Dragnet: The Big .38 (EP1706)

Welcome to the Great Detectives of Old Time Radio from Boise, Idaho. This is your host, Adam Graham. If you have a comment, email it to me Box thirteen at Great Detectives dot net, follow us on Twitter at Radio Detectives, and become one of our friends on Facebook, Facebook dot com slash Radio Detectives.

The story you are about to hear is true, only the names have been changed to protect the innocent.

Drag Met.

You're a detective sergeant here assigned to robbery detail. A store clerk has been murdered, shot to death in a robbery. The hold up man is described as tall, well dressed. He escapes in a taxicab. Your job, get.

Him drag Met the documented drama of an actual crime. For the next thirty minutes, in cooperation with the Los Angeles Police Department, you will travel step by step on the side of the law, through an actual case, from official police violence, from beginning to end, from crime to punishment. Dragnet is the story of your police force in action.

It was Friday, August seventeenth. It was hot in Los Angeles. We were working the NiFe Watch out of robbery detail. My partner's Ben Romero. The boss is Captain Walker. My name is Friday. Was eight thirty five pm when we got to the Church of Saint Damien.

The vest of you.

That must be her playing the organ. Yeah, I don't see any stairs. I wonder how you get up there to the loft.

Looks like that might be the sect and no one there. Let's ask her.

Excuse me, sir, we're looking for an Ernestine Matthews. Understands she's the organist here.

At the church.

Oh that's her playing up there now, fighting over a few pieces for Sunday.

Could you tell us how to get up to the choir officer?

Surely through that door over there, follow the stairway straight up, cad miss thank you? Sure has been a long time. What's that climbing stairs to acquire a lot? Saying a lot in church? When I was a kid, the boys brano?

All right?

Can finally throw me out a boy's cheane?

Yes? Did you want? Are you missus? Ernestine Matthews? Yes?

Did you come about the new flow books?

No?

Ma'am? Police officers, Oh, can I help you?

It's about your husband. Was Matthews burt?

What about him?

Has brit done something?

He was hurt?

Ma'am.

I don't understand Bert's working at store?

What do you mean he was hurt? I was a hold of dear.

God, my husband.

Was he hurt? Bad? Where is he?

I've got to go to him. Is he in pain?

No, ma'am, what are you trying to say? God, tell me the truth? Which hospital is he in?

It took him to Georgia Street. They helped him all they.

Could, Not trying to tell me the BRIT's dead. Not trying to tell me that are you?

I'm sorry man.

In the past sixteen days, seven armed robberies had been committed, apparently with the same man. The suspect was described by victims as tall, heavily built, and very nervous.

He was armed.

It's cold logic that every suspect who was armed in the commission of a robbery is a potential killer. It's a fact that's been proved one hundred times over. The man we were after had proven it again. We'd used every means at our disposal to identify him through the Stats Office, the Record Bureau, latent fingerprints, through informants and witnesses. We'd gotten not an APB on him containing his description and his method of operation. We'd maintained stakeouts. We hadn't

He died almost.

Instantly in the hold up man escape was only one witness, another clerk who had been on duty in the store with Matthews at the time of the hold up. His name was Jess Tallman. He was brought to the city hall, where we questioned him further. Did you see Bird's wife?

Does you know?

Yeah?

We dropped off at the church on the way and drover to his sister's place.

Still can't get it through my head. One minute I was talking to brit the next minute he was dead. It's kind of hard to take, you know.

I'd like to go over that description of the hold up man. You were pretty upset out there at the story. Do you feel up to it now? Yeah, I'm okay, All right now. You just take it easy, tell us everything you remember, and take all the time you need.

Well, I know he was a big guy, over six foot anyway, I'm sure that he had a good build too.

Wasn't skinny?

How about his face? Yes, you get a good look at it, yeah I did. It was thin and he kept working it around you know, twitching like guy who's bloody nervous.

Can you tell us anything else about it?

He was young, about twenty one, I'd say, had dark color eyes.

That's about all I'd swear to sergeant. He had a hat on, I know that.

How about the rest of his clothing.

I wouldn't be sure about it. Have been a great blue coat, I don't know. I wouldn't want to give you a bump stare.

Did you get a look at the gun?

I couldn't miss that. It was a big one. It wasn't shine. He was kind of dark, blue collar. I can see the guy now walking in the store and pointing it at Burt.

What time was that again, Jess? When the bandit showed up.

Just about seven thirty. Bert was behind the counter. I was in the back stacking the shelves. The guy just walked in, point of the gun, said give.

Me the dough.

