected young British performance poet. Uh, you can see a lot of their work.

on YouTube, actually K-Tempest, K-A-E, I believe, and then Tempest, like the Tempest. Um their work mixes music and sort of slam poetry, aesthetic, performance poetry, aesthetic. And because each poem behaves like a song. Um you you get sort of the political message and punch and theme of of each piece, right? That's the most important part.

And the rhythms that Kay chooses in the poetry, the language, Kay chooses the m the music, uh even the videographies, because many of them have music videos. Um is all the like vibe stuff is in service of the theme that Kay is trying to talk about. Kay is the character and might speak of another character the way that you would in a song. Um, but again, these are not characters we're we're following in a drama. Um there may be an event or two that happens in the poem.

over the course of the poem, but that's not the point. I'm not going to find out what happens next. I'm there to hear Kay's feelings about the world at large. the themes that they want to present. Okay. So as you're thinking of your own play. If you're going to, as we're going to talk about in the second half of this, If you are going to have poetic imagery, that is stopping and describing and trying to evoke.

the feeling you have about uh an idea or a sunset or whatever it may be, right? You're gonna be using images as your main ornament for your poetry. I want you to think when is this acceptable? How does this work best for the script I am trying to write? We are going to be looking on the other side of this at Elliot and at Shakespeare, and we're going to be looking specifically at their dramas.

Well, Elliot will be a little fudged, but we're gonna be looking at the dramas where plot is forward, and again, my interest is in helping you become a good verse dramatist, today a good poetical verse dramatist. Um, so I'm not necessarily as much focusing on if you want to do a thematic presentation, if you want to do a very vibes-based event. We're going to be talking about imagery in the service of drama.

Ray. Okay, with all that out of the way, and uh you can press pause as we're gonna go to a mid-show. Thank you, Colin. And you can give a think about what your own goals are. And think especially about a place where you have used imagery. And when we come back, keep that in mind as we go through what two giants of the poetical world did with their imagery. See you on the other side. It's time for an unhinged rant. Or is it?

Unhinged rants are when myself, Emily C. A. Snyder, just goes off on whatever it is that I am researching for you. And it is largely biased. It is very unscholarly. It is an extreme rant. It has a lot of profanity and it's a lot of fun. The first two Unhinged Rants are available for everyone on the main feed. They're about T. S. Elliot and Lord Byron. You can give them a listen. All the remaining Unhinged Rants, which will come out monthly,

are only for our patrons on Patreon. So if you would like to hear some unhinged rants, things that are perhaps a little bit less measured. Luxury. Then head on over to patreon.com slash Hamlet to Hamilton, and you'll get to hear all of the fire, fire flames from the side of my face. Unhanded!

Welcome back friends. Alright, so with all of those definitions out of the way, you know I love my definitions. I make no apologies for defining things. We are going to take a look first. at good old shaky baby. Okay. We're gonna be starting with uh a play that I I don't talk about a lot, mostly because um That's because I don't really like it.

We're gonna be talking about Antony and Cleopatra. I have been an Antony and Cleopatra. I was Enobarbis, which is like a really fantastic role, actually. And I loved my Antony and it was great acting opposite him. But also oh my stars is this play just way too long. And again, personally as an aromantic, I just wanna shake Antony and Cleopatra. I'm like, what are you doing? None of this is necessary. So This is this is not a play for me, but it is a really interesting play for poetry.

Among all of Shakespeare's plays, I would say that a very well part of Antony and Cleopatra's reputation. is that it contains uh just just so much spoken poetry that somehow feels justified. Um, as you can imagine, after this we're going to be looking at a Shakespeare piece of poetry that I do not feel is justified. So we're gonna be looking at two speeches by Cleopatra. Um, one is a speech, the second one I would call a drift soliloquy.

And uh I want you to hear when Cleopatra reaches for images. When she luxuriates in images. when she just speaks plainly. Okay? And something that I wanna point out about Cleopatra that actually w was pointed out to me when um I had the pleasure of watching uh Suzanne Malone, a very dear friend and fantastic Shakespearean uh that I know. Lucky me. Well, she was working uh the most famous Cleopatra speech, which we will be looking at in a second.

and pointing out uh just how sensual Cleopatra's language is as a person, and also how sort of throughout the entire play a little obscure that she reaches first for images, that she thinks in images. And I'm going to commend this because, first of all, for a character, um, So caught up in her passions, it seems appropriate for Cleopatra to sort of exist in the world a very passionate, very image-laden speech.

And The l the lovely thing too, though, as we're going to start here, is that Shakespeare is good enough, since this is one of his later plays, Shakespeare's good enough to know how to balance. When Cleopatra is just going to be a queen and there's no BS and when she will take the power in this case. to luxuriate in the images in which she thinks. All right. So This is, let's see here. This is Act 5, scene 2 of Antony and Cleopatra. I am beginning around line 59. And uh it if you

If you know this play, uh well, we're in act five of a tragedy, so lots of people are gonna die. And um I'm sorry, there there's there's a s okay, yeah no I'm gonna tell you. All right, so the first Antony and Cleopatra I ever saw was actually improvised Antony and Cleopatra. And it was at a Renaissance festival at the Tuxedo, um, at the Sterling Renaissance Festival in Tuxedo, New York.

many, many, many years ago. And um what they would do is they would drag up to the stage one vaguely unwilling participant. It was always a dad in like Bermuda short. And they had him mostly like walk around while they n narrated a sort of improv uh Sparks note version of Antony and Cleopatra. Um

You know, so he m he was messenger and they would call him on for things like that. Um, but whenever a major plot point would happen, the guy who is narrating would stop and go, but before Anthony did that, he said a uh rhyming couplet about and then he would turn to the audience and we'd yell out ridiculous things and um then the actor would have to, I don't know, woo Cleopatra with a rhyming couplet about Liana Helmsley's shoes, right? Okay.

Silly things like that. But uh at the very end, spoiler alert for this play, Cleopatra famously kills herself with an axe. sort of taking this snake and putting it on her bosom and uh letting it chomp down a little bit. And so in this improvised Renaissance festival version of Anthony and Cleopatra, they had like a beanie baby boa constrictor type thing.

I'm gonna tell you two of the couplets. And so uh Cleopatra is is about to, you know, hold it to her breast and kill herself. And the narrator turns to the audience and says, but before Cleopatra killed herself, She said a rhyming couplet about and someone called out Star Trek. And now most of the um Most of the rhyming couplets were very on the nose, right? So like the Leona Helmsley one, I remember was like, I don't know, it was something like,

Oh dear Cleopatra, I hope that you will see me and not merely want my show shoes like Leona Helmsley. And we'd all kind of groan. Okay, so. Cleopatra is about to kill herself. Someone has just yelled out that that she needs to do a couplet about Star Trek, and she stands up from her throne. She's got the asp beanie baby in her hand. And she looks to the sky and she goes, Now as my soul must leave my body. And we're all like, What? Body does not rhyme with Star Trek? What are you doing?

