The journey back from HELL

anyone actually likes to listen to it. This off started many episodes ago on my bus when we were on tour, in the back of my bus, talking about where I came from, how I got to hear, and it has turned into now a platform to be able to answer your questions, to be able to tell you what's going on with me and my family and the music or Yee apparel, and most importantly and my favorite thing, to be able to sit down with some of my friends

and talk about their life. Today's a good one. This guy is one of the most fascinating people that I've ever met and as a very unique perspective on life, and rightly so, because he is one of the most

deadliest snipers in American military history. With that, with that kind of title, being an army ranger and going through hell and back, essentially with that there comes a certain amount you either gain some knowledge and learn how to cope and learn how to see life through a different lens, or you don't make it out, and you're part of the devastating statistic of those men and women that actually

take their own life. That is how serious war is, and that's how devastating it is to young men and women. Nick Irving is also a New York Times bestseller and an incredible storyteller, an incredible speaker, and I'm very excited to have him on this podcast. And I think you're gonna like it, y'all, stay tuned. Did in my time and so long line of fo hup and down, going back, crazy coolation. Everybody has a story, everybody's got history. Everyone has a set of events in their life that come

together to create who they are as a person. And there's been a few times in my life when I have forgotten that. I forget it all the time. But I met you in the Holler music video. It was like, hey, you know Nick Irving. Yeah, yeah, yeah, man, yeah, ranger sniper, Yeah cool, You're a cool guy. We had fun that day, good party. And then I go read The Reaper and

I learned your history and your story. Appreciate it and I. I mean, I remember sitting I was on tour and I was reading that and I was like, oh my god, this this is the god, this is Nick like, this is his story and it just it just reminds me that everyone's carrying around whatever it might be, and you have, you have an incredible story. You are You've you've seen things that that most people will never see, thank God hopefully. Yeah. Definitely and uh and it's an honor to have you

on the podcast today. I appreciate it, man. That was a that was a deep intro. I appreciate it. Man. I feel regular, regular man. And that's why that's why you're such a cool guy, because you come off regular. That's that's how I hope people think of me, dude. I honestly, when after that video and when it came out, well, one of my son loves it and she was, you know, talking, He's like, that's the guy you're with. It's a real music video and he does real music. And I was like, yeah,

he's like I thought he was a regular guy. It's like me too, but yeah, it's I think it's it. It just goes to show like you never let things get too you know too much to your head. You know absolutely that such have you have to Yeah, I kind of read The Reaper twice because after I read it, then my bus driver Bull, who's in an army bat, I turned him onto it. So he started listening to

the audiobook when you're driving. So in the mornings, I'd get up in the audiobook would be rolling wow, and then I would go sit up there with him during certain parts. And and so you've written for five books five now yep, Media Times bestseller, and working on like another autobiography but not for myself, and working on two

autobiographies ghost writing. I love telling other people's stories man, And like the war part is cool, but I think the you know, the triumphs that people have to go over and the different you know, I'm writing one guy's autobiography and he's a It came from Mexico, he crossed the border it illegally, joined the army, suffered like eighty percent burns to his body on his first deployment, felt like killing him himself multiple times, wounded, missing legs and

stuff like that. But stories like that, man, that fight, the drive to continue is what inspires me. You know, I look at those guys and you know, I had my time of wanting to give up man, more times than I can count. You know, I'm not sure how it is for you for music, but like, have you ever wanted to say, Man, I I can't anymore? You know, if you ever felt like that. It's the what makes people drive. Man, It's the story I like to tell. I even like to hear. You learn a lot from it.

You know. There's a big difference between me and music business. And I have had that many times. I just thought, this is the end, this is road of music. I'm done. But it's different. You're kind of story. So that's actually happened to you. Uh on the day, the day for

you and a day you'll never forget. Oh yeah, and that day you talk about in the book that you actually you had, you came, you came to a crossroads where there was actually a decision of do I take my own life not necessarily not in a selfish way at all, or not not in in a scared way, but more in a conserve conserving the intelligence. Yeah, this is all we have left? Man. Yeah, that was a that was a scary day, and I you know, I

found myself. I think about it every day, but it's like an unconscious effort, unconscious effort to do it, you know, it just kind of pops up out of nowhere. And I think about, you know, that day, Me and my wife were having a conversation about it, like a week ago. And I don't talk about the army stuff anymore, which is like weird. But I think about it, dream about it, you know, dream about every every once in a while,

and it's just, uh, like that guy at that age. Man, it's I'm not sure how I you know, survived or you know, uh that that mindset you have to be in I've been, I don't know. It was. It was a weird place to be man, being overrun and and you know, surrounded, and you know, we called in for air support. They were like, you know, not dropping any air support. Uh, no reinforcements. And the last option was, you know, take a grenade, pull the pin and hug it.

