Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're already knee deep in hot nuts and Christmas cookies and the real holiday party stretch hasn't even begun. It's Thursday, December twelfth, and today Team USA athlete and founder of transathlete dot com Chris Moser joins the show. We talk about how he's staying positive and hopeful post election, the motivation behind trans athlete bands and lawsuits, and how anti trans rhetoric is affecting CIS women in sports too.
Plus now is a.
Great time to hear about successes and moments of joy. Lord knows we need some joy, so today we help celebrate some slices.
It's all coming up right after this.
Welcome back, Mish has got your need to know today, Take it away, Mesh.
Thank you, Sarah. To college hoops, where we're gearing up for a top ten tip off. The number two Yukon Huskies take on number eight Notre Dame in the Shamrock Classic tonight at seven pm Eastern on EA. The dynamic guard duo of sophomore Hand Hidalgo and senior Olivia Miles has had a hell of a season so far for the Fighting Irish, averaging over forty points a game, combined under the tutelage of former point guard Neil Ivy, who led Notre Dame to its first national championship as a
player back in one. The Huskies will be without star Azy Fudd, who suffered a minor right knee brain and last Saturday's win over Louisville. Coach Gino Oriema said Fud is expected to be out all week, which will also likely include Yukon's Big East Conference opener against Georgetown this coming Sunday.
Live Laugh, Love college vibs. I know you guys love it.
You can't stop saying it now, And all I'm gonna say is you're welcome. The NCAA Tournament continues tonight with the start of the Round of sixteen. The four matches this evening include number one pit taking on number four Oregon and number one Louisville against number four per Due. Will link to the full tournament schedule in our show notes and have you been keeping up with our bracket challenge? Producer Alex wants y'all to know that she's currently tied
for third in the standings. Sarah, meanwhile, is forty sixth, so let's just move on from college vibes, we turn to professional vibes. League one Volleyball, also known as LOVE, announced its full broadcast plans for the league's inaugural season, which begins on January eighth. This season, all sixty games will be available to stream either on ESPN plus, the Women's Sports Network, or Dazen Daisen the Zone Anyway, with a handful of games also on ESPN two and ESPNU plus.
The LOVE Finals, which will take place from April tenth through the thirteenth, will air on ESPN two. Will link to the full broadcast schedule in our show notes to lacrosse, The new Women's Lacrosse League has announced the names and logos for its inaugural four teams, the Boston Guard, New York Charging, Maryland Charm and California Palms. The teams also announced their respective captains. Charlotte North, who won a national title at Boston College twenty twenty one, we'll return to
that city to lead the Guard. Northwestern alum Izzy Scain is heading up New York Terps national champ alex Os Holman will play for Maryland, and Ali Mastriani has the hopes of California resting on her shoulders. The WL also announced the schedule for its twenty twenty five LEXUS Championship Series, a joint tournament with the men's league the PLL or Premier Lacrosse League. The series comes to the nation's capital,
more specifically Springfield, Virginia, February eleventh through the seventeenth. This will be the first time that all four WL teams compete, and tickets are on sale now will put the link to purchase in our show notes. Did I mention I love living? You know what I'm gonna say. I ain't even got to say it. Thank you, Misha. We got to take a break when we come back. A predictably thoughtful but surprisingly uplifting conversation with my friend Chris.
Mojer joining US now.
He's an eight time member of Team USA, a four time national champion, the first transgender athlete to represent the US and international competition, first transgender athlete and the ESPN body issue, first transgender athletes sponsored by Nike, and first transgender athlete to qualify for the Olympic Trials, and the
gender they identify. He's the founder of transathlete dot com, a resource for students athletes coaches and administrators to find info about trans inclusion and athletics at all levels of play. He has spoken across the world about inclusion in sports, his experience as a transgender athlete, athlete, activism, and creating more inclusive spaces. And he trained my friend in a triathlon and I see him at sky Games.
It's Chris Moser. What's up, Chris?
Hello, Thanks for having me.
I'm so glad to have you here. I just want to start with how you're doing. It's been a rough couple weeks for me, and I am a mostly privileged class at least for now, although it seems like women are getting progressively less able to control our own bodies and lives.
