Brandi Carlile

Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Good Hang. We have the talented, funny, warm, incredible Brandy Carlisle joining us today. And boy, I feel like we became really good friends in this interview and we talked about so many good things. We talked about her music and meeting her heroes. We talked about hair and the changing hairstyles and how that defines you. We talked about her new record, Returning to Myself, and how great it is. And um we may have even harmonized a little bit.

This episode of Good Hang is presented by Subaru. Some cars go the extra mile. Long-range Subaru hybrids take that to a whole new level. with up to five hundred and ninety seven miles per tank in the Cross Trek Hybrid, a car that I've given my family, and up to five hundred and eighty one miles per tank in the Forester Hybrid, another car that I also enjoy.

Aye.

How are you? Where where are we talking to you from?

I am on tour right now in the UK, so I'm playing a show in Manchester tonight, so I'm backstage.

Oh

Oh gosh, you're in pre-show mode.

Yeah, but I got ready a little bit earlier today to look okay for you.

You

Um, and yeah, it's it's kind of nice weather today, like breezy, good walking weather. Um, but yeah, I'm excited.

We're talking to Brandy Carlisle today. Um, really appreciate that you're here to talk to us about her because the work that you you did together, um uh w with the high women was was so Special. When did you first meet Brandy?

Well, thank you so much. I remember when I met you at that uh Beatles event, you had mentioned um that you The High Women album.

That record.

I think a few months later I was on the Tonight show talking to Jimmy and he brought up the picture of us and I was so embarrassed because I was crying when I met you. I'd already had like three glasses of wine. Oh my gosh, you were so sweet to me that night.

Of course. You're s it's such a pleasure to meet you. I love your music.

Thank you. But yeah, the High Women Record, that was like pretty early in my relationship with Brandy. I think we just clicked and we met randomly at this event in Nashville. where I was receiving an award for something. But w they were also doing a bunch of duets that night and so I remember Brandy um and I both sang

Fun.

I think it was probably a few months later, um, Brandy called me. And I get it was like the day or the week my second record was coming out and I was at thirty rock. I was at the Tonight show like randomly and um just in the dressing room about to go on, she calls and she's like I'm putting this girl group together and I wanna know if you wanna be a part of it. It's gonna be me, Amanda Shires, and Natalie Hemby. And I was like,

Um amazing.

Yeah, like a sort of microcosm event because we did that one album. We did a few shows. We did like Newport Folk Festival. brought out Dolly Parton, which was insane. Um, but a lot of these really major career moments, uh like that I treasure that are my crown jewels are the the highwomen experiences.

Uh, what was it like singing with Dolly Parton? Okay.

Yeah.

Sure. Dolly, Marin said that we would be great together.

She just moved from the long list to the short list.

Dolly, anytime anywhere. Um yeah, uh she's a just a a legend and a and a real hero of mine. What was she like to be around? I think

Very few people, I'll include you in this, um, exceed your expectations when you have such a A surveyed like history, watching someone or being inspired by someone from afar. So yeah, just exceeded expectations is uh really punctual. I love that Because I put such a precedence on being on time.

Oh wow, of course Dolly is very punctual.

Actually she was early.

Of course she was. Can you imagine running late for Dolly Parton? That is a stress dream. Like can you imagine just like in traffic and you know Dolly's waiting for you?

Yeah, just disappointing her.

I just think.

Like I'd probably quit music. Um

Totally. You just say you just call ahead and you say, I'm sorry, I'm not gonna make it in time. I quit. I quit music, Dolly.

But no, she's so lovely and um she's obviously just like hysterical, dressed to the nines. Mm-hmm. I I I mean I assume she's maybe doing her own glam because this is like sort of a not filmed day in the studio, but she's Putting us all to shame because she's in full hair and makeup, like eight inch heels. We're both quite short. Um, so we bonded over that.

How tall are you?

I'm five one. How tall are you?

I'm a towering five two. Oh. What's it and what's it like down there?

Also, this is something that I hope that I take away when I hopefully do this decades and decades on, is that She sings every one of her songs in the original key of the year it came out.

Out dang.

A lot of people have to as they age and sometimes women, um, our voices mature at like I think they say like thirty five or thirty six.

I think about that with songwriters that are people starting to be aware in their thirties and forties that they need to Yeah.

Yeah, I mean I've found out the hard way.

Like, yeah.

Yeah, and then you have to do it live and you're like, I made this way too high and

Yeah.

Um

Ha ha

Yeah.

But uh yeah, just incredible singer. Um Brandy like really made it happen. I feel like she's she's reached out to these icons over the years and brought them into a space where we can fall in love with them over and over again.

That's what I wanna talk to her about is she is really good at exactly that, drawing out the h heroes of hers and of ours and kind of bringing them in and making them feel comfortable. Like she's she feels like she's y you said it yourself, she's like a doer. She makes things happen. She's a producer. She's also a good host.

I think that being able to go witness something really communal and almost like church. But for people that wanna come together in a way that feels inclusive and safe for all. And um Yeah, just connect through these Magic vibrations. I think, you know, just that's that's her her rare gift.

That's so cool. Okay, so do you have a question that you think I should ask Brandy today?

wondering as she watches her girls get older and she's Making music and touring and collaborating and achieving these incredible dreams she has. Yeah, the integration of family throughout that, um, I feel like has always been really at the forefront for her and Catherine. And I'm just wondering, like, as her girls get older, because my son's now five and a half, um Like, what what is it like when they go to shows now? Like, are they excited to be there? Are they proud? Are they over it?