That was a day I'll never forget. But it's one of those days where I look back at that guy and I'm impressed by that guy. You know, it's almost like I it's a different person. It's it's such a different person that I admire that guy but I'm so. I don't know if it's older now or or what it is, man, But like that guy is, it's I wouldn't do it. I don't know if I would do it again. I'm smarter and I know things hurt now. You know, I'm scared to ride a bike because of

the fear of not a bike. But let's say a skateboard. I won't try that right now because my bones don't recover the way they used to if I fall, you know, but it's probably the natural progression of getting older. And you're not as crazy as you were. You know, Yeah that was crazy, but still still your story of crazy, your level of crazy is higher than anyone else. You dream about? It is that? What do you dream about? It starts off as a normal dream. For example, Oh,

I was in this one dream last night. Oh that's another one I was. I met Prince in one dream. And I don't even think about Prince, you know, but I went to sleep and in this dream I was in this Uh it must have been a small dark club and all the smoke filled room and stuff like that, very small secluded club, and this guy walks in and everyone's like, oh my gosh, it's it's somebody and everyone's fighting to go see him, and I look and it's Prince.

But he's short, like Prince is. But the closer I got to him, the taller he got, you know, And he became like eight feet tall, and I was like, well, I know this is a dream because Prince is not that tall. And then it turned into like being in combat again. It's every dream is like that. Eighty percent of my dreams. It starts off normal and I wake up and I'm like, you know, I tell Jessin, like, hey, I just killed like forty people in this dream, and it started off this way, and I don't know why

it comes out that way. In combat, I dreamed about high school and bullies and stuff like that when I was in combat. But when I got out of combat, I think I dreamt more about combat opposed to, you know, the life that I'm living now. It's more about just weird things I think that I try to suppress for so long. It's finally getting a chance to to, you know, to rise itself in a way that you know, I think it's healthy at this point in time. It doesn't

bother me. I don't lose sleep or anything. It's comical at this point. You know, I expect it, but it's it's a weird, weird transition from I guess the different state of mindsets and you know, watching those old videos growing up from the guys in Vietnam, and dude, I used to question, like, why are these guys crying? You know, they're eighty years old, are seventy years old, and this happened back when they were in their twenties. And I fall back on that saying like, bewhere what you wish for?

You know? Right? And I definitely I see the connection that in my mind, I always see it as if it happened maybe two weeks ago. Everything that I've even that mission, it feels for me when I think about it, I can see it and it feels like it maybe two three weeks ago. But I know what happened in two thousand and nine, But the time doesn't. It just doesn't add up. And it still is fresh. I can still hear the bullet pops, I can still taste, you know, the blood that was in the stream. I still taste

all that and smell the everything, the fear. You know, you guys got to read the Reaper to kind of fill in the blanks this You've talked about it on many other UH media sources, and so we don't have to go back to that day. But but but you should, you guys should read this book to fill in the blanks. So you're one of the the deadliest snipers in American history, right, And the takeaway from that is how you're so cool

and normal normal? That's what? Yeah? Right, And maybe maybe you'll you hear me say that, and you think you have no idea, No, I honestly I think bro to be honest, man, I was so scared of letting that part of me go, right, you know. I used to drink a lot and I would call home and did I went through this really really depressed state. And depression runs in my family, like my mom she suffers really

really bad from it. And dude, I remember visiting you know, her in hospitals, you know, from being just really really depressed state. And there's a few times that you know, we thought we were not going to have a mom, you know, and it's a it's a long lineage in my family. But I found it. I was so scared of of giving that that guy away that the reaper away, are losing an edge of something. You know. I was so so scared of it that I held on to it, held on to it, and it became like unhealthy, and

I became more depressed. I started getting depressed of losing that guy, becoming you know, in this really dark spot of I don't want to lose this guy, I or don't want to lose this guy. And I had a hard time finding out who I used to be. You know, I look at the old pictures of me growing up, and I had this childhood dream of wanting to be a sniper, and I look at those old pictures and it's just not the same. I don't, I don't. I did.

