Welcome to the grazing grass podcast. Episode 134.
Be economical. If you came in, even if you had 50, 000 to dump on a startup, don't blow it.
You're listening to the grazing grass, podcast, sharing information and stories of grass-based livestock production utilizing regenerative practices. I'm your host, Cal Hardage.
You're growing more than grass. You're growing a healthier ecosystem to help your cattle thrive in their environment. You're growing your livelihood by increasing your carrying capacity and reducing your operating costs. You're growing stronger communities and a legacy to last generations. The grazing management decisions you make today. impact everything from the soil beneath your feet to the community all around you.
That's why the Noble Research Institute created their Essentials of Regenerative Grazing course to teach ranchers like you easy to follow techniques to quickly assess your forage production and infrastructure capacity. In order to begin grazing more efficiently. Together, they can help you grow not only a healthier operation, but a legacy that lasts. Learn more on their website at noble. org slash grazing. It's n o b l e dot org forward slash grazing.
On today's show. We have Anthony Horvath for Michigan on to share about his farm and why he's doing. We talked about starting at ground zero and building slowly. Anthony and his wife both work full-time off the farm. And the farm. It is fairly small, but getting started good. We talk about his approach to it. We talked about him getting started and utilizing bailing hay, as a way to expand while he's able to do. We talked about difficulties of being able to graze more land there.
So a good episode a little bit different perspective. Someone's working full-time off the farm. Whereas the last few episodes, we've had some larger operations on, so really excited to offer a different perspective today. And I really appreciate Anthony coming on and sharing. For 10 seconds about my farm. Last week I mentioned calving had started for my dad's herd. And we jumped off to a great start with four calves. And then they're just trickling in now.
So I think we're up to eight calves, when we have for the first day, We think, oh boy. We're going to have a slew, but now it just one at a time. So it's going slow right now, but it should pick up. 10 seconds about the podcast. If you haven't left us a review, we always appreciate reviews. And as one of my favorite podcasts says, we love five star reviews and positive contents. And to be honest, I do. Yeah. Let's share a review. This one says great podcast.
Great show for graziers I am in the Southeast us, but can use the ideas for my grazing purposes here. Thank you, jskin2610. We appreciate you leaving a review for us. And they do highlight an issue. We've had this summer, I feel like we've had more Northern. Grazers. More Canadian grazers on, and we haven't had too many from the Southeast or too many other places. So we need to work on that.
If you're from the Southeast wants share, in fact, if you're from anywhere in the world and you want to share about your operation. I go to grazing grass.com and click on be our guest and fill it up for. I will get it and I'll be in touch. Again, jskin thank you for leaving us that review. And let's talk to Anthony.
Anthony, we want to welcome you to the grazing grass podcast. We're excited. You're here today. Thanks for having me. Cal Anthony to get started. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself and your operation?
So our operation is pretty limited on our home front. We're operating on less than 10 acres. That includes the neighbor's acre and a half next door. Oh, yes. We have seven cattle, two of them are calves, three are feeders that'll be finished out here in the next two months. And we plan to have them finished out by the time grass goes dormant, which being in southwest Michigan could be September or it could be February. Oh, yeah.
The last couple of years, last year I had grass until probably January.
Oh, yes.
Sometimes we'll get a snow in October. Sometimes we don't have any snow until January or February at times. Oh, yeah. So it's we're pretty close to Lake Michigan. Oh, okay. So it's very hit or miss on our weather.
Now being close to the Great Lakes up there and myself being in Oklahoma, I know very little about it, but I know occasionally on the national maps they'll say Lake Effect snow. Do you get hit with Lake Effect snow?
Well, that's the thing about Lake Effect. It's either hit or miss.
Oh
yeah. We are in the area that we get hit. or we don't. So being, we're on the Indiana Michigan state line, close to Lake Michigan. So, if the wind comes directly out of the west, we might get hit with the lake effect.
Oh, yes.
If it comes slightly out of the south, we might miss it because it doesn't come across the lake. Oh,
okay. Now, if
it comes out of the northwest, then we can expect, feet of snow overnight.
Oh, wow. Interesting. So, yeah. Interesting. I'm just a few miles from Oligo Lake. I'm sure you haven't heard of it, but I never have to worry about Lake, expect Lake effect snow
Yeah. So like, if we were an hour north, like Grand Rapids, Michigan. Yes. They're probably more consistent whether they get it or not, because, they're, they can't avoid the lake. Oh, yeah. The wind streams and whatnot coming across. So.
Oh, interesting. So Anthony, we're on here, ag podcasts. Why did you decide to get into ag?
Well, if you would have asked me that five years ago, I would have told you I would never thought I was doing today what I am. Oh, yes. Four years ago we started a hay operation. Bailing some of our own stuff custom jobs, rented ground, and we had one cow one cow, donkey, and we were buying our hay, and we had some issues with that.