But she says now as my soul must leave my body, all I can say is be me up, Scotty. To this day, to this day, one of the best pieces of improv I've ever seen. But then so I mean the bodies are hitting the floor left to right again. Spoiler alert Cleopatra says that she's dead and then Antony kills himself and then Cleopatra's like Oh, I was just messing with you, Antony,'cause I was angry at you. Um, but I'll kill myself too, but she like also kills all her servants.

And um before that the the Romans are coming in saying, no, don't kill yourself. Um and she's like, yeah, right. You're gonna do terrible things to me if I keep living. So no thanks to you. Um and as Anthony's like taking forever to bleed out. Um, like I said, I'm sorry, it's not my favorite show, but as he's taking forever to bleed out, that's when Cleopatra, um Asks an asp to beam her up, Scotty. Great use of imagery. Anyway, so in the improvised version, I'll just tell you one more coupling.

In the improvised version, the dad wearing Bermuda shorts who's been walking around handing out messages and bringing up beanie baby boba constructors. for Cleopatra and whatnot. Um so Cleopatra's just died. And the narrator, uh, being the little sneak that he is, before uh the the dad in Bermuda shorts can leave says, but Bob decided that he was so sad he had to go too. And so he was gonna let himself be bitten by an asp. But before he did, Bob said a rhyming couplet about

And so this this innocent guy that clearly was dragged there by his family was not in garb, was not into this rent renaissance thing, but you know, was like he was a good sport. So someone yells out pooper scooper. So poor Bob has to Create for the first time possibly in his life a rhyming couplet on the spot, uh rhyming with pooper scooper before he dramatically kills himself with a beanie baby.

Um bless him. This guy sort of looked down at his shoes and then looked up at us and said Life is not a blooper. It is merely a pooper scooper. And then he attacked himself with a beast.

That, that, that is that's the Antony and Cleopatra I want. But we're we're gonna we're gonna go instead. Antony, Antony, and Cleopatra, that Shakespeare wants. And we are picking up at the point where Antony, I think, is bleeding out. or has bled out, Cleopatra is about to go on her for realse's murder escapade, uh, including herself and um And and

And this is what happens. Okay. So Cleopatra first goes for a dagger, but uh this Roman dude grabs the dagger. This is line forty five of Act Five, scene two. And he says, Hold, worthy lady, hold, do not do yourself such wrong who are in this relief but not betrayed. Cleopatra answers, What of death too that rids our dogs of languish? Okay, so you can hear the difference to begin with.

Um Proculeus, I believe is his name. Sorry, I was Ina Barbas. I was dead by this point. I was backstage drinking. Um anyway, this Roman dude Pro somebody, um, is using very straightforward language. Hold, right? That the most imagery he uses is like worthy lady. Cleopatra, who thinks in images, um gets a little image in there. What of death too that rids our dogs of languish? It's less imagery, it's more I use fancy words, I'm the queen.

Roman Proculius answers, Cleopatra, Do not abuse my master's bounty by the undoing of yourself. Let the world see his nobleness well acted, which your death will never let come forth. Okay. So again, he's very straightforward. And as we're talking about verse drama, are you picking up what I'm putting down here? That it's good to have different characters have different relationships to whether they use images or not.

If you want to put it another way, it's good when different characters Use the same ornaments or refuse to use the same ornaments as one another, the audience does pick up on it. And it tells us like who's connected in the world, who's fighting in the world, um, what their status is. Okay, so this guard is not using imagery. Cleopatra is, and in fact, Cleopatra answers. Where art thou death? Come hither, come, come, come, and take a queen worth many babes and beggars.

Now we've got here the repetition, right? Come hither, come, come, come and take a queen. We've got alliteration with many babes and beggars, as well as the k-k-k sound. And what's great about this is while we still have a a sort of uh we have an ode moment where art thou death. Anthropomorphizing death on the first line and on the third line um we have again a bit of imagery with many babes and beggars.

But in the middle there, what you get regardless is a sense of urgency, just like I was talking about with the idea of the wild hunt as as a plot. Cleopatra is distraught. She is trying to find a way to live or shuffle off this mortal coil. So listen to her line again. Where art thou death? Come hither, come, come, come, and take a queen worth many babes and beggars. It's also like lovely to say.

The consonants make me feel uh the urgency, the rhythm is good. Like this is good use of different poetic devices. It's not um It did it. It's frantic. It's using ornamentation um not to show off the poet, but to show off the character. Which is what we want to do when we're writing poetic verse drama. We're showing off the character.

We are making sure the character is behaving and speaking in a way that makes sense to their situation at that moment. It is not our time to just stop and do vibes because We the playwright had a cool thought. Okay. So um pro Oh Procy. Procy says, Oh temperance lady. Um I believe it's mostly just to fill out the line, but anyway. And then Cleopatra has the famous speech.

Sir, I will eat no meat, I'll not drink, sir. If idle talk will once be necessary, I'll not sleep neither. This mortal house I'll ruin. Do Caesar what he can Know, sir, that I will not wait pinion'd at your master's court, nor once be chastised with the sober eye of dull Octavia, Shall they hoist me up?

and show me to the shouting varletree of censuring Rome Rather in a ditch in Egypt be gentle grave unto me, rather on Nihilus's mud lay me stark naked, and let water flies blow me into abhorring, rather make my country's high pyramids my gibbet, and hang me up in chains. Again, for all that Cleopatra is definitely using imagery, is using really active verbs, is using really potent adjectives.

um has is expressing with those adjectives, with those verbs, how Cleopatra feels about each person she's mentioning. Um, so they're not just thrown in there to be like, ooh, I know the word varlatry, censuring, abhorring, gibbet. Um They're not thrown in there for that. They're thrown in there specifically, the way good poetry works, which is very specific. It's not just filling up ooh, dum di dum di dum di dum uh I need to It is very specific.

And um again it's just a pleasure to speak with the vowels and the consonant. But at the beginning, it is straightforward. And even so, even while using all this imagery. I don't think you, the listener, are ever lost in the imagery. You're never like, hold on, wait, d g give me a second. I need to like imagine this. This is a little mm, what are you saying? Instead, again, listen to how it starts. Sir, I will eat no meat. I'll not drink, sir. That's the first line.

