Judge Judy Sheindlin

Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Good Hang. I am starstruck today. Very excited to have our guest, Judge Judy Shineland, who you can catch. Right now on Prime Video's uh news show Justice on Trial, which is a terrific news show where she takes on and and and breaks down a lot of famous cases. Um, but we have uh Judy on today and we uh we are gonna talk to her about a lot of things. We talk to her about um the importance of family. We talk about knowing your worth.

We talk about how she feels about liars and newsflash, she doesn't like them. Second newsflash, she also wears a really cute hat. Judy is here She's here in the studio and um it's a real good one. Um so I I I'm really glad you're joining us. And as always, we like to start our episodes by talking to someone who knows our guest, who who is uh a fan of our guest, and we actually have our first super fan interview today. We are talking to Eileen Roman.

Eileen is the mom of Belle Roman, our video producer, who's here in the studio today. And Eileen is a huge fan. Of Judy and her work on Judge Judy and her other shows. And Eileen is gonna talk to us about. why Judy is so important to so many, why so many people trust her and why her show was the number one show for a million years. So um Eileen is calling in. She's a she's a Boston gal and she uh she has the same name as my mom. So Eileen, are you there?

for having me. Oh my god, it's so great to hear that Boston accent. I try to tone it down, but it's really not easy. No, I mean we we'll never get rid of it. Wha and why should we, Eileen? Exactly. I'm proud of it. I think it's really great that we're talking to somebody who watches Judy Shinelin and has watched her. Sounds like as much as I have, because I think we're both super

Yeah, I am a super fan. Okay, tell me when you first encountered our our guest, Judy. I mean in the beginning. In the beginning. There was nobody like her on TV. And she was just Real. Mm-hmm. And the stories can be the same, but the outcome was never the same, you know? And I just loved her, no nonsense, straight talking. hardworking woman. No, that's why I have so much respect for her because I know that

probably wasn't an easy journey. Now are you are you were you a working mom? I chose to be a stay-at-home mom, but I took that job really seriously and I gave it a hundred percent. I really did. And that's my mindset because I always worked my whole life since I was twelve years old. You know, at paper root, working in a restaurant, everything. I worked at Brigham's, I worked at Jerry Jingle, I worked at all kinds of places. I love Brigham.

Yeah, freedoms. Oh my God. Best ice cream ever. So you remind me a little bit of my mom. My mom was a teacher, and then, you know, back then, if you were pregnant, you had to quit. They were like they were like, So sorry, you your job is over. And you were like, Of course, I'm so sorry, I'm pregnant. And she had to stop. She she stopped teaching. She raised us. See, she was at home for, you know, X amount of years and then went back to work after. And you, like a lot of women, your age.

w were at home with a baby and looking to figure out what to watch on daytime TV. What do you think was so great about those beginning times when you were watching Judy as Judge Judy on TV? I learned a lot from her. I learned like how to stand up for myself. I knew I learned about the law. Things I didn't realize. Um, like funny things like if you get engaged and you break off the engagement, you gotta give that rig back. You know? You gotta give it back. Gotta give it back.

You know, and she and you know, I didn't know that. I mean, and that's silly, I know, but it was just things like that. And the other thing that I learned from her was Um, I don't know, to be honest. Like she just wanted people to be honest. And she can, you know, any case she ever had, she just always she could read people. I learned I just learned so much from her. I learned like

you know, don't give someone money if you don't want to if you if you think you're not gonna get it back you're not gonna get it back there's a chance you won't. So I learned that from her too. Like, you know, she people loaning money to their friends or, you know, relatives. You know, that didn't always come back to them, and she would teach them, like, you gotta get it in writing, you know, things like that. I I learned so much, I learned uh

I I sh she just talked to like young people, like young parents a lot. Um you know, how to raise their children. you know, think of education. I just you know, things like that is what I learned. I know what you mean. She kind of broke social protocol all the time and and reminded us, especially us women, that we should just say it clearly and plainly. and don't get taken advantage of like she you know don't be smart she would always say like be smart

Don't you know they didn't keep me here because I'm beautiful. Like well, I know all of the stuff, you know. Okay, me too, me too. Like, you know, duh uh uh beauty fades but dumbs forever is a great Judy. If you eat the steak, you're gonna buy it. You know, like things like that, right? Yeah, and you're right. You're tapping into something that is deeper. There's something about watching her that felt calming.

She has a rough exterior, but I really think deep down she's really soft, and I think that showed at the end of the cases a lot of times she would be. say something really kind or like be careful or take care of yourself or don't get taken advantage. Mm-hmm. You know, uh and sometimes there were women there that were taken advantage of and she would just you know, tell them to be s bright and smart and you have your whole life ahead of you. That's how I

Judged her. I just I just thought she was just one.

Okay, so I have the pleasure of having Judy in the studio today. And by the way, and have the pleasure of working with your wonderful daughter. Thank you. I'm so thrilled. I'm she's I'm so proud of my daughter. Let's talk about how great she is for a second. She she's covering her face right now. But what w what uh uh tell tell us about why Belle is so great. Well Belle she's hardworking, she's kind, she has empathy for people, and she's really enthusiastic about what she does.

She loves what she does and I'm it's so great to see your daughters. achieve a dream that they've always wanted. And she did it on her own. And I'm really proud of her for that. And I think my husband and I instilled a really great work ethic in them. And I really believe that. And I think that helped her journey to where she is right now. Oh, that's so nice. I want you to know she's crying in the studio right now.

