Gutter Growth | Sales Mastery with Bobby Goglio

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What's going on guys? This is uh Tim with the Gutter Girth Podcast. I got Bobby G with me. What's going on, Bobby? How you doing today? Hey, hey, fantastic, fantastic. Even when I'm not, man. That's it, man. So I know that you have some background uh working with Leaf Filter. Um, can you go ahead and kind of fill us all in with your background story? Yeah, yeah. You know, it's kind of a a a unique story. I started out in door to door between the ages of like eight and ten uh selling magazines.

And at the time it was kind of like a Green Beret thing for me when I look back at it because I was so shy. Um, I got picked on quite a bit, that type of thing. And doing that and having that group of guys that came around the community and said, hey, we're looking for anybody and everybody who wants to, you know, go make some money and sell magazines door to door.

Did that. Uh it may not have been a business thing for me, but what it did is it helped me to accumulate the mental acuity to get alligator skin. Early on in life. And really, as I was doing that, I learned pretty quickly, both through experience and the people that were teaching us. That those people aren't necessarily rejecting me.

but are just kind of rejecting the offer at the time that offer at that time being magazines. So that that helped me lay a foundation of developing alligator skin early on. After that That's pretty young. Yes, it is. Very, very young. And I moved from that into I guess when I was twelve, thirteen, I started selling uh rainbow vacuum cleaners. Rainbow vacuum cleaners were pretty uh exclusive because they had the water in the bottom. I don't know if you remember that or not.

That was Kirby's nemesis back then, boy. I'll tell you what. But yeah, absolutely. And then I started selling Kirby's as well. And at the time, it's maybe a little bit different than nowadays or as of recent. you know we went door to door to get the appointments for Kirby as well, giving out free cans of Coca-Cola or free cans of Pepsi or whatever we could possibly give them to get in that door to sell that stuff. And then I think when I really, really reached my peak when it comes to sales.

is well not my peak. I should say when I graduated out of kind of being a kid selling and taking it serious and the goal being making money was selling frozen food. And uh I started selling frozen foods door to door. And that's when I realized that if you have a product that people not only need, But why? There's money to be made in it. I mean I was Bobby G the meat.

Right. Selling frozen foods door to door. And then I opened my own companies doing that. And at one point had like 60 salespeople out there. Uh selling frozen foods door to door. Interestingly enough, at the same time, Jordan Belford was doing the same thing. Uh who Jordan Belford is? I do. Yeah, the Wolf of Wall Street. Wolf of Wall Street, baby. Wolf of Wall Street. He's got a real popular uh sales training right now called the straight line method.

that is is pretty cool but yeah right before he got into penny stocks he was doing the same thing When I got done selling meat, that's when I was introduced to home improvements and the one called close.

I got introduced to that because I came on as a consultant with a large window company and sunroom company. And I knew through Tony Robbins already at that time that the best way to be elite in any endeavor. whether it's sports or business is to mirror and model somebody that's doing it on a high, high level. I had connected with somebody out in Flint, Michigan. When I was in Madison, Wisconsin, his name was Nick Richmond.

Nick Richmond was the cat's meow as far as I was concerned, right? I thought I knew how to sell prior to that, but when I met Nick Richmond, I found out what I didn't. And if I thought I had a system prior to Nick Richmond, that got erased when I met Nick Richmond because he was system, system, system system. And he had something that still uh sticks with me today, and that is doing the same thing regarding that system, doing the same thing over and over again without the bias to result.

Nick Richmond at that time was using a system called the Grasso system, Rick Grosso, who was kind of the G of the one call close back then and in-home sales, and really developing a system. The kind of cool thing about that is we skip to today, and now the person who now has taken on that legacy of Rick Grasso, who rest in peace has passed. Dominic Cominata, he now runs and owns Grasso University.

And I'm gonna be doing some collaborating with him. If you get a chance to look up uh Dominic Caminata's story as to how in 2010 he told himself. that he was going to carry on Rick Rosso's legacy and then fast forward 14 years later, he's doing exactly that in an absolute exact way. And it's because He buys into the same type of thing that I do, which is there is no sales, there's no consistency in any sales without a proven system that you can stick to.

That's true. I know that uh lead filter is pretty big on the systems, right? They are absolutely And did you work at C filter a little bit? I did. I worked with them for many years on and off. And my last year with them, I did about$344,000 in income in like eight months. If you average that out, you're looking at me finishing the year at well over$500,000. And my key thing at Leaf Filter was I wasn't always the number one closing ratio guy, but I was always the number one in the high ticket.

I believe that year I had like an 8,500 average sale, 8,500 average sale when the average person at that company, and they had a couple thousand reps at that time, right? The average person at that company was probably doing Thirty eight hundred forty five hundred dollar average sale. Okay. So I was most of the time twice as much. And that was my forte, was not necessarily being the number one closer.

You know, I was in top five, ten, number one closure, but I was always one, two, or three in the amount of money that I made. and capitalizing on that lead or that appointment and really loving the one you're with and getting as much money as you possibly can without gouging, right? Right. So you you had more profitable deals. I had much, much more profitable deals. Yeah.

And Leaf Filter is probably the epitome of a juggernaut in the sense that they got to where they are because of the fact that they have a extremely duplicatable system. Right. I mean, just about anybody, if you have the right manager, if you're honest, hungry, humble, and coachable. You can succeed at Leaf Filter because of the simplicity of their system that they've developed. That's what's got them to where they are today in being.

I think they'll probably finish off this year at two billion dollars with a few thousand sales reps, that's all.

Is it fair to say that most companies don't have a system at all when it comes to sales other than getting out there? Yeah, absolutely. Unfortunately for those independent sales reps out in those organizations. And, you know, for me, unfortunately for the consumer, right? Because I feel like people that have systems like the systems that I implement in my training, they not only create a easier job for the sales reps, because an unskilled sales rep

Causes problems with the consumer, right? The little poor old little old lady that just gets pressured because without skill set, you got nothing but pressure, right? So that that guy that you were telling me, did he work with um what what was the guy's name that's carrying on the legacy? That is Dominic Caminata.

