El Chapo's First Escape with Diane Guerrero

Hey, guys, Welcome to Greatest Escapes, a show bringing you the wildest true escape stories of all time. This is our first episode and we are kicking it off in style. I'm Arturo Gastro. I'm an actor. Not that one. No, no, not the one you're thinking about. The other one. Yeah, that's me. So you might not be shocked to hear that. I love to stir the pot. When I was younger, you know, and I've escaped some pretty crazy, life threatening situations.

I love that and I love that sound.

Diane, Tell me, what do you consider to be your greatest escape?

Oh my gosh, Well this was actually really PG compared to something that I wanted to tell you about.

Tell me all about it.

Okay, I'll tell you. I don't consider myself a bad kid, you know what I mean. But I was heavily influenced by movies like Home Alone or like basically where any little white kid was like doing mischief. I was like, it's exactly what I want to do for my career. Yes, And my mom would take me to the mall a lot. This was like during Christmas time, and so like the mall is really decorated. This is in New Jersey, this

And so like, how old are you at this point? Sorry?

Maybe like seven eight?

Okay, Okay, so child child, Sorry.

I was a child, Yeah, but I had ice in my mouth and I just I happened to drop it and it landed on someone's head and we were like, oh shit, and we went we went back and we just thought it was so funny. We just we just kept doing it and but we didn't get in trouble. It was like innocent, it was fine. It was multiple days in the shopping mall, not just that day. So the next day we went. I thought it was a really great idea. Hey, what do you think about instead

Thing to do is like I didn't throw the thing.

She was like exactly, and so yeah, and then we just booked it. But the guy did say he was going to call the cops.

Guess what, Dane, you have the guy here today, Come motherfucker, come on out, let's do this. No, we definitely played with like asbestos, like fucking rubber duckies when we were chilling anyone, like you knowitas were like, yeah, that'll be fine. It built character.

Those things hurt ye, your weapons, I know, well you.

Know, and that's and I think some of that will be relevant to our story today. So if you're ready, Diane, I'm ready, let's escape. Hey, Benja, can you give me some escape music?

There we go, Oh my god.

As a minute hand on the wall climbed towards nine, Joaquin tapped on his cell gate. The year was two thousand and one, and Joaquin was locked inside the maximum security prison in Jalisco. But it was finally that they had planned for. It was his kin Sannea hey even got everybody else just kidding, just kidding, It was not It was more dramatic than that.

Oh.

He ran through all the steps in his head, the upcoming maneuvers necessary. The rives handed off. The clock ticked and ticked and ticked. All of Joaquin's tedious calculations for a grand escape accounted to this laundry day. Today's story is about a truly infamous character.

Uh huh.

We'll get to laundry day in a second, but to start, let's go back to the beginning. He was born in the spring of nineteen fifty seven into a poor family in the rural community of Latuna, a little town in the mountains of western Mexico, which was incidentally famous for it's salma. Now it's salmon, goddamn it. It was like, I m doing the pilgrims and be like, do you guys have tuna?

They're like, sorry, it's just a salmon, just because.

Our name is Tuna, sir, Just not mean so.

So.

The nearest school to his home was about sixty miles away, and he was taught by traveling teachers during the early years. Okay, they would come stay for months for a few months before moving on to other areas. So school was never that important to Joaquin and he quit after elementary school. Okay, but this did lead to stories about how bad his handwriting was. Were you were you a good student? Then what was the subject that most tripped you out?

Math?

MATHA.

It wasn't a good math student, it really, I mean it got my armpits real.

Drink, Yeah, it got my arm pits are flowing.

It scared me. I would hide. I would hide under the desk, like every time we had to do problems on the on the pisa, whatever it is on the blackboard. Yeah, it was very scary for me.

There is very little dread, similar to that pit in your stomach when you don't have your homework right, but when you know you can't fucking do it whatever it is, it's just like you don't have it and they're gonna ask for it and it's today, and your like mouth is dry and like it's just like there's very little feelings like that.

You're like peeing your pants. Your mouth is dry, but you're very wet and others.

I was like, can you figure out the moisture, like, yeah, the distribution is not working for me. My handwriting is embarrassingly bad, though, so I just tell people that it's ase I imitated my doctor father's writing, which is not true. It's just my hands have always shaken for some reason. You're shaking now, I'm a shaky guys, shall Yeah, Jimmy shakes over here. So for Joaquin, penmanship didn't really matter that much. No, no, because he had other work to do.

