Victoria Volk 0:00
Thank you for tuning in to grieving voices. today. My guest is Dan Goldberg. He is a serial entrepreneur and host of the bits of gold podcast, where he explores thought provoking topics, navigating tough circumstances, and ultimately, how you can build a purpose driven life no matter what. On bits of gold, Dan discusses waking up to who we truly are finding our purpose and the importance of building our dream life through unfiltered conversations, personal experience, and inspiring interviews. Thank you so much for being here, Dan.
Dan Goldberg 0:34
Thanks so much for having me. It's great to great to see you again.
Victoria Volk 0:37
And I was a guest on bits of gold. And I just love that whole bio. I love how you describe the podcast. And I just I think the name is really clever, too, because I think so often, in our stories, there are bits of gold that we can't really see when we're in the thick of it, right, but we can eventually see once we're to the other side of it. And that's why you're on grieving voices. Because somehow, some way you have found the other side of what you've experienced, in a lot of ways, you're probably still going through it because grief is like that it kind of shows up when we least expect it. So what brings you to grieving voices?
Dan Goldberg 1:19
Yeah, I was gonna say still still moving through it. I think that journey is, is is a journey. And it is there's, there's never really a destination, right? Like, I think you're constantly on grief, grief, once you experience grief, it's with you forever. And it morphs. It evolves, it takes shape in a new life and a new light. And as as you get older, and as more time moves on. But I think grief is something that you always carry with you once you experience loss, regardless if it's regardless if it's a traumatic loss or not.
Victoria Volk 1:54
And so what was your first experience, even in childhood, with loss?
Dan Goldberg 2:01
Yeah, so I've actually I feel like so I'm 28 years old. And I feel like, by the time I turned 25, I experienced actually a pretty significant amount of loss in my life. The two most the two most traumatic ones, my my dad passed away when when I turned 20 A couple of months prior to me turning 20 years old, my dad passed away. And then my mom passed away a month after my my 25th birthday. So within a five year period, I lost both my dad and my mom. But prior to that actually growing up I I had lost a both my grandparents, my grandma and aunt and a dog. So I feel like I've actually had like a pretty wide a lot of loss at a at a fairly young age.
Victoria Volk 2:51
And how can I ask how your parents address those losses? Because often we just don't know as parents what to do or what to say?
Dan Goldberg 2:59
Yes. So I would say the first the first. The first loss that my grandma was the first person that that passed away in my direct family. And I was like, so young, I really don't have any memories with her. I don't even remember how that was handled or how my family navigated. I really don't remember that my grandma was fairly older. So I don't have any memories there. When my aunt passed away, that was completely unexpected. And she died in the middle of of of the night. And I want to say it was days before or maybe even on her 50th birthday. But I remember my parents came home and they my parents were out to dinner, my parents came home my sisters and I were on the couch and they told us that tell us something and my aunt my They said my aunt passed away. And we were caught we were close with this. And and similarly, you know, like I just didn't really I wasn't at a point in my life, from an age standpoint that I can really understand comprehend. What what that actually meant. Yeah, you know, it's, it's, I really have never spoken about my end. But it is. It's interesting now looking back, just like how limited my understanding was of what it meant that she had died. And I remember my parents telling me that but I really remember not being able to comprehend or understand and I'm sure we'll get into it later on this podcast. But I'm very involved now in an organization experience camps, which is a free one week camp for kids that have lost loved one, ages nine to 16. And it's only a five day camp I go every single summer and I think about that a lot while I'm at at the camp volunteering as a counselor, just like when I'm with kids who are 910 Even 11 years old, how they're, what they're processing and how they're able to try how they're trying to understand or what it really means the person is dead and gone. forever and what that means, physically, obviously, I'm speaking.
Victoria Volk 5:04
Do you remember how old you were when your aunt passed?
Dan Goldberg 5:08
Um, let's see. I was definitely before maybe 10 or 11. So, but yeah, it's like it's even my memories with her are very blurry. But I just vividly remember really not understanding or comprehending, a comprehending death. And, you know, I could I could actually speak to that a little bit just to get off my aunt, specifically with my dad. So my dad died when I was 20. The leading up to his death, I had just transferred into a new college, my parents dropped me off parents dropped me off in August, and Parents Weekend was around Thanksgiving around November time. And my dad traveled a lot for for work. And he had just gotten back from a trip overseas. And my dad was like, I'm not feeling too well. He's and he said, I'm not sure if we're going to come up Parents Weekend or not, but I want to see you. So I said, do whatever you need to do, if you want to come up, come up if you can't come up, because you're not feeling great. Whatever you want to do, he ended up saying, You know what I really want to see you so he ended up coming up. And when he got there, he looked completely different. He was very, like his skin color was very, very pale. He looked a lot skinnier than he then he was. And he just didn't look well. And we went out for we I hung out with him and my mom during the day we went out for dinner. And the next morning, he woke up and he said, You know, I'm really not feeling well. So my parents decided to go home, they didn't stay the weekend, they only say that one night, they drove home. But instead of going home, they made a detour and stopped to the hospital. And originally they thought maybe he had maybe he got something from traveling overseas, maybe it was the flu, something like that. And they were running all these different tests. And about like a week and a half later, they called me and they said that has cancer. And it was even in that moment that and at that point, I was 20 years old, I really couldn't comprehend, or understand that, like death was even a part of the equation. When my parents told me my dad was sick. My dad called me and he said, You know, it's not I we have to tell you something, we have to talk to you. I I have cancer, that I'm going to see the best doctors in the world and I'm going to be okay. And I have I have actually a lot of a lot of my uncle's are and answered our doctors or work in the hot but hospital or health system. And my my uncle called me after. And he sort of just reassured me you know, my dad's gonna get the best care. And he's gonna He's gonna be okay. And we're gonna get through this that was sort of like the the messaging that my parents sort of told me from the get go that my uncle sort of told me, and seven short