Welcome to Good Game of Sarah Spain on Tuesday, November fifth, where we're reminding you one more time to make your voice heard and vote. On today's show, we're bringing you an incredible panel I moderated at last week's espnW Summit, featuring some badass leaders from teams across multiple women's pro leagues, plus college hoops storylines to watch, some NWSL loose ends, and a final ode.
To Spooky Season. It's all coming up right after this. Welcome back, my Lil Orange slices. Here's what you need to know today.
The college basketball season is officially underway and it got off to a rock and start thanks to number three USC and number twenty ole Miss, who played in Paris at the AFLAC we Play event. USC fought off a late comeback from ole Miss to grab the sixty eight to sixty six win, with Juju Watkins contributing twenty seven points and ten boards in transfer Kiki eria Fen adding twenty two.
Plus thirteen rebounds.
We'll have more on the return of college hoops in a little bit to soccer, where we wanted to tie up a couple loose ends on the NWSL regular season ahead of the start of the playoffs this weekend. So first, let's talk parody, or, more accurately, the lack of parody. The regular season ended with a forty point gap in the table. Number one Orlando finished with sixty points, while the last place Houston Dash managed just twenty. Per ESPN's Jeff cassoof it's the second largest gap in NWSL history.
Back in twenty eighteen, there was a forty eight point gap when the North Carolina team lost just one game and Gotham then called Sky.
Blue, won just one game.
There's also a huge gap dividing the top four teams in the league this year. Wheorlando Washington got them in, Kansas City are way ahead of everyone else. Number four Kansas City finished a full sixteen points ahead of the number five North Carolina courage to put that in perspective, last year, only thirteen points separated at the top ranked and last ranked teams.
In the whole league.
We'll see whether that gap in the table carries over to the playoffs during this weekend's quarter final matchups. Okay, moving on, We also got a shout out Kansas City's Temwa Chewinga for winning the Golden Boot in her first year in the league front of the Show, scored twenty goals in twenty five games to become the first African
born player to earn the honor. Tewinga entered the Olympic Break even with the Orlando's Barber Banda in the Golden Boot race, but it was straight up Golabaloza for Chewinga during the back half of the season. Banda ended up finishing second in the Golden Boot standings with thirteen points
and Portland Sophia Smith came in third with twelve. By the way, one of my favorite things on this show has been tem Will coming out and saying before the season started she thought she would score twenty twenty three, twenty four goals.
Didn't even realize that that would set a record, and she called her shot. It worked out.
Also, here's another wild stat. So Washington's Croubathune finished the season with the most assists in the league with ten, but she played her last game at the season in August. The Rookie of the Year candidate sustained a season ending knee injury in August while she was throwing out a ceremonial first pitch at the Washington Nationals game and yet still finish the season with the most assists.
That's damn good.
Finally, to golf American, Nelly Korda, clinched her first LPGA Player of the Year award on Sunday, given annually to the player who accumulates the most points over the course of the season. Yeah, the season is still going, but it is mathematically impossible for anyone to catch Korda, whose twenty twenty four season included six wins on the tour, including one major. It's Korda's first time winning the award.
We got a great guest lined up to chat all things college hoops later this week and get you set for what should be an incredible season. But since we were watching the first few games, we did want to give you one storyline will each be watching as the action unfolds. I'm gonna start with mine, my first honorable mention.
I know we're not supposed to do this, but the technical that Juju Watkins got in their game just reminded me of how stupid technical fouls are, especially at the collegiate level.
Let these bitches talk shit.
Okay, okay, My real actual storyline I will be watching actually does include Juju Watkins. So I'm looking for sophomore slumps and sophomore star. We saw incredible performances from last year's freshman class, and I'm wondering if any of those players are going to take a step back this season because expectations have ramped up for them, or opposing teams have watched a lot of tape on them, or maybe
even just team dynamics and rosters shifting. And then secondly, on the opposite side of that, we have these sophomore superstars who will be the breakout star that separates themselves from the pack. My money is on Juju Watkins. That's what happened last year as a freshman. But Hannah Hidalgo will have something to say about that. Madison Booker, even Malaysia ful Wiley, simply due to her incredibly flashy play and some of the highlights we saw last year. She
could really draw a lot of fans and eyeballs. So I'm looking for sophomore slump and sophomore star. Mesh, what's your storyline for me?
I'm so excited about the resurgence of the southern California schools, Sarah.
I want to take a.
Trip out to so Cal because to me is one of the most dangerous teams in the field. We know they just be ole missing that nail bider yesterday. They've got arguably the best player they've had since Cheryl Miller on their team and Juju Watkins as you just mentioned.
And last season was the first number.
One seed that they had in the NCAA Tournament since nineteen eighty six.
So they've got a lot of good things happening.
