Welcome to Hacking Your ADHD. I'm your host, William Kerb, and I have ADHD. On this podcast, I dig into the tools, tactics, and best practices to help you work with your ADHD brain. Hey team! This week I'm talking with Dr. Ari Tuckman, a psychologist, certified sex therapist, and one of the most well-known voices in adult ADHD. Ari brings over 25 years of clinical experience to the table along with his new book, The ADHD Productivity Manual, which takes an honest look at the tools we use and my son-tums they don't work out quite the way we want them to. It was also actually kind of funny before we started recording we were talking about how it's amazing that our orbits have never actually crossed before.
Well in the episode I do get into an anecdote about how I did attend one of his talks he gave in 2019 and some synonyms but that's basically as close as we'd interacted before this. In our conversation today we unpack how shame and compassion can hijack our energy, how to set reminders that actually help instead of hinder, and why simple doesn't always mean easy. We also touch on what it means to communicate our needs assertively without over apologizing, and why trying to do everything perfectly is the fastest route to doing nothing at all. There's a ton of easy access actionable advice in this episode. I had a ton of fun with it and I think you'll love it too.
If you'd like to follow along on the show notes page you can find that at hackingyouradhd.com/228. All right keep on listening to find out what it takes to be productive with ADHD. All right so I'm thrilled to have you here talking about your new book The ADHD Productivity Manual and I think a great place for us to start here is this idea of why does ADHD make productivity harder because sometimes it's like oh this is a very obvious thing but when I'm trying to work for a problem if I go oh well why is this then that makes solutions so much easier to find.
Oh it definitely does. This is somebody else's saying but a problem well defined is a problem half solved right and that it's such an awesome saying you know because it really does capture it for not just productivity and not just ADHD but also why is my computer doing this weird thing or you know why does my knee hurt when I walk upstairs or whatever right. So like if you can be more specific about identifying the problem then you know like you shorten the list of possible options and this is why a diagnosis like ADHD or whatever is so important right because it narrows you down right.
We know what works for ADHD we know what doesn't work for ADHD you've probably figured a lot of that out yourself before you got diagnosed but you know like a diagnosis helps you shorten the work a bit hopefully and I mean the thing about it is first of all just being human and imperfect already is going to make it sometimes harder to get certain things done right so that's hardly a unique ADHD thing it's not like everyone else is just cranking stuff out all the time except for ADHD folks. But, finally coming around to the question that was asked. It's all that sort of distractibility the forgetfulness the not feeling the pressure of the deadline until it's a whole lot closer you know to the current moment you know that stuff where it's like ah crap it really would have been good to have worked on this three days ago.
But here I am the night before you know just not feeling that like fire in the belly kind of motivation early enough to be able to you know do what you need to do but also like forgetting the details like wait a second did I get an email about this now let me scroll through my you know email and try different search terms right so like wasting time on that we're getting off on a tangent of dealing with something else. There's all the psychology of it of like worrying even if you're like I'm pretty sure this is what it is like here's what I need to do but there's the worry of like what if it isn't what do I not even know I don't know right so that can also make it harder you know or people pleasing or so yeah turns out there's a lot that goes into productivity.
I'm feeling the thoughts about missing the small details because this past week I my kids were in spring break and so things were up in the air a little bit but I had a few things I needed to do like appointment wise I got to all of them but it was by luck not by
Not by design. Yeah.
Yeah I was just like I'd like look have like something pop up on my phone like oh I need to I have a this appointment in 30 minutes and I have a 30 minute drive to get there why why would I put that reminder in my calendar 30 minutes ahead of time when I know it's a 30 minute drive.
Yeah but this is an awesome example right because you know like the obvious frankly kind of insulting advice is oh set a reminder you know okay sure but there is something of an art to when the reminder gets set right and this is a perfect example because the alarm for you should now stand up and walk out the door is fine but that may not be awesome as your first alarm right that might be an awesome second alarm or third but not first you know.
Yeah it's certainly one of those things where yeah when you get the reminder is so important especially like you know if I have like a reminder to take my trash out if I'm getting that when I'm not at home that's yes like what am I doing.
Not helpful yeah exactly I mean that is definitely a part of it about thinking about what's going on where am I going to be when is the right time to set the reminder but even even just more basic things of like I've got appointment at three I got to leave at 2:30 but what's happening at two right am I going to notice the alarm am I going to be finished with what I need to so I can't just stand up at 2:30 so there's that part of things as well. Which means when you set the appointment for three you first of all knew what it is that you needed to do right and that you by the way had it in your calendar and you could look at your calendar and say uh yes three is a good time let's do that or like ooh wait a second you know I got this thing probably three is not going to work out let's not do that.
