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Welcome to the Great ourn Pagan's Podcast. Here we discuss all mathers, Paganism, Evanism, Witchcraft, history and mythology. EVA like something nice in the comments. Share this with everyone and enjoy yourselves on this amazing episode of the Gray heart Bags podcast.
H m hm, they're very proud of you.
Interesting.
I thought i'd just get the recordings started.
Of me being a medium. Thanks thanks han On.
Everyone knows.
If it makes you feel better. I don't necessarily identify as we do, but I do. I'm a lucid dreamer and I do often see the dead in my dreams. So I have a guess as to what you're seeing behind me because I see her in my dreams.
Well, it could be two people.
It feels like a maternal figure who passed before you were born. Interesting, okay, but I'm not seeing a face, that's all. I'm getting.
Faceless and spooky.
That's how your brother presents himself to me all the time. It's faceless, just to see if I spook, and it's like.
No, And I guess with that introduction, welcome all to the Grey Horned Pagans Podcast. As you can hear, as you can see, we got started already, and I thought, you know, I can try and get everyone together so that we may start recording, or I can just hit record and see what happens. So here we are, of course, with the lovely Wafy fire Faye, who is graciously joining us.
It's been a while actually since you've been on.
And of course our guest Emma McDonald, a writer, mostly a writer. I've been reading her book today. I've been reading it all day. Came through chapter ten, a little past chapter ten, kitty, of course. Sorry, sorry.
Our famiers are always going to be part of the show, honey. We can't edit them out. You know this, it's always been moving there.
Yeah, I mean I couldn't even added the mouth if I if I try to, like just make their way back in. But yeah, Emma, thank you for joining us, and thank you for contacting us or having your agents or whoever it is contacting us.
Michael, thank you so much for having me.
Yeah. No, of course, of course, introduce yourself for the people who may not know you just yet but absolutely should.
Yeah. So I'm Emma. I am an author. My debut novel, whispers On's Foul, just came out in October.
I'm also a witch and if you could see my setup behind me, it's a little bit of fact in terms of the book because it is a very fictionalized accountant.
But yeah, so that's me.
I have my little familiar, as you mentioned, with me, who may or may not make other appearance.
I'm sure they'll they'll make an appearance familiar to of a tendency to do so.
She's already stealing on the show. She's right behind you, looking at you fondly and now looking away like I didn't do nothing.
Yeah, that sounds like something that's familiar. How did you came up with the inspiration for your book? I mean, at first, when I read the summary, I was like, well, this is very Harry Potter inspired as well, but with a very feminine, witchy tone instat and I definitely do recognize some things, but at the same time it's fastly different.
Yeah, I think as I mentioned, it's a little bit like fact meeting fiction. So a lot of the inspiration I took from my own life and my own practices. And then I have always kind of been a fan of the academian at aesthetic. And at some point my agent came to me and said, you know, this is actually really popular in the market right now.
It seems to be your vibe. Would you want to write something in that vein?
And I said sure, and we started brainstorming ideas and that's kind of.
How we ended up with the full story.
Yeah. No, it's it's really it's it's an awesome book at very very detailed, indeed, like very descriptive. The character like you can if you're if you have a rich imagination, you can like really just see them in your in your mind's eye. That's that's really cool. I mean, I guess speaking of familiars, that's one thing that I have been reading in your book that I haven't seen written in that way anywhere else, that they are tattooed in a way and that they can come to life.
Yeah.
So it's a lot bit of magic that's tattooed into your skin so that you can kind of pull on it when you need to have strengthen your casting. So in the book, the casters will call upon them if they have to do particularly difficult spell work, or just for a little bit of company to keep them around.
Yeah, no, that sounds I mean, I, like I said, I've never seen it written like that before, and especially when I read about it's one of the characters having a was it a crow or raising tattoo familiar?
I mean that's the character.
I have a crow tattoo myself as well.
Well, you have my familiar on your other side, darling, don't you not.
Yeah, I do, like actually have a wolf on the the other side, by the way, Yeah, thanks, thanks. They they were a there were a lot of pain six and a half and eight hours. So yeah, but you
mentioned being a witch. I mean just you know, looking at your your background, like the room you're in, it's like no way, really tell us a little about your practices and maybe how you how you have woven that into your your writings, because I mean, there's there's magical A big thank you to the sponsor of today's episode, Good Fields and their cannabis Seltzer. Cannabis Seltzer from Get good Fields is redefining refreshment with its innovative range of
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So I tend to kind of gravitate more towards greencraft and then also dreamcraft a little bit, but I don't know if you can actually see bind me. That little wicker thing is just full of all of my herbs and tinctures and all the way down.
