Terry Tucker: Speak Less, Impact More

Welcome back to Grow Your Impact, Income and Influence, the number one show for entrepreneurs wanting to reach their goals.

Today's show, man, today we've got somebody who played basketball against Michael Jordan, also worked as a SWAT negotiator in Cincinnati. Bet you had plenty of calls to be a negotiator in Cincinnati. But his real passion in life is how to help you get the outcomes that you are after. Terry Tucker, how are you doing today? I'm great, Steve. Thanks for having me on. I'm really looking forward to talking with you.

It's going to be a great show. We did a little bit of a pre-show and we got to unpack a lot. So first off, playing basketball against Michael Jordan, what was that like? Well, you know, it was my senior year in college. It was his freshman year in college. So he wasn't the Michael Jordan that we know today. We were playing North Carolina, who we played for, in the Charlotte Coliseum.

And it's great because on Saturday night, or excuse me, on Friday night, I get to play against Jordan and North Carolina, who go on to win the national championship. And then on Saturday night, I get to play against Jim Valvano and the North Carolina state team, who the following year, 1983, I'm really dating myself. They go on to win the national championship. So without really knowing it, in the course of one weekend, got to play against

two national championship teams. It was an absolute blast.

That's awesome. So we're going to unpack some of the negotiation tactics that you use as the SWAT negotiator as well. But where did this start? Because right now you work, I mean, motivation, saying you're a motivational speaker or motivational coach, that doesn't really do what you do justice, but how did you get here? How did you get to be the person that helps people really unpack the things that are in their way and then help them reach their goals?

Yeah. So, I mean, I certainly, I've got to go back to my mom and dad. You know, I've got two brothers. We were all college athletes. I have one brother who was drafted by the Cleveland Cavaliers, the National Basketball Association. And it was really my parents that taught us the importance of family, of loving each other, caring for each other, of supporting each other. And then you fast forward to my time in law enforcement and being a SWAT negotiator.

And then for like almost the last 13 years now, I have been battling terminal cancer. I was told in 2012 that I would more than likely be dead in two years. And I thought, well, you gave me a death sentence. How can I take that death sentence and turn it in to a life sentence? So my purpose has changed throughout my life. My purpose when I was young was to be an athlete. Then I felt it was to be in law enforcement.

And now, in all honesty, as I'm probably coming towards the end of my life, I think it's shifted again, put as much goodness, positivity, motivation, love back into the world with all the things I've learned over my life with whatever time I have left. So that's how I've gotten to this point. I mean, that is an awesome mission statement and your attitude is amazing. Let's talk about, so terminal cancer in 2012, and here we are in 2025.

How has that journey been? Hell, to be honest with you, I mean, there was no treatment. That was why they told me I'd be dead in two years. They put me on a drug called interferon, which gave me terrible flu-like symptoms every week. I took a weekly injection, and I took those weekly injections for five years. So imagine having a terrible case of the flu every week for five years.

And as my doctor said, Terry, this isn't a cure. We're just trying to kick the can down the road and buy you some more time. Eventually, the interferon became so toxic to my body that I ended up in the intensive care unit with a body temperature of 108 degrees, which is usually not compatible with being alive. Had to stop the interferon. Cancer came back. 2018, had my left foot amputated, up my leg two more times, two more surgeries

in 2019. And then in 2020, my entire lower leg became filled with cancer. And in the middle of the COVID pandemic, I had my left leg amputated above the knee and found out I had tumors in my lungs, which I am still being treated for every three weeks at the hospital. So it's been a 13-year journey that is never really, you know, it's not like, well, this five-year period, I was in remission. I've never been in remission. It's just been one thing after another.

And I'll tell you this, Steve, if people don't remember anything else. Remember this, you need to find meaning in your misery. Whatever that is in your life, and we're all going to have difficult times, find meaning in it. There's a reason you're going through it, and there's absolutely something you can learn from it. The, that is such a difficult story to hear. And you are so positive and cheerful and leaning in out of that.

