Group Chat: Socially Acceptable Drama with Charlotte Wilder and Madeline Hill

Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're screaming a happy Valentine's Day. Whether you're single, partnered, or just loving yourself and don't need nobody else, We're sending you some show love and a special shout out to my Valentine,

Thanks for joining us, Sarah, Hello, how are you?

I'm good? Thank you joining her? The other co host of the Sports Gossip Show and writer of the newsletter in Personal Foul. She has previous stops at Ways, Hello, Sunshine, Entertainment Weekly, CIA, and more. She went back to school recently to get her Masters from Oxford, where she also did improv. She loves buttered noodles and fit checks. It's Madeline Hill. What's up, Madeline?

Hi?

Wow, the best intro we've ever heard. Also, the list of places I've worked is like, oh my gosh.

And I could have gone on, as you know, I stopped and I was like, I'm not going to.

Say all yeah, no, thanks.

I would like to do a separate show with you where we just do like pros and cons of every single place, and you're like, best cafeteria, worst colleagues, best HR policy, place to right. Yeah, well sure it.

Would be interesting, absolutely, Sarah.

Maybe we should wait until you change industries before we get too honest.

Wait until I start my Florist cookbook store in Maine, and then I will tell you everything perfect perfect.

I'm taking that as a promise down the road, when we're both washed and no one who cares anymore, we'll finally spill all the real tea beautiful. I love it. Madeline tell us how this show came to be the sports gossip show.

So this show grew out of my sub second personal foul. I found that there was a gap in sports coverage that covered stories off the field. I always joked that I would look at the Wikipedia Personal Life section of athletes during sporting events because I was like, who are they married to, who'd they get divorced from? What weird endorsement deals do they have? What does their Instagram presence

I think it was.

Yeah, you asked it was like your favorite piece of gossip from the twenty four season, and I was like, well, obviously, when James Harden skipped Joel Embiid's wedding of course, yeah.

Most important.

Yes, And then we were on a two hour phone call and we're like, wait, I think we could turn this into a podcast.

Yeah, And had you met before?

No?

Wow, I love that you just hit it up off. We just hit it off.

And then we met in person for the first time in September, which is kind of crazy.

Yeah, we started planning the show maybe June May June, because I think we both, you know, have been in entertainment and media long enough that when we got on the phone and there was the same level of like, Okay, you're buttoned up in this way, you want these certain things, like there's a professionalism that we both care about, and we were just like cracking each other up on the phone.

We were like, you know what, let's just let's do it.

Yeah. I love that. You know, Charlotte, one of the things I really love and respect about you is that you, since you entered the business, have been very willing to sort of stand in the face of some stereotypical criticisms of women that they aren't enough about x's and o's. You came in and you were like, I love sports. I also have never like studied them to be an expert.

I think I do think that that's you know, when I saw Madeline's newsletter, I was like, oh my god, she put a name to like what I've enjoyed doing the most in my career, which is sports gossip, which is the human side of this, and we you know, I I think like in twenty seventeen or twenty eighteen, I pitched an idea for a podcast called First Date, where I was like, for people who don't know sports but are going on a date with someone who loves sports,

It's very validating. Yeah, Yeah, And I also think there's something to be said for how you do it. When I heard someone describe professional wrestling like WWE wrestling, not wrestling wrestling, as soap operas for men, I was like, yeah.

Yeah, we always say sports news is just like a cover or for men to be it's okay for them to talk about gossip.

Yeah, it's socially acceptable gossip for men.

Like that's what sport like trades.

It is just like workplace drama that men are like, it's serious business, it's sports news, and it's like it's gossip in the same way the role Housewives as gossip exactly.

Also, Sarah, something that I think I did your show in twenty nineteen, and you said something that has stuck with me, which is the idea of how women, at least of our generation, it felt like, stereotypically weren't socialized to need to know things about sports. And I think because before I started working in sports, like almost ten years ago now, I wasn't in sports, I remembered what it felt like to be cut out of those conversations.

Four year old girlfriend. We also talk.