And then I do.
A lot, As I said, I'm a lucid dreamer, and so I do a lot of my meditation and intentions and.
Practices with dreams as well.
So there's my two kind of evacillate between those two mainly, and I think that shows up in my writing a lot. So in this book there is obviously the main character also kind of has a little bit of a love for all things green and growing. And then I do have other characters and other books planned that lean a little bit more into the dreaming side of things as well, and the more esoteric side of things.
So yeah, no, it's it's dreaming. It seems to pop up more and more and more. I've actually done a show quite recently with someone who calls himself the dream Wizards, all kinds of dream interpretation, which is really interesting. Never be much of a loocid dreamer myself, but there is definitely there's there's power and Hondad. You have any things that you wanted to know, things that you familiar.
You're you're distracting me. She's talking about something. I am so sorry.
She's also extracted me if it's if it helps.
Have you practiced witchcraft your whole life or when did you start getting into it?
I think there was a I didn't fully practice my whole life.
I think I was always drawn towards it most people, but most of my friends kind of because I have gotten more intentional about it in more recent years, and people that have known me on either side of that have kind of been like, yeah, that just makes a lot of sense for you.
So there's definitely I've always.
Been drawn to the kind of magic of nature side of things, and I've always been a lucid dreamer. In fact, my whole family is I didn't realize that people weren't lucid dreamers until I was much older, because it was very normal in the family to just come down to breakfast and be like, so I had this really vivid, lucid dream last night and like detail everything.
And it wasn't until one of my friends I was like, oh, you know.
Like how in dreams you just do this and she was like, no, that's not a thing that everybody does. So that kind of got me started I think on being a little bit more intentional about it and looking into various practices and things. And then I did live with a coven of witches recently, so that definitely threw me more into the wider world of witches and the various types of witchcraft.
So yeah, oh wow, that's so your whole family has really been like a witchy family, if you will.
It's funny because the rest of them are not necessarily like they their offices don't like this, but like they're not.
They don't embrace the I guess they don't.
They wouldn't identify as witches or really embrace witchcraft, but they do just have a habit of casually dropping random things like my dad will occasionally be like, oh yeah, like you know, a prophetic dream or too. That's not a thing that normal people talk about, but they'll just talk about it as if it's very normal. But then they also won't identify as switches. Were dub into witchcraft all.
So yeah, that's interesting. So for you, it's like just normal tea talk, you know.
Yeah, but it's framed as like a completely normal it's not. It's not anything out of the ordinary until I go talk to other people and then they're.
Like, that's it's a little.
Witchy, only a little, only a little.
Trying to keep this going. I'm still a little hungover.
From last night.
The wife he told you not to drink too much because you have a guest tomorrow, and you didn't listen.
Yes, no problem. I also was I had a late night as well. I am not currently but you're somewhat decent company.
Okay, okay, Well that's that's I.
Guess I'm the only one who's like somewhat aware and awake.
Well, I mean, I'll take the wheels.
I don't know. I have so much on my plate right now with school. I can't think of anything right now. My brainch just dead.
How did you come up with the like in your book the Forbidden Practices, slight necromancy and stuff like That's that's really what people consider to be more like dark, dark kind of witchcraft, although as as you have written it, it really sounds a lot more like just mediumship, but like on a very like a higher level. Is there anything about like the well, let's say, darker side of magic. Is it's really mh that like interest you or like I.
Think I've always been kind of like interested in the macab and also you know, all things surrounding kind of death, and I mean, and so I did want to even though necromancy is in the book categorized as a forbidden magic, I did kind of want to explore the depths of it and show it in a multifaceted light rather than
just like it's evil, it's dark, nobody does it. So a lot going on with that, and I won't spoil anything that's I know you're on the entire lit but you know, as you get further into the book, it is explored, I think in more detail.
And I wanted to kind of show.
That there are multiple sides to you know, any form of magic, but this one, in particular in this world is quite misunderstood, and just I think there's a there's a point that's made in one of.
The earlier chapters, I think maybe chapter three.
But in this world, one of the reasons that this magic is forbidden is because it is one that they just don't understand and they can't control it very well, and that is why there's a lot of fear surrounding it, because it's kind of beyond the parameters of control. And that in the empire, the larger empire that this book takes place in, is not something that they enjoy.
Yeah. No, I do remember reading that, of course with the age old comments attached to it. But we don't know how to control it or you know, it could be used for like it could be used for evil or dangerous things or or whatever. That's a I mean something that is you know, of course very of these times. But an argument that really that doesn't hold any true true ground. I feel like, you know, I got my water thing right here. I can use this for bad and for good if I want to. Doesn't make it
a bad thing necessarily. But I guess with magic, it's it's a little little different. It's pretty, it's.