And then UCLA Corey Close has been building them brick by brick since twenty eleven, and they've got I think enough talent between returners and transfers that they can make an even deeper run in this year's tournament. They made it to the Sweet sixteen last year, but watch out for them. And if you guys don't remember last season, the last Pack twelve championship game ever, twot crazy nail bider.
Between those two teams.
So I can't wait to watch them matchup again.
That is a great one, such a fun rivalry. And I know people who live in Ohio who bought season tickets to UCLA Basketball to try to go as much as possible, especially when they're taking on USC bit of a hall but worth it? All right, Alex, what's your storyline?
All right?
I am super curious to see what Iowa's program looks like this year. So context, they finished last season ranked number two in the country. They've made it to the National Championship Game the last two years in a row. Obviously Caitlin Clark huge part of that. But they are entering this season outside of the top twenty five in the preseason rankings. Y'all know how much I love the record books. You know how much I love digging into
the stats. I want to know, is that a record for a team to drop that far from the previous season to the start of the new season. It feels like it should be a record.
I have yet to.
Find the answer. If you know the answer, please hit me up. But of course it's a new team. You don't have Kitlin Clark. You also have Lisa Bluter, head coach who retired, Jan Jensen stepping up taking her place. You also have two other seniors that graduated no longer with the team, so lots of question marks. I'm super curious also to see how Iowa fans respond to this Caitlin Clark list team, Because they announced last month that they sold out season tickets for a second straight year.
That is fifteenths of people going to every game. And that's what we want to see. That's what people always say, right with Kaitlyn Clark, rising tide lifts all ships. We want to see Kaitlyn Clark keep people engaged. And so what will that engagement look like if this team really isn't a top twenty five team. But also maybe they'll surprise us.
Yeah, that's a good one too. That's a really interesting drop. And you bet that's bulletin board material for them or what.
Do we call it?
Pinterests eating good? Pinterests eating good.
We're going to have so much more on this college basketball season to come, but coming up next. I got to be a part of yet another incredible espnW Women in Sports summit, and I wanted to share the panel
that I moderated on expansion excellence. There was so much good stuff in this conversation, from the importance of building team specific facilities, what to learn from men's sports and what to leave behind, prioritizing culture, finding leadership, mentors and more, and similarly specific stuff about PWHL expansion, how AU softball it's going to pick at cities and really fascinating stuff from kim Ang learning from the unfortunate end to her time as a GM of the Marlins. So stay tuned
for that. After the break, we're going to travel to beautiful Ohi, California together.
Welcome back slices.
Okay, I want to introduce you to the incredible women from my Expansion Excellence panel at the espnW summit.
So here's whore.
I sat down with President of the NWSL Kansas City current Raven Jemison, who joined the club in January after working in the NBA and the NHL previously, plus the first ever GM of the Golden State Valkyries Ohem and Nyanen, who joined the expansion team after spending five.
Years with the New York Liberty. Next up Kim Eng.
She's currently serving as a senior advisor of the Athletes Unlimited Softball League, which will begin play next spring. Also spent more than three decades in professional baseball, including serving as GM of the Miami Marlins, the first woman to be the GM of a major American men's professional sports team, and finally the PWHL Senior VP of Business ops Amy Sheer, who has a thirty five year sports career, including stops in the WNS, NFL and more, before joining that new
women's hockey league last season. Okay, let's all head out to sunny California and listen to that conversation. Okay, so much to talk about, and I want to start with you, Raven the casey has gotten so much conversation about the facilities. Rightfully, so incredible centerpiece in the community, going to be hosting the NWSL championship this year. Those incredible commitments get great publicity, but they also then need a long term strategy and planning to make them pay off.
I know that a lot happened before your arrival with the team.
You got there pretty recently, but are there any big lessons or takeaways so far when it comes to this ongoing process?
Big lessons? It is awesome to be the first. It is even better knowing that you're not going to be the last. So I'll start with the lessons that are running a stadium. Amy and I were talking about. Stadiums have been opened forever. I've been a part of other
stadium openings, but there's never been one perpose. It's built for women in the world, So What comes with that is a lot of people asking you what you learned, And the big thing that we learned is that operational excellence is the same regardless if you have a stadium purpose built for women or a stadium that is.
In a men's league.
I think what we really want to get across with the Current is that we're running a business and at the end of the day, we have got to make sure that people come back match over match, regardless if we're sold out this season. We have to continue that going into the next season. We have to create an environment where people want to come to CPKC Stadium for non KC Current matches. We are hosting the Big Twelve Women's Soccer Championship starting tomorrow, and that isn't a division
playing out in itself. So the lessons are how do we press press pause but make sure that we are learning match over match, but creating that environment so people want to come to something else that is not the Kansas City Current, because that's how the business thrives, that's how the business grows, and that's how we become again not just the first but the example of what is possible. So when that next team or next organization is looking to do this.
They had the blueprint.