Shady people, hard to get a hold of, some lesser quality stuff, just people slide stuff in and we happened to get a bad bale of hay, which we were buying round bales and our donkey became sick.
Oh no.
And we didn't lose them, at least not at that point. And I thought, I'm tired of chasing hay around and maybe I just start making my own. So, we just had one feeder cow for the house and, maybe sell a little bit of extra to some friends or whatnot. And then at that point, we decided we would start buying hay equipment in probably March of 2020. And we did a few custom jobs, mostly on splits. And It started rolling from there.
I
want
to stop you for just a second. Okay. If you've listened to the podcast very long, one of my happiest days in my life was when we sold the haying equipment. Now, when I say that you can make my good day go bad by me having to work on some equipment. That's not where I fall, but you have a hidden advantage with the equipment.
Yes. So by trade I am a diesel technician with ag as a secondary in my education. And I like wrenching on stuff. I like being able to diagnose and find the problem and fix things. So when it came to the hay equipment, we just bought the cheapest that we could afford and started rebuilding from there. But I've gotten to a point to where I know my equipment well enough. And I know that. When hay's not growing, I should probably work on it.
Oh yeah.
I believe too many people run into issues where once hay season's done, they're done until the next hay season. And then they start going and then they don't have time to make, some maintenance or minor repairs that could be more catastrophic and yeah.
I'm raising my hand, Anthony, because when we hay, we bailed hay. We did it out necessity because of the dairy. We needed so much hay for it. And when that haying season ended, we parked the equipment and we Oh yeah. Looked at it in the following spring and in a panic, started fixing stuff. Now the, we ha we hire someone to come bell hay for us now. Yeah, he's actually a second cousin.
But he, when he finishes haying season, his winner is going through fixing, working on all his tractors and stuff. That's what he enjoys doing. And so that's his plan. And he, I'm assuming he's done like you. He's bought some equipment and worked on it and got it working for him. Because he'll pull in with tons of equipment and he may come over here with three mowers or he may be down one. He's like, well, yeah, one messed up. I'll get it in winter and fix it.
So he's in great shape on equipment, but he spends winter working on all of that equipment. So you bring up a great point that I have to say we were not good about.
Yeah. And I, during college I did work at a Derrick barn. Oh, yes. Even at that point, I would have never thought. I was going to start buying animals and hay equipment and, it was just a college job and that was that. Did you, were you raised
around animals?
So, my background has zero animals in the history to the point we were lucky to have a dog growing up. I did. Wanted nothing to do with animals.
Oh, yes. But yet when you went to college, you decided to go get a job on a dairy. Yes.
So the school I went to, which was University of Northwestern Ohio, down in Lima they had like job postings that, people in the community would say, Hey, you got some college kids. I have a job that would work around their schedule or whatnot.
Oh, yes.
I was just like, Oh, I'll check this out. And they were pretty flexible. We only went to school Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday. Oh, yeah. And then we had Friday and the weekend off. And the dairy was like, well, we're, we were milking 80 to a hundred head and he really just needed some relief. Oh, yeah.
So to have somebody there to help milk and he could pick up on other things, go out, and get other things rolling while somebody was managing the parlor, bringing cows in and out, whatnot. So having help four or five days a week was great. Good for him. And then, he had his weekends and one thing I never got roped into was helping with hay. So, yes, that's one thing I've thought about is like, I, he never asked me to come stack wagons, nothing,
And then here you are buying hay and equipment and deciding you're going to do your own. Yeah. So why did you mentioned a little bit You'd got some hay and your donkey had gotten sick. Was there any other reason you thought, hey, let's, thought, hey, yeah, ironically, thought, hey, let's go get the equipment to make hay.
It was just, so we had our own and there's not enough haymakers in our area.
Oh, yeah.
So when I started talking about buying some hay equipment, I had a buddy that was like, Hey, I know some people that are looking for somebody to cut and bale, I can hook you up with them, whatever. And I found out some of the, some of those were just on offs, whatnot. Oh, yes. Yeah, because he had his own hay equipment, but didn't want to do the hay for him. So, but from there we just started picking up ground and I think I got up to 30 or 40 acres my first year.
Oh yeah.
And then the second year we started looking for a lot more, but at that point we started buying more animals cause we're like, Oh yeah. We have the hay, we might as well, do some more animals. And at that point we had processed our cow and people were like, Hey, we'll buy some from you. Like, we want to buy local. So we got rolling with, maybe we'll buy two to butcher out. And then we got the hay and then we got more cows and we got more hay. And this year.
And last season, first cutting, I've done around a hundred acres. Oh, yeah. And that kind of says a lot for our area. We don't have big hay fields. Oh, yes. I would say a big hay job in our area, my biggest job is 15 acres.
Oh, yeah. So, so small acreage there.
