Welcome to Hacking Your Leadership. I'm Chris and I'm Lorenzo. And Lorenzo. On this episode, I want to talk about a listener question that we received on LinkedIn. This is a pretty interesting one. It's one that resonated with me in terms of the some of the things that I struggled with earlier in
my leadership career. A person wrote to us and said that one of the things that they struggle with in terms of leading a team is that they find themselves constantly choosing between jumping in and doing the work of their team or holding them accountable to the work they're supposed to be doing and delegating it for them.
And the context of it is that they often find themselves struggling to quantify what they do in terms of leading their team, and so they take these these opportunities to jump in and do the work of their team because it makes them feel good like they actually did something. Then they realize after the fact, I shouldn't have done that. I need to hold my team accountable. But they struggle with making that happen, especially in terms of the fact that
they're a new leader leading a new team. I like this a lot. Again, it's something I struggle with and I think other leaders struggle with it too. Yeah, it is definitely one of the things that I think everybody has to struggle through it. It's not one of those things that you figure out right away, because if you if you're too far one way or the other, meaning that you never jump in and help your team or you always jump in and help your team, that's when it becomes like a really stand
out, major type of an issue. Typically, it's that we all struggle with it because we realize that you kind of have to be somewhere in the middle, and it's very kind of dialed into what is the thing, Like there's a difference between hopping in to go do something that anybody else could do because you want to not do something else, like you're avoiding some of the other work, and so like logic, go do that, and then I'll tell everybody like, oh, I'm gonna go do this, and then try
to sell it to yourself. Is like, see, I'm just I'm a servant leader and I'm role modeling the behavior and this is what I do, which like right, yeah, exactly, but you just don't want to do the other thing versus the times when your team actually needs your help and the best way to add value in that moment is to actually go and do the thing with them. Like like those I think the things that you do have
to struggle through and figure out as a leader. And as you go through it though, like this this listener, it can be very much like tearing at you a little bit and feeling like was that the right call? Did I do the right thing? Am I going too much? And then a lot of times as well, and I've experienced this is that you know, young like younger in your leadership career, you're going to have other leaders and mentors that have figured this out. They've kind of been like nope, like
these are the times that you jump in. These are the times that you kind of like step back and then you delegate and that type of stuff, and they will be really clear to tell you how they feel about it, whether they thought you did it right or wrong. Like that's the other thing that you get. It's kind of like those that are just like, oh, yeah, well you shouldn't have done that right, And then it's like, well, what should what should I have done? Well, you should
have delegate, you should have but also like they weren't there. It's like they you know, again they've learned through experience. But it's just one of those unique things where I think that you you have to be open to jump in. You don't want to be above the team or above the work, but you also have to be conscious of the responsibilities that you have and being
able to do the things that only you can do right right. So one of the things that this listener says that the reason they struggle with this is because they they look at themselves as having a high level of work ethic. And part of the reason that they tend to do this is to kind of jump in and do the work for their team is because, and this is their words, they prefer to be seen by their own boss as doing you know, extraordinary work, you know, being able to jump in and get
everything done. And when I read that, I thought, yep, I can relate to that feeling. And then when when I've been in situations where I've been a leader of leaders, I remember thinking, Wow, this person is jumping in doing all this work, and and I didn't see them as being doing extraordinary worker, having high level of work act. I saw that person as being unable to delegate and unable to do the work that they were
supposed to be doing as a leader. And so it's a you might think that this is the impression you're giving your boss, is that, oh, you want to be seen as like, oh, I'm a go get or
I can just jump in and get the work done. But in actuality, if you do it in the wrong times or too often, you will you won't be seen as you know that, oh you're the one that wants to jump in and get everything done with your team, You'll be seen as the one who doesn't know how to delegate to your team or hold them accountable to getting their work done. So again, it's a case by case basis,
and it's easy to Monday morning quarterback it right. It's easy for a person to come in and say, oh, you should have delegated when you didn't, or you shouldn't have delegated, you should have jumped in and they struggled for a while when you could have gone in and done the work with them. But but it's not about any individual instance of this happening. It's about the collective instances because there's no way to get it right every single time.