And it's then also remembering that there's a bunch of other things built around that task too like so appointment at three if I have that 30 minutes of drip but I still have to get ready to leave I still have to park and walk into the building check in with receptionist and like all these little pieces that take time it's easy to forget that they exist.
Yeah and that's a good point too because like three o'clock doesn't mean your car is within a hundred feet of it at three o'clock it means you know you found a place to park and you've you know walked in and you found the right door and you know so there's definitely there's that part of it. But there's also the kind of other thing I've got this I kind of sometimes sell this story about a client who you know set an alarm for his doctor's appointment and whatever and he got there on time and he was awesome except he didn't note down which office it was who is at the wrong office at the right time.
Which it turns out isn't actually that helpful for getting your meds refilled low and behold you know so like that would have been something to include as well probably in all caps you know doc Exton office or Westchester office or whatever right especially if it's not the usual one. So this is if it feels hard sometimes to be productive to get all the details right this is why because there's actually a lot to it it's not that you're stupid it's that this stuff is actually pretty complicated in that a lot of things need to happen the right way for things to work out well in the end but it only takes one thing to not work out for things to not work out well in the end.
And I think it's really important for us to remember because there's so much shame that comes with ADHD and when we make this is easy stuff that I can't do that's not really helpful and it might just be the example I often go with is you know try to be like simple and easy aren't the same thing so being like it's simple to do the dishes but it's not always easy to do the dishes.
I love that line that's so great yeah here I'm going to give you a giant stack of papers to file. Knowing the alphabet is simple right like if you know b comes after a you've got it but like it's not easy right anyone's going to struggle to force themselves through a big tall stack of papers right so yes exactly simple and easy or not the same thing.
And yeah and then we when we conflate the two we often have this shame about well why can't I do this and should be able to do this and then also like when we're you're mentioning like you know we have this like sense of like oh I could have done this three days ago why didn't I do it then and I find that dealing with the shame is often one of those things that's like does not feel like it's on the productivity radar but it's definitely something that hits hard and makes it even harder.
And it absolutely does right because there's that just the basic sort of cognitive part of ADHD of remembering to do it in the first place and sustaining attention and resisting distractions and you know generating motivation and whatever but there's absolutely that more emotional piece like you just discussed right and it's not just what are the emotions evoked by this one specific situation probably not that big a deal but what are all the other emotions that come from other somewhat similar situations that get poured into this moment like that's that's the flood that washes you away.
Okay how are we building a better foundation to work from here and so I assume that's something that is kind of what the focus of your book is like building these skills up.
It is it is. I mean it's sort of this is one of those things as always I'm like oh this book isn't going to be that long and then I keep having one like oh here's an idea and here's an idea and I totally have to talk about this right that like so there's like 36 short chapters but I talk about like 36 different areas that are involved or 36 different ways that we sort of get tangled up. And you know some of it is the obvious stuff hopefully stated in a more helpful way but things like get enough sleep and you know exercise and take your medication and here's how to use a to-do list without hating it and here's how to use your calendar and set alarms.
Like we discussed you know setting up a good work environment in some various different ways. But also getting into this psychology stuff of like feeling overwhelmed or feeling like you have too many ideas or the ways that we talk ourselves away from doing the things that we should do and then also kind of the social piece right because probably what you're doing or not doing is you know has some involvement with other people or at least they have some opinions about what you do or don't do so you know like there's that whole part of it as well of how do you not only figure out how to get stuff done but also how do you negotiate with other people about what you should get done or how or when.
I don't want to harp on it too much with the idea of simple and easy but that does feel like a lot of what is going on here is that we need to step back and kind of be a little less judgmental of our tools yeah
Yeah. I mean if the tool works well and it doesn't you know negatively impact other people then then do it now it it might be that you need to explain it to people right because they're gonna look at and say why I don't understand that you know I don't do that what are you doing there fine explain it to people help them understand why this is something that's helpful to you. Particularly if it's something that better enables you to do a thing that matters to them right so if you have some co-worker that you need to get something to or if it's your romantic partner or whatever right like they have some stake in this then helping them see if I do it this way you're more likely to get what you want.