For a long time, I did not remember that guy, you know, the smiles, the my parents will tell me, you know, I was this child and you know, happy stuff. But I just I don't know. I didn't want it, or I pushed it away for so long, and eventually it became unhealthy, and you know it kind of uh yeah, yeah, just got way too unhealthy for me. Man, And all hear vets that go and get motorcycles and yes, sir, go, crazy dude, I had when I had a Harley, and I was a uh, not a good person to look

up to for bike riding at that time. I was doing a lot of dumb stuff. Man, it was for the rush, you know, I didn't want to give that you here, Oh yeah, and you know, finally getting reconnected back with that person taking a long look in the mirror. You know I'd never done that, you know, dude, I hadn't. I don't know if this is going to sound weird, but have you ever looked in the mirror, like at yourself for a while and notice how uncomfortable it is

over time? If anyone has, if you should give it a shot to dedicate ten minutes and stare at yourself in the mirror and find out how awkward it is. It awkward it can be. And I wondered why, you know, I kind of wanted to get weird on this podcast. You're already doing it for me. I'm sorry. I know you can go there. Oh yeah, and that's what I eventually want to talk about with you. But okay, so so you stared yourself in the mirrorge in ten minutes.

It's a meditation, it is. That's why I started meditating, And dude, I saw like all the like the no smiling. It just it made me feel different, you know, like, wow, this is what people see are this is what I think. You're a projection of what's on the inside. You know, So whatever is going on on the inside, people see it.

It shows itself in its expressions. You age, and all these different things that are scientifically proven from being in a negative state, even frowning, you know, the muscles that it takes to do that opposed to smiling. So I started to change that person my changing the image on the outside, even if it was forcing it. In the military,

we had this thing called AM and FM. Like you're a radio, you're a tuner, and AM is actual motivation and sometimes a lot of the times we have to turn to the FM station, which is false motivation, you know, So we would I would do that and fake this character. You know, I had built this character to be in the Army of the Reaper, and I wanted to build

another character, which is a happier person. So I started to mold that person from the outside first and then find out, you know, why is that person the way it is? By no meditating it did it work? Work? Heck? Yeah, man, you fool your mind. I think you fool your mind by forcing it to do something even when it doesn't want to. So even in a bad situation, you begin to force yourself to find the positive and everything you know, So it's that false motivation of building that synapsis in

your brain to always find something. Okay, damn man, you've have a you. I would say the word you have a gift. You wouldn't probably look at it as a gift, but you know, taken taken back to that moment on the day when you thought, all right, I'm probably gonna have to take my own life to save what's left of this mission. You've already lost buddies. Oh yeah, good men, you've seen everything go to hell. Yeah, that you hoped you would never see you thought you probably thought you

might one day. Yeah, she hoped that you wouldn't. So you reached this point where you're like, all right, I think i'm gonna I'm gonna have to taking my own life is probably a good option. So then how long is that period between that thought and I think I'm gonna be all right? Oh, when the mission was over, when I got back home, When I got home, Well,

I take that back I went to well. After that mission, I debated on standing up at one point during the ambush and like get shot or wound myself to get home early or something. But after that mission is when I went to the back of where we lived at and I grabbed a satellite phone that one of these FBI guys had, and I called my dad and I just cried for like, you know, a few minutes. I waited for an F sixteen jet to rev up its after burnner to take off, and I use that as

a mask to cry. I didn't want anybody to hear me, and I cried for for a little while and he didn't say anything. He just I guess he already knew that obviously something wasn't right, But yeah, he just let me cry. And then I cried again. When I got home, I told my wife I was going to the gas station and I had these tinted windows on this Mercury Grandmarquies Yah. Trip to the car and set in the parking lot of the apartment complex and cried for a while,