And Dominic, he started I hate to tell his story'cause it's so magnificent. It's like he tells it best, right? Because you know, he's feeling he's feeling in his soul. But you know, I feel it in my soul a little bit when I hear the story because 2010 Dominic Commonata, he had never been in sales at all, right? Wow. He got in with a pretty successful company, but not

kind of average at the time. Mad City Windows, which is kind of the premier company around here now. Um he accelerated very, very quickly with that company, became the sales manager with that company. Back in like 2004 when I got into sales, I met Nick Richmond and he became my mentor in the one call close. He was using Rick Ross. Mad City, the brother there was running uh Mad City, and that was Nate Richmond. Well, guess what system he used? The Grasso system.

Well, in 2010, a little later on, Dominic Kamenata, who eventually became the manager, the sales manager over there, he said to himself, I am one day. Actually, he told Rick Gross. Early on. I am one day gonna carry on your legacy. Well, fast forward 14 years, 13 years later, he wins the boot camp that Rick Rosso would have, right? It was a competition. He won it. And he took uh

Rick Russell out to dinner said, you know, I just wanted to let you know and he assumed the sale because that's what us guys that are high level in sales do. We assume the sale all the time. And he said, I came to let you know and invited you to dinner to let you know I'm gonna carry on. Your uh legacy. And those guys used a system more than I've ever seen. The Mad City, I think, I think they might have did 180, 200 million last year. What is the Grasso system for those that don't know?

Uh the Grossel system is a one one-call close system whereby you're not worried about coming back the next day. You're not following up. You're pretty much done the day that you're there. You've got a system whereby you have the intro and warm up. You've got mindset versus skill set, which is when we drive up to a home, what do we do when we drive up to a home? You may not always be on your second or third appointment that day.

If it's your first appointment, you're going to want to get your mind right. So you want to uh what Dominic Kamenata calls um shadow clothes. So shadow closing meaning you'll go back to when you had that really successful sale. Everybody, including you, Tim, we got that story that we just can't stop telling about how we went in there. It went perfectly. The grandmother was there. The

Sister-in-law was there. There were five people there. Everything went great. They made us cookies. It was a twelve, fifteen thousand dollar sale and we made four thousand dollars, right? If we have the best time to succeed at any given task is after a previous success, right? Because we elite, we build on success to success to success. And some of us just live for it, right? We live for it.

Putting yourself first and foremost into that situation because the mind does not differentiate between something that really is happening. Or is just being envisioned if you really put yourself in that home. And you really just feel that place. You feel how it felt. You smell how it smelt. You can see the kitchen table. You can see what the kitchen looks like. Put yourself in that state to be ready to move and to succeed. So

That's the first and foremost step, right? Then you go to up to the customer's house and you know there's a certain way that you're gonna knock on the door versus ringing the doorbell, right? Friends normally are knocking on the door. Right. And the strangers the strangers being the buzzer and the cops, right? So we want to stay away from those two. You want a friendly cop.

You want a friendly knock. And that being said, there's a step-by-step process every single step of the way from how we knock on the door. from do we back up or do we s encroach into it? No, we back up. I always back up. Absolutely. I like to stand outside too. So it's like I'm not like boom staring at them when they come out. Just like all professionals do, absolutely, absolutely. So the Grasso system is exactly what it says. It is a system. So there is a step.

for everything from your mindset before you go in to where you're going to seat them at the kitchen table, right? to the discovery, to explain to them what's going to take place, down to a kill kit, your presentation, your company story, your pre-close. your evolution, your clothes, all the way down to the button up. And that's not all of the steps. I just do some in there, but all the way down to the button up. at the end of that sale you have that customer sell that product back to you

So w if it's your first call, what what are some of the things that you do to get yourself in that mindset from some previous wins? Like what's some couple tactics that you use? Mm-hmm. Well, I mean, like like I said before, uh when it comes to coming to there for the first time or coming to a sale and it's your first sale of the day, you're not gonna have that momentum that you need.

So a lot of times I'll do the Tony Robbins, you know, jump up and down, stick my chest out, right? And I will put myself in the past success that I had or something that's going to put me in the right mental state. Now, does it have to be that previous sale? Not necessarily. Maybe it's when you had your baby, right? And you really felt wonderful about that. Maybe you put yourself there and you start stacking. these memories is what Tony Robbins would say, right?

And getting yourself in the proper mental state. But what I do every single time is I will sit in the vehicle. And I will envision the best sale that I had or the one that I remember most recently that's going to put me in a positive state of achievement. Because I succeeded by closing that deal and watching myself go through everything that took place in that home. I want to remember everything I can. The more senses you can touch when you're envisioning that previous sale.

the more powerful and confident you're going to feel going into there because confidence is first and foremost when it comes because we're always going to fall to our highest level of preparation. And our preparation has to do with our mind as well, because you've heard it over and over again that 80% of this is psychology and 10 or 20% of it is the actual mechanics. It's true, and that momentum's really true too, I remember.

I remember one time I usually I would do like eight quotes in a day, but one particular day I did sixteen and I sold every single one of'em. I don't think I've ever done it Yeah, it was it was crazy. Sixteen in a row. Wow, that's phenomenal. Yeah, congratulations on that one. So there's your day, right? There's your mindset over skill set. No matter what has gone on with you that day, if you can effectively and accurately go back to that day and remember.

All the specific details of that 16 clothes day, which I've never had. I mean, so you're the king. It's hard to even do that many closing. Quantity closing in a day. Yeah, I can't imagine. I mean I mean for me uh most of the time it's taken an hour at least. So sixteen quotes. I mean I've put in sixteen sixteen hour days, but a whole lot of that is traveling. Right.

Yeah, no, it worked out that day. It was just I guess I had everything mapped out right. Like I had a estimate down the street and then down the street, but that's probably not duplicatable again. But it's definitely a wind to go back to. I've dreamt of days like that where there's an appointment twenty minutes or fifteen minutes away. I think I I I heard I I forget whose whose story that was. Was that Grant's story?

I think Grant had a story where he had a bunch of appointments that were fifteen, twenty minutes away from each other on one of his kill killer days. That's way different than in customary home improvement sales where you're running between an hour and two and a half hours to an appointment.

