NFL Week 13 - Andrea Kremer joins, more pass interference debate, and how the onside kick was saved

my I hate. I hate people say that, Oh thirteen, So I'm lucky and they don't put like there's a thirteen floor in every building. By the way, Okay, whether you label it fourteen, it's the thirteenth floor, which is pretty annoying that they do that. My birthday is on the superstition. Give me a break. Whatever. All right, we got a great show. We're gonna we're gonna talk NFL

obviously more past an inference discussion. We've got Andrea Kramer is going to join us, and uh, and then we're gonna break down some stuff some college football or controversy in the iron Ball and then as always, hit some stuff that happened in the Cube this weekend. So let's start with past an inference review. Going into week twelve of the NFL regular season, there had been seventy one reviews for past inference and only and only twelve were overturned.

So the bar had been set very high and uh in terms of you know, call on the field being made, overturning that or call not being made and adding it

and replay. What we saw in week twelve we saw six reviews and three were overturned, So it kind of felt like a little bit of a of a philosophy shift that some of the calls that were made in replay, if you compared them to some from previous weeks, it was are to to to find a a discernible, you know, a real difference between the contact the level of contact. But three of six and week twelve so far in

Week thirteen, again six reviews, three reversals. So not basing this on any any concrete fact, but it does feel like that that there has been a little bit of a shift in in how these plays are being looked at. Just to kind of break down some of the calls from this week, I think the one that gar Garner the most attention was was our game and this was the game of the week you had, you know, you have nine into Baltimore, verse ten and one San Francisco

and uh. And it was in the third quarter. It was a pass from Mark Andrews and Jimmy Ward clearly contacts him early. And and you watch it, you watch it in real time, and you say, there's contact passes incomplete. There's no flag on the field. Andrews gets up and his hands are up and you know what happened? Why was there a flag? Coach Harbor John Harburth throws the flag, It goes to review. You know, I went on the air and talked about it, and look, the contact is

clearly early. The play ultimately stood. And the bottom line is when you're talking about past inference, and I think sometimes we get we always think past inference. We think when you Travis, when you think passive inference, what player offensive defense do you do? You look at first defense

defense Joe defense. But the rule when you and when you look at the rule book, there there isn't a specific rule for offensive past inference and defensive past and inference there Now, there are some things that will only be offensive past and friends like blocking down field, but

past inferences past inference. It applies to players on both sides of the football, and one of the rules says that it says both players have an equal right to the path of the football, and a defensive player can make a play on the ball and make contact that would normally be past inference. The only exception would be you can't play through the back to get to a football, and that's the key. So here, this is the issue. On this play. Ward is clearly playing the football, he's

clearly early. Does he go through the back or does he get even with the receiver? Is it more shoulder to shoulder. I thought that it wasn't clearly in the back. I thought if you watch one of the replays, you can see Andrews numbers the entire time, which would indicate that that the contact wasn't directly in the back. And I thought the call was gonna stand. And and that's what they ended up doing. And I'm not saying I'm right or or wrong. It's just it's such a hard call.

Does intent matter? Because to me, it was very very clear that he was going for the ball and absolutely and and and we talk about pass interference when one player is playing the mall and one player is not playing the ball, whether it's offense or defense, is not playing the ball, that player is now suspect for past in infeience. Right, if you're playing the ball, you have a defender has a right to that path of the football.

And what we always think if, honestly, if you switch the if you switch the roles and make and make Andrew's ward, and Andrews jumping for the ball, trying to make the catch and him making contact with the defender, would we be up in arms saying well, that's offensive past inference. We know the receivers trying to make a play in the ball, and I think sometimes we just have to we just have to separate offense and defense and say it's all one and they both have a

right to the to the path of the football. But it's a tough look. It's a close call. I'm not saying that it's clearly not past an inference. I just thought it was close enough to not have it added in replay because the call in the field was not made. What about the fact that he kind of grazed his head while going for the ball. Yeah, I mean there's contact. There's contact with the head. Again, to me, that's contact that results from him trying to catch the football. That's

how I look at it. And if you're not playing clearly through the back, you're not gonna you're not gonna get that call. I think that's the best way to really understand it. How you explain it. You explained in the Cube today. If you switch the players, and I think if people really grasped that, they would get it

a lot better. Yeah, I think so, And I think even you know, and we had a discussion on the air with Charles Davis, our our analyst on the game, and Charles is a former defensive back, and he thought it was past inference. And when we kind of had a good discussion and a good healthy dialogue about it, and and there was, you know, some disagreement amongst the rules analysts, right, Terry McAuley on on on NBC thought it was past the friends, John Parry on ESPN thought

it was past deference. Pereira was was agreeing that it wasn't past deference. So, again, this call is so subjective and what we're seeing is the standard. You know, where is it is it moving? What what is gonna be enough? You look at Philadelphia Miami, no call on the field. Challenged by Miami. You have Jalen Mills grabbing DeVante Parker's arm. It's added, He's got his arm around Parker's shoulder before the ball gets there. It's close, but they add that.

They add that in read. I thought it was a good ad too, and it and it was more in line with kind of what we thought was a philosophy change or shift in in from what we saw in week twelve. Then then you get you get two plays in in the Raider Chiefs game. Um and that was Joe's Joe's hypothetical lock of the week was the Raiders that hyper to that that hypothetical lock hypothetically was not good. And so but you have you have in the first quarter, you have no call on on LaMarcus Joyner and he

makes contact with Sammy Watkins, challenged by Kansas City. No flag added, So they let it stand. And I thought, if you compare that with the Miami play, similar close close type of contact. There was a there was a grab with the left arm and then he's and the kind of tomahawk chopped with the right arm before the ball got there. No no call added. Later in the game, third quarter, six fifty six, you have an interception by

the Raiders in the end zone and no call. Trayvon Mullen gets gets called then in replay, uh for contacting Marcus Robinson. And I thought, and I really liked Tony Tony Romo. I've always liked him, And no Cowboys fans don't think I liked them because I overturned the deaths play. But I've always liked him as an analyst. I liked him as a football player. But I thought he had