She doesn't stop and go like she wasn't just trying to oh come Death oh come Oh were there food in the mouths of prolific profanity, I forsooth would like No, she just again character and plot win. When we're doing poetic verse drama and she says very plainly, Sir, I will eat no meat, I'll not drink, sir. If idle talk will once be necessary, I'll not sleep neither. And then now that you can feel that she's got the power and effect, the the fact that she's no longer

Sharing very short lines with this guard. She's got text which is unshared at the top. She's got a full line of verse. She is back in control. And now that she's back in control, she can start slipping in the bigger words.

the images like this mortal house all ruin. But still then very pointed. Do Caesar what he can. No, sir, that I will not wait, pinioned at your master's court. The image thereof pinioned Um but again, you don't have to go deep into it, like pinioned like the hawk that flies o'er the valley when the falconer da da ba-da-ba-da-ba-da like it no no no. She has these images at hand, at her control. It's good. Like this is just good. Okay.

And then people come in, people go. Um, Cleopatra says tells Caesar that I'd rather die. Um Dolabella comes in and is like, oh, you know me. Well actually so we'll start here again. Um once the the Roma Guys are gone, Dolabum Dolabella and Cleopatra are left alone. And Dollabella, a servant, be careful there. Um be careful there, servant, don't wear a red shirt in Act five of a Shakespeare tragedy. Dolabella says, Most noble empress, you have heard of me. Again, straightforward.

Um Cleopatra answers, I cannot tell. Dolabelle says, Assuredly you know me. Oh, Delabelle's a guy. Cleopatra says No matter, sir, what I have heard or known, you laugh when boys or women tell their dreams. It's not your trick. Delabella says, I understand not, madam. Okay. Again, do you hear how we are understanding character because the use of imagery tells us who's talking. Cleopatra is a character that uses imagery. People that are around her do not necessarily.

Right. We know who is on whose side. Cleopatra can essentially um code switch. And can talk straightforwardly, can talk in imagery. She has both at hand. So listen to this again. Dolabella, who is a guy, apparently. I'm so sorry, guys. You know, I'm sure I also did it like Well, I mean I was Ena Barbis, everything was gender bent. Anyway, so Dolabella says.

Most noble empress, you have heard of me. Cleopatra, I cannot tell, Dolabella, assuredly you know me. Cleopatra, no matter, sir, what I have heard or known. You laugh, when boys or women tell their dreams, it's not your trick. Dolabella, I understand not, madam. Cleopatra. Now this is gonna be an interrupted this is an extremely famous speech. This is Cleopatra's most famous speech. Not the most famous speech about Cleopatra. That speech is given earlier in the play.

by Ina Barbas and it is a great speech describing Cleopatra and I'm not gonna do it today, but it's a good one. Look it up. This is the most famous speech as spoken by Cleopatra. It's usually honestly, it's usually performed as a soliloquy, as um an unbroken piece of text, not just largely uninterrupted, completely uninterrupted, but as it's written, it's actually um very much interrupted. This is an interrupted

Soliloquy, it's also a drift soliloquy. It also verges a little bit on the parallel universe soliloquy, um, the way that King Lear does. Okay, so. Cleopatra begins. I dreamt there was an emperor, Antony. Oh such another sleep that I might see, but such another man Dolabella interjects with if it might please you, Cleopatra, his face was as the heavens.

And therein stuck a sun and moon which kept their course and lighted the little O Dolabella, most sovereign creature, Cleopatra, his legs bestridd the ocean, his rearied arm crested the world, his voice was propertyed as all the tuned spheres and two and that to friends. But when he meant to quail and shake the orb, he was as rattling thunder. For his bounty there was no winter in death.

An autumn'twas that grew the more by reaping. His delights were dolphin like they showed his back above the element they lived in, in his livery walked crowns and coronets, realms and islands were as plates dropped from his pocket. Dolabella, Cleopatra, Cleopatra, Think you there was, or might be, such a man as this I dreamt of? Dolabella Gentle Madam? No. All right, so why? Why is it okay for Cleopatra to stop and have an entire drift soliloquy, an interrupted drift soliloquy?

Nothing but imagery. Oh my gosh, like come on. His face was as the heavens, and therein stuck a sun and moon. Oh, I love this one. Um in his livery walked crowns and coronets, realms and islands were as plates dropped from his pockets. Like he keeps islands in his pockets and he just sort of drops them like it's a saucer. I amazing, amazing imagery. I mean, where is it? His delights were dolphin like

What? What does that even mean? Um, that was like half our conversation when I worked it with Susanna. Anyway, um Why is this okay? How does this serve the plot? Well, if you remember, this is where um basically this is where pacing comes in. This is where tension and release of tension comes in. This is where what Aristotle might call the music. comes in. We just had this really violent clashing. I will eat no meat. I will not drink. Right? Go tell Caesar I'd rather die.

Ba ba ba ba ba type sounds. And now there's nothing to do but to wait. And part of the waiting is to take stock of, oh, wait a second, I just I lost Antony. Wait, I haven't had a moment to breathe. I don't care that there's someone near me.

I'm going to drift into the siloquy and that release of tension into the imagery, which again, we know that Cleopatra thinks in images. Of course, this is how she's going to describe Antony, as she's uh realizing he's gone and she's realizing this is her last moment. As she as somewhere in the back of her mind, if not just the back, she said it out loud to the guards, I I'd rather die than go with Caesar.

Um, this is the end of it. So how are you gonna spend your last minutes? Well, now we're gonna bring in imagery. When you're fighting for your life, not so much. When you're faced with the end of life? Yeah y you might y might take a moment you might take a moment. But again, both things are in service to the plot point. Both things are in service to who's speaking and who's speaking when. I love, love, love.

Who uses what ornaments? I really want you to think about that, particularly if you're writing characters in verse. What ornaments do you want to use? Are all people capable of using the same ornaments in this world? Can everyone use imagery? And one person can't? Who can't? Why not? Um you can go back to my plain rhyming couplets and what happens when you break break the rules of the world.

Um, in this case, is it just people with great amount of passion? Can Antony and Cleopatra have this like secret image language? with each other that no one can keep up with? Right? What is the story you're telling? How can you use if you want to do poetic verse drama? We've talked about how to use verse. This is how to use poetry.

What do these ornaments say? Does your character think in images? Do your characters rhyme? Um Do your characters use a certain meter and other people use a different meter? I've I've done that in a couple experimental pieces. It is striking and awesome. I highly, highly recommend having very different feeling meters, not just, ooh, these guys speak in trokies and these guys speak in IMS, because like

No one can hear that. Uh but like these people speak in anapest, you know, in spoken word, in um grand seizures and a literative Beowulfian language, and these people speak Like choose stuff that that the audience can really hear if you're doing meter apart. But how are you going to use poetry to tell your character's story? Now, I promised that I was going to also pick on Shakespeare. Um, I I have alluded to this before. I want to go into it again. This is good old Romeo and Juliet.

