"We're Still in the Past..." | S4, Ch. 7 Script Breakdown | Part 3

I'm Ashley, and I'm Jasmine. And you're tuned into ham, radio stranger things podcast. It's the Cadillac and welcome back. Everyone to yet another episode of ham radio, trying to the his podcast. On today's episode, we will be continuing our journey into the script for chapter for season 4. Chapter 7, the massacre Hopkins,

lab, our script analysis series. And today, part 3, we will be discussing elevens Journey back to that fateful day, in September of 1979, which forever changed, only her life, or the

lab. But, you know, you can make the argument Hawkins and, and everything that we've experienced thus far will be talking about the upside down being stuck in 1983. And of course, We talking about some discrepancies between the script and the on-screen product Parts, 1 and 2 of this series are currently available wherever you listen to your favorite podcast. So if you want to go ahead and listen to those before you listen to part three. So you can be all caught up more

than welcome to do that. So before we actually begin our discussion today, our part three discussion, Jasmine is going to tell you where you can find us on social media and where you can listen to the podcast. If I say, Instagram at ham radio dot media on Twitter, at ham through on YouTube at hammered and media or add ham radio 1983, that's our handle. We also have a Discord server that we started. The link will be in the show notes and description for the

episode. If you want to talk about something in particular or you have a fan Theory you'd like Share, or you have a question, you will take it was no questions, the past, you can email us at hair and radio and Malika at gmail.com actually has a fanfic about other things College Years on a 03, which there will also be a link to in the show notes. And the broadcast is available on all major podcasting platforms.

Google Apple Spotify, Stitcher excetera, please consider leaving us a review and rate in. We've logged totally to go stuff coming up so please follow us on our social keep up with the Podcast and all of our new content and thank you Jasmine. Yes, so the Discord, we, we just got that up running about a month ago now. Well, it's about time of this recording and we've had some really good responses. We've, there's, you know, some friends of the podcast and jump

down there to to share. And if especially if you if you guys like the music and finger things and you want to talk about that like that's been Big big discussion on the Discord as light, there's no problem about that or if you just want to come on the Discord and you know just you talk about really whatever.

I mean your family your friends. But yeah you know just come even if you are a beiler fan you can still come and join us on the Discord. All we ask is that you do not spam the Discord with beiler discussion, it's okay. If you drop a line every now and get, but don't Data. Don't hit it up all the time. If you do that, we'll probably call vecna on you because we can't, we can't allow a lot of

that. But moving on to the topic at hand today, which is, as I just mentioned earlier, the, our part, three of our script breakdown. But before we get really get into that Jasmine. And I've decided for this series, in particular, to include an Question for each break down that we do and it kind of revolves around something in the in the pages of the script that we will be discussing.

And then what we're going to do is we're just going to pose the question at the beginning of the discussion and then once we get done discussing, you know, the pages of the script we have to cover, then we will attempt our give our best attempt. To answer the essential question and we'll probably try to keep up, put it in the description of the episode so that you guys can send us your thoughts on the EQ as well.

So for part three is essential question, was Dustin's, hypothesis regarding the vecna / mind, flayer connection, correct or incorrect. So hold on to that thought. Then try your best as we go along to think of, you know, what your answer is? Maybe and Jasmine and I will do the same. So wait to the you know, the end of the episode today here - Jasmine's thoughts. Yeah, well the question so we begin the script right down with

11 is is now going back. To September 8 1979 the day of the massacre at all because lat Brenner's, finally gotten her to calm down and to do this. And so we open with we're back in time through the Nita tank. And this is after 11 gets bullied and kind of pushed around and knocked unconscious.

The older lab kids and she's in the infirmary and it's really funny because dr. Brenner himself, probably not an MD is examining her and is you know, just one need a little little flash on her eyes to make sure your eyes are dilated and all that good stuff. And he asks, her any more headaches? Nausea this morning. She states her head. No, they asked her about her memory. Can you remember happen?

And she still says no and then he says, perhaps someone else to fill in the gaps for you or us. Yes. And so they walk off into the training room and then dr. Brenner, as in the script, as in as it was on screen, He has all the kids lined up and there's the orderlies there including the friendly orderi orderly who we don't yet know much about

him. You know he's standing there and this is when Brenner asks loving to step forward and then you know, Brenner's bring up what happened and he's like she claims to have no memory of this but I know someone in this room you know did it and they're all just saying there, they don't want to say anything because they're scared and and all this is like, verbatim. All the dialogue is verbatim in the script as it is in the actual scene itself.

Then we get to a part where one of the numbers who we know is number two, he He is not called number two in the script. He is called a for, in the script. So, Jasmine, I'm going to talk a little bit about that real quick. Got to talk about. You know why we think? Maybe they changed his name from number four to number two. Jasmine would you like to begin? Sure. Yeah that was something that I I noticed you as being one of the biggest changes like you're

right that most esteemed. The is very similar to the script and I think that has to do with something I know. It's what we've been, you know, comparing the script to final product is things about the Lord, or the lab are almost identical. Where's the biggest changes? We see is dialogue in the Hawkins or go Russia.

Plot in terms of interpersonal stuff with the characters which makes sense because we know that they have like a set plan in a set Bible about the lore would include staff about the lab. So to be a makes sense that that's going to be verbatim because that that has to be particular in order to get to a certain point where's everything else can change its more chemistry the actors or someone has a good idea or they play they're like well that doesn't sound very good.

Let's try it again. It's more natural that dialogue versus the lab which is not natural on purpose. Because yeah, I noticed that too and I'm I'm curious as to what the fact that it was the number of the the kid responsible got change. Aged. Yeah. Like it's Yeah, it's for descriptive to in the final product.

I don't know if that means anything to me, like, I don't know if it means, you know that there's something to do with the number 4 because it's probably know, both two and four died in the massacre. So I don't know if that was significant or I guess I could significant, but I'm not sure what the significance of it is. Do you know what I mean? What do you, what are your thoughts on that? Yeah, I agree. I don't really know. I mean this is gonna sound kinda bad but it's not.

Why is if it really matters now because they both lost their lives tragically but I kind of thought maybe when I first read the script and saw that I thought, well, maybe they were trying to you know, connect it as as the fourth season and there were split looking for different you know, there's of the world so to speak nautical. But regardless of if he's Two or

four. I find it very interesting that especially considering that he is number two in the show is how much of an age Gap. There is between him. And number one, you know, like like number one is at least at least 10 years older than this kid. Like, I think it's 20 or 30 by that point, like he. Yeah, yeah. Which I didn't know that but you're right. The fact that he's a wonder if that's what they were trying to show us.

Like the fact that it took Brunner like a decade or more to take what Henry had and create the program. Yeah, like maybe they were trying to show that, it took them like it took him and his like people like 10 or 15 or 20 years to get to a point where You know, where they there's number two. It also makes me wonder if I guess obviously a mask the massacre. But if there were other kids, they tried an experiment on the died. You know what I mean?

There were other numbers before that to be came to like I don't believe they're only using a number once. Do you know what I mean? Like, I feel like they probably start over a bunch of times or they have place that kid, and we also don't know the exact timeline of when Terry was

there. Like, obviously she got me there, she'll become Love it and because she's kidnapped but like was, you know, was you know, he built the program around Henry did a to start airing before that and then they build the program around Henry or like where they kept trying to perfect? What was transferring, what Henry had and then character was going on at the same time. They're both part of the same program. You know was a fact that there's such an age Gap?

Is that they had you know people who are willing participants like Terry. Went there voluntarily. You know what I mean? Like is that That part of the transition, is it okay? Well, it took them 10 years to get to this point like all and also for what we understand like Terry throw a wrench into their plans, every other kid they were able to abduct either. Their family was you know had died or they didn't fight the same way.

Terry, did they make a real point of that in season one of the thing that really sets Terry and Jordan top or a part is they're willing to fight they're willing to push for they don't care. They look insane. And that was not the case with the other families.