What is the meaning to you? Cause I know we talked about, you know, I want to, I want to leave something positive in the world, but how do you actually articulate that? Because it doesn't just saying, I want to leave something positive in the world does not lead to the kind of positive attitude that you have right now. Yeah. I mean, when I got cancer, people were like, well, oh, you got cancer. Who do you blame? I'm like, what do you mean? Who do I blame?

Like, well, you know, we're great, especially in the West. You know, you start a business or something happens and you move down that road and then you butt up against an impediment. Something gets in your way and you can't get over it, around it, or through it. So you quit. But we just don't quit. Now we got to blame somebody. You know, we got to blame our parents or our boss or our station in life. So when I got cancer, people, who do you blame?

Steve, I have an incredibly rare form of melanoma that has nothing to do with sun exposure. It appeared on the bottom of my foot. I've also had all ADA genes that doctors know of or suspect cause every form of cancer that we know tested. And I have absolutely no mutations in any of those genes, which certainly begs the question, why did I get this incredibly rare disease? Nobody's been able to answer that question. And I don't spend a lot of time worrying about it. there's a reason I'm here.

And you know, when I, it's kind of funny when, when I had these tumors in my lungs and my leg amputated, my doctor showed me my CAT scan and Steve, I don't know how to read a CAT scan. I didn't go to medical school, but you could kind of look at it and be like, oh, well, that sure didn't look like it belongs there. You know, I had these big tumors in my lungs. I had fluid all around the pleural spaces on the outside of my lungs without being gross. I was coughing up green, bloody phlegm.

And I remember looking at my doctor and saying, how was I alive? And Steve, till the day I die, I'll never forget this. He put his head down, he shook his head no, and then he looked up at me and he said, I don't know, because you shouldn't have been. Which said to me, and I have a very strong faith, and that's one of the things I talk about my three Fs, faith family and friends that have gotten me through this, God's not done with me yet.

You know, I look at my life now as God using my infirmity, my malignancy to show people his goodness, his positivity, his love, his motivation, his healing. That's what I'm here for. Whenever he wants me, he can add me.

I mean, that is an awesome attitude. I know so many people who say that, but have a hard time living it. Not, I mean, nobody is perfect. I don't think God is faulting them for it, but you've obviously put a lot of thought and energy into it. And your, your actions are congruent with your message and with, and that's why you are cheerful. That's why you're showing up in, in the way that you are.

Let's talk a little bit. So there's, it's a little bit different than just motivation, but there's usually three things that can change the way we look at something, right? The first one is, are we looking at what we have or what we don't have? And what I hear you saying is in that question with the doctor, you were saying, I'm, what do I have?

I have my life, not, I have something on the bottom of my foot, not, I have these huge things in my lungs, not all the things that you could be upset, pissed off victim about. So the first thing is, do we pay attention to what we have or what we don't have? And the second thing is, do we show gratitude for what we have? And you obviously do Every day, I bet you get up and you are grateful to be there. I am. And you're right. It's, you know, which handle do you want to grab?

Do I have to or do I get to? You know, do I have to get up this morning and go to work or do I get to go, you know, get up this morning and go to work? And I'll be honest with you. I mean, you're looking at me right now. There's no S on my chest. I do not have a cape and fly around with magical powers. When I'm treated for my cancer, I absolutely get down. I cry. I feel sorry for myself. I feel like crap. But I find when I'm in that state, what I'm doing is looking internally.

Woe is me. Look how terrible things are. Look how bad I feel. And I find a real easy way to get out of that. And we all get into that situation. You know, we're human beings. A real easy way to get out of that is to just go away.

Say hi to somebody there's a there i love this story there's a professor of psychology at the university of chicago who does this experiment with his students the idea is you get out you get on a bus and in three questions you get deep with somebody so you sit down next to somebody hey how you doing i'm fine how are you question one question two and i'm just making this up what do you do for a living oh i'm a doctor oh okay question three have you always wanted to be a doctor.

