Welcome to Hacking Your Leadership. I'm Chris and I'm Lorenzo. And Lorenzo on this episode, I want to talk about a listener question that I got on LinkedIn. This is from a person who they asked to be you know,
to remain anonymous, so we'll respect their their anonymity here. But the question was around feedback that they had received that they weren't perceived as being very authentic when it came to leading, and that was a kind of a semi surprise to them because they they had had gotten the feedback in the past, but they believed they had done, you know, taking steps to kind of make
it better over the years, and we're still getting the same feedback. And the question was around how how were they able to be perceived as more authentic on the team. And and I like this question because my first answer is, well, do you do you want to be perceived as being authentic or do you want to be authentic? Right? So, and I I will assume positive intent and assume they actually want to be authentic, not just perceived
as authentic. But they go hand in hand there, And it got me thinking about the you know, like what if I think about leaders in my life who are authentic, like I, I perceive them as being authentic and I believe they are authentic, versus leaders who I don't believe are authentic. I try to look for, like, you know, kind of traits that that run the gamut across the board from from all of them, you know,
commonalities, and I keep coming back to this element of vulnerability. But then, but then I I know leaders who are authentic who they aren't. They don't have a lot of examples of being where I perceive them as being vulnerable, but I still think they're really authentic. And then there are leaders who I've perceived as being authentic and they're just they're just not good people. They just they just don't it Like I'm these are the ABC's and me kind
of thing, you know. But uh, but yeah, I'm wondering what your thoughts about this are, because I think it's a there's a lot to hacker. There's this idea of being actually authentic and what that means too. If you are a leader of leaders or leader of people, and you and you want to make sure if you know that being authentic is a large part of your ability to lead a team, that your people have to believe that you are authentic? How do you do that or what does one do to
how do you quantify that in actual actions? Authenticity is something that I think, over time and interactions allows people to understand who you really are. Again, this is just kind of my initial thoughts and definition of what that would be to me is like, are you you know, is Chris showing up as this same Chris over and over and over again? And are his are
his perspectives? Are his thoughts on things that we're talking about? Are as the way that he speaks to me provides me with direction, feedback, coaching, inspiration, whatever those things are? Like, is there's this element of consistency here that I feel is is you know who he is? And also am I learning about him personally to a degree in a way that helps me to understand where he comes from and maybe even why he sees these things these
ways? So when I think about authenticity, that's the first thing that I think about, is like just this idea of you know, do I think so it's more of the perception of authenticity. Do I think that Chris is being true to who he presents himself to be? The actual thing about authenticity is that you can say I'm being authentic, this is who I am, this is like you can like it, you cannot like it. You can
appreciate it, you can not appreciate it. But like, I feel strongly that I'm showing up as who I am, and then it becomes frustrating when you're kind of getting that feedback of people saying maybe they don't perceive you as
authentic. I think a big factor in that is the comparison elements, especially when you have either have multiple leaders on a team where people can kind of compare and contrast, or experiences with other leaders where I'm like, man, my last leader would talk about like their children and their hobbies and they would share this, and they would share that, and then my new leader is
really just all about like work and what we have to accomplish. He's nice and he talks to me and he's not mean to me, but like, I don't really know who he is, and then therefore I don't know that he's being authentic, like I think because he's not talking about the numbers when he's at home, right exactly, No, No, And then I think another part of that too in leadership specifically where somebody can be truly like I
think, being authentic, but then people can perceive them as not. It's kind of when you get sometimes those like corporty kind of robots that maybe are just repetitive of like they only say like the hot taglines of a company. They're very robotic when it comes to like conversations around certain things, like I think of like the development conversation sations that I've seen sometimes in new leaders where it's like, I'm just going to like, so, Chris, you know,
tell me about how you feel your work is going. You have an answer, Thank you for sharing that. I appreciate your insights. Right, Where are things that you feel that you're proud about? Like, And it's the same script for every persons from the real you exactly. Even if it's like you do care, you are interested, but you feel that you have
to follow this from a consistency standpoint or whatever. People can say that doesn't feel authentic, like it feels like it feels like they're just doing this because they have to, not because they really want to, even if you really want to. Yeah, I like that I heard the first thing you said. I heard I heard almost predictability. You said consistency, But when I hear consistency, it's like, can I if I go into an interaction, I think this person is going to do this? Okay, now did they