Yeah. Yeah. There, there are some bigger hay fields that, mostly like a family farm or something might have like a 30 acre field or something. Oh, yeah. Right. Not a lot of it. Everybody, it's just easier to go to row crop. A lot of people that are renting out, they don't want people there three, four times a year. They get their rent. At the beginning of the year, somebody comes and plants something, then they harvest it, and Oh, yeah.
I find some people find that easier and a simpler process, and
Now, in addition to the farm and your haying, are you working off the farm as well?
I am still working full time. We strive for 40 hours. Oh, yeah. My company owner would greatly complain that I don't quite get 40 hours every week. So,
well, just so when you say 100 acres, even though you're doing a smaller acreage for someone who's building hay in my area, they'd say that's not a lot. That's hardly a drop in the bucket, but the thing, but you're doing a full time job in addition to belling this hay. And then, so I think context is important there. Yes. Yes. So because, but belling hay is not a quick and easy dollar.
Right. So I saved my vacation time.
Oh yes.
And the way it goes, I've rewrote company policy three times in four and a half years I've been there. So, I would save my vacation time, and when it came to making hay, I would take off at lunch, put a half day vacation in. You can't do anything first thing in the morning unless you're moving equipment. And we did that for about two years, and we had to sit down meeting at work, and they said, We're no longer doing half days.
We can no longer take half, half vacation days, it's gotta be a full day. Yeah, I'm like, well, that's a disadvantage to you. Cause when I got to make hay, I got to make hay. Yeah. So I more so miss out the hours on the week then push the hay off. Cause Southwest Michigan, you got a window to do hay. You got to make it. Oh yeah. You missed your window. You could be pushed back a month. Easy. And we had that this year.
Our first cutting was, I would say, maybe a couple weeks behind, but between first and second cutting, we got pushed back an extra month. Just because we only had like two or three dry days in a row and, humidity rolls in, you got to hold off.
Oh, yeah. I assume it's very similar to trying to bail in May or mid May year. It's really tough to get anything wrapped up. The humidity, getting enough warm days and enough sunlight together. Yeah. You hit early to mid June. That all changes for us, but you're in a little bit different environment.
So if we get into June, I would say first cutting due to the volume can be the hardest one to dry.
Oh, yeah.
But if we get into June doing first cutting, we could almost turn it in a day. Oh, yeah. Just because the sun, the breeze I've made hay, dry hay, and I've bailed at 36 hours and it was too dry.
Oh, yeah.
Round baler, it was just blowing apart and, but also when you get into June, you're also already have a half dead crop and,
yeah, matured out. Already half
dry standing up.
Now, Anthony, you mentioned that you started baling this hay and you had more hay, so you all bought more animals. Have you thought about grazing those hay pastures you have?
So, that is one of my biggest challenges. In the first two years I was making hay, I would go out to a field. I'm like, man, this wasn't worth my time.
Oh, yeah.
I usually make four by five round bales. First cutting they're eight to nine hundred pounds, second cutting they're easily a thousand pounds. When you go out and do a ten or fifteen acre field on second cutting and you only bring home ten bales, You look at your cost and go, wow, I know my field's gone. And so that's where I came across the whole regenerative ag approach on things.
And I really try to get some of my landowners I'm for grazing and I have had zero success other than my next door neighbor with an acre and a half.
Oh, yes.
They don't like the idea of fences.
Oh, yeah.
And I'm talking fence down to the simplest form of my group is good enough. Obviously I have a small group seven cattle, half a dozen sheep in Katahdin hair sheep three of them are lambs. They're all, they're bonded. I have no problems with sheep getting out.
Oh yeah.
I can run the whole group on two strands of poly braid. With just a T post in the corner. If I'm doing long runs, say, two, three hundred feet, I like to have T posts in the corners. Otherwise, I can just get away with a step in post. But even that little bit of fence, they still just don't like the idea. And I've got a couple I keep trying to work on, because, of course, they're my weakest output fields. Oh, yeah. And just can't get them onto the idea. We are on Zillow every day.
We need to grow. We're at that point to where we would like to find 30 to 40 acres at least.
Oh yeah.
Got some things in the works, nothing substantial. But we're trying. With our group, our 10 acre home property is probably about seven seven of its forested.
Oh, okay.
So we have been working for the last couple of years to do more of a silvopasture approach.
Oh, yeah.
We have about two, two and a half acres at the front of our property that's just wide open pastures from the past, and then we have a valley that goes through the property. It's not that big, but it's a significant cut in the ground.
And through that, we've started eliminating we have a lot of wild cherry in our area, which I don't know how much you've dealt with those or know about the health side effects of those, but some people say they'll let their cows eat them green, but the issue is when a tree branch breaks off and you get it wilting. It'll kill a cow within a few hours. Oh yes. My neighbor across the road has a bunch of black Angus in springtime.
