Carol Burnett

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Welcome everyone to another episode of Good Hang. This is a very special one for me. Um, we have comedy legend Carol Burnett. You know. Carol, the star creator Benevolent captain of the Carol Burnett Show, an incredible sketch show that changed comedy as we know it and influenced so many of us. um, an incredible actor i in films such as The Four Seasons or the star turn as Miss Hannigan and Annie. You may have seen Carol in Better Call Saul or Palm Royale, which is out right now.

There's so many things that Carol has done and um you know I I discovered Carol from my living room watching her show with my mom. And we're gonna talk about so many things today. Um, and uh You know what, don't worry about what we're gonna talk about. It's gonna be so good. It's Carol, it's Carol Burnett. She's here and we can't believe it. So before we get started, we always like to talk to someone who is a a friend or a fan.

of our guest. And um, you know, when you are uh when you start in sketch comedy, um and you're a woman of a certain age, you have learned everything from Carol. And today we have someone who is a super fan of Carol Burnett and I think a legend in her own right in Sketch Comedy, and that is friend of our pod, um one of my many wives, the great Rachel Dratch. Rachel How are your headphones?

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For orders over$60, you can save up to$20. Ends February 28th, 2026. Terms apply, see app for details. Rachel. Rachel. I wanna show you. I wanna show you how far I've come, Amy. With the lessons learned. Improvements made. Listeners, Rachel Drotch is holding up her untangled headphones. Well, I see a little tangle. There's a tiny kink. There we go. But you've always you've always been into a tiny kink. Anyway, very Changes have been made! You look And I'm ready to go. You look great, Dratch.

Thank you. I probably have a little lipstick for you. You know I love you in a blue. You I love my baby. Those baby blues in a baby blue. There you go.

Drach, you know, genuinely when I was like, who can I talk to about the genius that is Carol Burnett? I thought about us because we grew up on Carol. Like she feels like So influencial We uh whether she knows it or not, and I hope to tell her today, it feels like she just influenced us so much. Yeah. I mean when you said well, you ask a question of cobernate, I got a little paralyzed because I was like

She's such an icon that I got like kind of my brain got kind of tongue-tied. I'm like, what do you ask someone that's had such an influence, a pillar of comedy. Yeah. I act psyched to talk to you before we were before I talked to Carol, because I actually have been kind of stressed about that. How do I talk to an icon? You know, do you remember when you first

saw a Carol. I mean my first exposure was the Carol Burnett show. So I just remembered like that sort of merry band of players cracking each other up, which of course we did later on in our own way. But um just that like the joy that they all seemed to be having together and her also like the way she would talk to the audience afterwards, like There's no sort of putting on airs about her. She just seemed it seemed like It is like she is who she seems. Like

Just a fun, regular person. No um sort of, oh, a woman shouldn't be doing this. Like which I mean, we always get asked about women in comedy and like we always hate we get asked that way'cause I think when we were little, like We just saw a funny person and we weren't thinking like, And it's a girl It was sort of just

subliminal whatever. Yeah. Unconscious. Unconscious. Like you're seeing Gilda Ranner and you're seeing John Belouche and you're not thinking like, but she's a woman doing this. You're just like getting this sort of role model. You're getting the the mother bird imprint on the baby bird. Yes. So Carol Burnett was definitely like that. Just the um the silliness, the joy in being silly, the joy in like

Making faces that make you look like you're not a lady. Like acting like you're not a a lady. Yes. Like that all is just so Joyous and so good for girls to see. But again, I don't want to get all free to be you and me. No, but it was just like who she was. But they should. But they should. Okay, children? You should know. You didn't know you were getting the message you were getting. It's free to be a good one. But it was a boys could have dolls, okay? Boys could have dolls.

Carol's show at times w as like the seventies came on to the scene, like Carol's show was like, Oh, like that didn't have that wasn't edgy enough. Or something, you know, maybe someone could say like, oh, it didn't have an edge. But now like with distance and time, I'm like, I think that's what what was drawn why I was so drawn to that show. Exactly what you just said. It looked like it everyone was having fun.

Like yeah, I don't think at when we were growing up at times I thought that comedy was actually going to be fun. I know that sounds stupid, but it was like it felt like it had to have yeah, it just had to have drama attached to it. And she was such an example of like comedy could be fun and You could be a nice person doing it. I don't know. Does that make sense? Yeah. And just like full tilt.

clowns, you know, like clowning around, you know. Like when she did once upon a mattress. Okay, let's talk about that. It seems like that might have been well what the hell do I know talking about this time period, but it seems like it might have been kind of really like freeing and groundbreaking to have this woman getting to add all this physical comedy into this.

part that I'm sure, you know, it's like you're adding in so much physical comedy into that part. Physical comedy feels Until Carol that it was kinda owned by the boys. Yeah. Did Carol feel like at the time she there were other people other women doing physical comedy like her? Get the answer, Cola. Get the answer on that scoop.

Also, you two have to compare notes. You you I'm sure you have you told her that you also played Winifred in Burlington High School? Is she aware? Thank you for bringing that up for people that didn't l listen to the very Highly popular Rachel Dratch episode. And Dratch, I gotta tell you something. That episode was gangbusters. Are you getting a lot of good feedback? I'm getting a lot of good feedback about that, yes. Every time I hook in with you, I go viral.

And that doesn't mean that you get sick with a fever. A virus. I'm not gonna avoid the obvious joke here, but yeah. Um No um But but let's let me let me hook my wagon to you. Things happen. For the best. Well, um, thank you for hooking again. But but for people who didn't for the I don't know, one or two people that didn't listen to that episode.

Where have you been? No kidding under a rock. Check it out. And then you'll what you'll find is that Rachel Dratch and I talk about how we were both in um productions of Once Upon a Mattress when we were young people in our in our schools. And Carol Burnett originated the part of Winifred on Broadway. I got to play that part in my high school. Rachel played the more I played the boring part of Lady Larkin.

So um who uh in the in the musical is pregnant, but when Rachel did it, because they were so young they had to take that part out. And then I had nothing to play.

