Okay. Happy Tuesday. My name is Laura Barr. I'm the owner and founder of Emerging Educational Consulting. We provide one to one mentorship for students and parents from the beginning to end of the college application process. Our mission is to support families in raising good humans. And I always say, What a better way than to provide information and education to empower and inform. So I am very excited to introduce Leanne Crane.
Leanne, I have been following you through our HECA organization because you are always generous with your information, resources and time. And I think you do have an incredible niche. In our field. And I'm just going to let you introduce yourself and then I have buckets of questions, so we're just going to dive in. Sounds good. Thanks so much, Lori. I appreciate you having me and yes, I love following your podcast.
Um, I think it's so true and I have to say, I think sometimes we kind of forget that along the way as we go through this college search journey. So, I have opened the college dollar, right. Pre COVID. And before that I was working with a college consulting company. And so, I think the easiest way to explain it is I've had three kids in college at the same time. And my husband kept poking me saying, how are we paying for college?
And you know, working in the college consulting world, we'd go through, as you know, the whole process and may 1st, we'd clap and send them off. And then we'd get calls on, well, now what do I do? How do I pay what's going next? And we'd be like. Call a bank. And it just didn't feel like we were kind of completing their whole journey and understanding this college. So I really professionally and personally kind of delved right into what is financial aid really? How do you really pay for college?
And, you know, learned all I could and got certified and reached out to experts. And hopefully now, I'm a little bit of an expert there and just. Really passionate about educating parents on on how to pay for college and with that, you know, financial aid. So really looking forward to answering some of your questions and hoping educating some people along the way. Thank you so much for being here. I empathize.
I have four kids who are all launched and post college and I'm I sometimes just wake up and I'm like, I'm so glad that's over because the anxiety and stress from the time that they are born to the time that you get that first tuition bill, it is always ever present in our culture. And I think we don't have enough access to accurate information, even college consultants, right? So let's dive into how do you even start budgeting for college? Where does a family begin?
So I think the easiest way to explain it is there's only three ways to pay for college. So it's really simple. Have you saved any money? And it doesn't have to be in a 529 money. Many people put it, you know, in its own special savings account, under the pillow, you know, wherever you're saving. So if we have anything saved, second way is if you're going to alter your cash flow in any way, which I think is probably the hardest one for people to kind of wrap their head around.
Like I don't get to go on vacation or I don't get pizza and beer on Friday nights, you know, but, you know, looking at your cash flow and is there any money in there to pay for college? And if those 2 don't add up to the colleges you're looking at, then you have to take on debt. So those are the 3 ways and sitting down and speaking with your child, your spouse, your ex spouse, and figuring out how much money in each bucket can really save a lifetime of angst and stress.
You know, whether it's for one kid or all kids, over the year. So I think it's really important to kind of start your journey there. I often say to my families, and this is just personally, I say, I, my goal is for you to never have to take out debt or to compromise your retirement. And do you follow that? And then do you follow that? Or is there ever a time where taking out a loan is something that's a good idea? so yeah, never touch retirement.
I remember years back, we had someone who drained it to get his son into Princeton and then he ended up dropping out junior year. So that's just an awful story, but things happen. So never touch retirement, but I think loans kind of have a bad rap. There's a lot of, politics surrounding them right now where it shouldn't be. And I definitely think there are. Good cases for loans, especially the student loans, which, you know, I'm happy to go into and parent debt.
I think is a whole different story. I think that's where that. Budget and kind of that whole thought. I find that people take on the debt and the most important thing is they haven't figured out how to repay the debt. Who's repaying the debt? you know, I'll get calls from parents who are like, well, my son's not paying it. It's not his debt. You know, and there wasn't that communication initially on how are we paying for college if we're taking on debt? Whose debt is it?
And how are we repaying that? And if you can answer those questions, and I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing. I think it's kind of very emotional and we get the acceptance and we get the name across our sweatshirt and then parents are like, okay, I guess we're taking on debt. And that's really where I find, you know, what the media kind of harps on is where this student loan crisis is coming into play.
The emotional piece around talking about money is something that I really wanted to take head on in my practice. And when I coach either college consultants or I coach parents, I really just. Want to bring it to the forefront and say, I'm going to be the kind of person who wants to sit with your child and talk about money and I want to talk about money because I don't want your student to get into a school. You can't pay for and have them devastated.