About the sport and the game and give qualifiers because so much of it's media for men feels like not for men. But that's kind of the undertone, right, like this is for guy and they don't qualify, and it's Andy Reid, it's not chiefs head coaching. Right, So many more people out than could come in if they just knew who these people were, right.

We do that on our show a lot because we both have people who are diehard women's sports fans and people who want to know more, and so if it's the simplest reminding them which player, which team, which sport, using the full name instead of always the acronyms, and that allows them in, it's so worth doing. It's so funny you said that. I literally just did an interview where I was talking to someone about how, despite being like a three sport athlete obsessed with sports, no one

So you say we can say the alleged, so.

We can have the conversations we want to have. Venness have it be about you saying it. I'd let you flex all those sports goss muscles to the fullest extent right here and especially today on Valentine's Day. So let's get into some stories that you've talked about on the show and maybe some you haven't. Your show covered the early days of Las Vegas acistar Asia Wilson and her

I love that. That's really good.

Yeah, yeah, it is a both a punctuation joke and a reference to the apostrophe in her name, which is great. What do you make of him being the first to wear her signature shoe and again, Charlotte, Oh my god.

I mean we've talked about this in the context of we love a supportive boyfriend, we love a man who look Asian Wilson, MVP of the w NBA bam Adebio, not the MVP of the m NBA. Good player, but like, she is so many worlds better in her sphere than

I completely agree. I reposted immediately. I was like, obsessed he's wearing the shoe. But then the part of me was like, is it bad that he got to wear her shoe in a game before she did?

Oh, that isn't hmm, that's not great.

No, I don't think.

I don't know that. I think it's just chronological. She's not in unrivaled the wnbas and in season. So I allow it because I love that it's part of the promotional push. But part of me was like, oh my god, I'm obsessed. I love this, and I'm also like mmmm. And then we still had a man getting to wear the shoe. Hurst that's fair, but that was hardened because he was in a game against a guy wearing Sabrina shoe and I was like, yes, bitches, take it over.

You know, we didn't get any NEPO hubby ideas. I feel like the narrative around the word NEPO is always with NEPO babies. But I do feel like it's time to change a narrative and let's have a conversation about more NEPO husbands in different industries, because I feel like the NEPO baby conversation is strictly in like the actor actress World Maya Hawk, Ethan Hawk's daughter Dakota Johnson, who's what's her name is, Donnie.

Melanie Griffin, don Johnson.

But I don't feel like there's enough of a conversation around the NEPO hubbies, and maybe even NEPO baby conversation in sports.

I mean it comes there is for football because we're all aware that somehow, and and like NASCAR and racing sports,

It's like, yeah, no, Brian Schottenheimer failed to get a head coaching job and then just got one at the age of fifty because his dad was also I've read about that one, but there's a lot I love the NEPO hubby yeah role because like, in the same way that Bam is supportive of Asia, it's in your job description you were an assistant coach and she's the coach, right, so it means that something's got to be working there in a way where he's like, cool, yeah, I'm supporting you.

Yeah.

There is a recent example though, of a NEPO hubby is Madison Keys, the tennis player who won the Australian Open. Her husband Bjorn is her coach, so that I feel like it is an interesting dynamic and also a NEPO hubby adjacent storyline.

Right, because how are we to be sure that he's the most qualified, which is what we do for women every time they get a job by relationship to someone right is good at tennis.

We can't even say his last name, so I.

Don't know anything. I don't even know I don't even know l I don't know anything about Bijorn, and I don't want to slander him, but I do want to give him the same treatment that like every woman has ever gotten when she's hired for anything, Like, remember me when there was the first ever quality control coach in the NFL and everyone suddenly not only knew what a quality control coach did, but also knew she wasn't qualified despite having like thirteen years in the NFL.

Right and like having quality control in her title. Yeah, that's her whole job, right, qualified to qualify?

Thanks? Yeah, so sorry Bjorn, but like you have questions, right, questions. On one of our recent shows, we noted the retirement of Scottish soccer player Jen Betty and mentioned that she and US women's national team great Ali Kreeger medium launched their relationship on Instagram. Jen posted on her insta story around Thanksgiving, thankful for you, Happy Thanksgiving, My love at Ali Kreeger, and Ali reposted it and added, you have no idea how do we feel about Medium?