So then it got even more boring. But l I know this is about Carol Renette, but I've gotta work through this. When we did our episode of Good Hang, a lot of people commented on our obvious love for each other and friendship that was

So obvious cause we like laughed our way through the whole thing. But um I was so I was kinda wondering since I'm talking to you, like for her about her female friendships, about, you know, does she have friends that are like her true blues from like before showbiz that she relies on or even now like her First of all, like her like non showbiz friends or her show business, like who has, you know, been there along the way that is part of her journey that she has um

Kinda like, you know, the little support group with or something. I love that because when I was lucky enough to do uh to Do something for her 90th birthday celebration. She watched the entire celebration holding hands with Julie Andrews. They sat next to each other and held hands. They call each other and I think I believe they call each other chum. And I'll find out. But I wanna ask her about Julie, because they have been friends since the sixties.

Wow. And I mean, talk about our age, like powerhouse, like Sound of Music, Mary Poppins, Carol Burnett, and their friend. Come on. Chums. You and I've always said that you Armad Julie Andrews. And you know, I uh the other friendship that I want to talk to her about is her and Lucille Ball. Yes. They were buddies. Lucille was, you know, kind of a mentor to her. She was probably in her forties when she met Carol in her twenties, but came backstage after

um a performance of uh Once Upon a Mattress and said like, You got it, kid. Wow. I know. I feel like there's a direct line between a lot of the women I know who are worked with who love Carol, like Kristen Wig, who works with Carol on Palm Riel and talked about on this podcast that she like burst into tears when she met her. You, me, Maya, Tina, like we all, Anna, we all, Molly, we all feel like we just

watched Carol. Well, Amy, you're so good at talking to people like you've met her too, but I always admire how good you are talking to the The idols and icons. Well I'm talking to one right now. I'm talking to one right now. You're doing a great job. All right, Rachel Dratch, I know you're busy.

Um, what are you having for dinner tonight before I let you go? Oh, I don't even know. Well, I know you've got some Broadway plans tonight. Enjoy your night in the town. New York City, Rachel is out and about. Yes she is. Yes, she is. With new haircut, looking great. All right, bud. Thank you. Thank you for doing this, Drachi. All right. See ya. Love you. Bye.

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Hi Carol. Love you. Love you. First of all, you look wonderful. Back at ya, honey. I'm so happy to see you. I mean, I I I got the chance to see you in person maybe. Longer than I'd like to admit, maybe like a year or two ago. I don't think I've seen you. Well I gave you an option. At the ninetiet. And then we did it when you presented me with an award. I got to got to yeah say nice things about you, which is the best. Thank you. And um

I I I just you know, I just wanna get this out of the way, Carol. You are everything to me. You're the reason why I'm in comedy and you are Oh come on. A living legend and it is really Uh very emotional for me to get to talk to you. Oh sweetheart. And it means a lot to me. So thank you. If I had never been born, you'd be doing what you're doing, so Well, we'll never know. We'll never know. But and you know

Um, the fact that I get to call you a friend and know you is amazing. It's definitely one of those things where sometimes you feel like your life is a dream. And I think we m you and I talked about this one time that You know, life does feel like a dream. And I know that there's moments in your life where you th look back at your life and say you remember the movie It's a Wonderful Life? Mm-hmm. And Jimmy Stewart has this angel named Clarence.

There are things that have happened to me where I feel I've got clearance on my shoulder. Mm-hmm. From the very early on in in life. I remember I We uh I lived with my grandmother in one room. a block north of Hollywood Boulevard. And uh we were poor. Our rent was a dollar a day, thirty dollars a month. And sometimes we could hardly uh ma manage that. And so I graduated from Hollywood High. And I desperately wanted to go to UCLA. Mm.

And my grandmother said, Forget it. You know, we can't afford the tuition. There's no way. Guess what? The tuition was UCLA in nineteen fifty one. Okay. Yearly tuition? Yeah. Uh well for a semester. Okay, for semester. Yeah. A thousand dollars? Forty three dollars.

And we couldn't afford it. Yeah. So we lived in this apartment building right at our A room faced the lobby, so every morning I would check uh there was a there was a pigeonhole mailboxes for all the apartments, and I would look out and see if we had a little letter or something in this. in our slot. So I go and there's a letter in this slot this one morning. I came out and I opened it up in our room. My name was typewritten on the envelope. And it was a fifty dollar bill.

I do not to this day know where that came from. Nobody in the neighborhood that kind of money knew had that. And that was my tuition. So that was Clarence. you know, and I got to go to UCLA. Mm-hmm. Then I got a catalogue that said Theatre Arts. Mm. And I looked through that and there was a one called Theatre Arts English. So I entered the theatre arts department. But also at that time if you were a a a freshman

No matter what, if you wanted theater arts film, theater arts theater, theater arts English, you had to take an acting course. Hm. Do you remember the first thing you did in your acting class then? Yes. Oh, I was terrified. I'd never done anything. I I'd never performed or anything. Wow. I thought, oh my god. And I came in late actually and all the other kids were teamed up and so I was the oddball. And the um teacher gave me a couple of monologues to choose from.

One from The Country Girl and one from a play called The Mad Woman of Cho. And I picked the Mad Woman because it was shorter, you know. And I got up and I I it it didn't even occur to me to read the play. I had no all all I did was memorize it and I said I'm doing a a scene from the mad woman of Chaylate. I didn't know how to pronounce it. And I did it and she gave me a D minus. And she said, The only reason I'm not failing you is because you memorized it. Hmm. Sounds like a great teacher.