No, I grew up on a farm. I wanted to be a veterinarian, but X, Y, and Z happened. Or yeah, my mom was a doctor. She died at 40 of breast cancer. I'm on her memory by being a doctor. Whatever the person says, you're now deep with them. And we don't go deep with people anymore. Social media allows us to stay on the surface. Everything's great. Look at me. Everything's fine. Things are not always fine with me. But I love those interactions with people, those connections with people.

A hundred years from now, nobody's going to remember I was here. But what I hope people remember is the relationships, the connections that I had with them while I'm here. So, you know, sitting in the waiting room, waiting to go to treatment, you can always find that person that's, you know, looks like a deer in headlights. It's their first time there. They're scared to death. They don't know how this is going to go. Is the treatment going to help them?

And just, I mean, I was going to say walk over, but I'm in a wheelchair. So I just wheel over and just spay like, hey, how you doing? And it's just having somebody say, this person sees me. I'm not just blending into the wall. I'm not just another patient. I'm a human being. Hey, how's it going? And usually if I get into a conversation and a nurse calls me, it's time to go back for your treatment. I'll be like, you know what? These are great people. I've been coming here for four years.

You are going to have a tremendous experience. It's putting that positivity on it, Not, oh, this is going to suck. It's going to hurt. I'm going to feel bad.

No, this is going to be a great experience because I get to have this treatment. Well, that's, man, there's a lot of wisdom in what you just said. I think the first thing is anytime you connect with somebody, actually really seeing them for who they are, we all want to be seen.

We all want to be heard. and in today's world we're moving so fast on purpose right we we choose to load our lives with 9 000 things 15 different social media apps nine meetings how do you how do you really see people like the three questions to go deep but i think i want to unpack i want to pull on that thread a little bit harder. How do you, how do you actually get people to one to see them? And how do they then react to you? Cause I want people to take this away.

Like if you connect with one real person a day in a meaningful way, it will change your life. It absolutely will. And you and I were talking before we jumped on this call about, you and I have the same philosophy. We can learn from anybody. I can learn from the homeless person out on the street. I can learn from the guy in the penthouse. I can learn from any human being. So how do you connect with that? And I'll tell you a funny story.

I used to do this all the time. My wife is in the financial services industry. And every year they have the obligatory Christmas party at the end of the year. And I used to do this. I said, all right, I'm going to go into this party and I'm going to find five of your colleagues. And at the end of the night, I'm going to come out and I'm going to tell you, you know, where they went to school, how they met their spouse, where their kids go to school.

I'm going to tell you how they got into this and everything about, but not only that, Monday, when you go back to work, they're going to come to you and they're going to tell you what a great guy I am, but they're not going to know a thing about me because people are narcissistic. they love talking about themselves. So if you just, we used to tell that to our daughter all the time. You want to be a great conversationalist? Just ask people about themselves.

And that's kind of a phony way to do it. I don't recommend doing that. You're talking about how do you go deep with somebody? You find out what means something in their life, and then you ask them how or what that got to be meaningful for them. And people will just open up and tell you, I mean, that's how you and I learn. That's how we learn about other human beings. I mean, the books that I read are usually biographies because I want to know what makes people tick.

Why did you make that decision at that point in your life under that strut, whatever it was, because I can learn something from that. Yeah, absolutely. The, the ability to empathize and to. To go deep with somebody and put yourself in somebody else's shoes is becoming rarer and rarer, but it's something that I feel the world definitely needs.

Let's talk a little bit about motivation and getting results. Cause so you were, you were a college athlete, then you worked for the police department. How do you, how do those, what's the common thread that goes between those when it comes to getting results? I mean, for me, the common thread, and again, I'll go back to even before I was a college athlete, was what our parents taught us. And they didn't teach us by saying, you should be of service, but they modeled it. And we saw it.

And, you know, Steve, I've seen so many people, and you probably have two in your life, that think they're born empty. And that when they get out of school and get into life, whatever that looks like for them, that then their job is to fill up their empty cell. I got to make the most money, got to live in the nicest house, drive the nicest car, have all the latest gadgets and gizmos. And what I found is we're not born empty.

We're born full with everything we need to be successful, however you define that word, already inside us. We just need to find it, pull it out, and use it to our advantage. So our job in life should not be to fill ourselves up because we'll never be filled.