months later, he passed away. And as as that as through those seven months, my dad was progressively getting worse, and I was away at school, but I'd come home for the holidays. And I'd come I'd make some trips to come home just to see him. And every time it was progressively worse and worse. So when I first saw him he looked very skinny pale. Next time I saw him he was using a walker. Next time I saw him he was using a wheelchair. Next time I saw him we put this like the electric chair in the on the stair so we get up from the first floor to the second floor. And the next time I saw him he couldn't really move from his bed to the bathroom without being completely out of breath. And then it was like he was just sort of stuck in this chair. And toward towards the end he was really just like stuck in this chair. And we got like one of those reclining chairs for him. And he would just sort of stay there drink a lot of liquids and he was going to get chemo treatments. And even throughout that entire process. There was never truly a point in my mind where I said, my dad is going to to die or that that was even sort of a that was even a part of the the possibility in the realm of possibility. And actually days leading up to his his his death. My dad, my dad ended up not being able to really walk towards the end. And he had a lot of hip pain. And he ended up going to the hospital to get some radiation to his hip. And I was supposed to be traveling for for like the weekend to go to Boston for for for work. And this was this was Friday, and I went to the hospital to see him. And I said that Should I cancel my trip. I'm just going to Boston for the weekend. But I don't mind I could stay here. And he said nothing's going to change between now and when you come home on Sunday. So he said go on the trip. And it was at this point that my dad sort of in that same at that same day earlier in the day my dad had told me there's nothing more that doctors can do from a chemo standpoint. But they're going to raise my hip. And I'm going to be able to have a lot more movement after. And we're going to do like one more big family trip. And I'm going to be okay. So, you know, I saw I said, Okay, do you want me to stay and he said, Go go to Boston, everything's going to be fine. And I ended up giving him a kiss, and went to Boston. And Sunday morning, my mom called me and she said, Come home as soon as possible. got in the car first thing in the morning, drove right to the hospital. And at that point, they had like, my dad's pain meds, and he wasn't, he was, he wasn't really he wasn't really lucid at that point, he was just sort of sleeping and making some uncomfortable, like, just noises, you know, it was clearly he was, he was clearly going to die. And the doctor had come in and just said, you know, he's, this could go on for a couple days, several hours, they didn't really know, but that he was going to die. And that was, it was really in that moment that, like, I collapsed, and I ended up going leaving the room going to the waiting room. And I just remember like putting my head in my hands and trying to understand or comprehend that my dad's going to die. And it really wasn't up until that point where I really had even, there wasn't even a thought or imagination or possibility in my mind. And part of it was definitely that my parents tried to shelter me or protect me from it's funny, like the Protect me, but protect me from, you know, the, just the painful, the painful truth and the painful destination that we ultimately ended up at. I think my dad definitely tried to shelter, shelter me a little bit. And that was by choice. And that was his decision. But it definitely, but that was really like the first time that I realized that, hey, people, people do die. People do die young. And it's funny, just since we started talking about my aunt, it's even funny, having had those experiences and having lost my aunt and grandparents. You know, you understand obviously, as a young person that death is, death is like, one of one of the few guarantees we all know is our inevitable destination. But I really do think so often. And I would say that this was very much my life previous previous to experiencing significant loss and losing my dad, my life was really, everything's good. Probably the things that weren't of significance, I thought were of significance. And although you know that death is a part of life, you're not really constantly living with that on your mind, thinking about people die, or those around me can die or those that I love die, or I can die you don't really think of those things I really believe is someone who's young, naive, and unfortunately, or unfortunately, unfortunately, hasn't really experienced anything significant. You don't really, I don't think you're walking around, really holding that, that weight that death is a real part of life and that it can strike in a moment's notice with no warning, no rhyme nor reason. Things will happen and that sort of life. And I think that's an you know, I'm sure we'll get into it. But that's definitely something that I carry near and dear to me now. It's like that is so physically, spiritually, emotionally, it's, it's such a real thing at this point in my life. And knowing that that's what's that's sort of like the bouncing board that enables me to think about life with this unique perspective, which has sort of been the guiding light in my life now now ever forward. But yeah, I just, I just don't really think that we think about it as young kids, even young adults, even maybe adults, if you haven't really experienced significant loss, I think, you know, I don't want to say necessarily my, my dad, because his his sister died when later on in life, that was my aunt, but like, my mom really didn't experience significant like growing up, we lived in such a happy household. And there were things obviously, where there were challenges or life circumstances that my parents had to navigate. But I have such a happy childhood and life as we knew it as a family, I would say was so happy that like we really didn't experience the significant shitstorm that would come in my early 20s and mid 20s.
Victoria Volk 14:31
And I want to speak to that a little bit because we are a product of our environment, right? And so you can have two different homes where they can have all these different experiences, negative, impactful experiences, and it's all negative and the worst always happens to us. And here's another challenge and it's really heavy energy, or we can grow up in a home where it's even if there's a challenge it's, well you know what we got we'll get through this And it's there's this positive outlook versus this negative outlook. And so although that served you well as a child growing up, and you know, it might be some people might even say, well take those rose colored glasses off, right? Because the reality is, is that crap happens. But it's the outlook that your parents gave you. Right? That partially may have resulted in this inability to think about death as like this finality or like this, like this could ever happen to me. So it's like, where's the balance? Yeah. You know, because you can go, it's like the pendulum swung very much the positive way, instead of the negative way, but yet, it didn't prepare you. For what, for the challenges when they really did when it was really big. Right? When it was something really big?