I'm so proud of her, Amy. You have no idea. And to and to have her work with you is just amazing. And I'm really impressed with you know you're also one of my heroes because I see you don't see you I love to see women in places where they guide and help other women through their work or their personal life. And I feel like that's what you do. So I'm really Thank you very much.

I really appreciate that. Okay, so we we're gonna um ask uh Judy a question and we're gonna uh and I need some help and some thoughts. What do you want me to ask her today? Well I think one of the things, reasons why I love Judge Judy so much is that she can really read people. She can really tell if you're telling the truth, if some if they're hiding a secret. Um, I really feel like she can read people.

And and I wanna know, did she always have that instinct in her? Is that or did that something that developed like as time went on and she h became um You know, she had more cases in front of her. But I really think that is her most one of her most important attributes is that she can read people. You know, she can tell what she can read people and yeah, she can't fool you you can't fool Judge Judy, but can't believe me, I know I'm worried because I mean we're about to do an interview.

I mean what if she just in the middle of it goes like I don't believe you. No, no, no, no, no. I don't no no no. She knows, she knows, she knows everything. Bambar, it's gonna be hard for me to not do a judge duty. impersonation to Judy Shinelin, who by the way, it's gonna be hard not to call Judy Judge Judy. You kinda look like her today with your uh black robe on, you know. Thank you for saying that. Subconsciously

I try sometimes to think about sub, you know, slight subconscious ways as a nod to my guest and I was like, I'm gonna wear this. You did it. It's gonna be an honor to have speak with her. It is an honor. It's an honor. All right. Thank you so much, I mean. Thanks so much, Amy. I really appreciate it. And have a great day. And uh I can't wait to hear this episode. I'm so excited. Thanks so much.

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I love your style. I like I don't think people get to see you in your actual clothes. You know, people only see you in your in and when you're working. That's helpful, so you can walk around almost anonymously until you speak. Yeah. It's interesting speaking. By the way, have you seen are we on that one? Yeah, we're on. We were? Yeah. Have you seen those baby judge Judy? Yeah, the AI, like the AI. I'm obsessed. Is that frightening?

That is so frightening. You know, you are all over TikTok in a way. I mean, everywhere. But your your sound, your y your your clips, your audio clips are everywhere online. Is that fair? Good question. Because they can really have you say anything. They can have you comment about anything. I mean I've seen some very reputable journalists talking about Penile dysfunction and uh that were clearly all AI generated. But I would say the young people

are very aware of AI. They are very sharp to see it and sense it. Like they know what is AI and what isn't. Like their eye is now trained. What but you know you still have an older population. We we have to be considered Well I know. They're gonna get they're gonna get the older population. That's what they're gonna who they're gonna trick. Youth y they're gonna get the older population.

So you're right, so we are doomed. So Judge Judy is here. No. Clearly no. Judy Shinlin is here. We are so happy to have you. Here today. And you're right. What I love about you is exactly these kind of conversations, which is deep-end conversations right away. Complex.

deep end conversations. You have them in life. I'm lucky enough to have had a few with you already as um as your new friend and also in your work. And what I always appreciate about you is you Are not afraid to discuss complicated things and also to admit things are complicated.

Yeah, you when you have to worry about it a little more when you get old because you get opinionated. If you notice that about old people they get very I know. Opinionated. You know, you like to think as you age you get to know people and you get Sort of develop a tolerance. Which I did for a period of time. That's over. That period of my life is over. I am so intolerant of anything that interferes with my everyday happiness.

Okay. What am I gonna discuss with Amy today? Look at Judy already taking over this interview. So let's talk about vetching. Okay, good. Let's talk about You know, c fetching is a great thing. Fantastic word too. Great Yiddish word. Yes. You you know, you live part in the city, yeah part in the country. You're a country mouse and a city mouse. But in the city, and even in the country, you're supposed to pick up after your dog. Don't even get me started.

I mean I actually walk my dog and I watch people and I can sorta tell when they're oh yeah when they're l Pretending to look for a to look for a bag. Oh, I had one but I forgot. I have a dog outside in the world but I don't have a bag with me. Right. So I I said, Well what should be the punishment for somebody who doesn't pick up after their dog? That's a great question.

And I came up with you know, death is probably a little too a little too exaggerated. But let's take this example. Let's say you've been dating your fiancee, your boyfriend since high school, and you save up enough money to have a lovely wedding and do a photography piece in Central Park with your gown. Oh dear. And the photographer is there and you're in your gown that you've saved for for five years.

And you sit down on the grass because you're gonna take this wonderful photograph with your gown spread out and somebody hasn't picked up after their dog. Now is the punishment the same? I mean the the crime is the same. Yeah. But the effect on the victim is totally different. If you're a Your Honor, if I may. Yes. I think you are. If you're in a pu if you're in a central park public if you're in a public place

Anywhere in New York you can't sit down. The minute you sit down, you're you've given up all rights. Well, so y you th you think that there is joint culpability. That's that's how I'm saying maybe. Maybe. Because and and why why I like this thought experiment is you are a responsible dog owner. So you care about your I know you love your doggies. And

I think that it it speaks to the deeper thing that you talk about all the time, which is what are the consequences of actions? I love what you say, which is there are reasons for behavior. but not excuses for behavior. That's true. And behavior there's many reasons to behave a certain way, and that behavior has Consequences of the

And I think it speaks to the larger thing of like, where are all the consequences anymore? There's no consequences for anything anymore. And this is what older people say and feel, but it feels that way right now in the world. Yes, and that has that has serious implications. That has serious political implications, and it has serious economic implications. I'll tell you a cute story about consequences. I don't think I've told you this story before. I had a case one of my

You know, little cases on television. And it was a a cart, a shopping cart from the Piggly Wiggly in Florida. I dunno, you know, somebody took their groceries, they filled their trunk with their groceries, and they left the cart. Gust of wind comes along, and the cart goes into the next car and dents the car. Okay. The owner of the car sees this scenario unfolding and sues the person who left. The cart. Ooh. Interesting. The defense was it was an act of God.