It's a great question. And actually it's a question it you know, it speaks to the bigger idea of like being a working mother. How does your kid want you to uh, you know, divide your time and and how do you divide your time and how do you make your kid feel really seen and um and also how do you pursue your dream and not and be like a good model for what it looks like to be a woman who loves to you know, loves what she's doing. So it's yeah.

I love it. Yeah.

And you love the time pressure.

Yes. I think watching all those people thrive under pressure is just it's a really unique thing. You don't see that anywhere else.

I know. And we were saying that like the idea of like time like a minute or two in SNL time feels like years. Mm-hmm. I've done live things where they get you ready and they put you at the side of the stage and you're like, I I know I have two more awards before my award or whatever.

L40 minutes.

Get you out of your seat and you're like at SNL you'd be having dinner uptown.

Exactly. They don't even come into your dressing room or give you a warning at two minutes. That's like

Yeah. Brandy! Hi! Hi!

I love you so much.

God's name. I love you. I was very, very excited to talk to you today. And I you know, there's a million things I want to talk to you about today. I want to stay in the present for a second because I'm loving your new record.

Thank you.

I love all of your music. Uh but this one feels very, very it feels like not to imprint myself on it, but it really feels like it's speaking to me. Um and you know, it it's returning to myself came out in October. As we start today, I wanna ask you about the push and pull between being like introvert, extrovert, your push and pull between being a connector and wanting community and like

subtext and not very many people have seen that about it, but you have.

And and I you know, when I when I've been learning about you it's like, you know, you have

Benevolent, natural captain energy. And you like to bring people together. And you you know, you live with a lot of people, you have a lot of people around, you live a life that's very big. And has a lot of people around and I love that a lot of the songs on this record are about can I just like figure out what I what I actually want? Like who am I in real time and when I'm alone. Is the music about that? Is the is the record about What is it like to be alone?

Well, it's definitely about who am I when I am alone.

Who are you in your electric?

Well I have sort of yet to figure that out. Same. And really?

Yeah.

Is it because you prefer the company of other people and then don't take the time?

Yes.

Yeah. Yeah. That's a thing. So I don't know. Yeah. Got to an age now where I've learned that that's sort of seen as maybe unevolved. in some ways. And I got kind of self conscious about it within the last year or two and went, Oh, am I is do I have a made up mind? Am I a bit uninvolved that I haven't learned who I am when I'm alone?

So have you ever thought about doing a silent retreat?

I have thought about it.

Does it scare you?

It just really turns me off. Like I just find that appalling.

It's like what? Eight days of no talking?

Oh no a waste of time.

I'm doing a podcast and you can tell I like love talking. So do I But yeah, it's like okay. And I'm always fascinated by people who are silent in general. I'm always fascinated by people who Stay still. Mm. You're not a uh again, I'm just getting to know you, but I but I I don't feel like you have uh Hectic energy. Um

No, I don't think I do in in terms of other than just committing to a lot of things all the time. Yes. And that would my so my wife would tell you that I am I am chaotic in that way.

Yeah.

But like, not to bring up um uh trim carpentry right away, but yesterday I had the day off

Have you heard about we've been talking about Trim Carpentry on this episode?

Episode. Yes.

Kate McKinnon.

big fan of trim carpentry and said she spoke to you about trim carpentry. Yeah.

And and then I heard that you are also a fan of trim carpentry, but are intimidated by working with

Would big time because Nick Offerman, yeah, friend of the pod, friend of mine, also incredible woodworker. I'm sure he's into trim carpentry. Sure. That just seems to me like next level. What does trim carpentry have to do with what we're talking about?

I had the day off yesterday and I just spent six hours culking window trim, just trim carpentry. For just six hours. All I was doing was culking, just filling in gaps with like a bronze colored culk and nail holes and kind of perfecting the appearance. of the carpentry. And I was doing it with this guy that I used to play in a band with when I was a teenager. And he's like what I guess he's one of my best friends. We only see each other once every few years.

Wow, that's nice. Mm-hmm

There's like a bad radio station and there's just some curses event, you know, occasionally when a mistake is made. And I wouldn't have done that day. That's not how I would have spent the day if I had had the option to do it alone. I wanted to spend the day with him not talking. Yes. And so that's how I do my time with other people. I'd rather be together, but that doesn't mean that I want to like lay myself down across the puddle like a jacket to spend time with you. We we may not talk.

You know, your music reminds me of this feeling and the record does too, which is that feeling when you're in another room and you can hear people talking like there's a party.

Feeling.

'Cause I like the party. I want the party. I want people around, but I wanna not be talking.

When's your birthday?

September sixteenth.

I wonder if that's characteristic of your

I wonder, why are you what's your sign?

I'm a Gemini. Oh. June first.

Okay.

It's a very outward person.

I can't understand Geminis.

Yeah.

It's like what are we get what are we getting? Yeah.

Bye now.

What are we getting? What's the real deal, Gemini? Twin City.

Yeah, I know. I then I don't know. You tell me.

Did you feel like when you were a kid, I mean, you have eldest daughter energy. You are like I said, you are you're a doer. I can you you like to get things done and you kind of quietly motivate people in ways that they don't realize they're being pushed.

Stop it.

Game, recognize game, game, recognize game. But okay, you grew up in the middle of nowhere.

Yeah.

Was it quiet where you were and were you alone a lot?

Okay. And I still live in the middle of nowhere. But it was chaotic, you know? Yeah. Moved all the time, lived in tiny places. A lot of times people lived with us. Mm-hmm. Um, lots of friends over, lots of jam sessions, just lots of chaos all the time, unpredictable environments. But and I really thrive in those. And I still have this like did you have uh what was your childhood like? Well

In many ways, but small house and everyone very kind of on top of each other. Yeah. Um, and we were kind of the house where people would come through. Mm-hmm. So it's nice that way because people would come over, but busy house. Yeah. Yeah. And I felt like, you know I wanted to do a lot of hiding, like a lot of like going into the woods and going like, you know, getting on my bike and just like yeah like balancing quiet time and and busy time. But but a lively house full of a lot of love.