Most people are going to be pretty happy to hear it. The trick of it though is to say it in a way that's kind of straightforward sort of assertive and also not too apologetic right don't come from a position of weakness or like basically like please give me permission to do this thing because you're not asking permission you're informing them. Because if you get too kind of psyched out and weird about it right if you get kind of like skittish about it then that's going to evoke something from the other person and it may not go the way you want it to go right so you're just kind of letting them know fyi here's the thing that I do and yeah I find it helpful so.
And especially those things that you know aren't going to be big effects on other people like during the conversation I have my like fidget I'm playing with like that is very easy to help me stay focused on the conversation and just do something with my that does not make any noise most of the time occasionally I will like be recording and drop it I'm just like shonk and I'm like oh thank god for editing.
Or also maybe we don't edit and who cares.
But then you do have the things that will like you know it's can be very difficult with managing other people's expectations sometimes when they're like no but you should just be able to do this.
Yeah you know look that whole debate about whether you should or shouldn't like whatever you know maybe you should maybe you should like but here we are you know like I'm telling you I know myself and this works much better. So now having said all this there's a difference between doing a thing that doesn't particularly impact someone else in any kind of real tangible way it's more like they don't like the idea of it right so if I was sort of rigid and was like why are you you know playing with that thing in your hand that looks disrespectful you shouldn't do that right but it's not like you're hitting me with it and it's not like you're clicking it so I can't hear so like I don't actually have a stake in this. That's my problem in that case you know now you might try to explain it to say like no.
Actually it helps me focus more not less so this is better for you if I do this right and maybe I can get in like okay cool all right or I don't really understand it but like find whatever. But if I continue to be offended by it that's kind of my problem at that point now that's kind of different if it's a thing where it's like honey I need to leave all of my stuff out because out of sight out of mind you know like maybe yes but also like you have a roommate that might be your spouse or kids or someone but like you have roommates so like you do need to figure out how to live with other people and what is that sort of balance that we can all sort of live with.
Yeah there's definitely the aspects with family people you live with and then work things are also can be very complicated because of power dynamics there you know like you know some of us are going to have a little bit more privilege in working with people that are going to be understanding and other people are going to be like yeah I don't even believe in ADHD so uh whatever you're saying doesn't fly and it's like I would love to be able to tell people hey just don't work there but I understand that's also not realistic.
Right, right. I mean having said that there are times when I think you do need to recognize this is not a sustainable situation. This is not a good fit I will not be happy here I can't convince this person whether it's a job or a friendship or a relationship or whatever right and like at those times it is not a small thing but it's better to leave on your timing the way that you want to than it is to you know wait for the axe to drop. So like that is sometimes the only good option but it's not an easy one but at other times where it's someone who doesn't have that extra power over you so there isn't like a boss employee or whatever right like that's different where it's like sorry man like I'm sorry this bothers you you can have every opinion you want but I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do here and you don't have the right to stop me. Again as long as it's kind of a reasonable thing like you can't be a jerk and say well I have ADHD so that's on you.
Yeah it's really going into the uh difference between excuse and explanation kind of thing too you know it's like oh yeah I'm late because of you know factors but it's I have to acknowledge my being late affects other people and I can't just be like well just my ADHD you gotta live with that.
No exactly exactly so it's kind of knowing the time and place you know for things or knowing what the situation is I sometimes say that other people shouldn't be working harder on your ADHD than you are. Right? So if it's more work for them to accommodate you being late and you're just kind of strolling in casually as if you didn't really put any effort into getting there on time that's a set up for resentment. Like they will absolutely resent you because the balance is wrong I'm working harder than you what's up with this on the other hand if you show up late but you somehow right you really convey like I am really sorry I am doing my best it's not great but trust me this is my best right 20 minutes late is as good as it gets I could be an hour and a half late so I'm not gonna say count yourself lucky but like I worked my ass off to only be 20 minutes late.
Yeah and I feel it's also that's something that we can consider giving our self-grace on too it's like the number of small errors I've made in you know like booking reservations or driving to the wrong airport and it'd be like yeah there are a lot of things that go wrong and I do have to give myself like hey I know I'm trying my best even if it self-talk sometimes condenses me otherwise.
Yeah and I mean that's exactly it right. And of course the thing of it is in that awful moment of realization where you realize you're at the wrong airport beating yourself up doesn't get you to the right airport you know so I mean this is very easy to say but it's sort of like okay well now what here we are now what is my best move what can I do to fix this perhaps how do I make amends if other people are involved trying not to get completely flooded in the emotions. And then either shutting down beating yourself up letting other people beat you up or getting defensive and blaming other people and just making it worse how do you sort of get your head back on and then figure out what your next move is.