And I also want if they are going to have loans, Then let's make those agreements and let's make sure everybody is really clear and let's write them down. So we're all on the same page. why do you think it's so hard for us to talk about money? Why is it so difficult for parents to talk to? Their kids, about money.
I think probably from what I've seen, it's they're not comfortable with their own decisions, so they kind of feel either bad about discussing it or unsure of what to say that their students or their children don't end up. you know, if they haven't saved, they get kind of resentful in a way like now I have to pay for it. I'm really sorry I didn't save when that, you know, that isn't the case. Life is busy and it's expensive.
And, you know, if you have more than one kid, how, how do you save for two, three, four, you know, 529s kind of thing. But I think, you know, as you, as you so profoundly say all the time that we're trying to grow these good humans and taking on debt isn't always setting them up for success, whether it's the, you know, the parent debt or the student debt. And I think parents really need to look long and hard on.
You know, the goal of college is to set them up, you know, you want them to get a job and get out of your basement. And, you know, if you're expecting them to pay, you know, some debt back again, just those conversations in a little forethought. Really goes a long way. You just said something that I think maybe some of my families might and I relate to is it was hard to be in a, I live in a privileged area and I raised my kids within, we are privileged. Yeah, we were a middle income family.
I'm an entrepreneur and I'm constantly just trying to come up with my clients for the next year. And it was hard because I really did have to say to my kids. Listen, I can cover this much anything else. You're going to have to either get merit or scholarship, but this is what I can cover and it was hard when they were surrounded by other kids and families who were happy to pay everything. So let's get to the heart of it. How do families get money? Yeah. So I wish I had a great answer for you.
I think part of that journey again, one doing the budget and talking with your students, you know, Most of the time I can give you examples by hundreds of stories, and I use my son a lot, but don't tell him. So he was number one in his class. You know, and I told him you do everything right, you get to go where you want to go. That's what we say. That's what we do. Northeastern, of course, was his number one. He got in, he got a great scholarship, and I still couldn't afford it.
I have three in college. His brother was already in college, his sister was right behind him. And I had to break his heart. And he's like, I don't understand why I work so hard. And that broke my heart because he's right. But it wasn't possible for me to pay still 50, 000 a year, for one of my children. So he ended up at his second choice, which he fought the first semester. And you know, gave me heartache still, but it ended up to be absolutely the best decision for him.
He couldn't have got to where he is now without being at that school. And by second year, he's like. I would have transferred out of Northeastern. I know that. So, you know, I do tell a lot of kids and parents if I dropped you at Ohio State and then I dropped you at Purdue and then I put you down in, you know, University of Tampa, are you really going to know where you are?
I mean, You know, obviously there's some major and weather and those things, but, you know, I think it's more important that you understand what you're paying for. And if your students going to be comfortable there and take advantage of what you're paying for, you know, I get a lot of stories from parents are like true stories. I say, I'm going to write a book. You know, I can't bring my gecko. There's not enough trees. There's too many Birkenstocks.
I saw tie dye shirts and parents were like, are you kidding me right now? But it's true. If you don't feel comfortable and not going to come out of your dorm and join those organizations and go meet your professors, what are you paying for? You know, it's really important. We kind of realize that as excited as they are, they're trying to find their next home without you. My son used to say all the time to me, I can't believe you're just going to drop me somewhere.
With people I don't know and have never met and you're okay with this because I'm the classic helicopter mother Yeah, well when you put it that way, maybe you should stay home. He's like no no That's great. So so that let's talk about that money that you got right? So our students work really hard. Let's Let's dive into merit. Mm-hmm. I know, that's what I say to my families a lot is that one of the best ways to get money is to apply to schools that offer merit money.
Yes. And so maybe you can talk about the difference between what is merit, what is scholarship, and you know, this idea of, okay, you go to Ivy League and yes, they cover your expenses, but most of the families who are paying for college consultants aren't. necessarily the people who have, who are going to be qualifying for need at a Ivy league. So maybe you could talk about that.
Yeah. So obviously if we take the Ivies out, cause there is no merit, you know, that's all need based, but other colleges, I think people kind of don't realize there's some colleges kind of merit friendly or merit generous that we call versus those that are not. So a good example I use all the time is we take university of Michigan, Ohio state and Penn state. Pretty comparable colleges, very large, you know, hundreds of majors and, and, organizations, D one athlete, all that.
but two don't give any merit and one does. So, you know, would you apply to all three or are you just applying to one that doesn't give merit because maybe your family cheers for them or you have a legacy? So I think there's. options for people who are looking for a certain kind of school to kind of broaden their horizons and add other colleges in there. you know, expanding your, you know, every pretty much every student does that for maybe 6 hour radius around hometown.