But I feel like for my marginalized.
Friends are particularly my trans friends, it's been particularly tough.
So how are you y?
Thanks for asking, you know, it is definitely a loaded question these days. I feel like there's a little asterix on that question for everybody, like how are you doing? All things considered right? Like I'm doing okay. I feel like I had my good cry, I had my real freak out moment for sure, and I definitely am kind of going in and out of those those moments, but I feel so activated and inspired to you know, I feel like this is this is the time that I
was built for. I really feel motivated and inspired to stand in my power, to stand in my identity, and to really use this moment as a way to create change in the world. And I sort of feel like that's my only option, right, Like it's either that or what. Like, we weren't put on this earth just to survive. I was put here to thrive, I believe, and so I want to create the conditions to make that the most possible in my life and other people's lives.
I'm so inspired to hear that. I really hope that comes back to me. I feel like I have such an activist spirit. And in other times I've been like, Okay, I'm gonna be sad and then I'm going to get right back at it. I'm having trouble bouncing back the same way.
This time.
I just feel so incredibly deflated, and I'm believing in my natural state of like ripshit up and it's that.
It's going to come back. I'm not quite.
There yet, yeah, and that's fair. You know. I want to say, Sarah, like I believe you are creating. You know, you are doing activism by doing the show, by sharing stories, by elevating and using your platform to provide other people like myself the opportunity to share our experiences and our expertise. But also I feel like this might be helpful for you and for your listeners about why I can feel inspired right now, And it's really because I truly believe
two things are true. I believe people are inherently good, and it has really been a challenge for me to lean into that belief in the last couple of weeks, in the outcome of the election, in seeing in the path and the direction that the world is going. But I do truly believe that people are in good, that they want to do good. And then I also secondly believe that people are capable of change, and that when
you know better, you can do better. And when you meet somebody with an identity that you don't have and talk to them like a human, you know we can create change in this world. And those are the two things that I have to believe in every single day to be able to show up and do the work that I do.
That's really smart too, because that is true. We know that it's true.
We know that when people come into contact with trans people, gay people, immigrants, people of a different color, people of a different religion, and they're forced to actually interact with them, they tend to change their minds. There's so many really high profile public examples of that, and unfortunately, we are finding ourselves tribalized in ways that allows for fear mongering to create what feels like bad people, and more often
than not, you're probably right. They're misinformed, they're scared, they're worried about their own interest, and it results in what feels like very hateful voting, very hateful policy, Which is why you're here, because it feels like in the last couple of years, the around trans people, both in life and in sport, has become so bifurcated in the sense of like you either think everyone's in one extreme or
the other. Either they're hateful and awful and they think trans people shouldn't exist, or on the other side, they want trans participation in sport regardless of policy or equality or fairness. And there's actually so much middle ground to talk about if you're willing to have a conversation, and so I want to start there. How do you think we got here where it feels so black and white.
Yeah, Well, the truth is sports is incredibly polarizing for a lot of people, and for folks who don't even play sports, who have literally no skin in the game here. They have an opinion about sports. They have an opinion about fairness, they have an opinion about level of play, about competitive nature, and they have a set of beliefs that they believe are right and wrong for the rules of sport. The truth is, sport is a very binary system. You know, like sport didn't create the gender binary, it
lives within it. And that complicates this conversation a little bit more. But I believe that sports became the entry point for the attacks on trans people. And I've been saying this for the last decade now. You know, twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, we started to see bathroom bands pop up around the country, and famously North Carolina pushed back on HB two, and we actually saw a lot of the sports world get involved in that fight at that time.
And you know, it's a good question what happened between twenty sixteen where there was all of this outrage about bathroom bands and about attacks on trans people's autonomy and ability to exist in public spaces. And twenty twenty when we saw our first anti transports ban go into effect right before COVID hit. You know, I think that that sport is just a real opportunity for people to dip
their foot in. And when we started to see the bands on sports get passed, it was very soon after that every single one of those states started to attack
trans people in a different way. So whether it was about medical care, or it was about school pronouns and forced outing in elementary schools, or library books or drag queens, you know, we started to see these attacks from all angles, and sport really was just the entry point to those attacks, because I really don't believe it's about sports, and I really don't believe it's even about health care or about
library books. It's about trying to make it so that trans kids don't grow up to be trans adults, and that trans adults have such a horrible time here that they can't live safe, open, healthy and happy lives out in public.