Have we been to this stadium yet anybody? It's I'm dying to go. And when I love is seeing all the photos of the way it really takes over the community buildings, buses like wherever you are in case you know that that's where the current play which I love to see. Ohama nearly twenty thousand season ticket deposits for a team with no players.
Go twenty thousand.
I need to hear how the Valkyries have leveraged a city that already has great enthusiasm for hoops and a partnership with a great organization in the Golden State Warriors to come out the gates this strong.
Yeah, the Bay has been hungry for women women's sports. There's a legacy that has already been created prior to our ownership group bringing this team over, and I think that they're just ready to rally behind what we've already put out our brand, the women that are leading the team and just really excited to be a part of it.
Yeah.
I mean you mentioned the brand, and I know you're not focused on brand creation, but it's impressive just to already have us recognize Valkyries violent and see the community events and see the pop ups with the different local folks that are bringing enthusiasm. There's a real intention there, which I think is quite clear. How do you see the balance of being an independent Valkyries team while also benefiting from how much you can gather and learn from the Warriors.
Yeah, I think the benefit is it's abundant. Like, I don't know how else to say it. The sky is the limit. I think that the ownership group has done an amazing job of bringing us both together to know that we can strong in our own right and that whatever journey that we have, we can.
Be strong in it. Like there's no I guess like comparison between the two.
Like the legacy of the Warriors is the legacy of the Warriors and the legacy of the Valkyries is about to be written.
Yeah.
I love that.
I'm just happy that a team like the Warriors that set so many standards in the NBA, and players like Steph Curry who've been such great advocates for women athletes have this opportunity because I think I think you're gonna crush it already.
Are twenty thousand Gee's.
Kim the AUSL was inaugural season in twenty twenty five, will be a touring league and then the games will be in six to eight different cities, and then in twenty twenty six it will transition to a city based league.
Can you share how athletes.
U Limited Topall league will be different from previous AU Softball and then why this iteration will start on tour for its first year.
Sure in terms of how it's different, before we were we had a leader board points system, and now we're going to a more traditional format with teams, with head coaches and general managers. In terms of twenty twenty five and its touring model, we thought it would be a great idea to go out and basically test different markets.
So during this process we've gone to dozens of different markets in nearly twenty states, talk to them about AUSL, talk to them about what's different, and really tried to, I think bring a more of a brand awareness out there and so, you know, auditioning a bit and we'll get to see live what it looks like, you know, in these eight different markets and then and then bring it to you know, toaching them to cities, touching the teams to cities for twenty twenty six.
Are they tryouts then in these cities to see who responds?
Right, Well, I think it's more. I wouldn't call it a tryout, but I think it's you know, making sure that the mechanics are correct and that the support from the local community is what we want.
It's smart to learn the logistics in practice, as opposed to assumptions that, yeah, that's really smart. Amy, you joined the PWHL two months before puck drop of the inaugural season. There have been several pro women's hockey leagues before this one. What did you take from watching those leagues and how were you intentional about creating something that you think can be successful and sustainable.
So I think what's different about us is both sides of the house. One from a hockey perspective, we have one hundred and fifty of the best hockey players in the world. This is the first time all the hockey players that lead in terms of skill are all in one place. So every night the game is great. We've had no blowouts in season one. Every game is close. The level of hockey is unbelievable, So that's number one.
I think.
On the other side is that we're single entity and that really have not been done in hockey before. So we come to work every day, whether you're with the league or with the team, you have a PWHL email address. So while the teams want to win on the ice, I think off the ice, were one big, happy family and we all help each other. So every day everybody goes to work with the same goals, and that's to
move the sport of hockey forward. It is to bring fans into the games, engage them at the highest quality that we can, and get more kids into play hockey. So we moved together very intentional as a staff, with the same goals whether you're with the team or the league, and I think that's very different than how other leagues have approached their business. So it's nice that we're aligned and together we move forward.
And an incredible job of getting to the people and making them aware that it was happening, because records of attendance were broken left and right. To do that an inaugural season and to have twenty plus thousand people want to go and support is really cool.
Something that you mentioned on our.
Call that I thought was fascinating is Dodgers co owner and PWHL financier Mike Mark Walker said that there had to be a CBA in place before he would commit to financing a league.
Why was that so important?
So Mark and kimber Walter are our owners. They've invested quite a lot of money in the single entity, and I think having the CBA was important because it provides stability. So we have an eight year CBA and that we know as a league and as our teams, we have an eight year runway to set this league up, stand it up to be successful, and make it sustainable and continue to grow under this model. So I think it was really important just to provide that stability. There's never
going to be a walkout in these eight years. We're all going to come united, the players and the league to work together, So it's important to have that stability.
Yeah, are there any opt outs for the players because eight years is a long time if it continues to grow and get massive, and do they have any leverage in making sure that it continues to be on a benefit to both sides.
Yeah, that's a great question. I don't know the answer.