Um Martel had a question. He says, Do you rec recommend door knocking to acquire gutter jobs? Yeah, yeah. Actually, I mean, I did uh I built a whole home improvement company, you know, going door to door, right? Um, you've got to somehow create some sort of exclusivity. when you're going door to door like that. But if you've got the proper system and the proper steps in place, I feel like a door-to-door nebulous lead or appointment like that is really strong.

Not only is it really, really strong, but it's a non-competitive appointment. Because half the time when you go there, these people, when you're doing door-to-door, they're not completely conscious. of the need that they have till you bring that to their mind, right? Now they're conscious of the need that they have. The odds of them now calling saying, well, gee, this guy just came door to door. Let me go get a few more estimates.

is pretty nil, right? Right. When you're doing door to when you're doing door to door, you're the exclusive appointment. Right? You're the exclusive appointment. Not to mention, if somebody's going door to door and they set an appointment with you and they let you inside of their home, guess what? They wanna buy. You're a complete stranger that just came knocking at their door and you're setting it up.

Especially if they let you in the house. And listen, you got to get in the house. And we can talk about that later on, or we can talk about it now. But the odds of closing that deal on the doorsteps is depreciated quite a bit if you're not getting in the home. And I got a beautiful way to get in the home, let me tell you.

Beautiful way. Can you walk us through that process? What is a how would you approach a door-to-door um knocking for gutter jobs? Like I know that the way I would approach it, it would be in a neighborhood that I'm already Yeah, yeah, I would definitely recommend um in a neighborhood that you're already working in, when I did uh door to door frozen foods, right, we would always make sure that we went to an area where we had a couple cups.

Right. Hey, I was just making deliveries to some of your customers, you know, Mr. and Mrs. Jones. I don't know if you know them or not. And hey, uh, I've got steak, chicken and seafood for less than eight dollars a steak. You eat steak, right? Absolutely. So what we did as youngsters, right? We had a receipt book and they used to eat steak, right? And it'd be a brochure inside of it. And I'd say, Great.

Check this out. I'll be right back. Hold on one second. I'll show you what I got. I'm handing them the brochure, but my receipt book's in there with it. So that's my property that we would leave with them back then. That's awesome. So so how would you approach it on a gutter job? Anagutta job, you know, it's been a while. The last time I did door to door was windows, right? So I had to come up with some sort of exclusivity or, you know, call to action at the door.

And ours was if I could show you a way how I could say not only get you a house full of windows, but have those windows pay for themselves within two to three years, is that something you'd want to hear more about? I think when it comes to generating leads and appointments door to door, you got to come up with an alternative choice question, right? Not be so direct like what I just said. Is that something you'd like to hear more about?

Um, I would first take a look at the house very, very closely and as inconspicuously as I possibly can prior to going up there. And I think it would be very similar in the pain point that you would be able to convey to that potential customer is, you know, when you've got Uh tiger striping on the gutters. Listen, I was just in your neighborhood. We were just uh taking care of the job down the street, Mr. and Mrs. Jones.

Uh they went and replaced all their gutters and downspouts. You know, as I was walking by, I noticed kind of the same thing that Mrs. Jones has. You know where that gutter connects to that fascia board there? Well there happens to be water going back behind there. And that usually happens because it's not sealed up. Hey, if I could give you a absolutely free home inspection and free estimate, that's at least you want something you'd want to hear more about, right?

Yeah, at least so I know that the cost. And that was impromptu, right? I haven't done door to door since two thousand and seven. I built the built a home improvement company, a full line home improvement company that did exteriors, and we did not buy any leads, appointments, or nothing for. 16 months we did just door to door. So as long as you can get the proper licensing in those areas and you develop an actual script that works.

It can be phenomenal. I mean, I had teams out there, the average person was out there getting four, five, six appointments every single day. That's not bad. That's self produced equipment. It's just like uh in sales though, right? You can't just wing it. You can't just go door to door and just hope for the best, saying something different every single time. You got to develop a specific script.

That has the proper intro, the proper warm-up, it's gotta be quick. Then it's gotta have the proper alternative choice call to action. And then you do that same thing over and over again because if you do the same thing over and over again, regardless of the bias to result on whether you get that appointment, the law of averages is just going to kick. And then it's just a mathematical equation. You know, we knew back then selling me.

That if we knocked on a hundred doors, we were going to be able to talk to 20 people. 10 people were potentially going to let us show the product.

And four or five of those we're gonna buy every time. It was just a mathematical equation. And you know, when I think today about, you know, views and clicks and that type of thing. It's the same type of thing, right? If you spend two dollars and you're getting a certain amount of success and you get 10 customers for spending two dollars, how many times do you want to spend two dollars to get those 10 customers? I know I just have to have a

I haven't really done any door to door since maybe seems like oh eight, oh nine, oh ten around there. Um I know my approach was I I wasn't really knocking on just anyone's door. I was kind of looking for problems before I knocked on the door. That way I had something to address. You know. Yeah, absolutely. So they could they could have a a new roof being put on and

Just downspouts on the wall. Or, you know, if I see some gutter falling off, or like you said, tiger striping everywhere and the gutters just look a mess. Um, those are the houses that I targeted just to kind of save time. And you know, I sold jobs with it, but I wouldn't say it was like my number one strategy when I was growing uh a business. I preferred hot leads. Um because you could do digital door knocking too, where you're you're having uh you know people come to you.

Yeah. Here's another question. Is there a certain license to go door to door? Do you need a solicitor's license? Um, you know, I didn't back then. Um, but yes, right now you do have to have a solicitor's license. Uh most places you're at. I don't know where you don't have to. Um, I know at the time it they just started doing it when I was kind of venturing off into some other things.

And uh you paid like thirty dollars or something, you gotta have the license ahead of time. Some places are gonna want you to get it three days in advance, sometimes seven, sometimes ten. All your people are gonna need to wear badges.

And all your people are gonna have to get background checks as well. So If you're going to do it the right way and you want some longevity to it so you're not getting complaints, so that the next time you want to go to that township, that city, that village, they let you do it again because if it catches doing without it, they probably won't let you go back. Absolutely. I think that just about every place now you do have to have a license, a solicitor's license to go door to door.