Yeah.

So during harvest season, Joaquin and all of his brothers were busy hiking from farm to farm cutting buds of one kind or another.

You know.

Now, his past is a little hazy, but as the legend goes, Joaquin's dad worked as a driver and the boys would cut in stack and then their father would drive the harvest to suppliers in Juliakan and Juan Muchil. Yeah, but there is one major problem with his arrangement. So Joaquin's dad was supposed to sell the crops and then come back home with the money, but instance he would collect the money and immediately go on a fucking bender dude, like drink sex, whatever, crazy shit he felt like he was.

He dipped into the stash.

She dipped into the set. You never go into your o stash, the number one rule. You don't go into the set. Bro. You're never talk about my club, and you don't go into your own stash. Right, that's such a classic story of the fields sometimes where the father's just like, h I could use this not all the time I knew, but like I could use this to you my family. Or there's a saloon over here. I don't know why.

This is like the West saloon.

Yeah that's right, it's.

Okay, very western.

Yeah, you never know. It's not like it's the eighteen hundreds. For fuck it. We'll suspend in this belief. So obviously, Joaquin was extremely tired of this year after year, Right, He wanted more than just grinding poverty for himself and his family, which, to be honest, fare, so he saved up balloon money until he could move away from home and to start his own marijuana plantation. Oh he's an industrial list. Good for him, Good for him, he said, up his spot close to the bigger town of Baddi

Like for sure?

Uh, Baddy got Thank you for indulging me. I love that. But the crazy thing was that this whole start my own farm thing when he was only fifteen, that's when it happened. And he brung brought along people in his family to help him. Brung, he brung along people in his family to help and get the mistake number one rule.

You don't talk about fight club, you don't go into your own stash, and you don't bring your own family to your business.

It's a big misry the business. So by twenty he was married and he was starting to make some real money enough to support all of them. Wow, And and everybody's like, oh my god, I knew he was always going to make something of himself, And like, yeah, no, you didn't know you didn't, but okay, one thing to know about Howking is he was pretty short. Okay, he only grew up to be five foot six. It had kind of a stock if you sik. And that's what gave him his nickname. It was slang for shorty. Do

Oh my gosh, shivers down my spine.

I know that. I don't know who that whose voice that was, but it was really into my soul.

Oh my gosh.

Yeah, can you believe so? In one of all the nickname for for short people is chaparros. What is it in Columbia? Do you guys have one? Okay?

That's like like like no, like what is it?

Like little gnome?

Little like little gnome?

Yeah, and so fucked up that we are like it's like that's what you'll be known for your entire life. If you're growing up in Latin America, you get one nickname, and.

That's one nickname. It's and it's attributed to your physical whatever, always.

With what you can see.

They're like, that's rude, and it's like now we're like in this phase of like, oh we're starting to to it's like, don't comment on my body, don't like talk about my physical attributes. But Latin America don't care.

But in Americas you're like, yeah, yeah, if you're dark, you're the dark one. If you're like light, you're the light one.

You know, you're like machete. If you killed somebody one time with a machete.

Can you believe you kill somebody one time and they call you machette forever? Like that's unfair. They give me a chance. So yes, you got him. And Chapel's full name was Juaquin Archivaldo Guzman nomine like a soap opera star, and you know, and by the seventies he had caught the attention of some really big players in Mexican cartels. I want to say his name one more time, just

You also have like five names Yeah, what is your name, Diane Guerrero. No, there's I don't have a second name. I guess my mom. My mom's name is Bessera.

Okay, Dian Gerrero Beserra.

Diane Gerrero Beerra.

See. I expect you by the end of this podcast to start hyphenating that ship. I know, I do want to unpack something. Did you ever consider changing your name to something less Latino when you were starting out?

No, you know what, I was always really proud of the name Guerrero, and it was my dad's name.

By the way, it means warrior in Spanish.

You guys, Yeah, it's really what like I felt inside of like who I was, and I really wanted to honor my.

Father one hundred percent. I considered it for a brief second, just because I'm jos Erturo Castro, you know, and like I got like the first when I first moved to the States, people couldn't really pronounce Arturo, and I was like, fuck that, I have to change it. And then I met this director called Angei Karkowski's and he's like, He's like, kids, if they can say name, they gonna say.