like another ten to fifteen minutes. You talk about hiding it, but in the reality is no one would blame you for meal. Yeah, dude, I was in It was one of those things. It was a sign of weakness for me, like I didn't want anyone to see me cry or or show emotion. It was I think that was the hardest toll, or one of the biggest tolls that you know,

took it. You know, played a big part of who I became after that was holding a lot of stuff on the inside, you know, and being scared to say what was going on, and not being you know, not wanting to be seen. My childhood was not weird, but it was that very tough childhood. You know. Anytime I ever got hurt, it was my dad would tell me take the pain and throw it away. There was no crying, not allowed to get hurt. So I just grew up that being a man was you know, just never cried,

never show emotion. Yeah I get that. Oh yeah. So there's a time in a place for it though. It went absolutely oh yeah. So it went all the way to the end of the mission. From the thought of maybe I should take my own life to save what's left of this, that went all the way to the end of the mission. Oh yeah, hours later. So the first time you actually slept in a safe bed. That was it. Yep, So laying in that bed, was there any feeling of gratefulness or was it all clouded by cloudy? Dude,

I'm glad you brought that up. It was such a cloudy experience, Like after getting back. It was it was quiet, you know. I remember the first time I closed my eyes. We were we had some detainees, some prisoners, and a prisoner was sitting next to me, and I closed my eyes and I heard this loud crack go past my ear, like a bullet. And I woke up and I looked at round and no one flinched, no one moved, and that sound was inside my head. And I was just so used to hearing snap snap. And when it was

quiet time, it was just I took a shower. I was forced to take a shower. I didn't know how bad I smelt after five days and you know, but forced to take a shower and lay down in bed, and it was just a it was quiet, man, it was quiet. I think I watched Taken two after that, or no, I watched Hancock. Yeah, Will Smith, yeah, a little bit, a little bit. Yeah. It's like a chicken noodle soup for the exactly. Yep. I'll do that with

the Office. If I'm going through a rough time. I watched The Office and it's you know, soul food for the brain after scary movies. Man, you have to watch turn on all the lights after a scary movie. That's what I do, and watch like Home Alone or something, you know. Yep. So now now it's been eleven years, right, something like that, ten years, is there now a feeling of I'm glad I made it. Yeah, you got a little boy out here, he's right out here in the lobby,

beautiful wife, beautiful little boy years old. Is there now a feeling of maybe maybe there is a sliver of goodness that I was supposed to make it out of there? Yeah? Man, I think that was the big wake up call, like not even creating life, you know, shout out to women. Man, that's crazy, you know. But I'm like, I think having a family and and and just there is goodness, you know, and you see it in every child, any baby, any any kid. Man, They're all perfect. You know, there's nothing

wrong about them. And like we were all that way at some point in time. You know. It's just the things that happen in life make the world seem to be grim and dark, and people are you know, crazy at times, but we all come from that same seed. And I think that getting a chance to experience that and see it with my own eyes and be a part of that creation of something that is pure great goodness, it's it put a big twist on things, man. It took away the bad stuff that I saw and gave

a little bit of a spark. Like you know, that's all that matters now of is that thing, whatever it is, to keep it good. I want to keep it good. You know. If he can be a good person throughout this whole duration or this journey of life, man, then you know he'll be a blessing to somebody and it's a good thing, you know. I see it that way. Man. I've said on this podcast before that so much of life is suffering. Like humans are here and we suffer. That's what we do best. The only way you can't

get rid of the suffering. You can't. There's nothing you could do. It's coming, yep. But you could offset it with meaning. And that's exactly what you're doing. You're offsetting the suffering that you've had and that you will continue to have. Through meaning, and through meaning means responsibility, your wife, your little boy, raising him up the best that you know how you have to. And that offsets it doesn't erase, It doesn't erase the suffering, but it it ameliates it

enough to tolerate it. Yep, yep, yep that I we mean, you haven't spoken in person. It's been three hundred and sixty six days. Did you know that? No, three hundred and sixty six days. I know that because wow, because it was June fourth. We got together and there was

a leap yer this year. I didn't account for that. Yeah, but we got together on a podcast with the Code of Minor and that was on June fourth, and it was here at the Yue Farm, and we talked about, ironically in that podcast, is there a day in your life that defined you? We kind of went around the