And so this is much.
Bigger than sports. Sports was just the easy access point because everybody has an opinion about it.
An opinion, and because it is, to your point, alongside bathrooms, one of the few places where we are very firm in our decision making around the binary of gender. In almost any other space in life, there are you know, you could walk into any department of the store and you can buy a whole bunch of men's clothes if that's what you want, or women's.
Clothes or whatever. They're not actually going to stop you wear.
Sports and bathrooms are the place where you're supposed to be limited, and it allows people, to your point, to come in under the guise of caring about women's in girls' sport. And then once you've turned people against trans people and demonized them in a specific way, you can then start pushing for their autonomy and rights to be affected in ways that previously people would not even consider voting for
or doing. But now that you've made them evil, you can now try to take away their right to exist. You know, you opened up about your identity, about the gender you identify as in what you wanted to play, as you advocated for policy change years ago, well before this issue was mainstream. Why or as a result of what do you attribute your ability to do that so early in a space that was so unwelcoming.
Well, a couple of reasons. The first is that I'm a trans man, and so I navigate the world already with inherited privilege of being perceived as a straight white dude, and so I transition from being, you know, a masculine presenting quote unquote woman who never felt like a woman, and to being perceived as a straight white guy, and that did provide me a lot of privilege to navigate
spaces without issue. I think the second part of that in the sports context is that because I was assigned female at birth, people didn't think that I'd be competitive with men and therefore kind of gave me a shoulder shrug and go ahead and participate. We're not worried about you in terms of being competitive, And even when I have had athletic success, which I have been fortunate enough to have in the men's category, it's still got to
get a shrug. And there are multiple reasons given from any troll on the internet about why it's not legit or it's not really worth paying attention to. On the flip side of that, any trans woman who just wants to participate in a sport, even in a recreational five k in their local town is facing pushback because of
the myths and misinformation that have circulated. So I was able to create change early on because there was a lack of information out there, because we didn't have this full scale fear mongering campaign that exists right now trying to make people believe certain things about the trans community.
Yeah, I remember it was probably a decade ago that you were at the espnW summit in California, pool Side, giving a lecture about policy at different levels and really just using information that existed to help people understand an
issue that was relatively new. There was a survey one year, probably around the same time, maybe just after that, because usually that's around October at the end of the year, asking us, some members of ESPN to fill out some general ideas about stories we'd like to do or things we'd like to see, And one of them was what do you think is a big issue in sports that
needs to be tackled that's coming up? And I wrote trans inclusion, trans participation, Like we need to get out ahead of this and start using information because I watched the way your presentation changed the minds of people who were either afraid or unsure or just didn't know. And I think that's part of the problem here, is people are motivated by a lack of knowledge, but not all of them are seeking it right. So I wonder what you think the main motivating factor is for those who
are not involved in women's sports. They aren't addressing lack of resources, toxic and abusive coaches, sexual assault and harassment, under investment, unequal opportunity, Title nine violations, the many, many, many things that we could be addressing when it comes to inequality and lack of fairness for women and girls in sport. They're not doing any of that, but they are spending their time advocating against trans participation.
What do you think the main motivating factor for those people is?
It's absolutely political. I mean, I wish that there was another way I could say it, but the GOP spent over two hundred and fifteen million dollars in this campaign presidential election campaign on ads that were against the trans community. Trump Advance spent over twenty million dollars on this topic alone. And if you think about the number of trans people that are actually participating in sports, you know, it's an outrageous number to put on any topic, but particularly one
that is, so, you know, not an issue. We've said for years, this is a solution in search of a problem, and what we've seen is actually that the folks who don't want trans people to exist. And I say it like that because a lot of these sports organizations that are trying to get trans people to not be able to participate in sports, and particularly in women's sports. The other tenets of those organizations are to keep transwomen in men's prisons and to make sure that trans people can't
change their gender marker on their IDs. So again, this is not about sports.