I'll do some research on that.
Yeah. I love the stability aspect, but we also know that the landscape changes so fast that making sure that you are indeed a big family working together allows the players to feel like they're advancing as the as the league advances.
Yeah, I will say that, you know, in working with Jane to day to day in the hockey ops crew, we talk to the union while they talk to the union multiple times of days. So there's the relationship there and it's close and the communication is always open.
Good Ohemma. Your first move as GM was hiring head coach. Now Ali Nakasse, take us through that process and how you lured her away from the Aces.
Yeah, lured sounds interesting. I want to say my first real hire was Banya Chennevitz. She was the GM of the London Lions and is currently our VP of Bath Operations, and so along with her, we had an extensive conversation around coaches. We talked to too many coaches, but the idea was to leave no stone unturned. International College, NBA G League w n b A. We wanted to make sure that we found the right candidate for us to be the inaugural head coach for an expansion is really tough.
There's gonna be a lot of pressure externally and so who is going to come in and bring a sense of calm, great competitiveness and also coach with their heart. I think for a long time athletes have been seeking the development, but they're also seeking, uh, the opportunity to be better people, and so why not pick a leader who can encompass all of that?
And so I'm.
Lucky that I was able to steal what's another adjective, higher? Higher, Let's know that that's a verb. Yeah, higher, Natalie.
I don't know if y'all are keeping track of how many coaches in the w n b A have parted ways, but Natalie is now the seventh longest tenured coach the w NBA hasn't coached.
A game, and we don't there yet. While we're on.
Some of your early moves, you're really involved in the Valkyrie's commitment to facilities, multimillion dollar facilities. Why is it so important to have your own space and why was that one of the first priorities, especially when we know that the Warriors facilities are brand new and awesome.
Yeah, it was done pre me.
I think that I always want to give credit where credits due our ownership group, mister Joe, as I fondly call him Lacub thought about this long and hard. So the investment of just getting an expansion team wasn't enough building a facility at the Chase Center. So we have our own exclusive locker room. The building's five years old, and it didn't it wasn't built with the idea of the Valkyries. And when they purchased the Valkyries, they said, well they need their own locker room. So other duties
is a sign and I'm construction manager as well. And then the Oakland facility I think is a true testament to us being a team of the Bay, right, Like we're not just the San Francisco team, We're not just the Oakland team.
We are the team of the entire Bay. And so to hone our craft in Oakland and then.
Be able to showcase it in San Francisco, I think it's an amazing Yeah.
And then just throw NAPA in there if you want to just figure out something to do there, I do almost every year. Raven, you arrived in Casey after three years with the Milwaukee Bucks. Before that, you worked in the NHL, MLB, NFL, every major men's sports league pretty much.
How do you take.
Helpful lessons from what you saw while keeping an open mind and being curious and creative about how women's sports can and should be different.
Yeah, I'll be clear, the job is the same, right, put butts in seats, bring brands along for strategic partnerships, and again make sure people want to come back match over match.
For your games. But I think that's where it ends.
The beauty of being in men's sports is it's an establishment, which means there's policies and processes and things are kind of built money that are built for you to succeed. And there's a comfort in that, and there's a way that you can look at what your impact can be in that space. And that's honestly why I'm here at the current versus continuing down the past towards hopefully what would have been a presidency in the core for major
men's sports. When you look at the impact that you can make in a major men's sports, you're going to move the needle slightly. You're going to improve evaluation for someone that is.
Likely not you, and that.
More bees in that valuation, which is exciting. Right, Leadership in that vein is exactly what I was looking for when I started my career in sports. But when you talk about the difference, what I looked at when I saw the opportunity here with the Kansas City Current after talking to our owners Angie and Chris Long, it took me ten minutes to hear the vision, to understand the vision, but also maybe have a little bit of panic, to be like, WHOA, this is really a startup. It's not
just the NWSL team. There's a stadium that's making history.
But it's a blank slate.
And when you talk about entrepreneurial mindsets and who we try to hire when we think about what the future is for the NWSL and this endeavor, we want people who are a little bit scared but also looking to be that entrepreneur because it is a blank a blank slate. So the difference is that the blank slate allows us to be creative, to take chances, to make mistakes, and we've made plenty, and you know, for those on my team,
I call those out hopefully probably too much. But we make mistakes, but we can quickly pivot and we can quickly learn because there is no place book and the beauty is we are writing it as we go. So that's the biggest difference.
Yeah, I love that you called it a startup because I've been preaching for like a decade about how we have to treat women's sports like a startup. That desire for immediate ROI that look at losses within a first year as if that's somehow predictive of the product is so frustrating. And so I love watching Kansas City make these long term investments and view it in that way, because that's the way we do anything else. That's the kind of business that essentially a women's sports team is
in this in this market. Okay, Amy, you've done consulting, marketing, business plans, bizdev for everything from MLS to rugby to the NFL. What are some of the biggest mistakes that you've seen teams make and how has that experience formed your decision making around this brand new thing in the PWHL.