circle and then that night became mine. I'm and you know what, like, I don't I'm not a big I don't cry a lot, you know, But that day and when I found out, dude, it's I did, and I texted you and stuff like that, it was it was hard to I couldn't imagine. Yeah, damn, dude, it's really weird that that's the last time we talked, and we talked about what day to find you. I didn't know that just a few hours I would be in my hell with with losing my little boy and who's now

the same age as yours. And and I think, I do believe that everything happens for a reason. Uh. As far as us being together that day, it was it was a special thing. And and I respect you as a person, and and I respect the way that you have offset your suffering through meaning and that that you could even sit here and uh and be positive at all. Oh yeah, dude, you're the inspiration man, like you know, Yeah, I have d I have a boy, you know, So

it's a yeah, dude, I can yeah tell me. I know that I know that you have some things that you do to clear your mind. Yep, yep, you have to. Oh yeah, it's the nation's deadly. As a sniper, you don't just live a normal life and go through nine to five. You have to have a ritual component to your life where you go, Man, I have to do this to recharge my brain. Yeah. I do a lot of meditation, man, And that's one thing I picked up.

I want to say, three years ago, with the birth of my son, I picked up meditation and like really got I grew up wanting to know meditation. This guy named Michael White from middle school when dragon ball z was a thing and chi energy and all these chakra stuff, so he introduced me to it. And as a kid, I've always wanted to learn how to meditate or or how to meditate and tried it as a kid and I didn't get the concept of it. I just thought

you closed your eyes and it was boring. So yeah, I got really serious about it three years ago, and I changed my life, man, big time. Of It's the only time I get a chance to be quiet and question myself, get a chance to see myself from not only the inside, but how other people view me or what other people see what you know, it's it's a it's a it's been a really good game changer. Man.

I've becomes it's weird, but I've become like way more connected with like the earth, man, you know, way more connected with the earth and seeing like the uh beauty and a lot of you know, a lot of things and nature and the similarities between nature and mankind and even with but this whole pandemic thing or whatever you

want to call it. It's when everybody went inside mother nature became happy, It got really happy, and it made me think that, you know, we don't even our time here is so short, and it's all going to end one day and when it, when it does, the earth and everything else is going to continue to move on

just as happy, just as happy. So it's like we're already on this short linears you know, scale of time, and to think that, you know, we're so important that our negativity could you know, influence or we want to perpetuate this negativity is so much that it's going to have an impact on the earth, man are, on mankind. It's it's kind of not even just selfish. It's just

a dumb move to thing. It's just a dumb metality itself. Absolutely, I want to I'm gonna take a quick break and then and then I want to I want to actually talk specific on what how you meditate because maybe someone's out there thinking, yeah, how does this do do it? I want to try it. Yeah, we'll be back taking

a quick break. I hope you like the podcast. I hope you're enjoying Nick Irving telling his stories, his perspective on life, and I want to tell you guys what we break that This Friday, June the twelfth, we are having Yeee Apparel's big summer launch. We have all kinds of new apparel. It's gonna happen at ten am and typically these have sold out pretty quick, So you're gonna want to go to yee dot com or yeee apparel dot com and get there early and make sure you

set your alarms in your phone. Say Friday, Hey, Hey, Siri, Friday, remind me on Friday that it's the yee Apparel of Summer launch, so that you can get it right in there at ten am and have access to the store and pick whatever you want because it's it's it's tough to see people that are that are you know, die hard ye Nation and they go in there and they find their favorite shirt and then they click large and it says sold out. I don't want that to happen to you. I am going to say right now on

this podcast. This particular hat, this is the the multi multi wildlife hat. We'll call it that. I don't know what they're calling it, but it's one of my favorite hats to wear, and I'm gonna give this away on this podcast. Comment below, Sniper, Comment below, Sniper and I will sign it. Nick will sign it, and we will contact you, pick a random winner and mail it out. Love you guys, more back. So do you meditate every day? Every day? Okay, every day every day? How long it fluctuates?