Yeah. I just realized my house, like when we we just was driving around th it my house felt like Saturday Night Live.

No way. People moving giant pieces of furniture.

Everything to the last second, tons of pressure, anything could change, nothing is guaranteed.

Do we have a lot of ADHD?

I mean probably Entirely. I would think I mean I would think it's like everyone would would be would fall into that. Waiting.

Category, yeah.

Yeah. So that explains why I love being there so much because I'm like, why am I just thriving in this environment?

Just crushing like right before the deadline.

Just loving it.

But that helps with performing, I think, because you just you know, you can only have like so much time in the day where I mean some people spend their whole day getting ready for their performance, but you just have to kind of create like a countdown for the performance. You can't stay performance ready all day.

No. And I mean depending on like what your zone is and like what kind of performer you are, too, the the the element of like risk involved gets really, um, can get really heavy. Like I know exactly how to sing. Like so if I'm it just almost doesn't matter how high the stakes are. Like if I'm gonna sing, I'm gonna be okay. But I have this theory that

Well, here's my theory. Every comedian wishes they were a musician and every musician thinks they're a comedian. I can't tell you. How many of the musicians have been like, I'm really funny and I'm like

Well I'm glad they think that we're not going to be able to do that.

We get along.

Yeah.

Yeah. Because w I think we really appreciate what the other does and there's a similarity, but also we f sometimes feel like I like I love I My f some of my favorite memories of SNL is watching musicians. Like I just am in awe of what musicians get to do. But what do you think? Why do you think we kind of love each other?

I think that you know, musicians kind of worship comedians because of the risk that they're taking. Like we know what it means to do our thing and then have that die to no reaction. And then I think comedians just Th just think they're at the top of the pyramid.

So intelligent. Well, and they also are like the cockiness, to your point, you have to be cocky to get out there and bomb, or you're really in trouble.

I mean what do you do? It's like it's like I like I said I can sing no matter how high the stakes are. And if I'm gonna play twelve songs, it's not the twelve songs I'm afraid of. It's the 15 seconds in between the songs of what I have to say in that moment. That's what I'm afraid of.

I'm not a musician because I would have no problem with that. But the singing. Yeah.

So if we like recreated the like if we were a band together, your banter and my singing would be unstoppable.

You know, this is early in the interview, but I don't want to talk to you about your heroes. But can we just talk about the indigo girls for?

Yeah.

Okay. First of all, the fact that one of them was called Amy was already like a dream, Emily and Amy.

You've

Mm heard them like when you were like a teenager, right? Fourteen, fifteen. And you say like they really motivated you to pick up a guitar.

Hundred percent.

What was it about them when you heard them?'Cause I have a theory about what it was for me, like what I why I was and it's the same way I feel about your music. So go ahead, you first.

Well, I heard their voices first in that film uh Philadelphia. They were covering that rodstrew. I can tell by your eyes that you probably been crying forever. And I was like What is that tone? Like they don't sound mm male or female, they don't sound like they're singing to the same people that everyone else is singing to.

There we go.

pulled me out of myself as like a fourteen year old, made me curious about who they were. It wasn't even one of their songs. And that's when um my friend from school, Brianna Greco, br loaned me her um Swampophilia CD. And I was like, what is this? Listen to these harmonies. Like who's singing when? It's staggered. It's out of time. It's amazing, you know, and the drums really w I just uh became so obsessed with their musical complexity and harmonies that I just

I guess sometimes it feels like there's different artists. There's artists that are in their own simulation, their own kind of world and you get to come in and peek, but they're in their worlds. Like

Right. Like and it has a style of dress and a style of speak and like a presence. There's a culture around that obviously.

can visit their world and you're and you get to just peek in. And then there are artists and I consider you one of them. Who are relaxed in the and and honestly confident in their talent, just like the indigo girls, and they say, come in, come over. Like come over here. I love this. And they felt that way. We wanted to sing every one of their songs. I knew their lyrics. I felt like I sounded like them, which everybody who sings the Indigo Girls.

I know exactly what you're talking about. They're so unaffected. They sound like grown ass women and they always have. So like when they open their mouths to sing, their actual voice comes out. They're not trying to please

Do you know me and Dratch played them on S N L?

Yeah, I do remember that.

Me and Rachel Dradge. One scene. It never it never came back. I don't know. And it was the Lance Armstrong, comedians, Lance comedies, Lance Armstrong was the host. And Neil Young was a musical guest. And we had Neil come in to the indigo girls scene uh and we just were like I think we were just pretending we were doing a talk show, probably. Like, you know. And um it was us and like fourteen dogs.

Yeah. That is exactly how Amy lives to this day. She's probably only got eight or nine right now, but

And I feel like um we'll move off the indigo girls, but I just have to say that it feels like as a as an alto, um as a surprising alto. Um 'Cause you would think I don't know, I think my voice I think my voice is lower than it is, but I think it pitches quite high. But Switching, to your point, switching back and forth, like wanting to decide if you want to sing Emily's part or Amy's part. Can we sink? Can we sink? Can we sink? Okay, let's sink closer to flying. Sorry, let me get my

Oh we could not only could we do we could we do closer to fine, we could do a deep cut, we could do anything you want.

Okay, here we go. I'll try to do Amy's part. Okay. From I went to the doctor. Here we go.

Do what key what key are we in?

