When It’s Time To Leave with Callie Brownson

Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're fifty percent Pym's Cup and fifty percent Purple Drink, but we still haven't gotten our hands on a ben yet. It's Friday, February seventh, and on today's show, we'll be kicking it with Callie Bronson, former Cleveland Brown's assistant coach now senior

Baker continued.

The NCAA Board of Governors is reviewing the executive order and will take necessary steps to align NCAA policy in the coming days. Subject to further guidance from the administration, the Association will continue to help foster welcoming environments on campuses for all student athletes.

We stand ready to assist.

Schools as they look for ways to support any student athletes affected by changes in the policy.

End quote.

It's not lost on us, y'all that Trump announced this executive order on National Girls and Women in Sports Day.

The cruelty is the point.

Even though we had a feeling this was coming, even though we dreaded that this might be coming, it is still extremely upsetting. We're sending love to all the athletes and all the families affected, and we will certainly still be covering this issue more in the future. Trans Girls and Women in Sport are girls and women in Sport. In NWSL news, the Denver expansion franchise has become the fastest new side in league history to reach five thousand

Do you live in the Denver area?

We'll link to the site where you can sign up for season tickets in our show notes in NWSL and WNBA news, it was announced on Thursday that the Portland Thorns and the Cities yet to be named WNBA expansion team will train together at a brand new seventy five million dollar training facility that's expected to open ahead of the twenty twenty six WNBA season, part of a larger

Content rooms, and more.

One other cool tidbit, the Bethals are working with Workspace Property Trust to repurpose a former Nike office complex west of Portland in order to minimize environmental impact While building out this vision, We'll link to the Thorns release and mockups for the facility in our show notes. We love these facility wars. Y'all keep battling to be the best teams. We love to see it more. WNBA News free agent

PVF has two other games tomorrow.

We'll link to the schedule in our show notes elsewhere in the sport adjacent sphere, The met Gala's reviving its host committee tradition this year, and a few of our faves were tapped to service members. Team USA gymnasts Simone Biles, wnba U, Unrivaled player Angel Reese, and Team USA sprinter Shkari Richardson all made the list, which also includes folks like mister Biles, Regina King, Jenell Money and Moore.

Lebron James is the honorary chair.

The committee will support the evening's festivities and help set the tone for this year's dress code. Tailored for You a nod to the museum's super fine tailoring Black Style Costume Institute exhibit. Can't wait to see what looks they put together. Finally, in college hoops, a couple of big matchups going down this weekend. On Saturday, number eight Ohio State tries to bounce back from a sixty five fifty two loss to.

Top ranked UCLA the other night.

They traveled just a few more miles to play number seven USC and then on Sunday, Number four Texas host number two South Carolina for an SEC showdown. We'll link to the full weekend schedule in our show notes finished up Day two of Radio Row Slices, and I have to say I'm leaving the ick behind and finding just joy. So many old friends and colleagues, athletes that I've covered in the past, and people that I am so glad

Try to get her. We'll be sure to grab.

Her for the show soon when she's not hawking products and overscheduled. As for last night, I continued to take all the res and bop around the French Quarter, heading back to see my guy at Aaron Rose for another frozen Irish coffee, then off to the Davenport Lounge at the Ritz for a Pims cup that's a New Orleans specialty. That's the spot where the chiefs are stay in this year, and listen to some jazz from local legend trumpeter Jeremy Davenport. Then it was off to hear some live piano at

Very dangerous. Just had one.

I did some sightseeing on Bourbon Street. Always some good people watching there, grab some food, hung out with some friends. Enjoyed the scene and things are only going to get hotter and busier and crazier as we get closer to the weekend and the big game.

And speaking of the big game, quick props.

Two former Cornell football players are facing off on Sunday, Hunter Nours out of the Chiefs and Jalx Hunt of the Eagles, both in their rookie NFL season. So either way this weekend Cornell wins. Hope y'all enjoyed the game. We're going to take a quick break and when we come back. Callie Bronson joined me on Radio Row to talk about what she learned from the NFL that she's brought with her to the world of women's flag football.

Joining US now.

She's a barrier breaking coach at the college and professional levels who just joined USA Football as the Senior Director of High Performance and National Team Operations after spending five seasons with the Cleveland Browns in the NFL, acting as chief of staff and assistant wide receivers coach. She's the first woman ever to coach an NFL position group in

It's Calie Bronson. What's up, Callie?