She was right. She was right. And then I got into a one act that uh one of the students had written where I played a hillbilly woman. And of course we're from Arkansas and Texas and All I remember is that there was one scene where I came out and I'm this. over the hill hill Billy Woman and I just said, I'm back

And everybody cracked up and laughed. Was that your first laugh you remember getting? Doing s like performing? Yeah. And from then on and then some of the other students would come up and some of the chief said, Would you be in another one act? Would you be in

I kinda like this. Yeah. When I was talking to Kristen Wigg, who was here doing this, who I know you love. Yeah. She said that she kind of burst into tears when she met you. And I hate it when people look at me and cry. What am I scaring them? What am I saying? Yeah. But what I was gonna say is Kristen talked about how important it was to meet you. And um You talk about how luck played a big part in many moments in your life, but

As you know, luck only gets you so far. You kinda have to show up you have to kinda nail it. You know which door to go through. Yes. And you have to kinda deliver. Yeah. And What I love about your work, which continues even to this very moment, this very day, because you are working nonstop, is you are this beautiful combination of ЛАК

meets opportunity, meets gratitude, meets flexibility, meets collaboration. I've watched and watched you and your career since I was a young person and how you welcome All of those things at once. You're never taking anything for granted. No, you don't. But you can't. But people do. then they're wrong. Yeah. Right. But you also are so confident and skilled in what you know you can do, you show up for those lucky moments. And

I wanna talk about all of that stuff today, but you know, I think sometimes with I I'm lucky to know a lot of non-agenarians like my o you know, the nineties or the new eighties, babe. I like that. I just want to talk about the present moment for a second because you are working h what does work feel like to you right now today? Uh like how do you How are how is work feeling? It feels the same. Yeah. I don't you know, I'm uh you know, I'm a hundred and five years old, but I uh it's still

Like when we were doing pa are doing Paul Morel and all that. I'm just as excited as I was when I came on and said, I'm back You know, it's the same thing. And uh I was just what uh another thing I was thrilled about Palmo Royal was When Abe Sylvia called me, he's was the creator and director and showrunner, all of that, just uh two, three years ago I guess it was, and said, We're gonna do this show and uh we'd love you to be a part of it.

I said, well what's it about who's and then he's told me who was gonna be in it. Yeah. Kristen Wigg, Alison Janney, Laura Dern. I said, I'm in. Don't e don't even bother sending me a script. I wanna work with these ladies. I wanna lock eyeballs with them, get in the sandbox and play. Yeah. And it's it was really course the first few episodes I was in a coma. So Yeah, but I know you have it in your contract that you need to be able to sleep on set.

Yeah. Get up at five in the morning, go get made up. Go right back to bed. But you know, you but those women that you talk about, you know, have become your friends and you are and and I and I feel grateful for this too, is that you're a living example of it's just like One if one's lucky enough they keep meeting new people and new friends. Absolutely. Absolutely. I felt that way.

I was very lucky to do uh Better Call Saul. Mm-hmm. That star that was just before Palm Royal. Yeah. And I was a big fan of Breaking Bad and Vince Gilligan and I watched Bre uh uh Bob Odinkirk and all Yeah. And Vince Skilligan said, Would we love you to come on I'm there no matter what. So it it was a wonderful, uh wonderful time for me too. You know, you're you're one of those people that

You know, you've gone back and forth in your life between New York and LA and I want to talk about both and I bet that each block or section of the city holds a memory. What was Hollywood like when you were there? How would you describe it? And every morning when I would go out getting gone ready to go to school, I'd look up and there was a Hollywood sign. And we used to climb the Hollywood sign.

Wow. Yeah, the neighborhood kids and I now you can't get near it. Sure. But we would fly kites, a roller skate, and then we'd say, Yeah, I'm bored, let's go climb the sign. So we'd all Yeah. And it it was just And it was kind of rickety then. They'd fixed it up now. And there were splinters and I would climb up and I'd get splinters and it's a wonder we didn't break our neck. And then the O's were my favorite.

And I would just hang over the O's and say, Hello, Hollywood. Hello. And we'd then we'd do the Tarzan yell and all of that. Yeah. And also growing up like that. We played. Yeah. We went out and played until it was time to go in for supper. Yeah. Today And no one knew where you were. I yeah, no no you know, if if I'm I'd I'd hear my grandma's a Carol, come on you know Yeah and we'd come in and and that but

And I I say I'm going out and play now after school. And then you you ta you spoke about your grandmother who was instrumental in your life and how you would go to the movies together. So w Take us to that. What were you watching? Who were you seeing on the screen? Well, we would uh go to the second run just because uh they were cheaper than going to if we if you went to a first run it was A lot more money, like a quarter, you know. And so the second runs and there would be double features.

So uh we would see we would go One, two, three. Three, four, maybe six movies a week. Wow. And that was in the forties. And Betty Grable and Mickey Rooney and Judy Garland and uh Tyrone Power and all of those which maybe none of the people listening know those people anyway. Uh, they were my favorites. Yeah. And uh Linda Darnell was a beautiful woman. Uh she's not as well known today as uh You know what I don't know Linda Darnell. Oh I have to tell you.

My grandmother and I, you know, we would go and hang over the ropes when there would be a premiere on Hollywood Boulevard and we did and to watch the movie stars come in, right? So I'm I'm nine years old and nanny is standing there and all and the ropes are holding all of us back. And coming walking up by us was Linda Darnell. I gotta look her up while you talk. Do. Okay. And so My grandmother was grabbed her by the slip Linda Linda

Give this little girl your autograph. She just loves you. She did not and Linda Darnell was so sweet and I'm I'm looking at her and she said, Okay, dear, and I gave her my book and I was shaking. And she said, What's your name? And I told her, and I'm looking at this gorgeous. And I realized her nostrils didn't match. Why? What happened? It was just like a millimeter up. And suddenly.

Suddenly you realize nothing is what it's. Symmetry is not my strong point. Well my strong point. I don't think it is for anybody. Yeah. But I that But I remember that. You remember that so clearly. Oh my gosh. Who else did you have in that autograph book? Oh gosh. I had uh Betty Grable. Oh wow. Oh wow. She Linda is so pretty. I'm looking her up right now. She proves my theory that the more far apart your eyes are.

Oh. She her eyes are very far apart. Yeah. She proves my theory that if your eyes are far apart, you're very beautiful. And is especially if they don't cross. And I remember um Going we would go to the Gromas Chinese where they have the courtyard with everybody's handprints and footprints and so forth. And I remember putting my handprints into Betty Grable's handprints. And just a f a few months ago, I got my handprints.