And the farther you go away, the more money you have to get those colleges again are trying to get, you know, one student from every high school. And are you that high school this year? You know, you could be looking at different majors. You know, a lot of female chem students get more money than female biology majors.
so there's just different little tactics when you're doing this search that, you know, you should look into versus just trying to go through U. S. News world reports top 20, which, you know, I just had a client yesterday. He had 3 of the U. S. News top 20 and I really didn't think a student was going to get in there. And he asked me for other financially fit schools. None of those are going to give him any aid.
And, you know, if your budget budget's 30, and you're applying to 70, 000 dollar schools. I mean, we can cross our fingers, but in reality, you're not getting a 40, 000 scholarship. It's just not going to happen. So there are different ways where you're doing your search, you know, to understand financial aid and the transparency of the schools and what is going to be reasonable, um, for a merit scholarship. And to me, the best way to do it is just go to the website.
Like I put in Google search, I'm like merit money for university of Michigan. And then you get to see that merit money for college of Wooster and you're like, wow, that's actually where my daughter went to school. and a big reason was because of the generous, you know, merit money that they offer. As a result, um, understanding money for majors, is there a place that you can dig into that? I haven't found that. Is that I haven't found one place.
I think it really depends on the college and having the students kind of get to know their admissions counselor, which I think is a good resource. A lot of them maybe don't use.
I think the other piece too is understanding, You know, the colleges are a business and I think this is the hardest part is, you know, if they're looking for left handed cello soccer players this year and you're not, you know, it doesn't mean there aren't other schools who are looking for that and you know, kind of spreading a wider net over colleges.
Maybe you haven't heard, you know, there's 3, 000 colleges out there and, you know, I think your student will do well at probably 10 of them and, get a broader range in there. Those that are merit friendly, those kinds of things. What's your opinion about, scholarships? Like I, and I say that separate from merit money, talk to me about your opinion on scholarships. Yes. I actually have a meeting tonight to speak with a parent who put in The chat information for my services.
It says I need to learn about scholarships. I can't pay for school. I'm like, Oh, we have an eye opening conversation tonight. Yeah. So scholarships outside scholarships. There's a couple things I usually say. You know, if you're a junior and you have time and want to start looking and make an Excel spreadsheet, you know, go ahead. But senior year, really, you should be focusing on getting, all your applications top notch, your essay, you know, your FAFSA, CSA, and all of that in.
And then when you have time, start doing those outside scholarships. Obviously, be careful of the sites. Make sure you feel they're legit. You're putting a lot of personal information in there. And there's a couple sites that you can pay for, I think, are relatively inexpensive. if that's really important to you. But the statistic is outside scholarships account for maybe three to five percent of tuition.
And if that kind of puts you into that next level of colleges and you want to do that, absolutely. And if you have time, absolutely. The problem is most of them are one year only, And a lot of them go directly to the school and can displace some of your financial aid. So I fought many cases for that. So that can be difficult, but it should be right at the college's website. You know, if that's the case. and I did want to say quick, one thing that came to mind about merit scholarships.
I have seen a lot of families miss out on, um, scholarships that are automatic from the college because of due dates. So maybe all those automatic scholarships are early action and they've done regular decision. And now they've lost out on 10, 12, 15, 000, just from not reading that scholarship website. From their colleges. So, it's really sad. Why is there not the scholarship on here?
Because I know the school gives them and I took a bit of research and then I realized they did regular decision instead of early action and They could have just applied earlier and gotten that I was just looking at University of Miami, um, does a great job of transparency around that, which I find really helpful. Some websites aren't as transparent in general.
We lean towards our students getting early action as much as all across the board, just for that reason, because it's sometimes just not as clear. Okay, let's talk about FASFA, FASFA and CSS. CSS. What's different about this year? I already I'm looking at it's October 3rd and I know the big date has passed it. So talk to us about that. No date has passed for anybody who's panicking, but in the past, October 1st was the big day that the fast food was released.
Tell us why it changed and tell us families can expect if they haven't ever yet opened that FAFSA. Yes. So the FAFSA will be opening in December sometime. And the reason for the delay this year is, there was a whole redoing of the FAFSA formula. So, the Coding in the software would not be done in time. and it's odd because just about six years ago, I think, was it that the FAFSA didn't open this early and when they made it October, we all were like, are you crazy? It's open that early.
so now we're kind of going back. So it's fine. The CSS is open. I called the CSS just the FAFSA on steroids. You know, it's a financially invasive form. I'm going to ask you pretty much, you know, your house and the cars you drive and retirements and all those fun things. And it's a way for, you know, higher level colleges to really get a full financial picture. on how much they should give you in aid.