I think it's less about mistakes and more about people just doing the status quo and not being bold when the situation calls for it. It's very easy to say, oh, this happens, you know, let's just do it that way year over year over year, and especially in sports, you just get into you know, and maybe you and I were talking, right, You get in your groove every year of what when should you start working on next season, and when you should you start advertising, And it's very
easy to fall into that groove. And so I think from the PWHL standpoint again that single entity ownership is we can do whatever we want. We make our own rules up. And so again I point the Jaina out in the crowd. But like going into hockey this year, she made some really cool changes to the rules of the sport to make it more entertaining, to make it more fun for the players, a little bit more physical, a jail break rule. Jail breaks the best thing ever, so.
Calivin what and tell everyone what that is.
So if you score a shorthanded goal, your player that's in the penalty box comes out, so it essentially ends the power play. So Jaina was very creative on the hockey side to make the sport I think more appealing for the fans and for the players. And on the business side, like how do we challenge the status quo for event presentation as well, and Montreal at least for
our league has done a great job of that. Intermission starts and the lights go down and a DJ comes out and Montreal turns into a dance party for two intermissions, and it's ultimately the funniest, scariest and craziest thing I've
ever seen in the scoring event. And so I think it's not about the mistakes, but more about taking the opportunity to be be bold and to maybe just be different and think differently, because sports a lot of times follows what you see in best practices for other industries, and we have to find a way to lead.
Yeah, when you look across the major men's sports and you try to think of like true innovation, it's that easy to find, no, because they are beholden to larger rules and structures and also the way things have always been done. Women's sports needs to take advantage of the fact that we can make our own rules in so many different ways.
I always talk about this.
I think it might have a problem, but Lewis to see the soccer team in England that started having prosecco on tap instead of just beer, and.
I was like, that is what I wanted a game.
I don't just want to have the same old options of like a pretzel and beer. I want you to serve you know, the mystics having their Mimosa's Brunch game package. Just start thinking about what your audience might want that's different than what's always been there, and it leads to really cool ideas.
I love jail break. I'm sensing a theme, Sarah.
Are you ten er seco?
You know, it's like.
There are so many of you here.
I haven't even for throwing up for me.
Kim AU has run differently than most any other pro league. The players are involved in almost every aspect of the game, from uniforms to where and how money is spent, to equity in the league itself, and it really is delivering on so many things we say we want, from maternal care to everything else and to what I was just talking about, innovating and doing something different than we've seen before.
As a former player yourself, what are some of the highlights in your opinion of how AU centers its players.
Yeah, no, really interesting. So we have something called the Players Executive Committee, and it consists of five players. We meet every week and we seek their input about everything from travel to accommodations to rules to you know, how how we're going to you know, frame the league. So
you know, every week we talk about items. The most impressive to me, and it was sort of eye opening given you know, my background as a general manager was that these player Executive Committee members basically recruit players from the outside to come play with us, so free agent market, and they also did they made all of the decisions with regards to the draft so huge and really really interesting, you know, drawing from their own experiences as players as
well as coaches and and you know, it's been really interesting for me to.
Watch when you have players and owners and executives working together on decisions like uniforms, resources, facilities, the players then can understand when you say, we're not capable of doing that right now unless we give up ex or why if you tell us this is the thing you want most, we'll do that. We're going to have to give up ex for why which one do you want to give up?
Instead of this constant feeling like someone must be trying to get one over on the other person, we're not giving that to you because we don't want to, versus that's not in our budget right now, or that's not feasible right now, having those discussions allows them to feel empowered in their decision making, but also trust that you want the best for them and you want them to get what they want, but sometimes that's not possible.
Have you noticed that in those conversations.
Absolutely, and I think that it's very much, you know, weighing the costs and the benefits, the pros and the cons and taking them through that process and making them understand, you know, all of it and what we as executives, you know, we sort of take for granted and we've done our entire careers, but making them understand that there are choices and like you said, giving them the power to those make those choices.
Raven, you wrote a book Congratulations More Than Representation, The Cheat Codes to Own your Seat at the Table. It's about being a queer, black woman executive in a male dominated sports industry. And I love this quote and an interview you said, sometimes there's a misconception that you have to look up to get mentorship, where the truth was we kind of looked across and said, how can we nurture each other and fill each other's cups such that we have a support system so when things get tough
we can lean on each other. Can you talk more about finding mentors and supporters across when there isn't leadership that feels representative?
Yeah, I check a lot of boxes.
So what that.