Dan Goldberg 15:54
Yeah, well, so it's definitely it's, it's interesting. When I look back at when my when my dad was sick, I had this extremely naive perspective thinking, Oh, my dad's not gonna die. Honestly, there was one conversation I had with a friend who had lost his that young and he had told me, you know, maybe half of the conversations with your dad that you want to have. The advice was have these conversations you'll want to have with your dad that you might want to questions you might want to ask him later on in life, but it's like now I sit here as a 28 year old when I was 20. The questions I would ask him now, versus the questions I would ask him that are so drastically different than you know, it was sure we sat down we, I would we would talk about things. But obviously, he's he's not here to answer those questions today that are now on my mind. But anyways, that was my one friend. That was that was I had that one conversation with a friend. And that was the only time where like, death really was part of the conversation. So I had this extremely naive, and just like very innocent mindset around life and death when my dad was sick. On the contrary, when my mom was sick, it was a very different experience. My mom got sick when I was coming home from a 25. I was coming home from sorry, 24, I was coming home from experience camps. This was in August, and weeks prior, my mom had gallbladder surgery. And they said some they said that she had she had gall stones, and she ended up getting gallbladder surgery. And she she didn't really like make a full recovery. I ended up going to experience camps. I volunteer for a week, I'm driving home from Georgia to New York. And when I get home, I get home pretty late at night, I go to sleep, I wake up in the morning, and I'm very excited. tell my mom about the week, all the kids that I've connected with the incredible stories. And my mom, my mom slept later than me, which like very, very much was not like her by any means. And I was sitting on the couch, waiting for her to wake up and she had no coming down. And she was she was in her pajamas. And she sat down on the couch next to me. And she told me that I've been diagnosed with cancer, but they don't know what type of cancer, but we're gonna get through this and everything's gonna be okay. Sort of like, you know, the same very positive mindset around that we're gonna get through this. My mom was having a tough time eating and keeping food down. And they were waiting for these test results to come back to try to identify what cancer it was what treatment she'd be getting all those things. And in the five days that were waiting, she really started to experience a lot of significant pain. And she ended up going to we ended up taking her to the hospital. And she checked in and from the moment she checked in, she never ended up checking out she was in the hospital for a little over two months. And they weren't able to identify what cancer she had until the very end of her time in the hospital. Originally, they said she had soft gel cancer, then they couldn't really identify it. She ended up actually switching hospitals then going back to the original hospital. And she had three major surgeries while she was in the hospital where they said we don't know if you're going to live through these surgeries, but we recommend going through with them. So with my mom's experience, it was really the only words that I would use to explain the experience that we had with her was just like absolute hell torturous how like she went through these three major surgeries in a very short period of time. She was only in hospital for two and a half months. She had like a tube in her nose. That was how she was she was getting nutrients. She made it to one chemo treatment. And again, they didn't really have a sense of what cancer they were trying to treat. And like I was sitting in the room with her and at the end she ended up being in excruciating pain, yelling in so much pain and you know you want to you want to do something to help the person but there's nothing you can do. So, you know, I'm sitting in the room and they come in they're trying to give her some some medication to try to ease the pain. It was just really hell. And she ended up being diagnosed with a cancer called undifferentiated pleomorphic sarcoma. And the sort of inside joke with my mom was my mom said if you if you end up get always like for a long time that if you ended up getting cancer, you want some, you want something that, you know, you know, typically the cancers that you hear of are the ones you want it, you're gonna get a cancer, you want that cancer, because they know a lot about it, there's a lot of money, there's a lot of research towards it. And there's more treatment to help those cancers to help people who have those cancers. So I was sort of like the the inside running running joke with my mom. And my mom ended up being diagnosed with undifferentiated pleomorphic sarcoma. And my mom made some joke when they finally said that sort of towards the tail end, just like, of course, this is the this is the one I got. But that so she was in hospital for these two and a half months diagnosed with his cancer. And really, after that first chemo treatment, very quickly, after they said, there's nothing more that that we can do. And she ended up staying in the hospital, but moving into hospice care, and it was at that point that, you know, we knew she was days, weeks, months prior before she would die, but it was turned out to be about 10 days or so. But it was in that moment. It was in that journey with with my mom, where I had a completely different mentality and perspective around cancer and loss and death and all that, I would say that with my mom, I was hopeful. But I was very realistic that this story didn't have a happy ending. And, you know, my, my one of my uncle's, again, I have a few uncles that are doctors, I spoke to one of my uncles that stalked her. And he said, you know, with cancer, it's like, his advice was don't start Googling, don't start researching. Because cancer is a one or a zero, you're either gonna live or you're or you're not, there's not, there's not like, Oh, I could be in the 76% that will survive. You know, so he said, there's no point to Google to start spending your time Googling and trying to figure things out, your mom's either gonna be okay, or she's not. But with this specific cancer, I knew that from the beginning that that was a real part of the equation and that, in the best case scenario, my mom was going to live for another couple of years. And I accepted that from the very beginning that life as I knew it, was has has changed once again, and my mom, she might live longer, but she's going to die in the near future. And I accepted that really, from the very beginning. You know, some people I remember having a conversation with my uncle, and this isn't to get into religion or spirituality. But My other uncle just kept saying, we have to be hopeful, we need to pray, we need to be hopeful, we need to be hopeful. And, you know, I told him, you know, if that's what's working for him, I support it. But I'm going to be supportive, but also realistic, that there's nothing that any of us can do to change the outcome, the circumstance, and we need to accept that. And I definitely like, you know, I gave him an example, sort of, like, if you're, if you're on a plane that's going to crash, you can pray, you can be hopeful, but the planes still ultimately going to crash. And you're going to die if you're on that plane, right? Most most likely. So you know, I gave him I sort of just gave him this example. And I said, this is my mom's on on the plane that's going to crash, there's no, there's no positive, there's no happy ending to the story, we need to sort of accept the reality and be supportive. And that's, that's it. And that's sort of where my, my mentality went through in that moment. And that's sort of how I navigated those two months. Now, I was also, you know, I went to an extremely dark place where it was very hard to be to feel happy, and my life just revolved around waking up, going to the hospital, sitting in the hospital, going to sleep, going home, going to sleep, doing it again for two and a half months, and watching my mom progressively get worse. But, again, my personal experience and my personal ability to just be realistic about the situation and the cards that we were dealt was very pinpoint, I'd say.
Victoria Volk 24:02
Well, I'm just to your point of what your uncle had said to you. He's saying this to someone who had already lost a parent to cancer, you know what I mean? Like, so it's like, Do you realize who you're saying that to? You know, it's not just like, this is your first rodeo? Yeah, absolutely. You had already been through that. So did you feel almost kind of jaded or, like, and I, you know, I think this spirit spirituality or not even religion, but just like the relationship to God, or that that relationship that either you have it or you don't. And personally, when my dad died when I was eight, that went away, like I didn't have that sense of spirituality or anything like I was angry with God. And so did you find yourself feeling that way, especially after your dad had passed where, you know, you had this hope and you have this naive approach, in a way, did that change for you?