Innocent, you know, it's how you how Yeah, And I.
Think I think it very much depends on the person behind it rather than the practice itself, because anything can be used as a as a weapon or with ill intent if somebody is motivated enough to do that. And then so in the book, I was interested in looking
into what that looks like if everybody has magic. So it's not just like magic is bad and there's some magic users and some non magic users, like everybody in this part of the world at least has magic, and so it's more of a look at how people kind of use their various powers and you know, the ones that get maligned and the ones that are celebrated, and yeah.
Well everybody has magic aside from one, it seems. I mean, I'm only on chapter ten. I'm not I don't know how it's gonna progress. Of course, I do hope that is gonna, you know, progress how I wanted to progress,
But you know, I'll have to have to read. But just the and also what if I'm really interesting, which just thinks for incredibly good writing is of course, the main character's mother is someone high up in the school, you know, the chancellor, and she's the one who is like the outcast and all that, and how much of that is reflective on your own life and how much is just you know, I like this, you know, in in my books, So I'm gonna write like that as well.
Yeah.
So I think the in terms of like the relationships that the character has with her mother is very much kind of meant to be an echo of the larger issue at the school, where they're so focused on power and prestige and appearances to the point that it is really toxic, and I wanted to explore that on a personal level for the main character. So it's reflected both in like the larger setting and in her close personal relationships.
So that is a bit meant to be like a I wouldn't say I took that from real life, but yeah, I think there's also something about the genre of dark academia that kind of the whole esthetic of it is this really like beautiful aesthetic, but it's rotten at the core, And so there was there's something about that too that I wanted to kind of have that echo in multiple places throughout the relationships with the characters, throughout the setting
up school, throughout the larger setting, and the systems that are in place to kind of all tie together into
a commentary on that level of toxicity. And so of course having the main character sort of come from this, I didn't want her didn't necessarily come from a position of like extreme hardship, but she is a little just a little bit offbeat from everybody else because she doesn't have access to magic, and so that is a challenge for her, and I think that puts her in a unique position to really appreciate just how toxic this world that she's in is and to have a commentary on that because of it.
Yeah, now, and you've you've written that down wonderfully. I mean I'm trying to spoil too much as well, because I mean I am still fairly new to the dark academia kind of thing. It's more more my my wife's kind of gendre. I like the I like the heavier stuff. But yeah, like I love how the how it's so
incredibly opposite. And as I she my wife will be right, but she's got some connectivity issues because of course she does no I mean I I mentioned earlier how I like do some do season like Harry Potter inspiration, But this is so incredibly the main character is the the exact opposite. Really, I'd say, like she's supposed to be a witch, but as you said, has no access to magic,
doesn't really use magic. I mean the most that she does, of what everything so far is conjured her familiar ones against the most amount of magic I've seen her or have rich her doing so far, Like even her her dorm room is like nothing is magical, everything is basic, And I love that that contrast actually because in so many speaking of familiars, I yeah, this is this is my familiar. She need ak a big red Yeah, he is a sweetheart. He's a he's a pain in the ass,
but he's a sweetheart. But I like very much like the how how you've written that, because in so many books where like magic is used, it's like the whole world is magic. Everything is magic, Everyone uses magic. I mean, of course, yeah, right, sure, yeah, you you just don't care. Of course, welcome to my familiar. And she you're like the main character.
It's not that she's opposed to magic, but.
Like almost ashamed that she has no access to it.
Yeah.
I think that it's the.
Her lack of it has been such a sore point in her life for her that it is something that she really really wants. I don't know if she, I say, I don't know, like I'm not the author. I don't think it's as much that she wants it for the
sake of having magic. I think that base level, she spends a good deal of the story kind of there is something that sort of regretful or she laments the fact that she doesn't have it a few times, And I think that is because She sees it as a way to have power and prestige in the world that she doesn't otherwise have. Like she understands that that is what she would need to kind of fit into this world, and without it, there's.
Just not really much of a chance of that happening.
So she is She does spend a good amount of the at least in the first half of the story, for sure, she spends a lot of time just kind of I think sort of almost as a reaction to not having it, Like she embraces a little bit more of the mundane that is around her in kind of a spiteful way. Yeah, she can't access magic, so she said, well, if I can't access it, I'm going to.
Be like aggressively fine with where I am. But she's not really totally fine with this.