Means is when you're looking up and you're growing your career in sports and there's no one to look to, you tend to say, huh, you look like me. So what are we learning in this moment? So as we hopefully stay in this industry, as we grow together, we can share experiences. And there was no there were no black women really in the C suite none. There were
few women, but they also seemed unattainable. And I think sometimes there's a misconception that we're always trying to pick your brain and that you guys could probably attest to this on LinkedIn. I get so many let me pick your brain, and there are people that you don't know. So looking inward, look in your circle, look at the people you work alongside, look at your friends. Some time I look to my friends and look at their experiences in their industry. Because sports, while we are still a
very I think, is still a young industry. We're run like mom and pop shops a lot of us. There are more mature industries that we can learn from too. So we have a group of friends, some of whom are in sports. My circle is wide ranging for that reason, because there was no one that looked like me that didn't have They did not have the shared experience. I came out when I was an employee, and that, boy, is that scary, because you know, that's another checkbox for you.
And I needed a support circle that could tell me who I was outside of this industry. Because the other thing is you kind of get locked into what you do for a living, especially when it's attached to something cool like sports. Everybody wants to come to you for tickets, even though I don't know Taylor Swift, but you. You would be surprised how many people cannot Sarah.
I can't.
I can't. I can't.
I cannot.
I'm not I'm not that, but all seriousness, you become that thing two people. So it's also important to make sure you keep your circle tight and make sure that people are supporting you for the person that you are before and after you punch in your your proverbial clock.
Ohama, you spent five years with the Liberty.
Apparently all it took was for you to leave for them to win.
I mean, I helped set it up.
I'll do that.
Must have been must have been the path you said, Okay you for most recently the team's assistant GM. They are a great example of a team that took a big step forward due to investment. Clara Wusai and Joe said, came in and beyond money, you can invest and not have.
The right people, the right culture.
Do you have tips on how to handle things beyond money or when that money arrives, how to make sure that it can help make or break a franchise pivoting.
Yeah, I think it's people. Clara Wusai and Joe said.
They hired Jonathan Cole and he's a mentor of mine. He's a peer mentor of mine, great friend, and I was his first hire. And the both of us together just kind of looked at each other and we're like, we started in Westchester County Center, we lived in Brooklyn. How do we create a professional experience for athletes who deserve more than what they were given at the time.
Jonathan had all the tough conversations with ownership and the business team to say this is what our players need, and then he just continued to hire good people, selfless people, people who weren't.
A part of the liberty just to.
Check a box or to use the liberty as a stopping stone to go somewhere else. It's a destination and it's a dream job. And if you're ready to work, the world is your oyster. And so just being able to.
Really caught a by how you treat.
People and the empathy that it takes to know that it's hard and so what, let's just rock it out. I think that's the cheap code really is to find driven, purpose driven people to want to excel.
Yeah, it is.
All about culture. Someone said at the summit in May. Nobody leaves a job, they leave a culture. And that is a huge thing to remember when you're putting together a team of people, no matter how much money you have. Amy right before you got into PWHL, there was a little hiccup regarding team names and logos. There was a trademark search that revealed some possible team names, some of which got less than enthusiastic responses. So, your day two on the job and you say, yeah, we're not going
with those, we're starting over. How are you so confident in making that decision and telling them we're doing this over.
Well, I'm not saying I was com confident. I called someone you know from Alesian Park who was helping run the business, and I said, hey, like, do we have to go with these names? And she said, well, yeah, the ship is sailed. Why And I said, well, do we have logos, do we have team colors? Do we have a story on why these names? Are we really ready? And she goes, ship is sailed? So I was like okay.
So I hung up the phone and I went and called the friend of mine and who was going to be my first hire, and I called her up and I was like, I don't know what to do, like we're not ready and had nothing to do with the team names right, Like having a team name is a luxury, it's not I must have. I said, I don't think we're ready this and that that she goes, you have got to get on the phone and called stand right now, Like get on the phone and call stand Casting right now.
I said, all right, all right, okay, okay, I got
my marching orders. I picked up the phone and I said to Stan, like, I listen, I don't think we should do this and he said why and I said, well, like usually when you announced team names, you've got the logo, you've got the story on why you've got all these wonderful assets to tell you a story, and we don't have any of that, and so it's premature and I think we should just go buy our city names like soccer does it right, So it's good enough for them,
it's good enough for us. And to stands credit me said yeah, you're running the league. Go And I'm like really, and you know, because you're so used to, you know, sort of in their traditional sports models, running up the flagpole, running up the flagpole, run up the flagpole, and you're out of gas by the time you get to the last flagpole. And Stan just said go fine. I was like really, like yeah, jud leigue, we're not doing names, okay.
And that was the.
Conversation in the ship that sailed into Viking ship, one of those funerals where you just light it on.
Fire and let it go. Yeah, and it was sailed. Then we'll never see it again.
Yeah. Well the conversation ended and like, all right, well now you have to start the process to do sixteen names. And if they suck, it's on you. Yeah's great.
They don't talk. They're very cool, I mean to them.
