Rune Magic, Tattoos and Custom Bindrunes with Andre Joose from NorseRuna

Lents side.

We call the winds the loud and right by the same.

Of the lads, we stand as one in a low being.

On nighty four we hadle in hand, strike down the pear, protect this land. Oh it's all father, seeker for so guide our souls to the sacred rhythm.

Franks, Queen of the Heart's home with love and grace makes a soul.

Sir, just with your eye might.

Guide us through the darken night hell. The mistress of life, Banta, show us the path with every breath, pray out gars of love and more.

We honor you know and forever more.

Than us to lease us.

We call the rooms we seek you goals useles right o't care.

We say away loco.

Weensas three.

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Welcome and welcome all. Welcome, I'm back to the Gray Horn Pagan's podcast. Uh and for those wondering, Yes, I am incredibly sunburned. Thank you for noticing.

Uh.

And today my guest is Andre Host. I've been following him on Instagram for quite a while. He's all about all about the rooms, and since I am doing more with the rooms, I thought, why not invite the one guy that I know who is all about it, who knows all about it. And yeah, like we got it scheduled in two days, like we confirmed it last last Monday, like it was rather quick. So yeah, like, first of all,

Okay, I I'm Andre you still like you just said, I'm an author tattoo artist during the day.

That's my day job, specializing in Nordy art.

And yeah, I'm a magician, witkey, wizard, whatever you want to call it. I suppose most people online know me as Norse runa where I do like buying rooms and Nordic art designed mostly for tattoos, t shirts, stuff like that. Do a few courses as well. I've got a Rooin course going on at the moment. Yeah, I've been into ruins for like more than.

Quarter of a century. Actually.

The other day I went to my family home and went for old boxes and stuff, and I found the first book of rooms that I bought, and luckily it had like a little price tag on with the date, and it's nineteen ninety five.

So yeah, quite a while.

I was three years old in nineteen ninety.

I think I was fourteen or fifteen something like that.

Okay, okay, oh, but that's that's young to like get into the Yeah.

I was always kind of like interested in like the occult and sigils and stuff like that, and I don't know, run's just kind of spoke to me. It's like everything I read was kind of like something I already knew. It was just someone saying it again.

Oh interesting, So like knowledge that you in a way already possessed, but for good you felt something.

It really felt like that. It felt like someone's like, hey, do you just remember this?

Yeah, oh that's interesting. I've actually I've heard that before recently, not not sure where, but that you know, like reading a text and it's like I know this, like I already knew this. Yeah, well this is the first time I'm reading it, like I shouldn't.

Know this, It's like that's that's exactly Yeah, that's exactly how I felt about the rooms.

So yeah, so like a true true blood memory of I think.

So, I think I think it does have to do with with heritage and stuff like that. I don't think it's a closed practice by any means, but I think it does help in a way.

Mm hmm.

Yeah, yeah, a lot of people will. I mean, there there are all sites. Of course. I'm quite curious how you think about this obviously, like you just said, like you don't think it's a it's a closed practice, but like do you think anyone can learnt the rooms or is it?

Like yeah, in a way, I do think that, but.

Like, for instance, like I kind of knew it, like it's like someone just telling me what to remember. I don't think if you have no cultural reference to it that you'll have that, but you can still learn about it.

I mean I can learn voodoo or who do or whatever. But I don't have any Western African do say, well that I know of?

Yeah, yeah, I mean you're you're quite pale from that obviously nowadays, that doesn't mean anything anyway, that.

Doesn't mean anything. No, true, true No.

I actually, like just a few weeks ago going into we've going into week three or week four on my Patreon, I've been reading The Night Side of the Rooms, Okay, which is a it's a really interesting book, but it really takes it from a like in occult perspective, nicala like connecting the ruins with like Gabala obviously with numerology even and making a lot of sense. So it's it's pretty it's really interesting.

I've heard about that, but I haven't personally read that book.

Oh I can. I can definitely recommend it. It's I mean, the first chapter is a little frustrating in the way that you know, in in in how it's written, it's kind of confusing, like it will repeat itself or contradict itself. But then we actually go into the ruins. It's it's quite ill elaborate, and I I'm enjoying it so far, and I want to touch on you, Like you said, you were also doing bind rooms, which is very very popular, and especially if you look on sites like uh Pinterest

Technically, I suppose you can just anyone squeeze anything together. But the thing is, the rooms aren't just letters. I mean they're spirits. They're that their entities you should have a relationship with. It's like calling on the gods or the ancestors or something. You shouldn't call on them if you're not gonna listen. So if you're just gonna treat it as like an alphabet, yeah, it's I get so many clients in my tattoo practice. I get so many clients that.

Bring me these behind dreams and it's like it really doesn't say anything. I'm sorry. It's like they're treating it like it's initials or something and or they're trying to write some thing in English in like elder who fork, which is for like proto Norse. Yeah, you've you've got to know your stuff, I suppose.

Yeah, yeah, I mean the translation translation is difficult as it is, especially you know, in in context.

Yeah, the thing is sorry.

No, I think it's very difficult with if you use the wrong runing system for the wrong language, for English or well any modern language. Really, I'll say it's the safest bit to use like medieval Runes, which is kind of like younger through farc with stunge rouns and stuff, because the sounds is different. You can't use something that's meant for old Norse and just all of a sudden

Yeah.