a great line. I thought that was such a great line because he goes he basically says, all right, let's bring in Geane so he can get this one wrong, which is hilarious. They were laughing as laughing. But but the thing is he's not saying that because he thinks Geene is incompetent. He's saying that because we've kind of been all over the place, and and it's so hard,

and I struggle with it. Prayer struggles with it because you're just you're trying to come up with some consistent standard or something you can you can kind of hang your hat on. And it's really hard because this is such a subjective call and not all past inferences are created equal, and every play is a little bit different. There's always gonna be a little variant you look at them. We go to the to the the Rams Cardinals game,

and there was no call made third quarter. UM. The guy that the rules should be named after, our guy, Robie Coleman. Here he interferes with Larry Fitzgerald or what looks like interference. Note call play was reviewed automatic review because it was an interception called reverse. They add replay UM for Saints fans. It's probably how many months too late, but they add the call on on Coleman and h he held, he held, fits his arm down. Again. When you look at all of these plays and you try

to find some common denominators, it's tough. And that's not an indictment on the people making the decisions in New York. That's just the nature of this call. It is very subjective. I feel like the obvious ones that got that got added are the ones where you're seeing an arm being held. That that's the significant hindering that we talk. Yeah, I think that you know, you're trying to find some common denominator, like I said, and that could be it, you know,

the arm being held. But then you go back to Golden Tate, you go back to DeAndre Hopkins. A couple of is that weren't overturned. But again, it's it's so subjective and I hate to sound like a broken record, but this is what you get when you make these calls revealable and look, this rule can work. It can work. They can tweak it, they can look at it, and

they will do that. There's we've only got thirteen weeks of a sample size their team, you know, just under thirteen weeks, still got a couple of games to go. But to me, it's something that is is we're going to continue to kind of have to kind of go through these these these rocky waters to try to get to a you know, a really consistent standard, and it's just hard. It's really hard. You saw the end of

the Chargers Broncos game. That's a game deciding play and you've got what what it's not a hail Mary, but it's it's kind of a hail Mary type throw. You know, they're down to eight seconds, seven seconds and the dB, you know, he doesn't he doesn't turn. He cuts off the route and he turns late and he interferes with with the Broncos receiver and they get a first down and they they're in field goal range and they kicked the game winning field goal. Now that's an automatic review.

Inside two minutes, I thought there were a couple of good replays that showed it was past difference. Personally, because it is so critical, I would have liked to have seen them stop the game and just make sure everybody understands that they looked at it. I think people still, you know, you see those comments on social media or whatever was they didn't even look at it. No, they

looked at it. They're they're reviewing every play and they're looking at it, especially scoring plays, turnovers, and inside two minutes, when when replays responsible for stopping the game, they're reviewing it, and they make decisions on a lot of those plays to not stop the game because they have evidence to confirm it or they feel like they're not going to change it, and so why are we going to delay

the game further? And I agree with that in the third quarter, I agree with that in the third quarter with two seconds ago, when they're gonna kick the game winning field goal. Just just make it clear that it was looked at have the referee making announcement. But I do like that philosophy. If we know we're not going to change it, why are we going to stop the game for an extra two minutes? To me, that doesn't that doesn't make a lot of sense. So but that's

past interference. You know, we're gonna be talking about this the rest of the season through the postseason for let's shift gears and and another rule that that we we may see some change where we've seen articles about, you know, potential changes, but all of a sudden this week things went completely off what was happening earlier in the season. Um, that's the onside rule or the onside kick, Like we we saw a bunch of their didn't talk about that that.

Thank you, Travis. That was a great suggestion to talk about the onside kick. Hey, that was actually really nice move on just Travis just taking that. It's not like he and I talked about that before the show and I asked him to try to spin off he is what would his show be called? Like what was me? It was? His podcast would be he would make me? Yeah, I make Travis so uncomfortable. It would be it would

be s w G with Travis Hanson. That would be the name of the show because Travis is entered white guy. Travis is the standard white guys. However, you gotta have, you gotta have the standard white guy in your group, like you know, some groups have. That's all they have is just the standard white guy and a lot of you know, conservatives. But anyway, but it's just the standard white guy. With Travis Hanson. I would listen to it every week and I would call you and make fun

of you and make you feel so uncomfortable. That's good if it makes you feel better than them. Let's make that happen. We've got the equipmentisode. We could just right after this, we'll we'll do what what are you gonna talk about? What are you gonna talk about? On the first episode, he's so he's so uncomfortable. What do you talk about about your you know, your your Dave Matthews band experience. What are you gonna talk about, like rollerblading?

What's what's going on? Eagles? The Eagles? So anyway, all right, let's let's talk about the on site kid, because honestly, we have been talking about this and you know, I think we were concerned. Small sample size and I think that's why you don't jump to conclusions, and that's why the Competition committee will always look at something over the course of a full season or several seasons. Because the onside kick, we had seen it historically, the number wastent

for success in terms of recovering them. Last year we started dropped to eight. This year we hadn't had a lot. It was hovering between three and four percent in terms of successful on expected on side kicks. That's what the NFL looks at expected on side kicks is when everybody's lined up and everybody's prepared for it. The the surprise nonside kick, that's a surprise anside kick. That that's an anomaly.

You know that that's you know, you see something on tape, you see something in a previous kick kick kick off um that tells you that you have a chance to get that surprise kick. But expected on side kick, you know, there are only two going into Week thirteen that we're successful. So far in Week thirteen we've had three, an additional three and if you count the one Atlanta New Orleans, Atlanta had three in that game. One got called back

on an off side penalty that was close questionable. I think people sometimes and even the officials, we have to differentiate between offside and then the illegal formation kicking team player hast have both feet on the ground with one ft on the thirty four until the ball is kicked. Then can go, but can't be beyond the restraining line when the ball is kicked. So all these things, so you have three this week. So now for the season so far, five successful on side kicks and thirty eight

expected attempts. That takes us right back to so to me, we had there was a CBS Sports um report that the league was gonna consider looking at the Denver Bronco proposal from last year, And if you're not familiar with that, that was a proposal for a team that could take an option in the fourth quarter only when they're when they're trailing, instead of an onside kick, they could go for a fourth and fifteen from the thirty five yard line.