Especially when you're learning, and how your team feels about you is largely less about whether or not you jumped in and more about whether or not you help them solve the problem. And solving that problem might be doing it for them in certain circumstances, or it might be giving them a tool they might need. It might be taking something off their plate so they can focus more heavily
on the thing that they need to get done. As a learning experience, it can run the gamut of what your role as a leader is in that moment. But again, just because you aren't standing shoulder to shoulder with the team doing the exact work that they're doing, it doesn't mean that you're going to be viewed as as a leader as not effective as a leader. In fact, that oftentimes the most effective leadership you can do is when you decide, you know what, I'm not going to put this fire out with them.
I'm going to make sure that that the roads are clear so the fire trucks can get in so they can put the fire out. That's where I'm That's where I'm best served as a leader as opposed to just jumping in doing it. Yeah, like I said, it's I think when we have a conversation like this, we all immediately jump to very specific examples, right,
and again, sometimes it's like self soothing. Sometimes it's like no, no, no, no, no, I get it understanding, Like that one time that I jumped in like they needed me, Chris, like they like there was there was no other option there. I had to jump in there. And you might be right, you might absolutely be right, like that
might have been the right thing to do. I can tell you over time, right, if that's the way in which you have to react, or if that's the way in which you have to operate as a leader of people or as a leader of leaders, what you're going to find out over time is that that that that kind of exception of having to jump in and save it now starts to become a little bit of the expectation yep. Now starts
to be a part of what you're supposed to do. And then as you attempt to maybe grow and be able to get better at leading through people or leading through leaders, and you start to do less of that, that also becomes extremely noticeable yep. And then people are feeling like, oh, Chris over here, man, he used to come out in the registers and help us out. Chris, you just come out here and clean the floors, Chris to the customers. Now, Chris is too busy. That's what ends
up happening. And so I think that, you know, you've got to be conscious of that. And if you're in that space where you're you're struggling maybe in either figuring out when and how or you're just struggling internally around like how are they feeling about me? Am I doing the right thing? Is this come across from right? Like the best way to work through that is
actually talk that through with your team. Oh, tell people, communicate it out there, say hey, you know earlier today, yesterday, last week, you know, I saw that this is what happened. I had to jump in and get in there, and like, let me tell you all first and foremost, like I want you to know if it's absolute desperation and you need me, like I'm willing to go do that work. I will jump in, I will help out. I enjoy it. I don't mind it at all. But also like when I'm doing that, that's taking away
from me doing this. And like I liked your analogy about like if I'm in here fighting the fires with you when I'm supposed to be in charge of clearing the way for the fire truck. It feels good in the moment, it feels like I'm right there, but like the actual action that I should be taking is not being done and it's going to cause this to be in either a larger issue potentially because we can't get the resources that we need as
quick as we can. It's kind of like if you've ever been into a grocery store or a retailer and you get in that line and you're just like, how come there's one person at this register right There's nine registers and there's one person at a register right now? Like where is everybody else? And if that leader think about this, if that manager says, I'm going to hop on register too and say I can help who's next, but you don't
know that there's four people in the back that are working on something. And because that leader didn't make a call back there, that leader just jumped in and started to take the next customer instead of saying, hold on, I'll be ready with you. Hey, everyone, I see the line, I've got some resources in the back. I'm the manager here, and then we go get some more people will get you out here quick as possible. How you go back and you get them, and now you've got three or four
people at a register. As a customer waiting in line, I like that. That feels good. I'm in line, which means I'm willing to wait. I don't understand why there's just one. But now you've communicated with me, You've done the work, You've done it that way. Like that's what I mean by it's kind of like you have to be conscious of the role in which you play, the responsibilities that you have, and you've got to
be able to make those calls. But I would tell you, tell the team, Tell the team as you're learning, tell the team as these things happening. Make sure you define what your role is, give the examples, but let them know that like you will do it. If it was only two people working that day, then there is no other option. Right then
