Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're writing out twenty twenty five a bunch of times to train our brains. It's always embarrassing to still be writing the wrong date come March, so we're prevenent advance. It's Monday, December thirtieth, and this week we'll be running back some of our favorite interviews from twenty twenty four. No news, no special segments, no plays of the day, no rate
and review, just good old fashioned conversations. Up first, my conversation from August with American cross country skiing star Jesse Diggins. I caught up with Jesse during the Summer Olympics to get her thoughts on the pressure of competing on the biggest stage in sports.
Now. These days, it's.
The height of Jesse's competitive season. The cross Country World Cup is in full swing, and as of this recording, our girl is currently leading the overall World Cup standings. By the time y'all hear this, Jesse will be in the middle of the grueling Tour to Ski, which features seven stages in two cities during a nine day window.
We'll link to the full Tour to Ski schedule in the show notes, so you can tune in and watch Jesse dor Thing make sure to wear some glitter and solidarity that conversation than coming up right after this.
Stick around joining us.
Now a three time Olympic medalist, including winning the first ever gold medal for the US and cross country skiing, she's coming off the best ever seasoned by an American in the sport, highlighted by her overall World Cup title win.
She's the author of Brave Enough.
She's met with lawmakers on Capitol Hill to advocate for climate policy, and she's an ambassador for the Emily Program, an organization that provides specialized treatment for eating disorders. Fun fact, she wears glitter every time she races. It's Jesse Diggins, what's up?
Jesse, Hey, Sarah, thank you for having me, Thank.
You for coming on. This was such a good idea.
This was actually producer Alex's idea, our Olympic Expert, because we thought it would be really good to have an Olympic athlete on who can talk about the Olympic experience well at a safe distance from it.
Right.
So interviewing the athletes when they're about to leave or when they're about to compete means they're in this very specific and particular mindset, and we wanted some perspective that's not clouded by training or nerves, or expectations or all of the stuff that comes with trying to just get through one of the biggest moments.
Of your life.
So you're in your off season technically, so we're getting you at a good time to talk about the Olympics. And I want to start with the basics, Like, what do you think the number one thing is that fans at home don't understand about the Olympics.
Oh gosh, I think this will be dependent on your sport. But for most of us, you wait for four years for the world to watch what you're doing. But you haven't stopped.
You haven't been.
Frozen in time from one Olympics to the next. So you're still training, you're still competing all winter long, and once every four years your country just goes ballistic and everybody's watching and all the press of the world.
Is heaped on you.
And so like we raised, I raised thirty something times every single season on the World Cup circuit. We have World Championships, but in the US it's like the Olympics or nothing. And so the amount of pressure and lights and attention and eyes that are on you for this one moment every four years. It is extremely hard to perform under that. And when you can pull it together and perform in the one moment it matters, it will actually change your life.
And so it is I mean, it's not an exaggeration to say.
That it's life changing pressure that you're carrying on your shoulders and you have to be able to relax and do what you do underneath that. And so I think that's just something that it's hard to describe that kind of feeling unless you've been through it. And I think it definitely changes games to games as well. So my
first Olympics in twenty fourteen, I was there. I was the baby of the team, and I kind of knew in my sport you will have, probably if you continue to train hard, have multiple Olympics.
So for me, I was there to gain experience.
Now, if you're a young gymnast, you might be eighteen, really really young, but that may be your one chance and you are expected to perform in that moment. So I think it's also really interesting sport to sport.
I think it changes, well, it's not just performing in that moment to change your life. But that's also when all the interview requests come in, all the sponsors, So like you're managing the busiest time of your life at the time when anyone else would say, I'm going to put those aside for a couple months and come back to them once the work is done. But no, it
all has to happen at once. Sports are about muscle memory, preparation, training, doing everything you can before the actual events so that when you get there you can just focus on performance.
How hard is that to do at the.
Olympics, Like, how different is it competing there versus every other competition.
I think in some ways it's no different, Right, It's just another race. You do your same warm up, you do your same process of ski selection and wax testing and all of that. It's all the same thing, and then you find comfort in that routine, Right, mean, this thing that I always do. I've done this since high school, Like I put my skis on one at a time, like I've always done it this way. Nothing is different, just because I'm wearing a bib that has the Olympic
rings across the chest, which is terrifying. But in many ways there are a lot of different things. Like you said, the media attention that asks the hype. All of a sudden, you know, you go from feeling like ah, like nobody is really watching, to like, wow, there's multiple cameras focused on me at once at all moments, and that that does change when you suddenly feel the eyes on you.