They might run a little short on hay or whatnot, but you start getting that green up and the cows start reaching over the fence and, it's not the first time they grabbed the branch, but it's the second or third time they grabbed the branch that it started creating the, I believe it's cyanide when when a cherry tree starts to wilt. And that's what kills them.
Oh yeah, that's an interesting issue to have. I don't know of having any wild cherries around here. Yeah, I haven't had to deal with it.
They're big in our area. Black cherry or wild cherry. They get a little real little cherry fruit on it.
Oh, yeah.
Birds spread them around pretty good. I've, my wife has talked about eliminating them off our property, but that would probably be 70 percent of our trees. Oh, yes. So, we come back, keep them out of the areas. So our donkey that got sick a couple years ago he recovered, we had him, he actually passed away this summer. We don't know if there's still side effects because what he got sick from a few years ago was a liver infection. And our vet said, something bad in the hay,
you
know, could be many issues that could cause it, but most likely something bad in a moldy spot, bad plant something. He passed away this summer, but he was our biggest concern. Out in the woods because he always liked cribbing on the cherry trees. Oh,
yeah, I could never
seem to cause him a problem But he was always the one that would do it. So we'd rope them off and just a wrap of poly braid around them You know just two or three teeth or step in post and it kept them off Yeah So the rest of our group doesn't really bother them. So we're a little easier rotating them around. But, yeah,
So, Anthony, you were talking about your animals. How are you doing grazing management with your animals? Because you're working with very small acreage for them.
We, so our grazing management is very flexible, which is
good. Grazing management should be flexible.
Yeah. So right now my one pasture is came up very strong and what some people call goose grass or wiregrass.
Oh, okay.
And I have split my group up to offer the better forage to my feeders that are, I have three that are, three cattle that are finishing out in the next two months, and then I have three lambs I'm carrying over until early spring, there'll be about 10 months for butcher just in time for the holidays. Oh, yes. So I'm neglecting my brood. They're in that pasture with the goose grass and supplemented with hay.
Unfortunately, they're not eating as much of the hay as I'd like because I use a cradle style bale feeder.
Oh, okay.
And it works really good for bale grazing. So, that pasture will probably end up getting tilled and reseeded just because, It's gone through some leveling with the removal of tree stumps and whatnot and then I'm running my feeder group ahead, and right now they're on my neighbor's pasture next door. I sectioned that down quarter. Quarter, a half acre at a time and rotate them around.
And then once they've picked through the good stuff I have a spot down in the valley that I mowed earlier this summer because we have a weed called smart weed.
Oh, okay. I'm not familiar with it.
It just grows ridiculously well in wooded areas.
Oh,
okay. It's a green plant. It's low. It might get knee high, but it gets these real little pinkish red dots on it that are the seeds and deer will browse on it a little bit, but nothing really likes it. So I did mow that out and got the grass to perk back up. And I've never seeded grass down there, but through mowing, it has started to come through and this will be our first time grazing that as we've gotten rid of some of the cherry trees and whatnot.
So we're flexible in terms of, yeah, let's go a little bit longer on this or, let's fence off an area over there. I don't mow grass. Okay. The only grass I mow is the ditch along the road between the pavement and the fence, and right next to the driveway. That's a term of flexibility to where I run poly rope up to one corner of the house, and then it comes off the other corner to the pasture.
And Anthony, I'm laughing because my dad makes fun of me earlier this summer, my dad. My nephew mows my parents yard, he mows his mom's yard, and his yard, and then usually, and we all share a lawnmower, so he usually just drops it off down here, or I have it stored in the barn, and he was like, hey, I'm getting that mower, he says, Do you want me to mow yours? I'm like, Oh no, I don't want you to mow it. I'm putting sheep in there.
Yep. So, so, so I'm that crazy person too, who my wife doesn't mind that I graze as much as I can with animals.
So when I can get three or four days of feed off of the yard around the house, and our kids are small enough that they don't need a lot of yard space. Oh
yeah.
So, And honestly, our property, we have a lot of clay.
Oh, yes.
We're either sand or clay, and neither are great. So, right now in Michigan, we had some rain Thursday night. It was less than a quarter inch of rain. The most recent rain before that was probably less than a quarter inch three weeks before. So I we're getting into a drought. Oh
yes.
And I haven't even been able to feed my side yard. Oh yeah. Because we have the clay, there's so little organic matter that the moisture just doesn't hold. So actually the pasture closest to our side yard, which is the one I would branch up to the side yard to feed off of I ran our group. Okay. Round bales for probably three weeks a month
in that
pasture. I, I did some round bales, but I found out squirrel bales make a lot more waste in a round bale feeder. Oh yes. So bale grazing that side yard with squirrel bales did really great. So that little bit of rain we got yesterday or Thursday night. held a lot more moisture than if I would have, like, let them eat it clean or do round bales in the feeder. Because when I do hay, if I have like tree rows that don't get dry, I bale them and then they just come home and they go out to the cows.