Dan Goldberg 24:57
I would say that with my dad, you My focus really didn't become so much me it became much more helped my mom support my mom. And I sort of just followed almost like followed my mom's footsteps, I would say my mom turned a little bit more in the spiritual direction, I was just like there to be with my mom, but not necessarily turning into God or religion or things, things of that nature, with with my mom when she died, would carry me after my mom died. So this will get get back to your question around spirituality and what sort of carried me through. But when my mom died, like leading up to days before she was she was going to die. Although I accepted that she was going to die, I was in a very dark place. It looked at my blinds are closed, but it looked like a day out like today, it was beautiful outside the sun was like beaming down. And I remember I was walking to get lunch with a friend. And so my friend had lost his dad growing up. So he had experienced a significant loss in his life. And this, this specific friend of mine is just like a very good listener. And when we sat down, I told him, You know, I don't want to, I don't want this to just be like me venting to you. You don't need, I don't want you to feel compelled that you have to say anything. He's like, I'm just here to listen, you know, I'm not here to share my opinions. I'm just here to listen, I'm here to just literally say whatever you want, I'm here for you. And I really felt like I was in such a dark place I could not. And I'm really a happy person, I could not feel any sense of happiness. Again, it was like beautiful outside. And normally I'd go outside and be like, Oh, it's a beautiful day. This is this is great. And in that moment, I like everything was gray. That's really the only way that I could explain it. It's almost like when you if you wake up and you just, you don't want to get out of bed. It's not necessarily you don't have any aspirations. It's just that there's I felt almost as if there was no point there was there's there was no point to get out of bed. There was no point to to do anything during the day because life life kind of suck. That's how that's, that's, that's really the feeling that I was feeling. And after that lunch, I went back to the hospital. And it was at that point that my mom told me that there was no more there was nothing more that they could do, and that she was going to move to hospice care. And I remember telling her life so unfair. First, the world took that from us. And that's already enough. But now we have to lose you too. My mom said life is unfair. But life's also glorious, she said you have to go and find the glory. And that was really the big thing that like instantly changed my entire mentality where my mom almost pressed it into my mind, it was it really was like in that in that one conversation where I was in this place where not not where I was suicidal, but definitely where I just was not feeling a point to get out of bed to to just go about my life at that point, like the lowest low the darkest place that I've personally ever done, was in that moment where like, I accepted that life is filled with hardship. And that's, that's life and you need to sort of accept it. But there's also plenty of beautiful things. Plenty, as my mom said plenty of glorious things that you need to go and find embrace, and life sad balance of, you know, painful, but also yet so beautiful. And that was really like the, the shift. And when my mom had died, and in the eulogy that I gave at the funeral, I had said that I'm not going to focus on the why. You know, and I might spend some time thinking about why why is this happened. But ultimately, that's not where I'm going to focus my time and energy, I'm going to focus on the what, what I'm going to do now as a result of the circumstances as a result of what I've lived through. And I'm going to focus on finding the glory despite, despite the unfair despite the shit, I'm going to focus on what I can do now as a result of the circumstances I've been put in, and that that I'd say is really was really the where I went to after my mom died and sort of, you know, in many ways what what led us to, to this moment now.
Victoria Volk 29:15
And you starting your podcast?
Dan Goldberg 29:19
Yeah, it's starting the podcast getting involved in experience camps I've been involved for almost a decade now. And you know, I feel like I am on such a mission to help others who have lived through significant loss know that, you know, loss is unfortunately, a very real part of life but that it doesn't need to destroy your define us and that it very much can, you know, people who experienced significant loss can still very much go on to live happy, healthy lives that they that they enjoy.
Victoria Volk 29:50
So you were a part of experience camps even before your dad passed?
Dan Goldberg 29:55
No. So I only I got involved. I'm almost so this is going to be my ninth summer So once my dad passed, I went, I went, I, I grew up going to summer camp. And once I had the opportunity to like, go back to camp in a more meaningful way, I sort of jumped at it. So once my dad got sick, I went I once my dad passed, I got involved right away.
Victoria Volk 30:16
Yeah, I've looked up the organization. I'll put the link in the show notes. And that is something that I that would be an amazing way to spend a week in this. Yeah, you should come. I would love that. I'm in the sticks, though, of North Dakota. So anywhere I would go, I'd have to hop on a plane. And
Dan Goldberg 30:34
We have we have some people who come from last year because I COVID. But north from London, Australia. Oh, wow. Yeah. But we have we have we've grown a lot. So there's camps all over the US, California, outside Chicago, Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania, Georgia. I think they're opening up one in DC now and Maine.
Victoria Volk 30:54
Yeah, cuz that was not I remember I went to I went to one summer camp, and it was, it would have been four years after my dad had passed, I think it would have been about 12 or so. But it was a church camp. Okay. And I had an amazing time. I still remember that time, but it wasn't for grief. You know, it wasn't for, for me really my grief and things like that. But that, you know, and I talked about this on other podcasts, I've been a guest, but there wasn't room for me to grieve, you know, as a child, so I internalized all of mine. And so, for you, you know, having that happen when you're a little bit older, you have that maybe ability to you know, your approach is very different. And your outlook is very different. But I imagine though at that age, too, it's very difficult. Like you mentioned your one friend, but wasn't that difficult to find people your age that you could, that could relate to you or you could relate to them?
Dan Goldberg 31:59
Yeah, I would say definitely after my dad died, it was extremely difficult. I was going into my senior year of college, then everyone's focused on partying, getting drunk. I'd say very limited schoolwork. Going out. It was it was an extremely difficult year for me. And I really didn't I wanted to drop out so badly. I had like, my body was telling me drop out, go home, help, help around, help around the house, help your mom out. That was really all I wanted to do. One of the last things my dad told me, because I voiced to my dad numerous times while he was sick, I want to drop out I want to drop out. And he's like, just get the damn degree that was sort of like, and then there was never any discussion. So that's, that was sort of my dad's wish. And I, I listened to it. But yeah, it was it was really challenging. I would say I'd wake up, and I'd wake up away from my mom. And I did not know. I did really didn't understand like, why I was even at school, I wanted to go home and help help my mom. And that's, you know, when my dad died, and I know I already mentioned it, but so much of my personal focus and and life became around, how can I help my mom, I really was not thinking so much about like, what does Danny need? What? What do I need to heal to move forward? To keep going in my life, it became how can I sort of not necessarily replace my dad, but help as if my dad was still alive. That was really where I went. And when my mom died? I would say almost in like five years, it was truly the first time where I took a step back and started thinking about like, what does Danny need? What does Danny want? What do I want my life to look like? And that's where I started to really go on this, like, very deep introspective journey of how do I become more intentional and what what do I how do I make sense of what life is and all all those questions that you know, are sort of the every journey we're all on trying to think through as as we build our own lives. But yeah, it was it was really hard to find that community early on. And after my dad died, that I was I really feel extremely lucky and fortunate that I did find community very quickly by volunteering at experience camps, and I ended up I remember the first time I spoke about my dad, it was I was terrified. It was extremely challenging. I would break down and in tears and you know, I couldn't even it was very hard and challenging to just say my dad died. You know, it's like almost funny looking. I've said it now so many times that it's it's just like, good more. Good morning. Can I have a coffee? You know, it's almost like the same thing. It's very matter of fact at this point, but I remember that being extremely difficult and even in like a small setting, even with my closest friends. Even with family, I'd say actually with family there's there's a You know, families are different. But I would say for the most part, like, my family and I, we acknowledge, and we celebrate, like death of bursaries or things like that, and we say we missed the person, but we're never going beyond sort of that surface level. And you know, even in many ways with friends, it's it's rare at this point that we do that. But there are moments or times like add experience camps, where going there is very acceptable in the norm and things of that nature. So I ended up finding community in that and ended up sort of throwing myself at other opportunities, I don't know if it's still around. But there, there's was an organization, that dinner party, which did grief parties for people who have experienced significant loss, and I went to a bunch of those and met a bunch of people who, you know, had lived through a significant loss. And, you know, it was actually funny, I went to that only a few times, but I remember going to this dinner party. And I was definitely I think the youngest, both times, I was the youngest person there. And this was only after my dad had passed. And I had already from from volunteering and experience kampsen, from sharing my own story, and from helping others who have lived through loss at this dinner party, I must have been maybe 22 years old, 23 years old, and everyone else, maybe it was like late 20s, early 30s. And a lot of people, there was the first time sharing their story. And that's the point is you everyone brings something to the dinner party, and you sit down and you talk about your people, or the person that has died. And you've sort of built community through through this network. And I remember, like, really, there were so many people there who was the first time they were sharing their story. And my friend and I went with a friend from experience camps, we almost ended up like leading the dinner party and getting the conversation going and trying to make it an environment in which people felt like comfortable to sort of go there. But it is it is very difficult, I think to to find that community. But I really do feel like there are a lot of organizations now that exist, if you if you seek them out, where you can find community and find people who are who have lived through something similar or going through something similar. I can't really speak obviously as much to what it's like being a child. But I can only imagine how difficult and challenging it is to lose someone significant when you're so young, because it's I think the processing, really understanding and comprehending is the challenge there. And I know so many people now who have who have lost someone very young, and you know, they deal with all sorts of different not necessarily problems, but just their their own grief journey is very different, where maybe they don't have memories with the person. And they have different challenges as it relates to how they grieve for their grief journey, as opposed to my own grief journey, where it's like, I have so many memories with both my parents, but you know, they're, they're not here, etc. So it's very different. Obviously.