do that? And consistency is predictability, right, But but if a person is predictably that's that example you gave. They the company speak, that's what they say. There's that wall up. It doesn't necessarily mean that they're inauthentic. I think it's hard for people to believe that a person is that shallow and only shallow, like like how we talk about how a person doesn't care about, you know, deeper things. They just look somebody's looks or somebody's
wealth or whatever. I don't mean that shallow. I mean truly just that there that they are a person who doesn't have the many facets of a personality, and a person that they know that literally everybody has. Everybody has multiple facets. So if you're only seeing this one element, it's impossible for most people to believe that that is how deep a person goes. And so when that's all you're seeing, the general inclinations think, well, they're clearly not
being authentic. On the flip side. I know leaders who they get so much out of whatever that work is that that's they believe they are being authentic. That's what they want to talk about. And if you were to talk about that same stuff with them right back, they would have an amazing conversation with you. They would love talking about it. They got a lot of passion from that. So I guess what I'm saying is that there's an element
of perception here that goes a lot deeper than just what you know. It's almost like you can't label yourself as authentic. People have to label you authentic, right, you know, And that's a that's an interesting one. I want to talk about a little bit when it comes to vulnerability because I've often heard those two things tied together with this. So I know leaders who have been vulnerable, and that leads you to believe they're being authentic. Because everybody
knows that nobody's perfect. Everybody knows that everybody has made mistakes, and so if a person is never talking about their mistakes or their failures, then that can come off as a lack of authenticity because the entirety of a person includes those mistakes. It has to, So why aren't you talking about it. Is it because you don't actually believe you've made them, you know, or is it because you just don't want to talk about them. Either way,
that's that's a lack of authenticity. But I look at people like, you know, when you see like a politician or somebody on TV and they're apologizing for whatever it was that they did, And the first thing I think is, that's not real. They just got caught, right, That's what I think. So that's that's not a real that's that's admitting a failure. That's admitting a mistake. But it's not authenticity either. So vulnerability doesn't necessarily mean
authenticity, but it could. And what do you think about that? Yeah, I think vulnerability is one of those things that in the right amount, in the right way, really becomes a big part of people feeling like a
leaders authentic in the context of leadership. Like and again it's it's it's really interesting because again it's you can not have any and then that makes it difficult for people to feel that you're being authentic if you never admit mistakes, if you never share things about yourself, if you never talk about the failures or
anything whatsoever. You're never willing to admit to something that's gone wrong. You pretend like everything is good, Like you can feel like they're being an authentic but then if you have too much vulnerability and you're you're always like it's like, you know, just just over the top with uh how you like said, like where everything is never nothing will ever work, or I don't know how we'll ever get this done, or like you know, I've made so
many mistakes before. Now you're like, I'm starting to lose confidence now, Like like it's like, you know, it may make you more authentic, like that may be more of a reflection of who you are, but as a leader, I'm like I need an era of confidence. I need somebody's gonna tell me, like we're gonna figure this out and we're gonna go We're
gonna make this work. And it might be difficult, it might be hard, we might fall in our face a few times, but we are going to make this happen, and we're gonna take this collective you know, energy and what we've all learned in the past to kind of apply to this, to this, to the situation. But I think that the vulnerability is one of those things that time, place, and amounts. I think it really
really matters. It's kind of like it's just as the recipe has to have the right measurements, but I also know that those measurements differ from team to team, in situation to situation, so it's really difficult to pin down exactly. Like if you say, every week, admit two mistakes and then share one story where you screw something like, that's the definition of right right, It's it's kind of like, so it's a it's a really hard one to
capture, but I believe it's absolutely necessary. Yeah, there's this. It's almost like like being vulnerable is a you're you're giving somebody the tools with which to judge your authenticity and and the right level of vulnerability is needed in that moment. And sometimes it's not very much vulnerability that is needed in order to make people understand that you're being authentic. Sometimes a lot of vulnerability is needed