I don't know!

And to the

The doctor. I went to the mountains. I should be lower. Yes.

So I think your your I went that's you. I went to the doctor.

Okay.

Yep. Two, three, four. Oh Uh Just a little bit. A little bit.

Yeah, just the same joke.

Yeah.

Fucking hell.

You were you're right there though. You're in the zone.

Let's go again. Look at how good you are, Brandy making me feel so good.

If I had a guitar we would do nothing else but cover and go girls for the next

I'm totally sweating. Yeah. I'm so sweating. That was so exciting. Who what but who was who was the first person that told you you had a good voice?

No one's ever asked me that before. I think it was my grandma Dolores. Or or my mom. Mm-hmm. And then definitely me. I really felt like I had a good voice. As like seven years old.

Fucking great. What?

But I didn't. When I listen back to it now, I'm like, what is that?

Oh it's seven.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, but I actually got on stage for the first time as like an eight year old. I got in like a community theater show. Called the North West Grand Olapry, where we reenacted the Grand Olapry.

So cute.

And you'd go on Wednesday night and you'd teach the Opry Band your song and then they'd get you out on Friday and Saturday and I was like the only kid and and uh I did Tennessee Flat Top Box by Roseanne Cash and I just remember like the very first time I did that. I walked out on stage, and I wasn't nervous. I had glasses on, and I can remember the lights in my glasses and seeing the kind of

Wow. And so the audience told you that you could sing. Like in that moment, the audience was like, Yes, we accept you here. You're great. And you knew it. So great.

And the whole thing. They would come up to you at the end of the show and you'd sign their program and you'd sign your little autograph. And I just remember thinking, Yeah, no, this is it. This is my job. 哇

That's awesome. I I mean that's a that's a good example too of like feeling calm in stressful situations. I tend to get uh well like you, I'm I'm not so nervous when I'm doing something. Sometimes after it's done I have like this discharge of nerves. Does that happen to you?

I was reading an ar a uh an article in The Guardian that is it was such a smart article and it made me feel so like stupid but kind of proud to be stupid where it basically says that like that what you're talking about is totally necessary in terms of performers. These like it's such a unnatural thing to have uh your your psychosympathetic nervous system to do what we do. Mm-hmm. That you have to lack an element of contextual intelligence to do it. Baby.

I like it.

I lack it. And they they liken it to like people that can do penalty kicks and like free throws. It's like we have this thing where we don't think anything could go wrong.

Totally and I'm just and I kinda dissociate in a way of like, whatever, babe, what's the worst that can happen I guess?

Exactly. Yeah. And then if something does go wrong, so if you do miss the free throw or you do miss the penalty, which you do all the time, you don't think, well, of course I did. Mo chances are I would. It's a tiny ball, tiny net, or You just go, that was weird. That'll never happen again. And it's like that that repetition of stupidity is what gives us our

It's so true. It is I mean, like um uh SNO is a really good training ground for that. Live performance in general is really good because you have a mistake. Do you does this happen to you when there's a tiny mistake? Not a terrible, like you don't want something bad, but when there's a tiny mistake, do you get a little energized?

Yeah. Because you're like, I gotta save it. Yeah. I can do one, I can't do two.

Yeah, and it's a little bit exciting.

Yeah,'cause two mistakes, no. But one is like kinda good.

you know, I don't know, like a mic went out or someone didn't come and meet get the ki like and you just had a moment of like pure excitement and that like the tingle of that.

Yeah, but it happens so often. There isn't like a notable one. There's this guy I know that does guitar solo, like this like guitar solo master. He's a dude that like I've toured with. Just because if I can have this happen twice in a show, it's like takes the show over the top. So this dude and he will never admit this, but like he'll start out his guitar solo with like a couple of like maybe stock licks or just like a couple of notes that are like, Oh, those are tasteful.

It's so true. And you're absolutely right. The way you take in the mistake, like how

I've always felt this about the way you perform and seeing you like the way you talk about yourself and your music and your art and the way you look at like at the business of it all. It's supposed to be fun. And if you're relaxed, we're

Relaxed. Yeah.

If you're having a good time, we're gonna having a good time. Yeah. It's like if the bride has a good time at the wedding, it's a fun wedding. Like, period, the end. But it's a hard lesson to learn, which is try to rel I mean, telling people to relax is really hard. Yeah. How do you relax when you're about to perform? How do you like, how do you just you just it just comes natural and always has?

Well you used to drink a little bit.

Sure.

And if you

Sure, that works.

Drink a little bit and then you stop drinking a little bit before you go on stage, then it's like starting over from never having drank a little bit. So that sucks.

Yeah, I don't drink anymore. It's like I can't I can't handle it. I mean. Like it just I just get too drunk too fast. I d I have no tolerance.

Like I'm like a camel. Yeah. Um no, I know what you mean.

Like it like uh just a little bit and suddenly you're like, Oh, I am not on my game. Yeah.

Sharp. Right. And then it's like the spiral afterwards. That's the thing I can't deal with. Oh no. And then like pretend the spiral just happened in front of like, you know, a few thousand people. Oh yeah. And then like whatever you say, like you have to like stand by that the next day. So that's not

We're back to the few minutes before between the songs.

Back to the few minutes between the song where you decide to get like overtly political in like an iron unironic way or or you just you make the joke and you know, you were in the pick of destiny.

Yeah, tenacious steel.

Yeah. I'm not gonna tell the story again. I just told the story on Stern it'll

Oh you already tell I don't want any stern I don't want any sloppy stern second.

Stern seconds, but you were in the film.

You gotta tell Ster when you I I love Howard, but you when you're when you're on Stern, you gotta give Stern a good story. Like you gotta bring some meat.