Victoria Volk 38:00
When this happened to you, at a really, I'll say ripe age, like you're just on the cusp of going on your own into adulthood. And and I know that, like you kind of described just the college years, it can be a crazy time and things. Did you find yourself going down this slippery slope? Were you using alcohol? Were you using other things to soothe you during those years?
Dan Goldberg 38:27
Yeah, I wouldn't say that. I was definitely drinking but I would say more like any other college student who's excited or living for the party. I was not I was not like drinking necessarily. I wasn't drinking though like to numb the pain that I was in, I would say the college was sort of just like my senior year of college was a tremendous block sort of, of me getting to where I wanted to get to go, which was I want to get out of here. I want to get this degree because that's what my dad wanted. For me. And I want to I want to get out of here so I can help take care of my mom. But I really didn't use I wasn't using like drugs or alcohol as a way to numb numb the pain I was in. I started seeing a therapist for the first time my life like right, immediately after my dad died. And I think that that really helped. I did I did. You know I think grief manifests itself in different ways. And I think physical is one of the many ways that we experience grief and early on like when I was 21 right after my dad died. I couldn't again like I had I really had to and I just spent I know. We're talking now for like 45 minutes about grief and I feel now I'm at a point where I really can discuss in depth my emotions, how I feel what I felt, but right after my dad died, I definitely couldn't. I couldn't. I still was having a difficult time comprehending I remember the night he died going in the car with my mom, my uncle and They were driving home. And so I remember driving home and just like, again, my hands, my head was in my hands. And I just, I remember both when my mom and dad died, like, specifically, I guess when my dad died, just like, sort of just sitting there shaking my head, trying to really comprehend, you know, what, what had just taken place. So my dad, like thinking, so my dad's gone now forever, how, why? It's so unfair, I'm so angry, but I couldn't even like, you know, I couldn't really put like, for example, I'm so angry, I couldn't put the emotion onto the feeling. And for me, when my dad died, the grief really manifested in physical ways. So like, my dad had all this hip pain. And then I was like, I think I have all this hip pain too. And I would find myself really in more of like a panic state. And I remember having a lot of panic attacks and being absolutely terrified that I was also going to die. And, and all that was because I, I really had an inability to, to feel like I had, and it wasn't like I was I was numb to the loss it was that I didn't know how to physically, emotionally express what I was feeling. And I would say, really, that's, that's what, for me, going to therapy like, right away helped with. And I think, in many ways, like finding community, going to go into the third therapy, which I'm still doing now like, that's enabled me to be able to openly share and discuss and actually feel these feelings were in the past, especially at 20, where I really couldn't, I really, like I really had such an inability. And it's almost funny looking back now, because who I was eight years ago is so tremendously different from who I am now. But it's definitely funny. I think as a whole, like society is definitely getting better with discussing grief and having it be a part of a normal, a normal part of a conversation. It's not so taboo anymore. But you know, thanks to shows like yours and the work that a lot of people are doing in this space. But I definitely think it's still a very uncomfortable one where people don't know what to say, people don't know how to support the people that are going through it. I do think like, when you're so young, it's very difficult for even you, yourself to, to like self advocate for yourself and to understand and that that was really where I struggled after my dad died, and especially being in that college environment. Like, I wasn't sitting down with a friend over lunch discussing that my dad just died. And I want to, I just need someone to listen, or I want to share some things and I'm feeling you know, like, I wasn't at a point where I could could do those things.
Victoria Volk 42:47
Because you probably didn't feel safe to.
Dan Goldberg 42:49
Yeah, I'd say that. And I really think I had like a knee didn't have the language. Yeah, you know, and it's, it's,
Dan Goldberg 42:57
I don't know if it's necessarily a gender thing, but I think also, it is challenging for like, to put the emotion to the feeling, right. Like I actually do feel angry right now or actually do feel sad right now. And, yeah.
Victoria Volk 43:10
And it's not bad. It's just and you can feel joy and you can feel anger. Yeah, absolutely the same. Within the same minute, right. Yeah. So I'm curious too. Are you an only child?
Dan Goldberg 43:24
I have two older sisters as well.
Victoria Volk 43:26
Okay, I mean, have you been through the years like with those with the loss of the parents has that in I mean, I don't know if you're okay, sharing, but has that brought you closer together?