And I have seen in some instances where actually the CSS profile was more financial aid friendly than the FAFSA. So it's not always bad. But again, because you're giving so much of your financial information, there are some cases where it might not make sense to complete that, but that's usually very high net worth. people. Because everybody else kind of wants the free money. the FAFSA this year, we're all dying to know what it's going to look like. it's much, less questions.
So from over 100 down to about 40, I believe, we have seen I have seen the calculator and used it, but it's not exactly what the FAFSA form looks like. So, we are waiting to see what that looks like. And if you're new to the FAFSA, it should be fairly easy. You won't notice anything different. And you'll be like, why was everybody complaining all these years? Because it's just a few questions, hopefully easier questions, though. Some of them kind of leave gray areas.
Like business valuation and farm valuation are now things in there. So we'll see how those play out, but, you know, don't panic when it comes out. I would say, give it at least a week or two, unless you have a really hot deadline, let all the bugs work out with everybody else, then do your FAFSA. From what I'm seeing. with the colleges who have updated their website. Most are not due until mid January, is the earliest, though you can get it in earlier. CSS is open.
Again, you know, you can start it, go through if you have questions, you know, reach out to me, but make sure your applications are in and all that is set. There's no sense submitting a CSS prior to an application. There's, they don't connect in the cloud anywhere. I'm going to say that back just to make, just to make sure. So fill out your application, send it, and then obviously send the CSS after that. You could probably be working on it before that.
And mostly what I tell my families right now is just get your documents in order. That's something that you can be doing now. And if they're not in order, get them in order. So there's no surprises or delays because that's another way that I saw money. Missed families who I didn't say things like, make sure that your financial things are in order. And then they're like, Oh my gosh, I'm two months behind. And then they missed out on money.
So people who don't have their taxes done for 2022, you know, and once you submit the CSS, you need. Your students should get emails back, but you know, most colleges are going to request additional information through IDOC, um, IDOC, if you haven't heard of that, but you will, your student will be getting emails and saying, you know, we need this text transcript. We need the copy of the tax return. We need, you know, this information.
So you want to make sure that you are submitting it enough and you don't miss those deadlines. because you have to add supplemental information. Can you answer this question? I'm getting a lot of this right now. You know, with the divorce rates in our country, that there are often, there's often a lot of stress and tension around who's going to fill it out. And I know that that changed. Who should fill it out? And I'm just curious if you can bring that to life for us.
So, what is the criteria for who fills it out and what money is considered? So right now, for anyone filling out the FAFSA, new or again, it's going to be the parent who, offers the most financial support to the student. So this is one of those kind of gray areas that we're all waiting to see how the FSA deals with because In most people's mind, you would assume it's going to be the person they live with.
So it's hard to believe that the parent that is driving the kids to school with a car and gas and living under the roof with heat and electric and feeding them, you know, adding all that up. Is going to be a lot less than someone who's just, you know, sending a check, each month. So we're not entirely sure how that's going to play out. But for right now, you know, unless child support is extremely high, it would be most likely person that the student is living with.
seems to make kind of common sense who would be offering the most financial support. Okay, great. It does seem like, you know, there's going to be some gray areas around that and we'll have to manage it when we get to see exactly when we see exactly what the question looks like and how what the answers available are, we will be able to answer that a little better. I feel like we could talk to you for an hour and I honor my, I honor my 30 minutes, but now I wish I didn't.
I wish I could have like a two hour podcast with you, but maybe we can do it again. But let's talk about tuition bill review, because that is what you're kind of, you're always out there talking about. And I'd love to hear more about that. Sure. So again, kind of when, after that May 1st and parents went away and then they'd start calling and, you know, say asking questions like, why is this on my tuition bill or what does this mean? And, um, again, my kids were going to college.
I had to figure this all out. So I think it's a really great thing, especially for first time, sending your kid off to school, just to understand what for four years is very expensive service you're buying, you know, and understanding what you're paying for. So from optional costs. to fees. We have a school in New York that has over 20 different fees, some of them optional. And I can tell you, if you haven't talked to me, you've probably paid that optional fee for four years.
you know, going over the FERPA, health waivers, entrance counseling, you know, everything kind of that you need to know to set yourself up with all these terms and different ways to work through the portal with your student. You know, I always say one year, I think it was my son's sophomore year. I had to call a college cause my spreadsheet was 5 off from their tuition bill and I did not hang up till we resolved that 5. That's amazing. I'm not giving you a dime more than you.
