Ep. 199 The return of the Grow Along | #GoodGrowing

Welcome to the Good Growing Podcast. I am Chris Enroth, horticulture educator with University of Illinois Extension, coming at you from Maccomb, Illinois, and we have got a great show for you today. It is announcement time. Drum roll, please. We're gonna be talking about the Good Growing Grow along part two strikes again back.

Hello, Chris. Should it be a a grow along strikes back.

Yes. That that has a little bit of a negative, connotation in my head because when the Empire struck back, it didn't go so well for Luke Skywalker. But, you know, he survived. He did lose a hand, but, well, I I I don't wanna lose any body parts this year, Ken.

Fair enough.

Okay. And, of course, we are not doing this without horticulture educator, Emily Swihart up in Milan, Illinois. Emily, welcome back to the show.

Hi, guys. I'm very excited to have the return of Good Growing.

There you go. The yes. The the grow along. The returns. The grow along.

Return of the grow along.

Yes. Oh, there we go. See, that movie ended much better. Yes. Better. Yep. Mhmm. Everything got all tied up nicely in the very end, and, we don't talk about, how those movies were changed in the late nineties, to not include the best Ewok music I've ever heard. But, anyway, I digress. Don't talk to me about Star Wars because this will become a Star Wars podcast.

The, Good Growing after dark.

Yes. At a galaxy far, far away. Okay. Well, I guess instead of talking about science fiction, we should talk about plants. So, what we are going to do for the show today is, one, we are going to if you're a new listener, if you have not participated with the Grow Along in the past, we'll talk about what that is.

I'd love to, Chris. So the Grow Along, the original, started last year. We wanted to, engage our wonderful viewers and leaders of Good Growing, sweet about with growing plants. Right? Like, this we're all united around this passion for plants. And we have talked many times about how we like to grow unique things. We have engaged with master gardeners and community members, who are adventuresome growers as well. And so we thought, why don't we do this together? So the grow along was born. Right?

Yeah. So think things have changed. I guess, Ken, what last year, we're, like, direct so only. But, Ken, how have we changed things this year now for our grow along?

Yep. So we still have, quite a few direct so, but we did include some, some things that you will need to start indoors. That just kind of expands the the potential plants, we could have. So, there will be some obviously, you don't have to pick them, but if you have the capability of starting seeds indoors, there will be some that will that will require that. We also shied away from the large seeded items because those are expensive to ship.

Well, but not too small. Right? We had a few problems with some of the the mizuna from last year too with teeny tiny little seeds. So I don't think we have anything that's, like, microscopic this year either. We're finding that Goldilocks zone.

Yes. So I so I think we have we we have more opportunities for folks to to experiment with with maybe doing a little bit of seed starting on your own. So if you haven't done seed starting, you want a couple unique things to try with, this this could be a way to do that. And so we we can we even have a seed starting podcast episode out there. We could probably even link to those, or we can make a whole new one this year.

But Oh,

oh, mhmm.

If we did somehow somehow get approval to go to Hawaii, that could be an interesting podcast location.

Yes. If anybody has any tours of the Hawaiian Islands, that you could use a group of three roving horticulturists, to talk about, that would be great. Yeah. Take any of that.

So we'll do registration like we did last year. I want you to just talk about that before we get distracted by all the plants. So we'll do a registration because we need to know where to ship the seeds to. And so folks can, go to the link that's in the show notes. We'll have registration open until March 7.

I would donate.

You wouldn't?

Now that's that's reverse psychology I'm using right there.

It is not I it is not required. I really wanna emphasize that. Like, it is not required. But we do have generous, you know, community members too. And so just providing the option, appreciate what anybody, wants to do, whether whether donate or just participate and provide feedback.

Yep. I would agree. And there was several people make comments about wanting more, growing information on them. So when we send out the seeds, we will include more information on how to grow stuff as well. So

But but we are learning right along with you. Just keep in mind with that.

Yep. Okay. With that, should we talk about what we're gonna be trying to grow this year? And then I guess, ultimately, some of them will be taste testing again. I think that's still the plan. I hope it is. Because one of these were going specifically because of the flavor. Get an iron. Do you wanna start with that one? Should we start with the one that we're just

Yes. Dreading.

Dreading? Dreading. Yeah. Okay. Can you you introduce it?

So the first one we have is papalo. And this is one description I saw is, tastes like cilantro, but with a more pronounced soapy taste.

Yes.

So I don't know.

I'm the only one in this group that enjoys cilantro.

To me, that that sounds like I don't know why you'd wanna grow that. I just might as well just chew on a chew on a bar of soap, but that's okay.