And instead of, Oh, okay. They'll hold up. Okay. They might make a little mold. I just, I set them in a spot and I feed them out and I don't have to worry about giving them to a customer and getting a bad reputation. They just feed my herd instead of a round bale. Oh
yeah.
It does them pretty good, especially when you're on second or third cutting with a good amount of alfalfa in there. Oh yeah. But yeah, so that bale grazing has been a, it's been bittersweet. It's helped our ground like that. Cause what I'll actually do is all that will get tilled in. I know a lot of people aren't a fan of rototilling.
But, being the way our property was before there were a lot of tree stumps and whatnot that got removed, so we have a bunch of divots and voids and crests in the ground that are in if you are mowing the grass, it's terrible, but it's also terrible driving a tractor across if you're moving bales or something. So we're using the rototiller to level things out and make it, oh, okay, easier on the animals. They're not tripping over ridges in the ground and yeah, potholes from a tree stump.
I think with that, when we talk about regenerative ag and we talk about not disturbing the soil, not using chemicals, not using fertilizer rotating our animals that's all a goal for us. I think it's a goal for you, it's a goal for me, but to get there, sometimes we have to use some of those tools that's in our toolbox, such as rototilling that, so you're leveling some areas out. And there's different ways to do it, but that's the tool you have. To do it.
So, we have to be conscious of what our context is and we can look at, down the road, this is where we want to be, but just because we're not there today does not mean it's bad. It just means. It's going to slow our progress a little bit. Maybe if we're doing some things that's not best for the soil, we know where we're going. So it's a tool for you to use.
Yeah. Yeah. And, as much as I don't like the idea of it, I'm not hard set in any certain way, I understand, I've seen more tillage does kill the soil, that's part of the reason why our ground is so terrible around us. Everybody tells, we, we still have farmers that go out and they a local small town farmer, They plow twice a year,
like
this, and then they got a, fertilizer bill that's just crazy. A farm next door I've been trying to rent the landowner, old timer, hasn't farmed and I don't know if he's ever farmed it or it's just always been rented out. But he thinks the farmer's doing such a great job because he puts so much fertilizer down. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's building the soil and I'm like, no, but. Sometimes you can't teach an old dog new tricks. And
you mentioned earlier, you've talked to some of these landowners about grazing animals and they're not quite there yet. And just, I think the most important thing there is relationships. And those don't happen overnight. And depending on the person, it takes even longer. It may take even longer or a lot longer.
So, I think even with your neighbor like that, it's just about building that relationship and continuing down that road till you get that relationship and maybe at some point you're able to do that.
Yeah, well, that's what we keep working for, push, but not shove right. Try to get there. Well, that's probably been one of our biggest issues. I would say most of the generational farms in our area, they're ran by people that are getting to that age to where they've been there for a while. So things are set up and comfortable.
Oh, yeah. So
there's no reason to change. But for that same reason, things are going to have to change because they're I would say at least two of the three neighboring properties around us are being operated and managed by. Families that are in their seventies. Oh yeah. So how long can you really do that? Yeah, some people live to be 90, but others don't make it to 50. So, and they're just rolling with it until, Doctrines have to change.
Yeah, and I think we're seeing that throughout ag that average age is increasing and wondering about the next journey. I talk about my animals, my operations, and my dad is 76 and he's got his own operation, which I provide. A fair amount of labor for it. And now he's got my nephew helping him now, which has been really nice. In fact we just started fall calving season with his cows and I've tagged zero of them, my nephew has tagged them, which has been nice.
And then my grandpa up the road still runs cows. Now he runs them with my uncle. Who is 60 so but my grandpa's 98. Yeah. So, yeah that still people going and doing stuff and we're seeing that age But then the next thought is who's coming up who's going to take their places?
Yeah, and I think that's been one of our limitations is we have this older generation still going But the next generation, it really isn't getting a foot in the door,
you say that and I think that's a I hate to say issue. That is a concern. And I've heard it other places as well. And I could apply it here and think, My dad ought to take a step back, but he enjoys it. So I don't know, I do get that and I do hear that. And I do think it's true in a lot of aspects. I don't know what the answer is. Yeah, it's one of those things.
Unfortunately, I think it comes down to just being an ultimatum of, like we were talking on the hay equipment. You just run it until it has to.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah. It is. I know the one family farm in our area. The old man, I'd say, is in his late 70s, somewhere around that age, and even some of the grandsons aren't even getting lead weight in some of the operations, and, they're just there being able bodies, and. Oh, yeah.
Yeah, that's a tough thing to work through is releasing that control to the next generation to do stuff or for them to do more things. I talk about my dad and I quite often on the podcast, but that's been a struggle for us throughout the years because it's his operation and we're partners on some things, but he's got his thing that he is the operator on or the owner. He's not so much. He would cringe if I say he's not the operator because he's down here doing stuff.