Uh so it's kind of fun. We're looking at um Anthony and Cleopatra, Romeo and Juliet, much older lovers, yitty bitty baby lovers. And uh written at the end of Shakespeare's career, written towards the very beginning of Shakespeare's career. Which is just fascinating. And frankly, I think he got better at using poetry as he went on, which, you know, you you would hope would happen that as you practice you become better. Anyhoosal, so

Um, what I want to pick on is Romeo and Juliet, act one, scene one. We started at the end of all things. We're going back to the beginning of all things. Which should give you comfort if you go back to your early stuff and realize uh that you were trying to write drama and instead you just showed off your own playwriting. Uh, take comfort. Take comfort. Uh so did so did Bill. So this is a very famous piece.

And it starts um more with rhetoric than with poetry. So let's begin around line, what is this? 168, I think it is, in Act One, scene one of Romeo and Juliet's. This is the Benvolio Romeo bit. Romeo has come on very melancholy, sad hours seem long. Benvollio says, it was what sadness lengthens Romeo's hours, right? So we're starting with rhetorical techniques. It's not so much poetry as it is rhetoric.

Sad hours seem long, what sadness lengthens Romeo's hours. Romeo answers with another setup, not having that which having makes them short, right? We're still riffing rhetorically, it's little, it's less. It's less poetry, it's just much more rhetoric. Benvillio says in love out, Benvillier says of love, Romeo says out of her favor where I am in love. So in there actually I personally hear bullets.

in in there. In love, out of love, out of her favor where I am in love. Right? It's bullet, bullet, bullet, ending with like a bullet that's rhetorical. And it's got a nice vibe to it, right? Then Ben Vallier says, Alas that love, so gentle in his view, should be so tyrannous and rough and proof. Okay, so Yes, we're moving into imagery, the idea that love is anthropomorphized. But again, um, I would suggest that the imagery is less important than the rhetoric. Again, we're setting up antitheses.

we are sort of spinning out the meanings of a word, right? Um so again, Ben Valley says, alas that love, so gentle in his view, should be so tyrannous and rough and proof. And then Romeo rejoins again, still um in the rhetoric, like trading rhetorical line, says, Alas that love, whose view is muffled still, so sure he's still he's picking up on the imagery of of anthropomorphized love. Alas that love whose view is muffled still should without eyes see pathways to his will.

And then uh so we even have rhyme in that one, right? But again, it's kind of rhyme, it's poetic ornamentation in service of rhetoric, in service of argumentation. And then Romeo has the very straightforward line, where shall we dine? And then the equally straightforward line, this is all on one line, oh me, what Frey was here? So where shall we dine? Oh me, what Frey was here?

Great, straightforward. Yet tell me not, for I have heard it all. Here's much to do with hate, but more with love. Now notice we are going from rhetoric. too very prosaic, even colloquial, where shall we dine? Oh me, what Frey was here, right? Um, if we were to write it today with colloquialisms, it would be, what should we eat? Oh fuck, what happened?

Right? That's kind of what it sounds like to Shakespeare's audience. Where shall we dine? Oh me, what fray was here? What's you know, where should we eat? Oh fuck, what happened? Right. Okay. Um, so it's col it goes from rhetorical, not terribly poetic, using occasional poetic ornamentation, mostly to win rhetorical points. Such as muffled still, pathways to his will, like boom, there's a rhyming couplet, I don't even have a beanie baby on me, and I'm laying down the rhyming couplet.

And then we go to colloquial because Romeo won that rhetorical battle. And then he comes back into the rhetoric again, yet tell me not, for I have heard it all. Here's much to do with hate, but more with love. And then Outta nowhere. Friggin' Romeo, or I should say friggin' Bill, friggin' baby playwright Bill, who's like, I can write sonnets. I can write stuff that rhymes. I understand antitheses. Um he stops using antitheses in a rhetorical sense and just goes all in on the poetry.

Including a bunch of O's. You ready? Why then? O brawling love, O loving hate, O anything of nothing first create. Oh weird still keeping with the rhyme Oh heavy lightness serious vanity misshapen chaos of well seeming forms feather of lead, bright smoke, cold fire, sick health, still waking sleep. That is not what it is.

Okay, no, I mean I was exaggerating. I was exaggerating all these because to play it that way would be I mean, I think it's hilarious, but it might not might not be the intro to Romeo you want. Um it's interesting, so he starts using antitheses purely ornamentally, purely as imagery, purely as poetry. The fuck why? Why? Why? Why? It it this feels so much like an intrusion from the playwright. It if it why? No. No. Mm-mm. No.

You're wrong. No, no. Go back. Do not collect two hundred dollars back to your garret with you. Bill. Um, and I think in analyzing it just where I know, I think what really bothers me is two things. One, 'Cause Romeo's gonna get poetic. I mean

She hangs upon the jewel uh was it the ear of the cheek of night? Anyway. She um, you know, she's the moon, she's the east, she m teaches the torches to burn bright like I grant you Romeo's a poet, and again, as uh and he thinks not so much in images as in like lyrical odes, right? Extended metaphors. Whereas Cleopatra is like coming up with the image on the spot. And again, this is good. They're different characters.

Romeo is like, but soft light through yonder window breaks. It is the east, and Juliet is the sun. Arise, fair son, like he is just. He is owed to a Grecian earning all over the place. He is apostrophizing to the heavens and taking his time about it. Um And that's fine. That's fine. It is even fine to me that Romeo would start using imagery to describe perhaps.

um, if he's seeing blood on the cobblestones from the fray that happened or the livery of his father's house or a dead body even, um But instead, he basically starts wanking off. with poetic images that are not specific. I mean they're clever, but they're not specific to this moment. They're not necessary. They're not telling me any, they're not painting a picture of the world as Romeo sees it.

The opening fight painted a better picture and that like has extremely colloquial language. Um whereas th this Is just Shakespeare showing off. The problem is it's become so famous And it's taught so often just as this little bit. That you can't cut it. When I directed it, I actually had Romeo like, I may have said this before, I'm sorry if I'm repeating myself. He pulled out um like a piece of paper from his back pocket.

'cause I had him like walking on, writing poetry to begin with, and then presumably this is one of his poems, and sort of undercut this moment with Benvolio Benvolia in our case, like rolling her eyes and just be like, oh, are you serious? You are not with us, Romeo, right now. We are all upset, and you're writing poetry. This is unhelpful. So there are ways to justify, yes, but if we're looking at purely at as text. this is not the poetry Ramyo would go with. And this is um

n not necessarily in some ways the the the moment. Like like he he's thinking so much in rhetoric. These are the first words we're hearing from Romeo. That we're learning he's rhetoric boy. Okay, sure, maybe we learn that that he's got some poetry, but why isn't his poetry better? His poetry's way better later on. Why isn't it the poetry that he does later on? Where he gets an image and like spins it out again, like he's Keats or something. Um Keats, hundreds of years before Keats.

Um, and what's frustrating of course is that right after this they go back to rhetoric. Ish, ish. Well, Romeo has like part two of the poem because early in Shakespeare's career, like He tends to write things twice. So like Richard the Third, every scene is the same scene twice. Like halfway through the scene, you could cut the scene because halfway through the scene he starts the scene again. because you can think of you can think of two clever ways to say the same thing.