Yeah and staying out of comparison because we always kind of be like oh yeah you know like I don't have my stuff together but everyone else does which is also so uh when you emailed me you had sent me something you like yeah we haven't really uh had uh our path crossed too much yet and it did make me think of the first ADHD conference I went to I went to a presentation you were doing. And there was a board that put questions up on the board like you just like would like text them in and they'd go up and I was like oh this is neat and I saw someone like had you know a censored swear word on that I was like oh that's really neat that they have something that automatically censors that.
I wonder how that works and so I just tested it right like off the bat I was just like and sent in this question does anyone have their shit together and it like popped up on the board I'm like oh it doesn't automatically censor it huh that is so awesome like you took the time to actually then answer this question of does everyone have their shit together and it is like yeah it's no not no one always has all their shit together all the time like there is this is a continuum of like yeah sometimes it's gonna be I'm gonna be getting it sometimes I'm not.
It turned out to like I'm like well impulse okay it worked out because it turned out to be something that a lot of people needed to hear too is because it does feel like everyone else has their shit together you know we're watching these people put on these presentations at the conference and they're like oh man they they know what they're doing and then I talked to those people and they're like man I finished I got my presentation in like five minutes before and then I got my actual edits for my slides done you know the hour before the presentation.
Sure. And that is definitely a real thing we actually had And a friend of mine, Kim Kensington, who's a psychologist in LA, who's done some presenting for us, although not recently, but she actually did her presentation on kind of that, on how she has struggled a lot with her ADHD and also continues to. Right? It was a more sort of honest, like, this is what it's really like as opposed to sometimes, you know, for presenters and certainly social media, right? There's so much of like, it used to be hard, but now I'm killing it, you know, which then just makes you feel like a total loser. It's like, great, you suck at life and also you suck at ADHD. Way to go!
Yeah. And it's, yeah, it really is that like, we need to understand that there are going to be exacerbating factors for ADHD sometimes. Right now I'm having a tell of allergy problems from the spring and I'm like, allergies are not a strictly ADHD thing, but they certainly exacerbate my symptoms because I'm not sleeping as well. I have something that's constantly a distraction where I'm like, oh, I'm having to take allergy meds all the time. And it's been like, okay, well, this is going to be time of year. I have to step back a little bit and do a little bit less because I am getting, I just can't be as productive as I think I should be able to.
Yeah. And that's 100% true, right? And again, not an ADHD thing. That's like a all people thing. And whether it's allergies or whatever else that's impacting your ability either to function well or to feel good, right? To sort of kind of acknowledge that, right? And maybe I need to change my expectations for myself a bit or maybe I just need to, I'm still going to do the stuff, but I'm going to change my expectation that it's going to go like it used to, right? This is going to be a more of a struggle. Fine. I'm just going to push through. I'm okay with it because of just whatever it is what it is, or I just need to do it or I'm just, I don't have that luxury to cut myself the slack, but I know it's going to be harder than it normally would be. And I'm going to kind of let that be what it is.
Yeah. I find often what I need to really focus on in these times is just like, how am I setting myself up for success? Like, what are the, am I setting up my environment? Well, what am I doing that's going to be good for me down the line? Like making sure I'm blocking my distractions on my screens and all of those things.
Yeah. Yeah. And it's sometimes, it's just one of those things where you need to then, I don't know, invest a bit more in some other places in order to maybe counterbalance a little bit. So like for myself, I don't always sleep great. That's sort of a struggle. Like I'm pretty good about my habits, but my brain doesn't always sleep well despite that. So like if I have a really bad night of sleep, you know, best thing I can do is like a really hard workout, you know, so I'll go down and sort of ride the bike in the basement and, you know, sweat it out and it just kind of clears that fog and the headache. And it's just like a less bad day, you know. So kind of things like that of just sort of recognizing here is a thing I need to do to at least rescue what I can.
Well, one of my other favorite ones is realizing I can like reset my day whenever I need to to like be like, you know, like, oh, if I have a like a morning routine that I didn't get through or you know, there's things I know I can do through my day to make me feel better, you know, like, okay, make sure I have a good breakfast. I'm like, if I need to do that at 2pm, I can do that like an hour before my kids get home and that's fine. At least I got that hour.