to make people feel like you're being authentic. And you know, so, I mean it can it can come to like, wait, are you are you admitting this mistake because you got caught and you never would have said anything if you hadn't gotten caught. Are you are you are you bringing up this failure or this mistake and the context of you see me struggling with something right now and you want to bring up how you went through the exact same thing. Well, if that's the case, then it needs to be very specific
with examples. Otherwise I feel like you're just saying that you went through this too because you're trying to You're trying to be vulnerable when when there's not when it's not real, you're making it up. And so yeah, it's it's the right level of vulnerability is needed. But but every situation is different in terms of the amount that is required. So there's no way, there's no way to predict it. You just have to kind of know in the moment
what you have to do. This is this is hard to practice if you're not good at it, but it's not impossible. You can do this if you're If you're not good at this, you can get better. I think I think it takes into a context like understanding if you're if you're looking to to develop people, help them work them down the path around like personal learning
and growth and everything. Like I immediately think of the examples when somebody says to me like hey, you know, here's what we're up against, or here's here's a you know, here's what we've been doing and we don't know if we're doing this the right way, or like here's you know, here's kind of how here's our approach to this, and it sounds like maybe we're not doing this correctly. And I think in those moments, one of the things that I'm conscious of is saying like, hey, well, like I,
first of all, let me tell you something. You're not the first one to experience this, Like, uh, my, myself, my team, I've also experienced this exact same situation, like like we we you know, I've had teams where we've been caught kind of the same way by making this mistake or by not knowing the information correctly, or by you know, implementing a strategy that we thought was this way and it should have been that
way. But like starting with like saying hey, like so first and foremost, let me let me remove that feeling of like this is just about you, and then this is something that you're working through. So like, let me tell you the mistake that we made and how we work through it. Now, let's take a look at what you're working through and let's figure this
out together. And so like, those moments, I think, especially when you're leading leaders, are really important for if you're if you're looking to build kind of the trust. And again I'm not even necessarily talking about like being authentic, but more about the vulnerability piece, Like, those are the moments that matter the most when you have a leader or somebody who has made a mistake or is currently making a mistake, or they're trying to figure something out
and they're looking for guidance or they're looking for clarity on it. Those moments of sharing with them that we've done it, that I've done it, that you've like like these moments right now, these matter a lot to say it's going to be all rights, right, because if I was able to make the mistake and figure it out and survive it and be at this point, we're going to work through this too. So for me, those moments of vulnerability are I think the most important. And then right next to that are
the admitted to mistakes. Yeah, you have to own a mistake that you make as a leader, and you have to do it publicly, and like if it's with a team of people, if it's if it's a person privately obviously, but like you have to own those and own it as you should and apologize if necessary, and then be really conscious to not make the same mistake again. Yeah, I agree with that. I think there's also an element of asking for help as opposed to working through something on your own.
There's something about this collaborative effort that strengthens a relationship with somebody that can't be achieved working through something on your own. I don't mean a problem that you should be able to get through on your own, and you look weird bringing it up. But I know people and I've done this myself, where where there's a problem I'm trying to work through and instead of reaching out or asking for help, I'll work through it on my own and I'll get through it.
I'll figure it out and I'll get through it and it's fine. But it misses the potential of their being a moment where you can strengthen a relationship with somebody because of that vulnerability of going to somebody and saying I'm struggling with this and it can't be once you've figured it out, it can't be. I'm going to figure this out on my own and then go, wait a
minute, I missed an opportunity there. Let me go to somebody and say that I'm still further back in this process and ask for their help, because that will not get that will come off as incredibly inauthentic. I mean recognizing when you're having an issue with something at the beginning and taking a partner in a peer or or a boss or somebody or even someone who reports to you directly and saying, hey, I think I remember you going through something like
this recently or in the past. Can we talk about what you did. I think I'm going through this kind of same thing right now that I think can go a long way to doing that. But you, again, you have to recognize it in the moment that it's happening, and then reach out for that assistance when when you truly need it, or when you when it can when it can truly benefit you, not after you've after you figured it out absolutely. And with that it brings us this episode's one minute hack.
