Ep 419: Listener questions about leadership (Part 3)

haven't gotten through yet. You know, we tend to want to answer questions from listeners that are very specific to something that one of our listeners is going through, a kind of a real world example of something that we can help out with, and you know, sometimes we gravitate less towards the questions that are kind of generalized or in theory. But I think a lot of these are important questions to answer. They may not just be able

to fill up an entire episode. So we want to go through this list of questions that we've kind of kept in the hopper from our listeners who have you know, reached out to us via LinkedIn, Instagram, text message, email, and kind of go through that list because they are important questions and if one person's reaching out to ask them, then clearly others have the same questions in their mind too,

or you know, maybe something they're they're worried about. If you haven't listened to these episodes for the last two Mondays,

please go back and do so. We've we've covered some great topics on The first question I want to tackle in this episode was sent by a listener six months ago now, and they were wondering about generational differences in the workplace, because there's there are a lot of not just organizations, but actual teams where there could be two, three, or even four different generations of people on the same

team being led by the same leader. And clearly the leadership style needed in order to lead a team of people that are of multiple generations is different. You have to be able to lead people and meet them where they are, and different generations, they are potentially or almost definitely looking for a different type of leader, you know, than someone of a different generation, someone who's twenty or thirty years older or younger than that. They might be looking

for a different type of leader. And it's important if if a leader wants the entire team performing at a at a high level, then they need to be able to lead everybody. And so so the idea of generational differences impacting the leadership style. I think it's a really

important one. I think I think a lot of leaders they might, you know, they might find it easier to lead people who are of the same generation as them, or maybe one generation removed from from who they are, but they might find a harder time doing it from somebody who is two or more generations removed from their own.

easier ways of leading through generations. I think in my experience, and you know, coming up in retail, you know, even the generations, the generational differences, everybody's kind of doing the same thing, which that that does make it much easier because those connection points, the dialogue, the conversations can really revolve around, you know, the work that's being done and

kind of getting to know people through that work. I think there are many industries where typically the different generations may play different roles because those have been people have been around longer, they've had a chance to have more experience, they're they're doing things that maybe on the surface might look similar, but there's definitely some differences in the work as a result of people that have more experience and

more tenure in the jobs. And I think that can make it a little bit more difficult if you're you know, if you're leading a team like of an lists and you've kind of got you know, brand new analysts and then you've got like senior analysts and then you've got you know, like like that that change not only in maybe you know, capability and uh and the job can

many times be because of tenure. And then that of course, then tenure means somebody's been doing it longer, So there's a chance that there is a generational gap there that can be much more difficult if there are different expectations for the jobs and different levels of you know, of work that needs to be done, because even though you may be talking about the same things, you're gonna have

to talk about them in different ways. And then you're you're you're spending time as a leader talking to someone who's probably maybe done the job they're doing longer than you've been a leader, right, And and that again that that that can make it difficult, and that can happen in other industries too, where people are doing the same job, but typically over time there's an evolution there around, you know, kind of growth and commonality of goals and adjustments and things.

So I don't know, I think that it is definitely my experience, it probably is impacted more for leaders in

different industries across the way. And which is why I love these kind of questions because even though we might we might not have this happen to us or or experienced it very often, there are definitely other places in other industries where this is much more prevalent and requires, you know, there to be an openness and a curiosity about getting to know people and individually the people on your team, and I think that could be really helpful in closing some of those generational gaps.

that the people in those roles, some of them are looking at it as a stepping stone to something bigger and they want to move up or go on, whereas other people might just be looking at it as they're happy where they are, they don't want to move up, and this is their career. And then so they end up having a lot of tenure in those roles, and you end up with you know, older people and younger people doing the same role because people you know don't

want to move up. I think I think a lot of this is is misclassified as generational differences, when in actuality it is you know, the leadership style is just that. I think some leaders have a difficult time leading people who are one or two generations older than who they they are versus one or two generations younger than who they are, because there is a kind of like an an inherent belief that oh, I have to I have to show these people that I am qualified to be here.

To be to the leader of this team, that that there's almost like this assumption going into the relationship that you're working from a deficit, that the person who's looking at you as the leader is thinking, oh, I've been doing this job longer than you've been with the company, or you know, since you were in high school or whatever it is, and and that that person goes into the into it thinking that they have to overcome that.