I love a medium launch, especially because I feel like that medium launch in particular knowing the history obviously with Ashlan Harris, her ex wife, where I would argue that that relationship ended in a very public fashion. Ashland very quickly dated so Bush after we all know this. Sofia Bush wrote that big essay for Glamour that that was a very public extreme hard launch to the nth degree. And in contrast, Ali's like, I'm not doing that. I'm

Everything is circumstantial, right, Like, And I think that there. I liked how organic this was where it's Thanksgiving and Jen, which is sort of a she's you know, from the UK. For her to say happy Thanksgiving is sort of playing on Ali's turf already because Ali's American, and you know, it's like, I'm just posting this on my Instagram because this is how I feel at the moment, right And and for Ali to then be like, you know what, I'm not going to do the thing where I'm scared

It's a master class.

I think Ali Kager has been a masterclass in public relations to this whole thing.

I completely agree. I hadn't thought about the Thanksgiving part. I also can picture them all like sitting around at the house and saying like, on Thanksgiving we all go around and say what we're thankful for and Jen being like, what a lovely tradition.

Yeah, thankful for you.

And then you know what I mean like, and then that's spurring this sort of public acknowledgment. I do agree that Ali has mastered somehow silence at every turn when the natural instinct would be like, hold up, you are oversharing or you are getting to say your business and I'm not. But because she's been quote unquote winning throughout where most people have sort of sided with her in this split, her silence has just furthered the feelings of

Yeah, you know, I it's very interesting to me because like for our show, for our jobs, we need people to be messy, we need them to talk, we need them to really not be good at pr because also we do have an ethos where it's not you know, gossip is in the title, but it's not a salacious show. You know, we're not out there airing people's business or if someone is a private person, we're like, okay, god, but if you're talking, then it's a fair game to

But then, but I don't want athletes to know that.

We need them to keep talking, keeping and everybody.

If everybody did that, it'd be so boring. So you're welcome. I'm not exactly messy, but I am always talking about while we're on the topic of launches soft, medium and hard Unrivaled player and New Phoenix Mercury player, saw too, sobbly hard launched a relationship that she's not in here she is doing an interview on the bench in the middle of an Unrivaled game. Take a listen. She was actually supposed to have off today and be you know

Although it is funny that Unrivaled that which is in Miami, and it is like Miami is the hub of other people hard launching other people's relationships because the mayor of Miami accidentally hard launched Asia dam when she gave them the key of the city.

Like someone's in the water.

Something they know that heart Okay, I think yeah, definitely a lot of okay, yeah, definitely a hard pass on hard launching someone else's relationship without their permission. I mean that is, unless you're Perez Hilton, which I don't think Perez Hilton should be.

Doing that either. Well, that's a name from the past throwback.

I'm like, don't do that unless you have been given permission, don't do that. And also I feel like that goes against media training one on one what are we doing here?

People? Yeah? What are we doing?

She that was a good idea.

I would have been so mortified if I were sat. She probably felt so bad.

She probably thought it was like out or like didn't realize that, Like the way they talked about it around the dinner table at Unrivaled didn't mean that everybody knew. Yeah, oh my god, hilarious. See. I would say in general, probably don't launch other people's relationships, although again, please keep doing it. Ye stop.

It's also for us don't do it, but don't not do it right.

I don't know if y'all have ever listened to Jocular. It is an absolutely hilarious podcast about women's sports hosted by three queer folks, and they suggested that they would like to see an Unrivaled singles show, a reality show taking place in Miami during the eight week season. They rattled off like as many of the queer participants that they could find and guessed at a percentage well above fifty percent, and thought it would be fun to film.

Show, I think, I mean, I would kill for that for the wa But because Unrivaled is in one place, it's it's perfect.

Yeah, it's perfect. It's a perfect setting. I don't think there's anything better. No, No, I think that's it.

And it's Miami.