There'll always be one more thing that we're Jason, our job in life should be to empty ourselves out with our unique gifts and talents, certainly for the betterment of ourselves, but also for the betterment of our families, of our friends, and of our communities.

And when you make that paradigm shift in your mind that it's not about what I can get, it's about what I can give, it's amazing how your life just turns on a dime. We let's unpack that a little bit further. Let's get some tactical examples of that. Cause I think people, there's two things going on that I hear in that. The first one is in order to empty yourself out, people have to feel like they have something of value.

And without going too far down a social media rabbit hole, I think so many people today feel like they don't have any value. They don't feel, they feel like they're less than right. It's easy to go on Instagram or any social media and look at and say, I'm not good enough. That person is crushing it. I'm not that person is doing X, Y, Z amazing. Even your friends, you look at them because it's the highlight reel of everyone's life, which we all know isn't real.

Like if you ask somebody, if you think that it's real, they'll tell you, well, no, it's probably not, but emotionally we feel like it is. So it leads to people feeling like they constantly have to get, there's a lot of grasping energy going on? How do you start to switch that number one? And how do you pour out the second half of the question? And I can come back and restate these. A lot of people think- Don't give me two questions at once. No, go ahead.

I think a lot of people have a hard time trading what they do for value, whether that's money or time. Because people love going to a business, doing their thing, getting a paycheck. But they have a hard time actually trading what they do for money. I'm not saying that question very clearly. They have a hard time accepting money for their gift. Yeah. So first question, I'm going to tell you two stories, both true stories. I was doing a podcast with a former NFL player.

This guy's like six foot six, 310 pounds. He started a podcast. His brother is in the professional football hall of Fame, he played for like the Titans, the Rams, and several other people. We did the podcast. And then afterwards, we were just talking afterwards, and he said, you know, Terry, when I started my podcast, I didn't think anybody would pay attention to anything I had to say.

I said, Marcus, how could you feel that way? You've made it to the pinnacle of your sport, of what you did for a living. Your brother's in the Hall of Fame. I mean, my God, people should hang on your every word. And that told me right then and there that even somebody that you and I would look at and say, man, I mean, that guy's great. Still has that doubt in them. Does my story matter? Does anybody care? So the second story, much more important, but I think will bring it home.

So I would get treated every three weeks at the hospital. And initially there was a nurse there. She was about 25 years old, already a nurse, but learning how to do things on the unit. And about three months later, she was taking care of me by herself. And she came in and she said, Terry, I've got a story I want to tell you, but I don't know if I can tell it to you.

And Steve, how do you respond to something like that? You know, it's like, I said to her, well, it sounds like I might enjoy hearing the story. I hope you decide you want to tell me. So she's in and out over the next couple hours, finally comes in, sits down. She's like, all right, here's the story. She said, when I first met you, I was going to get out of nursing. I'd had a very good friend of mine die. I was in a really dark place. I was going to quit nursing. I'd already talked to my family.

We're going to quit nursing and go to work for Amazon. And she said, and then I met you. And I watch what you, I have a terrible reaction to the medicine that I have. And I won't go into that, but it's not good. She says, I see what you go through. And I went back in your chart and I read everything that had happened to you over, you know, whatever it was, eight, 10 years when she was taking care of me. And she said, when I finished reading your story, I knew I was where I was supposed to be.

Now, if she would have never told me that story, I would have had no idea that my life, just living my ordinary life, had had such an impact on this young woman. People out there think they don't have a story. But you and I, we've just said that. I can learn from anybody. So anybody who's listening to us, don't ever think that your life doesn't matter. There's something in your life, something you've done, something you're thinking,

whatever it is that other people can benefit from. So don't shut yourself off. Get out there and try to make that happen because that will fulfill you. That's what your purpose is in life. We all have a purpose. If you don't believe me, believe Viktor Frankl, who wrote Man's Search for Meaning, who said, don't look at your life in the abstract. Everybody's here for a reason. Find that reason and live it.