But a after all these years after you know and I remember putting my and and I'm wondering will somebody someday put their handprints on mine? You know, wouldn't that be kinda wild? Yeah. But I yeah. So cool. And also Is ti I mean, is uh I I feel I did have a

uh fairy godmother Clarence. Betty Grable was one of my first guests on my show. Whoa. Did you tell her the story of what was she like? Adorable. Very funny. Yeah. Betty was on the show as a guest. And so was Martha Ray, mm-hmm, who was one of the funniest women ever. She was very bawdy and laugh. And she and Betty had worked together and they were good friends. So it was

For me, my God, I'd grown up watching Betty Graham, well, watching Martha Ray, I was all through. So now we're rehearsing. Now Betty. h had a thing about Coca-Cola. She had to drink Coca-Cola all the time. So what would happen was she would be going Constantly. I mean really, really loud. She just loved Coca-Cola. So we're in the wings.

Righty, and we're doing the show and Betty and and uh Ray uh Martha and I are are ready for our queue to go out. And Betty took one and did again. And Martha Ray said Oh for God's sake, Betty, why don't you just fart and save your teeth? I thought I was gonna die. And then we had to go out and do the finale. I was just hysterical.

Are you ready? And I mean, if you talk a lot I mean, I wanna talk to you about because you talk a lot about people coming through your show, the Carol Burnett show. I mean, when you host a show I know that from S N L and And in some ways from parks. When you host a show and people come through, you're the host. You have to you're hosting the show, but you're also hosting the guest and you're watching all the different ways that people work.

But it I mean, it was a a joy. Yeah. In fact, in eleven years I we didn't have one Briden person. Yeah. That we dealt with at all. Everybody was happy to be on. And another thing that I always loved doing was giving like if we had Cheetah Rivera or Juliet Prowse or uh s dancers and singers on the show.

We also would try to put them in a sketch. Yeah. So that they c'cause if they went on another show other shows they would just do their bit and that would be it. Or they may be in a finale also. But We would put Gwyn Verden in a sketch. I even did a sketch with Ray Charles. Wow. What was the sketch? It was a piano bar, mhm. And I was a lady who it was a little bit in her cups, very sad about herself because it was her birthday and nobody cared.

You know, and I was and so now I'm talking to Ray who was at the piano and we have this lovely little scene about the fact that I'm so sad and nobody wa and he then talks is very sweet, encourages me, and he says, Come on over here and sit down. And then we sang together, you know. And he said, I j I just love it. He said that I nobody has ever asked me to do lines.

Before. Wow. So he really he loved it. Wow. Okay. When you when you were in your twenties in New York. Yeah. Well first of all, what was it like being in New York in the in the was it late it was the fifties? Fifties. W did madmen get it right? Like w was it was that was I lived I lived at the rehearsal club.

Yeah, talk about the rehearsal club. Well, um I got I got a chance to go to New York. I a benefactor lent me the money to go. I'd never been any further east in Texas or California. And I remember my grandmother saying You can't go to you She said, Your blood's too thin, you'll be dead in a week. So much for that. You know, I good, thank you. Yeah. So anyway, I I said, I'm going to New York. I have this money. I'm going and I was so stupid.

And naive. How old were you? Twenty one. Twenty one, yeah. I didn't know where I was going to stay. Right. It's like the movies, you know. Now I'm in a Broadway show. So I'm on the uh airplane. And I see an ad for the Algonquin Hotel. I thought, Well, I think I'll go there and I had something like three hundred some odd dollars left and So it was raining I had a cardboard suitcase and got up to the Algonquin.

And I checked in and he said, That'll be nine dollars, you know. And I said, For the week? He said, No, for the night, nine dollars for w what Okay. So I gave the nine dollars and I went up to this room. And I'm there and I called Nanny, my grandmother, and she said, Come home I said, I just got here, you know.

And she uh anyway I I hung up and I thought, What am I gonna do? I'm in New York and the next morning I had one phone number that I could call and it was a girl who had gone to UCLA and was ahead of me and

Uh, she went to uh came to New York and she left her phone number with a bunch of us in case we ever got to New York to give her a call. Mm-hmm. So I had that was the one number I had and I called her. Her name was Eleanor E. B. And uh uh the phone rang and they said, Hello I said, Uh is Eleanor E. B there and they said, Wait a minute, Ellie, Ellie and I'm hearing all this noise going on, people singing and stuff

And she gets on the phone. Hello? I said, Ellie, it's Carol Bri I I you're here. Where are you? I said, Yeah, gone. She said, Well, get out of it. Are you crazy? She said, come up here, gave me the address. left a g Bing Bong. I'm it's a brown stone, four stories. Mm and I I had no idea, but I rang the doorbell. Some some gal opened the door. She said, What? I said, I'm here to see Eleanor E.B. Hello, Ellie. And I go in and there's a parlor and a bunch of stairs going up to the various floors.

And people are dancing and singing and playing the piano. And all women? All women. And it's uh it was called the Rehearsal Club. Mm. And maybe about twenty five women live there. And Ellie said, Maybe we can get you uh y a a way to stay here. Yeah. And she said, I'll introduce you to the house mother. Miss Carlton and Miss Carlton came, she said, Well, you're in luck, we have one cot available. And it's eighteen dollars a week room and board. It was sponsored by a lot of rich

New York ladies, which uh made it possible for that to be so inexpensive. Oh cool. And she said w this is a transit room, so it's the biggest and it's where we put new people and uh you'll have Four roommates, there'll be five of you. And she said, um There are rules. No men beyond the parlor. Uh and they can't stay past ten o'clock or or midnight on weekends. Mm-hmm. You cannot spend the night. You have to be in. Yeah. It was very, very strict.

Uh and you have to be pursuing a career in the theater. You are allowed to take a part-time job to help pay for the rent. Wow. But you w you must like go on auditions and you a di and so forth and so on. So it was very It's making me think of the Lucille Ball movie Stage Door. That's what it was written about. Stage Door was about the rehearsal club. That was it. I was just gonna yeah, absolutely. How funny. That was it also. It's the first time I had a bed.