Either they didn't push as hard or they put deceased so I wonder if that's what they're trying to show us that like or maybe they're trying to give themselves more leaving with the timeline there, you know I mean that that kid is to instead of 4 then they're saying okay well this was there's an age Gap here and maybe that play into do when we get into the final understanding of, what the more what that timeline is. But yeah, I make Us to me that there would be a big gap there.

Because it took, I mean, we see how powerful vecna is in season 4, how powerful he was, when he was a child. But the act of transferring that the would take a while. So I'm curious, if that means, we're going to get more about that timeline or more about those intervening years. The finalists, you think? We've got to you would think right? Like there's just so much gaps.

There's so many gaps there and and to me they I mean, you're going to need to fill in those when you were you You know, have the vinyl season. Not just because it's the final season that's like your last opportunity because, you know, vecna this guy in his story is now becoming so big and just so important to the narrative. Like you can't just, you know, we can't just leave it at just 11's, you know, side of things. We, I feel like we need to see his side of things as well.

What happened to? To him during those years prior to this event because there's no doubt that that was you know, that was a big chunk of his life because, you know he Brenner took him when he was probably what like 12 or 13.

And now he's an adult By 1979. I hope we, you know, we get some answers on that and to that there is An action sequence in this script that comes before this, where we introduced to number 41, number two, about the orderly and it says, quote as Brenner's speaks L clocks the friendly orderly standing nearby

something seems off about him. He averts his gaze from her as Brenner continues to dress his address, his quote, unquote, children in quote and Yeah. Yeah that is definitely what happens on screen and every time I watch that scene, he looks like. I mean his eyes like the first time I watched it. I was like, I feel like this man is back because I saw his eyes really, it's like two seconds and then it jumps back to Brenner.

Across more as like feet, like fear, because we'd seen the scene where he'd like, burner had shocked him, right? And so, to me, it was more like, oh, he's like, he's fearful like he's not, he's not doing it because he's fearful that's more when it came across to me. But I think I think that speaks to just what a great actor Jamie Campbell Bower is that he walks that line so well, right up into the reveal where even if you clock the some internal clock that he was back now.

Now, early on, it's still a huge twist even if you clocked part of it, because it's so good when you kind of walk that time where you're like, hey Tina makes you doubt yourself. Yeah. Yeah, it's very compelling, it really is because you know, knowing what we know now. Whenever I do re watches I always I always say, I mean he's about to go off, like I just you know, knowing now like he's about to go off and it still it does make me wonder still why you know why he killed all those children?

I mean, you know, knowing what he wanted to do. Like you can use them, they all have powers just like you and it's weird that like, he wants hell to join him, but he kills everybody out, he's coming brother in that regard. Like what am I said? Look, I hope your granite were finally going to get an explanation on that because I think the big question is the kind of ghost. The series was like, OK. What is the obsession with L?

Because like Brenner put and helicopters with, I would call it gets all the way to Chicago and that Place the implied exhalation to me anyway, is that, you know, 11 is burners actual biological Challenger. He's more, you know, kind of obsessed with her, her favors her and I think like, you were mentioning earlier, you know, I think that's kind of to me. That's the implication as to why he's kind of favors here in the other kids are jealous because they don't get it.

They're like what's so special about this girl? She's no better than the rest of us or she's slower. And some things to me that That's part of it. But also I feel like, maybe he knew that like, the power she had already me, like, he was, but not everything Henry said was wrong. Don't mean like, what? That's what makes it so compelling, is that? So everybody says 2L before, it's revealed that he's back now is That, you know, what are you saying? Is correct? Like he's wrong but so is

brighter. And so like that's something I really hope they explore in the pharmacies and I think they will that, you know, what is it about L because you're white, like, why would you like the future kills? He does seem to be like it is minor Mercy killings, right? He's these people are suffering. I'm relieving them of their suffering. I'm going to make a new world, you know, angel of death, but you're right.

Why kill a bunch of kids are super A Powers, especially when, you know, about those little shits are evil, and you can like, you know, like you can use that, right? Although part of me, kind of Wonder, does he wanted L? Stay in the Supply Closet. It was really mad when he did come out and part of it was. Okay. I'm gonna he's better. I can't control them. I can't raise them. I can't like I can't do this because he'd worked with them enough but L was different.

He saw someone he could manipulate a raised kind of way better had. And I think what surprised This is him and also surprised, brother. I think they both have the same problem because that's the person. Like there were two practically would have raised him. After that point raised him and quote to there, they both have this thing where they don't

expect. I think they expect, they'll develop more pliable in terms of being able to control her than she actually is. And when push comes to shove, he has this innate sense of right and wrong, that they don't have. And psychologically, something I come back to his because we know that her mother, like we see those memories of her mother being there for her, and loving her, and wanting her from birth and coming to rescue her. Is that like the been studies on

this? Now, that basically, the kind of love and affection you received at a very young age and when you are A baby that continues to, you know, resonate and become part of you as you grow older. I mean of course you can overcome those things but the gravity comes from that loving base, I think definitely has an impact and I think that's something that makes her a great character.

Is you see that? Like that's that's what surprises, the people around, who think they can control her and I think that's why she flourishes so greatly when she brought into, you know, protection and the buyers dagger and she's surrounded by your friends and people who understand how powerful she is, who share that sense of right and wrong with her. So I yeah, I think that's interesting and I hope we kind of get into that because yeah, why kill a bunch of kids that have superpowers?

If you're going to take over the world, what a guy? I want to know his his reasoning there. No, I, I think I think if, and when they explain the nature of their powers next season and kind of where they originated and what exactly how exactly does they're able to do what they are able to do. I think could definitely explain a lot because, you know, it's like dr. Brenner kind of touched on this season is it's a lot. Mental in terms of her abilities but it's one part of the show.

I still don't understand and I probably never will, but that's okay. So, yeah, so the rest of that scene in The Script is like, basically the same as on-screen Brenner shocks, this child who begs for mercy and it's Have seen my even even though you know like this kid is a jerk and did really awful stuff to 11 and threatened to kill her. It's really it really is tough to watch because it's a child and enforcing those tiny kids as well to to watch this.

Aswell ones are so scared. Yeah, yeah, it's yeah. It's definitely. It's definitely tough tough to watch for sure. Watch and like you're worried that I feel like most of the scene is verbatim. One thing I did notice is we comment on this last time but Brenner is much Kinder in the script that he is with 11.

Then he is in the final product like something I do versus when they're in the infirmary, in the script, he's much Kinder and he said, you know, keep your eyes open but in the final version he says, try not to Blink and it's a much more detached performance and I think I think retina has to go to Matthew Modine on that one which I think. I think makes perfect Landing said that they were trying to because this is his final Arc,

as far as we know, right? So what I understood that, our fathers are trying to kind of human. I'm a bit as trying to get back. More in is kind of not as back for a bit more in his, our guests. But I ultimately, I think Matthew Modine made the right choice there with his portrayal because I think because you have Owens kaivalya as the counterbalance. So, Owens does very much A humanized capital kind of like

oh my God, what has he done? In contrast you a better who is you know cold and calculating to The Bitter End and I think because of that that feels like a very collaborative is and I don't think I can just randomly rolled up as sad.

Was like I'm doing it this way. That seems to me like a very collaborative decision where he's like he was playing it that way so I can can I try this and the Decker brothers and all the accident said that, you know, it's offical a process and always very open to that which I think is great. And I think what's particularly great about that is in his home moments because Did it performance and because in his mind, you can tell he's done, nothing, wrong?

Right up to the end, even that moment when l call on the fact of what he did to her mother, and he completely justifies it and tries to drug her. So in those last moments where he lays down, he want else forgiveness and she doesn't give it to him. That is so much more satisfying. I think is a viewer because you know, this is a guy who you know, no mercy. Welcome back to the very end.