So again, yeah, they're going out, they're.

Going out, they're going club, and everyone's wearing as little clothes as possible because it's hot out.

It's Miami, it's Miami, it's twenty all the time.

It just feels that feels right. But I would also watch a women's footy version of this show.

Oh, I was going to say that that would be my second one. I feel like if they were going to do a women's soccer version, I actually think i'd like it more during the World Cup. Yeah, same, because they're all kind of in one place. I mean, I want a dating show about the Olympic village, period.

Of course, they would all have to be after competition ends. I don't know anyone that's messing up their Olympic dream for some tale, So let me show that tale. Like all the Olympians I've talked to and I have had these conversations. That's like one of the first things I ask Olympian friends is like, I just congrats on whatever boat. Tell me about the Olympic village and the condoms and how much sex you had and were they from your team or did you find athletes from another team? And

Well, that's what's interesting me about the idea of this unrivaled dating show is that it would get things would bleed onto the court in a way that like, and I'm sure they already are like, I'm sure some of this is clearly happening, but like I feel like the league would be like, yeah, no.

We're not gonna we can't.

This is a little too close to our actual product, and.

If they knew we were watching it, they might get a little messier. Like if they know now it's behind the scenes, they have to pretend on the court, whereas if they know it's out there, then it's like, you know.

I did see a tweet yesterday before the Super Bowl where someone was like, I wish that sports were like reality shows where they have confessionals halfway through, So like you could do that with Unrivaled, Like you could see it, you know, halftime, and you take one of them aside and you're like so and she's like, well, I had to pass the ball. We're in a fight, and I'm pissed. But she scored, so I guess that's good.

I mean, it's kind of like those a brilliant idea. Yeah, yeah, they already do the in game interviews with coaches. Yeah, I just add another layer to it.

Yeah, you're welcome.

This is a brilliant idea. And I'm sure they were thinking about that because they were doing close ups of all the players on the Chiefs as they were getting absolutely routed.

Right, it's Chris Jones just crying and yeah, you know, someone said Patrick Mahomes looked like a haunted porcelain doll like this dick in his eyes.

We said, he looked like you saw a ghosts.

Yeah. Yeah, that confessional midway through, so you're getting you're getting beat like thirty three to nothing. It would be incredible, It would be good. Okay, So the women's soccer show that would work for that is the off season. Midge Purse executive producer and was a member of the players that were in this house again in Miami. I don't know if you watched it, but it was fantastic. Not a lot of like, you know, the dating stuff in there,

You just blew our You just got to sit the first time a whole episode for you? You know this is so you sent us this link before the show. I hadn't seen it, and I typed in Ali Krieger and my mind exploded because Jen Batty, she's got a couple ex'es on there, like especially the older the players are, the more time they've had to So no, this, what you just said was crazy.

Yeah, maybe that for every every league?

Could we do you imagine fair or foul though? Making charts like that? First of all, Madeline, if the connections are based off rumors, do we need to have a different color line or like a squiggle?

Yes, I think a squiggle because that feels more questionable.

Right, It's like a little bit more fair, Like, we know we're a little bit pushing it by post by posting this rumor, but also we're telling you it's a rumor, take it with a great assault.

But I think they should be included. Yeah, yeah, because it is important for cultural.

History, yeah, anthropological reasons. Yes, But Charlotte, what if we don't know if the players are out or.

Not, that is probably not great because that should be something that is completely on their terms. So I guess if there's a rumor that involves someone who you're not sure how public they are about their sexuality, maybe we hold.

Off or slide to their DMS and be like, pardon me, yeah, are you comfortable with acknowledgment that you are queer by gay? Whatever?

Can I put you on this chart?

And they'd be like what They're like, no, please, don't put me on a chart, on any chart.

I don't care what I am.

But what if you were single and you were struggling to meet someone and you were like, maybe if.

I'm on the chart, Oh yeah, I think that chart probably has facilitated more relationships than we realized.

Or if someone is looking into someone they're newly dating and they're like, let me see who else they dated. I can reference a chart.