I slept on the couch for twenty one years. My grandmother slept on the Murphy bed, so I have a bed.

Carol, you know, it makes me ask wanna ask you, was there ever a job that made you feel secure, financially secure? Only when I got uh On the Gary Moore show and Once Upon a Mattress. Okay. Because Once Upon a Mattress felt like a secure Like, okay, I've got a gig every week and I'm gonna be okay and I'm gonna be able to take care of my family. Right. And were you taking care of your family then? Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So Once Upon a Mattress is a Broadway show that you

opa you opened that show, you were the original Winifred. Right. Yeah. Okay. So We've talked about it on this podcast, that particular uh show, and I know I've shared this with you because I got to be Winifred in my high school production at Once Upon a Mattress and listen to your cast recording to try to learn the part. And Rachel Dratch, the great Rachel Dratch from S N L also was in Once Upon a Mattress. She jokes that she was the boring part, the Lady Larkin part. Right.

Um and um and I spoke to her earlier today about you. Give her my limb. I will and we we talked about how in influential sh you were to us. Um but when when you were doing once upon a mattress Um, you were getting like finally getting paid to be an actor. Eighty dollars a week. Well what happened actually again. Clarence. Yeah. I had been aw auditioning for uh uh before I got mattress. Uh when I left UCLA to go to New York, uh my friends said

What are you gonna do? I said I'm gonna go to New York and I'm gonna be in a show directed by George Abbott. Now George Abbott was Mr. Broadway. He d he directed Pajama Game, Damn Yankee's on. He was the musical director of all time. And I said that I'm gonna be an idiot. Okay. But that's what I'm talking about. That's not Clarence, that's Carol. Well, hold on though. Wait.

This is weird. But that's manifesting. Right. You put it out there in the universe. That's right. So what happened was uh you know, I was in New York for a while and then I got a chance to audition for a a re uh they were gonna reissue not reissue redo a show called Babes in Arms mm that Rogers and Hammersteiner Hart wrote and they were gonna open it in Florida and bring it to Broadway.

I auditioned and it looked like I was gonna get the part of the girl who sings Johnny One Note. I was so excited and everything and then and the director wanted me, but then they said, you know, Carol We're gonna go for someone who's got a name. I went oh so I hung up the phone. Swear to God.

I hung up the phone. Two minutes later the phone rang and it was Jean Eckhart who was producing a show called Once Upon a Mattress, and she said, Can you come down now to the Phoenix Theater and audition for George Abbott? Wow. And I rejection is God's protection, Carol. I sang what I had to do. Do you remember what you sang? Do you remember your auditions? I sang. Everybody loves to take a bow. It's from a show called Hazel Flag. I got back, the phone was ringing. He said, You got the part?

And had I gotten the Babes in arms, which never left uh Florida, I wouldn't have had mattress. Isn't it weird how when you look at life and you think if just the Some of the best things happen when you're disappointed at first. That's right. You look back and say, you know, if that hadn't happened, this would That's right.

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When you were doing Once Upon a Mattress, y we we spoke we we mentioned Lucy, Lucille Ball and but can you tell everyone that story? I know you've told it before, but to me, you know, you were very kind to talk and always talk about Lucy whenever you get a chance to, but you were very kind to talk about her in a documentary that I did. And you told this story, which I think is not only so indicative of how wonderful

uh and supportive uh person she was but how she saw in you something very, very special that we all eventually came to know. I I remember we opened In uh May of nineteen fifty nine. And Got great reviews. That's like, wow. You know, I was thrilled. And the second night. There was a buzz backstage and everything and I said, What is it? Lucy's in the audience. I thought I was more frightened than

Oh yeah. That she was then I was opening night. Oh, I w wha what year was this? Nineteen fifty nine. So I remember I I was stupid. I peeked through and I saw this orange hair in the second row and I thought, Oh my god. Anyway, I got through the show. and she wanted to come backstage. And it was off Broadway theater and it was really funky, you know, and I had I had a couch where the coil was sticking up, you know, and it was a kind of

Anyway, you know, I'm and it was Lucy O'Ball. Oh, come in, you know. And she headed for the couch and I said, Oh look, she said, No, I see it. Good coin. You know, so she sat on the right end of the couch. And f well God, twenty, twenty five minutes. And she called me Kid. Hm.'Cause she's it was twenty two years older. And she as she was leaving, she said, Kid, if you ever need me for anything, you give me a call.

Wow, you know, so actually four about four years later, I was working and doing stuff and CBS wanted me to do an hour long special, variety special, if I could get a major guest star. So the producer said, You gotta call Lucy. I said, I don't wanna bother her. All she can do is say, I'd love to, kid, but I'm busy, you know. So I got up the nerve and I called her. Hey kid, you're doing great, what's happening?

I went, I'm doing a sh I and I know you're b I uh I was uh and she said, Hold on. When do you want me? She's such a bad thing. So she did the show. We and we did it together, yeah. I mean, I I think about Lucy a lot when when um She f she was very ahead of her time and also we talked about this when we were when we talked about her together.

She, you know, she was producing and running shows even though she wasn't getting the credit, just like you were producing your show. She was so ahead of her time. Well, there's a story. She uh when she did my show. You know, we were f and we had a lot of fun together and and we were uh had a dinner break. So we went across the way to the farmer's market, you know, it was and uh she's knocking back a couple of whiskey sours.

And she says, You know, kid,'cause my husband at the time, Joe, was pr producing our show. Yeah. You know, and I But he just did it. And uh she said, You're you you're very fortunate. You've got Joe to do it for you. She said, because when I was married to the Cuban. She said,

Dessie did everything. Yeah. He invented the three camera system. A lot of people don't know the he said he ch took care of the scripts, he took care of the costumes, he took care of the lighting. All I had to do was come in and be silly Lucy on Monday and do the show. Then we got a divorce. She said, Now I know I have to be like Dessie. I gotta get and uh she said I I I didn't know what so they had a script reading of the new Lucy show mm and she said and it it was terrible.