Yeah, no, it seems like very much the I mean, not that I would know, but like the struggles of a you know, a young woman growing up and coming up in the world. But it needs very spiteful like if I can't use magic, like nothing is gonna be magical, like my my dorm, Nope, even even my familiar I mean, yeah, I have one, but I'm not even gonna not even
gonna bother. It's it's it's very spiteful, but that also at the same time makes for a very interesting story and also of course has some some murder mystery to it, Yeah, which of course you know, is a very popular genre. And I do understand why. I mean, my wife and I I do hope she's gonna be able to make it back before the ends long lift technology. I mean, it's kind of witchcraft, but not you know, if you don't actually make it work using witchcraft, that'd be great.
Where I was I going with this? No, but I I yeah, it's it's not like my wife and I are friends with at least one podcaster who does you know, true crime, and it's very very popular, so you definitely know what's genres two hits.
Yeah, I mean, I think part of it is just my own interest as well, Like I've always loved a good murder mystery, and I love ghost stories, and I love magic. So this is just kind of the culmination of all of those. And they say, right, what you know? So, I mean, obviously I don't know what it's like to attend a magical university, but with some caveats.
There that would be awesome though. Yeah, that's I think that's a good one. If you like, if those kind of universities would exist, what kind of university would you want to go to? Like just let's play a little game, like imagine you're like you're perfect university, perfect magical university. I mean most of my audience are you know Heathens, which is Wigans. So we've all had our dreams. What would what would yours be? Like I've seen so many.
By now, like what kind of magic would I study there?
Yeah?
Just anything, you know, like what kind of magic? Well would you wanted to be?
Like, I mean, you created this this whole world already.
It's funny because I don't think I would actually like to attend.
Dun Hollow, which for people unfamiliar, that is the name of the university in the book, just because it is very cut throat.
And elitist and there's a lot of problems with it.
But if you know, you could have kind of a university without that and just go through the enjoyment of studying magic learning, I think that would be a lot more appealing. There are different in the books. There are different schools of magic that people can major in the same way that a lot of universities, you know, they
have different schools and programs that you can major. So if I had to pick something along those lines from from Dunhallow, I would probably pick like the College of Healing and Herbalism, or there's the College of Illusion.
And Invocation as well.
So kind of I feel like that shouldn't be a surprising answer, because that means I'm either going to be studying plants and making potions and such, or I'm going to be doing like a dream and illusion magic. And given my earlier answers that I feel like that matches.
Up pretty well for me. Yeah, here's what you would pick if you you could study it school.
What would I thig?
I don't.
I don't know. I'm not much of a magical practitioner, but I do. I love symbolism, symbolism, symbology. I love the study of that and anything practical, anything that I can, like just work with my hands. I have a no, I have a good bring. It's weird, but I'm much much better working with my hands, so god, I don't know. Actually, I would definitely join sports team.
So it sounds like if you were at you'd either be in the school of Practical spellcraft, the School of magical Theory, which is all of the theoretical magic and the study of the history of it and everything, or possibly you'd be in if you are more in the sports side of things, that would be the school of Defensive Arts, which is all the like throwing fire and ice and that kind of action based magic sort of thing.
That sounds yeah, throwing fire and ice and lightning even from what I read around. Yeah, I mean, I'd be very dangerous because I look way too excited and just be like, hey, take it. And oh maybe maybe alchemy mmm, like tinkering with stuff and making stuff go boom.
Yeah, there is there is a school of alchemy in this as well.
And I don't know if you've gotten to this part, but like all the students are known for just randomly blowing things up, and like their whole dorm hall is just like extra fortified because they know all the weird experiment.
Yeah. Yeah, I just read that, read that part shortly before I before I came on, and that that seems very appropriate. You know, of course, the halls of alchemy have to be fortified because you blow up a whole wing by doing that. Oh man, you're really getting me back into reading. I've been lacking in that lot.
No, but i've been. I've been lacking.
And I like the fantasy whichy World's building kind of things. Even though done hollow, it is very very elitist. Indeed, it's it's almost like really prep Yeah, like prep school. And she's your your main character. She's kind of a kind of enormy really.
I mean she even she is a snob sometimes too.
I don't know if you've gotten to those chapters yet, but there are times where you get you pick up that she I mean, just because she's a product of the environment that she grew up in.
She's never really been away from the school, so.
There are times where she she sounds a little snobby or elitist herself. I wouldn't say she's the worst character. She's not the guiltiest of that.
At the school.
There's definitely people who are like the antagonists and stuff, are do that a lot more than she does. But I mean, even from her kind of lesser position that she has at the school, where she's, you know, the outcast of the school. Even she will sometimes throw out a line or two where it's like, all right, it's a little judgy.
