NFL Week 10 - The Different Standards for PI

I think he might be fourth on the list and maybe Emma, thank you Travis, thanks for thanks for being there. As always. Joe Madrid on audio. Not a rapper, not a rapper. I could dance, I'm not a I'm a lover, not a rapper. Let's let's get into it. Let's talk NFL Week ten, and and started out the week really started quiet early in the in the early games, and then they ramped up and there there's definitely a lot

of stuff to talk about. And so our big game of the week, Carolina and Green Bay, ended with a replay review and and the Packers were a head. Panthers were driving down by eight so they have to score and obviously go for two and uh an interesting call. They actually it was four seconds on the clock, so so chances are this is your only shot unless you get a penalty. And they ran a run up the middle to McCaffrey hoping, hoping to catch you know, the packers.

By surprise, McCaffrey looked like he was stacked up, He was on bodies. He he stretched for the goal line and was ruled short. Went to review and the ruling on the field stood. And look, this is one of those deals that even with even with all of the camera coverage, there's a couple of reasons why I call in the field stands. And we'll talk about this one. This was one where we just never got a look at where the ball was in relation to the goal line.

And I know, Travis, you had sent me that Albert Brier, you know who's who's an NFL writer, had had tweeted out about the call. And what did what did he say? Albert Brier said, he's a he's an writer here. He said,

I think McCaffrey. McCaffrey probably got the ball across at one point or another, but there's no good look at it the key where there's probably yeah when you start saying probably and think and look, we knew this when we brought replay back in and that that and even and then imagine in ninety nine there were there wasn't a high definition. I mean it was standard deaf. Go back and watch a football game and standard deaf, and and tell me if you broadcast from Afghanistan from like underwater,

it's insane. And so so we knew that there were gonna be situations where even with the camera you know, right down the line, which here it's a goal line play, that that you weren't going to get a great look all of the time. And this was one situation where because it happened that the goal line there were bodies in the way, we never got to look at the football. So the call on the field stood. And and and

that's the thing. You think about the coverage in games and Sunday night football, you know, you probably you know you could have twenty cameras on on during the day on Sunday, depending on what what crew it is, you might have eight to ten cameras. And and the thinking was the competition committee thought about that and they said, okay, well,

you're gonna have teams playing with more camera coverage. But they felt like, okay, the two teams that are playing in that game, they're under the same parameters, they have the same camera coverage. And then there was a lot of conversation, Hey, but what about you know, if if my division rival, you know, one of the teams in my division has more prime time games, and they're gonna

have greater coverage than the games that I have. And and the competition committee said, look, the game that you're playing, you're you and your opponent are are playing under the same parameters. And and that's the you know, that's the equitable part of it. It's never gonna be perfectly equitable. But this was obviously a situation. This is the game you'd love to have the clear look to say either he scored or he didn't. But the call in the

field stood. And that's like I said to start, there's one of two reasons why a call on the field will stand. It's that you don't have enough information to make a definitive ruling. Here, we just didn't see the football. The second reason to call on the field will stand. This goes to our second play that we're going to discuss. This was another one of our games rams Steelers, and this is a big play ends up being a big

play in the game. Jared Goff gets hit, ball comes loose, the Steelers pick it up, Manka Fitzpatrick and and and runs it in for a touchdown. It goes to review, and this was a play past fumble where we had all the looks you see the football the entire time. Then it just comes down to judgment, right and and if we don't can't say definitively that the hand came forward with control, and when you're talking about control of the football, that can get subjective. So the booth, actually

it's an automatic review booth looked at it. They didn't stop the game for further review. They determined, which is part of that process what happens scoring plays, turnovers inside two minutes, the replay official is looking at all reviewable aspects of every play. This was obviously an automatic review

because it resulted in a score. It was a turnover and uh and they determined that either they couldn't tell whether the hand was going forward and they knew they weren't going to change it, or they determined that the hand wasn't coming forward with control, and and they were gonna let the play stand and uh, and they didn't stop the game for a further review. Bottom line is, you look at that play and I immediately my initial reaction was passed. I thought the ball was coming the

hand was coming forward. Initial movement of the hand coming forward intentional movement is a forward pass. I thought the hand was coming forward. Then I started to look at it. There was one angle from behind where it looked like maybe the ball came out before the hand came forward. But then there was a sideline shot that it did appear that the hand was coming forward. Look if if you don't if one angle shows one thing and another angle shows something different than you always revert back to

the call on the field. And that's basically what they did. They determined that, um, they weren't going to change it. To me, it looked like a forward pass. I certainly would have liked them to stop the game and looked even further. But it certainly looked like a forward pass. But but again, big big play in the game because it ends up being a one score game. I thought it looked real Tuck ruly like he was going to bring it back down. Yeah, so let's talk about the

tuck rule for a second. So it's a pass. The forward movement of the hand starts the passing motion until he starts to bring the ball back towards his body. And and so the key is if I start the hand forward and I lose it before I start to bring it back down, it's a pass. If I start to bring it back down, then I lose it, it's a fumble. Now the old tuck rule, it was a fumble until I actually tucked it all the way to

my body. So it was close. It really was one where the defender actually hit gosspan hit his arm and uh. And the question is did the hand come forward? You know, I thought it was a pass. I didn't think I didn't think that that if it had gone to review. Letting it stand was so outrageous because it was so close. But this is again, these calls are so close, and you're talking about subjectivity when you're talking about movement and control.