And while I'm not saying that doesn't happen, I think acknowledging that sometimes can exacerbate the problem, and talking about it from a standpoint of what what is? What are the people on your team looking for from you as the leader and starting there and commonality in the job that they are doing can can break the ice from

that standpoint. But I also think that you know, regardless of who a person is and what generation they are a part of, there are some commonalities between all people in terms of what they're looking for, just because the expectations of leaders have changed over time and the transparency and availability of information out there for what makes a good leader, and you know, people who've worked for different jobs and different leaders and their opinions of what makes

a good leader versus a bad leader. You know those things. The availability of that information can help leaders find that commonality and focus on those things rather than focusing on

the differences. And so, you know what, whether someone is, you know, twenty four years old and in their first job after college, or doing the exact same role and they are fifty two and they they been in the workforce for you know, thirty years, the things that people want are they want a leader who is supportive of their goals, which at whatever they are. So if my goal is to move up, I want a leader who supports my wanting to move up, whatever that looks like.

If I'm wanting to stay exactly where I am and not move up, I want a leader who supports my belief in terms of what micromanaging versus leaving me alone. The proper level of support is for the job I'm getting done. If I am in the middle of my career and I feel like I can bring a lot to the table from a knowledge standpoint, I don't want a leader coming in and trying to prove to me that they are able to do it by their words.

I want them to acknowledge the knowledge, skills and abilities that I've brought to the table for the time that I've been doing it, and leverage those things in the secution of whatever the goals are. To show me that that what I bring to the table is valued, not try to just show me that, oh you can trust me.

I've been doing this a long time too. It's like, if you have to say it, then you and then at some point you'll you'll give the impression to your people that you don't have the actions or the skills to back it up. So you have to say it instead sometimes just doing it and moving through it and showing that whatever you don't have to bring with you, that you can leverage that from your team and that

you know who the right people are. I think a lot of that is where leaders can can do this the right way as opposed to the wrong way.

because you don't understand what I went through thirty years ago. No, like, no, like, it's not that's not where I don't I don't ever hear that. I think you may you don't understand me because you don't maybe understand my perspective, or you're not seeing it from my viewpoint, or or you're not hearing what I'm saying as I'm explaining you know, why this would be an issue or why this could be an issue, you know, and I'm pulling this form maybe something that

happened many, many, many years ago. So it can feel like it's because we're from different generations, but the reality is you're just not listening to me, right, You're not You're not giving me a response or or attention to what I'm saying, and you're not taking into account my many years of experience that can help us in the situation. So I love that you said that because I was just having a conversation with someone the the day around, like you know, do more and direct less, you know

what I mean? Like, like, there's a lot of times in leadership where we want to give advice or perspective, or we feel that like giving direction on how to go do something is the best way to handle it. They don't know what they don't know sometimes, or they're showing you in their actions they actually don't know how to do it, even if they are telling you they do,

like the actions show otherwise. So instead of spending so much more time continuing to direct or being more clear or whatever the case is, just say, let's go do this, like, go do it, Go show them, go be a part of it, but also be transparent enough to tell them that, say, hey, hey, Chris, you know what, Like, I've realized that I've been doing

a lot of directingly. I've been telling you a lot of things that I like for you to go do, and and I know that I see you doing these things, but I also see that that you're not getting the outcome that you're looking for, like like it's not having the impact that you want. So I'm going to change into what I'm doing here. We're gonna do this together. I'm gonna do it with you right, And I want to make sure that I can see your vantage point. I want to make sure that I can role model

for you what this would look like. I want us to do these actions together and then we're going to talk about them after each one to kind of see what did I see? What did you see? What could

we have done differently? How could we adjust this? But I want us to spend more time doing this together than just talking about what we're going to go do, and let's see if that's going to have a more impactful outcome to what you're looking for in your business, Like go have that conversation, you know, I think that's that's critical and that will then you know, that will go beyond any type of a generational potential gap that might be be had in communication or perspective or experience.

other people who don't have that experience. And let's be honest, there could be a lot of experience that somebody has that is not relevant to the current job because the expectations of the role have changed, the expectations of your clients, your customers have changed. But that doesn't mean that you can cast that experience aside and say there's no value there.

It has value from a standpoint of learnings, because you learn over time, and you get better over time, and you and if a person is able to do a job for a lot of years, then hopefully that means that they've had to change over years too, they've had to acquire new skills. And I love the context that you put that in from when you said, you know, you're doing these things that I'm asking you to do,

but you're not getting the outcomes that you want. And I think that's such a crucial way to put it, because the wrong way to put it would be to say you're doing these things, but you're doing them incorrectly, because now it becomes subjective. It's like oh no, oh, your ways better than my way. It's like, well, yes, technically it is, yes, my way of telling you, do this is better than your way, but I'm not going to tell you that, because the objective way to look

at it is the outcomes that we're looking for. And a person might be able to come back at you and say, well, why is your way better than my way, and then you get into an argument about the subjectivity of the ways that are better, But you can't argue the outcomes. The outcomes are what they are. And so in the context of hey, you know you're doing these things exactly like I'm asking you to do, it looks like you're not getting the outcomes that you're looking for.