To I'm gonna tell you the story and you can uh sort it out if you want to, but I just think that you would appreciate it this because we are on the subject of drinking and then getting on stage in front of people. I thought everyone had seen the pick of destiny. And I mean I don't mean to be offensive, but like not everyone has seen the pick of destiny.

For people who should people just is Jack Black and Kyle Gass's Tenacious D. Yes. So Jack Black uh is in a band uh uh called Tenacious D, which made a movie called The Pick of Destiny, which is a real cult class.

classic but it was my favorite movie and I had memorized every line in these guys because this was like how I gr you know I was in bands like this. They have to win the Battle of Bands'cause they have to pay their rent, but they're never gonna win the Battle of Bands without the pick of destiny, which is like a a piece of the devil's horn or toenail or something. Sure.

Yeah, thanks for your cock push-ups.

It should be hard for sure. And so. My audience didn't see the pick of destiny, but I believed everyone had seen the pick of destiny.

Right.

Las Vegas and I was on stage and I was having a few drinks and I decided to jump off the drum riser. And my o Knees the knees just didn't hold. They just buckled. And so I kind of like went on my knees and I kind of styled it and I did like the the rock back on the knees thing. And after the song I stood up.

This is a good this is a good story for Star.

And that's

Ha ha ha!

That didn't go over. Nobody knew. Nobody knew why Brandy was telling uh you know, a couple thousand middle aged lesbians that she was gonna do a call.

Do you have a

I don't drink anymore.

Are you done drinking?

I'm not done dr I'm done drinking and working.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Also I just think it gets harder as we get older. I just think it's like everything is harder and and and everything is better. Yeah. Like it's bet what's good about getting older?

Well, I mean travel with this migraine medication in my pocket at all times.

But not a sponsor.

No, it's unsponsored, but that's just there. Yeah. Okay, so I can't really drink. Um

Can we talk about these packages? I'm not gonna how how do you get into it?

You rip it apart with your teeth because you're desperate.

Well, that's because you have your own team. Not everybody has their own teeth. So what were you asking how I said to get over?

Yes, getting older.

Ha ha ha.

Every year I get older I love being older more than I loved being younger.

Yeah, me too.

Just love it. I like everything. I like the way that my reverence has grown and sense of humor has changed. I choose myself in more situations. I like the way my face looks. I like, you know, I like it.

Yeah, me too. I mean, I don't think enough people talk about it. They just don't talk about like I mean, fifties have I'm fifty four, the fifties have been my favorite decade. Oh, by far. Oh, by far. My fiftieth birthday was so fun. I mean, I know there's a lot that comes along with it and especially for people who don't feel like they're in the place they should be, like that feels really

Yeah.

I really we really and I love young people too.

Yeah, me too. I love I love young people and I'm always like, Oh, enjoy that space, be there, you know. And I have kids too and I'm like, Oh my god, be a kid, be a kid. Yeah. But if I'm really honest, that wasn't my favorite. Even if, you know, w I walked in front of a bus tomorrow and I got to like my life flash before my eyes, I think I'd probably see the last five years.

Yeah, very cool. Yeah.

That's a really good question and it's a sacred feeling. It's a really sacred feeling because Like and I guess also the older I get and the more young people do come up to me and say things to me that I remember saying to my heroes, it like I'm a I'm that kind of fan, like I'm a wait outside your tour bus kind of fan. So like

Yeah. And it's and it's also an indication that you're still in touch with that part of yourself. Like you you don't feel like above it or beyond it or over it. Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

It's really cool.

Cool. Yeah. And staying in touch with that part of myself. keeps me honest in my responsibility within my job to to other people. That like my music and and, you know, buy that concert ticket and get the babysitter and and you know, get dressed up and go out for the night like I'm really gonna show up for that gig because I just understand.

What's Elton like? I've never met him and he seems incredible. Like also he's always discovering new artists.

Yeah, always.

Like he's really into new music all the time.

You've never met him? No. See, that's the other thing is most people have met Elton because he's so social and he's just so like you will meet him.

Mm-hmm. Like a real extrovert.

Absolutely love him, total extrovert, but like one of those people that's re Uh maybe m the most um iconic status that you can possibly um reach with absolutely no trace of narcissism. Whoa. I know. Like he's competitive and he's intense and he knows he's

You have a competitor person.

Oh God, I know, so do I.

I mean, I think that's a good thing.

But he will ask you questions and listen to your answers and be just genuinely intrigued like by you, you know. And that's why he's discovering all these y younger artists. Yeah. He's just an exceptional man. Yeah. Once in a once in a millennium, man.

And you and you've worked with Dolly who just

That's another one.

What is it like to sing next to Dolly? What does that feel like?

It's... She's impeccable. She does not miss. So the standard is like so high. Like Dolly is the boss. And w so when I show up for Dolly, like I show up on time, buttoned all the way up to the top button, and I don't miss. I know everything I'm supposed to do. And she doesn't like Ask you to meet that standard, but it's there. Like Dolly has high expectations, and sh yeah, she's just amaz amazing.

The work you've done recently with Joni by Joni's side is just so cool. It felt like you were you were the professional and the fan at the same time.

Such a nice thing to say. Oh, that's such a nice thing to say. A nice uh way I felt like a tudned a lot of the time because that music was so Wildly complex and inaccessible to me at first. Even though I was a fan of it, I had never had to get inside of it. And learn the phrasing and learn, you know, the key changes. The melody uh it's a roller coaster, the melodies are roller coasters. You don't

And it must be so cool to talk to like young teenagers who are discovering her for the first time.