And that proposal didn't had enough votes last year, and they were talking about they were talking about UM bringing that back and possibly discussing it in the off season. To me, if we stay at thirteen percent, there's no reason. There's no reason, and that's why you don't. You don't make knee jerk reactions. You look at the whole season, sometimes a couple of seasons before you you consider major major changes. Do you think they'll still talk about that

at meetings? Yeah, I think they. I think they talk about all of those things, and they'll have a discussion about the onside kick. They'll look at the tape, they'll look at all of the the expected on site kicks, and they'll they'll study it. But to me, it's always going to be driven by the numbers. The onside kick is so important for comebacks in close games and if you're if you have a thirteen percent success rate, that's where it's been historically, regardless of these changes, I don't

think you. I don't think there's gonna be a compelling argument or a push to make a change. It really feels like it should go down considering the at rid of that huge running star you trying to got to bring that back up. Um. But yeah, it's that's that was the fear, right. You don't have that running start, and you're not gonna get that momentum and you're not gonna get as far down field that you need to to get that. But look the the Atlantic kicker and

it's funny. Of the of the five, three have been against the Saints. And and when you talk about the Saints, Darren Rizzy, the special team's coach for the Saints, is one of the best in the business. Yeah, Darren is one of the best in the business by far. And it's just I think it's an anomaly that you see just that you know one team, and I know I felt bad for Darren, you know, watching the game on Thursday on Thanksgiving, because when Atlanta recovered that second one,

he Sean let him have it. And I've been on the other end of of a Sean Payton kind of verbal uh down and uh it's not fun. But again something to continue to look at. But I think you can kind of put the onside kick is is dead. You can put that that argument to rest. And I think, uh, I had to lead, would be happy about that because to me, the the kickoff is still part of the fabric of the game and you want to make it

as safe as possible. And certainly if we have if we have a ton of injuries, and especially head to head neck injuries, but the kickoff, the onside kick, those those are exciting players. You want to keep it as safe as possible, but to to go to a third for a fourth and fifteen type play, it just feels like it's going it's kind of gimmickay, and it's going against the the you know, kind of the fabric and the tradition of the game, not the not the only factor, certainly,

but just my opinion. Um, let's talk about another play from Thursday before we take a break, and that's the Buffalo Dallas. This was, uh, you know, the highest rated game I think are one of our producer on on last call and he and he comes in Bondo, Stephen Bond. He's a which we're upset that his parents did name him Stephen James. Would have been a great opportunity there. He's a Yeah, he's a big Bills fans. He's walking on air, like walking on he's cloud nine right now.

But um, that game Buffalo Dallas. You had to me it was a great illustration of why we can't jump to conclusions. It was in the second quarter and it was an illegal use of hands called against against Jordan Phillips of the Bills. And the replay, the replay that we showed on the air got to it late, and it was you see Phillips kind of making some contact to Dak Prescott's kind of head neck area, and you see the official throwing the flag even before that contact occurred.

And a lot of people assumed that the call was for the contact on Doc and that was not what the call was for. You don't have illegal hands to the face of a quarterback. If you had any contact of the face that was forcible, that would be rough in. The passer certainly could have a face mask, but not illegal use of hands. And and so when you go back and you look at the live shot or you look at the coaches tape, it's actually it's actually on Travis Frederick. Phillips does get his right hand up to

Frederick's head neck area and pins the head back. And that's what the call was for, and it was a correct call. But again we get that's why officials it's so hard because the scrutiny very rarely do we get the officials perspective the angle that the official had, and sometimes we're looking at it from a different angle. We don't see the entire act, and and we rushed to judgments.

So I just thought that was a good a good illustration of you know that type of thing happening and looking at all the angles and all the available resources before we jump to a conclusion. All right, let's uh, let's take a break. When we come back, we're gonna talk to I'm one of her biggest fans. She's amazing, the one and only Andrea Kramer. Next on Good Calls. All right, we're back on Good Calls. And I am so excited and so honored to be introducing our guest

this week. She is She's an Emmy Award winner, She's won the Peabody Awards. She has covered Olympics, Super Bowls, NBA Finals, Stanley Cup. She's interviewed a who's who in the sports world. Someone Pro Football Hall of Fame Pete Roselle, Radio and Television Award winner, the Incomparable. I could go on and on, an unbelievable person, a great friend, Andrea Kramer. Andrea, thank you so much for joining me. How are you doing today. I'm doing great. I'm doing great. I'm very

honored to be on with you. I think that I'm following in the footsteps of some esteemed guests that you've had prior to me. And I'll be honest, I am, I am a little bit. I'm a little bit intimidated because you have and just doing your you know, my my preparation for talking to you. You have interviewed and so many unbelievable people, and you're master of the interview. You actually teach a course at Boston University called the Art of the Interview? What what tell me a little

bit about that? And what is that all about? I do, which means I will be evaluating you, getting a great just like back to your your old days you were in officiating. Now that's right, exactly. No, No, no, I think, um, I think that interviewing is really a lost art. And um. I had been asked to guest lecture years ago by a woman that I knew who was a professor at Boston University in the Journalism school, and she asked me

to come in and talk about my Olympic experiences. So I came in and I did my normal prep, which is rather exhaustive, and when the class is over, she said, would you ever be interested in teaching? And I said, well, you know, I talked to so many young people and maybe I would because it's sort of a way to institutionalize a lot of the knowledge that I've gathered and learned of in my thirty plus year career. Excuse me,

just clearing my throat there. And they, you know, they basically said to me, designed the class that you want, whatever it is, We're gonna make it easy for you. No meetings, you know, you don't have to get involved in any of that stuff. Just teach the class. And it's been really great. Uh. It's made me probably even more neurotic about what I do, if that's humanly possible, just because you're you're you're hyper focusing on it. But