I feel like it's probably a county or city thing. Um, so you'd probably want to check with the county or city that you're in. Yeah. It's not that expensive, I know that. It's just more of a headache coordinating it because you know they got to do a background check so it's gonna be you got to apply seven days ahead of time i know there's a place in wisconsin uh 30 days ahead of time uh in elk horn wisconsin but some of those places is because they don't want you there

So he said, uh what's a good method you found for digital door knocking? I was just using that word referring to marketing periods. So, like, you know, Google AdWords or Facebook or anything to bring hot leads into you. I feel like it's much easier to have

five or eight appointments a day if they're already looking for that service. Um, and me personally, I I think the door knocking's good, like if you're in a neighborhood and you're hitting that street. That's probably how I How I would manage it. just putting someone out in the street every day. Uh what's your feelings on that?

Yeah, I agree. I think that a lot of times, you know, people that are doing the door knocking are doing the door knocking because they're either a newer business or they're trying to work with a shoestring budget. I think that when all of the dust settles. All of that door to door, all of the headache, all of the pain for those, all of the turnover because of the door to people that are doing the door to door for you.

I think it really saves you money to spend the money ahead of time on some quality, you know, ad campaigns, whether it be Google search word. whether it be uh Facebook, whatever it may be, where those people call you because The closing percentage is always, and maybe some people will disagree with me. That's okay. Uh, the closing percentage is always going to be higher.

when people are calling you. Always. Yeah, I agree. Now it's sometimes the drawback, I mean not the drawback, but the um The sacrifice you have to make is that it's not going to be that nebulous appointment where they're not going to get other bids. When people are calling you, usually they've been on the phone and they've called other people or Angie's list is sending a few people out there. So it's gonna be a little more of a competitive appointment.

And that's where uh a sales system comes into place. So that you know how to do things like deal with competitive appointments and getting around shop around and getting around I want to have new estimates and that type of thing. But I personally think and I've gone through this. With experience. And dealing with all nebulous leads, all door-to-door, all show, all how cheap can I get these leads and appointments.

I want quantity, not quality. Right. And that's how I started out in the home improvement business back in 2004, doing that same thing. And you're gonna have the quality now. You're gonna have different leads that are you know different qualities. Like I track the KPIs, I help my guys track the KPIs on of course each uh each sales source or each uh lead source. So you might have a lead that's you know costing you fifty dollars.

But your closing rate is just very low on that one because it's real competitive. Or you might have another lead source that's costing you a hundred dollars per lead, you know, but you're actually closing more of them and the ticket price is higher.

you know or you could have a lead source that you're selling quite a bit on but your tickets your ticket price is way lower on that source so i think it's good to dial in you know the numbers of how much is the lead cost to me, um what's my closing ratio, what is the job cost to me, and what is my uh closing you know ticket ticket price your average And if you dial in those numbers, you'll be able to figure out which um

which method is gonna work best. And I usually try to stick to three different ones. You don't just want to do one thing. You want to be in several places, but it's figuring out those three top performing um lead sources. Yeah, absolutely. You know, when I was uh first going into home improvement consulting and owned a couple of home improvement companies. uh by myself as well, you know, three to five of those lead generating systems.

and appointment generating systems and you just kind of move around that money as to what's working better at that time and then you just start funneling money into that area until that changes because throughout the year different times different things are gonna work better than others.

So Bobby, uh going back to it, now you're doing um you actually do sales training now. I do. And one of the things that I do that I feel And many of my clients agree, keeps me sharp is I continue to go out into the field and sell. Uh I'm fifty seven years old. Um, I've been doing it for a long, long time. There's been times where I've stopped doing it, but I'm a big uh fan of Roman culture. I'm a hundred percent Italian, so I'm a big fan of Roman culture. I want to lead like Julius Caesar now.

I'm not going into his politics or politics in any way and whether you like him. That's not my point. My point was that he was an extremely famous leader. And one of the reasons he had such loyalty and commitment from his warriors is because he led from the front. Right. So that being said, I lead from the front. I lead from the front because I get out of this shirt, I get into a polo, and I go out there and I close deal.

With the one call close system that I teach, I close those deals at a high, high level. I close those deals at a of you know eight nine ten thousand dollars for just gutters and gutter protection. Most of the time gutter protection. So my forte is closing those deals at a high value. If you were ever, if you're familiar with those percentages, everybody's got a par, a list, and a plus.

I'm closing deals and my clients are closing deals at 120, 130, 140% the list almost all the time because they're using a proven system. I feel like a lot of guys are just not selling leaf produ or leaf filter products or leaf protection products when they should be. And uh Yeah, I mean you could almost double the ticket price if you're selling it. How do you convey that to customers that they need Absolutely you can. Um, trauma.

is the main thing. And I think it's I'm not really sure. I have not talked to that many uh just gutter salespeople. In fact, I think you might be um probably the most successful just gutter sales guy that I've ever met. Um it's the trauma, right? When we go up to a house. There's a few things that we do. You know, we want to I always have a release of dopamine when I go up to the house. I introduce myself with and let them know how company.

Um Tim, I know you've been excited about the gutter Joe, a little horny, right? And after I've done that and introduced myself and let him You know, one of the things One of the things that I always like about tiger striping, right? You see that black stuff up there you see that black stuff up here?

Yeah. Tiger striping that water that's going over the front, guess what else it does? It's kinda that water is going over the front. Now you see connects to a fascia wrap that connects to a fascia board We lost you. We'll give them a second to come right back on. Back. You're back. All right, I guess we have some technical difficulties. That's all right. So creating trauma.

We've established ourselves as the professional. We made them laugh with a corny joke because I want to release that dopamine because there's a little bit of sales resistance when we first get there, right? Everybody's kind of feeling each other out. That gutter is connected to a fascia wrap that is connected to a board behind that. Okay. Now when that water runs over the front, and you can see because of the tiger striping, wouldn't you agree that you've probably seen water run over the front?

Yeah. When it runs over the front, it also runs over the back. And when it runs over the back, it gets behind that piece of metal. That metal's there to protect that board. It's not supposed to get wet. You see that gap up there between the gutter and the facial board? That gap, that's not supposed to be Okay. With gutter protection, once we rebuild the inside of your gutters and put brackets inside of their seal it up really nice.

