Guernsey Funds Forum 2021 Preview - The future of work

Rosie 0:04 Hello and welcome to the latest we We Are Guernsey podcast where we discuss the latest developments within ganseys financial services industry. For those of you who don't know Guernsey is a leading global finance center of substance stability and security committed to the cause of green and sustainable finance. My name is Rosie Allsop, I am communications director here at We Are Guernsey, that's the brand under which Guernsey Finance promotes the island of Guernsey's specialist financial services sector in its respective chosen markets. Today's podcast forms part of a series leading into the Guernsey funds forum 2021 titled 'Building Tomorrow', the forum will explore the question of how to create a better future. The event promises to provide insightful discussion around current trends, including the view of policymakers and experts from across the financial services spectrum. I'm delighted to welcome today's guests, Nick Vermeulen and Leyla Yildirim. Nick is a Partner and Tech and Innovation Leader for the professional service firm PwC Channel Islands. Leyla is Chief Strategy Officer at PwC Channel Islands. Nick and Leyla are here today to discuss their paper, titled 'upskilling the Channel Islands' workforce for digital world'. The topics covered by the paper ties in closely with the theme of 'Building Tomorrow', and includes a view of how Channel Islands might look with the growing use of artificial intelligence and machine learning. As I mentioned briefly already, the podcast is part of a preview for the Funds Forum, which takes place on the 29th of November in London. And you can find out more about that event, including how you can join us through our website weareguernsey.com so without further ado, on to our discussion with Nick and Leyla, Welcome to you both and thank you so much for joining me today. Before we start, I thought it might be helpful for the listeners to find out a little bit more about you both. Can I start with you, Nick. Nick 2:16 Thanks, Rosie. Yes, as you mentioned, I lead on technology and innovation for the PwC firm in the Channel Islands. My background is I did a degree in Computer Science at Manchester University and I worked in that it space before deciding to return home. Home Again, obviously Guernsey and I joined the firm in about '94. So I've been with the with the firm for a number of years, trainers and accountants I'm a mix of it and accounting which is quite unusual. Rosie 2:46 Leyla do you want to give us a bit of your background? Leyla 2:48 Hello, Rosie, great to be here. I spent 20 years of my career driving business change and transformation. And I've written many reports and conducted research on the future of work topics voice, I took on the role as head of strategy for PwC Channel Islands. Rosie 3:05 Thank you both. So let's talk about your paper upskilling the Channel Islands workforce for digital world. Why is PwC interested in this? Maybe we can start off from a global level before talking a little bit more in detail about how it could impact on the Channel Islands. And Leyla, can I start with you, please. Leyla 3:27 So the technology is bringing about the biggest workplace transformation of our age, we're in this fourth industrial revolution. And technology is a major disrupter to our world and to the world of business. There's high potential and opportunity for growth as a result, but there's also risk of societal divide, and for some people to be left behind. So we wanted to look at how automation and artificial intelligence were going to impact Guernsey and Jersey. And one of the main things we found when we conducted our research is that we believe 30% of jobs were at risk between now and 2035 of disappearing as an impact of technology and technology change. What are the other findings is that we think the financial sector services sector is one of those most likely to be at risk to so pretty significant consequences for the islands. But also we think, potential and an upside if we're able to get ahead of this and you know, we could position the islands as a center for technology and innovation if we got our act together. Rosie 4:48 That's really interesting. And thank you that's a really useful scene setter. Now I noticed that the report was published in July 2020. What's changed since then? Leyla 5:01 So we've seen the pace of technology adoption accelerate at super fast speeds as a result of the pandemic, because companies were forced to adopt new ways to work and do business, frankly, in order to survive. So what we saw in that time period was probably five years worth of change happening in a very compressed timeframe of around 12 months. And it's fair to say companies locally have seen huge benefits that digitalization can bring to their business. I think even many were surprised at how quickly the workforce stepped up and adapted. Rosie 5:39 Yeah, I think you're right. That's fascinating, though five years worth of change in 12 months, in what is already a very pacey time for us all. So you mentioned that COVID was an accelerator for firms to review their use of technology. Can you elaborate a little bit more on this? Nick 5:59 Yeah, I think it's really interesting, if you look at how people have had to interact, you know, everyone working from home, they weren't able to go into see anyone in the office, if you just if you just take a look at, you know, onboarding a new client for as a good example, historically, when you did that process, you'd be would have probably done it face to face, you'd have collected some documents, you might have scanned them and put them on a file somewhere, none of that's been possible. So you know, having a remote relationship where you actually engage with a client, over, you know, a video conference, for example, has become the norm. And, you know, so onboarding and your client, you've seen a number of, you know, things come through, you know, just even within my own bank, you know, that the way they're actually now interacting with me and doing dual factor authentication, where they're, you know, making certain I confirm that I've just asked for a payment, and then, you know, they're actually forcing me to go back into their banking app, and actually approve that application has