you have to get on the register and do the thing. But like communicate that with your team so that they could also learn over time on like when do they have to hit the emergency switch, When do they need you to come out and actually be side by side. They can start to understand those things, and it takes away some of that internal maybe debate or dialogue that
you're having around making the right call. Yeah, I think where this can happen often, especially in retail, but in a lot of areas too, is whether or not the thing that has to be done is finite, is in a moment in time or is this just how life is? So to give an example, when I've struggled with this in the past in terms of communicating to my team what was going on, it's when I know that there's a line of customers or clients that has to get processed or talk to,
and that line is never ending. It's never gonna end. It's always going to be there because the nature of the business. And if a person is being taught how to process this and I'm standing shoulder to shoulder with them and I'm not processing it with them. I'm just teaching them how to do it, and I'm giving them pointers and tips and showing them how to do it, the frustration from them could be Chris, why aren't you just doing this
with me? Like what? Like, just we can get done twice as many people if you're doing it and I'm doing it, And in my mind, I'm thinking, well, we can't get them twice as many people if we're both doing it because you don't know how to do it yet. You need to learn how to do this, and once you are able to do it correctly and efficiently, you'll be far better at it than you are right now because you're brand new at it. Might feel like in the moment that
you want me to jump in and start doing it right alongside you. But and if this line of customers that we're processing has an end to it, maybe that's the right thing to do, and then we get through it, and then we start teaching and doing things at another time. But this line's never going to go away. It's always going to be there because as people move through, more people come in, it's always going to be there.
And so in circumstances like that, you have to kind of take a deep breath and say, you know what, trust that this is the process. That it might take longer to get through this right now, but I'm arming you with the tools that you need to be able to do this on your own to where you don't need somebody side by side with you going forward. And in times when I struggle with this it's been in the lack of communication that that's what's going on, and that can lead to that other person feeling
like I'm not seeing the bigger picture here. It's like they think of it like why why is Chris teaching me how to do this right now when he should be just doing it himself. And it's like, no, no, no, this is intentional. I'm intentionally teaching how to do this because I want you to be armed with these tools as opposed to just always needing someone to come in and bail you out whenever it gets busy. And again,
communication is key. Without that communication, they don't think there's a strategy to it. They think it's like maybe I don't want to jump in. I don't want to go in and do this work myself. I'd rather sit here and teach you as a leader. And it works the opposite way too. If I'm jumping in and getting it done all my own, I could have an employee who thinks, well, why is Chris always doing this for me? I'm never going to learn how to do this if Chris is always jumping
in doing it for me. Again, people will tell their own story. In the lack of communication. If you have a person who wants to jump in and do things on their own and you're doing it for them, they'll look at that as a negative. If you have a person who wants the support and the help and for you jumping in and you're using it as a
teachable moment, they'll look at that as a negative. So it's the personality of the person you're working with, combined with what their level of expertise or comfort with the situation is all that goes into play, and the old only way to clear the air and make sure they know that this isn't just kind of happenstance, or this isn't like me trying to avoid something or do something I want to do. There's a strategy to this and we're gonna get through
this together. That's the only way to make them understand that, Okay, you know, let's let's work through this together, and then you know it'll be the next time will be easier and easier after that. Absolutely, And
with that it brings us to this episode's one minute hack. But first, if you work from our sponsors, all right, this episode, woman Hack is all about communication before, during, and after any interaction where you might be doing the work of the people who are supposed to be doing that work, So you've to you have to jump in as a leader to help get
something done, or choose not to. Communicating with your people in advance of the situation so they know what's about to happen here, that there's a strategy to it, and then during it kind of touching base and making sure that they're okay with how things are going. And then afterwards one a debrief. So when when all is said and done, Hey, how did that go? Do you feel like you learn something here? Could I've done something differently?