And on that note, if you are looking to hold a live event or fill a live event or sell from stage, I would encourage you to click the link in the description down below. It's going to take you to all of our free resources, whether that is fill your event fast, maximum conversion from the stage, or if you'd like to jump on a call with me, there's a way that you can book a call, jump on my calendar, and I'll be happy to walk you through anything I can to

help you with a live event. All right, let's jump back into the show. I was going to bring that book up in relation to your story, but anyone listening to this that's like, well, I'm not a nurse or I don't have a terminal illness, I'm not going to touch anyone that way. The way that we treat people in our daily life and the way that we treat.

If you make somebody feel seen and heard, it's crazy to me the amount of money that people spend on clothing or jewelry or cars, anything like that, to get somebody to say that person has value when if you just look at somebody and actually listen, active listening is, I mean, I'm as guilty of it as anyone, right? You listen, thinking about what you're going to say next. Instead of listening and empathizing first and saying, like, how must that have felt for somebody?

How are they feeling right now? And making them feel seen and heard. That's that moment of doing that. And if you do that once a day, once a week, that you will start to see people in your life that you, you are touching their life. I would definitely recommend man's search for meaning. If I want, I was going to bring that up and ask you how, how have you applied the thoughts from that into your life, but you live it pretty naturally, right?

I, for somebody who hasn't read the book, can we explain that book a little bit? Yeah. So Viktor Frankl was a psychiatrist who was in the Auschwitz concentration can, survived that experience. But because he was a psychologist, got into people's heads about that. You know, and he was talking about, I remember there's a story and I'm going to mess up the story a little bit, but he was talking with a girl that was dying, you know, would be dead within the next couple of days.

And they were talking about life and the meaning of life.

And she was laying somewhere where she could look out a window and just see the branch of some tree and it was in the spring and the tree was flowering and she you know she's he's talking to her about well what is that what does that tree mean that that tree means life well and the tree talks to me and he was like well is she delusional you know at the end of her life or whatever and he's like what does it say and it says i am life and i am here and you know something as simple as,

and then die, you know, then die a couple of days later. So, I mean, that's, that's pretty deep. When you can just look at a branch and say, okay, I know I'm going to die, but that's life. That's life right there. Seeing that tree, seeing that blossom, you know, it's seeing people for what they are. And you used to use this word twice, and I think it's incredibly important. You've talked about empathy.

And one of the things we did as hostage negotiators, a lot of times we would arrive on scene, have no idea why we were there. What caused this person to barricade themselves and things like that. And we would use what was called tactical empathy. I think you can get rid of the word tactical and just talk about empathy. And that is help me understand where you're coming from. And the important word there is understand.

If I was negotiating with a guy who just murdered three people, I wasn't gonna be like, oh yeah, I totally agree that what you did was right. No, but understanding leads to trust and trust leads me as a negotiator to a point where I can get you out. and think about any good relationship you have in your life. What is it built? It's built on trust. Empathy. I think the difference between empathy and sympathy is worth talking about.

Sympathy is different. The way that I heard this described by Zig Ziglar is empathy and sympathy.

Sympathy is I will look down that you're in a hole in the ground I'll look down at you empathy is I'm willing to crawl down there and understand and feel that with you it might not and to your point about judgment you might have to suspend judgment we're not going to say that what you're doing is right or wrong but if I can at least allow myself to understand a little bit and honestly like you look at sadly I feel

like social media the point of this podcast wasn't to bash social media by any means, but social media leads people to quick, fast reactions that are polarizing. Right. And our brain does this naturally because we want to protect ourselves, protect our time. Are they like me? Are they not like me? But it stops empathy. So many people on the internet will throw somebody, you know, like be mean to somebody. I don't agree with you. You're wrong.

Instead of just asking questions and being unified, right? The, one of the discussions I had with my ex-girlfriend now around the election was, I don't, I don't care what somebody's political belief is. That's not, I'm not going to like them or dislike them because of that. And we have this world now that was super divided and it's like empathy. Why, why do you care about the matter that we're talking about? And if I actually have empathy and lean into that, it's a hard conversation.