it's great. And I love my students and I keep in touch with a bunch of them and I'm I'm so proud of them when they go on to great things. So it's just my fifth job. Dean. Yeah, I know, you're like me. You're like me. I got a lot of jobs, a lot of a lot of balls in

the air right now. So the alternative, that's right. But I will be anxiously awaiting my grade at the end of the interview, so I have no doubt you will be earning an A. So and and in looking at your bio and it's interesting because there's so many in reading about you in your career, there's so many first when it comes to being a female. And and so you're you know, you and Hannah Storm are doing the Amazon broadcast and it's the first all female, all female

booth in any men's sport. Your you're we need to talk is is the sports show on CBS that you're doing, all first, all female nationally televised sports show. And I, honestly I struggled a little bit with you know, highlighting those things. But you your accomplishments are unbelievable. I don't

care man, woman alien, your accomplishments are amazing, saying. And I was talking to Amy Trask last week and she's another another kind of groundbreaking person in the NFL, and it's like, where is the line between highlighting your accomplishments as a woman, but also just your accomplishments are unbelievable

regardless of gender. Well, if you talk to Amy, my dear friend for many decades, she will tell you that she she actually doesn't like to uh reflect on the on the gender aspect of things that you know, you should be evaluated for your work, gender raised things of that nature. Uh For me. I guess starting with being the first female correspondent that ESPN ever hired. It's just sort of the way it is. And I've never kind of focused on it in terms of, uh, the you know,

the ground that you are are breaking. I've just what I've always aimed for is just knowing that everything that you do help set the stage for people that are coming behind you. And that's that in itself is enough motivation to want to do things the right way. I just think it's it's really important to do that. There's so many more opportunities that that excuse me, young people,

particularly young women, have in the sports business. But I just think that there's certain absolutes that you need to have and um, you know, a high degree of professionalism and understanding that reputations are very easy to build, very hard to tear down. And I just think that I've never kind of thought about the groundbreaking nature of what I do. I just kind of do it. And uh,

I'll tell you a funny story. So, uh, prior to my uh my Hall of Fame induction Profoba Hall of Fame last year, two years ago, I got inducted into the Phildelphia Sports Hall of Fame, and one of the people that was there was Mike Quick, the amazing See. So my very first job in sports I hated. I even hate to give a date here in Excuse Me

nineteen I wish um. I was the sports editor of the largest weekly newspaper in Pennsylvania, and I wanted to do a profile on Mike Quick, the rookie wide receiver who was going into who was going to his first Pro Bowl. So I put in a request with the Eagles, and women were not allowed in the locker room on non game days. Think about that. So I got special dispensation to come in the day after the season on

a Monday, to come in and interview Mike. So, you know, guys, see and how it is the end of the season. They're wrapping up their stuff and throwing all their things in a Duffel bag to get out clean out their lockers, and Mike is sort of sitting in one locker and I'm just sitting next tom. I have my record, but we're just started talking and after talking for about five minutes, he looks at me and he goes, Wow, do you

really know what you're talking about? And I was kind of like, duh, what do you think I'm here for. We joked about that when he was there for my Philadelphia Sports Hall of Fame induction, because you know, he was the first person that I really kind of interviewed, and that dates all the way back. But again, you just sort of don't think about how groundbreaking it is. You just know that you're doing the job and you want to do it as good as anybody, male or female. Yeah,

and that was you know, Amy. Amy told the story about being at the league meeting. She mentioned meeting you in the ladies room and how where there was no line, one of the few playss. But she mentioned her first special session, which is the privilege session where it's just two people per club, and that somebody from another club saw her and asked her to go get her a cup of coffee and and so it's one of those things.

And she played it off really well and you know, you know, sugar Cream, you know, kind of okay, playing along with it, and said that the person was mortified

when they realized who she was. And I think that's that's part of the challenge of your like, you just want to do the job the best you can, regardless of of you know, anything else, but you are, you are laying the groundwork for so many young women that see what you do and that that inspires them to greater heights and to do other things in their lives.

Well you can't, you kind of hope. So I think that the the Amazon, the Amazon thing is is a big deal only because, as you pointed out, we're the first, uh all female broadcast booth of a male professional sport in the US. And then you know my individual roles, the first full time female NFL game analysts, and you

you hope that it just begins to normalize things. We joke, we're on our Amazon broadcast, We're in two four countries around the world, and the idea of somebody potentially ly in Indonesia that here's this American football broadcast and they hear two women, Well that's all they know. They don't know that that's something that unique, that's something that foreign to to anything else, and there's there's something else you you you like your numbers, So so consider this one.

The first football game was televised in nine and so you can imagine how many games have been broadcast since then, right up until last year. Now fit and I'll think about this, all the innovations they've had, the first down line and sky cam and all this sort of stuff, all the great technological interviet innovations that that have been UH implemented by television broadcast networks. But until last year, the broadcast booth looked the same. Think about that, thousands

of how many games broadcast booth is? Yeah? Right, But then you know, in terms of the broadcast booth and even even Dean and look, I think that Fox putting you and Mike on the air was absolutely brilliant, absolutely brilliant, because it gave a totally different perspective UH that was necessary to expect. I mean, there's nobody in my years of working UH on Sunday Football, there's nobody I don't know if you feel the same way that knows the

rules the way al Michael's does. It's unbelievable. And yet even he will be the first to tell you can't even you can't keep you can't keep up with it.

It's impossible. It's just impossible. And one of the things that I learned, which I was really interesting earlier this season, I had the opportunity two along with my producer Betsy Riley watch a Thursday night football game before our season started in the command center with Al Riveron and Russell York and and uh Donna Ponte and of course try Vincent and I had said some thing about whether it was who are the players that are some player that's

active or something like that, and Troy looks at me and he goes, well, we don't. We don't really pay attention to that. We we almost don't really pay attention to the game in the sense that we only focus on the referee. We focus on that. And it was just really it was really Oh, I know why it was. It came up because I asked for a flip card, which has the depth and he said, well, we don't have that here, and I said, really, yeah, but we don't. That's not what we that's not what we care about.