Can you imagine if you had that chart just for people like you in your own life, in your own life, if you're like, oh this, like, oh god, that sounds.

I didn't need it. I met like seven people my husband used to date, like within the first two months of dating. I'm like, what's your deal? Like why are they all always wherever we are? And then I was like mad because I'm like, damn, I dated all my people in California, so you don't have to run into any of them, right, And then later one of them started working next to our apartment building. I was like, I didn't mean to manifest that that was Yeah, it

Yeah.

Yeah, this is the way heterosexuality works for them. There's a whole uh don't like the guy, but the bit was good. Louis c k bit of like, if you're a tall dude, you just walk into a party and be like Uh, yeah, who wants to be like this is that simple? Anyway? This chart is truly mind blowing to your point. Uh, I can't, I can't decide. If we'll put it in our show notes, you'll find it. You'll be able to find it yourself without us facilitating your access to it, and you could plug in some

Yeah, you can tell very quickly if someone has a type from that chart. From that you can you can also the tech behind it kind of blows.

Yeah, it's someone code that chares.

It's incredible. I love gosh, this is this is the best possible Valentine's Day conversation we could have. Do you guys have any new, fresh and steamy goss that you haven't even talked about on your show or that you want to break right here on the show.

Oh god, Uh, I think we kind of emptied the Chamber.

We do always talk about Jordan Hudson, but I don't know if you are. Are you well versed with Billeck's girlfriend?

Oh? Yes, and I'm troubled for both of them.

We are exactly sure what's going on. But I think what's been more interesting, and we were just talking about this, is that she was in the Dunkin Donuts super Bowl commercial with Ben Affleck, which is just such an incredible ascension to be in a super Bowl ad with Ben Affleck.

Yes, the okay, the Boston and me like imploded in on itself when I saw that, because I was like, also.

Didn't know Jeremy Strong was from Boston, didn't either, wild.

But I think that there is she We said this on the show after the super Bowl.

But she's playing the game and she's winning it.

Right.

For those who don't know, this is a twenty four year old I want to say, grad student.

It's unclear.

It's unclear. Maybe I'm just thinking that because there are a lot of jokes about how Bill Belichick took a college job so that he could get her into the school. Yeah,

Oh yeah, she yeah, she is performing. She is performing for those cameras every chance she gets.

We think she's executing on a plan here with.

A little better playbook than Bill.

Truly, she's calling the show.

She's on the offensive, and it's working, and it's working, working, and it's working, and it's just wild to see the difference. As Madeline said on our show, Bill's just down bad he's down bad.

He's down bad. Somebody said, it's nice to see Bill Belichick getting his granddaughter, I mean girlfriend a job in the new Duncan commercial. Now listen age is just a number. Well sure, but also for me you said she's winning, yes, in some aspects. And also what I always think about, and this is a mean thing to think, but I'm just gonna to, you know, be honest, since this is the Sports Gossip Takeover and I'm a completely different host

No game she is.

She's winning the game that she is playing for herself, is how I would put it. She set out, she made a little board game, and she's playing it, and.

The rest of us might not play that game. I also do.

I just I can't help but feel for Bill Belichick's ex, Linda Holiday, who he was with since two thousand and seven. Bill met Jordan in twenty twenty one, and Linda and Bill broke up in twenty twenty three.

And it's like the timeline.

I don't know, and so I and she, you know, she was around, she was we had to Bill Belichick Foundation together for you know, and.

He has three kids. I guarantee they're all older or older there, I am. Yeah, that's listen to your point. It's a sort of hate the game, not the player. So I do hate that game, and yet the player is thriving in it, And anyone who plays that game has to clearly not have that big of a problem with the whole sex, with the old person part of it, which for me would be the reason I don't get in the game.

Yes, yes, I think we're all on the same page.

The reason I would not pass go I would not collect two hundred dollars.

On this show, we always tell people we wanted to get in the game every day, but not this game. No, feel free to pass on this. Everybody, go listen to the Sports Gossip Show as you can tell these two co hosts are a blast and they're giving you all the good stuff that some of which we can't talk about here, but we sure got into a lot of it. Thank you both for joining us. This was super fun.