Well, that's a lot DC Divas. Yeah, how'd you feel about that?

Name?

Was favorite?

Yeah, let's just say I wasn't on a lot of the advertisements. I didn't fit the Diva mold, but I still repped when I had to.

You know. Is that the same league that had the Philadelphia Lady Bells.

Or that Yeah, a long time for two years. Yeah, and now they're the fansoms I believe.

Okay, Well, shout out to my sister. Katie always weasel it in. I don't think she talks enough about how cool it was that she played professional football for two years. Okay, I want to first start with this new gig because you're overseeing USA Football's US national team program.

What does that mean?

What do they do?

Yeah?

Okay, Well, so obviously the big news that came out was flag footballs in the Olympics. I think to preface that and rewind like there's always been We've always had national teams. I played for the women's sacle national team, and obviously in the past few years we fielded flag national teams both men and women, adult and junior national teams. Well, obviously now it's in the Olympics. Everybody's talking about it.

Big deal. Men and women adult national teams are in the Olympics.

So with that happening, we're seeing such a shift and a growth in the sport. So really my job is to figure out our process, both player evaluations, to player selection, to coach selection, to how we practice, how we train. So we're really kind of taking our operation and souping it up to get to the point where over the next few years we're putting together the perfect operation for our national teams.

To go and win gold in LA.

And You're coming from the NFL, so they want someone that knows how things run at the very highest level of football and to bring those standards to flag exactly.

Yeah, you know, and I always I've already done it, you know, I'm in week three. So I go back to a lot of the stuff I dealt with as a chief of staff, you know, putting these processes in place, and understanding what's going to be the best and really like the role all of us, everybody on the high performance team, our job is to just create the best possible environment for our players and our coaches.

That's sick.

How do you feel about the timing of the Olympics, Because whenever I talk to women athletes, like you know, Sue Bird is like, of course, I'm jealous that right now people are making millions of dollars and they have the best resources that they're flying charter and they're you know, do you wish that you would have had a shot at it.

At the Olympics. I think about it all the time.

Yeah, you know, just just in general, I think about sports for women right now and how amazing it is. I mean, what an awesome time to be a female athlete, Like whether it be Olympic level or even what we're seeing in a WNBA, Like, it's so cool to see. So yeah, I mean, of course those of us who are competitors and put our bodies on the line are a little jealous, but I'm also so excited. It's so

Yeah, I'm definitely a little bittersweet.

I also like to convince myself that if all these things had been around when I was a kid, I would have worked harder and then I would have been at the level of being in the Olympics, even though yeah, probably isn't true. Okay, tell me about this Champions Rising documentary.

Yeah, so obviously they followed our national teams last year, going through the whole process. I love it because it's going to be a great way for the random person who wants to learn more about what the national teams are because it follows the whole journey from trials to training camp all the way through competition, so you get such a great view of what it is to be a national team player, but also what our process is.

I think if you have any.

Questions about what we're about and what it is, it's a great foundation for what the national team is and you get to see the sport from some pretty cool angles too.

So yeah, I mean, it.

Just feels like the ability to film in places and have more documentaries of every kind has allowed us to see the legitimacy and value of things that previously weren't given that treatment because it was primarily focused on men's sports and also goes documentary is much rare, and also with streaming there's more space to put.

Them, yep, and I'm looking forward to watching that.

Okay, I want to I want to ask you what you find most exciting about the current moment for women's slag football.

Yeah, a lot, to be honest, I'm excited about a lot. But the biggest thing is like where we are and how competitive it is, you know, watching these women play and even even the girls on the junior national team. It's come such a long way and it's it's only growing. So what I'm most excited about is being at this point and looking back in a couple of years and then looking back as we go to LA and being like, wow, we we just built.

Something very special.

Because the other thing that's being that I take as a task of mine is yeah, we need to go win gold, right, and we need to take it. You know, a great two great teams to LA, but we want to grow this for globally. We want every team that shows up in LA to be competitive. We want every game to be you know, close and competitive in this display of the amazing athletes that are part of it.

Flag football is like, wow, I have to tell you.

The only flag football name I know men's are women's is Deanna Flores.

Freaking badass. She's a friend.

We were on the Gatoray Women's Advisory Board together, Mexican national team quarterback. Okay, so I'm like, Okay, Mexico's got to be great because they've got Tana.