End. And now he wants to live his forgiveness and you're like, yeah, like No, like, don't give it to him and I saw clone combat that. It's so rare to Media to see women or girls have scenes or arcs where it's acknowledge that, you know, you're acknowledging or forgiving for what happened. But not, that doesn't make it okay. Like that sense of like I can forgive, you forgive myself piece, but that doesn't make what you did okay?

Or no, I'm not giving you that forgiveness because what you did was not okay. That is so rare. Love that 11 got to have that moment. She really felt learned in part because of the performance, I also noticed that in the scripture says a about. I don't, we try that sentence in the Scripture. It says, there's like noticeable bruising on L, but in this scene there, isn't it sound like they've maybe jump forward more

time. Back in the scripture supposed to be like, right after it happened versus is a little while later or maybe. They just tried it on Millie Bobby Brown and like, others doesn't look great on screen. But I also noticed that, like, there's a bunch of stuff in the

script about the other numbers. The other kids shooting a life-threatening glances, but in the actual scene, we see, everyone's just kind of looking straight ahead, which I feel like made more sense because then it's like it makes the whole shock of the thing, more impactful. Like if they're shooting threatening Lance's. It's like, all right. Well you had that coming like you you very obviously did it and now you're looking at her in a threatening manner because I Do that.

If it makes it all the more shocking because like, they think, oh, brother has no idea. And, as we learned in season 4, he's got cameras in every room. He's got hidden cameras. He's got all the stuff especially, because in the script Brennan, says to call of the kid right away. But in the script it's implied and I really loved it.

And storytelling when they get something spelling out, something in the script, but then you imply it on screen, I think that, you know, show instead of tell is, you know, is still in Important. And I think that's also what the order of the scene is slightly changed, like the the scene where they're all standing in the room with the colouring, and I think that's why they did it. So that you, you get that implied and it builds that tension.

What words do you spell the whole thing out that tension doesn't build in the same way, so I thought that was really interesting. Yeah, so did I, it was again, it's a very tough scene to watch.

And sometimes I had sometimes, I'll just skip it because I can't, I can't watch it because, you know, I know I've, I've heard on some podcasts talking about Brenner this season in him in the flashbacks of, you know, earlier on, you know, he seemed like they made him seem Like a good man who, you know, probably misunderstood, who after this event became bad, but he was good before. And this scene right here, just goes to show, you know, he's what he is doing is bad.

I mean, I do and he's never been that guy. I don't wanna hear that. I'm like, what are we watching the same because from day one from season one, his character that is consistent all the way through. Through like, oh yeah. And and the scene that gets referenced in that is in episode one of season 4, when Brenner is with 10, like this is in the first 10 minutes of the episode and, you know, he's laughing and stuff and we don't, you know, we're not really used to seeing Brenner like that.

And I mean, you know, I I do think that very, very deep down in his own twisted. This way, you know, Brenner, you know, Carrie had a had some sort of affection for these children. I'm not going to say that that Martin burner hates children and so I will say it was kind of kind of nice to see a little bit of, you know, a little bit of a happy moment from Brenner.

But but still I mean, The fact that this is still this child is in the lab, doing these experiments and stuff and everything that Brenner's doing, he's still doing, you know, immoral things. And we can't you know we can't discount that now. I do think that what happened After this event, I do think that it really changed for are

from from bad to worse. You know, I mean, and that's kind of how we got in the burner of today and even when we see him in season 4 in the in the present day you kind of start to think, I mean after season one, you know, did he, did he change

any? You know, what's his life been like and And when we get to chapter 8 and he definitely, you know, goes off the rails and goes on hinge and slightly well, now he's still the same Martin. Brenner has he always was and he he's never going to let 11 just leave. Even if he took her back to Hawkins, they she did the deed, you know, he was going to take her back.

I mean, that there's no I probably would have chipped her as well like he did Henry. I mean it's almost no way what he was trying to. I was like, yeah. Yeah, I think you're right. I think he was the massacre hardened him so that any kind of like softness or affection, you could should have went away. You don't see any of that post Massacre, except there is the odd moment I think in season 4. But as we learned at the like I said and that's what I ate that.

We learn that. That is all been an act. He's not only putting on 4L, but he's putting it on for Owens and everyone else in the lab it is. Act to get what he wants and Owens doesn't realize he's being played. Like he knows that like he knows what his unhinged. Like, we see him comment on this so he's like he knows he's unhinged, he knows the guys, probably playing him to Summits and I'm sure but he's, the guy said retarded. He's so good at getting people to believe it.

He's so good at it and he convinces owns, the only way, and I'm sure it won't look into other options. And but this is the only thing they can find and like you Can you see that have a literal? He starts to realize like as there at the lab and hell isn't getting better like, you know, a time he's like he starts to look at better and be like, have I just completely destroyed like this poor kids life and her family in danger again and compromise my principles my

balls. My family safety for absolutely nothing like is he just doing this just screw with her like if I've been completely played here and you really see that so like No, I heard he went from bad for whoever to death part of him and yeah, he was never with the whole who ruined his love me. You'll be good. This wouldn't be present. And I was like, I wouldn't you met you made of a creature that from Predator? Freaking.

No. He said that but he didn't mean it. I'm like, oh like I'm weird to see that the conversation between Owens brother. And number one, tourist and Hopper. And She's in five because you know you'd never know what really happened on that car ride back, you know.

He gives them a sanitized version and you know, they know that to be yes there's maybe they don't but they're so excited to get back to their kids that they were like what I kind of my kind of driven to that was like, alright they know he's lying but they're like I want to get back to my kids.

So we're going to deal with this later but yeah, and boy and like that coming up. Now that that Hoppers been filled in about something, because, you know, I mean, I know this is, you know, two episodes from this one, but it has to be said, you know, when he and 11 reunite, he's not surprised at all by her hair. He doesn't say, you know, what happened to your hair? Why did you shave it?

You know, he just, they just go. Oh, your hair's just like mine, you know, very touching scene but also very telling because So it's just some things but there's definitely some bones left out as my point, there's definitely stuff.

I was locked out. Yeah, I mean, I think it is that there are saving that conversation for next season because it's just like, you know, the Apparently 11 and Mike, didn't talk anything about him, confessing his love for her and that long car ride either, which I Feast leave. But anywho so After a very brutal scene to watch, we get someone of a softer lighter scene.

We go back to Hawkins in the upside down with Steve Robin, Nancy, and Eddie, and they are headed towards the wheeler house because they the bats have circled around the other gate. They need a way to get out. They can't get out. Out with the bats are still there. So what do they need? They need weapons to be able to kill the bats and get rid of them. And so the police station can't walk. Always the police station because that's too far. But Nancy was like, oh, you know what?

I have guns. Let's go to my house where we can retrieve those guns, but before they get to the wheeler house, Eddie and Steve have a Talk or chitchat. And again it's basically verbatim you know Steve thanks Eddie for saving him and it is like yeah that was real Aussie.

Move you pulled back there and Steve courses like Ozzy and he was like yeah you know, took a bite out of that bat and Steve just he still doesn't get it. Apparently he is not Big pop-culture guy, which is surprising to me that way. But anyway, like biting the head off of a well-known now, but I feel like back then, like, if you were a Metalhead, you would know that, but I don't know other people would like, it would have been in the pig when it happened.

But like like, you know, is Steve reading the newspaper, you know what I mean? Like, I think it's not as well, may not have been as well known outside of metalhead circles back then. I don't know what kind of my take on it. Yeah, I mean, I totally totally agree. I can't really see. See Steve being into metal but I don't know. I kind of do see him as the type of watch MTV though. You know. Yeah we don't give you would not have aired that there's no way. Oh yeah back then they wouldn't

have now. I mean yeah. Yeah. Then because back then I was strictly music videos back. Then it was a nipple and not what it is today. Yeah. Um and so then, you know, they have this very touching conversation, actually about Dustin and I thought was very sweet because you know it's kind of like Steve is being reassured that you know, even though Dustin has found this new friend Eddie, he's still really looks up to Steve.