There's no way to argue that either they are or they or not. The scorecards, the results, the profits, whatever

they are, whatever the measurement is you're looking at. If that's not there, by definition, they're not getting the outcomes that you're looking for, and so that kind of diffuses the situation, I think, from a standpoint of trying to tell them that they're doing something wrong and saying, hey, let's let's go work at this together, because at some point both of you, the leader and the employee, both

of you want the same outcomes. You want whatever those positive outcomes are you want the expectations met, And if you can get past the idea of somebody's doing something right or wrong and move on to how can we get the outcomes you're looking for, then then you've gone about it in a way that preserves their dignity and preserves their belief that you value what they've brought to the table without kind of casting that aside, but with

also not shirking your responsibility as the leader that says, you know, I have a responsibility to deliver an outcome here from each of the people on my team, and whatever it takes to get there is the right way way. So the catharsis that some leaders get from, you know, taking somebody to school. Stop stop with that. You don't

need the catharsis of taking somebody to school. You want the good feeling of the win that says you got somewhere with people as a team and that they looked at you as someone who was able to support them in getting there, even if they don't even realize that's what's happening in the moment. If you've gotten the win because you've gotten them to deliver the result that is being looked for, then that's a win period. Even if they believe they got there completely on their own, that

part doesn't matter. Your role as a leader is to get them there, even if you have to swallow your pride for a few minutes, honor what they brought to the table, and then figure out a way to work to get the proper result.

going to value different things. Talk with each of them individually about what their goals are or what they want to do, not from a standpoint of trying to prescribe goals to them, but from a genuine curiosity standpoint of hey, how can I support you? Because asking somebody how you can support them is not the same thing as saying how can I help you get to your goals? Because what if their goals? What if they can't articulate what

their goals are at the moment. What if they're not trying to move up, what if they're not trying to promote. What if they're just happy where they are and you want to make sure that they are delivering high performance results. Then it starts by saying how can I support you? And they will tell you whether it's they want to move up, or they're happy where they are, or they want to get better, whatever is they can say to you,

But don't focus on what their goal is. Focus on what you can do to support them, and the goals will naturally come out. If it's important that everybody on your team has goals, but you can find what they are, whether it's getting better at this one skill that they may not be excelling in, or if their goal is to promote to the next role in the next six

months or a year. Those are very different things, but you as a leader have to be able to bring to the table whatever you can do to support those people in accomplishing those things, while while honoring the fact that whatever they're telling you their goal is it is the right answer. Like whatever they're saying is the right answer. You just have to know that it can change at

a moment's notice. Maybe they don't want to promote because they've never worked for a leader that was able to support them, and now in the face of a leader who is supporting them and accomplishing these little things, maybe they decide they want to promote or they want to move up with an organization. You'll never know that unless you start with us from the standpoint of just, hey, I want my entire team to be high performing. How can I support you in in accomplishing that goal together?

you know, thoughts and advice. And I mean, I've been in situations where simply I've just said, like, look, I you know, I can tell you that you've got more

life experience than I have. I know that you've you know, had an opportunity to see other organizations, other jobs, other careers, other industries, right, and so I want to have a different conversation with you than I would maybe some of the newer employees that this is their first job or the something new to them, Like like, what do you see in our business that you know we could adjust

that could help us to be better? Like what do you see in my leadership that could be adjusted to be more inclusive of the entire team, Like I I want to leverage somebody who has seen, you know, and experience more life than I have to help to make sure that I'm aware of my blind spots and that I can see things through a different lens from time

to time. So I just love that intention of those conversations, but I think it will always boil down to just that individual connection and individual interaction and making sure that people feel seen and hurt right right.

older than they are. I think a lot of times leaders can have difficulty bringing that level of humility to the table because they can think, oh, I need to show my strength as a leader because this person's going to be judging me and saying, you know that, thinking naturally that I don't have the ability to do this because I'm twenty years or thirty years younger than they are.

And if you go into it thinking that that's where where they're gonna come from, then you'll make it happen anyway, and you'll end up killing the relationship or at least starting from a massive deficit. So if you go into it by kind of just disarming that whole thing by coming in with the humility, then that stops the person from interacting with you from a standpoint of thinking, oh, this person thinks that they know more than me. It's like,

maybe you do know more than them. Actually, maybe you know more than them even though you're twenty years younger or thirty years younger. But it doesn't matter. If they think that you think that, then that is a problem in terms of what they will do to operate at a high performing level or to engage fully with the team. And so that humility is just so important. There's no

other way to do that. It's kind of like the kill them with kindness kind of thing to kind of allow people to disarm themselves from those defense mechanisms and instead focus on, Oh, this might be a different kind of leader, someone who's approaching this differently than the people I've reported to in the past.