Like it almost sounds like people are treating it like like the Chinese and Japanese character tattoos that you'll sometimes see, like thinking it means something just incredibly profound, while you know they just tattooed like chicken soup or something.

True story, a friend of mine, I didn't do the tattoo, by the way, but a friend of mine got something on the back of his shoulder that says the path of the Righteous Warrior, and he went to China.

It says two spring rolls please. They literally copied it off me. Oh that is.

Not the same.

Yeah, so yeah, it is kind of like that, like that eighties nineties tribal tattoo fad. That's almost what bind rooms are becoming these days. I suppose I've been dressed and stuff like that.

Oh no, that's terrible, that's terrible. I mean tattoos like that was already terrible when it was a.

Trend yay, oh man, all No, tribal tattoos is kind of what got me into my whole Nordic artwork, because the thing is, when I started tattooing, there was this like nineties tribal neo tribal, which doesn't really mean anything, doesn't come from any tribe, it's just supposed to kind

Oh okay, oh interesting, Like yeah, it's it's always if it's like actual tribal, it's always some other country and like yeah, a lot of African, a lot of like rc KEI we Yeah. So but then what is European tribal like?

Is that like, well, we're not really a thing. It's it's kind of like Nordic work. It's like not work. It's Nordic or Celtic not work. Really some Slavic designs I suppose as well, But yeah, it's it's it's mostly not work based.

So not like it's it's tribal, but it's not.

It's not really tribal.

But that's the closest thing that that they got when they were living in a tribal society.

Yeah, okay, okay, so that is what what got you into tattooing. Oh that's you don't hear that often. Actually, how long have you been tattooing for?

About twenty two years? Well next week I'll be forty three.

Wow, okay, that is that's quite a while. And you do like a lot of a lot of rooms.

Yeah, yeah, I try to I do everything really. I don't do only Nordic work exclusively, but I do specialize in that, so I do a lot of rooms, a lot of notwork sleeves and stuff like that.

Yeah, So are there any like when I a client comes to you and ask you for, you know, like a Nordic tattoo in like the most general sense, Like you know, you have those people to like, oh I want a Nordic tattoo.

Okay, okay, yeah, but they don't have any clue what Nordic tattoo.

It's like, okay, but what do you want? Like are there any free requisites? Like can it just be like, oh, you know, I just think it's really cool, or is there like a kind of a checklist.

Or whatever the client wants he gets really, I mean, I can give him directions and normally if he has no clue what he wants, sometimes they don't even know on what area they want the tattoo, I'll sit them down, have like a little consultation with them, say for like fifteen fifteen minutes whatever, and just talk about random stuff. If he doesn't even know anything of Norse mythology anything like that, just ask him what's your favorite animal? And you can built like a whole.

Body suit basically based on that.

I mean, there's such cool Wolf designs or Raven designs or stuff like that. Yeah, so I try to inform them as much as I can, but yeah, sometimes they just want to get something because it's pretty.

Yeah, I mean that you know that works like Wolf and Raven. I I actually have those on my Yeah, I got the cool for my for my wife. That's her spirit animal, guardian animal. And then like, I mean, yeah, it's cool, but okay, and those are the the two biggest projects, the two biggest ones that I have. And I have a design that I still need to get

Yeah, well it depends on you as well on you personally, but I would I would love that.

I actually have quite a.

Relationship with like Norman Gander human fain Rear or her and fain Rear.

I they're not all bad. There's some good in it.

Norman got there isn't just unbridled chaos. It's kind of like the order that holds the world in place as well.

And stuff like thin Rear. He's not just the crazy wolf that eats everything in his sight. I mean he got bound up for how long and restraint in everything, and now he's breaking loose and becoming the higher self that he's got to be.

Yeah.

So I suppose in all of these like evil creatures or whatever, you can see see the good in it as well.

Fair enough, fair enough, like especially with family year Like if you you know, would buying me for I don't know how many years and I finally break free, I would go him as well.

Yeah. And I mean you got bound just because they were afraid of you, not because you did anything. Yeah. Yeah like that.

I I love the like the irony and in that hole, in that whole tale, it's like he's making it happen, Like he's making the premonition happen by trying to prevent the premonition.

Probably he wasn't going to do anything.

No, but like actually by actually you know, betraying him, deceiving him, trying to you know, stop that future from happening, he makes it happen, which is just beautiful irony. Really, I mean absolutely sucks because you know, racking rock. Yeah, not a good thing, but it's just the the the irony is is beautiful. I feel, would you deny like certain clients, like just for like Nors or just anything, like, is there stuff that you just absolutely will not do?

So far, I haven't really encountered anyone that wants something that crazy people obviously wanted stuff that I wouldn't get on myself. But I don't think anyone really is in a position to tell you, hey, you're not allowed to get that or think that or whatever.

Okay, I mean because you like you just said that. Sometimes people like they don't even know anything about Norse mythology, but they want like a Norse themed tattoo. And I mean, like I'm you know, just more of her client, more of her canvas. Well, like I'd say, well, if you don't know anything about it, then you know, like why why get one just like just because you think it's a pretty picture. I mean, yeah, I get it, it is.

The thing is.

Yeah, if if that's kind of got no interest in it and they don't want to learn or anything like that, I'll do something like the animal thing that kind of Norse fiend and kind of looks.