So that was just that was enlightening in itself, just the idea of what gets focused on if you're an official as opposed to what gets focused on if you're a broadcaster. Yeah, and you know, and I give credit to you know, Pereira when he left. I mean, that was that was groundbreaking that no other sport had had an officiating voice and I thought it was such an unbelievable new innovation, and now you've seen every network has one.

And because the rules are like you said, al Michaels knows the rules, but he's not going to know the rules like an official or a former official or somebody that worked in the in the officiating department. And uh, and that was definitely groundbreaking. And and it's interesting you talk about the Amazon experience, what is that would have been some of the challenges because when you know, I've talked to you about football and we kind of we

were even texting last night about the game. But it's to think about explaining the game to somebody in Indonesia. All right, That's that's not something that most analysts have to have to deal How much of a factor is that when you're explaining something are you are you really getting? You know? Is it almost a one oh one type of explanation to somebody when you know how many countries there are? Well? No, no, no, no, no, I don't

think it's anything like that. UM. I go back to um some advice that al Michael's gave me before I started this last year, and he says to me, uh, he says m You know, the broadcasters don't really understand the language that they use. The audience doesn't understand it either, So don't get wrapped up in in the language that is football. And there's no question that that does exist.

So for example, if I'm talking about a jet sweep or ghost motion or the pistol formation, I'm gonna say, uh, I'm gonna actually indicate what I mean by They'm gonna breakdown what it is with the pistol formation that you know, you've got the running back lined up behind the quarterback, you know what I mean, and if he's in the shotgun whatever it is, I'm just explaining it. And Dean,

it's not that hard. It's not that hard. I mean, do you do you need to say a rub route or do you need to say well, kind of like you know a pick play in basketball where you want it where you're using your body to to shield the defender and it's not going to be legal if such and such happens. There's ways you can explain things. I do not call it dummying it down. I just call

it trying to explain things. And so, uh, my my producer Betsey and I we we kind of had a We had a joke that actually dated back to Sunday Night Football where it used to make our director Drews a cuff crazy when you hear about a gap A gap, bac, all right, what do you think people really understand what that is? So I kind of made this this valve that I wasn't going to use that kind of terminology. So here we are last year, Um, it's our final game.

It was Chiefs Chargers, and I think it was justin Jackson. He had just this gigantic hole in the A gap. So I'm on the replay and I go and look at that hole in the in that area between the guard and the center. And after the game, Betsy says to me, you did it. You You didn't pull out the lingo that nobody's I literally caught myself in the middle of it. And I think that's just what it is.

And I and truthfully Dean, I think that that would benefit a lot of announcer because it may down really cool. There's no doubt. And you know, whether you're Tradeigman or or Chris or or James Lofton or or Mark Flareance or you know, you know, Spielman, whoever it is these guys that have played the game. Of course they know you know everything, but it may sound cool when you're when you're recounting this at the water cool or the

next day, but you really understand it. So for me, it's just a matter of if I can't explain it, I'm not going to use that terminology because there's plenty of things that you can explain that make the audience feel that they're learning something along with you and not being just talked at. Does that make sense? It makes perfect sense. And I look at my own experience having, you know, coming from an officiating background, but I never was an on field official, and I had to learn

the rules from from a different perspective. And officials, and you've talked to enough officials, they have a language that they speak and I and I use when I'm on the air and I'm explaining a call, I could use all of this official creating jargon and it would come across to the viewers what is he talking about? And and that's I've always felt that was an advantage for me because I was learning it from a fan perspective and I had to present it in that way. And

I think that's helped me explain rules to people. And I think you you know, what you're explaining is basically similar in that because you know, we've all we've all seen the shows, and I think that's more that that language is probably more suited for you know, the breakdown shows where they have more time to really dive into the the xs and ohs, but where you you know, we we I have very little time on the air.

You you have a couple of seconds to explain something next place coming up, and and I think that works and I think more analysts need to need to use that approach. Well, I appreciate that. So one thing that's kind of cool that, um, you know, I think that and we we kind of get asked all the time, what is it differentiate your broadcast other than the the voices are are literal really in figuratively different. And I

always like to say that we're kind of a reporter's broadcast. Um, I think that, Uh it came to it was in full full bloom last year when we had Raiders Niners and during the week we knew that uh C J. Bethard, who's the backup quarterback who was already playing for for Jimmy Garoppolo was fifty fifty with an injury. And so, as you know, you get the the inactives ninety minutes

before that. But even before that, about two hours I got a I got a text from somebody in the Niners saying, Bethard is that could be able to go. It's gonna be Nick Mullins, rookie from Southern Myth making his first start. So we kind of just we we leapt into action. So tracked down his college coach who was now the offensive coordinator, I think it Auburn, wherever he was. We got him on the phone, then talked

to another coach who was with in college. That was Todd Munkin, who is now the offense coordinator in Tampa. Got him on the phone. Then I talked to John Lynch. Then I talked to Nick mullins agent, Buzz Cook, who's also Bred Fires agent. Because there have been some obviously some comparisons made, so we had about four or five different people that we talked to, and and our executive producer from Amazon said, a bunch of slackers. Why didn't

you talk to the midwife who delivered him? And you know we're sitting there going but as it turns out the kid had you know, played out of his mind, had a great game, and as the game progressed, we could as as each quarter went on, we could give you different layers of information about Nick Mullins. And that to me was really cool. So as opposed to just continuing to say the same staying on a loop, we

had all these different things. So that that being said, one of the things that I try to do when we talked to the players until last week we had the for two weeks ago we had the Texans, and this is a great example. We're on the phone with DeAndre Hopkins and so one of the things I wanted to talk to him about, in addition to obviously going up against the the the the Colts defenses. Okay, you're known for your incredibly acrobatic catches, So take me through this.