And I think a lot.
Of it is simply focusing on what you can control and trying to not block out the noise. And this is something that we've talked about in the sports psychology realm, Like if I tell you do not think about an apple, and under no circumstances think about.
It, thank you, it was really it looked delicious.
Think about it.
And what if I say, go ahead, think about an apple, but still ask me your interview questions.
You can do both.
But if you're so focused on trying to block this out, no, I'm not thinking about it, I'm not seeing it, it's not there. That's so much energy going towards blocking out that noise that you don't want.
And so I think we've shifted.
The model to yes, there's a lot of lights, Yes there's a lot of pressure. Of course, there's a million cameras and there's a lot of interviews, there's a lot going on, and I.
Can still focus.
I love that. I love that. It's just like it's just like meditation.
They'll always say, if you get a thought, don't try to push it out.
Just let it float by like a cloud. You see it, but it's not for now, and you let it float away.
I love that's such a good perspective for literally anything, not just competing in the Olympics.
Like, I love that.
What is it like watching the Olympics versus competing in them? Because I lose my mind, I cry, I tense up my hands. I realize that my body hasn't moved from like a position for like thirty minutes because I'm nervous. And that's just watching like you're actually able to empathize so much better with what they're going through.
So how does it feel watching?
Oh? Man?
I mean I was in tears watching both gymnastics teams, the women's and the men's, and seeing especially seeing how hype the men were for each other, just this genuine like jumping up and down and the amount of pressure on I almost called him Clark Kent because.
Of the classes. But you're under pressure. Our last guy to put.
Stephen Kornaky look alike. He's getting a lot of comparisons Clark Kent, Stephen Kornaki, He's getting a lot of them.
Yeah, I mean I love it, But like, thinking about that, it was funny because I was talking to my husband and I was recapping the whole thing because he couldn't watch while he was at work.
And I was telling you, like, man like Steven had to sit there and.
Wait and no, like I've been brought here to do one thing and I'm the last guy to go.
And my team is counting on me.
My whole country's watching, the whole world is watching, and I have to perform in the one moment it matters. And then he did it, and it brought me to tears, Like I was jumping up and down on the couch. And it was funny because Wade was like, well, you had to do that too in twenty eighteen, like you were anchoring the team. It was the one moment it mattered.
The whole country was watching it. And I was like, yeah, but it's not the same, and he was like, yeah, it is the same, but like when you're watching.
It, it feels like how in the world. Do they do that? How is this possible? How can they make this happen? How do they pull this off?
That kind of pressure must be crushing. But then when you're in the moment, when I made myself be like, oh, he's right, Like I thought back to when that was me having to perform under that kind of pressure, I wasn't thinking about the pressure. I wasn't thinking about metals, was not thinking about results. All I was thinking about is my process? How do I ski as fast as possible?
And I think if I had stopped to think about, oh my god, my teammates, hopes and dream for our entire career on the line here, I probably would have cracked. But that's why I would just focus on how do I ski? Like what technique cues? How do I do this? And so I think being incredibly process focused and only thinking about the things that are within your control is so so helpful. And like you said, it's for life, not just for the case.
Yeah. But well you mentioned control though, and I think that's part of it too. It's like, as the athlete, we've been in those positions and all you're thinking about is I'm in control of what I'm doing.
Now and what can I control.
It's do I do all the things I've prepared correctly, Do I put my best effort forward? And then as an athlete, you know, sometimes that means you win at sometimes it means you don't. When you're watching zero control, zero control over anything, you can't do anything but watch and hope, and that feels so much more tenuous than when you have the power to do it. Even though people who aren't athletes would be like, that's crazy. The
pressure's on you, but you're not thinking about it. You're like, here's what I do and I'm gonna I'm gonna do it. I also love what you said about the emotions that the mail j has had for each other. There's a great episode of Welcome to Wrexham. I don't know if you watch it, but they get into detail about how sports are one of the few places where men are allowed to feel all of the emotions.
We let them cry.
We let them hug each other, we let them support each other, we let them butt slap each other without being weird about it. We let them like support and be angry and be sad and be defiant and be supportive.