The way the client wants. But that's not really something out of the Adas or the Sagas or anything like that, something that's not really well religious.

Yeah yeah, okay, so you just find like some middle grounds. It looks like it. You can tell all your friends like, oh, you know, I got this cool wolf tattoo because I'm like, oh norus stuff and whatever you're you know, but.

It's not it's not thing real. It's not skull or houty or whatever. It's just a wolf.

Yeah, okay, okay, okay, uh, I guess I'm too.

Yeah.

I mean that's why I'm not a tattoo artist a canvas instead, because I would have just said, like, but if you don't know anything.

About it, no, just go learn, come back believe me.

Patience Man tattoo art taught me so much patience with people.

Being a canvas taught me patience. I mean, my my wolf, like it's the like the masterpiece so far eight hours. Holy shit, I was hurting at the end.

Yeah, eight our sessions. It's not fun, but it's it's kind of the norm for me.

Man, it's it's so bad, like but then the I mean I do love that. That wasn't actually the like an idea of the artist to put like the like the pink reddish around it so it would like really really pop. Yeah, but that was like the last oh god, like the last ten minutes or so ten to fifteen minutes, and that's always the worst day on and then like you know, like very close to you know, like very close on my wrist, very close to the crook of

So what is it that?

Yes, about once a year I do.

It's a well, it's it's on your own time. But it's normal about two maybe three month long. For course, it's all email based. So basically, I give you a module, I give you homework.

I market it's Rune magic and bind rooms.

So well then like what do you what do you teach I mean bind rooms? Like, yeah, we kind of we kind of got that. Just make sure it is what it actually says, not you know, like two spring companies.

Okay, Well, first of all, I go through well, not all, but the majority of Nordic gods and spirits and land rights.

And stuff like that, and.

I need people to get like a feeling for the whole cosmology, to understand the realms and everything. Then I go through all the well all the historical NORDI Runich sets there's about six of them. And then and then yeah, then I teach them that like the different styles of bind rooms and stuff like that, and tell them which runs not really to use together, or I give them

There really are certain rooms that just don't kind.

Of contradict each other, I suppose. Yeah, yeah, you can definitely get something like that.

I think give an example, like I'm trying to think.

Of something, I can't really think of anything.

Now, say, for instance, you're talking about like grounding, and you'll use the Uru's room because it's it's a grounded room. It's a room for like the animals of the land and whatever. And you're using la goose, which is well directly translated lake or water, but it's the flow of emotions and.

Stuff like that.

You're like com whining those two. You're getting like a spike in your emotions. It's gonna be like something to create fury or whatever and not really to ground you.

So yeah, yeah, okay like that.

Yeah, Yeah, it's experience subtle. I mean, it's not like it's like ying and yang or anything like that. So you've just got to read like the subtle energies in it.

Yeah no, that makes oh like that, Yeah that makes sense. Like you you would go just like opposites effects like opposite effects together. It's not gonna like would you say, it's gonna like cancel each other out.

Or just like cause kind of creates something totally neat. Yeah, and I mean you're magically intinct that you right beforehand. That's gonna be very direct. You can't like be vague in what you want for the the end result of the room or anything.

So like you you have to like really like really believe it. It's not like you have like presented as a statement or is it just like kind of you know, I would like to but or is it like really the like by the end of this I am going to I will.

Even at a time, because if you say by the end of this, it's always gonna be by the end of that.

For instance, let's take a money. Don't say by the end.

Of this year, I'm going to be a millionaire, because next year, by the end of that year, you're going to be a millionaire.

And that's just gonna go on and on and on for the next year. You're going to become a millionaire. There, make it I am a millionaire.

Oh right, yeah, so present time because then it's like everything prison time. Yeah, like you already are that.

It's just you don't want anything. You don't want it in a certain time. It's now.

Oh right, that's yeah, so manifesting through the rooms. But then like yeah, it's like it's you know, it is already, so it's just everything else still has to catch up to it.

Exactly.

You're the ones licking behind like I am already.

It's just exactly yeah yeah, uh yeah no I like that. I like that.

Like too many times it's just this this like where she was she like, oh you know, I would like you know, it's kind of like dear diary. Okay, so like what kind of people like is it all just like Norris Pagans or like who do your course? Or people just kind of interested. And it's because like room magic is it's quite serious. You know, like not everyone can can handle it. I mean it cost odin, I mean pretty much everything to like first of all discover it.

Yeah, it's it's very powerful for since you're working with.

Everyone that so far did the course, and I've been doing it for like this is the third year now.

They were all norse pagans.

Some of them only started, so I actually had to like do like a module zero to like catch them up sometimes.

Wow, but.

Yeah, it's a.

I suppose not everyone. I mean I had people fall out of the course. Not that I said, hey, this isn't for you, this isn't gonna work. They just literally stopped in like halfway through, and like, you know what, I don't want to do this anymore because it is serious.

The course isn't. Yeah, it isn't a joke. It's not like a little let's learn the old through fard meanings or what either. Yeah.

Now, but even beginners like but if you're just I mean thinking of you know, like how I started. Yeah, it was all like interesting and fascinating and whatever. But back you know when I when I got on the path, if I was to learn ruin magic, that would not that would not go well. I just I don't think I would have like truly understood it.

I've got to say a lot of them that just start out, they go through the course and some make it, but yeah, I don't think they get out of it the same as what someone will get out of it that's at.