The minimum thirty minutes. The longest I've done was two hours, and that was like on a bad day, not a bad day. It was just a lot of stuff going on and I just wanted to take that time. But basically, how I do it, it's finding a nice room that I'm comfortable in. Usually it's dark for me. I like it dark. Set me up. What's the room in your house that you do this? It's got to be completely bare, And so I read a lot of like weird books, weird books, you know, Christian books, the Bible, front to

witchcraft and occultism. But not necessarily, I, you know, associate myself. I dislike knowledge and I like to understand maybe the spirit a little bit more in depth. But my room is completely bare, white walls, carpet. So you have a room just for this, all right, just for it. I don't think you need one. You can find a closet or even just a room you're comfortable in. For me, I sit down in an Indian style and begin a breathing process. I don't close my eyes all the way.

I kind of just look normal, and I breathe really deep, and I hold it and I breathe out three seconds, three seconds, and I keep that pattern up. And from that I start to really how little we do breathe, you know, how many, how little we do breathe, and the few deep breaths that we take in throughout the day, and oxygen supplies everything to the brain, all the blood to the brain, and you start to realize how more or how better you feel just by breathing deeply and

holding it. And I work different parts of my direphragm to help me breathe. A lot of people breathe breathe from their chest area and change that and try to breathe from your lower dire frame area. I repeat that process until I feel comfortable. I would say ten minutes maybe, And that's when my eyes begin to close and I

feel I relax everything in my body. So I consciously make the decision to relax the very top part of my head, the very crown part, and I relax my forehead and take time relaxing each individual group from the top of your head to your eyebrows, to your neck, all the way down to your toes, law breathing and relaxing everyone consciously. Everyone must group consciously, and then closing

my eyes all the way. And that's when I focus on these small points in your body that are called you know, chakras, and there's seven of them, so there's one at the very base of chakras. If anyone looks it up, it's a very simple to understand. I think it's pretty you know, interesting to understand, like these energy sources throughout your body. I practice basically opening my chakras and I practice another form of meditation where you rise

the Kundalini energy. It's this serpent serpent of energy that ryan goes through your spinal cord all the way to the crown of your head and yeah, all the way to if you believe in your third eye and all this stuff. But yeah, I practice those methods and your chakras. If you want to do the very simple version of that is, you know, there's seven different points in your body and you focus on each point and for me, I open each one. They look like a flower pedals.

Imagine lotus flowers. Each one of them has their own specific color. And you open one up and then you let this light like the sun. You imagine all this in your head and you open each one, focusing on each point inside your body until you get to the very top of it. And it works. Man, it calms you down. And a lot of people when I first started, you have a lot of thoughts to go on your head, like, well,

I can't concentrate on just one particular thing. Let those thoughts come into your head, acknowledge them, and then let them go. So if I think about do that, I can be meditating and go off into a thought of an eighteen wheeler truck, and I'll watch it and then I'll let it go. And I'm observant of every thought that goes into my head, just being observant, and meditation is all about observing, just observing everything, the thoughts in

your head, the thoughts on the inside, including daydreams. Right everything, start daydreaming, you realize you're daydreaming. You realize now it's gone exactly Think about Okay, well that was it and let it go. And that the stress is in your life's team. You know, they'll pop up and things you're mad at. You know, I don't allow myself to get angry. I don't dwell on them. I just observe them and

then move on to the the exercise. But until the exercise is eventually you'll get to the point where you can do it all the way through. Yeah, man, you guys think I think it's sometimes like a kicker in the NFL and it's in the super Bowl and he's got to make this. He's got to make this field goal. He's got to connect this kick through the uprights to win the game. And not only for his for his guys, I'm sure it's his teammates are number one, but for all the fans. I'm missing that one. So what can

you imagine? Not you the people listening that feeling times a million finger on the trigger. Yeah, yeah, you're right there, You're in battle. You got to make this shot. Are your buddy is going to die? I'm scared all the time. Either has never been a time where I've not been scared, nervous or underrested. Made him underestimated myself in combat. So tell me that that that feeling, that that level of anxiety doesn't throw you into searching for some kind of

meaning in some kind of meditation, in some way. I mean, I can't imagine, dude, it's because you didn't do that before the war. No, No, you're probably just the regularly regular guy, class clown, bad grades. Oh yeah, yeah, it's a dude, it's I don't know. I think we all have weird gifts and talents are even if you want to call them talents. You know, I think what you do is art. You know, I went to uh, I

went to college when I was in middle school. I got selected to go to a college program or take a semester for art. And I'm big into art. I love painting and drawing and stuff like that. But I look at your what you do, your you know, uh, your ear for music, your you know, intellect within it.