And I thought that was really cool of Eddie to bring that up, like hey man, you know, don't be jealous. Like you know, Dustin still, he's still crazy about you, man. And then we get Eddie because it's basically a monologue and itself, you know, talking about, you know, Robin and Nancy and how, you know, they jumped right in after Steve and he was just

scared. But there is a line in the script that is different from on-screen and that is when Eddie says, As quote I just couldn't accept that Steve Harrington was actually a good dude. Rich parents popular girls love him not a douche. No way, no way. And and then of course he does get the line about his own personal months and Doctrine but did the first part of that is not in the in the show. At least not when I watched it which made its point. The one about Steve Harrington

was actually good dude. Rich parents popular girls, love them now, that's okay. I don't remember that. Okay. Sorry, folks. There's a part though, there's a part that was so he's a Jasmine. I would get her back. Whatever it takes, whatever it takes is not in there. Gotcha, but it's slightly different, but that is in there, as a stancy shipper, I can

attest. The fact that that isn't there, not you, I should have, just let you do that run down, because I knew that you probably know that we had because I definitely the most notes about this section. I have many things to say. So yes, And and this is, you know, one of those things where they're in the upside down. And this is one thing that I kind of wish they would have done the season and hopefully next season, you know, the do this.

But I don't really know if by then, it'll have really even be important, but I wish they would have just had just, you know, maybe 30 seconds of them just walking in silence in the upside. Down so that we as the audience could listen, you know, I mean so that we could of heard, you know, the sounds of this place because in this scene you can

faintly hear in the distance. What sounds like Moaning, you know, kind of a little Roar type of thing, and I believe in season one, when Nancy is in the upside down. And then we're Hopper and Joyce, you're in there looking for Will, and correct me if I'm wrong on this Jasmine. But you don't hear anything like that then. But now, You know, you do when they're in it and season four. And that's why I kind of kind of wish they would have done that

in hindsight. I feel like there's a good reason why they didn't because they don't really want us to to, to have any semblance at this point in time of You know any army of monsters or beast because you know that comes to light. Well you know Nancy talks about that in the fall in the episode but yeah I just for my own personal enjoyment I would have loved to have them just walk around for a few seconds not talking so that we could you know just hear the sounds of the upside.

Down its arms. Yeah, they could have had, like, a few, even like a minute or half a minute before heading and Steve started talking where you could have heard it more. Yeah, I agree. Because like, now to the students, come here, I started analyzing it. I've heard people commenting. And so now, when I rewatch, I hear things I didn't hear before. But I think it's supposed to be faint in the background because

you're right. I think in the early Seasons, the only sounds you really here is like I think creaking about stuff around them and then you hear like Joyce when like Jonathan Nancy and Steve are fighting with a gorgon, she failed his boards, you can hear the voices like you can't with Dustin this season but I don't think you hear the other thing although, The Vines aren't there in the previous. Well, the vines are there but the like they're not quite as

advanced. It's not a kind of the dance stage of decomp. We see it in in season 4 and it sounds like the creatures and the place was involved since then. So I think you're right. I think it's they're trying to subtly show. The progression would be what I think they're doing but yeah that would have been that would have been cool.

Yeah. So then another earthquake happens in Robin. There was out the line of s of my least favorite lists earthquakes, which Robin I think you should probably get used to that for a home for a little while because it's going to happen again and then they finally get through the woods and Nancy, apparently knows to some familiar through the woods and it's the wheeler House.

She sees the world house and she says, come on, you know, and so they walk all the way past off, power lines through the upside down to the the wheeler house. And then We get some more imagery of the power lines and the Decay on them. Super cool shot and then we here Dustin save Steve do you copy Nancy Robin and we're back in the wheeler house but this time in the right side up and Dustin is of course in the bathroom

pretending to use the bathroom. He's sitting on an only you could get in the TS black toilet on his little radio saying we have been, we've been collared by the wall. I repeat, we have been collared by the law and then when no one answers he flushes and you know, says the s word and at the that line, well he doesn't say that directly in the script but it is on the screen and I was thought was kind of funny that he liked

I like that touch. They added of him saying that because it's like, you know, he was in there actually using the bathroom when he really wasn't. And then we cut to him, going through the living room past. Holly, who is playing with a Lite-Brite foreshadowing, I think yes. And then there's, you know, the officers police officers, you're

talking to the parents. and Lucas, he joins Lucas and the kitchen where they have discussion about Watergate and Then of course, Erica comes in and it's like, what are you guys talking about? And one of the my favorite lines from Erica about Gunsmoke and then about snow your guts cowpuncher which is just that the same makes me laugh. Like every time it's so funny and Then are Coastline bolts on

what you found on your bed, just like, what under your bed. and, Lucas just like really freaked out because he does not want Dustin today. When it's under his bed, which, you know, is really, we never, we don't know the answer to that and maybe we never will. But obviously, it's probably Playboy magazines or, you know, something gross like that. See. So then you know after much coercion from Erica, Lucas is fine.

Like hey you know what? I'll tell you we think the Killer is a dark wizard for the upside down, you know, we've been looking for him but he's in the also damn can't reach him but you know now we know there's a gate lovers like you know we just have to get there. and to the gate, you know, so that we can you know, I'll get the back NE but you know, the police are kind of in their way and we can't You never actually do anything about it now because they won't let us leave.

And then he's like, you know, if you do you think anyone about this goes? Mom and dad and Tina. And he does not like his not want Tina. Who was? I think Erica's friend, I think. That was. Erica's friend in season 2. I believe that's what we were fresh when she was first mentioned. And then he's like, you know, I'm he threatens his like, I'm gonna smother you in your sleep and Erica still like okay, whatever. And Lucas repeats himself. And this is all basically

verbatim. dialogue between the script and on the screen, but then, you know, you're because like, you know, why is there an open gate and lovers late, and she thinks and I really love You know, how how they included this. Because Erica thinks it's the Russians, the commies and she calls them and you look is like, no the commies.

They didn't, you know, they're not because this time, you know, they have as far as Lucas, you know, with our the same thing as like, as far as we know, you know, the Russians Are they have no connection with this fact, that guy at all, which we still don't know. You know, they really do or not. It's Still Still Remains unclear.

We didn't get an answer full answer to that in season 4, but yeah, Luke is like now I'm confident do it and they were who did and You know that she's like in every just opened up you know for fun and here because Lucas is like you have no idea what you're talking about and then Lucas, excuse me.

Dustin brings up. You know, when I really like you know this is quite he brings up is You know, she says she doesn't but she brings up an essential essential question and this is where Jasmine. I got our essential question for this episode from from the man himself Dustin, you know, he's like how did water Gabe you know to Gates have been opened so far 1 by 11 which was the mother gate and 1983 one by the

Russians. it's in season 3 and we know it's not the Russians or 11 this time and then he you know immediately in the script it get it says light bulb like he gets no gets an idea and then doesn't start spacing and then this is, this is verbatim in the script, is in those on screen, doesn't says there's one thing we've never understood which is why, you know, why is Jack back to killing people, you know what's his motive for killing teens? It's always seemed too random to

Prozac on top of that. How does the Mind flayer figure into all this? Maybe this is it, this is the answer. And, of course, you know, Lucas is like, what's the answer and then, of course, Karen comes in and is offering one of the officers, something to drink, so they have to leave. And so, Lucas and does the exit and go to Paul way and Erica joins them.