And the one that.
Looks like a Taylor Swift logo is very brilliant marketing. You have that first TS night and you're going to sell out the place. Also, a really big lesson to be learned. I'm not naming any names pos nation, but you can realize that things haven't been received the way you intended and decide you want to take that fan feedback because in women's sports base things are a little different when it comes to relationship between the fan base and the leagues and teams.
Plenty of time to pull that ship back to Shore.
Keim.
Under your leadership, the twenty twenty three Marlins posted the fourth best winning percentage in the history of the franchise, earned the first full season postseason birth in twenty years. You oversaw all that success and then you and the team parted ways. What did you learn from that time and how it ended?
Hm, Well, so we parted ways basically after all of that. Uh, you know, the Marlins decided they want to restructure baseball operations and bring in a president of baseball ops over me that I would have to report to and so learn I would say, maybe reaffirmed or confirmed in some ways. You a few things you know number one in terms of you know, my ability and the you know, the the idea that a when could you know, lead a group of guys to you know, playoff, run and get there.
I think that was confirmed.
You know.
I go back to, you know, all the interviews that it took to get there, dozens of interviews, second interviews and all of that to continue to discuss, you know, what my vision was, how I would build the team, you know, how I would bring people together, et cetera, et cetera. You get a chance to do that, and then that was the answer to it. So but nonetheless confirmed the idea that a woman could do it and take a team to the playoffs.
I think, you know.
Secondly, you know again, so all of this happened within it like a two week spam, so where you know, we make it to the playoffs and then two weeks later, I'm being told this about this situation. So there was
a lot to process. But I think, you know, one of the things that was affirmed in my mind is the idea of you know, we just talked about it culture and how big a piece that plays in the success of an organization or team, you know, And I had the you know, I had the privilege to watch these guys every day, and you know, with intentionality what we did to try and change the culture and what we did to try and change the offensive mindset and
the way that we went about our business. And within a within a year, you managed to turn that around. And so that culture piece is huge.
Yeah.
Number three, I think, you know, I pride myself on having pretty good self awareness what I'm good at, when I'm not good at, what things I can handle, and what things I can't. And I think, you know, in terms of the self awareness, you know, as I thought through this decision, Yeah, because you're at you've gotten to the pinnacle of your career and now you're probably at
the you know, biggest disappointment of your career. You know, over those several days, just understanding what I was not going to be able to handle right, right, and so then you just make your decision on that, and my gut, well not my gut. My initial reaction was no, f and way, And that's what it ended up being for you know, after several days for you Yeah, yeah, no, thank you.
You just you could never do the parallel lines.
But I would love to live in another universe and be able to have seen if a man did exactly what you did, whether they would decide to bring someone that you would have to report you because my answer is the same answer as yours.
Yeah, you know number four. I think you know the realization and the affirmation that sometimes things are just out of your control, right, and it's just it's not on me, it's on now, right. But I think you know, it brings us to this moment where I'm part of this great women's sports movement, you know, and you know I have you know, I have a lot to learn, but I also have a lot to offer.
Yeah, well, we're excited you're here.
Yeahs a couple of last quick ones, Amy, Can we anticipate some creative outside the box events for the p WHL.
Can we break some news here?
Well, I don't know if we're breaking news, but I think we're doing a little bit of what Kim talked about. We're gonna do some barn storing this year. We're gonna have nine games across two countries outside of our main markets, so we'll be all over the US, We'll be all over Canada promoting the p WHL and playing games, and of course I think we're gonna work towards an outdoor game.
I think we're gonna work forward games in Europe. Uh so, So Jane and I have had some fun conversations and we're dreaming up some things that are big.
Any breaking records, any other news you want to break.
Yeah. As of today, we are officially starting the expansion process for the p w h L. Yeah, so starting probably in the next week or Solul will be sending out RFPs to several markets. Also taking incoming as well, but looking at the opportunity potentially feel two new teams for next season for twenty twenty five, twenty six, and yeah, looking for the right market size, right fan base, right facilities,
right economic opportunities. So a lot of research to be done over the next couple of months, but yeah, looking to continue to build the league and grow the number of teams.
Okay, speed round. I want you each to tell me you have a choice of one or the other. Either who you're watching in women's sports that's doing it right, or the thing in women's sports you're most tired of seeing or hearing, whether that's a certain kind of sponsor pitch, certain marketing approach, certain business decision.
I'll go.
The thing I'm tired of seeing is that there's a belief that women's sports is lesser than Thus the pitches are that this product deserves less than the dollars that we deserve and that we've earned. So if you're interested in supporting women's sports, know that all money is not good money, and that the case of Current, for example, will be very picky with respect to who we partner with because we believe we deserve the dollars that should be given to these world class athletes.
Love that.
Also, if you need help with that, I always preach about this, but sports innovation labs, multiple fan projects will give you the hard numbers.