Least like ten years into the whole paganism.

Yeah, but like the you tell them like hey, you know, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I understand that you're like you're you know, I'm loving it that you know that you're loving it, like you know, hey, welcome, welcome back. But this is you know, it's kind of like I'm on the path. You're like at the first step, but like I want to do the rooms. It's like okay, but that's like step like a hundred, like you know, starting off slow, just like hey, you know you want to

No, no, definitely.

I still give them all the info, all the attachments, all the reference and everything. But at the end of the course, I do give them certification and whatever, and they're not going to give city. They're not going to get like yeah, I'm going to give them the tools, but they don't make it.

They don't make it. I mean, that's ultimately up to you.

Yeah, that's that's fair enough, I guess. I mean, I understand wanting to learn the magic of the rooms, but like if you just discovered, you know, you're like the path again, it's like slow down, really, And I think a.

Lot of people that just started and they're doing the course, which doesn't happen that often, but I mean there was a few cases like that. I think in five years or ten years or whatever, when they go back to the course, because I mean they've got all the info and everything already, I think they're gonna get ah that's what he made.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

So is there a.

Like a certain place for you know, rooms and room magic that you recommend people start at. Is it like basically first learn like the names.

Or yeah, well, I mean most people start with the elder Foo forark, get like a room set online with like a little booklet that gives you like one word meaning of the room or whatever. By all means, do that. Get that down.

You can always build on it from there. I'll say for a beginner to learn, basically, the best is take a run set. I actually have dice, like three eight sided dice which I cast or I pick one of them and I just caused it. But take your run set. Pick out a ruin every morning and meditate on that route. I meditate every morning, but not long like say twenty minutes, half an hour or something like that, but meditate on that route.

Yeah, you maybe know one or two meanings of the room or whatever, but really meditate on it and listen to what the rune or the ruine spirit or whatever what it tells you.

Forget about what you read and really listen to it. Write it down, make a little journal, write it down.

I mean, the whole exercise will take you like half an hour in the morning, and just go through all the ruins like that.

Well, it can be in chronological order, it doesn't have to. You can just pick them randomly whatever.

And.

Then stop after say the twenty four or whatever. If you do the Elder for four.

Stop with it, and about three four months afterwards, do it again. Write it down again, and see what did you learn?

What's different about the ruins?

Now?

Just remember the ruins their entities. They're living well beings, if you want to put it that way. They do grow.

It's not like it's a static or form or whatever. It's not like it's our normal alphabet that just stays like that. Magical practice, spiritual practice.

It's supposed to grow.

We are not historical reenactors or whatever. We take what's written in the past and we build on that. It's not supposed to stay static. Right, and the same room to me can mean slightly different than it does to you. And that doesn't make my opinion right at yours.

Wrong because it's a personal that's the thing.

You've got to have a personal relationship with them. Yeah, maybe that room didn't show me, decided it showed you. I mean, I'm pretty sure person A is going to have a slightly different opinion about me than person B.

I think, sure, yeah, and you should.

I think you should view the rooms kind of like it's not a date, static symbol that just means one thing.

I think that's a very common trap for for beginners.

Like I have this.

Just this basic picture that I use when I'm doing the the Patreon book club where I am reading Light Side of the Runes, and it's all like, yeah, it's it's the basic meanings. But I just I really use it too well, mainly to like show show my subscribers like what room I am on now, because I would love to show them like the pages in the book, but are like this freaking small, and I have to be like but they're all like, it's all the static basic meanings, like you know, this room is that, and

Like that, because I mean most Northern pagan or most Pagans in general, have a very animistic worldview, and they do see the spirit in the tree, the spirit in the rock. It's not just it's not just the tree. So I suppose you can view the rooms like that. But yeah, that whole static thing. I get that all the time because I post a lot of my bind roams on Instagram and stuff like that, and I get

Yeah, it's like that, that's yes, that's what it means on the surface, Like that's what those two rooms together literally mean. Yes, they're rooms. So yeah, I never thought of them as as living beings. Actually, that's that's something I that's something I'm gonna have to to meditate on. I never pictured them like it's like that.

It's like all sigils really, it's it's what what what you're you put into it, It's the will you put into it, it's your intent, So it is moving forward. It's yeah, it's not just the line on a piece of paper.

No, I know that, of course, I know that and understand that. The magic of the of the rooms in you know, Germanic Norris, whatever you want to call it, is yeah, very very powerful magic. I want to say, like very powerful masculine magic. Or am I saying like I think it can be feminine as well.

It could be there that there's some Ruins that has a strong feminine energy, but Connor for instance, in a way, but in general, yeah, I think it is more.

Of a muscular thing.

Golder was traditionally seen as the muscular form of Nordic magic, where cider was more feminine.

So yeah, that'sfinitely definitely.

Does I maybe this you know is in the book, but does sider have like their own or does it have its own room set because Golder is like, as you said, is really you know with the ruins.

Yeah, Golder is like the vocal image or the vocal part of the runs.

It's like actually vibrating the rune, saying the rune out loud. There's some poetry like goldra lag and stuff like that, which is yeah, putting out the word. I mean in the beginning there was the word, but no cider is more like it's like a trance thing. It's like they're the nation through trance and kind of like ritual dance. Sometimes it's actually very much like well in a way, it's very much like like kee gong.