And then, you know, doesn't it's continuing to give his hypothesis and he's like any questions, how to 11 open the mother gate and Luke is like, she made contact with a Again and doesn't said socket contact and lose like just like that now when he cast his spell and so they go on hypothesizing and dozens light, you know what, if he's not simply killing, what if he's making a powerful psychic connection with his victims as a

connection. So powerful that it can tear up a whole and fabric kind of space and Lucas, of course. You know, answers the question, he's opening Gates and then why what? And looks like to take over the world. And then doesn't says it, who do we know who wants to take over the world? And Lucas says the Mind. Flayer and then the sand gets that big theory of. You know, what? If the demagoguery was just a foot soldier and what if that knows his five-star general, and this is a part Where many

people. There's there's two sides. One side thinks. Okay, Dustin was wrong this time. He's usually the one who's, right? The one that we look to for answers and then there's the other half who say, well he's right you know, meghna the Mind flayer is controlling veteran and not the other way around, and we're going to see that and season 5 and it's going to be You know, a big plot twist of this particle monster that vecna himself shaped into a spider

like being or form rather. It's controlling things. So Jasmine, do you? You have anything to say about

that? What I've just mentioned, Yeah, I think for me I think Justin's idea is a good one, but I think from what we see in the flashbacks that investment is, you know, talking to hell and showing things to Nancy, I wouldn't say I wouldn't say is wrong with these half right because they think that the Mind flayer is sentient and able to control things but we learn as the audience is that vecna

created the Mind flayer. So I don't think something you couldn't could be controlling you but Other people want to talk about how Victor Cruz said, we had one month of Peace in that has we know something happened that one month dark. So it's he talked about how demon who was, you know, taking residents in their home. If this demon Spirit thing Is part of the Dust particles that created them a part of the upside down, if that's all part and parcel of one thing.

I think it is it could be possible that that thing is influencing the kinetic energy to do what he's doing and has for that one month mark. But I do that, that specific amount that I get to take in the forward Market because it's behind you created. But I don't think sentient on its own, the miners doing that because the monsters we know exactly created it's impossible. The demon smoke monster particle thing is in charge and manipulating Henry. It has been since that day. Yes.

Lutely. But to that sort of thing that makes us in wrong. I just think it means he doesn't have all the information and I think it's either reverted like got rid of the big head onto her in charge and he's created the Mind player and the line player works very well though. I'm not into the monthly or sentient though because from what we've now. No. I'm like I think it's just a tool that vecna's using. I think that was kind of part of the reveal.

Either that, or it's all part. And parcel of this thing that's in control of everything including vecna, because I don't like it either. One of the other, I don't think it's the, The Twist where it's like, oh yeah, the mine players control, like sentient on its own, is controlling back. Now, just based on what we've seen, that doesn't make sense to me unless it's part of something larger on its own. But that's kind of where this kind of worker I fall on that.

I'm going to save my answer for that until we get to the end. But not because I don't have anything to say but because you know, I think it's just best. You don't say my answer for the N. That's right, folks, making you wait getting worse. But I mean yeah if you definitely want to skip everything else and just go to the end of today's episode of my answer. That's okay because it's going to look like we got a bunch of plays anyway, so it's good. Yeah, she have to win.

It's a win-win. And like I said, this is the part. I have the most notes on. So do you want me to kind of get into that or Is there anything else that you want to kind of address in terms of the question of the episode before I kind of get into my extensive notes on the scene? We're talking about the next scene of Nancy and Company, correct?

Well, my name's start from the beginning of like when they wind up in the upside down in, like, because it's into the into the, where they go into the right side out, I kind of have it all as one thing, like the upside down like the upside out of the Wheelhouse, in Birds up in the upset. I have all of my notes together. Gotcha, gotcha. I just want to say real quick before we move on to that. Erica says another fine line. You know, that was, you know,

she asked for them. To be kind and Rewind which is definitely not me definitely speaking for the audience there because it when I first watched it was quite a bit to take in, so I just wanted to throw that out there so Jasmine you can continue to your points. I love the Be Kind, Rewind as a 90° 80s or 90s kid Be Kind Rewind kids. These days we'll never know the The Blingo Blingo.

But is that how that was? You get the VHS with Blockbuster and the last person who had and did not reward and you're like now I have to rewrite this yeah it's got to go back today or you're gonna get fleas. You get fined and like like I have to quit you're like hey Todd you're trying to do it your mom's like we had to go I don't like we're why did the tape pieces? Well done or what the take comes out and sometimes it can't go back inaudible.

Sometimes if you get lucky it could have gone back in. But most of the time if it all came out you might as well just go and buy a new one. No, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So there's a different parts of these genes that are verbatim, is that she was talking about. I've noticed there's a bunch of, I think little changes that will probably either down the day or just kind of, you know, kind of, you know, adding cross checking things to see and as needed. But there are a couple of major

changes. I think the to that's took out two stuck out to me, was adding schemes conversation and then the scene where Nancy See Robert and Eddie are in her room in the upside down and do some of the that ties into the war. So I'll be sure to hear your thoughts on that.

Ashley. But to start off with something, I noticed was Robin starts the scene in the upside down, which is not in the script, so she starts the scene by asking if they could have tried a road or something less creepy and answer me assures her. So I noticed that they kind of beefed up, the interactions would be Nancy and Robin in the final product where you see much more of Friendship.

And I'm kind of getting to know each other and building that Rapport. You also have all more scenes where Robin is might want balls and taking that control or leading the scene. Which I think either naturally came out or I think, you know, they said they kind of play to the performances, the actors give them. So I think part of that was the place where you're like, oh, we need to kind of give more at my ahok more to kind of work with

here, you know. So I thought that was interesting and a good change kind of how they elevated Max this season. You know, when she didn't have as large of a role in the, the previous Seasons. There's a lot of descriptions in this scene. I really, really love the first is as they walked Steve sidles up to Eddie and in a very awkward guy way. I really love that that made me laugh. Laugh. And it's, you know, you can tell that the actors, you know, took that to heart.

I realized the line were the description where it says we can tell. This means a lot to Steve, when Eddie's talking to him about Dustin and how much the kid worships in, as I said before, the dialog here is a lot less formal more colloquial. What do you think? Would have probably been the actors, which makes sense because like the people writing, this stuff are significantly older than the agency's characters of me and the older

than the actors. So I think it's always great when you Your actors kind of be you know make it more colloquial. Otherwise it sounds very stiff and I love that they let the actors kind of play with it in that way. Steve tells Eddie to give himself a break which is not in the script so that might have been what you were thinking of when you were like, oh that one part isn't in the script. There are a few lines of don't make it in there. Some other things I thought were

taking, this is a direction. The script that says Steve tries to hide the fact that this means a lot to him when Eddie starts talking about, you know, Nancy. She thinks and she is still in love with him and, you know, her dad being was an unambiguous sign of true love. But in this scene, it's very obvious how much this means to Steve.

And I think that was a good choice because I'm trying to hide it. I think you would have come across, has always pretending like, he doesn't care and Steve has never been that way about Nancy. Not once so. I think that was the right way to play it. I think Joe came is right, you know, call there, you know. But I would get her back is in both, but he has a follow-up line, saying, I would get her back. Whether it takes is the script,

but not the scene. And I kind of feel like maybe that's because you know that Eddie had made his point until I felt like maybe that was like beating him over the head with it which wasn't really necessary. I mean his language I love but on a bigger sign of true love is great but also a little bit cheesy and I saw people comment on that so I feel like maybe they toned down other portions

of Is it because of that? Also, like again, this is, I think this is Curtis the actors in this script Steve is described as being flustered in this scene, but in the final product, he's very seriously. Taking wedding is saying to Heart, looking thoughtfully at Nancy and I think that was the right call because Humane flustered at the Creole House made sense. But in being cluster and that is why I think man she's clearly still in love with you.

I mean that doesn't really make sense it man. She's not saying it to him. It's Eddie this guy that he I didn't know that well like he's just getting to know so I think that was good cause I'm Jose Parks something that made me laugh was in this room. Steve says goddamn instead of Jesus on the earthquake hits but taking like Jesus becomes Eddie his catchphrase the season. So I thought that was interesting and I which makes me wonder if like obviously I didn't like Jesus. Christ.

