What Makes a God, a Real God? w/ Benajmin The Dream Wizard

Hey there, did you know that this podcast as a supporters club. By becoming a supporter of the show, you gain access to exclusive content and play an active role in helping me to continue producing the content you love.

See the link in the episode description for more details.

Now let's get.

Back to the episode. The Eye.

We call on the waves, the loud and right by the same long we stand.

As one.

Beau boy Catlin hand stripe down the phone, protect this land, Oh it all, Father, secular voice, So guide our souls to the sacred rhythm.

Friend, Queen of the hot fun home with love and grace.

Make a soul.

Just with your eye might.

Guide of food.

The topis nights Hell, the mistress of life, Fanta, show us.

The pap with every breath. Pray upon us love.

And what we honor you know and forever more.

Wos to lisas we.

Call the rooms we see showcals, hustles, ride, don't jail us, We say, Las, flight away, locals, hagger.

Last Naas we see our spirits.

Rise on the winds, Las spring it sun Gema, we must boos the last.

We must welcome. Welcome back everyone to the Gray Range, Pagan's podcast. At time of recording. I literally just got home myself a drink adubbie. Yes, this is product placements. These these people actually pay me if you buy ship from them using my coat stiff fox ten. Get the shilling done right away. Oh yeah, I have my kiddy co hosts with me, of course, as those my guests. Tho Wields the dream Wizard himself, who I've had on once before and I've been on your channel once before.

Here is uh, it's got full of his claw marks to go. What do you do? He's gonna be all in the face. He's so needy. He does this when I'm laying down and go to sleep too. He puts his face on. Mind. We rescued him when he was well, my wife did. When he was a crying, starving, tiny little kitten in a bush, been separated from his from his mother, and we, you know, nursed him and fed him and he just he loves to cuddle. Never gets enough. Little separation anxiety.

I'd imagine, Yeah, I imagine, I imagine. So that's common among rescues. Turned down my mic a little because I'm getting some feedback, but yeah, welcome, Welcome to the show once again, Ben.

Yeah, good to be back. Always fun to talk to you.

Have you?

I mean, last time we did the whole dream thing on like nothing dream analysis but like, you know, what does a dream? What does it mean? On my channel? We went for two and a half hours or something like.

We like that.

We I talk a lot, You give me a roll and I can't stop myself. Well, speaking of which, I was telling you a story before we get started. If you want to, yeah, continue, I'm scatter brain, which I think is part of my secret sauce, part part part of what makes me able to do what I do. And so you know, for a while there and I haven't given this up. I just haven't had a dream analysis in a while, so I'm like, what am I gonna fill my time with? I need to work on

Who cares?

It's stupid, but it's like, ooh, who's gonna have a baby with next. It's kind of a celebrity thing, and I'm like, you know, whatever, my mouse out of the way God. Anyway, So that line is from a Rudyard Kipling poem, and I've done several Kipling poems as my AIAI radio song. So what happens with each poem is in a way it kind of speaks to me and it says this is this fits the style of the poetry, fits a specific genre. So I just did one for

AI music.

It's amazing.

It is.

I mean, the intro that I'm that I have been using for the last few shows, someone made a new intro nice Queen of Blades goes by improper Ascension on Twitter. Sweet he actually did a like a whole room goth themed song for me, like and he he created it using AI ruins of the ancients, and it's it's an amazing song. It is really cool. You know, it's up tempo, it has that, you know, that that metal vibe that

Yeah, I also do this is just making me think of other other stuff here too, so I've for my Dreamscape show, I do use a piece of custom music created by a digital artist musician friend of mine, and he gave me four He wrote it for me and gave it to me, So that's Fanta, and I've used some of his other works. He's like, use whatever you want. And luckily he didn't. He didn't claim anything, and no one's claiming it on his behalf, so I get away

I have to catch up on those streams I've been doing.

Story it is. They did a really good job, don't nod. I've played some other other games or the games that they've been involved with, and they're pretty good at storytelling. So it's nice that there's a But anyway, I wrote a customs. This is what actually got me into doing

The Gray Horned Pagan's podcast is proudly sponsored by Dobbie Energy.

So what exactly is Dubbi and what is dubby all about? WI is a clean energy drink that is made to give focus with no crash, jitters, or angst. Like other energy dreams. They also have no melted extreme fillers and do not use.

Artificial Guyswie contains vitamins, amino acids, a neotropic and one hundred and fifty milligrams of a theme. So whether you are a gamer getting ready for a long session, you are a athlete getting ready for hard workouts, or just leave that extra dub is where it's ads and with my codes stink Fox ten you can get eight discounts on your entire shopping basket.

That is steink Fox ten forub Energy. Thank you again so much tob Energy for sponsoring the.

Podcast, Wrong Vibe, Wrong Vibe. So it of course it had to be punk rock. So I'm like, okay, well give me and had to look for keywords that that would make Suno behave the way I wanted it to and give me that punk rock song. And what were some of the lines. It's a so grind the skyline, pop, the sickest tricks, living like a rock star to get my kicks, no time for ordinary where rebels and we're free in this neon LT nightmare. We refuse to face defeat. That was great lines, great lines.

I definitely enjoyed that, Thank very much.

That's something I also added now to the to the AI channel is a playlist of all my music videos people want to see when they just game. I just take game trailers on on YouTube and again edit them for time and content and pacing for the because you want you want scene changes that go with the music. You want if the music slow and slow before a build up, you want slow pands, you want slow zooms, you want static shots, and then when it kicks in

I get it, you can get it, which is you know, the AI stuff is actually a nice segue into you know what I asked to hear, you know on the back on the show for is well, let's let's call them made up gods, because I had this, this discussion with a friend of mine the other day, the same guy who made my intro actually, and like I am a big fan of Ruinscape, like the mmor BG RuneScape. I've been playing it on and off ever since I was twelve.

So like for the last that was ancient when you got into it. That's back from the mid nineties, I think, right.

The whole concept and everything. Yeah, I believe it was like developed in the in the neies and like really good popular graphics. Two thousands.

Have graphics improved and kept up a little bit, or is it still kind of JANKI and all.

The bends if you play RuneScape three or old school RuneScape, because they they reboot it or rebooted, redesigned the two thousand and seven servers.

Okay, gotcha, because.

So many people, you know, they didn't like the progression of RuneScape. You know, they when it was like actual RuneScape. What's that old school RuneScape? You know, they started playing that, and then that started to develop, and the graphics got better, of course, so that they found an old an old copy or like an old backup on a hard disk, and they asked their community. They asked their pratayors like, hey, like, would you want us to reboot this again? And yeah,

Yeah, I've kind of contemplated some things like this before. So two things immediately came to mind. And there's a there's a concept that gods are real or empowered to the extent of the number of followers that they have. And that's that's both what am I trying to say, figurative but also very real. I mean, like in terms of real life behavior, and the more people believe a particular thing, the more people behave a particular way. So you could say, you know, a specific type of God

Yeah, that's a lot of thoughts. I know it's very, very elaborate, but.

I get it.

And you know, I took RuneScape as an example because it's the best one that I know.

Were you playing RuneScape when you when you have that thought, you're like, oh, I wonder about to look at the gods in this game the kind of inspiration.

Watch a lot of RuneScape content creators and it's it's very popular. I think the the one with the most subscribers that might be spark Mac. I believe he is like well on his way to five hundred thousand subscribers. Ninety nine percent of his content is old school rooms Cape content, Like he'll do some other things every now and then, but old school RuneScape is his well, literally

It's true.

I didn't even do this on purpose.

That's why again, Off the Gray had to become Gandalf the White before he could back off worm Tongue and save the King of Rohan. Yeah, that's what the worm Tongue thought. He was being clever. Gandalf Storm and Crow the Gray. You have no power here, Oh the Gray has no power here. I ain't gray no more. Motherbuck throws off a rope. Yeah, yeah, shit. He came back with a new power, a new focus. That's a power.

Yeah, it's oh wonderful.

I love that. I love it, But I interrupted just aslutely.

But like even in you know, stories like the Lord Lord of the Rings, like just there will building alone that you know Tolkien has put put into it, you know, the silmar really in the hobbit that the Lord of the Rings, it has become a world in a way. And also because he you know, he pulls so much from Catholicism, from Norse paganism, Celtic paganism. You know, it's it is all all real in a way. But like also what I was thinking, you know, there are horrible

But took another young child out to the forest and like attempted to kill them or sacrifice.