Is that true?

Oh yeah, great, they got a good team and they have they have done a great job with the sport of football too, because I know when when I both coached and played on the on the tackle team, the national team have a great women's tackle team too. I mean, yeah, they definitely deserve their flowers and their respect in that regard. And it's always a pretty competitive matchup anytime the US national teams team up with with Team Mexico.

So it's the win, of course. Great. Good to know it's right.

You know a lot of times, when say, for instance, there's developments in the softball world, softball players are excited, but also men who play baseball don't necessarily want to be diverted to something if baseball is their love.

Yeah.

How do you feel about flag football being the thing that's getting pushed for women and what it might mean for tackle football for women.

Yeah. Well, so one of the things I like to say when when when this comes up is they're vastly different sports, so I mean vastly tackle versus flag.

So it's not gonna be for everybody, right, there are.

Gonna be plenty of women who currently play in the in the tackle leagues around the US and even around the world who don't need to venture into the space.

Now.

I know it's a feeling because it's in the Olympics, but they're vastly different sports, not going to be for everybody.

But what we're we're.

Looking at is the transition of athletes from every sport, so men and women, you know, basketball players, Like what are the translatable skills that make a successful flag football player that exists in other sports? I mean, that's where a lot of that talent pool is going to come from. So we've we've kind of started looking into all those things and it's been really exciting because you know, to that point, it's not going to be for everybody, and

You're very small, were you always very small? I can't picture you're wrapping someone up and taking him down.

I have some perfect form, I have some pictures, and yes I worked on my form, but I was a little beef heer back then, in a good way, like I think. I think when I was playing, I was one fifty five, one sixty on this frame. I had some muscles I've leaned out in my retired years.

None of the sports I played allowed tackling.

It didn't always stop me, though, and I don't wish I'd had more opportunity, don't doubt that.

I want to ask how you first got into football. Yeah.

I grew up loving the game because my dad loved the game, so he went to University of Miami, and so I grew up watching like the glory days of Miami, like Larry Kocher was the head coach, and all those guys come through the Hurricane program, and so that's what we did on Saturdays. We watched Miami Hurricane football and we used to go to games, and we used to go down for spring practice because we still he still had a house down there in Coral Gables.

So it was kind of ingrained in me from the jump to love football.

I mean, baseball was my first love because I grew up watching Cal Ripken in Baltimore and that was hard. It's hard to shy away from that kind of stuff. But football always like had a different pool on me.

And then you got into soopta because they wouldn't let you play fastball, let me play football.

And you don't have to answer this if it's sensitive.

You were raised by your dad, Yeah, solo dad?

Yeah, how come? Well? My parents got divorced early on.

My mom was kind of going through some stuff personally, and it was just the right decision. And I tip my hat to my dad every day for making hard decisions like that. But it really made me who I am today, and I'm so grateful for him. Tough things for families to go through but necessary things and I'm just I'm so happy to call him dad.

Yeah, okay, so you play softball in college, but then you get back into football.

You've always had this like love of it.

And in twenty nineteen, you became the first woman to coach full time in Division one college football as an offensive quality control coach for Dartmouth. Yep, that was my number one choice. I did not get in, but that's okay. I really enjoyed where I went. Will not hold it against them for the rest of my life, even though I saw to him. What do you think coach Buddy Teven saw in you back then? Yeah?

I remember when we met. We met at the Manning Passing Academy. They're doing a clinic for women and girls down in Thibodaux, Louisiana at Nicols State University.

It was like early August. It was so hot.

I just I remember that part, and I remember Buddy. We just clicked.

Like.

We sat there the night before the camp with a whiteboard and he and I went through. He had never really done a camp for women and girls before. She was like, how advanced did we go?

Whatever?

So I sat there in the locker room with him, and we were writing everything, all the stations down on a whiteboard and it was just one of those things that felt so organic and so easy, like we saw things the same way, we communicated the same way. He was a very like organized I need to know what's happening at all times.

That's how I operate.