When the batch come at them if that just be a running joke or if it has more to do with like how the actors would actually swear in real life? Good one. Yes. Wearing about something. It's like if you're saying something you wouldn't normally say it sounds really awkward so I love that that kind of became Eddie's catchphrase and you see that continued after I wanted your thoughts on this? I noticed that really epic shot. We have when they come out of the woods towards them get our

house. I did not catch any of this. First time through, but I noticed that when they go from the tree line to the winner has the upside down, there's something that looks like a shed or maybe a garage across from the wheeler house, like in the grass, but there's nothing out, except down the power lines and I went back and compared it and I was like, wait a minute, there should be other houses around

the wheeler house there. Other houses like on the cul-de-sac in the right side up but none of that is there in the upside down. There's just this once Said garage thing down, power lines and then the wheeler house and I hadn't noticed that I'm like, that's got to be intentional. But that has to be intentional because otherwise wanted to make it look exactly the same. So I was really curious as to what your thoughts were on. Why that is, why only the rear

housing is one shed? Like, what is that? Yeah, I kind of thought maybe it was a production issue because it's so dark that maybe you can't see everything. And um you know one thing I noticed to this season in general like whenever we went to the Wheelhouse like even in the right side up, it's how big their yard once the season, like something about it, look different than in previous seasons and we know that Lucas is And my core neighbors. But we don't know how far down from each other.

They live. We don't really know how far apart they live from their houses are from other neighbors. It's never been dressed. They never, I mean that was that, you know, one scene and season one, but the van, but this moves so fast you can't really, you know, tell a lot. Yeah, I don't know. Again, it could have just been like, production things. Or it could be intentional. I have no idea. I wish I knew but that's the only thing that I can come up with.

Yeah, I'm really curious about that because I re-watched it and if it's not 0 because it's dark, but I re-watch it and I'm like, no, these, their houses are not there. We don't the cul-de-sac, but I'm like, the very least there should be houses on either side of Nancy's because we never get an indication that like it's a house on its own or that it's

out with the very end. You don't even like if you're at the end of the concept called like a u shape, at the very least they should have a neighbor even if there's a really big like even if the yard is massive, Like I rewatched a couple times and I'm like, yeah, these are their houses should be there. So even if they're close to neighbor is quite far, it's still a cul-de-sac. If you can't be country, yard big, you know.

So I'm really curious if that's and I don't think it's production because I would have liked those shots were had been TDI anyway. So like, it would have been easy for them to pop in the houses or even just the side of a house.

You know what I mean? So yeah, I'm really curious as to what that was and it kind of to me, it kind of leads into okay or only certain things, duplicate the upside down because the theory that we've kind of been sold here is that what was an exact replica but with vines and it's kind of decaying but how accurate is that? Because it was close to that epic flyover shot this season and they chose not to. So I wonder if that would have given too much way too expensive.

I don't know but I feel feel like they're like there's got to be something there and it kind of demand leads back to if will somehow influence the upside down when he was stuck there like subconsciously or vector pulled something from his memories. Like certain things are obviously stand out and Will's mind like the wheeler house so that's going to be really clearly defined but the other houses around it probably wouldn't be because he's never

been in them. He doesn't know the people that live there. So like if we're going off that or like what that combined with what head and renew for the time, he lived there only certain places you're going to go to certain places would stand out to you at like 10 or 12. So I wonder if that's what it is. It's only place that stand out because we've only really Ali seen the wheeler house and the buyers house and the quill house

and the wheelers. The buyers are places that you know, of importance to will, he knows really well. And the cross is important to Henry so I wouldn't be surprised if we find out that all the other homes just want their where, I guess we see the trailer park, but that's where Chrissy died. So, do you know? I mean like it's the only places that are connected to something,

not the other places. So for me, there's something happened, when two people go in there like There's got to be, there's got to be more to it than that. Yeah. So I'm interested to see what that is. One of the thing I noticed too is just a bunch of notes in the part where they're in the right side up at the wheeler house. It's a like, see appendix to or see appendix whatever and I'm really curious as to what's in

those appendices. Because my sentence that I need to kind of either like background information or notes for the extra lines or like suggestions maybe for the other actors. Yeah, you have. I'm sorry. No. I was going to say so the the appendix is like, you know, an

attachment. So it's like, you know, how in the same like in the, in the show when You know, after Erica says, you know, please Be Kind Rewind, and then Dustin starts explaining then, you know, we Fade to the lights flickering and then, you know, we Fade Into the scene of Nancy and everybody else going to the Wheelhouse. So you know, you can hear dust and like explaining, you know, stuffed Erica as you know, they

fade out of that scene. So you know, when I read through the whole script, the appendices are like at the very end of the script and Just that it just gives you that dialogue of what Dustin was Dustin and Lucas were telling Erica.

And they were basically just explaining like everything, you know that's happened as far in the show's pertains to a little opening, the gate and stuff because Erica to my knowledge doesn't know about any of that because you know, just as I just read a few few moments ago, you know, she thought that The Russians were opening the eight again you know, and they're like no no that's not the Russians, you know, this time and so there

are kind of feeling her in so that was that's the where the appendix comes into play. Yeah, that's what I was, kind of wondering. That's what I kind of figured, it was, but thank you for that useful explanation.

And I would love to see, originated through to the appendices in this because like, I would like to see the lines of the direction of the other actors were given especially the officers in the parents because we hear pieces of their dialogue, like the fact that mr. Sinclair asked Chief Paolo, they need lawyers and he says no and obviously it's be faded. Now there's more dialogue so like I like I like the fact that like these people were given dialogue.

So they knew what to keep saying, even though they knew my denoting as an appendix that like okay we're going to fade out when you're saying this. So we're not going to hear most of it but just in case it was the background of a scene or when they chose to fade. But I think it's better than just leaving your actors and being like, I don't know. Talk about something like that, you know. Yeah. That must that would be

challenging something else. I noticed is that in the script, Dustin crosses through the TV room Room and sees how I play with her light bright, but in the actual scene, he almost bumped into her, in the kitchen holding the light, by which I thought was a good, like, I felt like that was better foreshadowing because it's like also that we would, like, kids almost bumped into you or you almost bump into them, then felt

more natural. And I thought that was cute, rather than him just walking past her. I don't know if it would have been as direct folder foreshadowing, and I also thought it was kind of A continent like again, show don't Elledge it showed us a lot very quickly, it showed that in the same way that like will basically grew up at the wheeler house ever. Everyone is so comfortable with Holly and she's so comfortable them that like you don't have a guest over you, behave

differently. They're so comfortable with each other that she's like like she's almost bumped into dust of their multi poop State. Like he's a good person and she was like, yeah, he just kind of keeps the motor in and that way the 1i kids do and it's not It's not a rudeness it's just like that's just how kids are going to go.

You know, when they're run, somebody that they're comfortable with and like a lot of them about how he is unfazed, occur parent her parents and everyone else's parents or in like the living talking about like do we need lawyers? Who could be arrested, Nancy's missing. And like holidays on bothers. Just like this happens every year. But I'm gonna just go play with my life, bro. You don't get results. Like don't worry. Don't worry.

She's fine, she's fine. She's but like, I feel like she's just so, Climatized and there's more Nancy and Mike and her then maybe her parents realized. Yeah. Karen made that comment last season. About, you know, I think it was quick to the hospital. You have this fight in you that I don't have. And we see that fight in Mike and Nancy. But we also see like how I can notice the trees were moving. She noticed will trying to reach

out to her. She's obviously, I think brighter than people are giving her credit for and this kid is unfazed where they're just like. Yeah. This is what It happens here. I think she just knows and she just kind of minding her own business. I wouldn't I wouldn't be surprised if that is there some kind of revealing the final season?

And where it's like, yeah, I've known the whole time, you know, it's kind of biding my time over here my own business, but I love that and this is a small thing, but I notice that Erica is drinking Minute Maid and not grape juice. Look at the script isn't, she's drinking grape juice and in the scene is Minute Maid. And I'm assuming that's a personal preference. I personally don't like grape juice either. So it appears like nah. I don't want I don't like grape juice.