And I don't think people like doing hard things anymore. They want the fast and easy answer and they want a righteousness. I'm right. You're wrong. And I think that that in the end of the day kind of tears us all apart.

How do we, I'm saying this whole long soapbox speech to get to how do, what are some tools that they gave you as a hostage negotiator to help build empathy? Cause that's a difficult situation. I mean, anyone listening to this, imagine being called to the scene, somebody just killed three or four people and they've barricaded themselves in their house. And your job is to build a relationship with them, build some trust. How do you do that? I mean, you first of all start out as human beings.

So I'm not going to start out and say, if I'm negotiating with you, it's like, hi, I'm Sergeant Tucker. What's your name? I'm going to say, hey, I'm Terry. What's your name? And a lot of times you'd be like, you don't need to know any. Okay, no problem. What do you want me to call you? And so that was a start. And then it was, hey, you know, I'm kind of in the blind here right now. What is going on? Can you help me to understand what's going on?

And again, Steve, I'll tell you that there were times like we would be over here talking about something with somebody that was barricaded for hours when the real issue was over here. But we hadn't built up enough rust at that point in time for the person to feel comfortable talking about us. The other thing we would we would try to do. Couple of things. We would stay away from why questions. Well, Steve, why did you wear that hat today?

Oh, wait a minute. Does Terry not like my hat? I mean, those sound accusatory. We would use how and what questions. Hey, Steve, what made you decide to wear that hat today? That's a little bit softer of a question that gets me the same answer. So how and what questions were important. And the other thing, and the reason hostage negotiation was so exhausting is you had to go where they were.

So if somebody was yelling and screaming and ranting and raving about their mother and you said something like, oh, you seem like you're a little upset with your mother, you've totally missed it. You need to go, man, you're pissed as hell at your mother, aren't you? Yeah, I am. That again creates that Terry gets me. He sees me. And let me say one more thing. And this is important because a lot of times we were dealing with people that literally were on the edge.

You know, they could have killed themselves or whatever. And I've been on podcasts where people have talked about suicide. But they're like, well, yeah, I saw the person giving away stuff and talking about death and doing all kinds of the indicators, but I didn't want to say anything. And we were always taught, if we thought somebody was going to kill themselves or hurt themselves, we would call it out right away. It's like, hey, Steve, are you thinking of killing yourself?

Are you thinking of harming yourself? Because if you're not, they're just going to fire on you no you idiot i'm not i'm not thinking about doing that but it goes back to what we were talking about if if you are he sees me now he sees me as a human being and that that connections there okay and and if you do that to another human being you think they're you know they clean out their entire locker at school and they start giving stuff away and you are

you know i don't think this is right just ask them are you okay are you thinking of harming yourself? Because if they're not, they're going to fire on you. And if they are, you may have just opened the door that's, oh, that person sees me. I may not kill myself now because somebody sees me as a person. That's a good, I want to unpack a little bit more. Like when you were talking about the mother piece, right? How do you build some rapport is different from like putting on opposite sides.

How do you start to build rapport? You said like, I hear like what I hear you saying, these are the, the, the best conversational tools that I've, I think I've ever been given. They're so simple. Just repeat back to somebody. Hey, what I hear you saying is, Hey, I hear it. It sounds like you're really upset at your mom. Like, man, it sounds like she really did some stuff that, that, you know, was hard on you or that really set you off. Tell me a little bit more about that.

Like repeat what you heard them say. And then I'm a little bit curious about that. Tell me more. How'd that make you feel? How did you, as, as, cause you think about this from a negotiation standpoint, this person knows that you are there to ultimately either arrest them or get them out of doing, they know that. And you have a set number of time, a set amount of time to get on their side and get them to do what you want them to do.

How do you, I love the, the tactical of how and how and what questions, not why questions. What are some other tactics that people can use? Yeah, I mean, one of the big things was, and you're absolutely right, people would say to us, hey, I'll come out, but you've got to promise me I'm not going to go to jail. And we would have to say something like, really? We've been honest and open with each other for the last three hours, and now you want me to lie to you?