So yeah, I think that is just a product.
Yeah, I mean i'd have to like read in between the lines a little bit. I do at the what is it like the Newcomers bank Hid, like the at the beginning of.
The school year, the start of term faced?
Yeah, yeah, you.
Know open bar. Oh yeah, it definitely tastes yeah, why, it's.
Like that's the exact what I was thinking of. So yeah, she's.
Which sounds recognizable as well.
You know, if it's an open bar and everything is read, you're not going to get the expensive stuff.
They're not shelling out that much money for the open bar.
No, no, absolutely not. How much of the main character is like you, but like just bigger, grander. I mean that's in writing and in like many theatrical kind of things. I'm a big pro wrestling fan actually, and they often say that you know your character in that sport even though it's like ninety percent theater is just like take something from yourself and blow it up times one hundred.
That So, how much of the at least the main character is you, and how much of it is just you know, this is what people want to read?
Yeah, I like to.
I never really want to have what we in the writing community called a self insert, which is essentially where the author just takes themselves and makes a fictional version out of it and to kind of live vicariously through
a character. So I never really want to do that, but I do like to take, you know, a little a trait here or an interest there, and kind of put that into I really do that with every character that I write, though, Like every single character has at least one trait that I can relate to because that helps me build them as a character. So, for example, the main character shares my interest in plants. But what I say that I am like her overall in the
way that she thinks about things. No, not really, because she tends to be a little bit more callous than
I am. Like I would not want to necessarily be compared to her in that same Vein her best friend Fenn, for example, like I have like the aspect of his personality that kind of like wants to get along with everybody, and it's kinder than probably anybody else at the school, Like I amfuse a little bit of Not that I'm trying to throw myself flowers and be like I'm the kindest person ever, but like that little bit of like warmth I kind of took from I guess how I
see myself. But then I also have, like you know, in another character, some of that snark or that like sharp wit I kind of mix, and then in the antagonist I will put in some of my flos in there and explore that. So I think there's a little piece of me in every single character, not just the main character. But I think probably she has more traits in common with me, just because I am spending the
most time with her reson. But I think it's more taking those foundational traits and then drawing the lines together as they make sense with a character, rather than trying to make her an exact copy of me or something that I could relate to or you know, it's not I don't go into writing scenes with her being like what would I do in this scenario?
Like I try to make her a fully fledged all of the characters really flush out enough where in any given scene I can kind of feel like, what would they do in this situation and how it make sense for the character that I'm built thus far.
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Now let's get back to the episode.
Yeah, okay, you mentioned Wren, and I know this is gonna be spoilers, and I I hate you, but I have to know him and the main character. They have a history, if you will, history that they well can't seem to to really let go of. I don't spoilers, and I shouldn't be acting. But is it gonna like are they gonna come back together? Or is it you know, kind of I'm trying.
To think of how I can answer this without false foot No, they are not the endgame couple, I will say there. It is explored a little bit both in this book and there so there is a sequel to this book as well.
I'm actually working on a book two currently, or I.
Just finished my adits for it, and it is their relationship is explored a little bit more throughout that book as well, or.
Kind of in in the background.
Not is it?
But they're not.
They're not the the sort of couple goal of the book.
Oh okay, okay, now I have to keep reading.
You are not the only one to think that they might be though, I've had most of the people be like, oh, so they're going to get together at the end, and I'm like, no.
I mean that's it's kind of what you expect, you know, with the how like the usual teen dramas, et cetera go, it's like we know an old flame and you know, get rekindled and in the end, you know they can like it's it can just be friendship. Because of the histories, I will.
Say they like friendship is their main, like the kind of foundation of their relationship. And I did want to explore I think a lot of times in fiction we look at the romantic relationships and that's like the end, I'll be all and that is the main relationship.
We we give a lot of attention to it.
So I did kind of want to explore with Fenn and Rose how that platonic or romantic kind of those lines can get blurred and the relationship still has a lot of value even if it's platonic. And it doesn't have to be romantic to be or I guess it doesn't have to currently be romantic to be impactful.
Or you know, a very strong relationship that they have.
Yeah, no, because that's European. That's also just the sign of a very good writer. Like there are definitely some blurred lines between Rose and Fenn, you know their interactions is like will they won't they? There's the history.
Well I was also because it is a fantasy world.
I was kind of like, would they even perceive of relationships as clear cut as we tend to in our society of like you have romantic relationships and you have friendships and that is it, but like, would romantic relationships even work the same way in this fantasy world? You know, it's it's really anybody's like you get to make up all the new rules for it.