You know.

And I've been this ever since.

You know, what name did you What name did you consider?

You don't want to know. Please make me do don't make me do this in front of my Film Nation buddies, you know what, they get them, get them down by. So it was gonna be it was going to be Joe Descant, Joseph Descent with an apostrophe. Let me walk you through this, Yes, let me walk you through this. Okay. So my first name and I was like, Joseph fucking easy. And then my mother's maid enim name is Ruis Santiso,

This is my podcast. Now get used to it. Joseph, you call me out, Ben Wow, I'm glad you kept Thank you.

Joe Dessant is leaving the building. So after a little while, he wasn't working for himself anymore. No, no, no, Instead, old Chapel was employed by the drug lord Ecto Eluero Bama, and the chapel was trusted with the difficult stuff. Right. He transported drugs and supervised shipments from the Sierra Made region to cities on the US and Mexico border, and the chapel was super ambitious. The little guy, oh my god, you know, little a pinch him if it wasn't such

Right.

In fact, one story says that he basically never talked about anything else. That Chapo. He's always talking about drug business. Wherever he is, with whatever people he's with, he's talking about drugs. Is this an Italian Mexican dude, Toria? Or where's he? Where's he from? A fucking COMI Tori, I produced everybody. Have you ever gotten so obsessed with one particular thing that you start to annoy your family and friends because you can't talk about anything else?

The Fresh Prince of Balat song, I just couldn't stop singing it. No, yeah, yeah, for a while.

I just I worked for ten years.

I don't. Yeah, exactly exactly. I still do to this day. But there was like definitely a one week where I just kind of like just became obsessed. I just was like, yo, I can rap now.

Yeah No, So like, you know, you got in one little little fight and your mom got scared.

You know, Yeah, moving with you, Auntie and uncle and ballet.

Do it, don't do it.

Georgia's song is gonna come so for a cab and when it came near. Sorry, but Chapa was like this, he was like, you couldn't stop talking about the business.

Yeah, let's go back to a chapel. So in November nineteen eighty four brought a little shake up to the business. So the Mexican military got a hot tip from an inside man. He got the hot goss right that cheese me and they rated a large marijuana plantation owned by the Wild Hata cartel known as Francho Buffalo. So in nineteen eighty five, the cortel figured who the snitch was and killed them because that's what these mass murdering fuck

They rented like a huge spa, like like a whole like hotel.

They're like, don't come in here until your cheese. The line, guys, your cheese, not fucking a ligne. I Hey, hey, Chapel, a little more margerite up on the chapel, please, thank you so much. Find your voice, find your inside voice, and then talk to me.

We had like group games trying to like, you know, get to know each other and everything. Trustful icebreakers.

Yeah, it's not your fault. It's just a bunch of fucking rounds. Being like it's not your fault, and like crying into each other like uh, goodwill hunting. It was really actually yeah, the most emotionally connected moment for all cartels.

Wow.

So after this peaceful retreat, they all agreed to divide up the territories previously controlled by the Wada Lajarak. So that's when the scene la cartel was formed under three traffickers, right, including a chapel but he was really the one in charge. But the meeting didn't really set up a happy split between the groups. It was less like cutting the cake so that everybody got a slice, and more like drawing the battle lines just to see what side everyone was on.

That's a good one. I've been practicing now.

And for a little while it seemed like life was good for the chapel. He started raking in millions and he knew what to do with it. As the story goes, he bought himself four jets, and he had ranches in every state of Mexico, not to mention houses on every beach. Oh and yeah, he built his mom a little church right by their house. It's is that a Heavenly give me that again? He built a church right by his house.

Good for you because he might have been on Tapa. But he's like he still like loves his believes in the first community.

But it's exactly, it seems like it's always intertwined, right, Like these absolute lunatics always seem to consider themselves religious. It must be part of our culture, I guess, Like, I don't know, it's your family religious.

Not intensely so, but I mean it's they still, yeah, believe in God, and everything is cudio skid it? You know, everything is it sudio skid it this or that? And I think that those guys they have to believe in God because their survival has dependent really on that, like on the fact that like God is with them, you know what I mean, And the way that they repent is by giving money to the church.