Dan Goldberg 43:38
Yeah. So my, my family is like, we're very close. My sisters live. Like only like, 40 blocks away from me and Manhattan. So we grew up and like I said, like, when we grew up, we, my family knew no, we didn't know like sadness, really, as a family. Like, we only knew happiness. And, you know, I feel so fortunate, grateful lucky, like, blessed that that was that that was how we grew up. And that was, that was all we we knew, like how, how freakin lucky were we? And I would say we really even became closer after my, my dad had passed, and just like wanting to be there for one another. And, you know, I know that you know, we're very lucky to that that is sort of where we all went to and after my mom passed that that stayed the course and you know, I think we all want to be there for an in each other's lives. And obviously, we can't fill fill the void and not having our parents be here but at least be there as as much as possible. And I really I feel so this this is this definitely isn't something that I've openly voiced before, but I actually really feel so grateful for my like, Send a family, my cousins, my aunts and uncles, I think about that a lot. After my mom had died, you know, after my dad had died, my mom's still there. So she's sort of like the glue that kept everyone together. And after my mom died, my family like my aunt's my uncle's, my cousins have stepped up big in every which way, in every which way imaginable. Like, my uncles that live across the world will fly in one of my uncle's is coming here in a couple of weeks. And to see us to be there for us to be there with us. One of my both my sisters recently had baby, their first baby wants to start identical twins, so she had babies, but you know, my, my, my family stepped up big. And I'm really so like, moved and grateful that that is what they did. Because, you know, when you wake up in the morning, no one forces any any of us to do anything. And they've all consciously made a decision, an effort, and a choice that, you know, I'm going to step up big and, and be there despite my sister, right, their sister or their brother not being here, I recognize that I'm like, so freaking lucky that that is the situation. And that that is how things are in our life. And yeah, it's like, honestly, I sometimes have to like, pinch myself, because I'm like, Wow, I'm lucky. I'm lucky in this situation, because I do know that, you know, after you live through significant loss, families, it's very easy for families to be torn apart from lack of communication from high emotions from for all for all different reasons. And I think that I don't, I don't think that in and just in any family, you know, the, that the uncle or the aunt steps up big and he's like, I'm gonna be there when you have your first kid or I'm gonna be there when you go through that milestone in your life. And I really feel like, yeah, just I know how lucky I am to have to have that.
Victoria Volk 47:03
Yes, you are. Yeah, that wasn't my experience. So yeah, it is, it makes a huge impact. And so thank you for bringing that up. Because anyone listening to this, if they've lost a sibling who has children, to keep that in mind, the impact that they still can have, in that person's life, the child's life, their niece or nephews life?
Dan Goldberg 47:27
Yeah, I'm getting chills here thinking about it. But you know, I think I think also, I think about it, sometimes it's definitely been like a thought that's popped into my mind, where now with my sisters, what if that they have kids, you know, it's like, if God forbid, something happened to them, and they, and they passed, you know, I see that you can now step up big, and I see the impact that it can have. And, and, you know, I think about it as it relates to other people, right, it hasn't really been my my personal situation, but I've definitely had my own challenges or friction points within my own family, with navigating things with my sisters and things like that. And that will have to be fun for another podcast, you know, because it's, it's difficult when you when you have no parent, to be in the situation and to help resolve things and say, Hey, this is a dumb argument, let's move forward, let's move beyond this. Hug it out, your siblings, you'd love each other, let's let's move forward. So you know, there's, there's absolutely challenges. Where the, because we don't have any parent that's alive to to be to be the parent, right? There's no one to say, let's just move forward from here. So I do think you know, that communication after you, you live through someone, significant loss is so important. And also, you know, that because I know that they happen, that you know, these, these the arguments that you could have with a sibling, a parent after you live through something, after you live through significant loss. It's just like, you know, that's life and those things will happen. It's inevitable. But the communication, having a good line of communication is just so important. Because in the end, like, there's no there's no argument, there's no friction point, that's, that's worth it. Because, you know, we're all we're all going to die eventually. And I think that having being able to navigate you know, those difficult conversations after or just those friction points is so important because in the end, I really believe that it's, it's more worthwhile to be there for each other than have some argument calls from whatever it may be, but as a result of your loss or grief and to be able to sort of move forward and whether you know, I'm speaking very broadly here but whether there be resolve insight, but be able to just accept the differences and move forward and still be there for that person. Regardless if you don't see eye to eye and things like that because that's what's so important after you live after you lose someone to You to be there for the people that you love and be able to support them and, and move forward with those people.
Victoria Volk 50:05
Well, and the key thing to remember is that everybody lost. And everybody had their own unique individual relationship to with that person. And so yeah, bring their own personal pain and their own personal perspective.
Dan Goldberg 50:21
And with friends as well, you know, because I think, I think sometimes with friends, it's like it's not looked as the same, but I think it's a little bit like discredited where sometimes people don't put as much weight on it, like, oh, you lost, you lost your friend, you know, but that person might have such an that person might have had such an impact. This this woman that I was close with, while I was in college, she had cancer, but she didn't really let anyone know. And I was on Facebook, well, like this is last year scrolling and I found out she had passed away. And I was really close with her. I actually, she was an older woman. Her name was Barbara and she lost her dad growing up young. And she ended up her husband ended up passing on earlier early in life. And I went to Syracuse and she was head of like alumni relations. And she was she was an older woman, I want to say maybe late 60s, early 70s, I ended up telling her all about experience camps after my dad died. She really like was there for me while I was in school. And I had this very unique special relationship with this woman. And I ended up bring her to, to experience hands on like, You got to come you got to come and she actually, one year, she just came to like, see what was going on. In the following year, she ended up volunteering, and she was like an out of bunk, cabin counselor, but she got the full experience. And she was able to help the kids who who were there. And we had a special relationship. And I ended up finding very unexpectedly that she had passed. And it it really it really like it was like sort of like a someone hit me in the back of the head with a hammer I wasn't expecting it, I sort of we would we she would let me know if she was in New York City. And we try to find time for like, grab a coffee or something like that. But we weren't talking as much as we used to just because life right? And not not to say that, you know, I'm experiencing, I was I was I was grieving again. And I was experiencing this loss in that moment. And for the days to come, maybe the weeks come I felt it. And I was I was feeling the pain associated that I had lost this person and we sort of lost touch. And I would have loved to check in more. And I wish I had said hey, how you doing more often and things like that. So you know, it's like, I definitely think that the grief is early like grief with friend sometimes is discredited, or there's not as much weight on it. But that's, you know, there's there's loss and grief in so many ways, obviously outside of just physically, the death of someone. But you know, I think that that's something that people need to I hope people can understand and be there for people who have lost a friend because they have, like you said, their own their own experience with those people as well.
Victoria Volk 52:58
Well, and we all have like our person, right? Or maybe our group of people who are in our inner circle who know our dreams who support our dreams. And those are important people in our lives. And so to your point, well, it's just a friend, you have plenty of friends, you know, people can say sensitive things without really understanding what your relationship was 100% I'm interested in learning now, how all of these experiences has shifted your perspective and how you live your life now.