Well they come up to me en masse. That's probably the thing I end up talking about the most and I love it. Like I never grow tired of talking about Joni and the Joni journey. But like younger people and much older people alike. That is the thing everyone comes to me and says, okay, look, I've got the Joni's Mitchell's t lyrics tattooed on my arm, you know? Like really, like Gracie Abrams. Like that's how I met Gracie, you know.

I'm also thinking about that sweet um uh performer um Benicio.

Oh yeah, Vinicio.

Who sang the joke with you many times, which is an what an what an incredible song. And just the way You know, it's not easy to sing with like legends and y young people, like who are kind of just starting out on their journey, like the way you performed with I'm like Chris Farley, I'm like, remember that That's my question. Do you remember when you did it?

I remember Vinicio.

But like that was such a beautiful Too and it really changed like ch how does a song change depending on who you perform it with?

That the well, first of all, the innocence of that with Benecio, I was so impulsive back then. I I like I would just m the school I went to, the public school I went to in the town I l I l I live in. couple of times a year I'll do something for them. I'll just go speak in an assembly or whatever, you know. Actually feels good to like be cool in that school. Now that I'm an adult. Yeah, no, no one was. So I you know, I went there and like Benicio came up and he

Okay, this is a great question'cause I tried to look it up.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

It was it said late show, which could mean forty five different shows. Yeah. It said they had the word late in it, and I thought it was Jimmy Fallon, but then it might have been called. Matt, I should be able to find it. But I cannot find it. And also I'm not great at looking things up.

Well they the in those in these shows, which I love doing, they say you can go you can retake if you need to, but you don't. You're not supposed to. Yeah. So um but Binicio Froze. And he totally froze. And we walked backstage at at the thing, and he was just crying. And I was like, Benny.

It was so triumphant. And that makes so much sense because your joy in the way he was singing with you, like you could feel it in that performance. And it makes a lot of sense that you were like really excited that he was nailing it.

Yeah, and it was twice the victory because he got it together. Like that thing we have to do, we have to pull it together. And just

That's what winners do. Yeah. I mean, not like it's a competition, but well done, Benicio. Can I ask you your relationship to your hair?

Yeah. And that's such a s like interesting and intuitive question. Like no one has ever asked me a question like that before, but and now I'm very conscious of my hairstyle.

I mean I I think w I think hair is political, right? Like and it and it it's in it's interesting our relationship with it and it changes all the time and we're telling s people who we are by through it. Yeah.

Well, somebody asked me recently about coming out about like when I really truly felt like I had like stepped into my authentic self and I just without even thinking about it said when I cut my hair. when I cut my hair. And at that time in my life, yeah, if you saw in the Lilith doc. I had like a little boy like almost buzz cut like haircut. Mm-hmm. And I loved it. It was so freeing. I loved having it off my neck. I loved that my mom hated it. I loved everything about like that haircut. Yeah.

You know, we kind of make jokes in in the world where like someone has the same hairstyle for forty years. Yeah. But what's behind that yeah what's behind that is like a fear of like if I change. Yeah. Will I recognize myself?

Right.

Will I recognize myself? Because so many people wanna you know, they wanna feel younger. They wanna feel like the version of themselves when they were feeling the best about themselves. I know and so much of it is hair and like we make fun of like men with combovers, for example, right? Like we make fun of people who like won't let go, but a like I don't know, it's just there's just a lot of self esteem that comes from um I don't like making any sense here.

You're making like too much sense. Plus, I do feel like for me, if I wanted to grow my hair, I don't think it would grow long past a certain point.

Yeah.

I feel like it would like actually physically just be like no You're getting the ball. I'm just gonna split at the ear. But no, I know what you mean. Like That i that is something that that comes in all the time and then add queerness to that. Mm-hmm. You know, and like the gender issue that you so intuitively pointed out to that. And then it can get like another layer of complication for sure. But I have definitely seen that. when a a s a central core group of

I didn't say it.

I don't think you know how enthused I was to get to do that. I don't think what I did to get home so that I could do that.

Oh brandy thing.

I it wasn't even a thank you thing. It was like it's a thank you from me. I was so excited to get to do that. I love you guys so much. You said famously that like. Your your first of all I love everything you've done, all the movies and everything. Yeah. Stop right now. Pick a destiny definitely. Um, but you you said that y the best SNL cast is the one when you're thirteen.

We had an amazing couple years. I gotta say, when I look at our what who I was on S N L with at the time, it was crazy heavy hitters.

Anna, Maya, you, Tina, Rachel, I mean Will, Horatio. Yes. Were you did you cross over with Chris? Just I don't know. I'm just I all I'm saying is I you can cut this if you want, but I'm just such a fan and to get to do that with you guys.

It's funny that you bring up Christian Chan. Just yesterday my kid was eating mango and he was like, Do you want the mango? And I was like, Do you want the mango? And he was like, What? And I was like, Oh, um there's a character named You you wanted the mango. Uh I'm gonna show it to you. I was like, You have no idea. You haven't met mango yet?

Uh no.

Um and so but touring is its own thing and its own, you know, and and I'm sure you have it down. You've toured a million different ways and you've figured out like how you like to tour. What do you like about touring and what have you adjusted now to make you like it even more? How do you adjust it brandy style? So you know what I mean. Like, oh, well, if I'm gonna be in the city, I'm gonna make sure that I

Well it's changed so much because you've accumulated people. Yeah. And restaurants and places and parks and walks and little, you know, urban rivers to fish in in my case.

Big fish or you have to fish. Yeah.

So I've I've acquired memories in each of these each of these places. They're my place now. And so yeah, I go there and I do all those things. And now that I'm older and I can't sing as uninhibitedly as I used to when I was younger and I used to just blow my voice out all the time. I'm really careful about days off, so I wind up getting a day off usually and

Let's talk about sleep.