Yeah. I think it's

a good one. Says cilantro with arugula and rue. I don't know what rue tastes like, but Mm-mm. It's not not a fan of cilantro. So but I'll Yeah. I will grow it for the good of the cause.

I wanna compare even though I don't like cilantro at all. I I want to get some cilantro. We'll grow some, not as part of the grow along. Just have it as part of our, our public gardens. And I'm gonna try a little bit of that, and I will try this, and see if either tastes more strongly bad.

Wow. So I remember an article also where they said that the the preference for cilantro can also be a learned behavior or a learned preference, I guess. You can train your tongue or your olfactory to to to like it. Ken says no. Yeah. Well Maybe it has to happen

when you're younger than we are.

Maybe. I will say I got a lot of bars of soap stuck in my mouth as a child. So Oh. I had older sisters that told me to say things that I really shouldn't say. So and they thought it was funny.

Be blaming it on them.

Oh, one of those truth. They they admit it. They admit it.

Okay. Okay.

They know what to do with their little brother. Yes. So okay. I'm excited. Yay.

So so I think with this, this is, more heat tolerant than cilantro. Silantro is more of a cool season. So, you know, if you do really like cilantro, this may be a you got your cilantro in the spring, and then this can take over, into the summer when that cilantro starts, declining and flowering and and stuff. So

Yeah. It won't bolt when the temperatures get get warmer in the summer months. And so

And you will not confuse this leaf for a parsley leaf. It does not look like parsley. It's a more wider, rounder, shaped leaf. So you're if you're planting parsley also in the garden, don't worry. These are distinctly different.

Yeah. They're not even in the same family. That's why I was curious as to why, you know, cilantro and then this this plant also have that that soapy flavor. I thought maybe they're, you know, in the same family and they're not. And so, very distinct, different looking, plants. So

Yeah. And from I I haven't found a really good description of the size. It kinda varies, but several places list you getting several feet tall. So that may be something to consider when you're placing this is the height, and and you can pinch it back and stuff to make it a little more bushy. But I have seen some places say three feet tall, some places say five feet tall. So Mhmm. And if it flowers, it has seeds, like dandelion type seeds. So

Yes.

It may potentially reseed as well. Yep. Yep.

And It's a direct sale. Yes. Plant as well. One of ours.

And if you're furiously writing notes right now, afraid that you might miss something, don't worry on the registration. We'll have these, growing requirements for it. So sun, shade, you know, party, not party, all stuff like that, spacing. So that information will be on the registration.

Okay. What's next?

I think this next one is something Ken has grown last year. Ken, what are we looking at here when it comes to, something a little bit more holiday, themed, which I know that's that's your speed is the holiday time frame.

Yeah. So this is a a sweet pepper called Christmas tree. So this is, it is an edible pepper, but it's very ornamental as well. So this is a kind of a I guess you saw it called dwarf pepper. It gets twelve, eighteen inches tall. And when the peppers grow, pop up a picture. The peppers grow upright. It's got a very nice ornamental look. When they first start developing, they're kind of a a creamy white color. They'll go into yellow.

I like the idea of a really sweet pepper. I whole family are we're very excited about this one because we really like that, sweet pepper flavor. And it is really pretty. I think it's I might honestly, we've downsized our garden, and so I have been thinking about putting some of these, unique to us plants in our ornamental landscape. This might be one of them. We'll see.

Yep. I think that's what fit in well. We've done one more edible landscaping.

Mhmm. Yeah.

They What about in a container?

Yeah. I think it would be fine. We grew ours in the ground, but I think, yeah, it's it's not a terribly big plant. So as long as you've I mean, I wouldn't put in a really small pot. But if you get a a decent sized pot, it should be fine in there.

I cut you off, Chris. What were you gonna say? Sorry. Oh, it

wasn't important. Off it just fluttered off like a yeah. Like a wisp of cloud. Yeah. No worries.

This does need to be started early. This would not be a direct sow. This is fifty five days to maturity, but that is, of course, after you plant them out, after the risk of frost has passed. And so you would start your peppers indoors. I think usually the package says four to six weeks, but I like to make them a little more robust. I usually start them about six to eight weeks. I'm gonna care for them a little longer. How about you guys?

Depends on when I get my act together. Usually, yeah, that usually, you do more than six to eight week. Yeah. But because this is a little quicker turnaround, if you I think if you did four, six weeks, you'd be fine still.

I okay. The I thought of it. So the thing that I like about this is that you have a sweet ornamental pepper. Whereas the ornamental peppers that are sold as, like, annuals, bedding plants, those I think they're spicy. They might be sweet.