Did you need more support or less support? Did I do too much for you or not enough for you? All of these things when it comes to communication, are really important because each of your people want something different from you as a leader, and if you do the same thing for all of them, it's going to work really well for some of them and not well
for others. So find out what the gauge of the temperature of the room is as well as what their bandwidth is to get done this task or this project, and layer yourself in as needed, a little bit at a time, with as little as possible, so that you are focusing more on leading as much as possible, and then if you have to get in and do some of the dirty work with them, then you can, but it has to be something that's done strategically and with their permission. Slash communication, not
just because you decide you want to. Yeah, I like this one minute hack and you know communication, communication, communication, Like the ability in these spaces whereas a leader, you're internally assessing your decisions, but also like you're looking to be in a place where your team believes in your decision making quality. They understand what you're doing and why you're doing it. They can appreciate and respect, you know, the way in which you support them, but
also challenge them and teach them and motivate them. Like in these types of spaces, your ability to effectively communicate what's going on, how you're feeling, how they're feeling, what you want to do, what the expectations are, how you work together to make sure that everybody is getting the best out of it as possible, I think is absolutely critical. I remember days where you knows, as an assistant manager in a big box retail store where we were
just running slim people had vacations. Leaders got out sick. There were meetings that were happening, and you found yourself typically where you may have two or three peers with you during the whole afternoon and night time to run a really big, fifty sixty thousand square foot store where you were the only one there. And I actually enjoyed those moments a lot because I had to really intentionally get around and talk to everybody in the building and every leader and say,
hey, I need your help and support here. Right, it's just me. You know that, I know that I needed to make the calls. I needed it to solve for the things that are going on. When you need me or when you ask for me, you need to be really specific on what you need so that I can address it as quickly as possible and then me available for everyone else because it's just me, right, So like like we need to run tight, we need to run clear, but I
trust you you got this. Let's go make it happen, and let's just have a good time while we do it. But like that amount of communication and then afterward as you go right and have communicating throughout the day in the night time and then having a recap at the end of the day, like, these are all things that I think in my career that I learned, but I enjoyed and it really allowed it allowed me to create spaces where I could kind of I had to trust and delegate, but also was able to
really better assess and support leaders who were capable of more, and these kind of providing the opportunities to give them that opportunity to do more. Right. I think that's that's so well stated. I also think that there will always be this kind of need to quantify your value add no matter who you are, no matter what your role is, And as you move up in an organization or move through your career, chances are as you take on more responsibility
as a leader, you will be doing less tactical work. You know, when you start out as a line level employee, all of your work is tactical, you know, And then you get promoted, you start leading a team of people, and maybe maybe it's you know, seventy five or sixty five percent of your work is strategic and around leadership, and there's still some tactical work that has to be done too, because that's just the way life works. As you move up further and further, it's less and less tactical
and more and more strategic. And there's a reason why it's not all at once, and that's because it's really difficult for a person to go from being able to quantify everything they do on paper to being able to say, you know what, I can't quantify it, but here's what I did. I spoke to this many people today. You know, I had a conversation with these people that, well, what would it do. I don't know. It's yet to be seen, but we'll see how their performance is over time.
You can only quantify your value add as a leader, oftentimes looking backward and looking at the performance of your team overall and how that has grown. You need to be okay with that. If you are taking on the job of a leader, you need to be okay with letting go of this idea that you can you can show somebody on an Excel spreadsheet what you did for the day, or you know how many widgets you made or products you sold
or things you moved. That that goes away when you take on the responsibility of being a leader and instead you're talking about growing your team and helping them accomplish their goals. If you are working for an organization that values leadership, that is expected, and you need to be able to put on that bag of bricks and say, you know what, I'm okay with this. I need to focus on my people and know that it will work out. Know that you don't necessarily have to do as much. Now, no matter what
level you're at, there will always be some tactical work. It might only be one percent, but every once in a while it does have to happen, and I can't be beneath you. But again, the default needs to be why was I hired to do this job? And if that role has the word leader in the title, you know, if you are a leader of people, the default needs to be what can I do in spirit of that role as a leader, and not in spirit of like an individual contributor
or the person who's doing the job itself. Start from that standpoint and kind of layered in as you can, as opposed to just thinking that the default needs to be, oh my gosh, I haven't sold anything yet today. Well yeah, you're not supposed to write so, but again, communicate with your team, make sure they know why you're doing what you're doing. And I don't think you can go wrong with that. I think you'll get a lot of grace from your team even if you make the wrong decision sometimes absolutely
And with that it brings us to the end of this episode. This is hacking your leadership. I'm Lorenzo and I'm Chris, and we'll talk to you all next time.