Like something that yeah, like the slender Man does in you know, the lore that is created around him. Yeah, they made it very very real. But Slender Man and you know his his stories are absolutely made up. But still it was real enough for them that they thought it worthy enough to you know, to do those despicable things or try those despicable things. I don't know if

Jo exclusive discount with micron pots and Rayhorn.

Sar Woods dot Com Cubood Beverage just creates c F seltzers.

Crafted with full SPECTACBD to provide the balanced calming effects and all produce stress ease, tension, promote the sense of well being without any intoxic effects.

Say or same mobiles of the recognized by Forbes A number one.

Severs and use fast lower potency or shus s S refreshing way to unlamlicious.

So to Shimo Works dot com for your full spectrum CBD seltzer and use Coach Rayhorn for thirty percent off any products.

This is an exclusive discount, do.

Not go to anywhere else. Shimmer Roots of dot Com Coach ray for.

Amazing fruity, delicious fu spectrum CBD Seltzer.

Thank you to Shimmer Boots that Words.

For sponsoring this episodes as much as ideas sorry as much as emotions have the ability to grip us and move us, ideas do as well. I was just thinking as you were talking the idea of you know, or the concept of ideas being viral, and it's what we refer to as you know, mimetics, that these almost like genetics, these ideas, good ideas, successful ideas, powerful ideas, very bad ideas, that they can all transmit from one person to the next.

Wow, that was a cardboard box. Okay, do you heard like clock in the background either, Well I heard something, Yeah, yeah, that's some stud of freaking cardboard.

Hi. Yeah it is. It's a thick one of the Amazon delivery boxes or something. And I just put a blanket in it, you know. I I have little spots for the cats to rest all over the place, Like you can see u right right above above my head. Here's a little cat tree. They use that sometimes. And

Yeah, oh so darling, but he passed out, like, you know, speaking of cats, speaking of pets, Like I'm I I can turn this into a segway. Uh No, it's all such a good podcaster. Uh But for like I've seen that example with with dogs, but I think it's just pets in in general. Cats maybe a little bit of a different story, but at the very least for dogs. You know, we are gods. We are almost these immortal beings like you know the dolves for that manner, Like

Oh yeah, I mean anywhere from you know ten yeah, ten to twenty twenty five.

Yeah, so about the same as as cats. And the average lifespan for us mortal humans is like eighty so yeah, like we live a good four times longer.

Like the comparison too, is you know that, you know, humans to animals is kind of like elves to humans. They and if you look at that Tolkien, I mean they kind of look at us as like these short lived, not very wise, very impulsive creatures that need you know, need their wisdom and guidance. Yes, some of us are more like dwarfs and others are more like else you know, it's true. It's true. I've always identified with George. Speaking of video games too, I haven't played an MMO of

I was.

I was on a PvP server, but I did the role play thing and I typed in a in a faux you know, Cockney Scottish type of r medi iritish dwarven voice that was pretty silly. I had to give that up because I was playing like twelve hours a day, and you can't do get to be you know, I didn't get a lot done during that time period. You guys, I was going to school too, so I was like, you know, that was most of it as well as like this was my hobby between classes and homework.

So yeah, anyway. No, but I understand, like you get lost in those, in those kind of games. I have a tendency as well. But like, yeah, so for you know, for paths, for our paths, you know, we are almost goths. We are these you know, like greater beings. You know, we don't have to hunt. We can just open something up with light insight and it's cold insight and there's food there. Yeah.

How with the magic of operating the handle on a door. They have no concept of a handle and how it latches that we can just take this wall and make a hole in it and we can go out through the hole. How did you do that? That's amazing?

No, exactly, So you know, those for you know, the average animal brain, those are almost like divine powers for sure. So like divinity, I guess it is very subjective in a way, you know, or yeah, yeah, some I don't know.

It depends, I guess on a lot a lot on how you conceptualize these things, because I think most maybe say noormies or folks who are who are actively religious, you know, to say Christians specifically, and they're like, no, this is a real entity, a real being, God, God exists, and maybe it's not a man in a robe, but that's a nice conceptualization that makes it more relatable to us.

Yeah, they they want that tithing, you know.

Yeah, that was my conundrum way back in the day. And I don't know that I've resolved it exactly. I think I have a better idea of what I think God is, and I think it is there, and I think it is something. What exactly that something is we may never know. So I'm comfortable with that.

You know.

They say it's the ineffable, it's something which can not be described. The Buddhists say that about the doubt it is. It's just the way it is, the way things are, and you either flow in harmony or you try and swim upstream. But man, you're gonna get tired and the stream is going to carry you anyway. So yeah, a lot of my a lot of my you see, is talking about, you know, trying to harmonize with with with the natural way things work and then you get the

Your your It sounds and sounds like like me ten years ago, you know, like I I believe there is something I just don't know what it is. And then I you know, I stumbled upon the uh, the pagan path, and I'm like, oh, well this is it.

Yeah, there you go. If those things speak to you and give you meaning and if you find you're able to better and a lot of the proof is in the pudding. So they say, like the Bible is basic instructions before leaving Earth. It's okay, that's clever, that's just cute, But it is. Yeah, that's what it's. Whether it is or is, and that's what it's meant to be. This these stories are meant to be informative, instructive, you know, and and all the all of the above. So I was going somewhere with that.

I forgot every Yeah, no, I mean it's the same thing with the poetic at Us, same thing with the Purse at Us, same thing with the with the Havamal, same thing with you know, all the all the difference. Stunzas like they're not religious texts. Like every time I speak to her, Christians like, so like, what are your religious texts? Well, we don't have any. Okay, it does

That that reminds me what I'm going to say. The key phrase being a proof is in the pudding type of thing. Is like, if a given story, your set of stories, or let's say one story describes a true thing, and you can use that information to successfully navigate a similar situation in your own life and come out of it with the best possible outcome, even if that outcome is tragic because it can't be avoided. Maybe you minimize the damage that kind of thing, or you avoid a

Necessarily be resolved.

Which one is it? Yes, it is both.

I want to say a big thank you to the sponsor of today's episodes. Bare Knuckles, the best leather gloves ever made. Experience ultimate and durability with the Bare Knuckles patented design, crafted for the natural curve of your fingers, perfect fits and superior protection. These gloves are engineered for superior comfort, reducing hand fatigue and increasing productivity. Made from premium leather, they offer exceptional durability and protection ideal for

They are the best gloves on the market.

So go to buy barre knuckles dot com use coat gray Horn at checkout for a fifty percent discount of your entire purchase. Thank you to Bare Knuckles for sponsoring this episode.

I love that. I love that Yin Yang too. It's like we're all, you know, comprised of opposites in a lot of ways, and they just have to coexist. This is just one of those things. Yeah, no, it doesn't make sense. Yes, that's the way it is. Deal with it.

Yeah, no, absolutely, And I think you're you know, you're definitely making about the point, like it doesn't matter whether you know the stories are literal, you know, literal, allegorical, metaphorical, it doesn't matter. Like it's about the teachings, you know, it's about like what do you do with those stories? What do you do you know, with the with the characters and the you know, the shit that they go through. What lessons are you taking out of them?

And we can get that from pure fantasy novels like Lord of the Rings. I mean, no one has to believe Gandalf and Frodo ever went on a on an adventure, but they can read the story and see things that not just entertain but in form and kind of give a perspective on more than anything, gives us people to aspire to emulate in that way of like, you know, I want to be more like this guy because he

Ah.

I know you're feeling it with I got the chills. That's well, there's another scene like that this I get the same feeling from you. Remember the Toby Maguire Spider Man.

There's not enough to be argued on Twitter.

Right. You can find an argument about anything if you're looking for it. It keywords, some stuff.

That's why I stay away from the platform as much as possible.

Really, yeah, I argue less with certain people. Like if I make a point and someone comes back with an irrelevant response that's kind of insulting. I just respond with the jiff that says, understandable, have a great day, They're not gonna whatever. That's so annoying. Thank you.

When people do that, that's so fucking bad.

I mean, I'm I.

I am a millennial, but I I at certain times just like very much like to give them just the boomer thumbs up.

There you go, the kid at the nineties computer.

Or yeah, that's that's even better.

Just oh yeah, one of one of my favorites. Well, well, that that expression and that that thumbs up and makes me think of I think his name's Chao Yun Fat and he's playing in some Chinese eight nineteen eighties police drama and he's in a wheelie chair and he pops around a corner. He's chewing on some food. He's like like whatever, whatever, dude, you do you cool story?