Yeah, sleep, men.

Do you like that?

Well we gotta do it.

Yeah.

I do, I do.

What do you do? What's your bedtime routine? Okay. Hi, do you know about the bio mat?

Yeah, you know Alanis Morissette just sent me one and it's life changing

It's changed my first of all, it's impossible to get up off of it. Once you get on, it sucks you in like

Yeah, and you gotta be so careful not to bed rot when you're not sleeping. Like it don't go back to that bed once you get out.

Airphone. For those people that don't know, it's there's many versions of it, but it's basically like a giant heating pad that has crystals in it or whatever. Yeah. Whatever they And it grounds you and it it's incredible.

Yeah. It's incredible. And I love a heating pad. Like I travel with one, you know. Um, but my bedtime routine is yeah, I get on the heating pad and I take a melatonin gummy. Nice. And I talk with my wife and we do the debrief of the day. That's I think so important for I just think that's so I don't know.

Yeah, I love the I love the being able to kind of review like have a review of the day.

Out of your own head and the way that you saw yourself and your own behavior, hear somebody else's take on it. Yeah. If you're developing conspiracy theories about other people or starting to crystallize into like weird political you know b belief systems. Yeah. You learned you went down a rabbit hole or whatever and then you just you have a a a conversation with a human being that knows you at night. Yeah. And it's a real head cleansing experience.

And it's also a time where you can kind of decide like I'm gonna drag some of these things to trash and then some I'm gonna kinda take with me to the next day. Yeah. Like some I'm gonna just kind of talk through and then they're gonna float away. Yeah. And other things I'm gonna remember and keep.

Yeah. And you kind of dream calibrate.

Do you wear an eye shade? Yeah.

Interesting.

Earplugs?

No. I feel claustrophobic when I put in earplugs.

Yeah, same. I can't do earplugs and eye shade I can't really do either. What's your sleep?

Routine.

I try to get so much. I love sleep so much. All I think about is when can I get sleep and like how many hours can I get? And

Y matrimonio.

I that's where I'm I need some help.

Okay, I got some locks.

Really? Tell me.

Okay, so I'm a big mattress person. The first the very first thing I did when I made any money was buy every single person I know a mattress.

Whoa, that's such a baller move.

It was...

Like it

was like when Temper Pedics first came out and and I didn't have that much money, some of'em I financed.

You were like, I'm gonna get this paid someday.

Yes, exactly.

That is awesome.

Awesome. But I c because of the sleep thing, like, you know, but that was like that was when temper Pedic first came out. So I was like a big temper Pedic person. I do not get paid by Temper Pedic. Yes. But I yet but I bought everyone a temperature mattress and lately I've really been into this other mattress called the purple mattress. Hold on. So these two?

I need a new mattress.

Okay. These are the ones.

And the and ne and and a new mattress is one of those like adult things that literally feels impossible. Like you're like, I guess I can never get it like I'm really good at adulting. I get a lot of stuff done. I'm not a procrastinator, but something about a new mattress, I'm like, I guess I'll just never get a mattress. Why? I don't know. I don't. There we go. Okay, what do you like about this map?

Well I mean

Sell me this map.

Okay. Uh the purple mattress? Sure. Okay, so it's anything that feels like this like zero gravity mattress situation where you like, in my mind, I tell myself. If I'm not like pressed up against something hard and my like blood can flow freely throughout my body and my circulation is good, then I'm healing when I'm asleep.

So you like a n you don't like do you like a softness then? You don't like a firm?

Mattress? You know, it's like less blankets, more blankets. It's like a combination of things. But I just think that like Tempur Pedic and Purple, these two mattresses, they provide this kind of zero gravity feeling where if you wake up in the middle of the night, no part of you feels pressed up against something else. Yeah. And also if we ever sleep in the same bed, which I feel like is a possibility.

Don't touch the biggest.

Be touched by other people when I was sleeping.

Hundred. No touch. No absolutely no touching. Well I'm me also I'm a certain age where like I have to find cool stuff. spots a lot. Yeah. Still like th it's very hot. So and I don't like ta I don't like touching. And also I've said this many times before on the podcast and I'm sorry I'm saying it, but I wear a C PAP machine.

Oh.

So Um and because I have sleep apnea

We are so hot when we go to bed.

So is that gonna I think that's gonna run

I masked no earplugs. Special match biomatch. Yeah.

That's that's like I mean it's true love, actually. It's whoever whoever can get past that is it's really true love. Yeah. But what's in your rider? Do you have a rider?

Yeah, I do.

Anything fun?

No, it's so boring. Like I'm just I'm really

That means you're a normal person.

Very boring to you.

Like no, uh people that are have weird riders feel honestly, it feels like it's a stressful way to get people to run around for them.

It is. Because you know, my best friend, her job was writers for a while. And that's kind of when I was like, no, my writer is like normal. It's like what

Kind of stuff you've done there.

I I need an avocado. Perfect. I need lemons. Yep. I need uh just some like LaCroix.

Yeah.

And it's gotta be cold. And then um like tuna salad. Every show, every ever I always have to have tuna salad and bananas. And I don't like any of those things.

But I have to have'em.

Yeah.

Okay, well, the rider question brings me to we do this thing on the show where we have people who know our guests. Um, zoom with me before I talk to our guests to speak well behind their back and also to give me a question. So we talked to Marin Morris today.

Oh god, I love merit.