It was terrible. And I thought, Desi wasn't here to fix it, you know. She says, I got called lunch. She said, and I went back and I figured I have to be strong I have to be n confronted but still not afraid, you know. She so she went back and she said and I told them in no uncertain terms to write it what they had to do, how to fix it. I was it sh I was just really tough. And then she took another little drink. She said, And kid That's when they put the S on the end of my last name.

Yeah. And so we every birthday on my birthday, she would send me flowers. Happy birthday, kid. Yeah. And Uh this one morning I got up, it was my birthday, and she had died that day, on my birthday, and I got to flowers that afternoon. Happy birthday, kid. Do you believe in in ghosts or spirits? I'm I don't not believe in them. Yeah. I like do you feel like you've ever been visited by Lucy? Yeah, by Lucy. Don't you feel like she'd be a funny ghost? Yeah, hello. Yeah.

You know Lucy if you're here. Lucy if you're here. Lucy. We just get our Ouija board out. But yeah, I mean it it and and she and and Carol, you're like that for so many people. I mean, I feel like you're a mentor to so many women and you You like you said, you got things handed to you and you hand it down. You pass it on. The spirit of that felt like it was embedded in the Carol Burnett show.

So you were skipping a lot, but obviously you go to a New York, you're you're you're in Broadway, you f Gary Moore. And do you feel like uh I mean, you were physical in a way back then. And a way back and way and away now. I mean, first of all, you look terrific. Well thank you. You're ninety two? Yeah. I mean you're you're just Well thank you. I mean physically your body has has been so good to you. You have a command of your body and always have. And it's like and I guess

Uh w one of the questions that Rachel Drach and I uh Rachel had that we were talking about is this idea of physical comedy, which was I love doing it. Yeah. When you would do the show, would you do warmups, like physical warm-ups like would you Stretch w w like before the show was about to I was very athletic as a kid. I would roller skate, I would do all kinds of climb the sign. Yeah. Yeah. And uh so I I was quite and I could run like The wind uh wasn't.

Well, they're the last things to go. Babe, you gotta I mean, what I would give for long legs, you have the best legs. Thank you. You probably could have been a long distance runner. Well, i when I was in junior high school My physical a teacher,'cause I could run, she sent a letter home to my grandmother saying, Could Carol stay after school and I could be coaching her and my grandmother said, No. Running is bad for the heart. Whatever that means.

That was ba that was definitely back then when every everyone was a little scared of everything. Of everything. Yeah. Right is bad for the heart. Yeah, like she said when I went to New York, yeah. Yeah. You'll be dead in a week. Your blood's too thin. Yeah, so you yeah, so physically and also Carol, do you feel like you have a thing that happens'cause you've done a lot of live stuff where when there's something that's a little

wrong. You know, when something's going a little wrong. There's a like a little fun electricity where you get where you get excited. Okay, now what am I gonna do? Yeah. Oh yeah. You've always had that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. Yeah. So on your show there would be people you guys would laugh. Well yeah, and but out of two hundred and seventy some odd shows

I can't uh there was I in fact I kind of looked at stuff because it it was usually Conway who was after Harvey to break him up. I don't think we uh more than Fifteen times. Out of 270. But people remember that because it was so delicious. It was. But then people say, well, they shouldn't have done that. That kind of fun goof around thing. I mean, that's That that just goes to show I think what I felt watching, even from you know It was a family. It was a family. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. It was ten years that you made that show together? Eleven. And and what was I I decided I wanted to quit after eleven. Do you remember the last mo the m last moment of the last show? Well yeah, it was when I sat on the bucket. as the char woman and then I just talked about how we were gonna not come back, you know. And uh I yeah, I w I cried. It was bittersweet. Yeah. But it was time. Yeah. And when and the last thing I'll say about the how important that show was to me is you

But I know you've spoken about how it was a section that at first you thought, I'm not sure why I'm doing this. But do you watch your old stuff? Do you watch clips of it? Do you know? You're not you're not in your bedroom all day watching old clips of yourself. Every once in a while stumble across something that comes your phone must know who you are. Oh yeah, yeah. Uh well actually when I wrote my last book was about doing the show. So I had to watch a lot to Yeah. Yeah you know. Yeah. Uh I

went fast through some of the and some of the sketches I oh God, they were terrible. Yeah. And some were wonderful, you know, but I hadn't remembered a lot. You know, yeah. Yeah. Do you um and and and do you watch

comedy now? Like what are I I asked my guests is not really. Yeah. Uh do you watch anything now that you're liking or I watch T CM. Who did you comedically, who did you love growing up? Growing up comedically. Who would you visit right now if you could on TCM? Uh Carol Lombard. Now that you know she was that's what my mother named me after. Actually Uh she was a beautiful comedic actress and could really, you know, with a turn of it tw this uh she was and that that's the movies, you know. Uh

Comedically, uh I kind of fashioned my show not only after Gary, but after Sid Caesar. And the and and Sh Sonny and Cher were in the same studio as you, right? No, they were next door. Do you and Cher hang out? No. Not really. No. Did you we know each other friends? Yeah. Did you watch their show when it was snuck over? By the ladies' room and men's room. So if we there was a break or I had yeah, I'd I'll go through the ladies' room and watch them rehearse something. Uh and sometimes uh

Like she and Sonny and even sh separately sometimes just walk on while I was doing questions and answers. And we'd get around. Yeah, it's great fun. Oh, that's so fun. She's lovely. She is lovely. I mean I don't know her. We just don't run around in the same circles. She just seems cool. Cher, if you're listening, we love you. She should come on this show. You heard it here first, Cher. Yeah. Carol says she should be a great guest. What's your sign? A Taurus? Of course.

Earth sign. What does that mean? You're bull, but you're an earth sign. I'm a Virgo. Teen is a Taurus. You know, i we g somebody's gotta get this stuff done. Somebody's gonna get stuff done. Tor Torrance And again, I know nothing about astrology. But oh well you know who else is tourist is um Shirley McLean and Barbara Streisand. They have the same birthday.