Bro? Yeah?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like there's just I think I've learned lately who is or is not worth arguing with sometimes? You know, it used to be I would argue with anybody about anything because I was searching. And then once I started finding answers, then I stopped arguing with people about the things that I think I've got to handle on. And now I just say certain things that I think

Not recommentative people, you know, the actually like those guys.

Who they are guy, yeah, yeah, yeah, And I'm like, you're not wrong, but that's really and then you then you throw up the jeff missing the point as it flies overhead.

Yeah yeah, no exactly. I see those those people a lot. You know, we had one the other day in the roundtable, I'm often on with Bush Whisper Shaman, you know, like he took one comma. Then it's like, so nobody's gonna question this if you all think it's normal that this person does that. And he's like, bro, that's that's not that's not what it's about. You know, you're looking to argue. You're looking to, you know, like make the life at end the life round table, because we see the chat happening.

Yeah, And I'm unfortunately, I think I've probably been that guy in the past when I'm trying to when I have been seeking to better understand what those aphorisms actually mean. Yeah, I've been to the get go wait a minute, that doesn't really cover all bases, like yeah, but it's then I had to personally get to a point where I was like, okay, but it's true for most cases. And then also the idea of like there are some people who are like, you know, I say, oh, here's the rule,

But anyway, yeah, yeah, never wanted to be a father, so you just took in.

A bunch of cats instead, pretty much.

Yeah.

No, I still have a you know, lots of you know, love and compassion to give, and I still you know, hope to mitigate the suffering of creatures that are around me. And you know, I don't you know this. And that's the other thing too, is people get really hung up on some of their specific beliefs and they're like, well, if you don't want what I want, then there's something

I mean, I I am a I am a father. I have a you know, I have two kids, well three if you if you count firefight her son as well. I trying the best that I can from a distance. Yeah, being a parent is absolutely fucking terrifying because you know, you you find out that you know, your parents too, had no idea nobody was hell they were doing. They know to feed you, they know to clothe you, they know to clean you, they know that try not to drop you on your head. Yeah, for example, although I

That's true. I hit rock, sliding glass doors. I probably get a lot of head trauma for as a kid. None of it my parents fault.

I would like to extend a major thank you to the sponsor of today's episode of Fuera Coffee Discover of Fueria's Coffee vibrant flavors from certified Rainforest Alliance farms in Central and South America. Enjoy rich, smooth and aromatic bruise while supporting sustainability taste excellence with every sip. Use my promo code Greyhorn for a exclusive discount of fifteen percent of any purchase. As many of you know, I do like my cup of coffee in the morning, just asked

Most of it may be one, okay, one example, I was like five years old. Maybe my parents are like, let's go to the Hoover det. Well, my dad mostly my mom's kind of comes along. It's like, so, my dad's an engineer, the civil designs towers. When so he's got a big fascination with the Hoover Dam, huge magnificent project, and he wanted to take his kid to go see it.

Yeah, people kids like at the same time, you know, look at that that you know baby in your arms. He is he is totally your baby. You know he's your baby now?

Yeah, he is. I just need them to kind of take care of themselves. Mostly this. I'm not even a dog person because they need too much tension, Like I can't yuh, the only dog you know, you might have seen it in the past. I had that little little white dog, Peanut. He would sit in my lap sometimes. He mean you may or met it.

Well.

He passed a while ago. He had a he had issues and he had to go. So I hope you're okay. It's neither it's okay, It's okay. I'll keep I'll keep telling a story here, even even him. I mean, I found myself thinking of him the other day of like, if he was still here, I would need to work about letting him out in the snow and bringing him back in and making sure, you know, he was okay and was he able to go to the bathroom? Does you know are the raccoons out there in the dark.

Yeah, yeah, no's that's all about like sacrifice and self sacrifice as well. You know, to have a strong drive, to have a strong will is to sacrifice the insecurity, to sacrifice the thoughts of what may happen for just fighting for the desired outcome. And that's what that Uber delivery guy. I've seen the story. I have no idea who it is, but you know, on the the odd chances that you are watching now, the odd chance that you are listening, Bro, you are a fucking hero, don't.

Well, and then you ask him and he'll be like, I did I'm not a hero, and that's pretty common of heroes. It's like, this is I don't even see myself in that way. I don't. I don't feel better than I think I am because I did this. They just needed to be done.

So let's let's take that. You know, we were talking about people, you know, the the actually and the what ifs. Let's take that from Let's take that, you know that that comment from the other side, what if he did?

You know?

Agnowlan's like, oh, yeah, yeah, I'm a hero. I know I'm a hero. Does that still make him, you know, a hero if he has the well, let's say that the blown up ego, you know, the or what is its homelander? Is that is that kind of a I've never I haven't seen that.

Did you watch The Boys? Or no?

No, no, I I don't.

I mean I kinda the villain. So and he does have an inflated sense of ego, but they also explain his childhood and how he ended up that way and it's not his fault, but still shits. It's a really good it's a really good series. The latest season was a little Man but that's okay, but.

Like, what if he It's a fair point though, like, yeah, he is a hero for doing that, but as a hero, like aren't you kind of supposed to say, like, you know, it was nothing, it was just you know, I think we liked I did it because I don't even know why I did it, Like it was just an instantaneous response, a reaction like I saw someone in trouble, I knew there was trouble. I just went out and do it.

I were moving just did Yeah. Yeah. I think there's a bit of a trope again of the quintessential hero also being humble and saying no, no, no thanks are necessary, no, no parades, no, no glory. I don't really think I'm all that great. We kind of like that he's humble too. But if you know, if someone did something heroic and someone said you're a hero, and he's like, you're right, I am. That was pretty damn heroic. I'm proud of myself. I don't think that takes anything from it. I think

Maybe it is because I, ah, just yesterday, yesterday evening, I started watching you know, like speaking of you know, the Great Gods, and I started watching Hercules the legendary.

Journeys with Oh those were fun back.

In the day.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, like the off Xena and then Hercules and Zina got together in some episodes. I watched all that shit in the nineties, I did.

I mean, I have, like I can't remember like snippets of it. I don't think I've ever watched a full episode, but I you know, just see everybody who's absolutely lyric about it, like, oh, that was so good, and like now I'm watching it and the cgi is absolutely fucking horrendous.

Oh it's terrible. And if you're growing up at all, they really were for kind of kids and teenagers in a way. Yeah, but it's a little campy and goofy and it's silly and that makes it fun too. You get some of the over the top characters like Aries I think was in there, and he was you know, he's got this long dark hair and his beard or mustache or whatever. It was very full of himself.

Like I'm still like finishing up a season one, like they're forty five minutes episodes is pretty long.

Actually yeah, they were hour long with commercials of forty five minutes.

Again yeah, yeah, uh for sure. The the what is it the Toga salesman from Believe like episodes to episode three. He's a goofy character. He's kind of like the annoying sidekick character. But that that makes it fun. But where I was going with this, it's like I noticed that in the in the show, it's like he knows he's Hercules. Everyone knows who Hercules is, even if they you know,

Yeah, yeah, that's that's interesting too, because then we think of our say, you know, firemen specifically, because that guy ran to the house, and when the firemen wouldn't, they're like, that's dangerous, we can't. It's you know, our our policies and procedures say, when a house is that engulfed, you don't go running. Anga's pregg going to die or get injured. And we don't require that. We want them to be

Sure, I mean, I'm open to That's where we get the the well known phrase, you know, you either die your hero or every long enough to see yourself become the villain, right. Sure, it's you know, it's true, and it's it's hard to stay humble, you know, especially when you're you know, becoming more well known and the praise gets more or you know, more people start to praise you.

You got a million people telling you how awesome you are here like, you know, maybe I'm pretty awesome. Yeah, you know, Like I don't think I ever wont a million followers like anywhere ever. Ever, I don't want to be that. I don't want to be I want to be successful. I don't necessarily want to be famous. That's kind of what I'm shooting for.

It's their, hm, can you be one without the other?

I don't know, that's I mean, I just assume you when you went hmm, I'm like, you know what, You're right, you didn't even have to say it. I'm like, maybe they go together. Uh, maybe that's the only way for you know, good because a hero comes well, that's ok okay. So there's there is the act of heroism, and that defines a hero as well, but there's also an element of renown. There's that idea of becoming then well known

I mean, I guess Batman and both Superman to take you know, the the two main.