It seems like these psychopaths or like people, murders, tyrants, they always a line themselves to the church in order to try to pay their way out of their sin or their guilt, you know.

I mean, church is kind of like the original kind of sin. Yeah, right, I mean, no, they're but they're like bad folks, right, I mean, if we think about the Christian Church and everything that they did.

I mean, I mean legally, I can't say that out loud because they own the rights of my career. But yeah, I am, I'm I'm not nodding, but I'm nodding. Yeah.

No.

You know, if if Chapel had a church, it was probably his ranch in Guadalajada, and that's where he built his own zou full of panthers and tigers and lions and deer. Plus thank you for this, so yeah, very nice. Plus there was a little train that you could ride around to see.

It all much never Land. He had like a never Land situation.

Kind of like never Land, but way less dangerous. Oh oh by the way. Chapel had also had four wives. I'm not sure how that worked out, but maybe each of them stayed in a different jet I don't know. Or he went to Bernie Man and pitched like ethical non monogamy.

You know, he's like, we all.

Love each other, but we don't want to be with each other that way. Chapel was making friends outside of Mexico two for instance, the Million and in Colombia, they found that he was the most efficient of the Mexican operators. Yeah. Wow, no one could smuggle north across the US board as fast as Chapel. To the Colombians, he was less a Chapel and more rapid.

Wow.

Do you have a favorite nickname that somebody has ever called you?

I mean it's really offensive.

Ship, Like, you don't have to like go deep that way if you don't want.

People called me Shrimpo Shrimpo. Okay, if you must know.

Because you were tiny, Yeah, Chapel was taken, so people called you Shrimpo.

Chapa was taken, so people call me Shrimpo.

They called me Joe Dessant. It was weird.

One day I was like going into like you know, Sunday school or whatever. We were practicing for like a big play or whatever, and I come in and these kids are laughing, and I was like, what's so funny? And then somebody starts saying shrimpo son so bitches, and I was like, what's happening? And They're like, they're calling you shrimpo and I was like, why are they calling you shrimpo?

And I'm going to need you to write down their social Security numbers and their names. We're going to get Film Nation to fucking publicly cut off their their access to any Film Nation. Films.

Film Nation have this much power.

You don't know. You know, we do them straight. We got this, don't worry that yet. We got this.

I got it joint to sign that's.

Showing the sun. So anyway, of course, a chap point Is cartel were also making enemies, right, for instance, with the other Mexican cartels. In the spring of nineteen ninety three, and Chapel pulled up to the Wada La Airport in a white Mercury Grand Marquee. As his driver parked the car, a group of men rushed forward and blasted the car with a hill of bullets. Right normal shit in Mexican. Dirk cartels, right, But El Chapel ran for the terminal,

International crosshairs. What do you mean? Like that means like Italy called and was like, you killed one of us. He's done.

Yeah. Yeah, Italy was a was a mechanic from the pre hold, New Jersey. But yeah, exactly. So cardinals are like one step down from the pope. So anytime one of them dies, it's a huge deal. And even more if it was a murder, Chapel now had the attention of the world, right, and now he also had the attention of the Mexican government.

This is nineteen eighty five.

Nineteen eighty five, yeah, okay, okay, the year I was born. Where ye wear were you were born?

Eighty six babies?

Oh, I'm old man than you.

Is he still alive, by the way, yes, okay, good, good, good.

But so so feel good. So as a fence closed in, Chapel decided he would rather try to slip away from the scrap than try and deal with the authorities. So to get out from the limelight, hwalking and his girlfriend decided to take a trip to Guatemala. Why the fuck was he in Watemala?

Get out of Guatemala, Get on.

Actually Chapel was apparently trying to drive to Elsa to try to start a business connection.

There, but you know he was he ended up in Guatemala.

He was driving through Watemala because it was just on the way, and he was like, actually, this is kind of nice. And I don't blame him because the waterm that's the shit.

So yeah, I've actually been seeing more of Guatemala on your trips. I'm like, I'm online stalking you and I'm like, what is he doing it? And that's right, guatemalaks gorgeous.

The whole point in my career is to take tourism away from Costa Rica. That's all. There is one big long play from the Watermelon Tourism Board to just make sure that I get more than one person there a year. I'm going I'll give you all the good spot I got something that will take care of you. It's our producer from a film nation.