Dan Goldberg 53:33
Yeah. So I would say that. I feel like we definitely got into it over the last hour around how I evolved and how my life evolved. After from when my dad died when my mom ended up ultimately dying. And I know I already touched upon it, but my mom's eulogy, I gave this whole talk around, you know, sort of finding your glory, finding the glory in life and not focusing on the Y but focusing on the what, what, what are you going to do now as a result of the circumstances that that you're in. And I would say in many ways, that is the guiding light, it's sort of is the guiding principle in my own life. I wake up every single day, and I think about knowing that I too am going to die. How do I want to spend the limited time that I'm given on this earth? And I focus on mapping my life towards those things, to doing those things to prioritizing those things. And it's very interesting how we actually started with the beginning of the conversation talking about my aunt, and talking about like the how when your child when they're young, it's very hard to comprehend that and understand what death really is and that it's that that the person is gone forever and that it's it's very hard to understand and comprehend all those things. Now, it's like death is death is a piece of me and it's that something that I carry with me every single day. Where I really focus on knowing like knowing that I too am going to die. How do I want to spend my time knowing that I am going to die, like, put my phone down and be present be in this moment, knowing that I am going to die, appreciate the fact that I just woke up and was had the ability to put my feet on the ground when I woke up and that I'm alive, healthy, and able and that I have opportunity in front of front of me knowing that I too, am going to die. Where do I want to spend my time? How do I want to focus my time and all that, and that that's sort of like, like, death is sort of the guiding light in my life almost, you know, knowing knowing that death. And it's not, it's not in a panicky way. It's not in an impatient way. Just that knowing that like, in a very real authentic way that death is a part of life. It's sort of the thing that it is the thing that makes me question like, is the day I'm about to live, the day I actually want to live, and if not, I'm going to make the changes. But if it is then great. And that's sort of how I now map my life. And the things I want to do, and the impact I want to have, and where I want to spend my my time professionally. Personally, how I want to impact the world, it's all comes through the lens of just knowing that that death is a very real part of life.
Victoria Volk 56:30
So what do you look forward to?
Dan Goldberg 56:33
Everything, everything. I mean, I think, I think that it's like, I look forward to everything, it's like, I have this deep appreciation for the smallest things. And I have, I have like a little gratitude practice where I write in the journal every day, three things I'm grateful for. But I would say even like the, like, the first thing I write every single day is health, just like a given. But I really do like when I wake up in the morning, and I'm able to turn over and put my feet on the floor. I'm already like I've won today because I know that there are people who can't do this, and I'm lucky and I'm blessed. And I'm, I'm fortunate that I'm that I am capable, and that I'm able to do this and I'm, I'm I'm I'm so lucky that I don't have to think about my, my white blood cells, my red blood cells, I'm so lucky that I have. And you know, it goes beyond just cancer like Lucky. I'm so lucky that I don't I have a safe place to sleep, I have food that I can that I can go and eat at any point I have safety, security, food, friends, family like life is life is good. I have I had a friend who lived through significant loss. And he wants told me you know that he believes that life is rigged in our favor. And it's because of things just like the fact that we're able to have this this podcast right now that we're both over zoom, we're not physically together, where we're doing this from different parts of, of the country, and we're able to sit here and we both live through significant loss, we both have lived through our own our own tragedies and, and but yet, we're still here having this like beautiful conversation around the worst moments in our life and how they shaped our life and how they've shaped our perspective. And it's because of moments like that, that, you know, that we are we are in many ways lucky, you know most besides the human race, I don't think any any other animals capable of sitting here and actually understanding and comprehending and having this conversation this dialogue around the worst moments in our life and how they've shaped our perspective. And that in and of itself is like a beautiful thing. And I think that since he's told me that it is something that I really do embrace and believe that life despite what I've lived through the fact that I'm still here right now having in this moment is all it is like enough and it's that and it and it's moments like these where I realized that life truly is rigged in my favor and that there is so much to be grateful for and that there is so much to live for. And as my mom put it there's so there's plenty of glory and that doesn't mean you know that I'm walking around sitting here like all sunshine and butterflies and life's perfect Whoo. It's you know, there's there's plenty of hardship and there will be more hardship i remember turning my mom when when we when she moved to hospice care of telling her like, you know, life is at least now I this was the lowest low I'll never hit a lower low again. And she told me don't be so naive. There will be there'll be worse things in our life that will that can and will happen. And you know, I think that true and it's funny too. Now looking back even just from saying that, how different that is from when my dad first tried to shelter me from the painful realities of life. But, you know, it's like, there's so much truth to that, just because you've lived through one loss just because you've had heartbreak, whatever your losses, whether it be a job or relationship, there will be worse things in our life that will ultimately come. And that's just a part of that's a part of living. But there is plenty of there's there's so many beautiful things and so much to wake up and live for. And I think that death has given me this perspective that there will always be bad. It's inevitable, but there's equally so much good, and so much, so much great to live for. And that sort of I guess where that is, that is where I, I sit, I guess now, looking back on what I've lived through, and how I how I live my life today,
Victoria Volk 1:00:52
That can be a really depressing thought, you know, when you think of people, I just want to elaborate on this. Because when people have experienced something that they think is the worst, right, the worst has already happened. And can get really wrapped up in that emotion of that thinking the worst has already happened. And they can get very depressed and down and things like that. But to have the awareness and the cognitive understanding that, well, gee, there really could be other worse things that can happen to me. It's like, well, what's the point of living? Right? But the importance of that. And I think the distinction of your story is that it's who you surround yourself with. And that is why it's so important to find community that you don't grieve alone, so that when those future things happen and occur, you have a foundation of support. And you sought out therapy, which is which is amazing for a 20 something to choose that for himself and a young male, right. So it's, it's the action that you've taken, and the love that you've allowed yourself to receive, that will help you face those future challenges.