I didn't create the wind. I put the cart down. The cart was stable. A gust of wind came, blew the cart. Anyway, I found for the person whose car was damaged. My reasoning was, but for your negligence in not taking that extra moment to put the car cart. in the assigned position for carts, you know where they are. The wind would not have been able to pick up and hit and damage the car. Okay, so now we're fast forwarding about two or three months.

I'm in Florida where I live in the wintertime. And shopping at Publix. Mm-hmm. Fantastic. I'd love to see. And it's a big parking lot. I load my car up with the groceries that I've gotten. And I noticed that I parked pretty far away from the appointed cart patrol. And I looked around and there were three women standing in front of the store. looking at me waiting for you to return waiting for me, having seen that episode, waiting to see what I was going to do. So of course I said

I took the cart and I put it back where you're going to be. I assumed you would have returned the cart no matter what. I probably would have, but it was the reaction of the women. They said, All right, let's see if this gal Yeah Folllows what she preaches. Follows what she preaches. And it's a simple thing. And now I never go shopping unless I park my car right next to

The place where you deposit your cars. But do you get that you must get that a lot where people are turning to you to see if you're going to um follow the rules. Yes, because you're Y uh your life is a a and and and we people know you as a person who talks about the importance of these rules and then as a a person in everyday life, like we are human beings, we try as best we can to follow the rules. Do you get that a lot? Do you get people

Uh projecting that on you. I don't know whether I do or not, but and I know this is gonna sound a little hokey to you. Life has been very good to me. And I like to do the right thing. If you do the right thing most of the time or all of the time, it doesn't guarantee that at the end of the day, all good things will happen to you.

But it's been my experience that if you don't do the right thing, eventually, not immediately, but eventually, that's going to come back. There's so many things I want to get into because I'm curious as to where you know, your this f this strong feeling about there being uh a a system to follow and the importance of law and order and also how you found yourself like motivating yourself and your own path in life.

started very young, I assume, in your own family. What was New York in the fifties like in Brooklyn? And what was the what was the feeling in your family with your siblings and your parents about what was the way to operate. Always the right thing. My father was a dentist. My mother ran his dental office. His dental office was in the house, so we were all very close. And There was never a question of trying to get over on the system. It was always You work?

You earn a living, you take care of your family, you save up, you go you go to Grossinger's. For a weekend or the Concorde. Wait, what was Grossingers? Gros Singers was a resort like the Concorde Hotel. Like um like uh dirty dancing? Exactly, but bigger. Okay. But bigger. And that's where Jewish people went for the weekend. There was Everybody was gluttonous. There was much too much food. But and you know, you took dancing lessons like you didn't I hope that the people who watch your podcast

n know what dirty dancing is I hope they do too. I think they do. I think they do. I think dirty dancing is still a but what were you like as a young d what was young Judy like? Like What was your what was your I fell I followed I pretty much followed the rules and when the couple of times that I didn't and I incurred the disappointment wrath of my father who never hit me. Yeah. But I never wanted to disappoint him. Uh I said, you know what? It wasn't worth it. Marvin wasn't worth it.

Sneaking away with Sneaking away with Marvin wasn't worth it. It never is. No. Um but you you you've spoken about your relationship with your dad. It was a it was a very important one for you. Do you think it gave you confidence? Of course. I I do think that women find their confidence from their fathers. They find loving, etc., from their mothers. I think. I know some women who would argue with that. But the women I know who feel terrific about themselves.

had wonderful encouraging relationships with their dads. And you did. And I did. And how did he used to encourage you? Wha wh and what what did it look like? What did it look like? I'd look like if I had a pimple on my forehead, he said, Oh my God, that is so gorgeous. Everyone should have one. Not quite as big as yours, but everyone should have one.

Uh and he recognized my limitations, I think, my intellectual limitations. I'm not an academic. Uh and believe it or not, Amy, I'm not intellectually curious. I'm not. If something is, it is. I don't have to know why it is. I know it just is. It makes my life much less complicated. And and he understood that. Was he like that? No, he was more of an academic and he filled people's teeth, but he wrote poetry and he carved things in wood and soap. He loved the ballet in the theater. Uh he

She was more of a renaissance person. Not me. I I'm a meat and potatoes girl. But you're so good at at figuring out people. So where did you get your people skills? That I don't know. That I don't know. That I think is probably is probably uh genetic just like music play like just like Mozart, Mozart or Rembrandt.

I think you have a particular skill. I think everybody has a particular skill. Just getting back to little or or younger Judy, you decide, okay, I have this part of me that like that kind of sees the world this way. I wanna be I wanna go to law school. What year did you graduate law school? I graduated I think in nineteen sixty four from law school. Um, I did college in I don't know, five and a half years, went summers and got out of law school.