This is about.
Overarching transphobia, misogyny, sexism that exists in the world and targeting the trans community in different ways, and so sports is just one of the ways, but obviously a very
successful way. We've seen that right wing media has more clicks and hits on pieces about trans athletes than any other piece about the trans community or LGBTQ people at large, and so this is a hot button topic that they know will get them the clicks, the likes, the views, the shares, and therefore that INCENTI devises more content about it. But also we're seeing that this content is very one sided.
So in most of the articles that come out, they never speak to a trans athlete or to even an LGBTQ plus organization that supports the trans community, and so we're seeing a lot of propaganda pieces. And when that's the information that's out there, when ninety percent of the articles are saying that trans people are monsters, that there are a threatened sports, it doesn't matter that there are zero professional transomen athletes right now in the United States.
What we're seeing is that, you know, trans athletes are the problem with women's sports, and this dynamic has been set up so that people without the information, like you said, or aren't seeking out the information, believe this to be true, and then for really solid opinions on it, that they will plant their flag in the ground and not be willing to get new information.
And I think that's what's so frustrating is I'm open to having these conversations. I want to talk to people about policy at different levels and the best way to handle things and how to make sure it is fair and equitable and safe. But so often it comes at the price of having a conversation with someone who will not use someone's correct pronouns and name, who refuses to acknowledge their identity. And if you can't, at least start
by acknowledging and respecting somebody before the conversation begins. I don't believe that you're someone who wants to learn and change, and that makes it really difficult. Have you been asked to have those kind of conversations with quote unquote the opposite side and what's your take on being able to actually change minds through those kind of debates?
Yeah? I have. I would say there was a period of time where it was more than one a week, but about once a week I get a request from a TV show, a podcast, radio show, whatever to have a debate quote unquote debate, right, so, to talk about both sides of the issue, And when it's really framed up as a debate, I'm not willing to go onto any show and debate my humanity because that's really what
is happening here. To your point, For me to sit with somebody who refuses to use appropriate names and pronouns of trans people, what that shows me is that those people don't believe that trans people exist. Right. If you're just fundamentally unwilling to call a trans woman a woman who is of trans experience to continually misgender her and say that she's a biological man or whatever. We've seen that those those words, that language weaponized against our community,
and I just I won't do it. I don't think it's helpful for me to sit and debate. I don't think it's helpful for my mental health, first and foremost. But I don't think it's going to change hearts and minds because if the goal in those in those episodes is to win, right, no one's going to be open to learn about my experience or what the trans community is actually facing. So I think there are different ways to create change, and I do believe that there is
a movable middle. Right. There are people who just don't have the information or who have heard a certain thing and are curious to learn more, and just I don't know a respected source to go to. And I think that I can talk to those people and you know, and share my experience and share the experiences of my community in a way that's not shoving it down their
throat or trying to get them to change. But I believe if they're open to change, they can at least hear my side, right, Because I'm not here to force change upon anybody. I truly believe if you hear the facts and the information, it would make you scratch your head and go, I wonder why this is such a hot button issue right now? Why are we spending so much money and so much time on this topic right now?
And so you know, I'm willing to have those conversations, but not to put myself in the line of fire, because that doesn't make anybody change their minds, and it doesn't make anybody happy either in terms of my community, in terms of other folks. It just creates more polarization, right.
I think, to your point, like if the goal is to win a debate, there's way too much nuance in this conversation. To your point, we're trying to operate in a binary system of sports. When we understand that hu are not binary. There is this spectrum. We are not operating with the scientific belief anymore that you're male or female and there's nothing else. There's so much more, and trying to shove that into a binary system is why
we're having so much difficulty. It doesn't mean there aren't solutions that can be found, or elections and intentions that can be met, but you have to be willing to speak with nuance, and a lot of times those debates are not what do you say to folks who are genuinely concerned about how trans inclusion might affect fairness or safety in girls and women's sports.