Ones and then Wonder Woman, the Holy Trinity as they say.

Sure, yeah, yeah, like all those you know, like the yeah, I mean, I guess there are the Big Three, if you.

Will, the Big Three. Yeah. I just threw him in there because there's actually a there's actually a book I think, which is about them.

They all live double lives, you know, they're not Yeah, like full time hero if you will. It's a good thing to think of with the secret identity thing. It's not just protecting the ones around you so that villains don't target your family, but but it's also one way to keep yourself humble. Is like most interactions you have with people as your alter egos, secret identity, they don't treat you like anything special, and you're like, Okay, this

Go home. And then the last thing it says is that you know, if you do it just right, no one will be sure you've done anything at all.

I love that.

I kind of love that. That idea of that's like the ultimate and humility in a way is like, I'm only concerned with the outcome. I don't care if anyone knows I did it. And as much as I don't live up to that, I would like to. I'd like to be that kind of person that is absolutely so divorced from praise that it doesn't even matter. The problem with that, then is you, in some ways get divorced from criticism, which you kind of need to because nobody's perfect.

No.

No, A very small minority of people who don't even know you have mean things to say. And I don't know how I would react to that. I mean, I get responses from people that are rude, you know, not that many, and I shine it on and I'm rude back to them and will screw you too. Buddy. I'm not your buddy, pal Joe Pal buddy, right, the flapy heads. I love that, but I have no idea how I

You you turn into a host. The other the other guy, I forget his name, Like they're always mentioned in the same breath, another psychology commentator or a philosophy guy.

Maybe you think of Sam Harris.

But.

He's like the shadow side, like he's in the Red Pill, the former cake boxer.

Thinking about Andrew Tate, Yeah that, yeah, like either you're kind of kind of defending him a little bit.

No, But I think like those are really like polar opposites.

You know, it's like taking again was nothing like Peterson.

You become you become the other. I mean they're both like in the the you know, self help, sure, the psychology, you know, here's how you're you know, how you're a man. You know, the one guy says, you know, just clean your clean your room, bucco, and the other guy says, well, you know, go be a pimp.

Yeah, for sure, or at least to have a strong pimpand one way or another. Yeah. Then you also get into things like what did Dates say the other day? He said something like any man who only has children with one woman is not really a top level alpha or whatever. It's like, I'm misquoting him, So don't don't you know, and don't and I don't endorse that advice necessarily, But there is something to where you an exception to the rule type of thing like I was talking about before.

Convert to Mormonism, moved to Utah. I mean, Mormonism is it's you know, it's a cold as fuck anyway.

Most religions are. Yeah, that's it's very weird. You look at the root of words, and cult is the root word of culture. It is what we all believe in, how we all behave in this group, and we we've you know, words have the denotative meaning. It's it's just it is what it is. It's a small group of

Anyway, But that's that's ah, that's a good one that way before and I never thought about it like that.

Well, like I was probably the Norse gods before it became more and more prolific, you know, And those were the early adopters, the people who kind of figured out the stories or pulled them together from other bits of wisdom. That's what I think the Bible is too, is like a lot of leftover stuff from Atlantis from and here's a weird I've now mentioned that twice. There's a conception among the I also feel like I cut you off. Sorry,

But no, I mean those are all my thoughts.

Yeah, yeah. Cautionary Tales Grimm's Fairy Tales Full of them. That's another book I hope to write some days, A Wizard's Guide to Grimm's fairy Tales. What do these stories actually mean? What is Hansel and Gretel about?

I mean, yeah, there's that's I mean, you know, as a European, as a Germanic European, you know, that's how we preserved a lot of the stories of our ancestors. It's how we preserved a lot of the stories of the lance. We wrote them or weave them into these, you know, fantastical stories. But again, you know, there are lessons in those. Did have something Gretel really exists? Did they get lost in the woods and fight, found a gingerbread house and all of that.

No one expects them to have really existed. Isn't that funny too? They're like, the story is still meaningful, even if that's pure fiction exactly. Then they look at other religious texts and they're like, no, no, it has to be real, it has to be Yeah, you know, are we comparing the grim Tales to the Bible?

Are we on that level of heresy?

Yeah? Yeah, I think I am cool. I think they both now now they I think it would be fascinating and I would love to see someone do this. Let's take a biblical scholar and a and a and a folklore scholar, get them together and have them find other stories that teach the same lesson as the biblical stories. And here's another form of that story, and and where perhaps two independent and and and in some degrees. Joseph Campbell did this with the with the Hero's journey here

I would love to host a debate like that. I actually know of someone, a writer who has a master's in folklore, and.

I would say the idea. Maybe wouldn't be a debate, but it would be like a collaborative effort to identify similarities. And now the debates are fun too, but it can also be like, let's explore the subject and try and figure out how where these things overlap and I would say the biblical scholars could say, well, see that just validates the Bible is true because other people came to

I would love to host.

I help Peo pull that together. Yeah, do it?

Link be so cool.

We'll see, we'll see.

It's going to be such a long term project, though, he could be. That'll be awesome. Kind of going back to the you know, the the cold stuff.

Yeah, I derail that real quick.

Sorry, No, I mean due. You went on in Atlantis and I'm like, oh.

That is okay, right, So do I think Atlantis is real? Yeah, it's probably one of my cookiest beliefs. And reincarnation probably real too. But anyway, yeah, I mean sure.

But like as you said that, you know, Christianity started out as a cult, Islam started out as a cult mythraism. I know a follower of Mithras. I guess it's still kind of considered a cold.

They do refer to it in historical documents anyways, the Cult of Mythris, Yeah exactly. It's kind of like it's a proper title in a way. Yeah.

Sure. But like if you think of modern day cults, you know, the ones that we've all heard about from our favorite here.

The cat didn't mean to snort into the mic. I mean it makes me think of Heaven's Gate. I mean that's, for exople the Marshall Apple White and then a bunch of kids castraight themselves and everyone commits suicides. That's yeah, that's what we think of as a cult. That's not good.

That's no, no, absolutely not. And you know we we we all know the stories. We all have our favorites, you know true crime podcaster who yeah, you know, spoken about a lot of those stories, my favorites. Just because my my wife has become good friends with her. When I after I had her on the podcast Brenda from Horrifying History, m shut out, Brenda. We love you, you good tim like you're shaking the whole damn dusk.

Yeah, I can hear the collar.

Yeah it's okay, Yeah, it was very thing why I gave him the nickname tinkle, tinkle, tmy.

Ah, yep, does he have a bell on there? Or is it just the metal on the collar tinking?

No?

No, let's see.

Can he has a I think I see a little bell? Yeah, a little bell there it is? Yes, yeah, Well that's one way to help you not trip over them. I swear these cats are trying to kill me. They want to cut to the They want to cut to the part where I die alone and they can eat my eyeballs or something.

It's he it's good nurture, right, you know.

And honestly, if they were trapped and nothing to eat, I would want them to eat my corpse. I wouldn't wouldn't bother me at all. I'm dead at that point, so I would go go bonapetite a little little bit. Anyway.

They're roothless, yeah, yeah.

And as much as they nuzzle on us and love us, and and I think to a degree, consider us just big dumb cats that really can't You can't even lick your own butt. How do you take care of yourself?

You know, you don't even hunt? How are you not dead yet?

Right exactly? And that's sometimes that's why they bring us a little little mice and whatnot. They're like, they're trying to feed us like we feed them, you know. Yeah, but still when when it comes down to it and they're like, well that's meat.

You know.

I love he was alive, but he's.

Not getting me any He's not responding, you know, nibble nothing, yeah, bite nothing.

I think eyeball time.

And you know, if you know, if if that's well, there's a saying in Dutch the ansidodes on those of broats, and it like literally means, you know, one man's death, that is none of the men's life. So yeah, if that's if that's the same for ours, why not?

Oh yeah? And I also love that phrase too, like one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. It's like what do you believe? What is your what side of an issue are you on? And then that defines some of these things exactly. Anyway, No, what we do real all over the place. I don't even know what we're talking about. We're talking about stories or something. Yeah.

No, the the cults, oh yes, yes, yes, those those leaders, they are often worshiped as gods, and like, yeah, you could you know, do the strong man argument, like oh, but that's you know, because all of those people are you know, they're they're brainwashed and everything got taken from them,

You know you're not becoming a toxic personality, are you? You're not questioning the word of God?