It's like an energy transfer thing.

The way I see it, the muscular way of magic is projecting something outwards where the feminine is taking the energy inward.

So it's more like being possessed. I suppose it's like taking the entity in you where the muscular will be putting your will out there.

Yeah, okay, I mean that's yeah, that's the thought that that I got to when you were when you were telling it, it's like, yeah, that that is like for the masculine thing, Like it's very very outwards, you know,

I suppose if you meditate on it or whatever, you can kind of see it in that way.

But yeah, not really, yeah, because like ruins are expressions, and by you know, it's expressing.

You know, there we go.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay does for all the ladies watching, which is I believe like two percent of my audience, it's a real sausagetist mm hmm h doesn't mean that you can't practice it, no, not at all, not at all, Like I mean, yeah, as you said, like you know, back go on the Birch.

I I just.

Just read about that in the book. And and even when I like hadn't read the or what Thomas Carlson, at least the meaning that he has given it to it already feels feminine in a way, like just looking at it, it's like, yeah, that's that's feminine. I don't know why exactly what it's feminine. And then in the book it says because it's of course, you know, the the top down view, and it's like, yeah, yes, the greatest view there is of all you girls.

Like it's like.

I don't have those fortunate but also and I I like, I think I like that one more the representation of a pregnant woman, like you have the bust and then the belly, and it's like, yeah, that is incredibly feminine, incredibly beautiful. Back now the birch tree also to my knowledge at least, that's more Eastern, but connected to Baba Yaga, very powerful witch in her own rights, you know, or

Yes, yes, Anglo Saxon and Anglo Frisian is kind of like the same set. I actually used that sick quite a bit on Afrikaans, which is kind of like, well they call it kitchen Dutch, so yeah, so so for Afrikaans and Dutch, I suppose the freezing stuff makes a lot of sense because it's kind of like the same sounds that we still like.

Yeah, yeah, I haven't gotten into the in the Anglo Friesian just yet, but I do want to.

It's quite a nice set.

But yeah, I'll say probably the most that I use these days is younger for farc because it's Viking and everyone wants a Viking behind rune and medieval ones because it's the easiest for modern languages.

Yeah, yeah, I suppose that's true. Like you know, they I've heard many times that like the the old Middle English and if you take like more modern Frisian, like they can understand each other with you know, with some like some struggle some words. Maybe maybe different, but it's like the same. I'm you know, good friends with another

Just very veryful.

Yeah, yeah, I know, exactly and he you know, he'll ask me like this word like it's it's that in Dutch. Two writing's like, yes, it is, okay, got that.

Right, Sorry, just on a totally different thing. It's getting quite lark here. Should I turn on a light here or something? Or is it still okay?

Adds to the ambiance?

Okay there, I mean if.

You want to, if you want to turn on the light, you no, turn on the light.

But I think you know, uh, it's kind of like late autumn almost winter here, so it gets.

Yeah, you're on the half of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, it's actually it's it's like starting to like be actual summer here, freaking finally after I don't know, like I mean, every winter in the Netherland seems like a fimble winter just and then summer is just like, you know, gone and that's it. Yeah, It's like you have three weeks when it's scorching hot and then it's like, you know,

Well, I've got a personal binderying that like kind of represents my signature, like my magical signature.

I suppose. I suppose that's my favorite. It's it's kind of an awar room.

With like a gabble room in the middle. So it's like the gift of hanging on the tree something like that, I suppose. But that's just that that's a bind room I created. I mean, there's there's not a lot of historical bind rooms there.

There are some, but yeah, it's it's.

Not really a historical thing really. I like, I like simple bind rooms really like a lot of the time when I don't really have the time to do a bind room, I just take a roun.

Make like three of them in a circle.

So for instance, like like like make a little triangle thing with like a fair hoo, fair hoo, fair who and that's my money roun.

Write that in on a piece of paper, put it in your wallet something like that.

Okay, yeah, oh that's funny. It's like kind of like like I saw that with like a lot of a lot of ruins already like that. If you like combine to you know, they they're basically another room. The best example that I found is like with Lagos, and it was like if you take Lagos, you know, copy it, mirror its, join it.

There's a was and that is kind of what it was is. It's what's above is below. It's the same emotions, the same flow. Yeah.

Yeah, like take Lagos, copy it, try of like kind of you know, turn it upside down like you have you have a was or I was even the Yeah no, it's yeah, that that is the the as above so below of course.

Yeah.

So but bind rooms aren't historically accurate, like that's more of a modern.

Practice kind of. There's there's a few cases of runes that they think was bind runs.

A lot of times it's in signatures of the people that made the artifact, like this artifact was made by Andre and then they'll like only do like two or three runs and not five.

Or something like that. There was like Runick Bands, like a sequence of runes that was definitely for magical purposes. But yeah, bundrons is kind of like a modern thing. But once again that's like growing on what was history, taking the old and going with it and not just re enacting it.

Yeah, okay, so like buying rooms are just another evolution.

Of that's it.

I mean, there was a few of them, but it wasn't as popular as it is today, not by far.

Yeah, okay, okay, Like, oh, I'm actually kind of starting to understand it now because like so many, like so many people, so many Pagans, I mean, like the real hardcore ones are like, you know, no, buying rooms weren't the thing, so we shouldn't use them now either. I was like, I mean I kind of get it, Like if you want to be historically historically accurate, sure, but I mean it's also what I you know, what I do with the tribe, of course. It's like, yeah, like

How?