But face a few words from our sponsors. All Right, for this episode's one minute hack, we're gonna try to answer the question from our listener who reached out to me on LinkedIn. If I was trying to increase the perception of authenticity from people on my team, the very first thing that I would do is admit to myself that this is about perception. No matter how authentic I believe I'm being, what they perceive of me matters here because they're the
ones giving the feedback. So the first thing that I would do if I were you is I would pick two or three people who you trust you, who you think will be honest with you and have no problem giving feedback even if it is hard to hear sometimes or even if they don't sugar code it. Pick two or three people, set them down individually, and tell them, hey, I am working on this. This is something that I want
to change the perception of because I want to be authentic. I try to be authentic, and I'm getting feedback that some people don't perceive me as being authentic. I want to change that perception. I would love to know if you've ever felt that, and what the interaction was that led you to believe
that. I don't want to put you on the spot, but if you so, if you want to come back to me later and tell me this, you know, think about it, but I want to know, and I want to I would love to enlist your help and helping me work on
this with me. So if you if you see interactions either between you and I or between me and somebody else, and you think that's not authentic or that's you know, this person is not being the real them, I would love for you to pull me aside and tell me in the moment when it has happened, so I can, you know, think back to what my interaction was and what I said and what I did to try to take steps to make this better. This is something I'm working on. Now. You
have to make it. You have to be real about this, and you have to actually want to change the perception. If you're going to get very defensive when people give you this feedback, you're not ready to do this yet. But if you genuinely want to change that perception, that there's no better way than taking partners and people you trust right from the beginning and saying this
is something i'm working on, please help me. Yeah, it's a I'm a big fan of thinking about the reality that we have to deal with the perception all the time, whether it's an authenticity or vulnerability or approachability or whatever it might be. And I think that you know what you shared is one of the best ways to do that, which is be upfront about it. Let people know, Hey, I'm working on this. This is something that
I'm working on. I need your help. Right I'm hearing and understanding that people may not be perceiving me as authentic and I feel that I'm showing up authentic, but I need help in understanding that perception, So like, can you help me with this or what are your thoughts or are things that I could do differently, because again, the thing about perception is that it can be a rest many times it kind of has to be addressed like one by one, and as you start to show up to be more authentic, or
people can say like, hey, well, when you do it this way, or when you get into these meetings and when you act like, you know, we set a goal and that goal is so wildly higher than anything we've ever achieved, and then you act like, no, this is easy, we can do this, like we you know, like that feels like you're being in authentic. It feels like you're not dialed into reality, and
there may either be more explanation needed or milestones to get there. But like those types of things, like you'll get that information if you go out and practice and ask those questions and find out what people are thinking or find out the moments where people feel like, well, that's not really being authentic like that, that is the best way to go about addressing something like this.
Sure, sure, in your specific example, I've been in rooms of leaders who have done that, and I can tell, just because of the relationship I have with them and what I know about them, that what they're doing is that they don't actually believe that it's as easy as they're saying it's going to be. They're working through it in their own head and it's the kind of thing where they're there they think to themselves, well, if if I go into this thinking I can't do it, then I can't do it.
I need to go into this thinking I can do it and kind of put that out there and in order to make that happen for myself. Now, if you have to do that for yourself to make it happen, do that. That's an internal dialogue that you have with yourself. If you say it
outward to the team, the team doesn't know your internal dialogue. They just know what you're saying, and they're going to take what you're saying verbatim because that's what that's the only thing they have to go off of, and then that's when you come off as an authentic So yeah, there are things that that you will work through in your own head, and there are things that you say to the team. Know that they will take what you say and
run with it. Like whatever you say, they'll they'll take it to mean that that's what you actually mean. So so yeah, I work through those things privately and be able to say to your teams, this isn't going to be easy, Like I think we can do it. I don't know we can do it. I think we can do it, but it's not going to be easy, and I need help to do this. Let's do it.
Let's do it together. There's nothing better than than asking for that assistance, that help, as opposed to like thinking that you can go this alone. You can do this alone. That's that's the kind of the epitome of authenticities, needing other people absolutely, and with that it brings us the end of this episode. This is hacking your leadership I'm Lorenzo and I'm Chris It. We'll talk to you all next time.