That you need.
So you're not walking into those meetings with subjective arguments. You're walking in with hardcore data to why this is an economic opportunity that they should take advantage of. So use those because the people at the top don't give you know what about your subjective arguments. They care about the bottom line, and the bottom line is there. It is we have to sell it, right, kem.
I can answer both that yes, and then also we are watching the PWHL because we also are a single owner entity organization, and you know, there are some really interesting decisions that you know, typically are made at the team level, where you can make it the league level and you can create that minimum standard you know that that you need to keep a lead going for a number of years. So that's these are the guys that we're watching.
Love that, Oh Hamma.
I would just say that athletes that stand on something, I think, uh for far too long, shut up and whatever action it is that an athlete does, it's now taken away. Like our athletes are standing on things. They are advocates for the community, their advocates for themselves. So I think that that's one thing that I think that they're doing well. It's not a specific entity, it's not a specific.
No, but we can all learn from them. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, Amy.
I had the opportunity to meet Clara Ussai last week and I gave her a big hug and I thank you for finally providing the resources that the liberty deserved. And so it is very true. You give resources, and that's what happens, whether it's on the player side, whether it's on the business side. It allows you to make a difference. It allows you to have the staff you need to do everything that you need to not just take care of the players, but take care of your fans,
build a true business, and so resource matters. And it was great after so many years at the Garden of having to cut cut to finally see the liberty flourish because they were given the opportunity and the resources to do so.
Yeah, agreed, love that. Thank you all so much.
I could talk to you for another hour, but it's time to go another round of aplosties. Incredible women. It was another fantastic espnW summit. So much wisdom, so much insight. I'm hopefully going to pull some more sound for you guys in coming episodes, but for now we're going.
To take a break. Stick around, Welcome back.
Thanks to all of you who sent in your favorite women's sports inspired Halloween costs.
I made a little video you.
Could find on my Twitter slash x account at Sarah Spain or my Instagram at Spain two three two three.
You can go check out some of my faves.
Special shout out to all the dogs dressed is La that did it better than I did.
It's a rough day for me, but a round of a pause for you guys.
We love that you're listening, but we want you to get in the game every day too, So here's our good game play of the day. Listen to Cocoa Golf now. It's good advice generally, but especially right now. Take a listen to what she said during a press conference during the WTA finals over the weekend.
I think it's a.
Tough time for our country and a crucial time for our country right now. And all I can do is encourage people, especially young people to vote and use their ois. And you know, especially in my generation, I think there's a lot of people who don't see their power of voting, but for me, I do, and I can only hope that with my little bit.
Of message influences some people.
And obviously there's much bigger celebrities who are trying to do the brown work too. But yeah, there's a lot going on.
And while you're at at checkout USA Today columnist Nancy Armor story on the impact that another Trump presidency would have on women's sports. Here's a quick excerpt quote. The last few years have given us a glimpse into what could be the norm. Packed arenas and blockbuster TV ratings for women's games, While investors and sponsors clamor for a piece of the action, and women's sports have a regular place in our.
Conversations and consciousness.
The results of Tuesday's election could erase all that dragging us backward, just when women's sports are finally gaining traction. The protections of Title nine, both against sexual violence and for athletic opportunities, would be at risk if Donald Trump is re elected. So too reproductive rights in blue states. Even the way women are viewed and treated would shift dramatically if the raging misogynists returns to the White House.
End quote.
We'll link to Nancy's full column in the show notes. Also, a big thank you to those of you who gave us the great tips and tricks to calm anxiety as we are sweating through the results of today's election. Here's a couple of our faves. Claim Conahan said, listen to Snoop Dogg's affirmation song. Laura Bustamante said watching clips of the Liberty Season and celebrations.
Over and over again.
At Rockgertz said watching the SNL Cold Open with Kamala and Maya Rudolph on a loop and at Eastin eleven said that Apple News Today mentioned the San Diego Zoo is doing a free live stream tomorrow of cute zoo animals specifically to combat election anxiety.
Bless you, San Diego Zoo. I will be watching the live stream of animals.
A couple others you.
Guys mentioned, deep breaths, good thoughts, yummy food, edibles, watching college basketball, going to the gym, eating leftover Halloween candy, and something called cozy shack pudding. I don't know what that is, but I'm on it. We love to hear from you, so thank you so much. You can always shitt u up on email. Good game at wondermedianetwork dot com, or leave us a voicemail at eight seven two two o four fifty seventy. Don't forget to subscribe, Rate and review, y'all.
It's real easy. Watch Soup season rating five out of five. Hardy Bowls of Goodness review A big old bowl of Soup is a guy, God damned delight. Feel free to send me your recipes now it's your turn.
Rate and review. Thanks for listening, See you tomorrow.
Good game Raven Ohemma, Amy and Kim, Good Game, Coco Golf.
Than You, Election Anxiety.
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