They and you heard it here. Carol thinks you guys should come on this podcast too. I think so. One of the most special moments of of doing your um wonderful special that um you and Brian produced. uh for your birthday a couple years ago. Number one, it was like the first time I had been out since COVID. I was like, yay. Um, but also you and Julie Andrews were together and

You held hands during a lot of that and sat next to each other and My chum. Yeah. Um tell us when you first met Julie and how important a friend she is to you. I was doing mattress and she was in Camelot. So she was a queen and I was a princess. And uh some friends, mutual friends, said you two oughta meet,'cause there there's there's d there's a similarity there and you'd be and

Later on Julie and I even talked about well come on, it's like saying a blind date, you oughta be to see. Anyway, she had a Sunday night off from Camelot and we worked on Sunday night. So she came with her friend and I had uh my friend there, the two gentlemen, just friends, and she watched mattress and we went out to a Chinese restaurant afterwards.

And we never stopped talking to each other. The poor guys who were with us uh just sat there and listened. It was as if g we were joined at the hip from the beginning. Mm and all always and she uh She taught me some dirty words. You would think I'm not a big swe you don't you don't love to swear. You're not you don't like occasionally. Yeah, yeah.

Occasionally. If I stub my toe, you know what comes out. And what kind of friend is Julie? My chum, we love each other. We are like we're sisters. She du unfortunately uh not unfortunate, but Uh for me and uh yeah, we she lives on the east coast. Yeah. So you kinda So w yeah, we uh and it was so sweet of her to come to the ninetieth to be with me. Do would you re where were you when the Sound of Music came out? Did you go to the premiere? Uh

You remember? The movie? Yeah. Uh no, I didn't go to the premiere, but I remember she used to send me dirty limericks when she was filming. She she did I wish I could remember it or even tell it. She did a whole parody on these are a few of my favorite things. I mean brilliant. So from it. So good. So good. Um okay. And then um

You worked with some um you've worked with amazing people. You have had an amazing life where you've gotten to play around with people who are kind of at the beginning of their careers, at the end of their careers. Um, was there anyone that you met as a young actor? I love to ask people this, like a a a young you met them uh and it was maybe their first job and you saw something and you said, Oh, they're gonna be very successful in favor. Vicky. Vicki Lawrence. She wrote me a fan letter.

And we were gonna do the show. And we knew we were gonna do something with Har uh Harvey and me, where w I'd be raising my kid's sister and we'd be a married couple. And so I'm reading my fan mail this one night and uh this was in December of sixty six and we were gonna go on in the fall of sixty seven. Hm and I'm opening up this letter and it's from this

17-year-old girl, Vicky Lawrence, whose very nice letter saying people say that uh I remind them of you, a young you, and then she enclosed a newspaper article that had her picture in it. She looked so much like me when I was seventeen. I thought, Well, that's interesting. And then in the article they said she was going to be in a contest called Miss Fireball of Inglewood.

Uh, it was eight other girls and so the local paper was doing a bit on each one of those girls that this was her article. And I look at and then I look at the date. The contest is tonight. The letter had been sent three weeks ago and it got to me from CBS and I it's tonight. So my husband's coming downstairs and I said Don't get too comfortable. We're going to the Miss Fireball contest tonight. He said, What? And I showed him the article. I said But should you

Yeah, okay, but shouldn't you try to tell her? You know, don't don't make her nervous. I said, you're right. So her father's name was listed in the article, Howard Lawrence. So I called the operator and I said, Got the phone number and so it rings. And this lady answers, Hello. I said, Hi I said, Is uh Vicky Lawrence there? And she said, This is her mother who's calling and I said, Is Carol Bernett Vicky? Vicki comes and I hear footsteps. Vicky comes up and said, Yeah, hi Marsha.

I said it's not Marsha. Wow. It's Carol. I got it. Would you be okay if we come to the c Okay. So we went? Wow. She did the guitar, she played the guess, she did a couple of jokes and she sang and she won the contest. And she was like you in peeking out and seeing just like you saw Lucy, she's peeking out seeing Carol. Exactly. And so uh

I was in touch with I said we're gonna be doing a little well, I'll be in touch with the We're gonna be doing a little uh very famous show that's gonna change comedy. But uh And so we we called her that summer. And she came and read, and there was another girl who'd had a lot of experience. Vicky was raw, but saw something. You saw something. And today no network would let us do that.

Hire an eighteen year old girl with no experience. That's right. They wouldn't allow I mean, Carol, we could talk forever about the biz because the biz has changed so much. Yeah. I know. I I you know. it's uh you can't be happy being ninety two, but I'm glad I'm ninety two because none of this would have happened today for me. Mm-hmm. It w it might have been it w something might have happened, but it wouldn't be

There's no way we could do what we did before. Mhm. Twenty eight piece orchestra. You know, sixty five to seventy costumes a week, two guest stars, a major uh you know, uh rep company. Yeah. You know, and and also CBS left us alone. Right. I remember you telling me that. They really didn't give you any notes. They just There was one note in eleven years.

Sorry, I'm laughing. It's the guy it was we were doing I was doing a sketch where I was a nudist and I'm behind I'm behind a fence that says keep out and so I'm hanging over the fence, you know, bare shouldered. And then my legs are bare with high top tennis shoes and Harvey's voiceover and it's just he's interviewing me and it's a bunch of jokes about a nudist colony. I mean it's no big deal. Right. So one of the lines with So uh what do you nudists do for uh uh entertainment, you know?

I said, Well, we have dances every Saturday night and he said, Oh, and how do you nudist dance? And I said, Very carefully. Well, choose this True. The network that was too blue. Mm. You have to change that line. Sometimes the change is even dirtier. Hello. So uh what do you do? Well well we have dances every Saturday night. Well how do you do how how do you how do you dance? Uh cheek to cheek.

Incredible. So much better. Oh and and they left it. And they were like, that's it, that's better. That's good. Also, uh I I don't have really any questions other than Annie. That's all Carol. Annie was so important. Annie is remains so important, but was very important to Gen X women. Wow.