I think it's amazing that people are concerned about that. I think that's a starting point, like, let's start there that I'm glad that people have the interest in women's sports to want to ensure fair and safe competition, and also we can have fair and safe competition and be inclusive at the same time. And I have a number of instances and studies that I can share with people about that. But I think more than giving them scientific data or a journal article to read, the lived experience,
sharing the lived experience. It's that I have that my friends who are trans women have connecting people, you know, to folks to hear their information, or even connecting them to something like Changing the Game, a documentary on Hulu that I was the executive producer for that actually follows
trans athletes and shares their experiences from their own moths. Right, that's the exposure that people need to have to this topic to begin to start to question why we're talking about it so much, and also some of the things that they've heard, like you know, lawmakers are saying that this is a huge problem, and yet like how many trans athletes are out there actually competing? How many could you name? How many do you know of from the
news articles? And all of those articles are negative, So it kind of makes you think, like, why are we focusing on this so much?
Yeah, I think you're right.
We start with human beings and their individual stories changing the game is a great one. Pablo Tory's excellent episode about these single trans girl who an entire state created a law for so she couldn't sit on the bench
of a softball team. It is a true story, but with the human beings, so that when we say air on the side of inclusion and also understand that there's policy at every single different level to make sure that there's fairness, you start from a place of humanity and then you go to the science that backs all of that. Soon you've been following the San Jose State volleyball story.
Just to recap for everybody, Captain Brooks luster on that team joined a lawsuit against the NCAA stating that a teammate is transgender and poses a safety risk to her teammates and competitors across the conference. Then was part of a failed motion against the Mountain West that would have rendered that player ineligible and removed wins from the team.
The team has gotten a lot of wins this season as a result of forfeits, people not wanting to play against them once she tried to out her teammate as transgender. There's so much there, but I just wonder what what has stood out to you from that situation beyond the obvious, which is a teammate and then later an assistant coach filing a lawsuit against their own team trying to take away wins, and the fact that the player has been on the team for three years without incident.
I mean there's number one, right US teams and schools have been playing against this player and this team for years and didn't have a problem in the past, and then this information comes out and suddenly she's a threat and it's a problem, And that, you know, is the first thing that should help people scratch their heads and go, I wonder what's going on here? You know. The second thing is, like, Sarah, I know you are a team
sport person. Could you imagine this happening on a team, and just the fact that they continue to play together, you know, I think it really speaks to that accused athlete and her sense of self and her motivation to continue to play the sport that she loves. Just what a horrendous situation that I think is just in terms of timing, because we've just come off the election and all of this anti trans rhetoric. It's just really ramping
things up. And I think the most disappointing part of this is that just much in the way as young people a couple of years ago we kind of laughed about them being social media influencers as a full time job, it is now a full time job, a lucrative one at that, to be anti trans as a young cis white girl on some of these teams, and it's like we're watching this recruiting pattern happen of organizations like targeting teams and trying to get them to make public statements,
to wear stupid T shirts on stage at political rallies, and to speak out when you know, it's just so disappointing because to your point at the top of the show, there are so many issues that lawmakers and policymakers and people interested in preserving and helping women's sports could be focusing on like high rates of sexual assault and misconduct, lack of title mind compliance, you know, lack of opportunities
at professional level, money, media attention, on and on and on. Right, And if you were truly interested in elevating the sport, elevating status of women in sports, we'd be focusing on those things instead of trying to make a career off of hating trans people.
Yeah, and I think yeah.
The fact that there were no issues and she was just a volleyball player on a team for years until you decided to take a clip, go on the internet, make it feel viral, say untrue things about her size or speed or ability, etc.
In order to stir people up.
Is the biggest microcosm macrocosm of the entire thing is this was not an issue, and you made it one, and now you're going to try to profit off that. And it's really frustrating and frustrating for the player, but also the whole team. The number of games they didn't get to play, their college experience completely spoiled by someone who made it about herself while pretending it was about
someone else, you know. Anti trans writeric has also started to affect CIS women athletes, including some high profile recent cases.
We saw in the Olympics boxer Amani Khaliff.
We saw Whorlando Pride and Zambia national player Barbara Banda was named BBC Footballer of the Year.
This high profile award, this great.