Thank you so much. Sarah. We love what you're doing. Love the show. And anytime you need someone else to say stuff.

We're here. Oh yeah, oh, this will be perfect. We'll have a segment where I just outsourced things that I want to say and then you guys pop in and.

Say, yes, yeah, exactly. Just text us be like can you say this and this, and.

We're like, absolutely, I heard a rumor from Sarah exactly.

Thanks for having us. Thanks ladies, Thanks so much to Charlotte and Madeline for joining us. So fun. We got to take another break. When we come back, we hear all about who use slices? Want to send love to this Valentine's Day, don't go anywhere. Welcome back slices. It's time for another What the fact we mentioned in yesterday's show that the US Department of Education released a statement announcing that Title nine does not apply to name image

This year, I'm sending Valentines to Stei and Fee for creating Unrivaled. I absolutely love it. It is getting me through the winter. I'm grateful to them for creating it.

We are grateful to them too. All right, here's Amanda from Denver.

I would like to send my Valentine's love out to for her college women's basketball coach, Vivian Stringer. When I was sixteen, I was in a car accident and I sustained a spinal cord injury, and at that time I was being recruited to play college basketball. She was coaching at the University of Iowa, and while I was in the hospital, she sent me a handwritten letter with a note of encouragement. Due to my injury, it was pretty clear that I wasn't going to be a archive or

Big fans of coach Stringer over here too. Her memoir Standing Tall, a Memoir of Tragedy and Triumph, is one of the books on our Good Game Book Club list. You should read it if you haven't already. Moving on, let's hear from.

Jacob Hi Sarah, I'm the biggest how her Felt fan on the Internet, and I wanted to give my Valentine platonically to her. I wanted to tell her how much he inspires me and how proud I am of her and her accomplishments both with the Spirit and with the national team. And I can't wait to see her do even more great things going forward.

All right, last Valentine, my name is Veron roh.

My platonic roundtany is for Katie Radeki. My mom bought me her book Just add Water because she says, I'm happy as skipped and chlorine. I started this season with the goal of getting one race two silvery time, and I'm close. I've got four grand and I found out yesterday my coaches are moving me up levels anyway, Kaye has to work two day goals and I am y'all.

Can you believe the Diana Ross called into the show and she's got endless love for Katie Ledecki. Turn up the sunshine, y'all. What a treat. Thanks again for sending us those voicemail slices. We know we asked for those specifically, but don't be afraid to send them just any time when there's something on your mind. We love to hear from you, and if you're come with it, let us know your name and where you're from. We love that you're listening, but we want you to get in the

Oh?

I definitely do. I want to see a show about all of the relationships between US and Canadian women's hockey players for people that are new to the space. Maybe you don't know this, but like the US and Canadians they hate each other, like so much they hate each other, and yet we have at least three relationships between players that played for their respective teams and then married or dated across the border.

Had kids, And like, that's a good one.

I want to see it kind of like a reality show. But I would also really settle for a daytime drama like with reenactments and like.

Riah, oh boy, oh pucks and gay shit. We do need some more coverage on that, Like the rivalry between country is so much bigger than just like playing on different WNBA teams. Like that is good. I want to see that too. All right, y'all, don't forget to subscribe, rate and review. It's really easy. Watch the voice memo we got from Slice Joey's Daughter Melina rating five out of five Heartbursts review. As soon as we heard it, we just knew it needed its own section in the show. Listen to this.

Hello, my name is Melina Melamelo. I'm ten years old and i'd like to wish a very happy Valentine's Day to Skylee Diggan Smith. She's my favorite basketball player and I hope to be as talented as something.

Well, Melina, you've got a fan in me, and I've got no doubt that you can be like SDS. You could do anything you put your mind to, and the platonic Valentine's weren't supposed to be a competition, but you win. Thanks for sharing. Now it's your turn to rate and review. Thanks for listening. See you next week. Good Game, Charlotte and Madeline. Good Game are platonic slice Valentines. You people who put women's sports media members in a box. Like