Now the gutters are like brand new or replace the gutters if we need to replace the gutters, right? If you're in the gutter business, you're not going to say you're going to rebuild gutters, you're going to replace the gutters almost every time and find a reason to do so. Now, after we've got your new gutters up there.

Your problem's not going to be completely solved. I'll be completely transparent with you guys. If I just took these gutters down, put all brand new gutters, all brand new downspouts on there. Another five years or so you might have the same darn problem. But I'll tell you what, we have a gutter protection solution where we put that gutter protection on there. Now you're not even gonna have a grain of sand.

So now you never ever have to worry about protecting your gutters again and keeping debris out of there. I mean if you could have a permanent solution that would put you in position to never have to clean these gutters again. That's at least something you'd want to hear more about, isn't it? I think it is. That's it. Let's see.

What's a great app for the gutter business? I've heard Jobber. Um, yeah, I I like Jobber. I've used a couple of them, but Jobber is probably the best. And one thing I like about Jobber is that you could add on um line. And these line items you could have it to where it's not reflective on the on the price and let's say opt into it. So I used it for up. Because a lot of times you know You could put splash blocks in there, leaf guard.

um ground spouts, you know, these underground drainage. You could offer them things and I like to call it the power of suggestion. If you don't if you don't ask or if you don't tell, you're not gonna get I would I like it because I could use it to suggest things and it doesn't scare them away with the price, but they could still see the price and then opt in.

And some people do it I I didn't do it this way. Some people did it where the invoice was just completely zeroed out and they had to opt into everything and kind of build their I didn't particularly did that. I would go for what they were asking me and then I would have other options and I would let'em know. Um, so I think that's a great app for upselling. Nice. So tell us a little bit more about the uh the sales mastery.

All right. So I I think that's, you know, my philosophy on sales is I've read a lot of Chris Voss, who is a hospital. negotiator, a lot of psychology uh behind uh sales. And I think first and foremost, you have got to develop a system, right? I have a system whereby it's been built over probably the last 18 months. that I was in full-time direct sales. I've stuck with that same exact thing. And I think that when you have a presentation that is built to have objection prevention.

You're much more able to close that deal at a higher level than just at the end with objection overcoming because. I felt like that's what sales was all about early on in my sales career. Just overcoming objection, overcoming objection, overcoming objection before the client just kind of clams up because they admit, yeah, you're that good. You got an answer for everything, but you really have not established the wants.

need and built the value. So my thing is having how do you get ahead of it? How do you get ahead of building the value? Well, how do you get ahead of the objections? Like how are you hitting the objections before they actually get Yeah. So I mean shop around is a big objection. I think everybody has dealt with that. Again, I haven't sold just gutters uh consistently. I always sold the gutters with the gutter protection, right?

But shop around's a big deal. So I don't know if you guys have heard of a kill kit, but you know, in every industry you should have like a kill kit, which is, you know, some of your competitors. And if you're gonna move into Adding that value to your business and having gutter protection. Let me just digress for a second. I think if you're doing just gutters,

It's a challenge. It's got to be a challenge to differentiate your gutters from somebody else's gutters, right? They're coming out of the same machine. You're all coming out of the same machine. So ultimately they're going to be buying you and you got to differentiate. between you and somebody else they met with, create the proper rapport, and you got to differentiate your company. And that's all you have to go with.

If you incorporate a gutter protection system into what you're selling, you now can choose a gutter protection system that has a unique selling proposition. What is it about that gutter protection system that separates you from everybody else? I think everybody's selling gutters. should be selling gutter protection systems.

Right. Because then when you got people that say, I'm sure you guys must hear this all the time, well, our gutters aren't that old. They're only four, five, six, seven years old. We just need you to put a little, you know, caulk right there and seal it up for us. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I I heard um I would listen to Jeremy Mitchell, which is a a a friend of yours. Yeah. Right. He's we he's a mutual friend of ours. And you know, he talked to a guy that had like 900 jobs. Right? Nine hundred jobs.

He said some of those jobs were just, you know, 20-foot jobs, 10-foot jobs, that type of thing. I think gutter protection and incorporating gutter protection into your gutter business will help to eliminate some of that. and help to differentiate because now you can pick a gutter protection system, like I said, that has that unique selling uh proposition.

And I don't know what your approach was, but my approach for selling um any leaf protection is people would be like, oh well they don't work. You have to clean them off. You may have to clean them off. There may be maintenance that you have to do with them. So I never like promise anyone that you never have to maintenance it. But the thing is, is water is heavy, right? And one gallon of water is 8.33 pounds.

So if you have a system to where you got leaves clogging up the downspouts and now your whole system has water to the brim. Like you got hundreds of pounds just hanging at the edge of your roof line. You're sagging that gutter, but you're also dragging down your roof line. Um, rot is called caused by moisture content. So if you have a water or gutter full of water to the brim,

That's just putting moisture up at the roof line and eventually it is going to cause rot. So there is good reasons to have gutter protection, even if you end up having to maintenance them. And you know, hey, you could sell my maintenance plan on top of it and now have some residual income. So that was kind of my approach to pushing them towards it. Um, but I think he nailed it with having a, you know, a certain product that kind of differentiates yourself.

Yeah. And you know, I think that people don't realize what they're missing out on. They people talk about, you know, how much maybe a system costs or sales training cost, right? The price. It's how much is it costing you not to have a system? You've got to develop some sort of system. I mean there's the three players right, you know, I have a great system, Jeremy Mitchell has a great system, and I think the most exemplary system on the planet is Grasso University and Dominic Caminata.

Um, those people that I just mentioned, they can help you guys develop that system that you're gonna be able to do over and over again and be able to predict.

What kind of sales you're gonna get? When you have a system, you can predict. I mean, the average out there is like 45 or 50 percent closing ratio on a$6,500 sale, right? I mean if Yeah, I mean, you got to ask yourself, if I go out and I talk to 100 people and have 100 appointments, am I going to average$6,500 per sale and am I going to close half of?

And now you were doing this without follow-up, so this is just strong close on the spot. No follow-up. I mean I didn't do any follow-up either, personally. Yeah, we I learned I learned early on. I mean, when you're out selling meat and you're going door to door and you got the meat on your truck on a freezer, right? You're not, you know, packing that meat back up. You're not packing that meat back up and then saying, hey, okay, you know, we'll say greenbacks don't uh give you the payback.