Honor, and it draws the attention of anti trans folks like JK Rowling, who has a big following and accuses Banda of being quote unquote a man and quote unquote cheating other female athletes of the prize. You know, some
details for context from a story in The Athletic. This claim stems from reports a couple of years ago that the Zambian Football Federation withdrew Barbara Banda from its squad for the Women's Africa Cup of Nations in Morocco for quote unquote medical reasons, amid reports of a gender verification test. Now FIFA and the Confederation of African Football confirmed she wasn't disqualified from any participation. The Orlando Pride and says
there's never been a gender verification test done. And then Barbara represented Zambia at the World Cup in twenty twenty three, represented Zambia in the Olympics in Paris, has played for the NWSL with no issues and crucially it has only been under CAAF's jurisdiction that there have been problems before.
Now there's questions, just.
Like with the Mani Khalif, about the federation that decides and rules against athletes. And Barbara is eligible for the next edition of AFCHAN held in Morocco in twenty twenty five. So we get one report, or we get one question, or we get one federation or overseeing board that claims something about an athlete, and DSD athletes and and anything else, they all get grouped in because of these attacks on
trans athletes. What do you make of athletes like Khalif and band who are attacked and questioned as part of this larger attack on trans athletes.
Well, we have to recognize and understand that this is an intersectional attack, that this is deeply rooted in racism and people's ideas of a certain type of white Eurocentric femininity that is expected to be upheld by the patriarchy. And so that is the first point that I think you know that flags for me is that we often see that women of color and particularly women from the Global South are targeted in these attacks on gender policing
at higher rates. And we even saw it. I mean as far back as two Olympics ago, Serena Williams, Venus Williams, even Michelle Obama has been victim of these sort of like gender call outs online and it's deeply rooted in racist rhetoric. The second thing is that we're seeing these attacks in on SIS women and it should call into question for everyone that if you don't present in a certain way, you are at risk here right. I know that in our past conversations we've talked about the ways
in which you've been gender policed in the restroom. I specifically remember before I transitioned, when people assumed me to be a woman, before anyone knew I was trans being pulled out of a restroom at my workplace because another woman in the restroom in the women's room said that I didn't belong there, And I mean, it was incredibly humiliating. You know, I can't even begin to express how traumatizing
that was in the workplace. I only use gender neutral restrooms for the remainder of my time working there after that to have security come in where you work and pull you out. You know, it was humiliating, and we're hearing more cases of that happening because when we call into question online without any legitimate concern or facts, right like, this is just something that JK. Rowling put out online right with the following base that she has, it just
spreads and then that becomes truth. And then that person, right, a money Cliff or anybody who's attacked like that, needs to then defend the fact that you're a woman, right like it. It doesn't make sense and h get in front of.
Right based on historical precedent, violating you know, non medical procedures from non medical people, expectations of taking drugs to affect your natural bodily makeup in pursuit of an artificial standard that is different across every single board, every single competition, every single country, ultimately with the desire to try to put a cap on what we believe makes you a woman,
and there is no cap on being a man. You could be as strong and as big and as great and as wonderful, and every time someone does something bigger and better and faster, he's a marvel. But when women get better stronger, faster, bigger, they become men and we have to demonize them. So to your point, it is entirely rooted, not just in racism, but deeply held misogyny. Yeah.
And I think you know, that really calls into the conversation about restrooms that we're seeing now, because our restroom conversations are very closely related to locker rooms and sports.
And this is what people are missing in this giant conversation is that when people are trying to ban trans women from women's locker rooms or trans women from women's bathrooms, right, what they want to do is put everybody in according to their assignment at birth, right their original birth certificate, which puts me and my incredible fancy mustache in a
women's restroom, right. And I think that people don't understand and people don't think about that that while people are creating this, you know, this monster of a person that they're saying that trans women are and that people should be afraid, how do you think it's going to end when I follow Nancy Mace into the women's bathroom of the Capitol, right, I don't think it's going to be
a safer situation for anyone. And a lot of the targeting of trans people has been so deeply focused on trans women, and I think it's because people are afraid of cis men, and this is the issue. So if you are truly afraid of a man coming into a women's space and assaulting women, what you are afraid of is cisgender men, not the trans community. And that has
been something that's been overlooked. We have lawmakers who are being put onto the cabinet and voted into office who are known offenders, and yet we're using this as a distraction from the real issues.