No.

I listened to I listened to a guy on the internet who he describes it this way himself. He says, he escaped from the Jehovah's Witness cult and he started realizing that a lot of the tactics they use to keep their membership in line and from leaving or from questioning. He notices that. So after he left, he started noticing the mainstream media does a lot of the same thing. They use a lot of the same tactics.

Uh.

An example he gave last night was news commentator said, we're just learning from the New York Times, and he pausited, and he said, this is like when the elders of my church would come back and say, you know, we're just learning from the governing board, or we're just learning from the watchtowered. It's like, you mean, the people you choose to believe told you something, and now you're saying

Isn't that also like kind of one big cult telling us what to think, how to think, what to believe. They're telling us, you know, going back to the comments, what you said, but freedom fighter and terrorists, they're telling us those people are terrorists. You know, they're not freedom fighters, they're terrorists because exactly they're against us, they go against our values. Well guess what to those people, you're the terrorists.

You know.

Yeah, and that leads to a lot of things where there's you know, double standards of like, well, it's not bad when we do it. It's the same behavior, but it's a good thing when our side enacts that behavior. And that also made me think of the cult thing too. It's like whether whether someone has achieved a rational true belief, true true in the honest, honestly arrived at a rational belief in something, or they've been tricked into it, the behavioral result is the same. They act in accordance with

That kind of thing exactly, you know, and especially with you know, authority figures. You know, like we're talking about cold leaders. They are, you know, pretty much authority figures.

Yeah, like they've set themselves up as the ultimate authority.

Over you or your group exactly. Oftentimes you know, also just answering to another higher authority because you.

Know, to me, God said, God, yeah, I don't want to do this. I'm just like you. I'm just I don't really want to sleep with your wife. But I mean, God, Scott, can't this a big God? What are you gonna do?

You?

It's you. It sucks sucks to be me. It also sucks to be what with me? What with me?

I don't really want to do your.

Sure, no, and then you have I believe it was also the New York Times or at least some major publication in the believe that was during COVID times that they literally put out an article like saying, don't do your own research.

Oh, I know, I hate that. I saw that. That's unbelievable.

Are you fucking kidding me? You're not, But we are exactly, you know, you're you're literally telling the people just listen to us. We know the truth. You know, we are the established press. We are the truth. You know, just like the what what they've been saying and sometimes still are saying, you know, the science is settled.

No, it's not.

That goes against what's allience is. You have questioned everything. Science is science.

He's like, yeah, okay, even answers you think you understand, question it again, look at it from a different angle. Exactly. You know, you can't spend your entire life every single day repeating the same experiment, because then you'll never eat or sleep or you know, move on to other maybe more important or useful things. There's all, there's all the

It's that is talkingtive dissonance, that that should be studied, that should be It gets sam into the most minute detail is freedom of speech.

That let yeah, I think that's one of the things going wrong in Europe right now is you know, the EU and and England and whatnot, is there's people who are like, hey, we have problems in our society and we want to talk about them, and the government says, we think talking about him is a bad things. So we're gonna kind of tell you not to do that and maybe put you in there, and you're gonna get it talking to by the police, and I'm like, that is happening. Unfortunately it's it's not.

You know, I I live in Europe.

I live under the rule of the eat you say, I'm sorry, I'll try not to say anything to get you in trouble. I'm an American. Fuck you. I do what I want. Oh my government, My government will come after me too.

America, nutshell, fuck you. I do what it wants, what I want, what I want.

You know.

Speaking of that though, and I come cutting you off again, but I want to to Okay what Trump is doing. This got political. I don't know how I follow all this stuff.

And I it's fine, you know, talking about cults, that's pretty.

Much a cult, no for sure. Yeah, yeah, America the cult. We are cults of freedom and guns.

It's her new novel, America the Cult.

Yes, there you go. But the idea of I think America has become hated around the world because we let our administrative state bloat, and that bloat turned into things like USAID, where we're sending money to open up programs in other people's countries and try and influence their politics and change the way. Now there's Americans who are like look, if we don't use our soft power, who are we giving the world over to? Are we giving it to China,

I don't want That's my fuck.

You attitude is is very much limited to my own borders. I don't think we should be exporting freedom around the world, you know, under bombardment. That's just I think that's what. I can't believe we spent the last year, twenty some odd years invading and occupying Middle Eastern countries. I just I wish none of that ever happened. That's all wrong. I don't I don't agree with that. I don't like it. Well, and many getting more sticky wickets, like what do you

We can do, like a whole separate show. Just those well, I.

Wish they would get along. I wish nobody died and everybody got along. That's not the case. I wish it was the case. So I don't know what this is about.

Beautiful wish and I'm sure you'll win Miss America with that one.

There's an interesting idea. Now, Okay, Trump speaking Trump, he's he's he's talked about wanting to buy Greenland, and yeah, no one, no one knows if he's serious and that's part of his Madman strategies. Is he serious about that? Is he what is he doing? We don't know, So he's like he leaves it vay crazy enough to try. He's he's a bit of a crazy man. Well, then it comes to the idea of well, we're just gonna

We can't have it on some Marvel doctor evil shit.

You know.

Yeah, maybe so. But it's also like it's it's a threat hanging over their heads of like what we better figure this out or he might be serious. The other side of the coin is what if he was serious and we did turn Gaza, say, into the Riviera of the Middle East, and it was full of luxury hotels, beautiful, peaceful city life and apartments, no more terrorism and whatnot, and then the people that they let back in are

That's actually pretty good.

Like if that's as an outcome, it's not bad. That's what I'm saying. You know, I don't like the process. But then as an outcome of like millions of civilians get to come back in and live in peace, not ruled by Hamas, not living in a war zone, and everyone's just chill, and we can put this whole what's seventy eighty years of people trying to destroy Israel. Put that to bed. No more. We don't do that anymore.

We'll just make it another like tourist attraction in the Middle East. I mean, it has all the people who live right there and you know, have a beautiful I've been to Egypt. They are you know, they are beautiful countries. It is a beautiful, beautiful culture. So if we can, you know, like make it a little more more touristy, there's more money in that as well.

Oh yeah, yeah, I think one of the big thing is just I mean, you can't have a neighbor who's trying to kill you all the time and you know, either one on either side. So we've got to put that to bed. We've got to stop that conflict so that no many more, no more people die.

Well, then what is America if not you know, the big brother who's trying to kill you all the time.

Yeah, no, it's true. We don't really like what you did there, so we're gonna bomb your country again. We got to stop doing that. That's not good. That's not good. We've got no leg to stand on when it comes to that. Well, then you get people too who are like, you know, when you try to say, hey, some of the things America did might have led to the conflict in Ukraine, and they're like, why do you hate America? And I'm like, don't hate America. I'm not a fan

As a European I can, I can honestly say that, you know, all the bullshit going on in America, it's good entertainments.

Like that is yeah, yeah, yeah, Well he's hopefully he's wrecking the piece of our government that fucks with other people and then we all get along a lot better. That's what I'm hoping for.

We can hope. But you know, we're we're watching in the Netherlands, you know, watching from the outher side of the ocean, like, oh my god, what the fuck is he doing?

And meanwhile we're still watching. We're watching things like the UK, where you know, Tommy Robinson is in solitary confinement because he doesn't like the idea that certain immigrants are incompatible with English life. If we put it politely, yeah, that's very politely. It's very politely for the EU sensors.

That's the other thing too, just like way too brush.

Where So if America is going to use our soft power and influence, I would like to see it put pressure on the EU and Britain to be more open to the first adopting a first Amendment approach to popular or to political discussion openly and in public.

But we have that in like most at least western European countries. I can't speak for you know, for the rest, but we have freedom of speech. It's it's not just an American thing. And that's that's also so funny with you know, America and all of the things, all of the rules and the constitutions, like, oh, but we have constitutions because freedom of speech. And it's like, yeah, we

Nice and maybe some are better than others, I granted, just I guess I look at the breadth dope of American free speech and like, I think there's less than the American total in Europe and maybe Europeans go you guys go too far. You shouldn't be that free. And I look at it the other way. I think Europe should be more free. I think they should have America we should have more rights to free speech, and Europe should have that much more as well.

But America isn't free.

You're that's that's a lot of way.

That's that's the thing. If you look at it realistically, you're not free. Like you know, the constitutions just this and institution says that, yeah, great, is enforced.