How has it evolved? How can we evolve it?

Really?

So it fits within the twenty first century, which is a bitch to find out, really, Like it's a it's a question I don't think we'll ever really be answered or like have a definitive answer.

No, no, it can't really be an onnswer I suppose.

Yeah, it's fun to ponder on at least. So what do you see as the like if bind runs are like the the current evolution, okay, well, where do you see it going? Like what is what would be the next, the next thing, the next.

Well okay, I can't really speak for like the general trend or whatever. I have seriously no idea, but personally I am busy kind of adding them to like secretary hometry and making energy grids with the rooms and stuff like that.

This is actually for my next book.

But preview, I'm making these huge grids, really say, putting like a geometry symbol thing in the middle as big as a room or bigger than a room. I mean, it did one right around my whole homestead, but like the main ones is like free by three meters or something, and you sit.

Inside of the.

The lines that you created, and like every time where a line cross kind of like lay lines, you put the right room there and you sit in the middle of it and meditate.

And just work on that energy. And so far I've got to say, I've found like nice, well that works. It works.

So it looks more like, well, if you would droids really small, it kind of looks more like a like Gohtic seal or something like kind of like a bentogram in the middle of a circle, and like at each point there's like a different room or the same room, and that concentrates the energy of those rooms to the middle of it.

So it comes to my mind, is the the alchemist symbol?

It is? It is.

It is like transformation circles of alchemy very much because you you know, take the outside elements and transmute them into one thing. So yeah, that's personally where where my room magic is going. I don't really know if that will catch on.

We'll see.

I mean, it should catch on though, it makes it no, but it makes it makes a lot of a lot of sense, Like in a way like you could say that the rooms as symbols are you know, sacred geometry. It is very similar, really simplified.

I guess, yeah, it's very very It's very similar actually, and that's kind of what I believe in most symbols and well some some of my artwork as well. Always simplify it, simplify it, break it down into like the most compact thing you can have. I mean that's what they would have done a thousand years ago. I mean they carved it into stone and wood or whatever. They didn't want five hundred lines.

Yeah, like if you're carving it, like especially if you're carving it into stone, like it does to be simple and quite literally straightforwards. Yeah, I mean you can if you're really patient with some really sharp tools, Like, yeah, you can make some pretty stuff. But it's a hell of a job. M I mean it would it's a little easier, but yeah, oh that's hm hmm. I'll be following that. I'm I'm very curious as where you're Yeah, definitely, Oh, definitely publish more of that at the moment.

I think there's like one or two on my social media stuff and whatever. But yeah, I'm definitely working on.

Oh that is awesome. I would have never thought of that, but it makes so much sense actually.

Yeah.

And the weird thing is, like when I started, it felt like I'm combining these kind.

Of like opposite cultures.

But like you just said, it is kind of sacred geometry, and if you work with the energy transmuting it. It is kind of alchemed it's I think it's a logical step forward.

It is, yeah, it is.

And sacred geometry. We I mean we're using that in Europe as well. I just you know, look at the medieval castles. You know, there is most definitely something to them. Like I don't like that everyone. That's more of a personal pat peeve for me. But like everyone who is

Yeah, it's actually very weird. Weird.

I talked to someone brought close to me the other day and they're all into their Eastern philosophy and everything.

And basically they're thinking exactly what I'm thinking. They've got exactly the same rules or ideas or whatever.

It's like, dude, you could have just stayed home, really, you could have gotten exactly that same info. Yeah, just listening to your ancestors and you didn't.

Have to go that far. Yeah.

No, I mean if it, if it calls to you, you know, more power, all the more power to you. That's that's that's fine.

But like it.

And I get it, you know, like you see the tapestries with like all you know, all the colors and the mandolas, and yeah, it's it's incredibly beautiful. And then I mean Celtic not work. It's it's kind of a mandala as well, is yes, and the knowledge is incredibly similar. I mean, you know there is in history of course, there was a point where you know, some group went east and the other went west, and so yeah, but

To and that kind of touches on the whole closed system thing that we talked about earlier as well. I think the path that I took was just so much easier than the path that that person took because mine was right here, it was part of me already.

He had to look for it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly like it it found I mean, it found you. It was already there, you just had.

To Yeah, got the same end result and everything. So he's not wrong. He's not wrong for taking something out of his culture. But I think it could have been easier.

Yeah, yeah, easier, quicker, lot less, lot less stress, a lot less having to having to learn difficult languages and you know, words that you you don't understands like sounds, grit, it's, for example, what everybody's so it's really cool, but I don't understand those scribbles.

I mean, I didn't really have to learn any language. It's just trying to learn all the versions of the languages that I already know. But yeah, yeah, learned totally different, totally new languages.

Just to eventually come to the same conclusions and gather the same knowledge and wisdom as you did with half the effort exactly. Yeah, that's speaking of irony.

That's that's pretty different people.

Eh yeah, yeah, yeah, different strokes for different people. I guess that's funny. But yeah, like hmmm, I like that sacred geometry with the wounds, like it's it is a logical.

That that's kind of and I mean if you look at like the sixteenth century Golder stuff here and stuff like that, like the Battle Visiou, which everyone thinks is Viking, but never mind, we're not going there.