completely changed how people work. And the reason for that is because they wanted to make certain that those payment instructions were coming from the right person, and they were secure. So they looked at new ways of working. And you just say it now, you know, and I use Natwest, for example. But you know, that they are actually now asking me to actually video from my face to actually prove it's me, that wasn't happening five years ago. And they probably weren't even thinking about it before the pandemic, but they definitely thought about afterwards, because they needed a new way of engaging. So these are some of the things you actually just see coming through. And you know, the new way of working, has accelerated that and shrunk the world is my opinion. Rosie 7:34 Yeah, that's really interesting. I mean, what's that expression is about necessity being the mother of invention. Nick 7:41 Yeah. And don't miss it, don't miss a crisis to make changes. Rosie 7:46 So our employees looking beyond remuneration and perks when they're considering employers would you say? Leyla 7:54 Well, the good news is I think workers are very keen and willing to invest time to develop new skills and training and development opportunities are consistently cited by workers as a key attraction in potential employers. So it can be a really good way to attract and keep talent. And you know, young people coming into the world of work, really expect their employer to have the right digital tools, the hardware, the processes to work effectively. I mean, who wants to work for a business that's still largely paper based, that's just not what young people are used to these days. But apart from that, I think the flexibility that technology can bring has been a tremendous upside for employees, who are really enjoying that ability to work remotely, and in a much more flexible way than they have in the past. nine to five in the office is dead, and firms are still expecting their staff to spend all their time in the office are going to need a very compelling reason to mandate that, or they're simply going to find it that their staff decided to vote with their feet. Rosie 9:04 And that's really interesting. Actually, Nick, if I just come back to you for a moment you talked about the need for upskilling. Why do you think it's important for firms to upskill their workforce? Nick 9:16 Just seen as a complete war for talent you know, it doesn't matter what what area you're looking at, you know, technical IT people you know, people who are very good on finance and the business side and there is a war for talent out there, there is a limited talent pool, you know, that the populations that we've got in the islands, you see a shrinking workforce, you know, as you've got an aging population, that gives us a number of challenges. Can you actually take those individuals that you know, are currently outside of work or you know, feel that they don't want to be part of work anymore, they're looking at their retirement can you upskill them, so you actually can bring them through and back into the world of work because you know, some people will feel you know, that technology is passing by. And, and they therefore, you know, can't engage in in the way that they historically might have been able to, and you lose a lot of talent, if you don't engage with that, that pool. Similarly, bringing, as Leyla mentioned, making certain that we actually bring our junior members of staff actually through is really important. And they want to work in a new way. You have to train them in, you know, different things, okay, how to do this, you know, security, how to use technology, cloud security, what should you do? Now, what you can't do with technology, you know, what data should you be able to share. And it's important to, you know, the cost of actually, recruiting someone new into a business is really expensive, not just the recruitment cost, but the training time that you actually spend once you've bought in, so can you can you take someone who's already with you that you know, and trust and, you know, upskill them in such a way that they're actually fit for the future, and don't get left behind by the changes in technology, I think it's, you know, something that, you just, you just have to do, as an employer, make certain your staff are actually, you know, got all the skills that are going to be relevant for the future. And that's part of what they expect as a career now. So it said, if you're not doing it, I think you, you will lose, lose good stuff, I think. Leyla 11:15 what I think, just to add to next point, there is, you know, this is not a problem that we can hire our way out of, because demand for these skills exists everywhere. So you know, in every part of the world, people, businesses are looking for people that are, you know, ready and agile enough to work in this digital world. So, you know, it just makes far more sense to upskill the employees that you already have, who know your business, who know your clients, who know, the way you work, and who, you know, are already familiar with the culture in which you operate, giving them the new skills and capabilities to do their jobs, even better than they're doing today is a no brainer, I think. Rosie 12:00 Yeah, I would agree with that. Sorry, Nick, you're going to jump in? Nick 12:04 Yeah, I think I think, you know, the world, the world has shrunk, you can work on anything, from any location in the world. Now we've proved that by you know, working from home, working remotely. So we need to recognize that we're actually competing on a global scale stage now. You know, and so you know,if you look at the, you know, the capabilities that you've got, like, that gives you an opportunity, if you're willing to go out and operate on a global stage, the fact that you know, AML, really well means that you can actually operate from from the islands, and do, you know, something really, really fantastic in that space. But, but equally, you are competing with other people in in, you know, their locations now, because geographical boundaries are completely meaningless. And, you know, we know that you can achieve a lot by remote working. And in fact, you can actually achieve some things more easily. And, you know, because you can have a disparate team across, you know, multiple