And so he just puts them both in. He he's not editing himself. It just a few lines down, Romeo uh decides to ju just go all in on the Rhyming Couplets, which he does. He he's a Rhymmy couplet dude. He and the fryer talking rhyming couplets all the time. So like it's it's fine to establish that. Yeah but again it it feels like Bill showing off.

So yeah, Benvollio, no cause I'd rather weep, Romeo, good heart at what? Benvolio at thy good heart's oppression? Romeo, why such is love's transgression? Griefs of mine own lie heavy in my breast. Which thou wilt not propagate to have it pressed with more of thine, this love that thou hast shown doth add more grief to too much of mine own. Love is a smoke made with a fume of sighs, being purged a fire sparkling in lovers' eyes.

Being vexed, a scene nourished with loving tears, what is it else, a madness most discreet, A choking gall and a preserving sweet, farewell, my cuzz. Okay, this second one is actually much better.

If I were editing Shakespeare back in what fifteen ninety seven, something like that, um, I would have told him, You gotta drop the first one. It's cool. Put it in a sonnet though, babe. I'm sorry. You know, pass it under the door of the person you fancy tonight. Um, but this second one is more Romeo. It's got Rami Coblet. Um it be it it does the ode thing of love is a smoke made with a fume of sighs being purged. Like it

He he just keeps like staying on the idea and spinning out what it is, being purged, a fire sparkling in lover's eyes, being vexed, a scene nourished with loving tears. What is it else? Okay. This is more Romeo. And this transition actually from rhetoric into poetic imagery is um It's just smoother than oh this, oh that. Okay, so. It's fine. If you like go and look at your own stuff. If you find that one of your characters does tend to use poetic language, poetic ornament.

double check their introduction. Are they using it early on? Are they actually using another different type of language? And is that appropriate to the moment? Do you need to have them speaking with their ornamentation up front? Who do they speak in ornamentation with? Um, and again, always going back to what is happening in the moment. Do they have the time to speak poetry? Uh right, which brings us actually

To good old T.S. Elliot. Okay. So I'm going to read to you first, actually, a piece from his four quartets. This is East Cokert, which is the second of the four quartets, and I'm gonna be looking at the fifth canto. You're hearing me scroll down as I as I go back to the fourth canto. And Colin, that was me turning up the heater because it's for reason. Anyway, okay. So we're gonna look at T.S. Elliott.

And we're going to be looking at two pieces. One is a poem that he uh wrote these are both from the nineteen forties. And the other is from the Cocktail Party, which was at the time of his life, um, one of the better received and it it toured a little bit of his plays because he basically tried to write something well, it's a cocktail party. He tried to write something that looked like the nineteen 40s, 1950s, living room dramas. Um

We'll talk about the cocktail part in a second. Okay, well let's let's start with uh East Coker, Canto 5. This is the second poem of Elliot's Four Quartet. If you have the ability to see um Ray Fein's performance, because he performed the four quartets as a one-man piece, so again, you've got the sense of this is a performance. But it's um it's a narration or it's a presentation, right? Um

It was definitely it it was an experience to watch it. I watched it on BBC iPlayer. Um, but uh, but he wasn't a character. There wasn't a plot. Um, vibes were very much there and you're gonna hear some of the vibes. So here we are. Again, this is a poem, meant to be a poem, not meant to be a production, just Refines decided to. Decide to produce it. Anyway, here we go. Canto 5.

So here I am in the middle way, having had twenty years, twenty years largely wasted Les années de l'entre-deux-gare trying to use words and every attempt is a wholly new start and a different kind of failure, because one has only learnt to get the better of words for the thing one no longer has to say. Or the way in which one is no longer disposed to say it. And so each venture is a new beginning.

arrayed on the inarticulate, with shabby equipment always deteriorating, in the general mess of imprecision and feeling, undisciplined squads of emotion, And what there is to conquer by strength and submission has already been discovered once or twice or several times by men whom one cannot hope to emulate. But there is no competition. There is only the fight to recover what has been lost and found. And lost again and again and now under conditions that seem unpropitious.

But perhaps neither gain nor loss. For us, there is only the trying. The rest is not our business. Uh and it goes on. Um, uh I mean it's just beautiful. The home is where one starts from. In my end is my beginning. Like Four quartets is really good. I I definitely recommend reading it. Like T. S. Elliott, I I think his poetry is really kinda excellent. Now, what's kind of interesting here is this is this is extremely modern poetry. It's free verse.

It isn't necessarily strictly repeated and metered. Um it is in protean stickic verse, so the line endings are sort of all over the place. They do tend to be in the way of Elliot fairly long lines. um and with multiple uh schooms on each line, the end of one line, the beginning of another. Um And again, it's more as you can feel it sort of a contemplative style. I would still call it poetry because it evokes. The ornaments are less obvious than

uh the ornamentation including uh enjamment, um on the line endings, including the specificity of language. Um arrayed on the inarticulate, with shabby equipment always deteriorating, in the general mess of imprecision of feeling, undisciplined squads of emotion. This is poetry. These are images. It is evocative. Uh even though it begins sort of gently, so here I am in the middle way, having had twenty years.

There's, as there is with a lot of T.S. Elliot, a lot of repetition, such as there's only the fight to recover what has been lost. and found and lost again and again and now right? Okay. Perhaps there is neither gain nor loss. That sort of thing. So there's sort of a hypnotic quality to the way he creates a poem. And uh it's it's really beautiful. The other thing that I would say is it's very obviously T. S. Elliot speaking. This is the poet. This is not a character.

Um, there's no plot here, although we could say sure the plot is he's trying to grope for words. I mean, is that the plot? Um It even the the vibe again is um it doesn't hit you in the face, right? It's a very subtle vibe. This is really about The theme. I really think that's what Elliot did well was using his language for theme. And in this, I mean, uh the entire thing is about mortality. And and artistry and language and Trying to

Time, home, y you know, small things that again, he is wrapping language around the ineffable. And that's kind of the purpose of poetry, is to try to wrap language around the ineffable.

Okay, so I think this is pretty good. But it's not. Drama. It's not drama. It is verse, it is poetic verse, and again, uh it has been performed by Ray Fines, uh beautifully performed by Ray Fines. Um so it's been turned into a performance, but it is not drama. Unlike the Cocktail Party, so in in extremely brief, the Cocktail Party is sort of the third major play by Elliot. I believe he wrote seven in total. But I always think of Murder in the Cathedral. Um

The family reunion and the cocktail party. Um are the are the one the big three, basically. This one did very well. It's act one basically is there is a cocktail party going on and then people leave and then people come back and there are a bunch of like two person scenes and you realize that the lead guy, Edward, that his wife left him. But the reas possibly the reason is'cause he's having an affair with Celia. We're gonna be looking at a scene between Edward and Celia.