And then I had a job that I hated. Yeah, corporate lawyer? I was I worked for L'Oreal of Paris. They were hiring two lawyers, a man and a woman. And the man they put in corporate the corporate effect. And me, they gave a sheet. of drug products that it were their L'Oreal products, suffrage and all different kinds of hair tints.

And they gave me the job of calling the drug stores the and getting orders from them. He was doing law work. Wow. And I was doing sales basically and I was doing sales secretarial work. Yeah. So I did what You did then. You got pregnant. That was the only way to to get out of here. With a job. And then I was home for a while with my kids for a bit. And I started watching soap operas. Oh, which one? Now I don't remember, but y i i I sit Life has to be more than this for me.

So I was fortunate to go to an event from a lawyer's event and I met the uh law student who was a lost a man who was a law student with me and he said, I'm looking for somebody in the family court. I work at corporation counsel in the family court. You're interested in a job. And I remember going home and telling my family, I said, Mommy's going to work and who's gonna take care of us? And I said, A very nice lady.

And they said, Who is it? I said, I don't know yet. But she'll be a very nice lady. You're gonna be very happy today. But you know, I love that story because I mean, I think on behalf of working women everywhere. And women that work in the home, which is also its own job, that th you always were uh example of a woman who got great self-esteem from their work and who were we got to see work in real time. I mean, that is what watching you feels like. It feels like a very successful woman at work.

You can I mean you have two boys, you love them, they love you. Um And I we have this host of a family now at Blizzard. Okay, you have a blended family. We have a blended family, and my second great grandchild, who's cute as a bugs here, uh

I'm sure some would have preferred that I be home to make them a hot lunch and send it off to school like everybody else's parent moms did in those years. Yeah, you were very unique in that way. Uh you know, but there weren't a lot of full time working moms. But I can tell you now, they are reaping the benefit

of my being a full time working person. Yeah. And what did how did you deal with being one of a few during that time? Like where did you where did you uh did you f did you struggle at all with full? No, I didn't struggle at all. I just felt as if it was right for me. And You know, I think that if you're happy at home being a full time homemaker and parent.

And they're needed. You know, you need somebody to take kids on field trips and to be there for the bake sale and for be an really active part of the PTA. That's what makes things go around. If that's satisfying for you, that's great. But I always believed that a woman. has to have a way of earning a living. Mm-hmm. Why? Because if a woman, different from a man, if a woman doesn't have a way of supporting herself, She is in a position of being controlled. That doesn't happen all the time.

And it doesn't always happen in a fashion that's aggressive. Right. But that's a mentality. And so in the back of your mind, you should always have a way of saying, I don't like this. This is not making me happy. This is not making me fulfilled. I would like to change, but I can't. Because I have no I don't have a plan. I don't have an exit plan. And That's very sad for a woman. A man always has an exit plan. I mean, he could live out of most men can live out of a shoe.

Yeah, they they really can. But I but I think but you were you were ahead of your time in that thinking. That was a you were. I mean you were you were uh unique in that way because you were coming up during a time when that wasn't always the way women n certainly weren't encouraged to be that way.

but also couldn't find it in themselves. No, they were supposed to be nurses or teachers. Yes. My first husband thought that that was the only thing women did. They were nurses or not. My mom talks about that, that her father sat her down and said, Do you want to be a nurse or a nurse or a teacher?

Yeah. And he was he's a love he was a lovely And he loved her? And loved her very, very much and believed her to be smart and all of those things, but just assumed like which one? That's your that's that's your choice. Right. Yeah. And so what so did you get any pushback at the time from other people? Like were you did you feel supported when you were making these kind of choices in your life? Like with I felt always supported.

I felt always supported. Yeah. Yeah. Um and then you find yourself in family court and that is kind of and and you've spoken about this, but it's so interesting. Like I love what how you speak about this, which is basically your life keeps unfolding. And the and you we don't get to know you, Judy, until you're in your fifties, for late forties maybe? I started my program when I was fifty two. Yeah.

And you speak v very often and really eloquently about the idea that you kind of never know what is around the corner and you never know like how your life is gonna unfold. And you just take this dramatic turn in your life from Being in family court to being on TV. When you were first on TV, did you have to kind of learn how to be yourself, quote unquote, on TV? It was easy. No, it was Easy. That's the person. Right. And if that's the person that they

said, we want this person on T V, why would I want to modify that or change it? Mhm. And it so it was easy for me. But being yourself isn't always I mean it's easy for you, but it isn't always easy for people like that's unfortunate for them, but it was very easy for me. And and you know, the public can tell, Amy. Yeah. Public can tell when you're a phony. Mm-hmm. Public can tell. uh whether you believe what you're talking about.

You know, I often say, and you know I say, if you tell the truth, you don't have to have a good memory. I stole that from somebody, but whoever I stole it from is dead. So it's now become mine. It's now become mine. Uh so I find if you tell the truth. It makes your life so much easier. How can you tell when someone's lying? Well if it first of all, if it doesn't make sense, it's usually not true.