Yeah. I don't I do not like spice. Like, I I'm a true Midwesterner. Like, black pepper is spicy. Right? And so, I like these sweet peppers, so I've never tried. Mhmm. I don't dare to try the ornamental peppers, but I I think you're right. I think, generally, they are labeled as being on the more spicy side. And the upright ones, generally. At least I that's what I have in my brain. Like, to me, that says spicy, but I like that this is. Alright. Can't wait. That'll be fun.

Yeah. I say I haven't found anything on how big it gets. But since it's a cucurbit, I would assume you're gonna need. Need some space unless you're gonna travel. So I think the fruit get about two pounds. So, yeah, depending on how strong those vines are, you may or may not need to support those fruit when they're developing, if you do it just.

It also, notes that it produces a lot. And so I really find that appealing when I'm growing. Some of the, melons and squash that we grow don't overly produce, you know, for as much space as they take up in a garden. I really like to make sure that they're gonna produce well, both to, you know, feed the family, but then also to donate. That's a, kind of a pillar of extension as we like to help support local food, banks and people in need.

The revenge of the lemon cucumber. So it's back again with the return.

I think I advocated for that one too. Okay. We're Yes. I I'm on brand.

Hey. I love melons. I loved cucumbers last year too, and, well, you know, we'll see what happens

with my dog. You didn't. Mhmm.

Yeah.

This is what I believe also, and I'm having a hard time remembering where I saw it when I was reading about it. And I think it also said that, it was a smaller, seed, like, seed heart. Like, it just it didn't have so many seeds in the middle. It was more, edible fruit than you know, sometimes you cut into melons or whatever, and it's just like all seeds, and you're like, well, this was, you know, disappointing. I think this one has has supposedly has more flesh that you can eat versus the seeds.

see. Only one way to find out.

Yeah. I like that attitude, Ken. I like it. Alright. What's up next?

I think the next one on the list is black creme tomato. I think it was another one of you. That was another one of your choices, wasn't it?

Wasn't it the description of the flavor that you seem to like? Is that right, Emily? It's described as smoky?

Yes. Yes. I don't know what that is gonna be like when, you know, it can fruition, but, yes, it was described as having a good smoky flavor. Tomatoes have a wide range of flavors, and I really enjoy trying them all. I didn't always like tomatoes, but I have really grown to love them. They're one of my favorite things to grow and to eat out of the garden. And so, I yeah. The smokey flavor. I don't know what that means in terms of tomato. So we're gonna give it a shot.

A little anthocyanins.

Yeah. Yep. So this one, we would also have to, start indoors, start early, and grow out. So, we'll get those seeds, shipped out to people. Start them, you know, right alongside those peppers.

Yeah.

I like yeah. I like indeterminate tomatoes too, though, because they do produce throughout the year. It's not just one harvest. That works for some folks, but this one will continue to produce throughout the year. And so, you'll probably if it's a good year for tomatoes and we have success with these, we'll all be tired of them by the end of the season.

This doesn't taste like smoke

at all.

What if

I look at the campfire when I'm eating my tomatoes?

That's what I feel about coffee too. It's like, this does taste like like burned wood. I don't want it. Correct.

Correct. Jet fuel or nothing. Okay. Anything do you guys have anything to add about the tomato? You got any thoughts? No?

No. I'd say save the seed for this, and then, you know, you can plant a lot of these. You can save seed of a lot of these crops that we're talking about this year and and use them year after year.

Yep. Yeah. So probably, you know, assuming gets you in trouble. I think assume probably most people have grown tomatoes before, so I never familiar with what they're gonna get themselves into.

So by my count, that wraps up our edible Yeah. Portion there.

Quasi edible.

I know. I know. It's They're

everything's edible as Ken would say.

Oh, dear. Everything's edible once. Yes.

But so these the vegetables, the fruits, things that will be growing here, they are, yes, definitely edible. They are also good looking. I think we've all we've picked as usual. A lot of the criteria is these have to be aesthetically pleasing vegetable crops. The next ones in our list here are also sometimes edible.

Yep. I take back what I said because I forgot about the toothache plant. Yeah. We'll have a few actual small seeds, and this mint would be one of them. That, I'm excited to do this because I some of the things that I'm growing too, I guess, the criteria is so I can give my kids different experiences.

That's right. Check those salivary glands, make sure they work.

Yeah. Yep. And this is one where I think we've kinda figured it needs a lot more moisture, at least for me than I was giving it, which is why I think my plants struggled last year at times. So, make sure you keep up with watering, especially if you have it in a pot. Likes more moist conditions.