And so then the next day at the camp, just rolling around, he could see how much fun I was having. And a week later I got a call and he said, I don't know what it is, but I I want you to be a part of our football program. Could come up in intern for us during camp, and I told him, I said, I share the sentence, the sentiment, you know I I I was so honored to work with you. And even in those two days what I

Yeah, he tragically passed away in a bike accident, but had a great, great resume of helping make the sport more safe, yes, and more equitable and divorse absolutely and So the reason you were ready for that job is you played college softball and then you transferred to George Mason. And while at George Mason, that's when you started playing with the DCDA. So you're playing alongside women in their

It's a great question, and I think it's something that a lot of former players can can attest to. But when I was playing, I was such an analytical I saw the game from a way that I wanted to learn every facet of it was as a film study nerd. I really wanted to learn the game schematically. And I played both sides of the ball, so that really helped me.

So I just I was like a football junkie. I loved it.

And even on the field, you know, the resources in women's stockle are not where they need to be, so some of us had to step up and be coaches during practice, you know. And I just always had a knack for it. I was coaching high school softball at the time, trying to make some money while I was in school and all so forth, and so I loved coaching because coaching is just teaching, And to me, coaching is teaching on something that you're like massively passionate about,

And it's amazing. Yeah, it's really cool.

How do you decide when you're with the Browns and you're getting a lot of publicity as one of the few coaches in the NFL women coaches, how do you decide whether to just do the work or to lean into what representation means for other women and how you're in flos might impact future generations.

I think it's important to find the balance because at the end of the day, you're not gonna be in that position of influence if you're not doing the work and you're not doing your job, you know, So so I think it's a balance. It's like I always say, like with some of the women who jump in there, it's like finding a way to be passive and aggressive at the same time.

So knowing I'm very passive aggressive as joking, I will I'm gonna that's my follow up. I'll be asking no.

But it's it's it's one of those things where you do need to use your platform. I always tell like some of the women who come in, like when you get asked a question when you do something, if you do a podcast, if you do an event, are you doing it for yourself or you're doing it for the greater good. If you're going to answer that question you're doing it for the greater good, then it's worth your time.

Absolutely use your platform.

I've talked to coach Low about this Lori Locust, and she said the problem is like if you're getting a ton of attention that other people around the same position aren't getting. It can isolate you, and it can make you feel othered in a way that doesn't bring you to the team.

And a huge part of being one of the only women.

On the staff is to make sure that you can be a part of the squad and not always on the outside. And so she was very careful and continues to be very careful about what publicity she does do and how she uses her platform, and then also not othering herself.

And I agree, and I think you just have to be selective in the things you do. You know, at the end of the day, you got hired to do a job. It's cool that it created this platform for you. It's actually great that it did. But I always found too like doing a really good job at what you do and then getting promoted, that's a bigger message than anything else.

So always choose job and work first, and it's okay to say no to things. Yeah.

While you're with Cleveland, the team acquired quarterback to Shan Watson after he was sued by more than two dozen female massage therapists for sexual arrassment and sexual assault. He's settled twenty claims of sexual misconduct. I often find that marginalized groups are expected to a advocate for themselves and their peers, while members of the offending group aren't taken to the path for their silence and their complicity. I

I would say this, I have so much respect for Kevin and Andrew Berry already. How they handled that situation internally was even more respectable. You know, I didn't. I didn't feel marginalized. I didn't feel like I couldn't, you know, say my piece. I didn't, you know, I never felt that way. I think between the two of them, internally

I would say I never felt isolated.

I never felt not supported, I never felt unheard, and that's a credit to them as leaders.

Yeah, for sure, I feel like it's frustrating when I've been in the space of speaking out about issues like that, or even when there were issues at ESPN, people would come to me and be like, how do you keep working.

There when this guy did this?

Sure, and I'm like, are you asking all the men why you're not? And we can't be the ones being victimized and also the ones expected to put our next on the line, our jobs on the line, and have nobody else step.

Up, so and I will.

I'll say this too about those two I and continue to still have so much faith in their leadership and what they would do that at the end of it all, if they felt it was the right thing for the organization, I was with them, you know. And that's how I feel about them as individuals and leaders. I would run through a brick wall for both of them. So if it's a direction they wanted to go, I'm right there.

I'm with you. Then why did you know it was time to leave?

Honestly, this opportunity is what made me start considering it. I didn't really have any you know, it's gonna be the NFL forever. And you know, other people had expected for what the next five to ten years of my life were supposed to be in the NFL. When this opportunity came up, I just saw this as an incredible opportunity that.

Was once in a lifetime.