I don't want to drink that or maybe that's just what they had. If you could think I was thinking of you mentioned this but what is the deal with Lucas and Tina? Like why did he says like especially if you try to it especially Tina and that's the same Tina from season three with like I'm supposed to be, he discovered me, I'm so sorry, Uncle Jack's party. Who the heck is Tina?

And like what is the deal between like it seems to imply the like whatever Lucas order is better something to do with Tina. Like who is Tina? How old is Tina? What is this? We should with Kida like that guy. I think Tina is might be Erica's friend, where his friend? Yeah. And could be a blabbermouth and that's why Lucas doesn't want Erica to tell her but I also thought, you know, maybe if Erika has a babysitter it could be Tina. I don't know.

We've never seen Tina. She's only ever been mentioned. Hopefully, we'll We'll see Tina next season, I want you to roll up. I want, I want all these people. They've been mentioning to suddenly just like I don't know like Tina. What if she's a baby selection tennis wanted to look it up for Holly or something, just like it. Yeah, that would that would be great. And I also think, you know, they joked about not wanting to add to what even characters next

season. I think a great way to accomplish, you know, not not explaining the cast two months but Your story is, if you bring up characters, you've already meant to your who've been in the background or appeared in previous Seasons, you're not bringing in new characters, but

you are expanding. So I think that would be a great solution because I've said this before and I'll say it again, the only new character they need to, as a love interest for will, there is no, there is no purpose to me to adding a random other new character with what they've set up this time that wouldn't just blow up the cast. And like, I don't think really Serve a purpose. So I would really, really love to see that and this is a change.

I really really liked. So in this scene Lucas says, you know, do you copy and that's it. But in the actual scene we see, he says, do you do you understand? And he slides forward on his arm and says do you copy? And I love that. Like, that's between him and Erica is fantastic, and it perfectly. Capture that sibling Dynamic? Yeah, just the the physical acting between Caleb and then pre-owned that scene is just awesome. Like it's so much fun. Let's see. What is pretty much?

Identical. I learned from this group that, that random officer that Karen's offering the soda to is Officer Daniels. I was like, oh, okay, that guy has a name. I feel like maybe more contacts in the script of kind of got hooked back up, which makes sense. Yeah. But yeah, but that guy's name is over there and to be honest, the first time through I thought that was one of the deputies. I didn't clock that. It was a. I thought that was it was only the two of them.

There, I can always other guys in the background, but I just I didn't even clock them as a different person because that's not the focus of the stay in the focus of the scene, is the kids talking in the kitchen. There are going to be laughs was so in the script, the line was Luke's deadline is saying that L made contact with the devil G in the.

And I don't know if this was like a bluebird on Caleb part of what this was, But in this, in the final scene has changed you, she contacted the demagogue on which one are you watching? I'm like, it makes it sound like she phoned him, it makes it sound and called him. Yeah. Like that feels like maybe he forgot the word and they just and the Restless scene was good. So they just went with it. Like yeah like that. Yes. Take like in some other like Erica's line to this entirety or

pure gold. She's super hilarious. But once it got me were holy shit, that was the incomprehensible. and yes, you know, does he talks fast anyway so that's also why, you know, yeah, that made me love what you think she's to garden and she is like Yeah, or like lurkers line as we Fade Out. So, what was that giant laser?

Like just her like over the fact like a background character to establish loses home, life to being like so full of like staffs and amazing hilarious lines like they really show her. Yeah. Improv and her acting chops in this and I love that. Yeah, and what I really like about Erica, you know, only the same but just in this episode, in general, you know, with her dialogue is She's basically the audience and in this moment and that's like us going.

Well what was all that about? A lot of the you know that happen please be quiet kind of rewind like this is all a lot to take in and one time you know. So I really love you know, not only how that was written but also how it was acted out on the screen. Yeah, I totally agree and then when we get back to the into the upside down, I don't sit Robbins line about the made a slightly different. I think it's better in the final version is more congenial, which I love. This is a small thing.

But in this, when they go to Nancy's room in the shoes, the in the shoes in the show, the final version. The shoes are red in the front. This is a shoes are red. But in the final scene there, right there, that was interesting. And I don't know if that's significant or if that's just they found they had whites used on hand or if that look better or pop or ice cream or something. I didn't Robbins, I basically say the same thing but they're slightly different, you get more

colloquial. This is something. I also noticed in the scene where Nancy and Steve talked in the woods that the they kind of a short up. They just the timeline. So Holly is B5 in the script. But six in the final version I think that just somebody went in and we counted as if you know, there had an issue with Will's birthday cough, cough. They really should have counted for the entire script or, you know, had Winona can look at it.

But likewise I think of the script Steve says that either, you know, they broke up three years ago and I think in the final version it's too. So like they adjusted the The timeline to make that line up. I think they they were a bit off when they were writing kind of also noticed it like in that scene and he grabs the cue cards first, but not in the script, she grabs of later the flashbacks with Steve are in the final version of the script, which I think is good.

Because like as a Big Stan, see that I've made Lee was like, oh my God, but if that's not your ship, that's not your ride or die, I get that people. In the audience might have been like Like wait, what is this have to do with anything? Like what? What's with the cue card? So, I like that they connected that for for the audience. I don't know that. Always pain do that, it wasn't in the script because the actors don't need like, that's an editing note. So maybe that's why.

I something I thought was interesting in terms of major changes was the final version calls more attention to Stephen energies relationship. Then the script like this, in the script, it's kind of incidental, but in the final version, we see it's much more prominent. It's much more of a focal point in that scene as viewers were really articulate as drawn to it.

And I think that that's because, you know, as you're trying to do set up for The Following season, I think there was a lot of really good work done for this season where, you know, like I said it's a show for smart people there, expect you to get it. They're not going to hold your hand, they're basically kind of showing this what they want to direct our attention to do in terms of the editing and what them flashbacks and what they're showing us. What do you think was interesting?

Because I said this is my last trip so we did but that in the script you know, Nancy's T-bird, like, you know, 1% idea, then the others following words in the final version, they are much

more of a team. They're reading this together and they really played into the chemistry, those actors have and be like, okay, this is where we're going, this is what we want to call your attention to. And so once they started like, you know, you know, like London and filming the set of our, okay, we need to move with this because that's going to create a

better record of Becker seeing. Yeah, and it's kind of funny because this saying this the saying about always is where we learned that the upside down stuck in 1983 but this scene and the scene that comes way after it, which is the Henry curls monologue, which we're definitely going to get too soon. I'm really excited about that. But it did the both of those scenes are very different from this. Script to the screen like they're the dialogue and everything.

It for the most part is is different. And for this scene in particular, I actually like the on-screen version a lot better than this one because the on-screen, you know, really grabs you, it really grabs your attention of hey like where'd not on the same timeline like it's really weird. You know that there Rules are parallel, but they're not moving together in terms of time and

space. And but also another thing that I really noticed while Nancy and them were walking through the house and got to her room in this scene and she's picking up everything. And I just noticed, you know how interesting it is that even though they're in the upside down in this, This apparently it's, you know, been copied from the natural world, it's everything.

So tangible as though they were in the right side up and I found that very, very interesting and I hope that is explained next season, because, you know, if it's just, if this was from credit from, someone's memory or whatever, you know, how is it there? Everything's Of tangible. And that's, it's it's very interesting to me. And to be honest with you, You know what? I'll First Watch the saying. Well not really first wash it but over time I kind of thought You know, one of the upside down

is not actually stuck. What if this was just vecna trapping Nancy because you know after immediately after this he gets her but then I'm like I don't really know because if that were the case they kind of would have told us that but since the doctors have said yeah we're gonna learn the answers to do all that and season 5 I'm kind of drawn that theory to the Wayside but um this is probably Only, you know, other than the the big bang reveal this one was probably my favorite scene in

this episode because it was definitely wait way out of left field. Like I did not see this one coming. I was like oh my gosh another layer another yet. Unexplained unanswered question. But you know it's intriguing and it's interesting. And I loved it. And that's why we decided to have this scene. Be our last scene that we're going to talk about today on part 3 because we wanted to go out with a bang on this because there's we got a lot of others.