Right back then selling mead. So yeah, I don't wanna say we're burning that thing to the ground because if you're a consummate professional, you're gonna leave that individual, you're gonna leave that potential customer. Better off than when you got it. Whether they buy or not. However, you know, you're going to make sure that you understand that if you've got the best product. With the best warranties. And you've got the best company.

And they got the best guy out there because I'm out there. You've got a fiduciary responsibility to that consumer. If you know this is going to solve their problem. To do everything that you can to be an assistant buyer. And what my philosophy is to ultimately bridge. The pain of purchase over to the pleasure of ownership. So we're building that bridge.

As we're going along, as we're developing po rapport, as we're developing trauma, as we're showing them where the solution, as we do the proper kill kit and demonstrations so that we eliminate the competition as we give them a three option close so it's easy to buy right And that is we do the proper button up. When you got a system like that.

You have a fiduciary responsibility to make sure that you do everything you can to be the assistant buyer and overcome their objections. And the best way to overcome the objections, like I said, is to incorporate those into your presentation.

What is your approach on the uh three system code? Okay. Um, well, I do what is called a pretty lengthy drum roll before the segue to the three options. That drum roll being what separates you from everybody else? If you're just doing gutters, you've got to have some way. Is your material thicker? Are you using thicker brackets? Are you going to hit every roof rafter at 18 inches on center? Are you going to skip every other one like a lot of

Gutters that I've seen before, right? Are you gonna pay special attention to make sure they're pitched perfectly, right? What is going to differentiate you from everybody else? You've got to have something that's going to differentiate you from everybody else. And You got to have some sort of way to eliminate the competition. You know, I know how to do it with.

Gutter protection, you got to figure out what's going to separate you because you got to have some sort of separation, some sort of exclusivity between your company, the other company, your product, the other product, the brackets, the sealant. the way you install it, something has got to separate you from the competition. Once I've gone through all those things, right? Because when it comes to gutter protection, one of the things that we sell is not, at least the company that I contract.

Now is Unlike most people that are going to come out here and say, yeah, Tim, we can protect your gutters and get a cutter protection system up, but the first thing we got to do is we got to replace all of these three-year-old gutters that you just got three years ago. Right. We don't do that. You know, we actually rebuild the gutters, right? That water that you saw going back behind there, what we do solves all of it. Because not only are we going to clean those gutters out completely by hand.

But we're going to replace all the brackets inside of this. We're going to make sure we hit a roof rafter every 16 inches. We're going to be knocking it up and down, making it pitch just perfectly. Then what we do, unlike most companies that come out, is we're going to seal the end. Seal around the down spout. Seal around all your inside corners. Seal around all your outside corners.

So just like when I was a kid and we would race cars a lot on the country road in high school that I was at, good old Deerfield, Wisconsin, we did two things. Us kids chase girls and race cars. And we blew a lot of motors. You know, we were young, broke kids. You think we could afford to buy new motors? No. But guess what we did with those motors?

We rebuilt them. You're absolutely right. That's what we're gonna do to your gutters. We're gonna rebuild these like a high performing engine before we even think about putting a gutter protection system on top of there. Once that's done. Then we put the gutter protections. That's a lot to do. So once I've done that and I've spent enough time letting them know the drum roll and everything we're going to do, that's when I go into the

Right. There's a lot to be said about the, you know, making yourself stand out. And the way like I sold a lot of my guys, like my salesmen, they would sell all the K-style stuff. So they had like, you know. two thousand, three, six thousand dollar tickets. I sold more of the high end stuff like commercial gutters, uh copper gutters. So a lot of my sales were in between ten to a hundred and twenty grand.

Um on copper I had like a ninety percent close rate, which you would think you're probably not selling it high price enough. That that wasn't the case. Um one of the last copper jobs I sold was eight thousand dollars more than the competition. Um but what I did was I I made myself I showed what was different and I showed them the details.

So like when it came to copper, I was letting them know like every detail. Like it's gonna be two and a half feet on center. Um, we're using stainless steel screws. Copper rivets, uh soldering, and it was just telling them all those details. And differentiation I put this in even if I didn't sell it on the spot, I would put this bid together because a lot of these copper customers they're definitely getting three.

Um, but me having all these details in there, now they have things to question the next guy. And they start using your details to question the next guy, and that guy fumbles on it, boom, you got

Sure. So I I had a lot of that where it's just that gave'em so much detail of what makes me different. And then even if I didn't close it on the spot, now they're using that to question other guys and They're fumbling on it and boom, just because they fumbled they didn't get the sale or because they didn't know that particularly. Yeah, just to, you know, circle back.

uh the three option close right ultimately once again i'm trying i'm throughout the presentation seamlessly building the bridge between the pain of purchase And the pleasure of ownership as seemly as possible. So if I've done everything right, price is never going to be an area of concern. If you've built the value high enough, differentiated you between the competition, eliminated the competition in your pre-close, and we can reverse back on a pre-close here shortly. But the three option close.

Is a sharp angle multiple choice alternative of choice close. So at the end, I would simply say. Hey, you know, Tim, I always have three types of customers when I come out and see nice folks like you guys. You know, the first type of customer, they'll just write a check. For this job done. And those people, those people absolutely insist on writing a check, Tim. The second type of customer, they'll use a credit card.

Sometimes, you know, I'll run into people that have the same problem you have. You know, they got that water running over the back just like you got. They know that this is a little more urgent, just like you know it's more urgent now that I'm out here. And they'll use one, two, sometimes three or four credits. Sometimes people use credit card just because of the miles, right?

And the third type of customer that I have is uh a customer that just does easy pay at 0%. Now here's the key right here. I'm out of character right now, okay? That's the three after close. But then I'm saying, so what type of customer do you think you'd be? A check customer, a credit card customer? Or are you like everybody else I talk to? You just at least want to hear more about how these easy pays work at zero.

So that was the three-option close. If I've done everything right till then, everybody wants to buy. Chris Voss, he's a hostage negotiator. He'll tell you that when they call you out there, they already want to buy. You just have to be carry careful not to make them unbuy or make them unbelieve, right? So

They, if they want to buy, and I've given them an alternative of choice question about do you want to take care of it in check, credit card, or do you just want to hear more about how these easy pays work? If they say Yes, we'd like to hear about how these easy pays work. What have they just done?