That is, that's amazing. So that. That seems right. You know, that brings me to another. I was actually on a call with Lee Moore last week and she does all the data and she was showing me on her data sets about money like merit and kind of I'm not exactly sure because I was it was new to me. But this idea that you could be get you could get money your first year. And then if you look at data of like how that merit money can go down over those Four years.
And that actually surprised me 'cause that did not happen to me at Worcester or Chapman. And that's where my two kids went. Mm-hmm. my other went to CU Boulder, so we didn't have to manage the merit there. Yeah, yeah. But tell me about that and what should families look for?
Yeah, that's, you know, one of the things doing the tuition bill review too that I always check is because, there are colleges that front load either two things front load the freshman merit scholarship, you know, is that enticement to pick us or it's only a one year scholarship and doesn't go on for the four years. So again, that's something we need to check. And, you know, what is the GPA attached to that?
And, you know, making the student aware it's not to make them nervous or stress, you know, If it's a GPA and they're failing one class and you're going to lose 12, 000, should we consider dropping the class? You know, we, there's things to think about and just to keep in your mind. So yeah, those merit scholarships definitely need to, in writing. what are they for? How long do they last when kids are doing the, plus program?
So they're doing the P. A. P. T. all those, you know, it changes those scholarships change when you change from undergrad to grad student. So, there's a lot of things to think about as you're paying for college over these 4 years. Can you just in our last few minutes? Can you summarize what financial fit means? So, you know, I believe probably most people are kind of aware of the target reach and safety schools and those are based on the students criteria.
But those also really should play into how the parents going to pay for scholarly college. So, you know, usually in state colleges are kind of your safety schools that you can afford. We all know what the tuition is. Tuitions and state schools is under 10, 000. It's kind of room of board that pushes you over there. And then, you know, the reach schools again, depending on your financial aid and what your adjusted gross income is, you know, can you apply to 60, 70, 000 schools?
So I think it's really important. And what I do is look, you know, look at a list that you've generated for your students. Go through the student aid index with the parents and kind of give them an idea like the family. I just worked at they had for us news top 10 and you're not getting any money from Boston College does not give money. Um, you know, so are you prepared to pay that 70, 000 tuition bill?
And if not, then let's find some colleges that we know are a little more generous, generous for you. And. Yeah, then it kind of comes down to that conversation with the parents. Here's what we're willing to pay. Here's where the financial aid packages came in. what is your opinion about all the data coming out lately on return ROI, return on investment? Do you have any opinions about that? Very important. I think a lot, you know, I. If kids are going to grad school, go to your state school.
Absolutely. You know, my son his sites were on med school, he wanted to go to Northeastern and he was accepted to our local school in New York, Binghamton, which is a highly ranked, state university. And he's like, I cannot go to Binghamton because I can't go to med school. Is Columbia or NYU going to take me from. SUNY Binghamton. So I had to call multiple colleges and med schools and ask them. And overwhelmingly, yes, it's not dependent on the name of the school.
Now, if everything being equal, someone's coming out of Harvard and he's coming out of Binghamton and everything else is equal. You know, maybe they'd probably take the Harvard kid, but you know, there's so many other things that are important. So if you're going to grad school, you really, you know, if, if finances are an issue, you really got to consider, you know, nobody, they always say the doctors don't have their undergrad hanging on their wall.
So, um, you know, and PA, PT, all those programs, pharmacy, really popular. Now, again, your six year programs with grad school, you know, understand who's paying for what, um, you know, there's a point where the student starts paying in the. The parents don't, and they always say, don't take on more debt than your first year salary. So if you're coming out as an accounting, a nurse, an engineer making 60, 000, then that should be the max you borrow over those four years. Wow, that's great.
That's a great tip. That's really great. Well, I cannot thank you enough. I know this is the beginning. I'm hoping we can actually just schedule something in literally in December. I would love to do that so that we can answer some of these pending questions that we see come out. Thank you for your service and thank you for your innovation around creating a business that really serves both consultants and families. Thank you, Laura, for sharing them.
And thank you for helping us make great humans. I, it's my favorite thing in the world. Thank you so much. Take care. Bye.