I heard him say that. Bert was kind of surprised. He just stood there for a minute and the guy said, hurry up, give me the doll. Bert said, okay, you can have everything, and he reached to get the door from the cash register.

That's when the guy did it. He hit Bert right in my chest.

What happened? Then?

Bert moaned a little fell down on the floor. I got some mad.

I started running for the guy, but he swung around at me with a gun and said stay where you are.

Yeah, I didn't want to get killed.

I stopped.

You can't blame me for that, can you?

Did you follow the man when he left?

Well, you see, he backed out of the store, and when he got to the sidewalk, he jammed the gun in his pocket ran down the street. I ran out after him. So I'm jumping a taxi cab and take off.

Did you get the CAB's number?

Well, it was too far away for that, at least halfway down the block. I know somebody else must have been driving it, though.

How do you know that the CAB's.

Already moving when the hold up guy jumped in and got in the front seat.

How do you know it was the front seat and not the back The.

Way those cab doors open, you know, front doors swing out to the left, back when swing out to the right.

That ties in. Joe used the same memo, I was the hold ups last week. Yeah you got anything else to add?

Yes? And you think we ought to know?

It's about the size of it. Sergeant, you don't think I'm yellow, do you?

Well? What do you mean?

I mean?

Because I stopped when he pointed the gun at me. I guess I should have grabbed him. But that gun looked as big as a cannon. Let's face it, I'm not that much of a hair.

I'll put in with you. Yes, neither am I.

Along with the team of men from Homicide Detail, we continued our investigation of the hold up and killing. Ballistics reported that the slug's taken from the body of Burt Matthews had possibly been fired from a thirty eight caliber Colt Revere. The slugs were in good condition for identification. All the possible suspects picked from the mud books by the victims had been checked out. All of them had

No mate. We tried to check the taxi cab used in the escape. We got nowhere. The morning after the Matthew was killing, we got a call.

From Sheriff's Homicide who went across the street and checked with Inspector Bowers.

Either one of you remember that case. About six months ago, the Harry Solomon killing.

Oh yeah, inspect here. It's pretty vague right now. Your men handled it at Connecky.

Yeah, let me lay it out fair. It's just possible. It might tie in with that killing you fell as had last night.

And what's the angle.

Harry Solomon was a taxi cab driver. The night of February twenty sixth somebody saw him pick up a fair at Sunset and Highland about ten thirty pm.

That's the last time.

He was seen alive.

Yeah, I think I remember.

The next morning, we found Solomon's body in a ditch out in the valley, two thirty eight slugs in his head, found his cab a few yards up the road, abandoned.

I used a thirty eighth same kind of gun used on last night's job.

There's something else that ties him, yeah. A description of the passenger Salomon picked up at Sunset and Hyland the night he was murdered.

The last fairy ever handled.

White male American over six feet tall, heavy bill age twenty twenty one, dark eyes, had a dark suit on the half.

Matches up all the way down the line.

You had a robbery motor figured on the Solomon killing, didn't you.

That's right, except for a five dollar bill hidden in as well. That Solomon didn't have a penny of his receipts for the night might have been another reason behind the killing.

Besides that.

Yeah, it's just barely possible. Solomon might have known the hold up man.

The guy who killed it.

How do you figure it?

Solomon had been a cabby for fourteen years before he was murdered from this hold up man's moo, using cabs for a getaway car. It's possible he might have been a cab driver at some time or other.

I mean, if the kell had got in a cab and thought Solomon recognized him was suspicious.

That right could have been reason enough for him to kill ill Solomon. I know there's a lot of kods and ifs and maybees in it that I thought you might be interested.

I would check it out first thing. How are your men coming on the Solomon face? Rod?

This is pretty slow.

We'll keep you posted on anything new for if we can help.

We know, right bye, two sets of thirty eight slugs?

What do you think?

Let's ask the crime LAMB.

We put in a request to RUSS Camp and Ballistics to check the thirty eight slugs found in taxi driver Solomon's body against those found in the body.

Of grocery clerk Burt Matthews.

Then we contacted the special agent at the taxi camp company. We asked him for pictures of all their drivers employed by the company during the past year who were six feet and highter over.

He told us if they'd have a file ready for us.

The following morning, we drove back to the office and checked in with Russ Camp at the crime lamb.

He was examining the thirty eight slugs under the comparison mind.

Just a few more match fellows have a share, Yeah, not much luck so far.

Well well yeah, well that's it. Yeah, no, make these slugs come from two different guns.