Now would this one benefit from a heat mat? Because I know, like, peppers and tomatoes, all those also benefit from heat mats. Do you start your seeds with heat mats, Ken, or are they just in the house on their own?

They're just in the house on their own.

Okay.

Yeah. I don't use it. But there, I think I'm not even sure we have a heat mat at home to use. But it's I mean, our seeds are in our dining room, so it's Mhmm. Relatively warm. We're not in the basement or anything.

So I'm in the basement, so I'll, usually, I try to add a little bit of bottom heat when I got some of my summer veggies seeds going. Only for seeds sprouting. Once they sprout, take that heat mat off of there.

So the light

will help. Oh, go ahead.

Yeah. Ideal temperature is 70 degrees, and there is surface. So so they need I need that light to germinate.

Mhmm. Alright. Tooth eggplant.

Pretty. You can eat it. Another pretty you can eat is, I think you grew this one last year. Right, Emily? The dark purple opal basil.

We did. Yes. We grew this with some of our master gardeners, and, I'm excited to share it with everybody because it's beautiful. It has this really dark foliage. So that is often, marketed as something for, cut flower bouquets, and it certainly, adds just, like, fragrance.

Did you all direct seed this or start it indoors?

So that's funny you asked because I'm trying to remember. I think we did. I don't think we started this. Typically, I do start my basil early, and I I think we direct seeded it, into our raised beds. And it's just the where they are at is warm anyways. It's kind of an alleyway, and it just is a really warm, sight and basil does like, like, that warmth. And so, I think that really helped support the growth of it. I should have looked back in my notes. I apologize.

I think people usually do both. I just Mhmm. Usually start mine indoors just to get a jump. But

Yeah.

I think Basil is one you can you can get away with starting or direct seating Yep. If you don't have the the capability to start indoors.

I have direct seeded at home. I know that. I can't remember what we did last year, though, for the for our growing beds. So, yeah, maybe we'll do both. Maybe we'll we could divide and conquer.

Yeah. On to the next one? Yeah. So next one we've got is a Celosia. I think, Chris, this was your selection, wasn't it?

It was purely for the name. I mean, it's pretty too. Actually, I think we had talked about this as we're selecting these plants. Like, if we were designing a bouquet, this would it would blend really well with the dark purple local basil because this is also like a deep maroon burgundy colored, leafed celosia. It has like a has it's a very kind of dark red wine color to the leaves, and then it has these flower spikes on it that are bright rosy red color.

So celosia is, a really interesting, species. So the one that we you chose, Chris, is, like, a wheat variety. The it's more like a it could also be like a plume. Although, generally, when plume is identified as the bloom type, it's a little bit bigger. These are a little more, the blooms are a little more petite, than what I generally think of as the bloom.

And, Yes.

I'm I'm here for that. I mean, it's mega punk. She's gotta have a little attitude. So

That's right. I think the this will also holds up even dried. And so Yes. You can use this in a, like, a a really neat late summer bouquet or a fall bouquet. You know, there's a lot of interesting things that you can do, with with the foliage and the flower plumes on this one.

Yes. And it is recommended that you start celosia indoors, and so about six weeks you know, again, around that the same time we're planting the tomatoes and the, possible basil and the, peppers. You would wanna plant this, start this inside as well. It's a warm season crop. And so

Yeah. You you can't start it outdoors, but and that's usually two weeks after your last frost. I think I start for this month's twelve to fourteen weeks to bloom. So keep that in mind if you're gonna put it direct seed.

Mhmm. Yep. And then I guess as well, thank you. And as people are choosing these plants from our registration pages, know you don't have to do all of them. And maybe you do need to select based upon, do you have the, space necessary to start seed indoors, or, you know, are you only gonna be able to sow outside direct seed? Just be mindful of that as you you pick these plants out. So we want you to be successful.

Alright. Can we talk about a plant that I think we could pair with these this Moody bouquet?

Let's do it.

About our cosmos. So, we chose a cosmos. Another one that is probably familiar to many people listening or watching, is kind of a heritage plant. Cosmos have been around for a very long time, very popular. The one we chose, though, is, called seashells mix.

Yeah. The the petals remind me a little bit of, like, a think of, like, a a foxglove flower. It's just this long tubular. Yeah. But this is just the petals all around. So

That's a good description.

Excited to see what they look like in person.

Yeah.

With cosmos too, you can start them early. I usually don't. You can direct sow after the last, frost. They grow pretty quickly, establish pretty quickly, pretty easy to grow. So, if you don't want to do any indoors, starting seeds indoors or you just run out of room, in your space, this could be one.

I think I'm

oh, good.

Go ahead. Oh, I would say they are larger, though. They get pretty big.