I mean, we've t I've talked about it with Rachel Drach and a bunch of people in this like how big Annie was as a musical. It was all parts for we were that age. And then when the movie came out, we thought, Okay, here comes the movie and when you or Miss Hannigan It was like I saw that character for the first time. I really understood her. Well, I went to uh John Euston uh at the beginning and I said, I think she should drink.

I wasn't in the original. Uh, that she should have a little because it would only make sense that this whole well, you know. Yes. And so he he that's a good idea, Dare. That's the way to now

This is my favorite story about Annie. Mm. Uh, Tim Curry Bernadette and I, you know, the villains. Yeah. Uh Easy Street was gonna be this big number. So being a Hollywood movie, they decided to change it from the original, where it's just the three in the orphanage, to this big huge thing where they had this street open up, they had four hundred dancers, mm, singers, this people hanging out and I uh even had a a monkey grinder with a monkey and and Tim and Bernard and I said, it takes away from

The number, they're just big Hollywood production. Huge. And you know, took a week to film and at that time a million dollars or so and you know. Okay, all right. So we wrap. I flew back, I was at the time living in Honolulu. Bernadette flew back to New York, Tim, London, and I had always wanted more of a chin.

I had a weak weak chin. Now there was an orthopedic surgeon orthopedic no a oral surgeon in Honolulu who said, Oh well, you know, I can just get a little more I said, I don't wanna be Kirk Douglas. Right. I don't re I want w when it rains I'd kinda like to feel it, you know. And I said just like uh two or three millimeters. That's all just so I have a little more of a chin. Yeah. Okay. So no big deal. He f fixed it and yeah, I had a little more of a chin.

Okay, so about a month later, I get a call and it's Ray Stark, who is a producer. He said, We're going to reshoot the Easy Street number with just the three of you. Thank goodness. That's great. So now Tim and Bernadette and I are in the her office, Hannah goes off, and Mr. Houston says, Well, what I think we'll do is we'll do it well from when Carol ran into the closet to find Annie's locket. We'll pick it up when she comes out with the locket.

I went, I said uh Mr. Houston, call me John, dear. Uh John. Two months ago when I ran into the closet, I didn't have a chin. And now I'm coming out of the closet. With with the chin. He thought for a minute and he s Well dear, just come out looking determined.

Great direction. That's my favorite Annie story. I mean, I guess want to end Carol by asking you, what is the best part about being in your nineties? That you're not a hundred and five. Yeah. Yeah. Do you feel like a kid? A few years ago a bunch of us were sitting around a table said, How do you really feel inside? I said, eleven.

And and I remember maybe that's because that's when I would climb the sign, when I would roller skate, when I would put my handprints with Betty Grable. I don't I don't know. But something about being eleven. Go figure. Well I loved you when I was eleven. So Yeah. When I'm with you I feel eleven too, so it's really nice. And you know, you I knew I was gonna cry. I knew I was gonna cry. And Janna said when I cried that she would start saying cry, cry cry.

So but I knew I would cry but Carol that is That sense of play. Yeah. That sense of play. Yeah. Like, you know, you especially young girls like when They're kind of really magical at eleven. They haven't quite become self conscious. Maybe that's it. Yeah. They're not too smart, Alecie, yet. Yeah. That's why we're not talking about teenagers, good luck. Yeah. Eleven is still very sweet. Yeah. When they're teenagers

You are so stupid. Yeah. You had you have no idea what life is about. Yeah.'Cause you're too old. Totally. But there there's that like tender moment before you before you become self conscious when you can still kind of like do your thing and not really worry about. Uh, we caught her in a fib and I said, That's not good. So you have your dinner and you go up to bed. And and oh, yeah, you can't stay up, you just gonna and then I went in afterwards and I she was upset.

And I sat on her bed and I'm looking at her and I said, Sweetheart. You know we love you very much, but you know, if you tell a little fib, then it later on it might become bigger and y people don't want to be a liar and and I'm and she is looking at me like Yeah, I say and I'm thinking. I'm going to get a medal as a mother of the year. I am so I I could hear violins. I was so perfect and she's looking at me.

Well and finally I stopped and I said, Are you okay, sweetheart? You wanna say anything? She said What, darling? She said, How many teeth do you have? Yeah. Yeah. Perfect, Carol. Perfect. Yes. May we all get when we all get back to that innocent time.

Thank you so much for doing this. It means so much that you're here. I love you, Carol. Thank you for coming. And thank you so much for coming. Well, thank you so much, Carol Burnett. Um, I cried and um look, I don't wanna I don't want this to become a thing, okay? I don't love crying and I'm I'm you know, but if anyone's gonna get me there, it's Carol Burnett.

I'm now t technically using the good hang tissues that I have mocked other people for using. And now well it got me. So karma's a bitch. Um It for this polar plunge, I guess just I you know, um thank you, Carol. You are a legend and um you mean so much to me. Thank you for doing the show. And it just also makes me think about all the women that we talked about in this interview, Lucille Ball, Betty Grable.

Linda Darnell, Phyllis Diller, um Elaine May, uh um uh you know, we d all these all these different actresses, do yourself a favor and check them out. Um, type them in your phone or Um uh ask your computer. Ask your computer to bring up a picture of them. Um, or uh whisper into your robot's ear that you wanna see some of their highlights because uh it just

It's just a reminder of all the good performances. And also watch uh that great film Stage Door, which is a great film about what Carol was talking about, about a wim w woman living in a house trying to be active.

Anyway, I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm crying. I've cried. It's all it's over. I've I've lost all credibility. Um, thank you so much for listening, and we'll uh see you soon. Bye. You've been listening to Go The executive producers for this show are Bill Simmons, Jenna Weisburn and the Mr. Polar. The show is produced by The Ringer and Paper Kite. For The Ringer, production by Jack Wilson, Kat Spillane, Kaya McGill. And Alea Zaniris for Paper Kite, production by Sam Green.

Joel Lovell and Jenna Weiss Verman. Original music by Amy.