If the story doesn't make sense to you when you're a relatively normal human being, it's usually not true. But what I love so much about w watching you work is in your show and shows. You have a t you know, you're not you have can have a tolerance for people's uh unfortunate choices and mistakes and l ler learning learning moments, but you have such a low tolerance for being lied to. Like it's like if someone lies to you

They're done. Well, you can only lie to me once, and then everything else you say becomes suspect. Exactly. Right? Did you have insurance on the car? Yes. Can I see the card? The dog ate. Uh my phone fell in the toilet. And I've seen you do something which I find very um satisfying to watch and calming to watch is where you'll give them another chance.

In that moment, I see sometimes you say, I'm gonna ask you again. Like you just say, maybe you just lied out of quick it is sometimes reflex. People are just so stressed. And You're being kind. You're a much kinder person than I am. Actually You are you are. I know you are. But you know what? But the reason why I say it, Judy, is because I don't like to be stressed when I watch shows. I don't like to watch people argue.

And I don't like to watch people um be um made fun of. Like it's not my thing. I and that and I loved watching your shows. So I didn't feel like you were there to humiliate or to let people humiliate each other. There was like a controlled environment that you were in charge of. And you were paying attention and there were times where I felt like there were gestures of

Grace where you would say, I'm gonna let you answer that again. One more time. That's nice of you. I'm glad. I'm listening. I'm glad you're a fan. Do you disagree? I know. Uh do I disagree? No. I think that sometimes people do. Uh their initial gut reaction is to be self-protective. Yes. People lie because they're nervous. Yes. And then, you know, if I catch you by the eye, I'm gonna say, you know what? You have parents

You think that parents wanna hear that? They're gonna watch and they're gonna tell their friends to watch this episode. Yeah. They're gonna You're having friends who will watch you sure you want to go there? I have the capacity, or I'm released I have the capacity to make you look like an idiot. You want me to do that? It's it'll be my pleasure. I'm good at it. That's what they pay me for. I would much rather you tell me the truth. Yes. But if you don't

Yes. I can I can handle it. You can handle it. I mean you can handle it. I mean it is I mean I imagine being somebody in your life who is try like do you find that

What what part of you in your personal life is softer than the what we see on TV? Everything. Hmm. So what part of you is the soft deep part that people don't, you know, that people don't get to see because with my dog. When my dog snuzzles up next to me. If I'm not feeling well and you know, they can sense that and she usually sleeps on the foot of the bed. If she knows that I'm not feeling well, she comes over and checks on me at night. And I love to smell her. She smells so delicious and

nothing but giving, you know. I mean if you're an animal lover, then you know. Yeah. But it's pure, pure love that they have for you if they're a good dog. Uh so I'm soft with her. I find you to be very warm. I like to think so. So would what would people describe as the warm parts of you that people don't get to see? Sometimes you meet a person who has sort of a kindred spirit. as you get as you age, you sort of peel that back and you

sort of eliminate people from your life. But every once in a while you meet somebody new and that's what happened when we met. I you know, we don't see each other all the time, but I know we have a A fondness for each other. Yes. And that's a nice and that's a lovely thing. It's something that becomes more lovely w when you're older because you know, you used to have lots of people to meet.

And I came downtown today from Greenwich, Connecticut, where I live. You don't do a lot of these two. And I did this is I only did one and that's this one. And don't call. Yeah, nobody else. Judy's not on some tour right now. Don't think she's gonna do a bunch of these. She's not coming out of it. She's not a good one. I really just came to see you for an hour. Okay, let's talk about us meeting because

I feel like I kind of manifested it in my own way and kind of forced us to be friends. So thank you for going along with it. But it's true. I mean I remember meeting you for the very first time. Uh we were on a talk show together. I think it was Kelly Rippa and um and whoever was hosting with her at the time, I don't remember. And then I brought in my book that I loved your books. I asked you to sign them. We had a quick

I thought that's it. That's I won't bother Judy anymore with that. Then I heard that you were gonna be given the like a lifetime achievement award for the daytime Emmys. I called up your people and said, Can I give it to Judy if she doesn't have someone giving it to her yet? And you very nicely said yes. It was my pleasure to write that speech. It was the easiest thing I had written. So Then I got to give you the speech. We got to hang out.

I had a very exciting moment where you handed me something on stage. Judy came up and gave me something in the palm of her hand and I was like and it was this. You gave me this necklace which I wear all the time. It's very good it's a very good luck charm for me. And then um we started to create a friendship together. We started said like let's have lunch and let's actually try to be friends.

And I what I love about it number one is that I felt like it was I mean, I'm the most you were by far my most I've been the most nervous and most starstruck to interview you of ever everyone that I've interviewed. You are by far the most famous person that I've had. And when you said yes, I was we jumped for joy. Cause I know you don't do things you don't want to do. Let's just put it that way. Not anymore.

I don't know if you ever have, Judy. I don't know if you've ever really Well, have you have you ever done a satellite media tour? Okay, you're right. You're right. You've had to do a few things. Yeah. But you just uh that it's what I what what calms me about you is I know you're not you're gonna have no problem saying no to things you don't.

And so it really meant a lot that you came. And it means a lot that you're and and it also you you represent what I think is like your your your ethos, which is it's kind of like never too late to figure out what you want to do and it's never too late to make new friends. How are friendships important to you? How did they sustain you? They add A texture. You know, we have a big family and I could be busy with the big family all the time.

And they're all they're different. The kids and their mates and grandchildren, they all have different cork. But bringing in a new friend into your life, especially someone younger. is a whole new perspective. Gives you a a different texture for things.