Mhmm.

And so just be aware of that. Five foot or so.

Yes. To that point, you know, to both of your points, actually, right there, pollinators and getting a little bit larger. I think I know where I'm gonna put this in my kind of my pollinator patch where I have several native pale ants that sort of grow and intermingle and intertwine, because being a cosmos bipinatus, bipinatus usually has a much more kind of delicate fine textured, foliage and stems. And so kinda thinking maybe a little bit of extra support by having some plants around it so that it doesn't get flattened by the wind or, my dogs, might probably help this plant out a a little bit because I I've always really loved, like, cosmos biponatus because of that fine texture. And it it reminds me, a a lot of, like, the tickseed coreopsis, like, the very fine textured leaves.

Well, I think you'll like seashells. Mhmm. Alright. What else do we have?

We got

Oh.

One more. Zinnia.

Yes. Last but certainly not least.

So this one is old Mexico. I don't remember. Just a joint decision. I don't remember if anybody

Thanks. I have no memory of selecting this, but I'm here for it.

I I we we had the zinnia page open. We are going back and forth. We had one zinnia species selected, but then we all kinda looked at old Mexico and said, no. I really like that one. That's Mhmm. That's a good one.

Yes. This one so the description of the flowers is a burnished copper tipped with a gold. It's kinda got this reddish orangeish center, with yellow tips on the petals there. Nice kinda open flower. I mean, to me, it would I mean, if you're gonna compare it to another plant, like blanket flower, looks similar to Yeah. The blanket flower.

Mhmm.

And, all American selection winner in 1962. So it's been around for a while. No. It's a good

Goldie but a goodie.

That's it. Yes. And this is one of those where it's usually recommended that you sow this outside Mhmm. Instead of starting indoors. So a a really good one for filling in some of that extra space in the garden after you've gotten it all planted it out.

This one is, also just smaller in stature. So zinnias come in a lot of different sizes now. There's some that are more compact and more like, meant more for the front of a planting bed, like a border, style. And then there's the ones that are more for cut flowers, which are really tall and, probably these really long stems. This, I think, is more of a compact kinda in between, I would say in between size.

The other thing I like about this zinnia and I I like about all of these particular types of zinnias, the single flower zinnia. I don't know why. Double flower zinnia, I'm just like, man, that's a lot of flower. Like, it's it's a little you're you're a little over the top there, zinnia, but this one is the solitaire the the single flower. It's not a a double flower type. I just like those. I like seeing that open disc. Something about that I enjoy.

Butterflies like them too.

There you go. Part butterfly. The mothman.

I like them all. I'll just go on record. Next year, we might have a double because there's really cool colors that are coming out.

Mhmm. There is. Yes. Really nice. Got a cool name like megapunk, hey. I'd I'd grow that zinnia.

Mhmm. Yeah. They do need I think they do need to work on some of the names of the zinnias. I think they're just resting on their laurels as it being a zinnia. They're not overly creative. Like, giant coral. I grew that one last year. I mean, sure. But it's not mega punk.

Can do better.

Yes. Do better. Need some seashells or we need some megapunk or some old Mexico. Make me romances me with it.

Start from zinnia breeding.

There you go.

That's year three of the grow along.

Spoiler alert. We're breeding

Start breeding your own yes. Zinnias, hostas, daylilies. You name it. We're gonna start breeding them.

Well, that's it. That's I mean, that's it. Well, we have nine.

Mhmm. And

that that you guys was us showing restraint. We we had a lot more, but that's okay.

It's a long list. Mhmm. Yeah.

Yeah. Yep.

So well, that was a lot of great information about the different plants that are going to be available to you for our grow along, for this year in 2025. Now, we would love to offer seed to everybody, but we only have so much, to give away. So the registration numbers are limited. So once this, episode drops, you know, the registration will be open. Get there as soon as you can.

It's been my pleasure. And, yeah, we can we can keep working on the name, but, I really appreciate having, everybody participate. It's gonna be I mean, it's February right now, but, growing season is coming up quick. So, I'm getting excited.

Yes. Thank you both. I'm looking forward to this. I have to find a place to squeeze this stuff into my garden, but I think I can do it. And let's do this again next week.

Oh, we shall do this again next week. This warm weather that we experienced last week in January and February has really thrown me for a loop. So, you know, I'm already, like, getting ready, itching to get out in the garden. So, we'll have a garden bite for you next week. Ken's gotta teach some farmers how to grow tree fruit or something. You know? You know, tasty, delicious stuff like that. Important things. So, Ken, we'll miss you. But we'll have a garden bite for you next week, folks.

Alright. I gotta get that registration done.