It's it's an art form and it's a gift. Not everybody has that and to be able to what I think are When I think about music, I think about let's say, your soul, right, that invisible thing that you can put on a stringed instrument are an instrument are your vocal tunes. I can't sing. I can strum around on a guitar, but I'm not able to project what

I feel an emotion to a massive crowd. You know, that's like I'm not trying to get too religious, but I'm saying it's like when Yeshua Jesus the Great Teacher fed you know, thousands of people with very small things. You know, it's the same. It's that concept that work. Bro, I think it's not the same. But you affect people and you change lives. I think if you can do that for me as a storyteller, right, you can change

people's lives by telling a story. But to play music, I look at it as if, H do you play guitar by the way you enjoy it? I enjoy it, but I can't. I can't do what you do where I can. I can play, but it's not that emotion. And I'm learning how to play. You know what I mean. You have a gift and a talent to play, and you feed people's souls with your gift. You know, you change people's lives. You may take someone through a hard time. Dude.

Music for me growing up was you know I could have a song that related to you know, when I felt that I was getting bullied in school. You know, I can go back to that song. It changed my life, made me feel a little bit more powerful or whatnot. Even in combat, it has a spirit to it and it changes lives. Listen to death metal and all these you know, hardcore songs to get us ready to go

into combat. So music in itself, I think has a portion of something in it that feeds the soul one hundred percent has to It's vibrations, raw made of vibrations. So well, let's take away the combat. Let's take away all your sniper kills, ranger school, let's take away all that. Now you're just a black man in America. Where are we at today? Sad? Man? I do I think it's sad?

You know, I was talking to three days ago. I was talking to a writer, a book writer, older guy, and he grew up around the you know, segregation and racism back in America, and my parents did as well. My parents, my dad went to a fully segregated school and when it all happened, but he told me that

it's it's worse now. He's still around. Yeah, he is, he is, and you know, they both, you know, it came to that conclusion that it's worse now, and I think that it's because of maybe it was never fully demolished. Our are out of certain parts of culture. And I can't blame anyone for that, or anyone can I think that to think that everybody here on this planet and there's a good and an evil that everybody's going to choose good, everybody can't choose good. If it were that way,

then you know, heaven on Earth. But being that it's not at that point yet, there are going to be bad people with bad intentions and bad morals and bad ways of thinking. And I think that, you know, you can't necessarily have everyone like you, you know, but the common acceptance of the fact that maybe we're just a person.

We have a view of me, but you don't have to disrespect me because I am that person or a color of a person that you may not like, you know, but the respect of a human being we can all at least agree to that, you know, we're at least human being. Whatever you think about me, you know, it is what it is. But it's just a weird place to be. And then I think, you know, having a family and having a kid. I'm lucky in the fact

that he doesn't know what's going on. Yeah, you know, having to explain him, explain to him though I'm not even sure I can explain it now, you know. Here to myself, I don't know what's going on. I think I'm not sure if it's something he was swept under the rugs for so long that it, you know, finally became a boulder and here it is, or we've been stressed out as a nation, you know as well, and a lot of people are just doing things that they

may not necessarily believe. Some do, but I think a lot of people at this point have maybe chosen two sides. And I think that's how our country has split. Regardless of how you look at it. It's not united, it never has been. And your dad, you're dad, What does he say to Why does he think it's worse? I should say, I honestly do think because it's on TV and it's it's it's being film more and everybody you

know has access to it. That's the way. I've seen those videos of the sixties, man, and to me, that was worse. Dude. We've seen the fire hose videos in Mississippi or wherever, you know, wherever that was, and he said, and he was there, not there, But yeah, how does he he thinks that the social media? I think it's social media and being able to see everyone's opinion of

how they feel. Back then, it was you know, three channels is what he said, you know, right, three channels and that was it and you saw what you saw in the news, and you know, that was it. He went to a fully segregated school. So I think now just having access to social media and you get a chance to maybe see people's opinions or ways of thinking, is what may make it appear to be bad. But I think maybe it's not bad, or it just never