But for coming in to do this today, I can't even tell you where I would be or what I would be doing. But this was very good for me. I didn't know it when I said y you know, I had heard you s say someplace that you would like to have me a as a guest. And I was So touched by the fact that you took time and actually made a call. to present me with something that is is very a very sweet moment for me with the Emmys. I said this is a person who's really a mensch and she's not

phony when some people tell me about you know I watched your show, I grew up with you, I sat with my grandma, could you please sign a picture? I want to put it in her casket because she loved you. All true. I just got one from Germany, a letter from Germany that this man's best friend passed away. And he was cremated and he wants to be able to put a note.

from me with his friend's ashes. Could I please say something personal to Fred that you appreciate? Fred's not gonna know if you write that or not. You can get somebody else to write that. But I knew that You had a different kind of understanding of watching. the courtroom and watching me in the courtroom. So I knew you got it. And you're so terribly talented and it's just such a shame your plate is so full because otherwise.

I there was so many things that we could do together. I mean, we're both used to being running the show, right? We both are like we are like we like to be No, you're a writer. You're the writer. You see, I don't have that talent. Well, I would argue that you do have that talent. You're doing it in I don't know I don't. I don't hold on. Because you're writing in real time.

On that show. You are you that is you are n that is there you do not have lines on that show. No. But And you've written how many books you're a writer. When are you gonna call yourself a writer? There's a creativity that you have. that you have to know your limitations that I don't have. So if I were to say to you, Amy, what I want to do for my next adventure, that I would like you to play with me at doing. А вам то стіл бей Дудж Дуди Бакфром АІ.

We're all now now I know why we started talking about it in the beginning. Now I get it. I get it now. And I want to take we need to sue AI. Baby I want to take baby church and I haven't shut him down. I haven't even, I said, I want to get more people involved with this character. And then I want to take this character and create. A South Parky so that I can Judy Clitch through the baby. Speaking through baby Judge Judy would be a whole lot of fun. It would be a good one.

the right writer. That's right. So and I know Judy's still pitching me on this. I'm still pitching her. I love it. I love it. I'm still pitching her. I love it. I love it. Because first of all, I'm very flattered. And two What you what what I think I hear you saying is that

And what I love about all the stuff that you do is you keep trying to figure out like in what way what is my next adventure? I mean, you're always looking for that. You're always looking for like And you have to take your next adventure with your station in life. Now my next adventure. Is not being a cent. I know that. Okay, but this is perfect. Let's talk about your bod.

You look incredible. No. Well, few. Life gets life catches up with you. Yes. Life catches up with you. So what if you're smart? I was at a f I was at a Forbes conference years ago talking about women and I won and they said if you had one piece of advice to give a woman You know, and these were all business women, professional women. What would that one piece of advice be? And I thought for a moment, then I said, Wear sleeveless as long as you can.

That's my best advice. And then you have to know when to stop wearing sleeveless. Of course. You gotta and but you you weight train you I did, but I can't wear sleeveless. I don't care how much you weight train. Okay. Life catches up with you. That's why animation is so perfect. Because you can still have a voice. That's right. You still have a voice. You still can create the message. You're creating it through a fun character.

And you can show up sleeveless. But you are such a g but but to me you're an incredible example of someone in their eighties who are you know, there is I mean When I when I was growing up, being in your eighties was you know Yeah. You barely knew anyone in their eighties. It was a miracle to live in your to your people running the country who were in their eighties.

And it's like and I mean, I was lucky enough to be invited to your eightieth birthday, which was Western casual, an incredible dance party. You love to dance. You and Jerry were on the dance floor. Jerry's also We were on the dance floor. We were on the dance floor. Thank you for remembering.

Jerry's also keeping it tight. Jerry's also keeping it really tight. I guess. You guys are in gr I and I don't even just mean fit. I mean, it's just a uh an energy for life, basically. And um I I feel like I know people like myself are looking ahead to women in their sixties, seventies and eighties to see like, how are you doing'cause you're right, life does catch up with you, but you don't need to decide to get caught up in what is like

in this, you know, country and how we want old older people to kind of stop talking and disappear and retire and we want them to all kind of like get quiet and lie down and go away. I mean you're certainly not doing that. The trick is As you get older, you have to stay relevant. If you are interesting, people will want to gravitate to you.

Or old people will wanna gravitate to you and you have to be able to say to old people who wanna gravitate to you, you can't pull me down. You wanna get out there and Cha cha with me, great, but I'm not sitting home with you and watching the filter in the pool. If all else fails, I can always get a job with a law firm. Cause I had a fallback. You weren't stuck. Yeah. I mean that's what you felt that's what it felt like watching your show is you didn't have a vibe of like

I don't know else how d I don't know how else to say it. It wasn't a thirsty vibe, as the kids say. It was like I'm gonna do the job I usually do. I'm gonna try to do it over here. If you like it great. If you don't like it, fine by me. And that is also an incredible negotiation technique. And look, I don't want to talk to you about

We all know how incredibly successful your show was and how incredibly successful you were on it. But I think that the way you talk about negotiation and the way you negotiated is Interesting especially for women? Have to know your worth. If and women often have a problem fully appreciating their worth. I didn't at the beginning, but I quickly I was a fast read on this one, and I quickly understood that I could go anywhere.