Oh that was already yeah, that was already alchemy kind of, so they were kind of already going that direction.

I mean the fact you see her like it is it is a schedule, really yeah.

And it is Icelandic. It's just not the right period. But I mean the whole thing that people so so stressed out about Viking the like, that's like a three hundred year period in history. Man, Really that's three hundred years.

A lot of changes in three hundred years, a lot of three years.

So that's why I try I not to call my work Viking artwork, although for commercial purposes I have to hashtag Viking artwork, but artwork, yeah, like.

For for the for the like, for the se O, for the search engine optimization and marketing.

Unfortunately, Yeah, it's it's just Nordic. It's not just Icelandic. It's not just Norway or Sweden or whatever. I would actually go as far as say it's kind of Northern slash Western European artwork, because there's.

Some Celtic knots in some of my stuff as well. Some of my clients specifically ask for Celtic work just the other day I did something based on the Morrigan and stuff like that. So oh yeah, that was quite nice. It was a four arm pies.

Oh nice.

Yeah.

My my my wife, she loves the the darker goddesses. And the Oregon is a it's a powerful one, a beautiful one and a powerful one. And also you know, of course crows and ravens again, very very much a theme here in northern you're northwestern western Europe. I mean, like when it comes to that, the Netherlands is in just the perfect spot for it. Like if you take northwestern Europe.

Yeah, now it's it's perfect.

Yeah, It's like it's really easy to take from scannin Aviah. It's really easy to take from the British Isles, Germany, some some goal perhaps you know, like France. Yeah that's really that's really cool.

Yeah, I mean if you take it back far enough, northern Germany, Frisia, Danish stuff and whatever.

It was all kind of the same. It was all the same kind of tribes really, yeah.

I mean the you know you're in the Netherlands, it was the whole like now it's just one province, but it was the whole western coast, Like I believe going into like a part of Germany that was Frisia and Germania was like the rest of the Netherlands and a huge part of what is now Germany. So it's still you know, the same names, the same people. A lot of people, especially the native English speakers, get Dutch and German. They get confused because.

You know, Dutch and Deutsch and it's like different. It maybe sounds like each other, but it's really.

Not recalls as well, because technically they can both be dates.

German isn't really, but they call them datesifs as well.

Yeah, yeah, I know, I I I do follow a an African content creator on on TikTok, but when she goes off in Afrikaans, I'm lost. It's like like as as you said, like if it's like kind of you know, slow like take take like I can, like, yeah, some of the words are different, but I know what you're getting it. But then she, you know, she goes off like no, I'm just like cool, no idea what you just said. But hey, good for you.

Yeah.

I get quite a few tattoo clients from the Netherlands and when they talk to me in in Dutch, then then it's fine. But when say the girl talks to her boyfriend like sitting on the stool next to me, I'm.

Like totally lost this what's way too far? A really slow that's cool, but now.

Like can you say that again at half speed?

Yes?

Yeah, yeah, no. Language is it's an interesting, interesting thing, and I mean you can take the rooms for language like it is used as.

I mean, the primary goal back then was communication. It was a later thing. The magic came later. I won't say that much later, but yeah, primary it was a communication tool.

Just you know, if you're getting it, to make sure that you're you're using the right ones.

Older food for arc that they translated directly from English that they wanted me to tet to you.

No please yah, please do your homework.

Well I mean that that goes for everything.

Just please don't worry.

I mean, if you're if you're going to take an ancient language and like directly translated to a modern language, it's so much meaning gets get and you know you'll end up like like your friends who thinks like it's just a badass Chinese saying but oh man, so where can where can the good people find your your course on the rooms because it sounds like it's definitely one of the one of the better ones.

On my website ww dot north Reuno dot com, there's still like I think there's two.

Spots open at the moment. I only take fifteen.

Learners a year, well be course sometimes well not sometimes. So far, I've just done it once a year, but I'm thinking i might do the course end of this year again, Like.

You wanna you want to do it more often?

Yeah?

Yeah, like the last one, Well, like I said, I've only have like two spots left, and I started with it like officially about a week ago, so it falls up pretty quickly. Yeah, so this one fold up pretty quickly. The previous ones it did fall up eventually, but it wasn't that quick. So there's definitely a demand for it. But yeah, it's on the website or otherwise, I'll say, in my Instagram.

Those are properly the two places where I'm the most active.

I do have a YouTube and I do have a Facebook, but I've been adlecting it so much. I think, like the last YouTube video I posted was like a year ago.

Oh yeah yeah yeah, and Facebook is Facebook is such a bad platform anyway.

Yeah, I kind of link my Instagram to it, so like once or twice you'll get like an Instagram post on my Facebook and that's that's how active I am.

Yeah. Yeah, you just link it to your Instagram because then you know, at least something's happening on Facebook. Yeah yeah, yeah, no, I get that with the other project that I'm involved with, like we do the exact same.

Like that's just easier, man, Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, just way easier. But I mean, good thing that you're gonna like do it more often, I think, you know, like especially especially now since there is such a a pagan revival going on, like more and more people are, you know, turning back to their heritage. Also because with all that you know, shit going on in the world, there is really not much that you can you can hold onto.

Yeah, anymore. I don't want to hold on to something that's that's true.