Do you really want me to lie to you, you know, when I've been honest with you, when we're building a trust relationship here? Do you really want me to do that? I don't know. You know you're going to go to jail when you come out.

And then we would try to deflect it to some other kind of a, and the reason we did that, and this happened several times, that a year from now, two years from now, three years from now, for example, the mother issue, you know, mom's still around, mom's still pushing his buttons, and three years from now, mom pushes his buttons again, and he does the exact same thing. And if the person ever felt we lied to them, you're done.

I mean, think about any relationship you have in your life. You know, boyfriend, girlfriend, husband, wife, parent, child, boss, subordinate. If there's no trust, if they're lying to you, that's not a good relationship. Same thing with our relationship as a negotiator. So if the person ever felt that we lied to them, you're done. It's over. You're going to have to bring somebody else in and start from ground

zero. So trust or even say, hey, Steve, if we're talking and you ever think that I lied to you, I want you to call me out on it right now. Just tell me. Just say, Terry, I think that's BS. I think you're BSing. Okay. And we'll talk about it. And the same thing is true in negotiation. Another tactic that's really good to use is mirroring or parroting.

It depends on what you call it. Whatever you say, I listen to you talk And then I repeat back to you The last two or three words And I do it on a kind of a curious level Like, you don't think you can do that?

And then go silent use silence because we don't like silence and it'll get the person to talk and the more they talk and the others thing and this works in business as well you want to know more information if somebody says something just look at them and go you seem like you have a reason or or there seems to be some kind of reason behind what you just said and then be quiet, because they'll start to talk and they'll give you more information that in a business negotiation,

they may tell you what the problem is and that way you can craft whatever you're selling them or whatever you're trying to negotiate with in a way that will solve the problem that they just told you. We like to talk. And you probably figured that out. I love to talk. But using silence is incredibly important. Using your voice. I always used to tell us to kind of use our late night DJ voice when we talk to somebody. And let me give you this. This is the last thing. I think this is kind of cool

how human beings communicate with each other. They gave us a formula. And the formula was 7-38-55. So 7% of how humans communicate a message are the words that we use. And think how many times you'll be like, oh, I wish I hadn't said that or I wish I would have said that differently. That's only 7% of how that message comes across. 38% is the tone of voice. Are you really excited to talk like this? Or you're kind of down and kind of the Eeyore, you know, how is that tone of voice?

And 55%, so more than half of how that message comes across, is our facial expressions and our body language. And they gave us that formula because if somebody was negotiating with a person who was barricaded, I was not in the room with that person. So I didn't have the luxury of that 55%. I didn't have the luxury of saying, you know, well, Steve, X, Y, Z, and see you kind of roll your eyes like, oh, what an idiot.

I can't believe he said that to me. So we had to get good at figuring things out, certainly based on what people were saying, but also what they weren't saying and how they were saying it. I mean, that is all, I think that is all great advice. And I mean, we've heard, we've all heard the words, tone, body language piece before, but actually unpacking that here a little bit. I'm going to ask one more question because you have to have a tactic for this.

When somebody is mad at you, when they're, when they are coming at you, how do you stop yourself from getting triggered? This could be used in a relationship, right? Your husband, wife comes at you upset. How do you diffuse that? Cause in, in a hostage negotiation, the, or a negotiation in general, that person is probably at a level nine or 10, they've done something extreme. They are wound up.

How do you not take something personally and, and how do you start to diffuse it and then actually lean in and use these tools? Yeah. And that's a great question. And so we used to describe what we did as negotiators. Think back when you were a little kid and you would go to the park and you play on the teeter totter or the seesaw. When we started negotiating with somebody, their rational brain was way down on the ground.

Their emotional brain was way up in the air. They're yelling and screaming. They're ranting and raving. We want them to burn off as much of that emotional energy.

So during that time, i'm not going to talk about putting the gun down letting the hostages go coming out you're not talking about solutions you're just getting them to burn off that emotional energy so asking those how and what questions being curious being calm using that late night dj voice so you know your wife comes to you and she's all and what do you do you know well you're gonna match her you're gonna be right where she is and you're gonna be talking like that you

know it's like no well really upset. What's going on? And get her to burn off a lot of that emotion. Because you can't talk about a solution when somebody's emotional.