But as hard as you try, you haven't been able to find anybody to do this. And you've put on a lot of people. Yeah. You've tried a lot of alternatives. That haven't been as successful. So you want to continue making what you make, I'm going to teach you how to be a partner. Rather than an employer. And can you tell everyone how you would negotiate? Well, every f few years. I would sit down with the president of our company at the grill on the alley.

And we all knew what was we were there to talk about renewal. And I would have an envelope, and in the envelope would be two or three conditions, three years or four years, and this is my salary and But you know, nothing lengthy. And I would take out the envelope and pass it over to whoever the president was who kept getting changed. I was still the same person.

I that I I recognized that. The face at the other side changed, but this face was the same. And I would slip in the envelope and I would say, don't open it until you get home. Let's have dinner first. And then tomorrow you'll tell me yeah, your name. One and the final year, the president of the then company was adorable. I won't name him. And when I took out my envelope, he said, Judy, I have an envelope.

And he when I handed him he hand he went to hand me mine, I said, I'm not taking your envelope. Because if I take your envelope it's a negotiation. And this isn't a negotiation at all. Judy And he laughed. He la he actually laughed. I said, but it was true. If I took it and looked at it and opened it Of course because he well and he did say maybe it's more than what's in yours, I said, then I'm a loser.

Then I'm a loser. But this is will satisfy me. Yes. This will satisfy me. They put it away, we had a great dinner and we signed on for another few years ago. It's so baller. And also, I mean it it it goes to sh exactly what you talk about that like There when you're trying to figure out how to negotiate, it's it's like kind of like less is more. Figure out your worth, state it. And then the ball is in someone else's court. Yes, but you have to make yourself indispensable. Yeah. That's

the key. And you don't have to be a television personality to make yourself indispensable. I know doctors who close their practices five years early because their assistant or their secretary who runs the office says, You know what, I'm retiring. And they say, Well you can't retire. I'm not ready to retire. I can't run this place without you.

Well, you want me to stay? You have to I don't want to work on Friday, I want three weeks of vacation in the summer, and this is my new salary. Well you've made yourself indispensable. Doesn't matter what you are. So Yeah and you have to be aware of that. How you fit in, can somebody else that they find do what you do. And you can also you know, you can't have unreasonable expectations. I mean you can't want to own the company. Right.

Well you could wanna own the company, but who would wanna own that company? Then have you bought the company? Who would want? Um I don't consider myself an artist. So it's easy for me to get down and dirty. Yeah. Interesting. And I don't have an agent. And I don't have a manager. I mean incredible. Incredible. I mean the fact that you negotiated yourself in in person. Well that's easy. It's very it's much harder to

for the company who needs you to turn you down in person than it is to turn down some intermediary that is dealing for fifty people. And he said he's And also when it becomes less urgent for you. Well, that's what it felt like always. Again, that's why it was interesting to watch your show. Is it felt it did not feel like honestly that you even had dreams about being on television.

No. I didn't. Yeah. So watching it was and and and and I wanted to ask you a question. So we do this thing um where we We ask somebody who is a friend of um our guest, who uh knows our guest or is a fan of our guest, we ask them a question that

That they should give to me to ask you. First of all, I tried to get your buddy Sam Jackson. He's not a veil, he's on a boat. But Oh, it's summertime. Sam would be on a boat. I don't know a lot of people know that you and Sam Samuel L. Jackson are great friends. We are great friends. Like really good friends. Can you just tell me how you guys met and We met through Sam's agent Tony Howard. Uh-huh. And Sh sh the one thing Sam hates more than anything in the world is

Yeah. You go find that. And key he's right up front. And everybody knows that. And I think that that's what made us friends. Uh we get each other. He has a wonderful wife, the Tanya, wonderful and talented wife, and he does spend the summer on. Boat. Yeah, he's on a boat. So the question I got today was, so Belle, one of our um video producers here, Belle, how old are you? Thirty two. Thirty two. So Bell I have food in my refrigerator older than you are. So Belle um

is a big fan of you, like everyone here. And also Belle's mother, Eileen, who is o is also the same name as my mom, share she Eileen has watched you since the beginning and she felt very um I I guess the way she would say is Seen, heard, and represented. And we talked about how your show gave both of us this like sense of like almost like a a grounding in a very like watery world. You know? You know, you watch it and you're like, two people or two two sides come, there's some kind of judgment.

There's might be some way out of this mess. Uh that's just kind of how it always felt. Like i i it's not gonna be perfect, but we're gonna try the best we can to figure it out in real time. We're gonna ask people to tell the truth. And there's gonna be somebody in charge that isn't gonna let things go. Somebody in charge who's a woman, which is probably That's right. Eileen? Eileen. Some but probably I don't know your mom. But I think that a lot of women I know from what people tell me.

a lot of women who felt that there weren't options for them. Because they didn't had not seen situations where women were in control not only of their own lives, but a lot of other people's lives as well. that it made them feel good and perhaps gave him a little bit of a jolt. Uh you don't have to stay in that terrible situation. You can, but you can Push yourself. You can do better. Don't bring that other bum home from the bar and give him your credit card and let him drain your bank account.