went away, you know. And if that be the case, I mean, do I think there needs to be changed systematically, Yes, but not just in the favor of me because I am black. I think in the favor of everybody. You know, my son's not black, he's mixed, you know. And I think that these rules are whatever the good fight is for needs to apply to everyone. Everyone should at least feel safe or have the same advantages. And I always say,

you know, people asked, does that really happen? You know, thevantage of advantages of being black in this situation or not. And I would use the example of just me and movies and TV shows, right And I've been denied three times for a show and talked to on set with the producer for a network, a big major network, to probably cut my hair because it would not look good to a certain demographic. And I called my wife a meeting and I was like this mother, you know, just

told me. Yeah. And so it's a real thing. It's I've been discriminated against. You know, my wife and me both have been discriminated against for being mixed, and you know, called names. I've been called names and all of it. So it does exist. But I'm not sure there's nothing you really can't do about that. You can't change someone's way of thinking. You know, I every morning at the gym work out with these guys, both of them black guys. One of them is not racially sensitive at all, the

other one very racially sensitive. So and we're really close. So we get into these some occasionally, these deep conversations, and I always and kind of like I want to do with you right here, is I just want to kind of get out of the way, because I'm not going to pretend like I can relate. But I do tell him. And it's funny because I tell him this, and then I say, I'll never say this in public, and here I am on my own podcast. But it feels like to me that as time goes by long enough,

it gets a little bit better. Maybe, and you you are the only one that can answer that. But and my point to him, to Larry is, I say, Larry, if you ask your great great granddad if you got it bad, don't you think he'd laugh at you and said, tell me more about your problems. And as your kid and Larry's kids and my kids, every generation goes by a little bit of it falls away, or does it. I don't know. I know I get where you're going, man, And that brings up a good point. So I would say, wow,

I was pretty good. Yeah, I think I think you're right, man. I do think you're right. Over time, it has to work that way, It only has to. I think we may be looking at time and and and how fast change is supposed to be on a scale that is not naturally supposed to work that way. You know, But you threw my theory out of the water the very beginning. When you say, no, that's worse, but no, I think and that's the only reason why I think that, though,

is because of social media having access. We have so much access to the world now. Back then it was, you know, we had access to one view and that was whatever the TV told you, and you didn't have access to I can talk to a person in the Congo. Well, I never have, but I'm pretty sure I could, you know on the internet if yeah, the Congo, right. Yeah. When I hear people say the country more split now than it's ever been, I always think, have you read

about the Civil War? Yeah, you're one hundred percent correct, Yeah, Yeah, I don't think it's split. I think it's just having acts. Everyone has access to seeing forms of hate, and some people tend to gravitate towards the hateful side. You can pick and choose what you want to see, you know, what you want to feed your sol I don't see I do see division, one hundred percent see division. But I think it's also because of the fact there is a lot of social media you can look into. Division

is always going to be there. I'm a firm believer in that. I think there's a way to cope with it. But now that you said over time, and you've made me think, like, you know, my grandparents were growing up, Dude, I wouldn't last two minutes in their shoes. So I look at it now. I think we evolve and we start to see what's wrong. Over time, we naturally start to evolve, and you know, we get better and we

get better, and we say that was pretty crazy. Fifty years ago we were drilling holes in people's heads saying it's going to cure a headache, you know. So you got a point there, while mind is blown a little bit there that at least is going up. It might not be fast enough for most people. I like that. You're right. It's the curve, Bro, It's the curve. And what I tell Larry is more bluntly as I just say. Old people just got to die eventually. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Bro,

got to die with them. Yep. Everybody's got one hundred years man, Max, all right, at least unless you're lucky. I like that one. I like that one. See now I have to go meditate on that now I am. I am? That was the good one. Yeah, well, just the thought of that. I get the privilege of being in a Nick Irving right, right, I think I just shrine of Grand Smith on the wall. Man. We can't go to another subject after that. I just want to say thank you for taking your time. You are an

American hero. You have of You have many many times over protected the right that has allowed me to have this podcast, to have the freedom of speech, to speak my mind on a platform that I choose at the time that I choose, and to live the American dream by going and choosing to play music to provide for my family. I believe that all that is provided and defended by guys like you. I appreciate it and I can't thank you enough for what you've done for your

story and UH and for your friendship. Awesome man. I appreciate you, brother. I appreciate it.