Yeah. I'm doing a ton of stuff. And he is given my voice more weight now, but it's taken us decades to get here. It's a tough dance to go through. And I think ranching for profit, when they talk about families and working on the farm versus working in the farm, I think that could be a tremendous benefit for a lot of those people. I say a lot of those people. For a lot of us, I don't want to it'd be beneficial for any of us, I believe.
Yeah. Yeah, I think that is one thing that lacks is, just general communication. Oh, yeah.
So, I got a question on that's non ag related. How's communication at your job? Terrible. Okay, so, so, why I'm saying that, I worked in education for over two decades, and the common complaint is communication. The common I think, Now, I'm going to go out on a limb and say, most places the issue is communication. We're either saying stuff and we're not saying what we truly mean, or the communication is just not happening. And the people who need to know, don't know.
And it's Not often because people think, oh, I don't want to tell them. They just think, well, they don't need to know that. I just won't burden them with that. Oftentimes they do need to know. So that communication piece, I think everyone in the world needs to work on.
Yep. Yeah. The shop I work in communication is definitely a big issue. It definitely puts a hitch in the day and a few words can go a long way.
Oh yeah. Go a step further. All of our marriages. or relationships with other people. Communication is such a huge factor and would make a big difference. My wife and my communication, I think is really good at this point, it's taken years for us to figure that out and get there. And I'm sure in five years, we'll look back and say, Oh, we really had a lot of growth to do at that point. But, it's a journey.
Hey, Anthony rather than continue on this communication tangent, let's talk a little bit about your animals. You mentioned you have hair sheep you mainly working with Katahdin, or Katahdin crosses there?
I believe they're Katahdin, and they're whole, they were cheap.
Yeah. Well, that's an important thing. And we'll come back to that in just a moment. What kind of cows are you running? Cheap cows. Well, okay, Anthony, They weren't bought this year, so That makes them cheaper, doesn't it? Let's stop right there because both of those answers bring us to the over grazing section sponsored by Redmond.
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We're going to talk a little bit about. We'll just say cheapness right now. Economical. Economical. Because cheap has that negative connotation. It does. And we really don't want that because, let's talk about economical in your situation.
Yes. So, I would define economical as something that you can afford without taking out a loan. It might not be the highest quality, but it's reasonable in the aspect that it's healthy in producing. So we're not a big income family. We're both working day jobs and, Wife's a school teacher. I'm a diesel mechanic. Farming was just a side gig for us. And when it came down to buying stock, livestock, our cattle started with weaned bottle babies.
Just, something we could afford, raised, they were healthy, turned off. Off the bottle, on the grass and grain once we get them we put them on just grass and but they're not, High dollar, registered, Angus, Hereford, South Pole because that's just not where we're at in our situation. A couple years ago, you could pick up bottle babies off the bottle for four or five hundred dollars. This year You're talking a thousand dollars on a wiener?
Yeah, I would guess so as well. I haven't priced those, but I know bottle calves are that 500 range. Now, it's interesting with bottle calves. I saw someone on Facebook and actually had I seen it a little bit earlier. Earlier they had a twin born and the mom wasn't taking it. So they're like first person here with 250 gets it. I saw it an hour after it was posted and it was gone. I would have drove over there. Of course, it was like 10 minutes from me. And got the baby for 250.
But I've seen them, I've seen them as high as like 600. So one thing you mentioned there, you're buying winged. Calves, weaned bottle babies rather than the bottle babies themselves. Why are you doing that?
I don't have experience with bottle babies and working a day job, having two kids the time invested to do it right and make sure they're healthy and growing right, isn't in our situation right now. Oh, I think
you are exactly point on there with bottle calves. They take a lot more time than you think. Once you get started on them, I used to buy bottle calves, dairy calves, and I tried to buy them when I was working for school. I'd buy them during spring break. So I had a week off that because you got to check them, in my opinion, when you're bringing bottle babies in and you're watching and make sure they're doing okay. And we always taught them to drink out of a bucket versus a bottle.
It would take me hours. So I wanted that time. And once I hit two weeks of age, Much smoother, but those first two weeks I had to spend a lot of time with them to make sure they were started good And then even at two weeks of age you still got that twice a day feeding and stuff So I think experience with it and having time to do it is a great reason to buy bottle babies that have just been weaned
yeah, our biggest thing is just Being healthy. So starting out with our cow and donkey about five years ago, the donkey has been our only death on the farm other than chickens,
chickens,
or, something gets up, they run into something, you find one dead, it's it's not even a high mortality rate at that. You, we might find one, one or two a year that, just died or whatnot. And we don't rotate like our laying hens. We don't rotate them out when they're two years old or whatnot. We just, they're there to disturb the poop and bugs and lay eggs. And when they get old. And but yeah, the donkey has been our only large livestock death, even among the hogs.