Dan Goldberg 1:02:07
Yeah, I really, you know, I said it before, like my, my extended family, but certainly without a doubt the, the community that I've found and surrounded myself with is I wouldn't be where I am today with without, without those people and without that community. I definitely, I definitely would say though, I could see how it could be depressing, you know, but it is it is very, and it's not to say that there's like a right way or a wrong way. I think with grief loss can't like can't like any of this stuff. You know, it's like it's messy. Yeah, it's very messy. And I think that there's no right or wrong way. If if if when someone you love is diagnosed with cancer, if you want to turn to, to God and religion great, like you need to find what will what will give you the support that you need to sort of support those people and move forward. And there's like I said, there's no right or wrong way. But I do think that there is Yeah, I just think like I rather live in grounded in reality, knowing that life Life is messy. Right? There's no, there's no guarantee that tomorrow will come for any of us. And I think I think that and I know we didn't really touch upon it on this episode, but like, I think the intentionality and intentional with your life is so important. And I think that that's one of like the greatest gifts that grief has shown me or given me. I think, again, like it's not like I'm over here thinking, life's sunshine and butterflies and everything is amazing. But I'm also not down here where it's like, this sucks, and there's no purpose and it's, it's that I'm very intentional with how and where I choose to spend my time now as a result, knowing that, you know, tomorrow's not guaranteed I think about it with like, even my my dog or my, my wife, it's like, put the phone down and go out on go out on a date. And just be with one another because we have this moment here right now. And we should embrace this moment because it's it is just the reality that we don't know that there is no guarantee that that moment will be available again next week or tomorrow. And you know, that's that's why it's very frustrating when you see people who are so focused on you know, maybe stuck stuck in their phone just texting away, and they're not physically wherever they wherever they are, whether it be a wedding or a hike or with friends. Or if you're getting like stuck on focused on little things in life that don't really have grand that don't have like significant impact in your life and you're so focused on the stupid the stupid thing. It's like, you know, we don't know that tomorrow is a guarantee. So just be physically be be be here, be here right now. And embrace them embrace this moment and You know, going going back to just be be intentional. That's like the one thing that I try to encourage anyone and everyone, if you're, wherever you are in your life, I really don't believe that, like, age has an impact with intentionality. I think if you're in your early 20s, try to try to develop a way to become intentional with how and where you want to spend your time. If you're in your early 50s Like, and you've been living your life a certain way for the last the last 50 years, you if you want to make changes, because you now recognize something, you know, be the intentionality I think is so important in in our own lives. And I think that that's, that's like the, that is one of the biggest things that grief has has shown me.
Victoria Volk 1:05:38
I love that. There's a quote I actually just wrote came across it yesterday, and I wrote it down, it says, if it's out of your hands, it deserves freedom from your mind to like that. I even knew Ruth said that. And that's just like, that's with worry, that's with, you know, anything that's out of our hands, right? Like, what will happen tomorrow is out of our hands. It's what's going to happen is going to happen. And but we what we have control over is the actions we take. Right? Yeah, intention we bring to each day. Intention has come up a lot for me lately.
Dan Goldberg 1:06:18
Yeah, like intention where? I, you know, I, I'm curious if you see this or from like, I think a lot of people especially, I think both young and old, I don't think it really skews one way or another. I think older people, I think young people aren't intentional. I think prior to my dad dying, I certainly wasn't, you know, like, the most important thing in my life prior to my dad dying, was going to that college party getting drunk and having a good time. I had zero intention in my life. After my dad died. It sort of opened things up. When my mom died. I became Mr. intention that was really like my focus. And I think if you're young, and you start to focus on like, how do I want to spend my time on this earth, it can sort of push you in a direction because I think when you're young, you're told typically, like, You should do this, or you have a teacher, a professor, a friend, a family, friend, a parent tell you, I did this. So you should do that. So there's, there's not really this intentionality when you're young, because you're just sort of following what you're told. And I think as you get older, you have your sort of mindset set up that this is how life works. This is, this is what my life looks like, I've done this for the last this all you know, I've done this for the last two decades. I'm not going to change my life now. And I think as you get older, you don't necessarily have that intention as well, because you get set in your own ways. So I think like everyone can do a better job at being more intentional. And, again, for me, it's like, that was the gift that grief gave me this understanding of intentionality, and how it can shape my life differently now as a result, but I think everyone can, can do a better job with being more intentional.
Victoria Volk 1:07:51
I almost think intention might be the antidote for fear. Because how many of us, us, I'm in my 40s, you know, 40s 50s and older, don't make those changes, or are afraid to make those changes, right. I think fear is a huge driver for a lot of people. And so would you rather have fear be your driver? Or would you rather have intention? Be Your driver?
Dan Goldberg 1:08:20
Yeah it isn't. You know, that. The other thing? That's funny, is that just just about fear specifically about fear, it's like, then you think about it through the lens of of grief and loss. You know, it's like.
Victoria Volk 1:08:32
End of dying, right?
Dan Goldberg 1:08:33
Yeah. So you know, that's, that's where I go back to where it's like, well, knowing that I could die, what do I really have to lose? What am I really scared of? Is there really, should I really be fearful right now? Or is it or, and, you know, it's, it's like, I don't think there are things that are scary, and you, you shouldn't be scared. If you want to make some drastic change in life. It might be it would be weird if you weren't. But you you need to be able to get to a point where I'm scared, but I'm going to do it anyways. So I think that's, you know, it's like, those are the things those are the little, the light, I think that grief sort of gives you.
Victoria Volk 1:09:07
And if you change your intention to getting out of your comfort zone, I need to stretch myself, I need to expand like this is going to stretch me this is going to grow me this is going to elevate me in some way. Right? We don't grow. And if we stay in our comfort zone 100% I think that's what grief really does is it it just it blows us up. It just blows up our world in our life. And it's just a matter of gathering up the pieces and putting it back together but with intention of what we want that to look like going forward.
Dan Goldberg 1:09:42
100% agreed.
Victoria Volk 1:09:44
Yeah. Is there anything else you'd like to share?
Dan Goldberg 1:09:48
No, I think I really enjoyed this conversation. And I think we covered we covered a lot over the last hour plus and yeah, any other questions you have for me?
Victoria Volk 1:09:58
Where can people find you if they'd like to connect with you and listen to your podcast.
Dan Goldberg 1:10:02
Yeah, I am on Instagram @danlevgoldberg, D A N L E V Goldberg, G O L D B E R G. And you can connect with me at bitsofgold.com.
Victoria Volk 1:10:02
And I'll put the links.
Dan Goldberg 1:10:19
Awesome, and I'm on LinkedIn as well. I think it's just, I think, I think I'm just Daniel Goldberg on LinkedIn.
Victoria Volk 1:10:24
I'll put the link in the show notes.
Dan Goldberg 1:10:27
Okay, cool.
Victoria Volk 1:10:28
All that you mentioned. And I thank you so much for being here and for living with intention and bringing that intention to the work that you're doing, at the camps to wherever life takes you moving forward. So,
Dan Goldberg 1:10:44
Appreciate that.
Dan Goldberg 1:10:46
And remember, when you unleash your heart, you unleash your life. Much love.