I know. I do too. And I I I mean The high women were s that is such an incredi such a great example of you and all of those women, of course, but like women working together in real time to make really cool stuff and everyone saying yes right away and Brandy being the one that's like, let's do it. I'm gonna make it happen. Here are the dates. Let's go. And then making this great record and performing with Dolly. Like it just feels like that whole experience was so awesome, was it?

It was. It was not uncomplicated. Yeah. But it was awesome. Yeah. And just like something I am so proud we did. And actually it's something I think we should do again. Yeah. Because it's like that combination of women was really interesting and wild and I want I want that back in a way. Especially as my well, as my girls are getting older. I just they were so little when I did it. And now, you know, that they are where they are. I just want us I want them to watch us do it.

Yeah.

I think they'd really learn from it. And then our our kids, you know, like we did that Maren d w didn't have

And, you know, it's like now they're all so big. Mercy's big and Sammy Joe's big and my kids are getting big and I just having a a girl on the on the precipice of being a teenager, I think it would be a really neat thing to show them.

Well, that's exactly what Marion's question was. Is she was basically saying like you have two daughters, you're watching your girls get older, they're coming to your shows. Like like, you know, her question was like you know, any advice, you know,'cause, you know, Marin's got a little boy and just and and what we were talking about was even extrapolating from that is just this idea of like a working mother, like how do we figure out how to

다음 영상에서 만나요.

And especially for young girls. So when they come and watch you, do they Um, what do you think about when they're when they're around you when you're on tour? I know you've brought them, of course, many times on tour. Like what are you thinking about now with your daughters and and and what you want them to see? And what do they do they like watching you perform?

The girls like watching me perform. They're both really into sports, which is mystifying to me because I never You know, but like they were like watching the World Series and they were crying when the Mariners got defeated and now they won't ever even go to Toronto because they're so mad at the Blue Jays and Like I have no feelings about sports whatsoever. But I'll take them to a game and then I'll watch them watch that and I'm like you know, the concerts don't really register in the same

Well it's just like how do you how do you um Uh rebel when your mom's a rock star as you become a jock.

I hope this is not a sign of things to come. They they seem more like and I'm this is occurring to me as I'm saying it. They seem more excited by and interested in the way I interact with fans as a person uh as a public person than how actually how I do music. They're more interested in the fact that I'm a little bit famous.

They probably are just figuring that out that oh, my mom's art, the her job. speaking to that. I bet you they're just figuring that out for the first time.

They are.

They like it. Very cool.

Yeah, and that's they seem to be just energized about about those kinds of things. And it gets it does sort of translate to their behavior in sports and stuff. I took'em to like a Seattle Rain a soccer game and they were just

That's a chant, Mom. They're like, we're we're it's good. But that's so interesting though, because I feel like you have a you have a You're you are, you know, in positively competitive, and you have a a player's attitude toward your work.

I'm driven, but I'm not competitive. Crazy. No, it's actually annoy it's annoying, I think.

Interesting.

And I think it puts me a little bit on the outs with my some of my friends even like my relationship with Elton, he's constantly annoyed by my lack of it. But if I'm up for an award and somebody else beats me, I mean I'm deflated for like three and a half seconds until they get up and do their speech and then I'm like fighting back tears.

Yeah. But but but you what you're you're saying you just have a healthy relationship to competition.

Maybe.

Because Well, awards are crazy. And they're crazy. Of course. And and you go there and it's like i if you actually you know, what is winning? Well, winning is just being at the show. And same with, you know, watching your like anyone who like yells on the sideline is like

Where do I go? I go to a few uh core movies. Like I'll go to a few f core comedy movies. Um and without sounding too retro or old school, I mean I love Tommy Boy.

Oh my god.

I love Tommy Boy.

Right here.

Everything tenacious D. I I I loved sisters. I felt That was a really important one for a lot of reasons. And then um SNL. I I like never miss SNL. I love SNL and I've got my favorite old episodes and my favorite.

One of your favorite SNL sketches. Yeah.

Oh my god, they've just Many good ones. One that I come back to a lot is the um Lyseminelli turns on a lamp.

Kristen Wigg, a total genius.

So really good money.

I mean let's watch that for a second. I mean, and by the way, hilarious physical comedy, not great for podcasts, but um uh okay, the the title says Liza Minelli Tries to Turn Off a Lamp.

That's what it is, yeah.

I mean wig is So friggin' funny. I know. And okay, let's watch this.

So a huge Tracy Morgan fan.

Tracy Morien.

Sugar, babe.

We've got uh

And the curtain goes up in fifteen minutes. We got a scooter.

Like a ball on the end of a chain, remember that?

Brandy!

He's dying. Sério! A chocolate shrão!

I love it.

When she was on TV as a young kid, I was like, who who is that? Yeah. Liza, you're very talented. Stick with it, Liza. You picked the right job. And Brandy, so did you. You picked our you're just the best singer. Congrats on your voice, on this record, on all the things that

You're the best. You are the funny. The most interesting person. I really feel I hope this is

The big game.

Beginning of a long friendship. Seriously.

I know you have a lot of people live in your house. You have like a lot of people in your house.

Yeah.

One or two more you might not even notice. No.

And if you need a trim carpenter, if you're afraid to work with wood. Strengthen your resolve.

I I feel like that's this time around I'm probably not gonna do that.

Yeah.

But that's okay, God is fair, you know. Ha ha

Yeah.

Thank you so much, Radine. This is so fun. I really

It was everything I hoped it would be.

Thank you so much, Brandy. You are incredible. And um it was so, so fun hanging with you. And um yeah, you know, we talked about so many good things. Uh one thing that we spoke about, which I just wanted to kind of correct or um plunge deeper into in the polar plunge was the performance that her and Benicio Bryant did together for the incredible song, The Joke.