Yep, No, that's a big problem. Well, we've got the Second Amendment says shall not, shall not, shall not be infringed, infringed in any way, little infringe, big infringe, shall not be in. We've got tons of gun laws. Everywhere he goes gun laws. Guns, you can't buy guns, you can't take some certain places. Guns can't hide guns, you have to you're only allowed to purchase if you have a permit from the imagine you have to purchase a permit

Yeah, no, which is which is funny because you know, we we can do a whole lot more than America. But it's it's so funny. America always like falls back on the gun laws.

Oh we can have guns. Yeah we we. I'm kind of proud of that.

We can do too, Like I I can, I can own gone if I want to. I just need a really, really really good reason why. And I don't have a reason why. So how do you But but then, how do you defend yourself? Well I don't.

I don't have to. That's the thing.

I don't have to defend myself.

Well, there's another question there too. Was reading a statistic the other day that since certain migration patterns started to develop, you know, certain rather heinous crimes against people have skyrocketed about like three hundred something percent. And it's not the natives that are that are doing that. I mean, they've

That is very basic human behavior. It's like, hey, you look like me a you know, therefore I'm gonna assume that I can trust you because you.

Know, for the most part, you can. Because they're thinking.

If someone has a you know, a different color, speaks a different a different language that is not even remotely similar to yours, believes in a different god, it's like a, I don't know, I don't know. I don't know you, I don't know your God, I don't know your language. I'm gonna, you know, keep you at a distance, not because I don't trust you, but because I don't know if I can trust you, because I don't know you, because you know, you're not one of my people, which

Freaking spot and they defend it. Yeah, it's very it's pretty basic. Yeah, and then you know the straw man of that is, well, you're just xenophobic, You're just afraid of things that are differently. No, no, no, no, it's that when you have too many differences, there will be conflict. And we're trying to minimize conflict because we want to we want to get along with our neighbors to the degree that we can. And the more similar to you

If anything, the Irish or like it won't make like the whitest people, you know, when it comes to skin tone, they're the whitest, hastiest out there.

Right. Yeah, And actually, we're gonna need to embark on a preservation campaign to keep the redheads from disappearing. I mean, that's that's a that's a human tragedy if red headed women disappeared for your.

Right working on it.

There you go.

My daughter's a redthead, my ex is a red head, my wife is a red hat.

There you go. You're doing the work, will be good.

It's race mixing another you know, very sensitive topic.

Which not controversial at all, which.

Has happened, you know, so many times in history. The Neanderthals, the Genisovians, the you know out say kins. There's a reason if.

You fall in love with someone who's who looks different than you, I don't care. I'm not angry at you know, there's not supposed to get married.

There's a reason why certain groups of people you know still look more like Neanderthals. You know, they have the you know, the big the big four hat kind of you know, flat skull, flat hat. Was this one like Russian dude who was an ambassador or something something that EU or something like that. Dude was massive, you look like freaking you know, Drigo from from Rocky four or whatever. Yeah, you know, I mean it's but like chro magnet style, like like you get yeah, you can pound nails with

It's a millennia go.

But the thing is with a lot of those I've seen those I've seen those stories. I've seen the you know, like infused with those kind of people, a lot of them whose parents are of two different well two different races really, I mean humans have racist Sorry.

It's like it's like types of birds. We got peacocks and you know, I mean, yeah, we're both tiny songbirds and exactly we're.

Both human, but you know, we're still different. But they because they're like half and half, they don't feel you know, let's take the most basic example, like African and European. They don't feel European because you know, they just don't don't look European enough to be European. But they also don't feel African because you know, they don't like look African enough to fit in with the Africans.

And if they especially if they weren't raised in that culture, like, they'll go there and people will be like, well, you're a foreigner. We don't yeah, didn't end up here, You're not.

One of a lot of Unfortunately, a lot of times both sites will say that, you know, the European site will say like, no, sorry, you're not European. I mean, like here's a mirror, you know, look at me, look at you. You're not European. Then they go through the African site and it's like, well, you know, can I then like be with you guys, like I'm you know, half African, my mother, my father, you know, whoever is African. It's like, no, you're You're not African.

So a lot of them feel like kind of stuck in the middle, which is sure, which is sad. Really that brings me back to my point of America. And then you know, in the nineteen sixties we started opening it up. We became more Hispanic and more you know, African migration and China and India and all this kind of stuff. So America is a little a little different when it comes to you know, I want Ireland to stay Ireland. I want Germany or Netherlands to stay the

For it, and then we decided the own people.

So you know, that's the funny. Like that's another thing. I this is a complete tangent to but a lot of people don't understand that when America was founded, it was following years centuries of religious conflict where different religious sects in Europe, it was constant wars and they were almost all of them over religion. And they were not all of them, but but like the significant majority of

But then the funny thing is, you know, if it were the other way around, for example, it is expected that we assimilate, and if we don't, it's like, well, then good luck to you, because either yeah, if we go to.

A foreign country, they're not going to learn English for my sake, They're just not gonna do it. They're gonna be like, tough shit, good luck to you. And that's I kind of feel like that's the attitude we should have as well. Luck then I guess, don't learn English. I mean all the forms are in English, street signs are in English, the driver's licensed test is in English. You're gonna kind of have to adapt exactly.

I mean here in the Netherlands because now we've we've always been a country of trade. You know, we have England just on the you know, the other side of the pond. We have Germany next to us. We have France pretty nearby. It's what is it like, Well, from from where I live, it's maybe a cat's say three three and a half four hour drive and I am south and I am well into France. That's pretty damn short, you know.

It's true, And it's about a three or four hour drive. I'm in California, but but then it's about an eight or ten hour drive to get to Mexico, a huge.

Eight to ten hours far without taking get to Italy eighteen, like if you were driving well into Yeah, no, I've okay, that's funny.

That's that's the thing I've you know, with my parents, I've been lucky enough to explore a lot of the world already, a lot of Europe already a lot of times. Also because it was with three kids, you know, myself, my brother, my sister. We always like had the the mini fan, like the seven eight seedter you know, so perfect for the kids and birthday parties and you could stuff all the freaking baggage in there.

So if it was like.

Italy or France or Germany, my parents would drive that and yeah, that is like a good u A to ten hours.

I mean they were.

Like, if it all goes well, like not too much traffic and whenever we just you know, go south, we are it's just ten hours. I'd say, we're like pretty much in Spain by that time, and well on our way into Uh.

I'm kind of in some ways jealous of that too. It's like, hey, kids, you want to go see the coliseum this weekend and then it only just pop in the car and drive me. I'm like, I got a well plane ticket to get to New York first, well probably Colorado and then New York and then wait and then get on a plane and then land in Italy, and then I got to find a driver and that's.

I mean, I can I'm probably never going. I can go to the airport taking international train. Now with two and a half hours, I'm in Paris.

Mm hmm. Speaking of which, Uh, I hadn't looked at the map in a while, and I'm like, wow, France and Spain especially are huge. I realize how big they were in Germany too. It Germany is much bigger than I thought it was. Yeah, then you get into all the smaller, smaller countries around it and what not. But it's interesting how the how the Balkans broke up, say after after World War two and and certainly the fall of the yeah, Soviet Empire.

And they keep breaking well yeah, and they're like.

You know, we are people of a certain kind who live a certain way, with a certain culture, and these are all my relatives. We just want to be a country. And so they were sharing a country with like three other groups of people, and they said, you know, let's just all be our own countries. And now they did, and it was I think it was fine. I don't know, I need to study up on that. There's probably still a lot of.

Comting there too, but there have definitely been there has been trouble in the East.

There's been trouble. Yeah. No one wants to say like genocide in Serbia didn't take place, that that happened, so yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, like the Balkans. But it's it's funny like you know, in Europe or like western southern Europe, we see that as like just a part of Europe. Like you have Scandinavia in the north. Then you have well the Benelux that is Belgian, Netherlands, Luxembourg, yeah, France, Spain, you know, those are all all their their own and then you have the Balkans, which is you know, all those countries like pretty much next.

To Germany somewhere over there. Yeah, like I.

Would probably have uh, you know, I would probably have trouble pointing out those countries because.

Well, even them, you ask the people who live there, and they're they're kind of fuzzy on the border because they're like, it's never been important we live here, they live there, the border somewhere in between. We don't even care. It's a little fuzzy on their own borders sometimes.