Yeah. And that's definitely a thing, right? Because of course, the temptation is to just grind through. Oh, I've got an hour. I got to just, I got to, you know, I don't have time to stop for, to get something to eat, right? And you just kind of slog through, but probably don't get as much done or at least the quality isn't what it could be, you know. So sometimes taking that time to just take a walk around or to grab a snack or to do whatever, right? Like that sort of sharpening the saw kind of a thing. It kind of that time gets returned, so to speak.
Yeah, definitely. Because I also find when the grinding through, that was the strategy in college I had. Because before I had my diagnosis and it made sense, it's like, oh yeah, you just got to do what you got to do. And sometimes that means sitting in the library for five hours and not getting anything done. That's just how you do it. But then that's like, oh yeah, but that also like stole from my future self. Like I was using to make that grind happen. I was just, the next week I'm also going to be useless.
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And I mean, the thing about it is, I can understand why that college student did that. Because it's sort of like, well, this is my best shot. This is my best of the available options. And it sort of worked. Like it did. I mean, it did manage to graduate, right? So I suppose it was effective, right? Now at what cost, of course, is the thing we're talking about here. But it's also a thing of like, maybe that is not how it had to be. Sometimes sort of knowing when to say when, go do something else and then come back. And in two hours, do the two hours worth of work or at least the hour and a half worth of work and get it done. But that assumes you have some faith that if you leave, you'll come back, which might have been the issue.
What I know now, I'm like building accountability and being able to go for a walk or something and being like, oh, this is going to actually set myself up to do what I need to do. Even if it doesn't, at least I got to go on a walk and that's somewhat productive anyway.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And by going for that walk, you're going to actually get more done total in that time than just bang your head against the wall.
Yeah, that's actually been killing me recently where I normally, that's my go to is to go for walks and I'm like, yeah, I can't go outside to allergy. Broken out my N95s a couple of times to walk around outside and being like, neighbors can judge how they want. But yeah.
Right, exactly. Exactly.
But yeah, and so yeah, I feel like doing those not pushing is one of those things that's been one of the hardest lessons for me to learn. Because yeah, sometimes I do need to, but not most of the time.
Yeah. And I mean, that's the thing, right? Like, because persistence is admirable. In general, that's an admirable trait, but there comes a point where persistence sort of bleeds into stubborn or rigid or stuck or something. And it's that thing of kind of knowing when to say when. But I don't know, I think that takes good self-awareness, particularly in the moment of like, am I really getting things to honor? Am I just spinning my wheels?
Yeah, it kind of makes me think of when I did more sports, playing to injuries. Like at the time, it felt like the right choice. I'm like, oh yeah, I can do this. And then I'm like, I'm just hurting myself. And this is, it got to the point where I'm like, okay, I got injured. That's it. I'm done. I don't have the mental faculty to make this decision.
Yeah. Yeah, it's like, this is kind of hurting. I could stop now and take three days off where I can keep going and take a month off.
Yeah. And I mean, it really relates to how people hit burnout now with, they're like, oh, I have this idea of how much I should be able to produce. I'm going to keep going until this gets done and doesn't need to be that way.
And it does kind of raise that bigger question, which I think, you know, everybody struggles with to some extend then. But I think especially if you have a history of kind of undiagnosed ADHD and really kind of struggling a lot more is kind of this question of like, how good is good enough? And who decides, you know, like, do I let other people define that?
Do I define that for myself? How do I handle other people's disappointment when they're like, hey, I need you to get this to me. And you're like, sorry, man, I can't do that. Or I choose not to even, not that I can't. It's that I could, but I don't want to. You know, usually we say I can't because as if like I'm being prevented by some external force that I can't control. But, you know, but how much other people get to vote on that, you know, what is the right amount for you? There's always more rewards that come from being more productive, but there's also always more costs, you know? So is it worth it?
Is it not worth it? You know, but to really, to like really actually think about it, right? To really sort of think about what do I want my life to look like now? What is worth it? What is less worth it? And to get even a little bit more kind of deep on this, you know, there's even this question of like, do you even deserve to ask the question of am I allowed to decide I don't want to do these things? Or is it a thing of like, no, but I just have to because, you know, other people want me to.