I love it.

We got you, Kevi. Don't worry, don't worry.

Thanks guys.

So, to make sure that this trip was totally under the radar, and Chapel paid a Wanmalan military official one point two million dollars to allow him to hide south of the Mexican border. Yeah, so the guy took the money, but he would also passed on the information about El Chapels. Whereabout the law force? The fuck them both. But also, you can't trust the guy who's already corrupt, buddy boy. Right.

I get scared?

Who saw you on?

I don't like authority? Okay, well, not that I'm not on the Chapel side, but I gotta say I'm not on the fucking military side either.

Okay, fair enough, fair enough, So They loaded him on a military plane and flew him back to Mexico. But on the ride, Chapel was interrogated and he confessed to a ton of crimes. Apparently he could still only talk about one thing. Like everybody's like, you need to tell us all about this. No, no, no, no way, wait till you hear this one. So when he landed, a Chapel was taken to Federal Social Readaptation Center number one, a maximum security prison in Alas. It needs a new fucking name.

No? It snow Alcatraz.

Yeah, it needs a name like El Spot or whatever the fuck you know. So the Chapel was sending to twenty years and he was transferred to a different maximum security person in Halley School, Federal Social Readaptation Center number two. So, uh, this one, this, this one went by a much catcher name. Apparently it was called Puente. Oh it was a big bridge, good for you guys. But by putting a Chapel in a cell that wasn't gonna be enough to shut that down.

Way, you just like pooped your pants.

Well that no, because I was a pupilio by the way, because my friends are. When I was thirteen, I met the high schoo kids. They were older, and they taught me all my fucked up ways, Like they taught me how to smoke cigarettes and like, and I was like, I'm thirteen be doing this, but I.

Want to, but you were like really cool. So they're like Poopies.

Yeah, they called me, oh man, that's like our little mascot. That's like our little paddaw on the Poopies. But the problem with that nickname is that everybody assumes immediately like just to shat myself.

You know, uncontrollably all the time.

It didn't come on until later on in life. And that's how I got this podcast. Anyway. So during his time in the Clink, and Chapel even met his longtime mistress former police officer a name Sulima. She was serving time for arm robbery.

I love it.

Oh yeah, fucking yeah, Hey, hey jinks, hey jings, buddy boy. Apparently Chapel spotted her during a family visitation time and started sending her flowers, love letters, and even a bottle of whiskey that the guards brought to her. Oh my god. They say romance is dead, you guys, But no, not for a family visitation means that his family aka his wife, was fucking visiting him and he's like, who's that over there?

So the United States basically brought him.

By fucking accent, So they brought him, no, no, no, not yet no, but a ruling from the Supreme Court made it easier. Right, So before that it was kind of like, you know, you could stall it forever. But now it was basically in the works, and the Chapel didn't intend to get shipped to the United States, so he set a plan into motion.

Wait a minute, so he got extradited to the United States.

Yet, but the threat was imminent, right, and suddenly became a real possibility. So he started the plan to get the fuck out of prison, which brings us to the year two thousand and one and the escape the first and made El Chapel famous as an escape artist. Or in other words, we're finally back till laundry day, Diana, Are you ready for this? Yes, that's rock and roll. So the plan starts with a prison guard nicknamed El Chito or the silent one. All right, so he was

Oh yeah for sure.

Okay. From there on, the route was simple but strewn with obstacles, and Chito would have to roll the laundry cart through multiple security checkpoints where a guard could look down through the glass and see who was waiting at the door. But of course it Chito was a familiar figure doing a familiar job, so the guards let him pass through the doors one by one, pushing the cart

Goose you say j g L, also known as with the actor's name j g L.

Joseph Gordon love it.

Yes, yeah, dude, he's L Chappo. I knew it.

You are the fucking Chappo. I knew it. His career started around the same time that fucking escape happened. That's wild, that's right. And remember though his handwriting was so terrible, right and chappos so she probably didn't know what the fuck he was saying. It was just like, I don't like this is just a bunch of scratches.

Was he like, I'll be back for you.

No, no, no, no, he was just like he was just like, it's been fun, see you later. Hey, let me ask you something. Has ever has anyone ever made a love gesture to you that was like that really turned you off because it was so grading?