Yeah, no, but I mean that's that's also it's like, come to think of it, that's actually a perfect example of tribalism. You know, it's like, these are our people. We'd like to live with those people. Those are not our people, but they live there, so they can, you know, live there. That's that's fine. As long as we live with our people, you know.

Yeah, I want to see more of that. I want to see more of it, like we just we we're not we're not bothering you leave us a we were going to do our own thing whenever anybody and if people want to be tribal that way, I've called for that. In America, of course, we've got from the history of the settling the country. We created Indian reservations where it's like, okay, you get your own tribal land, and they're actually considered a foreign nation within the boundaries of the United States.

Kind of the idea unfersonally not going as well as we would hope the growth of odin that we have started. It's like, you know, but for the European pagan people, we we've put it under your under the Odanism banner because you know, that's that's something that is recognized, you know, Odinism. Oh yeah, like no, we know what you mean. I mean, there's there's a lot more more to it than just Odinism.

Yeah, yeah, fill out these forms and then wait six sixty eight weeks. Well that that kind of reminds me of that's even happened in America as far as the like we were talking about the Mormons, they're like Jesus, Mormons are crazy. The Mormons like, will screw you, guys, We're going to live in Salt Lake City. We'll let's go do our own thing. And they still they still run Utah. Basically it's they're.

Run so much more. You should fair enough, Yeah, you should listen to Unfiltered Rice with with Heidi love. She is a former Mormon who is now spinning all their secrets. I I had her on on semi recently to uh to talk about cabbage babies and orphan chains. But yeah on Fielded Rice podcast, shout out Heidi. She does like a lot of axe Mormon stuff and they have their fingers everything.

Yeah, I can see that too. That's and that's that's another thing with like the eye, there's there's a nested Russian nesting doll scaling issues of like you know, so the say the Mormons are using their soft power to make to secure their own interest in their homeland, so to speak, but they get their fingers in a lot of pies. And then you've got America doing that on

But like my father has lived here for generations, you know.

Yeah, I mean, and then they have someone just pop in from another country and now they're your neighbor, and you're like, hi, I'm the same as you. You're like on paper. Yeah, not not really.

I've had this discussion briefly with Tom Rauso from Survived to Jive. Man. I'm I'm naming it name dropping everyone.

Name That's good. No, but it's it's.

You know, it's like just because and I compared it to the people from the the Antills you know, a Rubabona. The people from the the Suriname. You know, they just because they have a Dutch passport, a Dutch bank account, and they live here, so they have a Dutch home address, which is like the three main things you need to have for like a Dutch identity or do Yeah, like on paper a Dutch identity.

Yeah, it doesn't make them Dutch, yeah for sure, like yeah, then and then there's yeah, and then the people on the other side say that's no, no racist in Bobak like it's just a funny thing.

It is. They don't even consider themselves Dutch. Like if you ask them, like, yo, where are you from? Yeah, I'm from the Surynome, But I thought you were Dutch. Yeah I am.

When you get that American, how.

Are you from? Like from Surynome, but you are a Dutch? Well because I live here, we.

Get the enclaves, like was it a illin Omar is one of our representatives elected to you know, federal Congress, and she's from Somalia and she lives in a kind of little Somalia in a Minnesota somewhere that was full of a bunch of imported Somali's And when they talk to each other. And you've got recordings of her giving speeches. She says, you know, uh, you know, I'm here to represent my people, and by that she means her Somali community,

Your idea is great, like that is happening in reservation, you know.

Yeah, let's then let's people form their own enclaves. Let's just make it a separate country or something. And then there's people will say, don't give away our land like that okay, fair.

Enough, No, just you know, give it powers, give it away to Bill Gates, Like why don't you that's that's better.

They don't complain about their billionaires. They just don't like ours.

Right, it's not wrong when we do it, No, exactly, exactly no, But that's that's and I mean, yeah, like we we can live as a you know, a world wise collective by respecting each other, like we don't all have to look alike.

I mean, by gods. Please, No, No, if we all look alike, I don't want.

To lose that. I think that's boring. That's like exactly into one bucket.

No, but I mean I get like since they're like dropping names and quotes and and all of that syndrome from the Incredibles picture the Incredibles, if everyone's special, nobody's special.

I had that same thought, so attached to that idea. Now we heard that ten years ago or more. Now there's this new thing they call it the heat map, where they said, you know, how far does your caring about things beyond yourself extend? And one heat map of conservatives is very local, family oriented, small, small group, primary concern.

And if we take care of ourselves, then we are able to keep living in this environment. You know, live in harmony with the environments, because you know, if we don't do those heinous acts, then.

Yeah, I get yeah, exactly. And as much as I don't think anyone should be wantonly destructive, I also don't inherently care about a given patch of desert and a scrub bush and a and a snake and a scorpion living there. I mean, it's I don't have I don't have care for that, even though you could say I would like nothing bad to happen to them for no good reason. You know, that's that's definitely where I'm at.

So that's that's very I mean, that's that's very traditional thinking.

It's very well, you're a pretty heavy conservative side, which is funny because I consider myself someone with one foot planted on both sides of the progress tradition gap. Now there's a lot of people who are naturally more conservative, naturally more progressive. Fair enough, we need them both, I don't think now the extreme extremes are rigidity and chaos, and it's like neither one of those is good either.

Not just the polls that are shifting. There's a there, like I mean, every everything is just you know, what what is up is down, what is left is right. You know, abnormal is normal, gay is straight. It's like everything is the opposite yet somehow it is the same and it should be celebrated. But at the same time, don't celebrate it too much. That's why I.

Yeah, I know.

See even he thinks to say where and he's a cat, like Gofi, he says.

Damn right, yeah no, but cats understand freedom, they value it highly. Can touch me when I don't want to be touched, feed me when I'm hungry, let me outside sometimes you go outside or no, Yeah, he does, he does. Okay, I used to have cats that let outside, and I've been doing that less and less just because I worry about him. You know, I don't want him going over the things and getting him by this.

I mean, he is a Tommy is a he's a tough guy at a big soft tea.

So you know he can he knows how to say out of trouble. Well he's still alive, he must so.

Or he's just very good at you know, I mean, yeah, getting out of trouble or surviving.

Out of trouble again.

Yeah, yeah, I don't know, but he has. He has survived me for the past five years, so that's something, right. No, so, uh geez two and it's again two and a half hours again do.

A half hours? Yeah, I can say I think I think I'm running out of brain. Juice in my ass is starting to get sore. I should probably get him walk around and.

I still have to have dinner.

Yeah right, Oh that's right. He came home and got right got right into this. No, well, we can definitely do it again. I've got a video game stream to get ready for and I got to check this. Uh right, as I was jumping into the chat with you here, I had taken that gunga Din song I don't even know finish. I finished telling that story. Well, it's gonna be an Americana kind of up tempo country.

Yeah.

Yeah, because the way it's the way it's written. It's a guy who's speaking in a very the way he's punctuated it, you can tell it's a lower class British kind of Cockney accent. Ye, he says, you know, he gave me urfa point that that kind of speaking tone.

You can hear.

So that's definitely gonna be a heavy Southern American accent, not pronouncing the g's on n M words type of type of singing style. So I'm excited to go, what what has Sooner produced? It's been sitting there un listened to this whole time, Like, I'm kind of excited to go check that out too. Yeah, no, you you go do that. It's gonna be a great song you won't hear for a couple of months.

So I need to figure out when I'm having for dinner. I mean it's a it's a quarter or two midnight in the meantime.

Might be pizza, pocket time, something in the microwave. I do that a lot.

I don't have. I don't have anything to micro I think have pizza, tostinos, pizza rolls.

I had some of those the other day. They were so good now that I want them again.

I don't think they have something like that. I mean what we have it's more Indomesian, I believe.

I mean that's that's that's.

Like one good thing of you know, being multicultural, you you are exposed to different types of food. That is not to say that you know they should come here, just because of the different types of food.

You know, I do one or two, one or two to bring their food with them. That's fine.

Yeah, you know, I'm not gonna get like the different spices, not just pepper and salts, but you know a lot of different spices as well. It's like, okay, you know keeps.

That's one of the funniest That's one of the funniest things about Like in America, there's a there's a people of colored thing that they say, oh, white people don't know how to spice their food. I'm like, mist you know, we fought wars for hundreds of years over spices. We entries to get spices. Don't talk to me, yeah, I mean in in.

We've even like mates, like just whole sayings with them, you know, like worthier souls or here in the Netherlands, bayer deer like as expensive as pepper, because apparently that was which is the expensive back in the day.