Um but everyone's kind of very blasé and bougie. basically. Um, Edward meets this mysterious man who's kind of cryptic at him and gets Edward to to say, Ah, yes, I have been Cheating on my wife. Um and then goes away. Act two, Edward and his wife Lavinia. go to the mysterious man who turns out to be a doctor, but isn't a doctor. He's actually an angel. But not really an angel, but yes, definitely. And a couple other people that were at the cocktail party are also angels.

But they're all like masquerading as neighbors and psychiatrists and things. And basically there's a big old lecture about bougie stuff and marriage stuff and It's kind of like a I mean, it it makes you long to see who's afraid of Virginia Wolf, and I don't really like that play. Anyway, Alec Guinness played the mysterious man slash psychiatrist slash angel. um in in the original production. So Obi-Wan Kenobi, I I feel actually had an upgrade to to becoming a, you know, a space wizard.

Um, and then act three is they're all back at a cocktail party again. And Celia has repented of being a fawn woman and went to be a missionary. And like died of fire ants or something like that. And so everyone's like, oh, she's a martyr. At least all the angels are like, oh, she's a martyr.

And something about the guy that liked the mistress Celia went off to Hollywood, but there's hope for him yet. So the angels say, and Edward and Lavinia are kind of just stuck in bougie purgatory end of play. So like I'm not really sure I'm not really sure that Elliot really knew what he was writing about either. People have speculated that he was essentially trying to process his own failing a marriage.

Um so that would put it sort of theme first. The poetry isn't really striking enough to be like vibes and poetry first. Um I guess there are three acts wherein technically people enter and exit.

But like it isn't really a drama. And these characters as you're about to hear all sound like T.S. Elliot, which I know I've complained about before, but I'm gonna read to you right now. And it's not just gonna be Murder in the Cathedral. These are like This is this is Elliot having gotten better as a playwright.

And and to be fair, to be fair, actually the early scene, um, and there's a comical older lady character, I think her name is Julia, that like keeps losing her glasses and that's actually quite funny. Um So like it he he he was making gestures towards caricatures. Let's put it that way. He was making gestures towards caricatures, which is a step in the right direction.

But okay. Um let's see. I'm going to pick up sort of in the middle of this Edward and Celia scene from Act One. And Edward is basically saying. Peter, this guy Peter just said that he's in love with you and Celia is going, well, that's weird. I Never well I'll just read it. Okay.

Celia says, but this is ridiculous. Actually, I'm gonna do it because I didn't listen to the Alec Gill Guinness recording, which someone put on YouTube, bless. So you don't have to read it, you can go and listen to it if you want to. you know, go and like go to the gym or take a walk and listen on YouTube to this weird ass play. Anyway. So I'm gonna do it in in their clipped 19 late 1940s, early 1950s, Britishisms, because this is what it sounds like. And if you listen to T.S. Elliott.

and his affected accent, because we all know you're from America Tom, Um he also talks like this, so he is writing with this accent in mind. So I will do it in my approximation of that accent. So instead of but this is ridiculous. I never gave Peter any reason to suppose I cared for him. I will have Celia begin with. But this is ridiculous.

I never gave Peter any reason to suppose I cared for him. I thought he had talent. I saw that he was lonely. I thought that I could help him. I took him to Corts. But then, as he came to make more acquaintances, I found him less interesting and rather conceited. But why should we talk about Peter? All that matters is that you want Lavinia that you think you want Lavinia. Lavinia is the wife who has left Peter. Celia, who is speaking, is the mistress. Who I guess want to do that.

Edward. Right. No, sorry. Okay. So Lavinia is the wife who has left Edward. Celia is talking to Edward. Celia and Edward are in an extramarital affair. So to pick up a cilia, all that matters it. that you think you want Lavinia. And if that is the sort of person you are, well, you had better have her. Okay, actually, this isn't terrible, is it? I mean it's trite. It's colloquial for the time. Um, it's using a very specific

language of the nineteen forties. Uh, you know, I think you had better have her. You know, like, okay. Um but it's actually telling a story. Let's see if Edward sounds different than Celia, and I will pitch my voice lower, but I'll keep the accent. So she's saying If you want Lavinia, you'd better have her, and Edward responds. It's not like that.

It's not that I am in love with Lavinia. I don't think I was ever really in love with her. If I ever have been in love, and I think that I have, I have never been in love with anyone but you, and perhaps I still am. But this can't go on. It never could have been a permanent thing. You should have a man nearer your own age. Okay, again, this isn't terrible. Um It's a little overwrought. And uh I will say again in terms of using the verse and using ornamentation.

In Elliot's own piece wherein he talks about his three verse dramas and what he thinks he did well and where what he thinks he did poorly, he says in the cocktail party. He decided that every line would have uh at least one sejure. Basically, what he means is that every line would have at least two schwumps. So Or at least he would aim for that. So Edward for example has

If I have ever been in love, hyphen, and I think that I have, line break, I have never been in love with anyone but you. Ooh, full schroom on a line. And perhaps I still am, period. But this can't go on. Line break. Okay, so two shrooms on that. It never could have been ellipses, a permanent thing. Line break. You should have a man, ellipses, nearer your own age.

Okay. So you can hear you've got this sort of like Thumpada, thumpada, thumpada, thumpada, because he's breaking up most of the lines into two halves, which kind of gives it. a curious meter because he's writing well, he's writing in free verse and in blank verse. Obviously we don't have rhyme here. And he's not running with imagery. He kind of creates a sort of meter where you're hearing, where you're feeling plop, plop. Plop. Plop. And the thing is, he does it for the whole play.

So I'm not sure he tells us anything about these characters through that poetic, and I would call a poetic device. A poetic device that you can kind of only do on a line of verse. Does that make sense? Okay. Celia answers. I don't think I care to take advice from you, Edward. You are not entitled to take any inter sorry, she's higher. I don't think I care for advice from you, Edward. You are not entitled to take any interest now in my future.

I only hope you're competent to manage your own. But if you are not in love, and never have been in love with Lavinia, what is it that you want? Okay, again, that I mean, it could almost be paragraph form. In fact, um Dennis Donahue. who was kind of like the leading authority on verse drama in mid twentieth century. So he came after Elliot. He's writing like in the forties, fifties, sixties, maybe the seventies. Um

I don't think he's a very good critic, to be entirely frank. I've got his book and he's mostly just worshipping T. S. Elliott. Um, but one of the things that he likes about Elliot is that Elliot became more and more conversational-sounding, so that it almost didn't sound like verb. Um, I think that's true. Again, Elliot is, at least up to this point in the play, kind of resisting poetic verse. But he is using verse and he's using a tool that you can only use on verse.