They almost just bought. They almost just bought and they're because they know what's going on. I mean subconsciously they know what's happening that if they answer one of those, they're purchasing, but it's Kind of painless, right? To say, yeah, I'd like to hear more about how those easy pays work at zero percent. Now you've corralled them right over. We have got an option for everybody. And I can tell you this: if you don't have financing,

Get it. Did it yesterday? How do you use for it? Do you have any suggestions? Um Green Sky and Wells Fargo are the ones that the my current client that I work with that I subcontract and sell with right now uses. Uh while Fargo is great because of the fact that they've got six months, 12 months, 18 months, 36.

You can get thirty-six for sure, depending upon how what kind of a veteran company you are and what kind of volume, you can potentially get forty-eight in sixty months. I mean, if you've got 60 months, you can generally get just about every job in 120 to 180 uh dollar a month with no interest. Right. Yeah. I mean in this in this business, if you're not selling the payments. You're cutting your income by 65, 70%. Because guess how many of my deals are financed?

How many percent? Eight percent? Absolutely. Because And one of my business associates I told him that and he said that's because you sell the payment. It's because of the way you do the presentation, right? Because ten thousand dollars is a big deal for most folks. Until that$10,000 turns into a$180 or$200 a month payment. That's a lot more palatable.

You don't feel it. I mean, our all of our lives are that way, right? Unless you've become independently wealthy and then you still know how to leverage your money, right? So even people that are independently wealthy, they're buying on payment. They're not buying they're not going out and paying cash for a house and cash for a race. Even even the the highfalutin, you know, rock stars and rappers.

that are telling these fibs about buying the stuff with cash, they're leasing or paying payments on all that stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Budget is where everybody's at. If you don't have a finance program Get it and you'll double the amount of sales that you have right now. And if you can't double them, come to me and I'll show you exactly how to double them a lot of their objections to cost might be real. They might not have that money on hand right now.

Sure. Absolutely. It's kind of eliminating that objection because hey, you don't have to have that money. You can pay smaller and it's it's a lot easier to develop a one call close sales mastery system, the right now or nothing sale. when it's a payment.

When they have to think about a ten, fifteen, twenty K deal and where they're gonna move around that money and reallocate it, that's a whole lot different than the thinking about, hey, you know, at the end I t say to them flat out, I say, you know, hey Tim, I mean for Fifteen hundred dollars worth of savings.

Doesn't it just make sense to take care of this problem forever? So you never have to worry about replacing this fascia board for$30,000 down the road? Because I'm sure you agree, Tim, this problem's not gonna go away, right? So Martel Ask. Doesn't it just make sense to take advantage of that$1,500 savings while I'm here? And can you afford$180 a month without taking food off? That's a whole lot gentler. That's a whole lot more seamless, right?

That helps me to get from that pain of purchase to the pleasure of ownership a lot easier by asking if they can afford a hundred and eighty dollar a month payment than to ask them, hey, would you like to purchase this twelve thousand dollars today? And you got a check.

Yeah, no, I agree. So you gotta sell the payment. Martel's got a question here. If a sale is on the if a sale is on the fence, would you consider mentioning the payment plan and or price on the drop? So I guess that they're giving you a little bit of a...

resistance after you tell'em the price is that I mean you're going into it kind of already telling them that there's an option for payment plan, right? You're not waiting until the end when they're like, oh the price No, because um this isn't the you know the old days where we're gonna give them I I don't anyways, I don't give them this big price break because they're using check, credit card, or finance. Um when it comes to finance.

We've uh developed a procedure and a system whereby the price of the financing is incorporated into the price to begin with. So I'm always using the three option close every single time without the the bias of results. And if you have the right uh system in place where you're building the value, right? You're showing them the competition.

You're eliminating the competition and getting them to say, yeah, it's going to be either ABC gutters or ABC gutter uh protection or nothing. Price is not going to be an issue. When you're telling them about these options, are you telling them, are you asking those questions whether a check person, you know, a credit card person, or you know, what whatnot? Are you asking them that before you actually tell them the price or is this after you tell them the price?

Well, interestingly enough, um it's a it's a little of both. What I do is um I guess it's it is after the price. Yeah, it's after the price. Yeah, that makes sense. I'm telling them I'm what I'm doing actually is I'm telling them a retail price. A lot of times people will advocate these huge, huge drops in price.

I don't think you need to do those huge drops in price. I think it actually is counterproductive if you have these huge drops in price because you have to have a good enough story for that drop. Um and the bigger the drop, I think the more credibility you lose. So it's you don't have to have much of a drop, right? It can be a thousand, fifteen hundred bucks, whatever the case may be.

But I tell them about that drop and then immediately from that drop, I go into the three option close and the three option close is always. Spending a little bit of time on the check, who writes check, check, credit card, or are you like most everybody else I talk to? You know, I'm I'm using the tribal drawn. methodology there like everybody else I talk to, you just at least want to hear more about how these easy

Once they say, yeah, I'd like to know how the easy pays work, they really subconsciously are just really glad that I asked them in that way, right? Because I didn't, they didn't have to say, yes, I'd like to purchase today. Yeah. And you're you're asking them in a way that's letting them know that, hey, almost everybody does this. Yeah. And it's true. I mean, almost everybody does.

I would say, I would say uh the last year that I did it full time direct sales, I would say it was about 78, 74% of all of the customers that I acquired.

So Tommy says, Do you refer to that drop in a certain terminology like same day signing discount? Just just absolutely do. I never did discounts. I I absolutely do do that. Once again, it's not a huge discount, but I'm also very upfront about. And why we're doing it. Okay. You know, um, and I like to do this, I'll have the retail price there. And when I get done and we get the price, and I did the drum roll of all the benefits. Now we've got a retail price, Tim, that's good for a year.