We've probably done close to 50. 50 hogs in the last year and a half, and no sickness there. Once we get good or bottle babies, they carry through pretty good. I've had a vet in for one cow, or one, one calf heifer. We had no clue what was going on with her. At the point the vet came in, she was two years old, and I was getting ready to look at doing some breeding. And she was probably 36 inches tall.
Oh, yes.
40 at max. And I had a vet come in and do a wellness check and she said, Nope, everything's healthy. Her heart's good. She's a dwarf. Oh. And this was out of a registered Hereford herd. Bought her in with a group of bottle babies from a buddy. Oh,
yes.
We just thought she was so cute and fuzzy. And she was.
Oh, yeah.
And so we ended up selling her off as just a mini cow, and that's something we wanted to keep around. It doesn't serve us much purpose if we can't breed her or eat her, so.
Oh, yeah. Now, you mentioned your hogs there. Are you bringing those in as feeders?
Yes we're buying them in as feeders anywhere from 40 to 90 pounds, depending on when we get them. I buy those about 10, 10, 15 minutes away from home. We just do a commercial breed. We tried some American Guinea hogs. They were okay, but they were too much maintenance. Oh, yeah. Because you have to limit their diet. I had to go out, measure out feed twice a day, and yes, they forage, but even restricting their feed, they got real fatty, and just, we found them hard to sell.
We moved to just regular commercial breed feeders, whether they're a Durock or Berkshire, Blue Butt, whatever I can get from my local farm about 10 15 minutes away. Oh, yeah. We find they all do pretty good, as long as I don't get too many gilts in the group.
Oh,
yeah. We had a group that was split 50 50 with gilts, and they were significantly behind. Oh, yeah. Weight wise, that butcher. I want to say we took them all up. To the borrows in that group were over 200 hanging, where the guilt for around 150,
160. Oh yeah, there's a big difference there.
Same age, same letters same feed, but. You can see the difference in a four to six month raise out.
You talked about being economical or frugal and making sure in your livestock purchases. How does that apply to the rest of your farm operation?
We do everything. I've scrolled through Facebook, Marketplace, Google. specific groups. I almost laugh when I ask, when I see a post for somebody hiring somebody to put up a cattle fence.
Oh yeah.
I couldn't even imagine what it would cost for me to pay somebody to come in and fence in a five acre pasture. Like, for me, that is, most places, businesses, whether it's a fence company, a truck shop, a plumbing service, they're over 100 an hour bill out. So I know the time I have into my fencing and I couldn't even fathom the cost of that. So, I generally work by myself. Sometimes my dad will come over. He's more of a lawn chair supervisor.
Yeah. But we do all, everything on our own, except for Raising piglets, we don't do any farrowing. We find it easier to just buy feeders the cost of a sow and knowing how to breed them and keep them going.
At the time. Yeah. I think, yeah. So, so when you think about economically you're buying some undervalued animals. that come into your system and can appreciate in value, not necessarily a short turnaround, because when you're buying those weaned bottle calves, you've got a long turnaround on them. Yeah. You're able to get in there with low costs and you're using time as a way to lower your costs.
And then you're using your own labor to do everything in addition to you and your wife, both having full time jobs.
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
And
most people find it crazy. The, we have seven cows, half a dozen sheep, about 14 hogs right now, almost two dozen chickens, and two little children, and still try to get 40 hours a week, and it's busy.
Yeah, oh, I'm sure, sure it is. Do you Is this where you want to be? You're enjoying it and doing this kind of on a small scale, or would you like to grow enough that eventually you could just do this full time?
So, ideologically, we would like to quit my day job, but we also don't want to be huge. One thing I think, and I understand the economical need for people to put out as much as they can, but we would like to replace our incomes and supply to our community.
We don't
want to get to the point to where We're wholesaling just to move stock. We want to be able to reach out to our direct community, sell farm to table, farm to consumer maybe some local restaurants, but we don't want to, I don't think we want to get to the point where we're moving a hundred head of cow every year. Or doing 5, 000 chickens. It's just something for us to do. Have our income, live on our farm, and make a little impact on our community, offer what's needed. Excellent.
Anthony, it is time for us to transition and move to our famous four questions sponsored by Kencove Farm Fence. Kencove Farm Fence is a proud supporter of the Grazing Grass podcast and graziers everywhere. At Kencove Farm Fence, they believe there's true value within the community of graziers and land stewards. The results that follow proper management and monitoring can change the very world around us.
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So, I actually just started a new book. Let me look it up here. So, with my full time day job, I found Audible to be very handy. Oh, yes. So this is where I actually came across podcasts. And when I started looking at, into regenerative ag, I started listening to all kinds of podcasts. And then probably about, Eight months ago, I started listening to audible. I came across one. I've listened to, the, what I would call the typical regenerative ag books, Gabe Brown's dirt to soil.