Yeah.
Absolutely, And to your point about the bathrooms and who gets to go where and how they're presenting. The scary thing, not just for trans folks, but for all women and girls, is what that will mean for how they expect you to present in order to not be subject to their criticism.
And you know you mentioned I don't even look like a dude.
I just am very tall, and I wear a baseball cap a lot and don't try hard to like look cute all the time. So when people don't look hard, they'll look up and be like, yes, sir, what do you want to my god?
So it's fine, I'm a lady.
But imagine being if I were a young athlete, and when I was a young athlete, if they had said you're too fast or too tall, you're too strong, you're probably a boy.
What that would have.
Done to me as someone who was already so insecure about being taller than all the boys growing up and being you know, very physical and very good at sports. I got so much confidence from that. But also outside of sports, it was a lot to carry around as a little girl. If I was actively being accused by parents, which I can almost guarantee if I were an athlete right now in this day and age doing what I used to do, they would someone would just be pissed that I was good and try to say.
Something about it.
And that's what we're demanding, is for every single girl and woman who walks into a bathroom to be allowed to have people say I don't think this one's for you, regardless, regardless, And that's bad for trans people, it's bad for everybody. And to your point, it really is just rooted in a desire to turn away warranted fear and anger at men toward women.
Yet again, yes, what can we do to help?
What can we do if we on the sports side and in life side that want fairness, want inclusion, want everyone to feel like we're coming to good decision making on this and it's not just pick a side and stick to it regardless effect.
What can we do to help?
Yeah, you know, the first thing would be get more information and so you know, at a bare minimum, folks can follow me online at the Chris Mosure on any platform and I'm sharing information about my experience and about the trans community, you know, just with everybody. And I can also direct folks to other places to look for information. But having updated information and information from a good source is important. That goes to the second thing is check
your sources. If you read an article and it has an incredible anti translant, look at the outlet that is coming from, Look at the author that it's coming from. See if there are LGBTQ plus or trans voices in article. Look for that balance because if you are reading a one sided article that's an opinion piece, that is not news, that is propaganda. And so it's important to check your sources.
And then, you know, I think the third thing is that we can really at this time use our cisgender allies to speak up, and that could be something as small as accompanying your transfriend into the bathroom right now to help us with safety, always intervening when when transphobic comments are being made, and like stopping the conversation, not letting those comments pass, not letting transphobia become normalized, which it has been, and really using this opportunity to use
your privilege to call out things, particularly in sports. You know, call out the things that would improve women's sports. What are the real issues that you're facing as a CIS woman athlete, what would make your life better? And you know, I'm going to guess that the top five things that you're going to mention is not banning the non existent trans athlete from your team. It's going to be something that's actually going to move the needle for women's sports.
Yeah.
I have said on a previous show that I do think one of the simplest and easiest things to do is just to follow trans people on your social media. Have it be a part of your everyday scrolling and timeline to see not just the stories about them in sport, but what are they doing with their lives and how are they human beings? And just like the rest of us, Right, So, can you give us a couple more folks that maybe would be good follows that you enjoy following, whether in sports or otherwise.
Yeah, so I would follow Chase Strangio. He is an ACLU attorney who's about to be the first trans attorney at the Supreme Court. On the screen any case this week. I would follow athlete Ally is a great organization that posts information about our community. C C. Telfer is another great one, and you can actually go to my Instagram and I have a list of athletes that you can follow as well.
Perfect we will put it in the show notes for people to follow.
I just feel like if your feed is all people who look just like you and have the same lived experiences, a great way to just start to expand your mind and open up your perspective is to just follow a whole bunch of people that are very different from you and then see how similar you are, and then also learn from the ways you're different. Chris, You're just the
fucking best. You're always the best, And I'm so grateful that you came on to talk to us, and please reach out if you think of more ways that we can help, we're happy to share them on the show, and I'm happy to share them with people that I know to make sure that you all feel supported and safe. And I think you're one of the people posting about the need to get passports and other identification done as soon as possible, right, So let's let that as the
last message. I'm sure most people already know that, but just in case, what's that last message there?