Okay. Now you could call me tomorrow, you could get it for that retail price. You could call me a month from now, you could get it for that retail price. Or heck, you could wait a year. Now that does not apply to you. That's because when we were Talking at the sink, you previously mentioned that if the price or the payment was right, you might consider doing it today while I'm here. So that qualifies you for what we call a same-day purchase. Now what's that mean? That means exactly what it's

That means we call right now while I'm here. We get you on the production schedule while I'm here. You are helping us. By keeping our installers busy, booked out 10 days. So we reward you for helping us by helping you back and giving you a same-day purchase discount. That same day purchase discount normally is this today or this month. It's 10%. That's a lot of money. And I get to figure it out. That saves you$1,200, what brings it all the way down to

$9,421. Now, when I come out and see nice folks like you, I always have three types of customers. And there you go. You move into the three option clothes. Yeah, I think that part of where the same day purchase discount or same day price drop becomes a challenge is because when you when you play games with it, right? Like that's what it is. It's the same day purchase.

That means you actually get on the production schedule while I'm here today. Now, what did I say? Did I say that means you buy today? I caught something there that you said and it was like a pre-qualifying question. You asked them, you know, if the price is right, would you buy today? So you're kind of getting that rid of that objection right up front.

So you already know that you already know that, you know, it's gonna come down to price at the end. And if they're saying no, you already know what that objection was. Yeah, we're it we're at least, you know, what we like to call dipping their toes in the water, right? Testing their temperature. Cause after we do what's called a sink demo. Right. We've eliminated the competition. When it comes to gutter protection, you've got all the competitors with.

You know, I always like to say to people this way, you know what I've been doing for probably twelve years now, Tim, I've been bringing all of the top ten gutter protection systems with. like you. Now we don't carry these. I'm not gonna endorse them, but hey Tim, sometimes people like to shop around, don't they? Well guess what? I'm bringing the gutter protection mall with me today so you and I can shop around together. Bring'em out.

Do the prices. And if you're honest about it, you're gonna research all their prices. You're gonna build the value high on the most expensive gutter protection system out there. I don't want to be on this live I'm trying to trash anybody, but there's one gutter protection system that's really expensive, one cheap. I show them back in between. You know, guys, it doesn't sound like you're too excited about any of these other products out there.

Um, you didn't like this, you didn't like that. Why didn't you like this? Get them talking about why they didn't like some of those other products. You know, listen, Tim, I mean, that's why you called us out here. You show them your product, right? Then after you show'em your product.

Um, it sounds like you wouldn't even entertain any of these cheaper versions out here. You eliminate the competition, go to the sink, and when I show that in the sink and you do a masterful sink demo with that data protection product. Let me ask you guys this. I mean obviously you got some changes you want to make out

At some point, am I right? I mean, like if not now, at some point in the future. Seeing so it's not a matter of if but when. I always like to ask everybody, hey, if I could get the value right. The total investment or get that initial payment, the noise or payment right for you. Can you think of any reason other than the right payments or the right price as Please consider letting me earn your business while I'm here today. I mean, yes, no, maybe get out of my house, Bobby.

That was a little bit of a tense moment, so I say that, you know, little stupid corny joke, first off, because I don't look like the guy who's gonna tell the stupid corny joke, right? I don't exactly look like the kid next door. Right. So when I say something corny, when I say something corny, it's even more corny, right? But what does that do?

That releases those endorphins and that dopamine and their subconscious mind. I don't care what they say or what they do. When I say something like that, their subconscious mind is relaxing. And they're either going to say, Oh yeah, I mean if the price is right, sure we'd consider, or they're going to say, Oh no, we never make that decision no matter what. But guess what my answer is every single time to

What's that? No problem. No problem. No worries. Let's take a look at the install and see what you think of that. I'm not trying to close them there. I'm not trying to deal with objections there because there can be no objection. It's not there can be no objection prior to what? The price. There can be no objection to proprietary price. They were just dipping their water in, but what did I let them know? What am I going to be doing at the end?

I'm going to be asking for the sale. That just told them right there that I'm going to be asking for the sale. Now they get to marinate on that. And I'm not just rushing them with asking for the sale at the end with no prep. The pre-close is just to test their temperature to see where I'm at. Maybe I missed something, right?

Maybe I need to double back a little bit, but it's testing the temperature as to where they're at. And if you've done a masterful presentation, if you developed the right perfor, if in the beginning you established yourself as the professor, If you've created trauma, trauma, trauma, you've created not only a want, but a need, because this is not going to get better. If you've eliminated the competition, built the right value, built, did the right sync demo.

They're going to say, well, yeah, what the heck? It depends on the price. Sure, that's why I got you out here, right? Nine times out of ten, they're going to go along with it at the sink during the pre-close.

Yeah, man, that makes a lot of sense. Um So we're kind of running out of time here. How how can people work with you or get a hold of you? What's the best way to reach out? Um, well, there's two ways. I'm going to be collaborating with uh Dominic Kamenata and Matt Burke at Grosso University. That's G-R-O-S-S-O-University.com. And you can actually reach out to me. I like to stay very personable. There's multiple ways you can reach out to me, but the best way to do it is to just text me.

608-5142043. And make sure that you let me know that you were on this podcast and this that's how you heard about me. Good deal, man. Well I appreciate you coming on here. That was uh a lot of good information. And uh I appreciate I appreciate you having me on. It's an honor and privilege. I've been watching you and Grant for a while now. You guys are doing it and doing it and doing it well. And I'll tell you what, guys, if you do not know Tim's story

And the way that he recovered from something that maybe most people would have tapped out on. If you want to hear a story about indomitable spirit, if you want to hear a story about not tapping out. If you want to hear a story about facing things head on and overcoming obstacles, you got to check out Tim. Absolutely, man. I appreciate that. I do have uh do have a podcast I just shot about it. I'm gonna start talking about it more. Um haven't put it out there enough.

So if there's one thing we all have in common, man, and the thing that you did there is to overcome struggle. There's nobody on here, not you and I, not anybody listening, not anybody on the planet. that's not either going through a current struggle that your story can help. Or has gone through a struggle or is going to in the future. One thing we have in common is struggle. So as much as we can lift each other up.

by sharing those struggles, but not just the struggle, but the overcoming and the shine on the other side that Tim's got right now. Shining, shining. I appreciate it, man. Hey, I appreciate you. Good deal, Bobby. So I will talk to you soon. All right, man. Thanks for having me. Not a problem.