Once upon a time, Once buon a time, like I said, we were fighting wars over pepper. We were we were like, we need spicy food, let's go kill those people. Well they did.

Yeah, I mean that's like, that's that's one of the main things that we brought over, like the Dutchies India company we went to in Sure, we went to the East, what do we bring back? I mean a whole lot of freaking spices. And then everyone other, like everyone back home was like, oh shit, this is good man.

Possibly another discussion for another time, because we keep trying to say goodbye, but both of us can't stop talking. Was it it was the Dutch that became the Afrikaans, right they settled the yeah?

Or was it no? That was that was the Dutch.

And that's not yeah? Yeah? Was that the that's your your people used to be Now they're they're certainly now they're they're their own people. Yeah. I just want to make sure I was getting the country of origin because I couldn't.

Those were the Dutch and Afrikaans. If if you really, if you really try, and they you know, they they slow it down a little, you can almost kind of make out what they're saying. I can, actually I can there it is because it is like since people.

That speak some Spanish or German or whatever thrown in, I can kind of make it out.

Sometimes it is, well, it used to be Dutch because we left and they they actually did well on, like, you know, America and the brit Sleep left them alone. They were like, okay, you got your independence, and now look what you don't want the country.

Yeah. Another another thing about those people is like they didn't displace anyone. They they went to empty land and built cities and and then just kind of did their own thing. And then other people that were local came to live with them because they're like, oh, look they got a city, let's let's go live there. Yeah. And then that's when the thing was, it looks.

A whole lot nicer, the technology is a lot better, they don't look like they're starving, they don't have to get they can grow their own ship. Makes life a whole lot easier and a whole lot better. Let's go live with them and I can.

Yeah, I mean, it's my perspective the the Afrikaans did nothing wrong in anything, you know. So and actually I think Trump just extended to the boer out there refugee status like hey, if you good, feel like your life is a danger and you want to get the hell out of there because it is, come firm in the Midwest, Come come to California. Whatever. The great subject to get into the history of it, so maybe maybe another.

I mean just Dutch history, hell like Dutch colonial history.

Cheesus Okay, such a tiny country that went everywhere. I mean relative to the size of other countries around you. I mean you look at that that that thumbprint next to the you know.

I mean any Dutch East India company or very successful. The company was the first multi national, had its own private army, was basically more powerful than any kingdom.

Just think, damn it. They started the globalist ship. Sorry, well the English did it? We all done on behalf of the Dutch you oe, Alex Alex Jones and a polity.

No, but it's it's so funny. It's like, oh, the King of Spain doesn't want us to do this. Here, here's a bag of money. Let tell him to shut the fuck up. King of Spain says yeah, like they like, don't, don't go do this, don't. I think I think more of what America needs to do is rather than this is just based on that like kings of Quins, we still also have the ability is as our federal government

Yeah, now, the only I mean being the question everything contrary and that I am sometimes I'm like, I hope he didn't sweep up too many innocent people when he did that. Probably not. I mean, I think most of the folks he got were in the gangs and well known to be violent, and he dealt with those people. We have a little different thing.

In Americas of like different interviews, and that's like also usually how the gangs work, Like you don't get the tattoo, you don't get the representation if you're not in the gang, you know, yeah, and then you.

Just up with the tattoo. You're you're pretty good.

Yeah yeah, and you have to you have to have killed for it, Like that's the initiation. Like you kill, you get the tattoo, which means you're in the gang. Or well, I guess the other way around. For the league, it's like, and anyone kills, you're in the gang, you get the tattoo, which means you one of us.

Yeah. And if you're an American or international citizen so to speak, above of another not American country, sure you want Yeah, what am I trying to say? If you don't think Mexican cartels and other very dangerous groups need to be dealt with, you got to see some of the videos that are out there. I cannot recommend it, but if you search for a video called funky Town, you will know why we need to deal with that.

That's how you know it's the end of the show, right, So yeah, I mean, thank you for coming on. We touched on.

Everything everything I don't which. The only thing we left out was the kitchen's sake next time.

Yeah, I'll be using it to, you know, make dinner.

Of course. Well that was I mean to to kind of bring it around full circle. We started with the idea of you know, what is a what is a fake God? And in that way it you know, you could look at it from a biblical lens. What is a false idol? What is giving your faith or belief to something that is not true and does not produce good results? And we kind of talked to and that opens the door to everything. What do you believe? How do you engage with the world, What are the good

And then we also came to the conclusion that tribalism and having tribal land or tribal patches of lands true enclaves in.

America might be good reservation. Save the red Heads. That's that's my message we should come away with.

This should start we saved the red Heads.

You know, for sure, do your part. No, but this has been a it has been.

A most most fascinating chat for well two This is before editing, of course, so two hours forty two at the.

Moment, we just lapped the whole thing. I've done bother me. I'm fine with it. However, however you want to do it, so I I like, just do.

Basic basic editing like I don't. I don't cut a whole lot out just you know, the what is it like the filler words and shore the longer pauses to just make it a consistent hole. But I never cut out more than I mean.

It's all part of that producer's craft. We were talking about two yeah, yeah, no exactly finding the right mix. So yeah, I mean, dude, like like your stuff real quick. Then oh yeah, I'm a guy. So at the bottom of the screen there probably you'll see it, says uh Benjamin the dream Wizard dot com. You can also uh you know, find me of course at Benjamin the dream Wizer on YouTube and my music channel at real AI Radio where all those songs are. I got books about dreams,

You know, he says crazy shit sometimes.

I know, be quite so sure you know exactly what a wizard's up to, even he doesn't know what he's up to half the time. That's that's for sure. That's it, right, I trust my gut. I just go with it. I don't know why I'm doing this with this, this is what I need to do. Well, thank you for having me. I appreciate it. It's always always going to talk to you.

Yeah, absolutely absolutely, I still need to like plug my stuff. I have shit going on as well.

Oh yeah, do it?

Do it?

So?

Uh yeah, thank you everyone for watching. Thank you everyone for uh for listening. Thank you for uh for sticking with us on this. Uh like again like Rambly sites Tangent, uh, you know, Hopscotch kind of episodes. But I mean that's that's just what happens when you have someone who is you know, who is as awesome as as Ben Like. I mean, there's a reason why it's like two hours forty five at the moment. It's not because you know,

Probably. I'm not a hero. It's just what I do callbacks the best man.

Yeah. So I guess you know, if if you want to be my personal hero, god, I should like que Enriy Guglecia's hero. Like at this point, it's such a bat song, you know, go Christ, I'm trying.

To come on man. Greyhorn Pagans dot com.

Yeah yeah, that is of course the website Greyhorn Pagans dot com where you can find everything that we do with the Tribe of the Grand Pagan's Ground Pagans podcast Growth of Odin is where you can find the merchandise. It's where you can find the Patreon Patreon dot com first as Gronart Pagans, where all the episodes, including this one, will of course air a week early, well week in a day early, because I'm not like airing a new episode on Patreon and on YouTube on the same day.

He wants to play a good time.

This is happening, Yeah, amazing, Never Tuble said Viking Chess a awesome two player strategy game Chess as our ancestors used to play. It all handmade, hand crafted, a lot of love and a lot of where it goes into it. So go to shop Reclaim Repurpose dot at c dot com, show him some love and use code. What what's the code again, I keep forgetting that one. It should be that was it. Luckily I have it as a as a banner stein Fox.

Top of the one c f L.

The wife is calling, oh dear times to wrap it up really quick time, So shop, reclaim, repurpose, dot at c dot com code, stein Fox tough all t a f L for ten percent of your awesome never tuffle sets. The owner, our creator is a good friend of mine, good friend of the tribe, good friend of the channel. So go show him some love. And while you're showing everyone love, show Ben some love as well, you know, watching with his dream stuff.

What is bye bye bye kitty. He won't look you look at the camera.

Well, and I guess with all that said, the kiddy says by, Ben says by the wife is calling. So yeah, thank you all. Until the next time, everyone, Bye bye.

This was yet another amazing episode of the Gray Horned Pagans podcast. We thank you all for watching. We thank you all for listening, and remember to like, share, subscribe, and hit that notification bell so you will be notified.

Whenever we upload something new.

Support us on Patreon for early access and for everything else that we do with the Tribe. For everything else that we do with the podcast, find us on www.

Mwangiains dot com.

For now, we thank you that.

Until next time, H