So I kind of had to.
Walk that line up, like it has to be recognizable readers who do come from this world and are going to have certain expectations, But also I wanted to play with like it's not our world, so you know, it's maybe not entirely fair to the characters to expect them to behave in the way that you know, to people might in in our society.
Yeah, yeah, okay, I get that. I mean if you're going to create a fantasy world, then you know, like by all means break all the rules.
Yeah, which is to say that a book to Polly Emory also gets explored.
So there's there's all sorts of them.
Really did I did notice that It's a shame that my my wife isn't able to get back into their quirining because this is this is up her alley. But there is some how do I put this like gender identity love thing because one professor, the one that gets a verbal beating on around around or at chapter ten, like where I left off, goes by by they I've seen it a few more times. And is that something that you purposefully have written?
Yes, they are, I.
Think again, because it is a fantasy world. I was very interested in making a world that where gender is a little bit more fluid. They use in this world, you know, a plethora of there's a plethora of gender identities and pronouns that are used. So there are characters that explore that in this world, or I guess represent that.
But I don't know.
I explore might not be the best word because I don't go into that necessarily as a storytelling aspect, But they are you know, fully slush out characters that kind of just exist and do their thing. But yes, a gender is gender and sexuality both are very, I guess, very different from in our society, at least in how we kind of have the the dichotomy and the binary that we adhere to a lot of the time.
They don't necessarily have to.
Because it is a fantasy world, and it's my fantasy world, and I'm a queer woman, so I wanted to make a very queer friendly world where people have magic and people are just people in all shapes and sizes and pronouns, and are just you know, getting up to mischief and mayhem and magic as.
They are the best triple.
And there is mischief, mayhem and magic.
No, I mean I do. I do like that, And I guess what I like most about it is how casual you have written it in and because nowadays, in you know, regular society, Gosh, I do wish I could just live in those books sometimes there's so much fuss about it, or at least online. I don't know how that is in the real world, if you know, and you know it comes with I'm Dutch and I know that here it does live but not as much as
it seems to be in the States. So it's very, I want to say, very refreshing, how casual you are about it, Like you're not making a big deal about it. It's like, yeah, they are, they're them, They're a you know, a character in this book, who are you know? Who do magic? And that's that's really It's like it's it's part of them, but it's not like the main thing.
And I do find it very refreshing. I gotta saying, you know, from all the buha and fuzz that everybody always makes about it, it's just like, yeah, this and that's it, but that's not what it's about, right.
And I think part of the reason that that's not what the story is about is because I am a cis gender woman. So I don't really feel like that's my story to tell, to like go in and delve into the nuance of those topics, because that's just that's not my personal reality. And I wouldn't want to take those stories away from the people who have them as their lived experience. But obviously people, as I said, of all you know, shapes and sizes exist in our world, and I think.
They should exist in fantasy.
Too, and you know, they have their own stories and they have their own wants and desires and motivations, and so that was kind of as I was building characters, it was just very natural. I think also because another reason that it isn't necessarily a huge focal point in the story is because in this world gender is so fluid and it's just an accepted thing. So there's not really there's never really going to be a big hella baloo made out of it because in that world, or
somebody is like, oh, these are my pronouns. That's just what people use. There's no there's no like, oh but what about this, Like everybody is just kind of comfortable and aware and we'll just roll with it like that's that's a big part of their culture or just in general in this world. So yeah, I was as I was making the characters, that was something that just I kind of went with what felt most natural for each character,
and you know, so there it is. It is very casual for I think a lot of reasons because I just and I think it's also good for people to get representations sometimes that is just showing people living their lives like people of various backgrounds and ability and gender identity, sexuality, like just living their every day lives and that every day lives might have murder, mysteries and magic, but you know it is they're just there and they don't have to you know, be a lesson or be you know,
some beacon of representation.
They can just be people.
And that was kind of what I was trying to focus on when I was writing them as just people being people. Yeah, because that is really, at the end of the day, that is what people are.
So yeah, and it's it's about the story. It's about the magic. It's about the Avengers. It's not about them. I mean, yeah, you know they go through those avengers, they practice the magic, but it's not about them. You said you were finishing up your second book, second book in the series. Can you was a little about that or is it like really no.
It's I can't say too much about it because some things aren't set in stone yet, so there's a lot about it that might still change. But it does follow Rose at another year at Done Hollow, and this time with a magical tournament taking place. So there's some other magical schools that come into the picture, and some other forms of magic that we get to explore through some new characters, and there are still the ghosts and the necromancy and a little bit of that horror element as well.
Nice, So that does come back. But beyond that, I.