That night, two more armed robberies were committed, one at a liquor store, the other of a cafe. In both cases, the hold up man escaped in a taxi cab. The description of the man who robbed the liquor store matched that of the bandit who shot and killed Bert Matthews. The big switch came when we checked the cafe hold up.

There.

The victims described the suspect as short and fat with dark blonde hair. He had a deep scar on his chin.

During the robbery, this suspect had become so nervous that he'd dropped his gun, but he'd succeeded in getting outside and escaping in a taxi cab before it could be apprehended. The gun was taken back to Lake and fingerprints and checked was clean. Russ Camp checked it through ballistics.

Some days, I like this, what do you mean that cab driver Solomon was shot with a thirty eight?

Yeah?

Bert Matthews was shot with a thirty eight, A different one though, it's kind of Bandit dropped tonight.

It's a thirty eight too, you know, we know that what are you getting at?

It doesn't match either case.

The next morning we started working one of the few leads we had left. We drove down to the taxicab company and collected the pictures of all the drivers that they employed during the past year, who were six feet and highter over the.

Eighty seven of them.

We started checking them out. That's what the working detective calls legwork. It's slow and it's tedious, and you're not sure it's going to amount to anything even by the time you finished. Two nights later, the taxicab banded hit again. His first repeater a restaurant in South figure Row. He robbed the same place less than three weeks before. Ben and I interviewed the manager of mister Cavallo.

Tell you, sergeant, I can't take any more of it.

Twice in one month.

Yes, sir, could we talk back then? In one of the bullets.

Oh yeah, come on, you've got a good look at the man. Did Jimmys Cavallo two feet from him face for the first time. It's not a joke, you know. So.

I have no time for the customers, and too busy opened.

The cash box for that thief.

Yeah, shut up.

Thanks.

Well, when you're positive it's the same man who robbed you before, there's no question there none.

I'm positive. And he used the same moo too, Yeah sure mo, what's that?

Excuse me?

I mean he used the same approach, the same method of operation. Everything was the same, the man, the gun, the taxi cab, everything.

You didn't get the number of the cab. I looked for it and see any must cover it up, someway. Well, we've got some pictures here, mister Fallow. We'd like to have you a look at him. Just tell us if you recognize any of them, I won't do any good.

I already did that. They showed me pictures the last time. This is a different lot. Oh all right, quite a few of them.

I like to have you check each one of them careful, if you would just take your time.

We can't sit here without coffee, Natalie, Well, I wouldn't, Natalie.

I don't care for him. I don't be silly.

You can't work without eating, Natalie. Coffee?

Three? And now where do wife start?

Well, he's right here. If you just check these over.

Please, uh no, not him?

Uh uh, not him either?

Oh, thank you, thank you.

Oh it's hot. No, not that one.

No?

Is that all?

No, that's some more here. Yeah.

Oh hey, that's an ugly looking guy.

I don't look at that scar.

You look familiar.

No, better check with his skipper when we finished year. It's been a couple of hours in him that allows you. No good cease right here?

This one?

That's a guy.

You're sure?

I open my cash box twice for might No, his face in a.

Million Morris Copley age twenty one description matches.

It's copin.

Thanks Mitch, cell.

It's only forty minutes since the robbery's probably not even home yet, What can you do?

We'll wait up. Ten thirty pm.

We park down the street from five twenty seven Dayton Avenue, a two story white stucclel apartment house.

We checked the.

Names on the mailboxes. Morris Copley's wasn't on any of them. We rang for the manager.

Copley Mars Copelan. No, he doesn't live here, never heard of him.

I wonder if you'd take a look at this man this picture, ma'am. Have you ever seen this man before?

Let me get over here in the line. Let me say now, No, it doesn't.

Live here, and you've never seen him before.

No, I didn't say that. I just said he doesn't live here.

You haven't seen him before.

I believe in my time is matter of fact. I'm sure of it. The friend of mister Touben's apartment five comes to visit mister Tauben every now and then.

This is mister Tobin in now man, we like to talk to him.

Nory not it works nice, never comes home for two a m. Yeah, here's a cab driver.

You are listening to dragnet authentic stories of your police force in action.

Ten five pm, in the presence of the manager We made a search of the apartment registered in the name of Ralph Tobin, the man who was supposed to be a friend of the suspect Morris Copley. We found nothing that would tie either of them up with the robberies and the killings. Before the manager returned to her apartment, we instructed her to say nothing about our being there in case Tobain or Copley returned. We called the office and told him we received an identification on Morris Copley.

One for.

Somebody's coming. Run back your kitchen door, May you back or right?