And as I continue to talk to the people that you say football and what they envisioned for this role, I had to ask myself, like, if I look back in a year or two years or three years and pass this up, would I be okay with it? And I didn't feel like I would be. This is something really special and it's going to change. You know, it's

And you've got the talent that if you change your mind on the NFL it's calling again, you can always go back. Of course, what was the biggest lesson you learn from your time in Cleveland?

I learned a lot, But I would say one of the things I really respected about coach Stefanski is he's so cool, calm and collected through everything. And I said this to him he or two when I was the chief of staff. I was like, I need to learn composure from you because as chief of staff, you have so much going on, and I always, you know, I would let myself. Biggest thing I took away was that

You know.

It's like it's like in the game when the.

Quarterback throws an interception and they immediately zoom in on the head coach, yeah, you know, And I was like, Okay, who would I be in that situation?

And so I literally I told him, you know.

Year two, I was like, that's what I'm gonna work on this year because I think in order to lead people, they need to see that, even in times of trial, you're unshaken.

And that's who he is.

So I really worked on that with him, and I mean we saw it all the way through I mean twenty twenty three season.

Everything, We went.

Through four or five quarterbacks, all this stuff, and Kevin every meeting, even behind closed doors, unshaken. So I've really tasked myself with that. That's the biggest thing I took away. It is like, how can I be a leader that went things go awry and the boat starts to rock. Everybody's looking like she's cool, So I'm cool. Yeah, Okay.

Final two questions honest answer, no bias. Who will win the first Olympics and women's flag football the US?

Okay? Who will win a Super Bowl? First? The Chicago Bears or the Cleveland Browns.

The Cleveland Browns, God damn it bias that there was a ton of bias. Clean honest answer, y'all don't even have a quarterback situation figured out.

The Cleveland Browns figured out, oh we do dog pound.

The Leeland Browns figure out is what the fans have been saying for literally decade, and they'll do it again this year. It's fine. They've been telling the Bears that too. Callie, thanks so much for the time. We're looking forward to seeing everything.

Thank you so much.

We have to take another quick break. When we come back.

We celebrate Black History Month by introducing you to a pioneering softball player.

Welcome back, Slices.

It's Black History Month, and throughout February, we're going to shine a spotlight on some black women's sports pioneers you might not know about. Since college softball season just got underway, feels.

Fitting to start there.

Now.

We're certain you've heard of Jackie Robinson, the man who broke Major League Baseball's color.

Barrier, but who led the way in softball.

One of the women who took the field first was Billy Harris. If you've seen a League of their Own, Harris as one of the real life players that inspired some of the show's characters. According to an excellent article by Veronica Wells in Essence magazine, Harris discovered softball through a piece she read about a couple of local Arizona softball teams back in nineteen forty seven. From there, she started working on her skills. As she practiced on the

She made the team and the rest was history.

In her long career, which lasted until she was seventy four years old, she threw seventy no hitters, pitched four perfect games, and scored one hundred and twenty three runs. Some folks even called her the Jackie Robinson of softball.

Of course, it wasn't all peaches and cream.

During the time she played, she was often the only black woman on her team. Segregation meant she was mistreated commared to her white teammates, and sometimes her teammates were the ones being racist and showing hostility toward her. Despite that and so much more, she went on to become the first African American woman inducted into the USA Softball

Edenfield, just to name a few.

But there's still work to be done to ensure that young black kids are welcomed in the sport, believe it or not, In the year twenty twenty four, Olivia Madkins, Columbia Softball's first ever black softball player, took the field. Now, does that mean Columbia softball has been intentionally biased since the program's first team was formed in nineteen ninety eight. Not necessarily, but it just goes to show that there have always been opportunities that.

Could have gone to black players and didn't.

So hats off to Billy forgetting in the game back in the late forties, and more power to Olivia and other athletes still breaking down barrier today. We always love that you're listening, but we want you to get in the game every day too, So here's our good game play of the day. Fill out your unrivaled one on one tournament bracket and give us your logic as to why you picked the way you did. We'd love to know who you got and see if any slices can

It's real easy.

Watch the WNBA and O Pill partnership rating five out of five. Keep doing the damn work review with so many companies already bowing down to the dictatorial directives and

End quote. Now it's your.

Turn to rate and review. Thanks for listening, Have a great weekend, See you next week. Good Game, Cali, Good Game, Billy Harris. You anti science, anti intellectual, anti common sense, anti humanity policies. Good Game with Sarah Spain is an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app,