Don't want to say too much more because I don't want to spoil the ending for you, Envy.
You know, some of that stuff might change from book one, sorry, from book two, like from where it is now.
But I will say that it is a little a little darker and a little sexier than Book one.
Is kind of the vibe for book two.
Okay, so close the blinds and turn off the big lights.
Yeah, my close family is not allowed to read book two.
We'll put it that way, okay, Okay, get a little smutty, okay.
Yeah.
So in the book one it is so this is adult fantasy.
It's labeled as adult, and book one, I think a lot of people are look it reads a little bit ya because they are I mean, they're younger, they're in college and everything. It earns it's adult rating. In book two, so that is why the whole series adult.
Okay, yeah, well then I know my wife's gonna love it, and probably most of my female audience.
I definitely have some friends who are gonna absolutely.
If they're Romanticy fans, they hopefully will be fans of well, hopefully the whole series, but book two really is geared more they're Romanticy people.
I'm actually I'm gonna at least send the link to your book. I'm gonna send it over to my sister. She's not, like, really a magical practitioner, but she does love a good story. And I think since she is, what is she a believe? She doesn't I mean anyway, she's some sort of sexuality as well. I don't, I don't, I don't know. She's my sister, I don't. I don't busy myself with that. But she's very very open minded and free thoughts, you know, gen Z. Of course, I
do think she'll she'll definitely like it. I mean, I know my wife is going to absolutely just devour the books.
That's such a compliment.
Yeah. No, absolutely, any plans for like another series, like are you are you going to make writing your your thing? Or is she's going to be more of a psychs project?
I mean, hopefully hopefully I can make it work full time, that would be ideal. I do have plans for I don't know about future series, but definitely future stories sometimes set in the same world to explore different parts of the larger world that dun Hollow is set in, rather than I think in this book it's a very contained setting.
You're really just at dun Hollow. You don't get to explore much else.
So I definitely have some thought and story ideas and plans around that. I do have another project that I've just started working on now that I've completed my edits, but I really can't say that much about that one because it is very very early days.
So yeah, that's definitely there's more in the works. After I read these stories.
Well, I guess I'll just have to have to keep an eye on it. So you're the plan is to really like do more of a world's expansion, because we do hear about the the other kingdoms, So is it going.
To be like more more worlds?
Yeah, I mean I would love to.
I mean, it really depends on what I'm able to write, what it is selling in the market at the time, you know, that kind of thing, So very much depending
on that. But I do have a lot of ideas that are set in various times throughout the world, so some of them will There's a lot of little throwaway lines actually in this book that I tossed in there because there are other story ideas that I have and they are meaningless to anybody but meet at this point, but I would love to explore them more and tell more stories about that so that it really does feel like a very interconnected, lived in world that has like
its own history and everything. Because I am a giant history nerd and a giant language nerd, Like I'm all about linguistics, so I do have like languages and histories and cultures and magic systems made up for all of these different places in the world, and.
I may or may not, you know, get to explore those so hopefully fingers crossed.
Oh so you have the world like build already, you just have to get it down on paper.
Yeah, the ideas stage. I'm great at the ideas stage.
It's the drafting and editing and actually getting a book written that well, we'll have to see about. But yes, yeah, there's there's a whole there's a whole world to explore in the larger setting of this book.
Awesome. Well, I am very much looking forward to finishing the book. I think you do.
I don't really have any plans for tomorrow.
So yeah, if I don't finish the book by tonight already, well, if.
You do finish it by tonight, I will take that as a huge compliment.
I mean, I'm a chapter ten. Looking at the pages, I believe I'm on about a third. So yes, the.
First half of the book is much longer than the second half.
So once you hit I think click page, the chapters get a lot shorter. There's a lot more packed into You're through the longest part already.
I think I did notice that in the first couple of chapters are really setting the scene and kind of building up the characters and the relations between the characters, setting up the spooky ghost the gross stuff.
Really yeah, the ghosts are probably way spookier than they need it to be, like Bay, grosser than they needed.
But I had a lot of fun writing the scenes.
Oh I bet, I bet, I'm actually streaming this life. I wasn't intending on doing this life, but I really got a got the question in the in the chat, where can we find your book or books? With time?
So I do have a website that should have all of the links updated hopefully. Also, I'm so the website is Emma McDonald author dot com.
And then I'm also on.
Instagram under I think it's I'm a McDonald underscore author actually, and that has ma link tree with all of the links in various places that you can buy the books depending on what country and region you're in and where it might be available.