Hold it right there? Mister police officers?

Oh Fanny, why is this a stick up?

Police officers?

Explain, Joe, what's it all about? What do you want you?

Ralph Tobin?

That's right, this is my apartment.

You know him, Morris Copley.

Copley, Yeah, I know him. You're looking for him. He's not here. We know that, we're wish I know I'm looking for him too. He owes me money.

Hopefully he's a pretty steady visitor here, Is that right?

He was till I let him at sixty five dollars. I haven't seen him since he took off.

When was that? When? About two weeks ago? Just about?

Look you mind if I sit down, I'm a little nervous. Go ahead kind of sets you. You know, why are you looking for Maury?

Like to have you repeat what you said when you came in that door, what I said as to your word and they I mean before that said, I don't think I know what you're getting that officer.

You said, Maury, you're back already, not what you said.

Yeah, I guess I did.

I guess I thought Maury came back to pay me the sixty five y bared You didn't make it sound like a dove, and I got the idea you were expecting inspecting him. I haven't seen more in two weeks, maybe three. It took me for sixty five hours.

Right, that's enough small talking, Missus. Copley's in deep. You're going to match him if we don't get a straight story.

Some cans of beer in the refrigerator, let's have one around.

I get the beer where's copy.

I'll swear in the Bible if you want me to. I don't know. Look if Maury pull anything heavy, I'm not in on it.

Ben, you want to check with the manager. Ask her when's the last time she saw Copley here?

Yeah?

Right now, Wait a minute, officers, I want to cooperate.

Maury's in deep. That's his fault, not mine. That's right, isn't it. I'm right? No, where is he? I don't know. That's the truth. I tell you something else. I wasn't squaring.

I saw Morey early tonight six o'clock, came here and borrowed another five from me.

But you know the worry is now?

No said sure? Like a can of beer? If you don't know, I said, still, I'll get.

It for you.

You sure you won't have one? No?

Not me?

No thanks, I don't want to.

There you go, good cold beer. I like it when I get nervous. Always calms me down.

There, you told me, yeah, sorry, you haven't taken your hat off.

Oh I was nervous.

I guess I forgot.

Your hair always been dark blown since I was a kid. Yeah, why how about that scar in your chin?

It's pretty deep.

One beers. Sure good.

I ask you about the scar.

It's kind of embarrassing and I get a little high one night off a Merrygarai.

Big night. Now I've heard everything.

We had a robbery report a couple of nights ago. Tobin, hold up, man, it was just about your height and wake Yeah, dark blonde hair had a scar on his chin too. I'm afraid you got a wrong slat officer. I worked my cab every night of the week, wasn't me. Don't mind if we have a look at your car, sid.

How'd you know I had a car? We didn't just give it a look Shally, Why do you want to look at it?

Do you have anything to hide at it?

Of course not?

And then like May's oh in trouble, I was on the lamp. You probably think it's funny when you check the glove compartment in my car. Will we Yeah, you will? Why is that keep a gun in there? You know how many camp drivers get shot? A guy can't be too careful.

What kind of gun do you have? Tobin?

Revolver? Regular revolver?

What caliber? Here? He ate? Why? Two thirty am?

We searched his car, picked up his thirty eight caliber revolver, and then we drove Ralph Tobin back to the office where he was detained for questioning. We had a stakeout placed in his apartment. Russ Camp and Ballistics checked Tobin's gun against the slugs which had.

Taken the lives of Harry Solomon and Bert Matthews.

Was found beyond the question of a doubt that his gun had been used in the Solomon killing.

We confronted Tobin with the evidence. He started talking.

He told us that Copley was responsible for the murder of both Solomon and Matthews, that Copley had borrowed his gun for the Solomon job. In all the robberies except one, he described himself only as the accomplice.

He drove the getaway taxi cab.

The only occasion he tried to handle the actual hold up was at the cafe, where he became so nervous that he.

Had dropped his gun.

Before he was booked on suspicion of murder, Tobin told us that Morris Copley still had two thirty eight revolvers in his position. He insisted he had no idea where Copley was ben handled the questioning while a stenographer took Tobin's statement. I contacted Inspector Bowers and informed him of our progress.

Eleven am.

I got back to the squadroom, all right, to check back through that personnel record we got from the cab coming.

Yeah, I got half an idea, I think. Yeah, see here on Copley's applications for the job.

I'm sure we checked out all those references as they don't go anywhere.

No, I mean that's right here all right? Yes, children one daughter aged four months when it's application dated May sixth, that means his baby was born in Baby Weary.

Yeah.