It is really humbling sometimes to like step back and be like, oh, if I didn't do this thing, there, it'd be fine. Like it feels really important, but I could also not do it. That's okay. I can, I can choose my priorities here and it's hard to do sometimes, but it is often worth it where I'm like, because often when I'm like in that state of like, I'm feeling burnt out, I feel like I'm like something's going to give. And then I'm like, oh, just do less. I can something that like, I'll be talking to my therapist and be like, so I'm doing that. And really, I should just be doing less. That's, that's what I should do. I should just do less.
Right. Yeah. And Chris, the thing about that is, you know, there's sometimes this thing of like, no, I have to do it all. Right. And then we just sort of plow ahead and then low and behold, it turns out we don't actually have the time to do it all. Right. And then the stuff that doesn't get done just happens to be the stuff that wasn't done earlier. You know, so it's sort of like random external factors or deciding what didn't get done. Right. As opposed to, let me take a few minutes and actually think about it and make some wise better choices about what doesn't get done, you know, as opposed to like this more role of the dice kind of a situation.
Yeah, absolutely. Because yeah, we have all these like things where like, well, yeah, the stuff that I got that I was doing earlier in the day, that got done because that's when I had the energy to do it. That was before I was feeling bad. Maybe I should put the things I really want to get done that part of the day.
Yeah, I kind of call they just because it makes for a nice alteration, don't spend gold on garbage. So in other words, that kind of deeper work, you know, like I really need to focus on this. I need some time uninterrupted, like good energy to really sort of lock in and do this. Right. Like that project deserves a special part of your day. And if you spend that or some of that day doing trivial things like loading the dishwasher or scrolling emails or whatever, right? Like you're using the best, most productive time on these like I could be half brain dead and I could still do it kind of stuff, you know. So like guarding that really good focus time and using it for the hardest things that you need to do.
I'm also seeing this through this lens of two things that I need know I need to work on being like, then I know I'm going to have these brain dead times. Don't put things that I feel are important there. Like if I want to have good friendships, don't put that the times that I'm only not functional. Like that's not good for me or my friends. I fall into that trap of being like, even though these are things that are fun and give my life meaning, I'm just going to put them to the side and we have them be the filler stuff.
Sure. I'll get to it eventually. Yeah. It sort of reminds me, there's a sex therapist and author, presenter named Marty Klein. He has this line where he said, sex is the thing Americans do when they're too tired to do anything else, right? And it's exactly the same idea, right? It's like honey, you are so important to me. Our relationship is so important to me. But I've got all these emails to return. So what if we hang out at, you know, 10:30 when we're both completely exhausted and have the least amount to give to each other? You know, so whether it's your friends, your relationship, your kid, your whatever, right? Like, is it getting your best time or your worst time?
Yeah, absolutely. It's one of the interesting aspects of productivity that I've been trying to figure out is like, how do I kind of redefine what productivity is for me? And being like, oh, this is more about doing the most important things that I want to do, less about checking things off on a list.
Yeah. Because the problem with checking things off on a list is that list always, it keeps growing. And also, by the way, who even put them on the list, right? And is it even the things that are actually the most worth doing? So, you know, like that's a part of it too. And even if you're just talking about something simple, like a to-do list, we're just more broadly about like the tasks that we take on. It's really easy to just sort of accept the tasks. Like, oh, I have to do this. I have to do that.
But not investing that kind of cognitive effort of, is this really, is this really a thing I want to do? Like, is this meaningful? Does it support some goal that's important to me? Is there a benefit to this? Is it really worthwhile? Right? And if we just kind of need jerks say yes, because either we just don't stop to think or we feel like we have to, you can want to agree on a lot of things. And then it's that kind of scenario of maybe being busy because you're doing a lot, but not necessarily productive in the sense of I'm doing the things that matter to me. I'm moving my life forward. I'm making a difference in the world.
And then we can also fall into the realm of a meta-productivity where we're working on our productivity and trying to be. And like some of that very important, having a functional to-do list. Great. Make sure you have that. Don't have a to-do list that you'd ever use. It is easy to also be like, I'm being productive, even though I'm not actually doing anything.
Look, I'm doing things that look like I'm being productive. To me, the sort of like favorite example of this is when everybody was all hot on bullet journals and people spent all this time making these amazing, beautiful looking bullet journals, but they weren't getting things done with it, right? It's like spending all your time sharpening the chisel and not actually doing any woodworking.