Explain to me the body control that's needed. Explained to me how you make these tiptoe catches. Explain to me how you are you know this almost you are are a almost automatic in terms of getting first downs, not converting just third downs, but getting first down. So the idea of what's it like to something is something is what I try to get from a lot of these players, and then when you see it materialized in the game, you can bring to your audience a whole another layer

of explanation. So it's not just okay, well, you know he's going up against Pierre to see her there in man to man coverage, and you you can go way beyond that. You can try to give your audience perspective on how the athlete, how the receiver in this case is making some of these catches, not just you know, how he uses his body to box out whatever it is.

And I think that's pretty cool. I think that that's just one other, one other layer of information that that we tried to give you, yeah and getting and people want they want you to peel back that that kind of that curtain, right and see behind the scenes and get in get in the mind of the player and what happens. And I think the especially the NFL fan loves that and I think they can't get enough of that. So you know, I love that approach, and we try to do that when we talk about of fish eating

as well. So segue into that. Saving the best for last. Okay, where where are we with past interference review? What has been your your experience this season. What what are your thoughts on it, the rule, how it's been applied. I'm

interested in what you think. Well, you're the expert on this, right, I mean I think that I think that people continue to say well, and when I say people, I mean literally, whether you're in the broadcast booth, whether you're a fan at home, whether whoever it is, whether you're standing on the sidelines. I think each week you continue to say, I don't even know what it is. I don't even know how the how it can be, how it can

be explained, it can be qualified. Look, I mean what I what I've learned listening to people like you who continue to hammer it in, uh, certainly listening to it from from el Ververy Run and Troy Vincent. I think what people have to remember is the call in the field is the holy Grail. So what the initial call is is the standard from which you start. Well, that standard is we're all human and officials are human. That's still going to be a judgment call. What you see

at that moment. Well, by the time it gets kicked back to New York, it's still a judgment call. That's what I think. So you're you're trying to get perfection in a situation where that is impossible. Of course you want to get it right, but at what expends to the game, because no matter what, it's still a judgment. And I I know that Sean Payton was very frustrated and he's talking about it's got to be more than

one voice, and I understand that. But I've been in that command center and you know what goes on better than anybody. And there's still are other people. Even though it is Al's ultimate decision. He's out with Russell Yerke exactly. He's getting input. So I think it's I think it's difficult. I think Dean, anything that detracts from the lay on the field is not good for the game. And we've

got to constantly remind people this is a one year experiment. Um. I think that as we edge closer to the playoffs and the whole postseason, it gets a little worried because, boy, you do not want above all, you do not want to happen this year what happened last year, which is that seminal play in the NFC Championship game that really

you know that that turned the tide for things. But I I think it's Uh, it's added a whole another layer of of angst, which I think is very unfortunate, Uh, in a season that has had so many good things, and yet every week you kind of see this come up and you sort of shake your head and say, if not this, then why yeah? Yeah, And I think you you hit the nail on the head with the reason why this this has not been a reviewable play situation why the committee was so averse for so many years,

Because like you said, it's a judgment. And when you when take a subjective call like past inference and you make it reviewable, all we're doing is taking we're taking the official on the field and we're replacing his or her judgment with somebody else's judgment. And it's still that word is still part of it. And you me our river On, Troy Vincent, Troy Aikman, Mike Prayer, we could all sit in a room and look at ten past

interference calls and not agree on any of them. And because it is such a subjective call, and that's been I think we're we're seeing that, we're seeing that play out, and I think that's like you said, it's a one year it's a one year experiment or one year rule, and they don't have to vote it out. They can

just let it be. I think they're gonna look at it, they're gonna tweak it potentially, But again, I just hope that we don't get into a situation, like you said in the postseason, where we have that, we have that catastrophe and uh and it and it detracts from what, you know, what should be a celebration of a hundred years of NFL football. So I'm curious that really quickly, where do you see it being How do you see it being tweaked? Yeah, well I like that now you're

interviewing me. I love that. So it's it's to me. I think they have to look at every they have to look at how how the rules being applied. And from a replay perspective, I think you want consistency, and you either you either stick with okay Saints rams that's the standard, then then the call in the field is going to stand unless it is so blatantly obvious that

it was past inference. I think we saw that throughout the season, and I think people had a hard time digesting that and accepting that, and so ultimately to me, it either is or it isn't past inference, and we use the technology if they're going to keep this rule to say, yeah, it's judgment and in my judgment or or whoever's making that decision in New York, it's past inference or it isn't. And I think that's where you know,

that's where the committee has to focus on. The Other thing is we're talking so much about replay, but we've got to focus on the officials on the field too, And some of these calls that are being missed, why are they being missed on the field, And we're having this debate about replay, Well, let's get to the route.

If there is a problem, let's get to the root of it and figure out the official on the field and coach them up and get them to the place where we're being consistent initially and that and see that that point is exactly consistent with what I started off saying, which is that the call in the field is the

holy grail. That's why that's the one you have to try to get as as correct as possible, especially knowing the climate right now, which is that it has to take something so egregious to change that and um, and I think it's also interesting. Uh. And I don't know what it is across the board. You can't generalize completely, but you wonder how much pressure the officials do feel because maybe they sit there for well, you know it's

going to go to review anyway. Well, no, no, no, I think it's more important than ever to try to get it right. You always want to get it right, and that goes out saying that's that's everybody's job. But I think it's more important than ever to try to get it on the field, to get it right on the field, because it's so difficult to overturn you know, not even just p I, but just you know, any of these calls. I think, Uh, I think it's really interesting and look, it's um, it's something that it makes

for great conversation. Uh, there's no no doubt about it. I'm just not sure if that's the that's the kind of conversation that you want to be having with with all these with all these great plays that are being made in all these you know, some of the especially some of these great games that are coming down to the wire. So um, you just you hold your breaths

right As an officially you hold your breath. That was the season comes when I was in the officiating department, that the most tense time was when there was a flag throwne and then you're waiting for the replay. That was your just those couple of seconds waiting for the replay. Is it going to be there? As an not going to be there? And that's and so I live that. I know what our rivron's going through. It's a tough,