So yeah, I mean, I was fortunate enough to get a copy in in my email. But it's it's it's worth it's so for that is am I McDonald's author dot com. Yes, awesome, And.
That's an AC for McDonald because sometimes people spell it mc.
So yeah, yeah, I mean Americans, you know, that's the only McDonald that they know.
That's true.
Yeah, I get I feel like I did that a lot because I'm in the States and people are always misspll it.
So that might just beive me think awesome, Well I am.
I'm definitely going to keep an I out, definitely going to finish book one. Any idea of when you're gonna be publishing book two. I know you're like you're still in the editing phase, which is the siest face of all.
Yeah, it's not fun.
I think I don't have an exact day, but I believe the goal is to have it out by October of twenty twenty five, so first one year after book one came out, so I think sometime just in time for Halloween next year.
I guess this is what I would say.
Of course. Of course, that was a question that I had in my mind, like did you specifically pick October?
That was not me, That was the publisher and the marketing team decided when it was going to be published. So I think they probably figured witchy spooky story a perfect time for Halloween. So that wasn't my choice, but I think that was an intentional choice.
I mean they yeah, they did.
They did right, They did catch the vibe. Yeah, So is there anything that you wanted to tell us?
Anything that I should have asked?
Maybe that's a loaded question. I can't think of anything off the top of my head.
I feel like we've covered all things witchy and writing processes and.
Books one and two. I feel like that covers all the big things.
Really.
Yeah, I mean once you're once book two is published, you are of course more than welcome to come back on. I would love to also promote your your book and hopefully, you know, turning into a series, and I'm actually reading like kind of a girly book. You know. Also how you described Wren, it's like every girl's every girl's dream, you know, Carrie, just you know, handsome and every girl wants him, and every guy wants to be him, and it's.
All the guys want him to everybody wants.
I mean, the way you describe him, I can't blame them. I really can't blame them, and I'm I'm astray, dude, but even I'm like, Okay.
I get it, I get it.
Yeah, for sure, No.
This was.
Yeah, this was great. I'm gonna get right back to reading.
I have to no greater compliment than that.
Yeah, I know for sure. I still have to do another another life stream and room room reading with you in a moment, but after that's straight reading. I'm keeping my phone on side, and then it's gonna I'm just gonna say, I'm gonna ignore the wife. But I shouldn't be doing that. Maybe I don't go that far invoke the wrath of the fire. Fay. No, thank you, yeah, no, so thank you very much for coming on. This was great having Yeah, which you writer, there are too few of those.
Well, hopefully there'll be more of us in the future. If that's john revis it gets more.
Popular, well you're setting a bar, that is, that is for sure.
Thank you?
Yeah, no, absolutely absolutely.
And yeah for everyone who has been watching. For everyone who has been listening, thank you so much. Do visit her website Emma McDonald author dot com. And it was Emma McDonald underscore author on Instagram.
Yes, I can confirm that for you quickly.
I feel like I should know that off the top of my head, but unfortunately I do know.
It is. Yeah, m A.
McDonald underscore author on Instagram and that has all of the links listed in my bio for anybody interested.
Yes, I found you. I'm gonna follow right away. So why am I reading these kind of books? And I actually I'm actually liking it. I keep surprising this though. Yeah again, thank you everyone for more than we do with the Gray Armed Pagans and The Grand Pagans Podcast. Go to our website ww dot Grey Armed Pagans dot com.
Don't forget to like, share, subscribe, leave something nice in the comments, you know, do it of your own world building in the comments, because why not, you know, or if you they can say what.
School they'd like to go onto. There is actually a quiz for that as well. Yeah, I actually will put that in my like tree so people can access that if they would like to.
There is a quiz you can find out where you would land Dunholm.
Well, I know my wife is going to take that quick right away because she can't stop taking those Harry Potter quizes. I do love her, but sometimes anyway. Yeah, thank you again. I'm definitely going to finish the book. I am looking forward to part two already, even though I haven't finished this one. Yeah, when you actually finished one, yeah, I'll definitely.
I'll leave it like a review. Can I do that on your website as well?
Leave on good Reads or story graph? I don't know what you prefer to use. I just love to get a review there.
I should have an account on good Reads, so I think that's most easiest, awesome. No, when I have finished it by tomorrow morning, I I'm probably gonna have to have it sync in a bit first because it's I mean, I'm getting there even chapter tens like things are you know, we're getting there. Yeah, thank you all so much again. This has been an amazing and I am. Yeah. I'm looking forward to having you on again when you have
finished part two. So until then, everyone, Yeah, have a good evening, have a good day, have a good wherever you are, whatever you are, and I will catch you all next time. Bye bye.
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