Easily or obviously, which is that grand sejure or uh sort of Swoop. Okay. So Celia says, And have never been in love with Lavinia. What is it that you won't? Edward says I am not sure. I don't know, my accent just changed. I'm so unsure my accent changed. Let's try it again. Edward says I'm not sure. The one thing of which I am relatively certain it that only since this morning I have met myself as a middle aged man, beginning to know what it is to feel old.

That is the worst moment, when you feel that you have lost the desire for all that was most desirable. God before you are contented with what you can desire, before you know what is left to be desired, and you go on wishing that you could desire what desire has left behind, but you cannot understand. How could you understand what it is to feel old?

I don't know why like his voice was much higher on that. Sorry about that. Um I'm gonna read that again, but I want you like that sounds Like yeast coco, right? The one thing of which I am relatively certain is that only since this morning I have met myself as a middle aged man. That's Edward speaking in the Um in the cocktail party. This is Canto five of East Coker.

So here I am in the middle way, having had twenty years, twenty years largely wasted, trying to use words and every attempt as a wholly new start and a different kind of failure. Back to Edward. the one thing of which I am relatively certain is that only since this morning I have met myself as a middle aged man, beginning to know what it is to feel old. This is the worst moment, when you feel that you have lost the desire for all that was most desirable.

before you are contented with what you can desire, before you know what it is left to be desired, and you go on wishing that you could desire what desire has left behind. But you cannot understand how could you understand what it is to feel old? Okay. So we are PURE poetic on this, and I swear to high heaven When I first heard this, when I got To this specific part. All I could imagine was like a really bad SNL sketch or something where like they're talking about

You want to go back to Lavinia? I really don't care. I'm very sorry, darling, but I must go back to Lavinia. And then all of a sudden, like the music swells, and Edward turns towards a window and there's rain outside, and he's going the one thing of which I am relatively certain is that only since this morning I have met myself as a middle aged man Desire, desire, desire, desire, desire but you cannot understand

Okay, so this is the thing. I want you to imagine this right now, because like if I ever stage this scene, this is how I'm staging it. This is not how it's supposed to be staged. It is supposed to be staged as a very serious breakup. But instead Edward is going. That is the worst moment when you have felt that you have lost the desire for all that was most desirable.

before you are contented with what you can desire, before you know what is left to be desired, and you go on wishing that you could desire what desire has left behind. But you cannot understand how could you understand what it is to feel old, Celia responds, but I want to understand you. I could understand. And, Edward, please believe that whatever happens, I shall not loath you.

I shall only feel sorry for you. It is only myself I am in danger of loathing. But what will your life be? I cannot bear to think of it. Oh, Edward, can you be happy with Lavinia? Edward replies No, not happy, or if there is any happiness, only the happiness of knowing that the misery does not feed on the ruin of loveliness, that the tedium is not the residue of ecstasy.

I see that my life was determined long ago, and that the struggle to escape from it is only a make-believe, a pretense, that what it is is not, or could be changed. The self that can say, I want this or want that, the self that wills He is a feeble creature, he has come to terms in the end with the obstinate, the tougher self who does not speak, who never talks, who cannot argue. And who in some men may be the guardian?

But in men like me, the dull, the implacable, the indomitable spirit of mediocrity, the willing self can contrive the disaster of this unwilling partnership, but can only flourish in submission to the rule of the stronger partner. Celie replies. I am not sure, Edward, that I understand you, and yet I understand as I never did before. I think, I believe, you are being yourself, as you never were before with me.

Twice you have changed since I have been looking at you. I looked at your face, and I thought that I knew and loved every contour, and as I looked, it withered, as if I an unwrapped a mummy. I listened to your voice that had always thrilled me, and it became another voice, no, not a voice. What I heard was only the noise of an insect, dry, endless, meaningless, inhuman. You might have made it by scraping your legs together, or however grasshoppers do it.

I looked and listened for your head, your blood, and saw only a beetle the size of a man, with nothing more inside it than what comes out when you tread on a beetle.

This was his most popular play! Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh, Tom. What the fuck are you doing, my man? Oh my stomach. Okay. I had unwrapped a mummy. Not a voice. What I heard was the noise of an insect You might have scraped your legs together, or however grasshoppers do it. I only saw a beetle the size of a man What No, not happy, or if there's any happiness, only the happiness of knowing that the misery does not feed on the ruin of loveliness, that the tedium is not the residue of ecstasy.

How could you understand what it is to feel old? But I want to understand you, I could understand. I'm not sure, Edward, that I understand you, and yet I understand as I never did before. I just Oh bad it's so bad. It is just so It's so like Again, this is this is perfect. This is perfect satire. This is absolutely Gorgeous SNL sketch. Except he's really serious. Like he's trying, guys. Like Tom has shit to say about his marriage, but this is how he's saying it. Like, no.

Come on. Okay, okay, okay, okay. The problem is, as we've mentioned before with Elliot, is that he's incapable of sounding like anyone else except himself. All this stuff sounds exactly like the four quartets. Like I I watch these two back to back and the other thing that it sounds like is Joey Fett um uh oh my gosh, not Joey Fetton. Ah, Joey Tribani from Friends when Joey's writing the wedding vow.

And he's like, and it is in giving and receiving that we receive and give and we give as we receive. And you can hear, and it is in giving and receiving that we receive and give and give and receive. I'm like, okay, yeah, it's the ornament of repetition. It's the ornament of like using rhetoric in the service of sort of poetical ideas. And we've got the imagery of the beetle or however grasshoppers do it.

There's there's y you know, I met myself as a middle aged man almost exactly as so here I am in the middle way. Um There I mean this there's this really actually very lovely bit of That is the worst moment when you feel that you have lost the desire for all that was most desirable before you are contented with what you can desire, before you know what is left to be desired.

And you go on wishing that you could desire what desire has left behind. That's amazing. But then like it's never hooked into the moment. They're like talking uh they're like mouthpieces for T. S. Elliot talking past each other. And it started so strong when he wasn't doing poetry. I mean, it it's not the bestest in the world, but like it was fine. Um, it was overwritten. He didn't need that many words to be like, You're in love with L I'm sorry, you want to go back to your wife? What?

Um again he's using uh really sort of the heightened colloquial language of the bougie in the nineteen forties, nineteen fifties, England. Uh he's using that colloquialism to mass any sort of feelings, which makes sense for these bougie people, sure. Um he's using that verse technique and you probably felt it, right? Lots of ba-da-da, ba-da-da, ba-da-da, ba-da-da, da-da-da, da-da-da. It's a schwump and a schwumpf and a schumpf.

And a shroom fend and a shroomf and a shroom fend and a shroomf and a shroom fend. Ooh, here's a full shroom and a shroom and a shroom fent. It it gets a little hypnotic. Um They don't sound like they're breaking up, do they? Like they don't. They don't sound like they're breaking up. They don't sound heartbroken that this is happening. Um again, I mean, this sounds like poetic masturbation. Let's be honest.