And look at'em. There's nothing there. You know, look, I see I would watch some wonderful women. Mm-hmm. Wonderful people. Smart, professional, working women. And I'd look at the schlub that they gave their car to and a Their own credit card that they paid for. And I would look at them and I would say, you must have something that I'm not seeing. it made them f feel good. Yes. Somebody had taken advantage of them or they felt they felt that they had no power, that they

They were just going through the motions of life. And you were breaking social protocol. You were saying it out loud in real time. I was saying it out loud. You get flack, you know, when you have an opinion. And I have very strong opinions about everything. You get flack. Yeah. I don't care. And I I think we're almost at the end, but I'm going to tell you I love the Judy's I'm going to tell you one story. You said

You know, sometimes some people l like and some people don't like. And when did when did you know that you were When did you know that you were an entertainer? Yeah. Jerry and I were sitting in a bagel restaurant called Talbagel on First Avenue when we were living in the city, and we would go there for coffee in the morning, and there were two women sitting not too far away. You know, you got your bagel and you came down, you sat down at the table.

And we overheard them and they were talking about the show and one of them said Oh my God, I love her. I cannot wait for four o'clock. I love her. And the other one said, I can't stand her. She is such a bitch. She is such a mean-spirited person. And I looked at Jerry and I said to him, you know, I know I'm an entertainer. I don't care what they think as long as they watch.

One hates you and when you look at the The people who You know, you l look as I sometimes do at I M B D or whatever it is you see, how your show is rated, right? Y you have five and it's this big yellow line and then you have a one. People love you all the way to five, people who hate you all the way to one and then there's two, three, four in the middle. I have very few two, three, four in the middle. Right. I get fives and ones. Mm-hmm. That's it. You love her or you hate her.

As long as you watch

Mm-hmm. And they do too. I don't they watch, you can throw a shoe at the television. I don't care. Yeah as long as your Nielsen number then when I was Well it this question is actually ba i it it it it ties into what you're saying because you know Eileen was asking like You have a strong sense of intuition about yourself and other people. And you know, her question was.

Was it learned or was it natural? And I feel like we kind of talked about it. But what it speaks to is this bigger idea of like you stay very, you track yourself. really well. You know what you want. You have a strong sense of self. I do. Okay. I do. Came from father. It came from dad. Came from dad. And how do you cultivate it? How do you keep cultivating it in yourself? And how do you and how do you help other people find it? Or do you? Everything is by example, Amy. I don't think that you can

You if somebody is sick, you can't tell them, feel better. I want you to feel better. Yeah. I I want you to you're not happy? Be happy. Rah. Get happy. You can't do that for someone else. All you can do is set the table. Is there anything you're not as certain about as you get older? I mean, I don't know the answer to that question, but I th I think younger people.

And it may be good. They're more navel gazers than I am. I don't I don't sit there and say, Oh my god, are you in or out or left or right? But I don't. Yeah. I'm a what is what is. Yeah. I probably could benefit from therapy. Never been? Never been. And people, people. We'll say, well, you you sh for sure could benefit from therapy. I say, well that's true. But I really don't want to know. Mm-hmm.

I d I'm not that interested in why I feel the way I feel and why this hurts me and why this makes me happy or why this makes me sad. I just want to say this makes me sad, and if I can excise it. from my life. So The answer is I'm not that introspective. And as I said when I started when I said when I started this this chat with you, I'm really not an academic. And I'm not inquisitive. I'm not intellectually inquisitive.

If I like the pizza, I like the pizza. If I don't, I don't. I don't wanna know what you put in your pizza so that it would make it a better pizza. I don't care. I'll go from Joe's pizza to Anthony's pizza where I know I like it and not try to change Joe. And the very last question, what is making you laugh? When you I know you love to laugh. You're a big laugher.

In these times, in these days, like where do you go to uh let off steam? What w is it old stuff, is it new stuff? What do you do you listen to stuff? What what what where do you go to the lap? I have very funny children. They all many of them have over the top funny funny sense of the world, funny sense of themselves and we see each other often. I keep the family close to wherever I am. And They're all wonderful and accomplished. They make me laugh. I f don't find anything really

The people that made me laugh were old school people. Who were they? Don Rickles made me laugh. Love Don Rickles. Well there were moments when Henny Youngman made me laugh. Take my wife, please. Uh Did um do you did you did your kids r do they like tease and row like what is No, they view the world i i they view the world with a light eye. And

They're fun and funny. Anyway, we we it's been fabulous. Okay, l Judy's done. Judy's done. I love it. You're right, I've taken too much of your time. Judy, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You mean so much. I really appreciate you being here. Love you. Thank you, love you.

Wow, that was really incredible. It was really exciting to have Judy in the studio and um And I'm I really hope that you enjoyed it as much as I did. And you know, for this polar plunge as we wrap up this episode, I just want to remind everybody to return their grocery carts into at the very least.

an empty space and if not the designated area. I know it's a thing, right? Like you you get all your groceries in your car and you think I'm done and the idea of going back out and doing that, but it does make a difference And I would implore you to try to even grab one that isn't yours. And then, you know, an angel gets its wings. Like you're you're gonna if you believe in karma, you're I don't know, that's a good thing to do. So just do it. Just just do it. And and picture just like Judy did.

You know, all these women staring at you and and judging you. Picture people judging you. That can really motivate you to do good things. Bye. You've been listening to Good Hang. The executive producers for this show are Bill Simmons, Jenna Weisburn. Amy Polar. The show is produced by The Ringer and Paper Kite. For The Ringer, production by Jack Wilson, Kat Spillane, Kaya McMahon. And Alea Zenaris. For paper kite, production by Sam Green.

Joel Lovell and Jenna Weiss Burman. Original music by Amy My.