Sure Copley was working here then, so it's tender when the baby was born in the local hospital. But I mean, if we find the right hospital to the doctor they did lead us to him.

There's the phone book. Let's go from noon until four pm.

We called every hospital, sanitarium, clinic, and rest home listed in the book. The answers were the same, no record of confinement for a missus Morris Copley.

Weah, it seemed like a good idea. He's calling now we've got one more.

In the county hospital.

Well, this is Sergeant Friday, Police Department Robbery Detail. Yes, I'd like to find out if you have any record of confinement for a missus Morris Copley. No, it's Copley, sa isn't Charlie? Yes, thank you. You might have sent his wife out of town to have a baby. That's possible. Yeah, m eleven eighteen, Thank you. Eleven eighteen, Rochester Copley's aunt.

Let's go.

Four thirty pm.

Together with Olson and Thaxter from Homicide Detail, we drove out to eleven eighteen Rochester Avenue in the Frenshaw district.

The house was vacant.

From a neighbor, we learned that Copley's aunt had moved two weeks before. We got her address from one of her friends in the neighborhood and finally located her at work in a beauty shop on Melrose Avenue.

We posed as traffic investigators.

The aunt told us she thought we could find her nephew Morris at home and address on East thirteenth Street. Six pm. We located the house and parked the cars at half a block away. As we approached the house on foot, we saw a light burning in one of the windows on the left side of the house. Thaxter and Olsen covered the back at a given signal. We entered the back door, Ben and I went through the front.

It's empty.

Well Faxter, that's great.

It looks like somebody passed him a tip off. Just in time. We've become missus places in here.

We got out in a hurry. All right, Hey, what's going on here?

A few men think you're doing police office? Is your name?

Silvera? One of the neighbors.

You're looking for the Copley's when they leave twenty minutes ago. I guess in an awful hurry, what's the trump?

You know where they were going?

No, but you might try mister Copley's at she lives over in Rochester.

They're not there.

Well, have you tried his sister's house? Six forty five pm.

The neighbor, Silvera, directed us to the home of Morris Copeley's sister, a small frame cottage on the edge of Beverly Hills.

The lights were on in the living room, but the shades were drawn. Thaxter and Olsen made their.

Way quietly around to the back and I went up the front steps and rang the bell.

Yes, what do you want you, miss Copley? Yes, what is it?

Police officers? Ma'am? I'm sorry Oh, he isn't here, moorey isn't here. We know he's here.

Living room's empty. Must be in the back, will you can't.

She's in the bedroom of the baby.

He's got a gun. You can't go in there.

Where's the bedroom? See into the hall at that door.

He wasn't sleeping.

I think he's awake.

Now, the baby close to him, the seme bed he's propped up on pools right next to it.

He's got that gun with him. Don't go in, please. Where's the bed situated in the room.

It's right inside the door of the Let please don't go in. She won't care what happens to the baby. Man, all open the door and you hit the light switch and cover me. Why the baby?

You gotta stay heres, go for your baby. Won't get her.

Let's go all right, that's going.

Stop with you.

Stap the gun bed?

All right, I got it, Joe, all right to get him? Come on up, yo, Yeah, just a little frightened, ma'am.

She's all right.

I kill you, Mary, You tell him where to find us. Didn't you kill you for that?

Lousy damn?

Nobody else knows.

She's the one who told you, and.

Who told you you're looking at her? What do you mean your baby?

The story you've have just heard was true, only the names were changed to protect the innocent.

On December sixteenth, trial was held in Superior Court, City and County of Los Angeles, State of California. In a moment the results of that trial.

And now here is our star, Jack Webb, thank you.

The working detective knows that there is one mark of identification that never changes a man's fingerprints. The suspect may change his appearance in many ways, but his fingerprints always remain the same.

A mark of identity that cannot be changed.

Maurice John Copley and Ralph Edward Tilburn were tried and convicted of murder in the first degree, two counts. They were both sentenced to be executed in the lethal gas chamber of the State Penitentiary San Quentin, California. You have just heard Dragnet, a series of authentic cases from official files. Technical advice comes from the Office of Chief of Police W. H. Parker, Los Angeles Police Department. Coming up, we the people tomorrow enjoyed the life of Riley on NDC.

Welcome back. Well, here we see how dragnet takes cases, not big headline earning cases, but well we would normally consider ordinary stories that you would end in the middle of the paper and makes them compelling. What we first of all get the real emotional investment in the victims in terms of what actually happened in the crime. And then we also get a little bit of a puzzling hook here with this focus on thirty eight's that keeps