tough job. And like you said, I hope we uh you know, smooth sailing the rest of the season and we can focus on these unbelievable games and great players and coaches and everything. I remember when we did the Super Bowl, you know with Senn Football, Um, you know, we had the great Arizona Pittsburgh super Bowl. Remember meeting

with you know, talking to Pereira before that game. You know, he was in our NBC production meeting, and you know it's just you know he was he was just honest about how you hold your breath because you just don't want a game of you know, the biggest game ever to come down to an officiating call, you know what I mean. And it's it's yeah, it's it's stressful all around, but you know you you at some point you got to trust your eyes and and and as as has

been famously said, Dean, do your job. That's right, do your job. We know that, do you exactly well, Andrea, thank you so much for taking some time. You're the best, really appreciated. And uh and good luck with the rest of the season. Well, thank you, Dean. And not to not to end this by getting myself in trouble, but of course the officiating situation misses you well, pretty great, You've got a great gig. And but anyway, listen, thanks

for having me on. It's it's always a pleasure to talk to you, and and happy to come back and visit any time. And happy holidays to you and to your listeners. Same to you. Thanks Andrea. All right, let's shift gears. Let's go this week in the Cube. We spent a lot of time in the Cube Friday, Saturday, Sunday got a little loopy. But the thing that stood out for me. One of the things that stood out for me is that we were quoting. We have another guy that works with us, Scott, and he's a he's

a big movie buff, and so we were quoting. We were talking about the Irishman, which I haven't seen yet, Martin Scorsese, and it brings up, you know, Denier Opuccino and and Joe Pesci and and I started we started quoting good Fellas, and one of the classic scenes from good Fellas when Raleiota and Joe Pesci they're in the restaurant and Raleota says, you're a funny guy, and Joe Pesci starts playing, you know, messing around. Why am I

so funny? What am I clown? I amuse you? The whole deal and Travis and Travis like, what was that from the Gods? What movie is that from The Godfather? And like he the fact that there were so many layers of my anger is that he didn't know what movie it was from, No, you didn't. The second layer of anger was that he just assumes, because I'm talking about it, it's The Godfather and it just makes me. And then we talk about that he he hasn't seen

Rocky like he has I haven't seen. It's embarrassing as an Italian American offended that you haven't seen Rocky? And how do you not see Rocky? I don't know. Let's watch it together, guy, that's fine, that's fine, but that could be episode one of the s w G. Yeah, exactly, him watching rock his toe, I've never seen I've never

watched a movie with a person in it. This is this is so anyway that aside, there was some really good stuff on social media and one of the things this came across I don't know, it just happened, and it came across this This Twitter person started tweeting at me, started tweeting at me, and it's the Dean Blandino Alert and it's at alert Dean, and it's a Twitter page and it's trying to spot every appearance of the greatest rules analysts with the best name. And if you there's

a picture the two great pictures. There's me my face on a goat's body, and I can only assume that he's implying that I'm the goat, which is great. And then it's a picture of It's the Last Supper with me as Jesus and and my face and it's unbelievable. It's I don't know. And so this you're gonna make, We're gonna make T shirts whatever it is. So follow him with the good call. You'll get a you'll get

a ping every time Dean goes every time exactly. So so there's that, and then there's this kid, and I don't know what to do, but there's this kid. He he he tweeted at me like he asked me how the weather was in l A. And I always like these guys, know, like I I'll respond any any tweet at me that has nothing to do with football, I'll respond football stuff. I'll respond if it's a legitimate question,

but I'll respond to how's the weather. And I was like, Oh, it's pretty good in l A. You know, a little cold for southern California standards. He's like, oh, it's snowing and raining in New York. I guess this kids from New York. And he's like, you know, um, you know, can we you know Penn State makes the Rose Bowl. Can me and my buddies come out and stay with you. We'll bring the beer. So I was like, you know,

we're playing around. So I said, yeah, you know, I'll get a couple of air mattresses and I'll stock the fridge. So he sends me a direct message and he said we're gonna be in l A. Gives me the dates and if Penn State makes it, that would be so awesome if we could crash with you. And then he's tweeting his friends. So now I feel bad, like I want to hang out. I'll hang out with him, but I can't have him and his buddies staying with me.

I just it's not gonna work. But hopefully the listens to the podcast know that, Andrew, I want you to come out, hang out. We'll have a good time. I'll show you know. I'll take you guys out, but you can't crash your my place. We'll get you a couple of shirts too. We'll get them shirts, We'll buy him drinks whatever. You know. Um, Travis, you you brought this up to me. Can you explain this? This this happened. This was a good discussion we had in the cube.

Can you can you just set this up for everybody everyone? Please? So we see a lot of like, weird names, random names. We we the one we we had a few weeks ago, the coldest Crawford I think, and the coldest to ever do it was there and and the play by play voice of the Yellow Jackets Georgia Tech and also the play by play for the Atlanta dream is names Andy, What do you say de Metro? How is that al?

We say it? He said. One of the most underrated storylines in the college football this season, the slow influx of influx freshman named after early two things. We have to march this episode explicit now because Travis just said what he just said. Now, we're gonna have to We're gonna have to make it explicit. So good continue influx. Yeah, so that we're seeing all these new names of these two thousand and these are can you named? These are actual names. So here's some of the names this guy

listed in this tweet. Jadakiss, Harvey, Cameron Kelly, Mr Cole McGhee,

Ma Mace Funa. So it's we were so I was, I want this to become such a thing and I want people to name their kids like I was going through like nineties rappers and can we I mean, I just want like like Buster Rhymes Williams, like can we have Like I want so bad for this to become a thing, like please please name your kids after nineties rappers, Like this is two thousands rappers, So they're not even like good rappers on like the scene of like actual