So by asking those questions, we hopefully get that teeter-totter to where it's at equilibrium and more of those how and what questions, more curiosity, more calming voice. Now, all of a sudden, the person's rational brain is up in the air and their emotional brain is down on the ground. Now we can start talking about solutions. putting the gun down, letting the hostage go, coming out. You can't do that at the beginning. So you've got to take the time. But like you said a while ago,

we want it. We want it now. It's fast. Let's solve this problem and move on. And I'll say this about women. Women don't want you to solve their problems. They just want you to shut up and listen. So if your wife comes to you with something like that, just shut up and listen. And nine times out of 10, the problem will take care of itself. That is a very good... Women, women tend to, if you look at how women communicate with other women, it's all empathy.

They're not ever trying to fix each other's problems, but guys are fixers, right? I always tell people, I mean, I am not married, so I guess I should put that caveat in front of it. But I always just tell people like, listen, and if you have to start thinking about fixing it, I always ask, hey, do you want me to go fix this? Or is it better if I just listen to you right now?

What do you really need? Do you just need one of my, my ex-girlfriends told me like the whole point is I want to feel like you see and hear me. And if you, if you look at it from that there, we always think about it as fixing problems. They don't want the problem fixed. They want to feel seen and understood. And that's the main thing. And you're, you're right. Sometimes they will go, the problem will fix itself.

Sometimes you can go fix it afterwards anyway. But just listening and making them feel seen and heard is nine-tenths of what you're trying to accomplish. And think about what we've talked about just in the time we've been talking. Seeing people, you know, whether it's suicide, whether it's somebody, you know, who's in the waiting room at a cancer hospital, whatever it is.

We've talked a lot about do you see the other person as a human being, as a person, not just a client or, you know, a patient or something like that. Do you see them as a human being? Goes back to that connection we were talking about.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, Terry, it has been a blast having you on and we have unpacked a lot. We've, we've covered a lot all the way from playing against Michael Jordan to hostage negotiation, to dealing with your wife. The last thing I want to say, I do actually, this is something I want to say about the significant other argument. Guys tend to get their value through fixing the problem. All you have to change in that equation is my value comes from making my significant other seen and heard.

That will change because that's, that's really what we're trying to do. Right. We're like, I'm going to get value here. I'm going to prove that I'm valuable. And it's like, just change that little piece. When, if somebody wants to learn more about you, you have a website that has a ton of stuff on it. Tell us a little bit about that. Yeah, it's called motivational check. Motivational check was a word that our defensive tactics instructor gave us in words in the police academy.

If you were having one of those days where I just, I just can't go on. I'm tired. I'm hurt. I'm beat up. You could scream out motivational check. And the rest of the class, we were the 84th recruit class in the Cincinnati Police Department, Police Academy. We would scream out, you know, 84 just to let the person know you're not alone. We're in this together. We'll get through it together. And so when I was thinking of a name for my website, motivational check came up.

I've got books, recommendations for books to read, videos to watch. You can leave me a message. My social media links are there. It's all at motivationalcheck.com. Awesome. We will definitely link that down below. Terry, you have been a blessing to have on. I know everybody who has listened has gotten something out of this. Thank you so much for your time. I appreciate it. Well, Steve, thanks for having me on. I really enjoyed talking with you.

It is my pleasure. To everybody else out there, until next time, remember, take action, change lives, make money, live free. Most of all, see the people around you. Take some time to ask good questions and get to know people. And we'll see you next time. on the podcast. Thanks for checking out today's podcast. If you're thinking about holding a live event, it can be one of the most rewarding and the most challenging things in the world.

I would suggest clicking on the links down in the descriptions. We have a lot of free resources there for you, as well as jumping on a call with me. If you're serious about holding an event, click that link, jump on my calendar. I'll be happy to walk you through the do's and don'ts so that you can avoid all the landmines and hold a massively profitable first event. I'll talk to you soon and have an awesome day.