Like it's just really cool when we think about the ways that we do limit men in ways that we often talk about with women but don't with men, and how sports is a space that we can stop doing that, which I just when I was watching that gymnastics team, I was thinking the same thing, which is so cool.
On that note, I have a question for you.
Do you think we allow women to experience the full range of emotions in sport as well?
I think it depends on who's watching, right.
I was thinking about that with Mikayla Maroney and how she went like viral for being disappointed in her metal and making a squirmy, you know, kind of smirky face, and how when men are disappointed, we're like, he's so competitive, he'll settle for nothing but the best, And when women do it, we're like, she should be grateful that she's got a medal, She should smile, You should smile more so.
I mean, I think there's a range of dumb shits and cool people who will let any kind of person male, female, non binary be the full expression of themselves, and then there are people who are going to be assholes either way. But I do think at least we're really trying to acknowledge how we do that to women in ways that have changed society, and we're not quite there, I think in talking about allowing men to feel those things in ways that you know aren't restrictive.
Yeah, because that it just it made me think a lot, like we don't allow men to cry normally, and in sport it.
Is okay, even fans self allow.
Women to be aggressive competitive and in sport it's sometimes okay yeah, but not always. And I think it's just fascinating. I think we have a long way to go in both ye, in both sides of the equation, like greed to allow people to express their full range of emotions and sports should be a safe place to do that. And I think we can still work on that. And so I think absolutely on both sides, on both.
Sides, and that's something that the Olympics can help with.
We got to take a quick break plenty more with Jesse Diggins coming up right after this. In your experience at the Olympics, how much do the athletes talk to each other, either comparing their experience in terms of like demands of the sport or timing of their events, Like, oh man, you get to go first week and then spend the rest of the time partying, or oh, my events last and I have lots of time to get
settled and prepare and get on the time schedule. Or you got to walk in the opening ceremony, Oh I didn't because my event was at the same time, Like how much is that sort of like comparing?
I mean, to some degree, there's I mean, for me anyway, I can't talk for anyone else. But our sport is very interesting because we compete the very first day and the very.
Last day and many days in between.
Right, So we have six different events, everything from a sprint to a marathon, and the marathon's last and the scathons first, and so for us, a lot of it it's like maybe you don't get to go in opening ceremonies if you race and compete the next day. And that's for a lot of athletes, so you know, like, Okay, I'm not the only one in this boat.
I'm not the only person.
So in that way, it's helpful to compare, like I'm not the only one going through this. Like, yes, I would love always march and opening ceremonies. It is the experience of a lifetime, and I'm glad I went when I was young and I could because I probably won't be able to do this next games.
But I'm not going to be the only one.
And at the same time, you also see athletes being able to go to all these different events and cheer, and I just felt happy that they were able to do that. On the one hand, I felt so lucky that I was able to come in so many events.
What an absolute gift. And of course, this little part of me is like I.
Would love to someday experience the Olympics when I'm not happy to focus every single second of every single day for three weeks straight.
But I'll get there. Someday.
I'll go as a spectator and I will experience it to my heart's content, and I'll go to every event and cheer for everyone. And I can have that experience later. But right now, I have to lock it in, and I have to lock it in for three weeks straight, and so I think a lot of it. Instead of comparing, it's more like this is just what I have to.
Do right now, just the reality of it. I do love, though, Like your dream is.
To go to the Olympics as a spectator, it's a lot easier to do than what you're doing, which most of us will dream of and never get to do. You know, I want to ask you about the post Olympic letdown because for people, even when they win, even gold medalists, will say that they have this feeling after the Olympics that they can't shake. And for those who are of course seconds off of the podium or don't achieve the things they want, that's more understandable.
It's still heartbreaking but understandable.
But can you explain to us the psychology or help us try to understand why even those who achieve their dream and win it all still sometimes have that feeling.
Yeah, well, so even when I was a little kid.
You remember, like when you're a little kid and you go to you're like your best friend's birthday party and it's a sleepover, and you get really excited and you've been looking forward to this. You stay up all night and you're totally jazz and you're like hyped up on sugar, and then you come home and the next day just kind of sucks because you're not with all your friends and you're not doing this cool thing, and the thing
that you've been looking forward to is over. Like my mom used to call that the post party blues.