Yeah, So we have a limited number of weeks before the inauguration, and in that period of time, it's really important for trends and non binary people to secure their documents and so making sure that they have IDs and passports and any other documentation that aligns with their identity prior to the new administration coming in, because it is so incredibly difficult to travel this country with an idea that doesn't match who you are, or to register for
your sports league or navigate the world. And so there's information on my page right now on my Instagram also pinned post of how folks can do that, and also for allies to be able to donate so that we can help offset some of the costs for trans people to do this in that set amount of time.
Yeah, expedited all that stuff awesome. Thanks Chris, We.
Love you, love you too, Thank you so much.
Got to go pay some bills when we come back. We share some Slice celebrations, some slicelebrations, some celebrices.
Just stick with Slice celebrations. Welcome back Slices.
Last week we celebrated our episode one hundred, and we asked you all to share something you're celebrating. We love this answer from certified Slice Pamela Mudway. She wrote, in part quote, my biggest accomplishment this past year was that I am now able to exclusive listen to podcasts not only about women's sports, but hosted by women who know
their shit. So thanks to Good Game, The Women's Game, the Late sub the Recap Show, and Laughter Permitted for providing this longtime female athlete and fan her fill of women's sports each week. Good Game, women's podcasters, Good Game women listeners. Few men who still think you own the space end quote. Such a great list of podcasts. We love those shows, we love women who know their shit, and we love men and women who listen to this pod.
In all other pots about women's.
Sports, Slice Aaron Raw also wrote in she said her three girls are kicking ass. In particular, the little one, Wren set six prs in nine races at her biggest swim meet. Her oldest Alex was accepted to her top college choice and earned half tuition paid, and she might still learn some more scholarships too.
We love that, right, mom, Congrats to the fam.
Finally, a different kind of celebrating from Slice Elizabeth Oakie. She writes, quote, a milestone my friends and I are working towards is saying no or opting out of plans. It's easy to say yes, but we're rewarding ourselves if we say no. We even made a punch cart. Whoever
achieves this gets an ice cream. Silly but fun end quote. Hilarious, And it's such a funny fact about humans that some of us have to work hard to say no guilty, and others of us would be well served to say yes more often and put ourselves out in the world with friends and strangers and just get out there more So, humans are funny. Thanks for letting us celebrate with the slices. And you know, we always love that you're listening. But we want you to get in the game every day too,
So here's our good game play of the day. We know that The holidays can be tough for some people, but for a lot of us, it's a chance to be with family, blood or chosen, to search for the perfect gifts, to plan and attend parties, give time to local charities and causes, and just you know, really soak up the love and all the support.
Of our communities. So we want to know if you have a great.
Holiday tradition to share, maybe something that other slices would want to adopt. I've got a few to share it, but I want to hear yours because I might.
Just steal some.
If you guys have some creative or fun or meaningful annual events or practices, I want to hear about them. I might steal them. Send them to me at Spain two three two three on Twitter, slash x at Sarahspain dot com on Blue Sky, or at Spain two three two three on Insta, or you can always hit us up on email, good game at Wondermedia network dot com, or leave us a voicemail at eight seven two two O four fifty seventy, and don't forget to subscribe or rate and review.
It's easy.
Watch a little party on your fingernails. Rating five out of five treat yourselves review man Do I love a holiday manicure?
A delicious espresso.
Martini tastes even better when it's picked up by a hand dotted with glittery goold nails. Wrapping presents is more fun with tiny little trees on every finger. Even biting off a glove to open up a poop bag and pick up my dog's turds is a little less terrible when a bright red manny pops out long live quote unquote self care. See easy you do it, Subscribe, rate and review. Thanks for listening. We'll see you tomorrow. Good Game, Chris, Good Game Learning how to say no h you? Jk
Rowling like for Real, for Real. Good Game with Sarah Spain is an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Production by Wonder Media Network, our producers are Alex Azzie and Misha Jones. Our executive producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan, and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Emily Rutterer,
Britney Martinez, Grace Lynch and Lindsay Crawdowell. Production assistants from Lucy Jones and I'm Your Host Sarah Spain.