time zones, for example, and you can solve a problem that historically might have taken you two days, you might be able to solve it in eight hours, because, you know, you work around the sun, and you solve the current problem more quickly. So, you know, I think what we need to be conscious of is that we are actually, you know, competing on that global stage and network, we are going to be competing with a number of individuals who, who we will never know, and aren't in our geographic region, for for jobs in the future. So it being important and be able to engage in in the way we're talking about using technologies is going to be vital going forward. Rosie 13:35 Right. Now, so far, we've talked around the need for upskilling the workforce, what are the other findings from the paper? Leyla? Would you like to kick off with that one? Leyla 13:47 So one of the things we found Rosie, was Guernsey has quite a high number of non employed women and older people that we could be utilizing. So these are people that for a whole variety of reasons, are not currently in the workforce and had have opted out of work. But, you know, we think this is a wholly untapped talent pool, that with the right upskilling opportunities and incentives, could be persuaded back into the world of work and really add exponential boost to our economy. And, you know, if we compare those numbers across OECD countries, you know, it really is the case that Guernsey has, you know, a bigger proportion of these kind of non employed talents than other places around the world. I just think that's a real, real missed opportunity. So how can we coax those people back into the world of work? Rosie 14:46 That's absolutely fascinating. And that's something that I certainly didn't know about. And so it sounds like there's a need for policymakers to encourage those who currently aren't working to come into the workforce. You know, whether that's for the first time or whether they're rejoining. In terms of Outlook, do you think there's an opportunity for Gandhi to expand its offering through the avenues that you both mentioned previously? Nick 15:12 Yeah, I think there there is, you know, that there's, there's a set already, there's an aging population on the islands. And, I think some of those population could be tempted back into work, but, because, you know, that they, I speak to my own parents who are retired and then the last thing they want to do is not use their brain and, you know, their collective knowledge that so that they continue doing things in their in their own way. But I think you can, you should be encouraging people to actually wanting to continue to contribute to society, and you know, what, one of the ways that that you can get that contribution is by, you know, getting them to coach, younger members of staff with the knowledge they've actually got, but there might be a reticence to actually come back into the world of work, because they feel that they are now behind on, you know, how the the it would work, their mobile phones, how that works. And so if there's a reticence we need to actually take that away, because I think there is a lot of knowledge in, in that area of the of our society that we should be tapping into. And Leyla mentioned it was encouraging people who have, you know, got children to come back into the, to the world of work, again, remote working as made it possible to actually juggle, you know, your work life, and actually get to get the balance that most people are actually looking for. And I think that's fantastic. And I think if we don't make use of that, that resource, we've actually on the island, then will fail to, you know, grow in the ways that we should we should do in the future. So I think there is there is a lot to encourage people to come back. But it's the matter of giving them the confidence that they, you know, their employer will make certain that they're upskilled in such a way that they feel comfortable and confident in using the technology that they will have to when they rejoin the world of work. Rosie 17:13 I think you're right. And I think there's probably people out there who would really like to work but because, you know, this standard nine to five, as you mentioned, doesn't fit in with, you know, dropping the children off at school or picking them up or, you know, those kinds of responsibilities as well, that the two seem you know, that you can't have one without the other. So, I suppose lastly, what are the recommendations from the paper going forward for for Guernsey? Nick? Nick 17:43 I think that, you know, there's, there's lots that we can all we can all do, I think, at the government level, you know, encouraging people to, you know, look at what they're doing within their own businesses and, and assisting, you know, that the skills skills agenda is important. If you talk to the to the states of Guernsey, they're definitely looking at looking at that sector. And we know the deputies that are pushing to bring that thing that all through, I think that that's, that's really important. And I just think it's, you know, collaborating, we've we've got some great educational institutions, across across the islands operating in the GTA college to further education, even the u3a does stuff in the technology space, which is really important to make sure that everyone's able to, you know, come through come through that. And I think that the the role that the lights of the digital greenhouse and this carry the team there have actually done is fantastic. And actually getting everyone to have a location where they can come and talk about these things. Because I think that's really important. There's a number of people that now are using that space as their main work area. And it's, great to see. And I think that encouraging more of more people to engage with with that initiative would be really, really, really interesting because it's by collaborating and actually looking at what other people are doing that you can learn new tricks that you can then deploy yourself. Leyla, if you've got any ideas about what businesses should be doing? Leyla 19:15 Well, I think from a business perspective, you know, every business on the island really should be thinking about how technology can impact and improve their organization and how it may already