Joe Salton has many of them,
but
I came across this one by Forrest Richard called gaining ground
and I
am, Oh, let's see. I am on chapter 12 of it. And I have found it to be a very level headed book. I'm not completely through it, but it's I believe he's where I'm at on things.
Oh, okay.
And different aspects is, I didn't inherit a firm that was, It's severely broken, in debt, but I'm starting at ground zero and trying to build this with minimal income and resources. So it's been a good book to work through.
I
don't think anybody's mentioned it before.
No, I don't think so. I'm not familiar with that book, so I'm going to have to, excuse me, I'm going to have to look it up.
Yeah. So I don't know if you can see that.
Oh, okay. Yeah, very
good. He actually had a Joe Salton experience before Joe Salton was known as he is now. Oh, yes. He's over in that area. Oh, okay. Went to one of his early on conferences.
Well, I will have to look that up. Appreciate it. I'm always excited to hear something new that I haven't heard of. I'm always like, how did I not hear of it? But it's always good. I came across someone other day and they were. I'd asked them something about the podcast and they hadn't heard of the podcast. I'm like, I thought I had word out everywhere about the podcast, but obviously not. Yeah. Our second question, Anthony, what is your favorite tool for the farm?
I'm going to be unconventional here and say the, these, It's Isotune's 2. 0 link and I can wear them and still function while I'm operating hay equipment. Tractors moving hay. I don't have to stop. I don't have to look at a phone screen. I love, my poly reels and whatnot. They make things a lot easier.
But to be a little bit different, it's nice to have somebody call me, whether it's about meat sales, or a question on hay equipment, or my dad in another field, I can just hit a button, answer the phone, and the day keeps going. I've had other headsets and earbuds that, you have to stop. I've had to go as far as shut the equipment off just so I could have a phone conversation to tell my dad which field to go to next or whatnot.
And that's where I am. I use some air noise counseling earbuds that work great for that. And I can listen to podcasts. I can listen to Audible, Audible, and it works great. But if I get a phone call, I've got to shut the tractor down so they can hear me. Yeah, so that's a real nice advantage there. Our third question, Anthony, what would you tell someone just getting started?
Be economical. If you came in, even if you had 50, 000 to dump on a startup, don't blow it. We've only operated on cash that we've had in the bank or have brought in through the farm. We run completely separate finances for our livestock, hay feed, anything like that. We set aside a separate bank account and we try to operate the farm completely off of that account. So that way we know, Hey, it's a lot easier to see if you're going broke.
If I got 50 left in the farm account, like I know it's not bringing in enough. Now if I see, I've got, 10, 000 in there, then it's like, Oh, but you still gotta remember, you, you gotta go. Till your next paycheck on that, right. Do what you can or learn what you can, I see posts on Facebook of people asking to pay somebody to come out and teach them how to butcher. That might be a hard thing to do, but.
It's better than just taking, if you're making meat for yourself that you can butcher on site
and put in
your freezer, that's a lot better than paying a butcher every time. And if it's a skill you can gain, that's a lot better than paying somebody else to do it every time.
Excellent advice there, Anthony. And one thing I want to touch on, you talk about a separate account for your farm. I think that's so important. And you talk about if you got 50 in there, that's all you've got in there. Mike Malowiczcz, and I'm sure I'm saying that wrong, I'm practicing with his Profit First book. I love that book and I love his philosophy behind there. In fact, he's writing a personal finance book currently.
Psychologically, we see that amount in there and we think, oh, that's what we can spend. So I think, so I try and be very careful with that account and I try and keep a low amount in there and I have some in savings because if I see it and I'm like, oh, that'd be nice to have, well, do I really need it? Yeah, and I have things I don't need, but at the same time I think being very economical with it's a great way, especially if you're starting, it's still a great way for everyone else too.
Yeah like a current situation, that would be, say I see a thousand dollars in there and I'm using the makeshift gates right now, which is a piece of a fence with a post in it. Bale twine to the next post. And it's like, Hey, I have a thousand dollars in there. I could go buy, a couple of 12 foot gates. And it's like, well, I really don't need to move the cows back through that gate for a month. So it's like, eh, let's keep that in there.
Right. Yeah.
And lastly, Anthony, where can others find out more about you?
So our only social media representation would be a Facebook page of Long Ear Junction Services. The name started with our donkeys and doing some model railroad stuff, and then bringing in the multi species herd, so we just figured that was a good combination. We're no social media stars by the matter but we do post up some pictures and videos every now and then our meat sales when we have time. Butcher date set up.
Oh, very good.
Very good,
Anthony. Really appreciate you coming on and sharing today.
Thank you. I think it's been good. This is a whole new thing for me other than, doing some webinars and whatnot. Well, thank you,
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