Yeah, well a lot of people say it for their wedding, and I had it with my wedding. You spend a year planning and it's so awesome, but then it's over and you're like instead of like, Oh, wedded bliss, you're like, oh, but that's it. I don't get to do that again. Probably if you're lucky.
And whether or not it was the you know, your wedding best of your life, amazing, everything goes perfectly, you still have this letdown of like, oh, man, like I just got to have all of my loved ones right here and everyone's celebrating and have the best time, and like, now it's over.
That's that's challenging.
And so imagine you're not just you plan a wedding for a year, maybe two years, but imagine that you have trained four or more years for one thing, one event, one experience, one Olympics. So it's not just oh, I've been looking forward to this for weeks or months.
I've been training my whole life.
To get to this moment, and there's all this hype and all this pressure in the world is watching and then it's just like boom, over, gone, done, and there's this vacuum. And so in many ways, I think we're very lucky in cross country skiing because we have a normal World Cup season that we return to and finish up, so we have a little bit of this this kind of ramp down. It's not just falling off a cliff. You kind of had this gentle come down of like, Okay.
In many ways that's very challenging because you're pretty burnt out. But in many ways it's awesome because you're like, all right, I'm going to go back to the World Cup.
It's another goal, it's another thing to focus on. Because that's part of it too, I think, is like you have something to focus on and work towards, and when that's gone, it's like, well, what's.
My purpose now?
And I've even heard athletes say like if I spent my whole life, I thought when I won the gold it would change me or get rid of my problems, And what I realized was being a gold medalist doesn't change the other things in my life that I want to fix or work on.
I've heard a lot of athletes talk about.
That, and so yeah, I get it. I get that letdown is tough. We have to take another quick break. The conclusion of my conversation with Jesse is coming up. We only have a few more minutes, so let's do a quick speed round. Favorite Olympic memory from competing.
Oh, I mean, I have to say winning the gold medal.
I mean decent, It sounds decent. Yeah, favorite Olympic memory watching?
Oh man, there's a lot I gotta say. I think just being ready to go on deck for the relay, but watching my teammates, so seeing everyone put their heart and soul into it, and just knowing like I'm a part of this, Like I trained with them, I helped push them and look at them go like.
I felt like the cool crowd they're duckling.
Like watching I love the Okay, you have to start training today to try to compete in the twenty twenty eight Summer Olympics.
What sport do you have the best shot at making it in?
Oh my gosh, realistically, like, is very long distance trail running a thing?
Yet in the second case.
No, I don't believe. So you gotta go, Marathon, you gotta go. I'm not thousand meters, not the faster runner.
I guess I would say swimming, okay.
All right, And then last question, we've seen a lot of athletes pin trading. Are there any other traditions that are common for the athletes at the games or like things that we don't see behind the scene that would be like heartwarming about what the athletes do to like memorialize their experience or commemorate I guess not memorialize.
It's not dead.
Say the pin trading is so real and they're actually like a currency.
People don't know this.
You miss a bus, you need to ride, give a volunteer pin, you'll get there. I'm just saying like pins are like a like prisons.
Like you want the pins, do not give them away.
But I think one of the things is how people decorate their rooms, because the rooms are usually pretty bland because they're going to renovate and sell them with krondos later or something. Right, So I always get pictures of friends and family and have a bunch of cards and posters that you know, like my high school cross ki team would sign this giant poster and I would bring it to the games and with all these signatures of all these kids, and it would be right above my bed.
So you remember who you're racing for and why you've worked so hard and so I think one of the really heartwarming things that you don't see is the little things like that, like how athletes like take their friends and family with them into the games.
Ah. I love that, Jesse. This was such incredible perspective. We can't wait to watch you compete again. Good luck on the training, good luck on your next season, and thanks so much for spending some time with us.
Yeah, thanks for having me.
We hope you enjoyed that conversation with Jesse Diggins. Tomorrow will be revisiting another favorite convo from twenty twenty four, this one with former pro cyclist, activist, author, and filmmaker Catherine Bertein. See You then, Good Game with Sarah Spain is an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Production by Wonder Media Network, our producers are Alex Azzie and Misha Jones. Our executive producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan, and Emily Rudder.
Our editors are Emily Rutterer.
Britney Martinez, Grace Lynch, and Lindsay Cratowell. Production assistants from Lucy Jones and I'm Your Host Sarah Spain.