be impacting their sector, find ways to be more agile, find ways to be more efficient, use technology, artificial intelligence across the business. And our sense is that, you know, in many respects, the financial services sector is a little bit behind in that and there's definitely more to be done. I think once you've done that, you can start to then create a sort of vision of what your business is going to look like in five years time. You know, once it's been really tech enabled, and then from that, it will help Do you really think about well, what's my workforce plan? You know, what do I need in my workforce in order to deliver that model of the future? And what skills am I going to need? In order to do that? Once you've got that clear, you can then look at today's workforce, and what's the gap between the two? So how can I start upskilling, the employees that I've already got to be to be ready for that future that we've talked about. Now, one of the things that we found a really important is that you try and encourage that sort of learning culture within your business, you know, that sort of that that idea of continually learning throughout your career, we think is really fundamental to success. And don't expect your employees to have to fit in, they're learning in their spare time, that you've got to factor that into the working day. And I know, you know, some businesses on the island are doing sort of learning Fridays or, or tech Tuesdays, where they're actually allowing staff to kind of dedicate number of hours every week to their digital upskilling. And that's what we did done in PwC, as well. So those are the things you know, businesses really need to be focused on, they want to stay ahead. Nick 21:15 And I think the, the education level, I think, is really important that there's there's education within within businesses. And that's, that's, that's great for those who are already in work. You know, I think that the, I reflect back on on the, my it career, and how that started. I didn't do computing until I went to university, and I almost study economics and I'm really grateful that I studied computer science. I had a conversation with my parents about what I was doing. And they were like, well, you, you're starting from nothing from going, and you're doing a degree in it. And when we looked at that, and then we basically said to ourselves, well, what why is that 2030 years later that this seems to be almost the same thing. And I was talking to my children about them, the the it, education they were getting, and when we realized that we needed to do something at the grassroots level. So we actually started a program we called Hive Hack. My wife's also a teacher and the reason for that is that, at the primary school level, we recognize that the teachers weren't actually comfortable actually teaching it because they didn't feel they knew enough of it. So what we've actually done with that program is actually build a set of materials that the teachers can, can pick up, assist them in the delivery of those materials, so they become more comfortable actually teaching this to the children. Because I really do think that this, this, this all starts at the foundational level to to enable you to have the workforce of the future that's actually got the relevant knowledge and experience to actually drive drive the island's forwards and actually make certain we're actually using technology in a appropriate way. And so I think there's across government's business and education establishments, there's there's lots we can do later. Do you have anything else? Leyla 23:03 Well, look, Nick, I know you agree that none of us can sit here and predict what technology we're going to be using in 10 years time. But if we foster a culture across the island, I know workforce, and you know, young people who are comfortable with and understand the potential of technology is going to put us in a fantastic place. Rosie 23:26 I think that's absolutely correct. And I'm fascinated to know more about hive hack, is there a website that people can go to? Nick 23:33 Yeah, there's, there's lots of materials that are on our website, if they contact Leyla or myself, we will actually put them in contact with the team. We've actually gone through on the islands we've actually gone through Victor lane, who who runs the the it program for for the educational part. So if there's any parents out there that want to know a bit more about it, so they can encourage their children to actually engage with that, please just point them in our direction. Rosie 24:04 It's a great initiative, and a great conversation as well. But I'm afraid that's all we have time for today. I would like to thank our guests, Nick Vermeulen and Leyla Yildirim for an excellent conversation. Thank you both so much. It's been great to talk about the need for organisations to upskill that task forces to prepare better for tomorrow. I am particularly intrigued around the role that policyholders can play to encourage those who are currently yet to to retrain and rejoin the workforce or policymakers whether or not policy holders so to find out more about Guernsey and its financial services sector, you can visit weareguernsey.com, where you will find everything from the latest news to informative literature, as well as our on demand section where there's an extensive back catalogue of podcasts and interviews. You can also discover why we're a leading center of green and sustainable finance for our sister podcast against the green finance podcast, which was recently rated in the top 10 green podcasts of the world by the green finance guide. You can check out both of those channels by searching for them wherever you get your podcasts. And if you think Guernsey is the jurisdiction for you, you can find Guernsey based fund service providers on the business directory of our website where you can contact a member of our business development team. And we'd love to hear your feedback. You can get in touch with us via Twitter @WEAREGUERNSEY. we've also got the links to Nick and Leyla alongside PwC social media in our show notes, so check those out to hearing from them. That's all for now. We'll be back soon with another edition of the We Are Guernsey podcast. For now. it's goodbye from Guernsey. Transcribed by https://otter.ai