Yes, names okay, so let me tell you something. It was I was dating this guy and like I went over his house. He like made dinner. It was like really nice, and then you know we're we're like kind of like laying on his bed and I like look over and on his nightstand is a picture of me with my prom date. It was a picture of me and my prom date, like a prom picture of me. He had it framed, and I was like, what.

Do you He didn't go to high school with you? No, from your Facebook or whatever.

I don't know where he got it from, but yeah, he took a picture of me with another guy and it was on his nightstand and I thought, I was like, what is this?

Oh my god, that's so fucking creepy.

It was so creepy.

But you're still together to this date, which is always happened. Now we're it and now we're check it out.

No, and then check it out. His ex girlfriend came later.

That day to could like to start to start some ruckus at the apartment to.

Start some ship ready, and this kid sticks me in the closet. Dude, I felt very unsafe, very you know.

Oh my god, I'm so sorry that happened to you. So my biggest turn off is when I when I was when I was single, and I would go to a girls house and she didn't have fucking pictures of me and my promp printed on her fucking night side. I'm like, how do you do? You not give a fuck about me? Done? Done? You're done to me, kidd. So back to the Chapo. So once his tender Little

He paid for our job.

So for more than thirteen years, Mexican security forces coordinating many operations to re arrest El Chapel, but their efforts were largely in vain. He appeared to be always a few steps ahead of his captors, like in his early days, when a Chapel moved away from Natuna to fire up his business. He wouldn't stay hidden in the boondogs forever. But that's another story for another day. That's our story.

What, oh my gosh, I actually didn't know much about a Chapel.

I didn't know about this. This, I didn't know about his first escape. I knew about the second one that we'll cover at a later date.

I never knew. I didn't know he was such a romantic. But I should have known because of the whole cape they I mean to go down because you were like this much in love with someone is.

Being a hornball listen. So so in order to wrap up, wrap up the show, I want Benchuk to play that romantic music again. I mean, I'm a terrible singer, but you're such a wonderful singer. Maybe we'll like sing back, like we'll invent what Sulema's response was to him, and we'll just a little back and forth once once, once or twice back what do you think?

Okay, that's soulem Chaito?

Is that you.

See?

Because I have to go meet Okay del Castillo. See did you leave.

A big fat bag for me?

I have nowhere else to go. Poo poo when I was hiding in the laundry. Back, but I love you. I will be back, Pito.

Miquel.

No, I just have to go make a film career and work with Jonathan Nolan, with Chris Nolan.

But I'm pregnant. I have your child.

His name is Chuckie. Oh my god, what a fucking pleasure to have you come back anytime? Will we come back and visit it sometime? Please?

Absolutely, Thank you so much for having me.

Hey, so listeners can find you on the socials, of course, but also catch you in the upcoming film The Whistler and the final season of Doom Patrol.

Final season of Doom Patrol.

Yes, you can catch that in HBO Max.

Yeah, that's right, HBO Max first season. If you haven't watched Ganto and heard me sing.

I mean, god, you're so good in that. I can't I can't believe that. You know what, I was so proud of I watch you performing the fucking Oscars, Diane.

That I was really really nervous. I mean, of course, I was just like I don't know, I don't even have words for it, but it was a really beautiful experience just to like I've watched that show every year, it just kind of like made me feel closer to the possibility of like ever I just I mean, I was just kind of like, I can't believe that I'm in a film that is being recognized, and not only that, but a film that has that has such close ties to my my family and my culture and my country.

Latino joy and to Latino that that it's not about the tragedy of being Latin.

But ABI ex actually I'm just like, yeah, I'm like, I'm like happy. You know, it was, it was a beautiful experience. It was.

It was wonderful to see you there. Thank you, Thank you so much for being here. This is great as Escapes guys, and until next time, make sure to not leave a love letter behind.

Goodbye, everybody.

Grace Escapes is a production IF I Heard Radio and Film Nation Entertainment in association with Gilded Audio. Our executive producers are me are Turo Castro, Alyssa Martino and Milan Papelka from Film Nation Entertainment, Andrew Chug and Witning Donaldson from Gilded Audio, and Dylan Fagan from iHeartRadio. The show is produced and edited by Carl Nellis and Ben Chubb, who are also, respectively, our research overlord and music overlord.