That's what it is. That's why it's hilarious. And that's why, if it were meant to be really funny, and and i Elliot does call this play a comedy. But um they revived it a few years ago here in England. I was reading several of the reviews and um all the reviewers were mentioning that it's meant to be a comedy and there are a few comic bits, which there are. Um, but it's just just not funny. It's just not a funny play. Um

And uh it's it's not meant to be over the top. And as I was listening to the the whole play, I kept thinking after this scene, which just w where the imagery work was so atrocious that like the the characters what little there was of a character that was kind of being developed, the entire plot point of this is a break. between a long-term mistress and this older dude whose wife just ran out on him and he realizes he wants back.

M maybe this is not the time to be going No, not happy all, if there is any happiness, only the happiness of knowing that the misery does not feed on the ruin of loveliness. that the TDM is not the residue of ecstasy. Is this what you say when you break up a long term affair'cause you realize you want your wife back and she just ran out on you? Like Again, I'm fine with the Cleopatra Drift soliloquy, but he was in the middle of breaking up with Celia, who is still in the room.

And if he's talking this way, I'm like, Celia, get out of there. Edward is never gonna be aware you're in the room. And if that were the point, if Celia then weren't also speaking in grasshopper imagery back at him and going, I I do understand you, as I never did before. Um N I you know, maybe she could have been angry that he just always drifts off.

and thinks his poetic thoughts about love and desire and happiness and time and mortality. And uh but she doesn't she doesn't. She sounds exactly like Edward, and there's no urgency There's no urgency. There's no so there's no character development with this imagery. There's no plot the the plot is completely obscured in the moment by this poetry. The poetry itself is like a pale version of his actual poetry.

um which we read first and thematically it it it's just kind of going round in circles. Like he the imagery here has all the same o'vreal, all the same performative energy, right? I think that's one of my problems with like the switch in Romeo earlier on. is that the ouvriel feels jarring and out of place. And again, it suddenly sounds like the playwright, it doesn't sound like the character. The performative energy goes just a little wrenched, just a little weird.

Um whereas like the o'vreal for Cleopatra you can Feel it morph and change and shape, and you can follow its changes, but it doesn't stay static. Whereas this should be a big important scene because this scene, this scene, when Edward decides that he's gonna go after Lavinia after all and he's breaking up with Celia. is the only plot point that makes the other two acts even happen. So if this plot point doesn't happen, my man Tom you'll play don't happen.

And instead, and this is I guess the last thing that I'll leave you on regarding imagery. This is oof. Okay, it goes back to Romeo. If you're using poetry. for a character or anytime really leave your audience raw Don't use poetry as a shield, don't use imagery as a shield. Don't throw up a bunch of fancy words and repeated words and strong adverbs and and things like that, um, as a shield for feeling something.

'Cause that's what's happening here and that's what happened with Romeo. He says what Frey was here and then instead of going like I see the blood upon the stones, what hast thou done, Bonvolio? Right? Which is like, oof, you feel that. He goes Oh brawling love, loving hate like you. That's hiding. That's hiding. That's hiding. You're hiding in the moment. This is an important moment and you're hiding.

So I would really encourage you, um, as you're looking at your own plays, to make sure that if you're looking to do drama, which is plot and character first. If you're looking to do drama, really make sure the placement of your imagery, the placement of your poeticness, Um, that it's raw where it needs to be raw. And that means maybe um if you're running through the woods away from the green man, you're just screaming, you're not stopping and doing poetical antithesis or saying

I looked at your face and I thought that I knew and loved every contour, as I looked it withered as if I had unwrapped a mummy. Green the the horned god has got you now, and you're dead. Oh, that that would be hilarious. Someone write that please. Um Yeah, double check that you you as a playwright are not showing off with your poetry. Make sure that you're not like interrupting the flow of the scene by putting in poetry.

Make sure the poetry is specific to your character. How do they use ornamentation? I don't care how you use ornamentation. I don't care what your go-tos are. Do you like rhyme? I don't care. If your character doesn't like rhyme, if your character cannot make a metaphor to save their life, if your character hates siblings, Your character in a drama wins.

And whatever ornaments they want to use are the ones you should use and introduce, right? Do not get in the way of your character, do not get in the way of your plot, and do not get in the way of your own emotions. I have done this myself, I believe one of Unhinged Rants, I think the third one from last year, um, made f fun. I I'm I'm pretty sure we released this.

Colin again. We did, by the way. It's on Patreon. Um, where I I made I made fun of some of my own early writing where um I hid behind imagery. I hid behind imagery. Um, because it was too scary to say the real stuff. And when I said the real stuff, I didn't lose any of the poetry. In fact, my poetry became much better and much more specific to the character. Um, or sometimes just shorter. I just finally got to the point. You know, I did the plot point, in and out, done.

So, as we're writing poetic drama, poetic drama. Um Be aware that the poetry needs to be in service of your drama, in service of the plot, in service of the characters. If you're writing a poetic, um oh, not production, whatever you say, presentation. Where theme is first. uh again be aware of that and that the poetry should not overwhelm your theme. Your theme still needs to be crystal. if you are writing a vibes based poetry thing, go nuts, my man. Have fun.

But if you're doing a drama, then your poetry is in service of the drama, not the other way around. Okay. Okay.

Cool. Tell me what imagery, what poetic ornaments you are using. We will see you next time. We're going to be coming um sort of in between season three and season four. You're going to be getting a lot of interviews. Um Some of you know who you are already. And uh yeah, it It this may be where we end. I think this is where we're gonna be ending soliloquy because we've really gotten into just like developing character.

And uh sixteen, uh rather than going on seventeen, we'll stop here at a at a nice even number. So drop us a line at Hamlet to Hamilton with number two in between on Twitter or Hamlet to Hamilton all spelled out at gmail.com. Join us over on Patreon, patreon.com slash Hamlet to Hamilton. Keep writing, and we will see you for our sort of mid-season interviews and season four. Medieval to early modern history. Hamlet to Hamilton Exploring Verse Drama is the first time.

Patreon. Special thanks to stars and scanshin patrons. Ben Claude, Madeline Farley, and Jessica. If you'd like to become our patron and get different goodies, you can join us over on patreon.com slash hamlet. Hamlet to Hamilton is hosted by Emily C.A. Snyder, with audio engineering and sound design by Colin Kavarik. This podcast is part of the Slash productions.

You can learn more by going to hamlet to Hamilton.com or turntoflesh.org. If you liked this episode, please like, share, comment, subscribe, you know what to do. You can follow us on Twitter at Hamlet2Hamilton with the numeral two. or use the hashtag Hamlet to Hamilton or H2H with a numeral too. Thank you so much for listening, and we'll see you in two weeks' time as we continue exploring virtual.