Yeah. And I mean, there is some aspect of being like, if doing that first part will get you to the second part, absolutely do it. That's fine. But if the first part is hindering you from getting to the second part, that's when you got to really look at it. Some people are like, yeah, I couldn't use my bullet journal if it didn't look beautiful. Great. Do that part to make it look beautiful and functional and everything you need. But if you're just doing it because that's your favorite part, you can still do that. That can be a fun thing for you to do, but don't make that be, get in the way of what you want to do.
Yeah. And I mean, and that's the thing, right? If fiddling with your bullet journal or your to-do list or your whatever becomes its own procrastination, then my feeling on that is do whatever you want. Just be honest about it. If you're like, yeah, my bullet journal is really more of an arts and crafts project, fine. Do it. Like knock yourself out. My only thing is don't say I'm doing this so I can get more done because you're not actually getting more done. And the only reason why I say it is not because I care what you're doing with your bullet journal, but you might care, right?
At the end of the day or at the end of the hour or whatever, when you look back or you can be like, God damn it. That was a total waste. Like I didn't, I didn't fricking get to any of the stuff I needed to do, right? Like if you're going to beat yourself up and feel bad about it, then I don't want that for you. On the other hand, if you're like, this thing looks awesome, check this out, right? And you feel good about it. Great!
Yeah. Because I know like when I'm finding myself being like, I can't get anything done. If doing that shift to being like, well, you know what? I'm not going to get anything done this next couple of hours. I'm going to actually take this time off. That feels good. But if I spend those two hours pretending to work and trying to get there, that I feel awful then. So it's really just kind of like reframing that in my mind and it really helps.
Yep. Exactly.
So I was wondering if there were any final thoughts you wanted to leave the audience with?
I think what I would say is productivity is complicated, right? There's a lot that can happen in any given moment that affects our ability to do the thing that we want to do or even to figure out what the hell we want to do. So it is complicated. So in that sense, you know, cut yourself some slack when you get stuck. But I think what I would also say is and therefore when you feel like the wheels are turning, like pull back a bit and like, OK, so wait, what is going on here? Like what am I missing? If this should be working and it isn't, then why isn't it? Right. And that it's not voodoo and it's not like, you know, impossible, you know, math equation. It's just you just need to kind of step back and do your best to figure it out and you try to figure out what you can do next.
The book is the ADHD Productivity Manual and should be wherever you buy books.
Yeah, it's good. I'm super psyched about it. I think there is a lot that's really great. I think the tone is just right and there's a lot of good information. And psychologist Marcy Caldwell, a friend of mine, did a bunch of awesome line drawing illustrations. So it just looks good, too, which is kind of cool.
Well, I'll definitely be looking out for it when it comes out. All right. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show and I'm sure people will really enjoy it.
Well, my pleasure. I'm glad our paths have officially crossed now.
Thanks again to Ari for coming on the show and thank you for sticking with us all the way to the end. Be sure to check out Ari's new book, the ADHD Productivity Manual. But before you go, let's do a quick rundown of today's top tips. One, make sure to include contextual details in your reminders, put the address, building name or even office location in the event title so you don't show up on the wrong time or in the wrong place. Two, make sure to distinguish between simple and easy.
Just because a task is straightforward, like taking out the trash or doing the dishes, doesn't mean it's easy to do, especially with ADHD. Three, be strategic with your best focus times. Don't spend gold on garbage. Use your high focus hours for harder tasks, not emails or unloading the dishwasher. Do less, but do so on purpose.
Sometimes productivity means pulling back and intentionally choosing what not to do instead of just trying to do everything poorly. Alright, that's it. Thanks for listening. I'd love to hear what you thought of this episode. Feel free to connect with me over at hackingyouradhd.com flash contact or you can find me on Blue Sky at hackingyouradhd.
If you'd like links or to read this episode's transcript, you can go to the show notes page at hackingyouradhd.com slash 228. And if you'd like even more hacking your ADHD, be sure to sign up for my newsletter, Any and All Distractions, which comes out every other week. In it, I give out my best distractions of the week, be they what I'm reading, what I'm playing or what I'm watching. I also try to give out a few bits of actionable advice in each newsletter, although your mileage is going to vary there. If that sounds like something you're interested in, head over to hackingyouradhd.com slash newsletter to sign up. I also wanted to make sure that you know about the hackingyouradhd Patreon, which you can find at hackingyouradhd.com/Patreon. I've gone with a pay what you want model, meaning that all levels of the Patreon will receive all the same stuff.
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And now for your moment of dad. What did the drummer call his twin daughters? Anna1 and Anna2?