You know big stuff coming up because we get the light bright scene after this which is really amazing but we're going to save that for next time. Jasmine you have Any final thoughts on this scene or any other seen that. We've talked about today and then after that, I will give my answer to today's essential question Jasmine. Alrighty. Yeah. I think again, this is the other big twist in the episode and so I think that's why this scene probably had the most changes.

You can tell. I think they did change a lot kind of the day off when they were doing this. I think partly because the Or they wanted to get it right? But partly they wanted to kind of finalize what they were drawing our attention to like things I noticed is that the order of what he points to in the room and what objects you point out some of them are the same but some of them have

changed. Again there's a time you know they kind of fix the timeline you know like in the scriptures as well that you gave the animal to her cousin Joanna, two years ago, the same time, her identity program but in this unit, You just as I gave this, you don't because I'm Joanna, the parts about the timeline where she picks up the diary that's in the final verdict, but not in the script. I think they put that there to carbon explain it to the audience, I feel, they went to film this there.

Realize, oh we're not giving the audience enough to, to go off of. So I'm really glad that they may change the scene. So for us, the reviewer, we can understand where things are at. I think that was a good change. Pause. Well other we got more static content out of the updated seen. Also, they give us the exact date when the upside down Frozen, were the script doesn't?

So we see the exact date in writing, we see Nancy talked about, she talks about the timeline, you know, we kind of get a clearer picture as much as we can and something I really good change that they made. Is that in the script Nancy. He's a photo of her and Steve and said she threw it out three

years ago. One that time on is off to what I read that line in the script I'm like I'm glad they kind of that because that's like I'm makes no sense because even the give me one thing it's The Break-Up in her and Steve was really acrimonious thing but it wasn't like Steve was the kindest about it could possibly be basically gave her his Blessing. Not to me it wasn't an acrimonious split like you know they didn't hang out after But they stayed friends. So throwing out.

A photo is something you do in Anger. Also, this is the 1980s. This is a time period and younger people who understand this, but this is a time period, where like, if you got rid of something, it was gone forever. There was no getting it back. Like, you couldn't just reprint the photo. Like, and from the first names you can, we do see a lot of, a lot of those photos were like Photo Booth photo booth photos and stuff.

So, I read that, I was like, that makes absolutely no sense data that should be like, I'm so mad about this completely Lie like, you know, amicable breakup, I'm gonna throw out this photo that I can never get back that made no sense.

And I feel like that must have come out when they were doing the rewrites the day of and the command, like you break up with somebody came from my own experience like, you know, you put that stuff away, you don't throw it out unless it was a really like, unless it was like, a really acrimonious split from that, they change. X deadline didn't really know. Make any sense. I think they were just kind of

spitballing. What how they were going to show this and I think the final version the final version makes more sense and it connects kind of the fries and we'll and the gate and Stevens relationship and also like they're also trying to explain it to Eddie and he's super confused but I think they like Eddie kind of stands in for the audience there. And then getting to the end of the scene, when they come back downstairs, Steve, I love the

description in the script. It says Steve looks like an angry man yelling at the sky or something. What are you trying to like communicate with Dustin?

I love that. Um, and I also like when I think clearly did this for comedy and it's once again a direction, this was clearly a direction of the day of because in the script like they have like Steve looks like an angry man yelling, this guy or something and then literally right after that the following moment, every desk in here, Dustin, but in the final version Steve's yelling and there's a beat in which all the other characters are looking at them and being like did he

really get rabies like because I can't hear anything? And then it's a full beat and then they hear him. So that was always important for creating value. I thought that works super well. Like, that is like, that was hilarious. And you got to see, like the concern, like, at first, and he was like, what the heck are you doing Ben? And then, you can see where heard Robin started to get concerned.

There went from like, dude, what are you doing to being like, Oh my God, stay actually have rabies like, oh my God, and they hear Dustin and they're like, okay, it's not, it's not him, he's okay. And then again, this is just what happened with will when he was down here. You know, there you go. Let's go figure out how to communicate with him. Via the lights just like Joyce. Yeah, exactly. Wholly. Different other scene which we would definitely get to a bitch.

Absolutely. My final thoughts of, this are something I noticed is that Steve and Nancy. Are much more of a team when trying to get the lights to work, like, in the script. That's not the case. Everybody is trying to get the lights to work. Whereas in the final version, Steven NCR a team, like they both realize what the other one is talking about and they're like, okay, let's get these lights to work.

I'll try this. Which try this, whereas Robin and Eddie or crime standing backwards makes again. I think they treat us because that made more sense of the final version Robin, and Eddie don't have the experience that He and Steve do, but they've seen how the lights work on, the right side up, they both know. And so then be more of a team, I think made sense because you have two people who are coming from the same place of understanding.

And then you have, you know, they have a history, they were in a relationship, they've stayed friends and you have two people. One of whom has some experience, one of whom has none. It makes more sense for them to kind of hang back and kind of take Nancy and Steve's lead because they have more experience. They are a team. They are united. Robin has obviously like extremely stressed out and scared Eddie's like doesn't know what the hell's going on.

So I think in those kind of situations, you look to people who know more, you look to that calm presence and Nancy as he really provided that like joint leadership throughout their storyline and throughout the season.

So I thought it was a really great addition because it played out there because chemistry really well and it makes like I think that group dynamic makes a lot more sense in the final version and the script version, the script version I think Giving Robin and Eddie, you know, what they're comfortable, like a level of comfort that I don't think they would actually have 0, and this is something I just, I just loved. So, in the script, the shimmering lights is a lamp.

But in the final version, It's a light fixture which was a good call, because that looks so much cooler. But never reaching up to the light fixture of the dining room table, so much cooler than a random lamp on the table. Like so much cooler hundred percent cooler, like that to me, feels like they got on set and they were like, oh, you know what, we could do this or they do. They try to where the lamp and they were like, wow. That looks like. Yeah, exactly.

So on that note, I will give my answer to the today's essential question and then we'll get you guys out of here. So if if the what happened In episode 9 with you know the vapor revealed vecna formed. What? We know as the mine fire I would have been like yeah it's very possible that the mine fire is controlling vecna he just doesn't, you know, realize it yet. But considering that that scene isn't there? In apparently Henry, Krill has has had that within him since he

was a child draw. Drawing pictures that looked exactly like that figure when he was 12 years old and the attic of his home. I've think I think that Nina is definitely the one who formed the spider monster Shadow Magic. Whatever you want to call him on fire and he is in control of it. I think you know that's why I mean I think that's what really

connects. To the hive mind everything and why he is, I think it's helped him be even more powerful because there's all sorts of energy within that cloud that we see when he formed the Mind flayer. But if you know, I also could see a Frankenstein situation here in that. The real monster was the doctor Frankenstein who created. Dad the monster that everyone thinks is Frankenstein, but it's really not. That's the doctor. So I'm not going to rewind.

You'll just have to really listen to this explanation for that. But yeah, that's my, that's my take on it. So I don't think that Dustin was incorrect nor do I think he was correct, but I do think he was very much on to something. Obviously, we just didn't, you know, get anything on screen of 11 telling him and everybody else. What vecna told her about what happened, once he got down to the upside down, if she bandaged

him. So, I think that will be something that they're going to save till next season for them all to come together and have discussions on this too. Phil to feel everyone in. So once again, thanks everyone for joining us today. Jasmine. I as always had a blast talking about this and hope stay tuned for next time because you know, we're definitely going to get to

the light bright scene. And although you know as much as we can until we get to probably what everyone really enjoys about this episode is the big reveal that vecna is Henry is One. So with that this is Ashley and Jasmine saying thanks again everyone for joining us and we'll see you guys next time and overran doubtful over now.