Good Road. That's w what do you know about's rap? That's when that's when these are two thousand rap Travis. But then again, but Mace is a nineties rapper, so so so he was a little bit off like because I have no idea what that is mystical, I don't even know what that is. You guys, Travis loves him some snow man, he loves snow. Did give I'm so close to see it, but I'm not. Please give us a little snow well we won't be able to play it. The guys will tell us inform, you know, keep a

move down. We have a video. But I so want this to be a Please name your kids after two thousand rappers, so we can just we can just name it. I have a son on the way, Travis, but we want because you have the whole scan of name. Hans Hansen is probably still on the fur Hanson. Can we can we do with a K? Yes, Magnum Henry the Destroyer Hanson. That's why I want. But we do have, we do have. We do have some really good names. I mean we always we always loved he played with

Texas last year. Is he in the league. I think he's on a practice squad. Little Jordan, Yeah, he got cut by, got cut by Atlanta, which I think is the greatest. Little Jordan's is such a such a But the crazy timing to this whole thing was when we were having this, we were the current cornerbacks Nebraska's names Dicacaprio Bootle, DiCaprio Boodle, So we weren't sure if that if mom was a fan of like Titanic or what, and so DiCaprio Boodle, like it's the King of the World, man,

the King of the World. I think it's amazing. I named my son Clooney. Why don't you name him Shakille shack Hanson. That sounds shack Canson. Does I still like Sonny, Sonny Joe like Sonny um? And then speaking of Joe, speaking of Joe send So so we get a text, we just send the lot tex like like at midnight, Joe sends a you up text to me, Travis, and Scott in the studio, so none of you, none of us reply, but reply like, um, excuse me. And Joe.

We we figured that Joe just sends when he's lonely, he sends a U up text to his entire contact was and he hopes that somebody responds. I only said I was trying to just send it to Dean. I just you guys were on the group thing, and you know, well, what did you want to discuss? I don't even remember exactly, but I mean you did said that one probably let's talk about your pizza. There was probably, oh the pizza. So Wednesday night, big night to go out, day before Thanksgiving.

So me and some friends were out having some cocktails. And what do you always want when you're out drinking when you're done? Not laten, Not definitely not. Either some sort of a burger or some sort of a taco or a pizza. I got on the app the Fresh Brothers up. Order a pizza to my house. Please just leave it on the doorstep. I paid with the credit card, left the tip, and then we got home and there was a pizza on the doorstep, and it felt like I had just one life. The video your video. But

let me tell you something. Do not get the triple Pepperoni. It's too much pepperoni. I never thought I would say that that's a lot of but it was. This was two weeks in a road talking Fresh Brothers. This is pretty solid Fresh Brothers. You guys want to sponsor the show, come on Fresh Fresh Brothers was a good call. Video Fresh, probably it's a good call. So speaking of speaking of pizza, So, I don't know if you've seen the Papa John's video.

Was was quite the topic of discussion in the Cube this weekend and we were just amazed if there's so much and obviously there was so much talked about on social media about Papa John's like and so we came up with this this idea that that I'm friends with Papa John and he was. I was. He was calling me after the interview. I don't know how this came up, but he was calling me after the interview and it was just a one way conversations. All you could hear

was me and I'm doing this in the Cube. Let's set up the covert or the video a little bit though. How his voice sounds like people, you watch the video, watch the video, trust me and and so and so I'm taking the call from Papa John Schnader whatever his name is, Schnader Hrder and after the video airs, and so this is me just talking. So I'm going, hey, what's up man? You know, no, it's late yeah, I was about to go to bed. No, I thought you

came across the room. You came across really well, I think, yeah, he has no pizza making experience, like great, it's forty pizzas is a lot of pizzas and you you were the guy, and there is no consistency. It's like it's like past deference in the NFL. There's no consistency right now with with pizza. And No, I don't, don't. Don't text Payton No, it's late, don't it's late on the West coast. Don't, don't text page heat. No, him and I don't think he and Brad Paisley have better chemistry

than you and him. I really don't. So that that was just And this went on for like thirty minutes. So you can see we had a lot of fun and we had a late night on Saturday, and uh, and so we had to do this with more things that oh my god, we'll go. We'll definitely do that. So let's finish up. It's uh, let's let's end with the brain of Blandino. Joe, can you pick something for us? All right, let's check it out. Bobby got a raw deal. One kick to me and he gets d Q. Johnny

commits about four flagrant fouls. Oh, karate Kid. We're gonna break this down, Okay, So in the off season, we're going to break down the karate Kid, the tournament and the final, the officiating because I have a lot of problems. We're gonna do a whole episode on on officiating in movies and TV, and I have a lot of problems with how that was officiating. Bobby got a raw deal. Here's the kid that was the one Cobra Kai with

a heart. He was the one guy that when they were beating the crap out of Daniel Son, and he was the one guy that was telling Johnny and and then Miyagi had to come and and beat them all up. And this is the guy that came in. He was the runner up the previous year at the All Valley State Tournament to Johnny. He's already playing second fiddle to Johnny. And now he goes into the match and I think he's just as good as Johnny, and he could beat Daniel.

But what does did the coach say? He says, I don't want him beat I want him I want him taken out. I want him out of commission. So Bobby has to kick him in the knee and he gets immediately disqualified for sweeping the leg. Right, I mean not even sweeping the leg. He he did a jump kick

and he kicked him in the knee. If you watch the final match, Johnny commits like four flagrant fouls, culminating with him catching Daniel's leg and dropping an atomic elbow on the back of the knee, the already injured knee, and the referee is like, no, that's not a that's not even a foul. Well, it's a warning for illegal contact. That to me, Bobby got a rowdale. You know, I'm gonna agree with you on this. Although you aren't a rules expert in the karate, we will we will bring

on how about that? We will bring on a rules expert in that in that arena, and we will break it down with that expert. How about that? Do that in the offseason. That's our show. This has been good calls with me, Dean Blandino. Please follow me on Twitter at Dean Blandino, in Instagram at deem dot Blandino. See what I did there. Follow the show on Instagram and Twitter at Rules Podcast, and be sure to rate our podcast on the I heart Radio app and on Apple Topics.

M Good Calls with Dean Blandino is a production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.