Yeah yeah, and then you know your ancestry, like it's it's right there, and it's it's you know, it takes a lot of a lot of time and effort still to to really get to understand it, really understand you know, where you are from, where you are coming from, what you're you know, your whole lineage is but I mean better that than you know, worship the next Scientist.

Yeah, exactly, so north Aruna dot.

Com it is, because yeah, I'll of course make sure that it's in the description down below. Yeah, no, of course it's you know, it's amazing work that you're that you're doing. And you said you were an author as well, like you're you're a man of many talents.

Yeah, I wrote a book also on runs. We're busy doing the final edit at the moment. I think I think it's the eighth of January. It's it's early next year that it's apparently going to be published. It's going to be published via Crosscrow Books. The you can already pre order the book, but yeah, it's not printed.

Yet, okay, Cross Crows Cross Books. Okay, and that's like I can find that on your Instagram.

Yeah, yeah, it's on my instagram as well. Yeah. Yeah, I've actually got a live link in my bio to the pre order page of the book as well.

Oh cool, okay, Oh good one, I'll check that out right away. I mean more books on rooms, hell, yeah, let's go.

Yeah.

No, like there's there's so much to learn when it when it comes to the rooms and.

What you just said. People want to learn now, they really want to learn.

Ten years ago, I would say I knew what I know now, but I still knew a lot about rooms. No one wanted to listen to me. I was the crazy guy drawing rooms. Now people actually want to know.

Yeah, yeah, I mean I think that's you know, it's just another another step in the in the pagan revival. Like, yeah, we kind of like know about about the gods now those stories are abundant, Like everyone's always talking about the gods and their stories, which are great stories to tell, of course, But like the next step is really going into the into the magical side of it. And then you know, of course, first you get to the rooms, Like.

Yeah, that that is I think that's the first step in the magical direction of the North. Definitely. Yeah.

And hey, you know, you don't have to hang nine days and nine nights on Gracile to to find out, you know, that's that's also a thing of the past. Now you can just buy his course.

And yeah, just buy a course. It's a lot easier.

I was gonna say, like, you probably won't be the next Odin, but but at the very least you can keep both eyes, which comes in really handy, you know, especially like for depth perception and everything, like just two eyes. There's a reason why you have to watch and Odin is. You know, he was a special one of course, Like the the end justifies the means you want to lie, Okay, here you go. It's like, oh, that's a pretty hardcore.

Yeah, it wasn't really this nice god that everyone say he was. He was hardcore. Man, he was hardcore. Oh yeah, oh god him. I mean I love Odin obviously, but it was kind of an asshole sometimes. Man. He was harsh.

Oh dude, he did things that no, like you you don't you don't do that, like I mean, at least ask permission. I mean, dude, like maybe I don't know, maybe it's on foreplay.

Just have it been consensual, like dude, I know different times, but gosh, man, well, I mean the result.

Was there and that's that you saw.

That that matters and what the story is about.

He gave everything for well to become the highest version of himself, and I think that's what we do as well. Give everything, maybe not as harshly, but give everything to become the better version of yourself.

Yeah yeah, I mean he and by that, like he discovered the magic of the rooms and by you know, trying to be the best version of ourselves that we can. Like it brought you to, you know, to where you are now, successful tattoo artist, you know, a book coming out, multiple you know, courses on on the rooms, like developing

Jeez, man, that's yeah, that's wow.

That's insane. That's really it's it shot up enormously, Like I've told this many times, but it was quite quite fitting. Actually it was around uh sour and Halloween time that I was at six hundred and sixty six subscribers. Like even made a joke of it, like, oh, you know, Halloween six six and now I'm like, you know, close to to a thousand, Like man.

Kind of just on on that weird think it's sowe now in the Southern Hemisphere, it's not Beltane now, it's yeah, it's Halloween here, right, yeah, oh.

North Southern Yeah, no, of course, of course. Oh that's weird. Celebrating sour It's very weird.

I'll say most of us Southern Pagans kind of practice the northern stuff. Really. Yeah, most people will celebrate Beltane or whatever now. But yeah, technically it is it's Halloween.

That's oh, that's so weird, like Halloween in April. No, the world is a strange place. But yeah, I mean, dude, thank you very much for for coming on. I I definitely have some some stuff too to ponder on, like my I think my takeaways are the Ruins as living entities. Never thought about it that way. It's an interesting thoughts and the like your next project, like Sacred Geometry and

I'll definitely keep you updated on.

That, yes please, And I am definitely going to to pre order your book, like just anything Ruins, you know, let's go. Well, thank you really really digging in the magical aspect of it. It's beautiful, it's powerful, hard to comprehend sometimes. Yeah, a lot of takeaways from this. This is really cool.

Thank you well, Slea sure, man, it's been nice. Thanks yeah, and you know.

For the good people watching, for the good people listening. I hope you you learned from this as well. And if not, then what have you been doing? You know what, what have you been watching? What have you been listening? Just you know, watch it again, listen to it again.

There are there are.

Definitely gems in there. And hey, if you did learn something from it, if you have some major takeaways or even questions, leave them in the comments. If I can answer them, I'll be happy to answer them. If I can't answer them, I'll just be like, oh, they have questions.

I check the podcast comments all the time.

Awesome And if you, of course, if you want to you know, see more here more learn more to follow on the on Instagram, check out his website or dot com. I will make sure that they are all in the

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