And there was a thought back in when we were putting together the list of reviewable plays, there was a thought to saying, you know, don't make possession plays reviewable because because they are subjective catch, no catch, things like that, but they happened so often there's so they're so impactful that the committee ultimately felt, hey, we gotta review these plays.

But you go back, you know, if if a ruling on the field initial in the initial rule, if the ruling on the field was an incomplete pass wasn't reviewable, you couldn't make it a fumble. And then obviously plays happened where they were fumbles, then it was okay, you have to have a clear recovery. So so that that's

how the rule evolved over time. And now we're looking at these subjective things and uh, and we're gonna get into a little bit later the the king of all subjectivity, past interferance, which is now reviewable, which we're debating every week. And uh and quite frankly, you know, I felt like I struggled this weekend with that. And we'll talk about that in a in a little bit. But um, and we go back to do we go back to the

McCaffrey play. Another thing that I saw on that I wanted to ask you is in in that play, you see the offensive lineman kind of grab ahold of him and try to pull him towards the goal line. Is that allowed? Well, the rule, the rule states, just the rule states, you can push, but you can't pull a teammate at the ball, carry a teammate can't pull the ball, carry and help him advance um the football. That I

can't remember the last time that was called. There was another one in in the Cowboy's Giants game of Monday Night that looked very similar. We've seen, yeah, we've seen. We've seen a lot of examples where yeah, by the letter of the law, by the letter of the rule, you could you could certainly call it and say, yeah, look he grabbed me, pulled him, He pulled him. Typically you see it at the goal line, you know, or the line of the game, when you have those big piles.

But again, it's so when you have when you have the pile of players and the offenses pushing and the defense is pushing, and you have that big pile, it's really difficult for an official to see that and to say, you know, was was he truly grabbing him and pulling him. I haven't seen that call made, and probably I think the last time it was called maybe in the eighties. And and we're going back, we we probably have some people listening that weren't even you know, don't even know

what the eighties were. Um. But but the thing is, it's in the rule book. It's one of those rules that you very rarely like. Like we said, it's it's very rarely applied. And uh and I think again at that point, it's survival of the fittest. I have a question about that play two Dan. So we looked at the second camera angle the long shot down the goal line, and it was being blocked by a couple of the white outs. Do coaches ever coach, hey, get out of

the way. Move. Do you think that that's something I don't, you know, I don't think that. I don't think it goes that deep. I really don't. I think you have you have players that are just whatever their assignment is, whether you know their receivers are running around or they're blocking. I don't think it goes that deep. You do, you do sometimes see you see the camera the officials actually in great position because the officials on the goal line

and they end up blocking the camera. And and so depending on how high the camera is and can you get that look and and this is a discussion that has happened for many years. You know, should the league? Should the league install fixed cameras at every stadium question? You know, yeah, so, or what about like a sensor in the ball and on the goal line. You've talked

about that and a sensor in the ball. Look, I think that works for that works for sports like soccer because there's no there's no third variable like the need right exactly so and soccer it's the ball and the line and then so we we can tell that the ball across the line, you know, with the sensors or

whatever that technology is. But with the football, we could, Yeah, there there's location technology, there's there's there's trackers in in in you know, the players are wearing gps that they can track, you know, and all this next she and stat stuff and how fast they run and and and the distance and things like that, and and the league has experimented with chips in the football's to show in terms of distance traveled and speed and on all those things.

But again, you could locate the football, but can you locate it and know when, at what moment in time is the play over? You know, when is the knee down, when is the elbow down? So there's an added variable

that makes it that much more complicated. And and I look, technology is changing every day, and it's it's you know, Joe tells us every day how amazing his tesla is and all the technology and how it's you know, it literally it literally you know, it drives him to work and it does all these things and it reminds him to pick up his dry cleaning. All this amazing technological advancements.

And uh so we'll get there someday, I think. But but again, right now, it's, uh, it's not feasible to implement that technology and to and to efficiently implement it and apply it. So but it's definitely an interesting and interesting topic that will be. That's definitely that people are always asking me. And I was like, I'll asking that's

a good one. Yeah, that is a good one. Travis. Um. I just imagine Travis like walking around he's at the you know, he's a trainer trader Joe's or the farmer's market. He's like, hey, you know, I'm on this podcast and and deficiating and rules. Oh really, you know what, Travis, could you ask this question? And I've always wondered this, you know, while they're looking at, you know, cantalopes. But so let's go, let's shift gears a little bit. Let's

talk about Detroit Chicago. This was an interesting and interesting scenari at the end of the game. And we always talk about we talk about the two minute drill. We talk about hurry up offense ball mechanics, and this was a play where Detroit is down, they're out of time outs that they were inside of twenty seconds and and Kenny Golladay catches a pass. He's hit, his progress is stopped at it looks like you probably could be the twenty six, maybe the twenty seven yard line, but their

sixteen seconds left at the end of the down. He gets up and he runs the ball into the hash and he puts the ball down on the Now he even being generous, we give him the twenty six with progress probably closer to but he puts the ball down on The umpire is going to spot the football most of the time in that hurry up. The umpire comes down, the center actually picks up the football and hands it

to the umpire. The umpire does look mechanically. What has to happen is the umpire should look to the line of scrimmage official, the wing official to get the spot, and the umpire does look, but it happened so quickly that he just puts the ball down almost just shy the so gave the lines a little bit of of

room there. But again mechanically, and what the umpire actually does is and they're taught to do this if time is of the essence and you can't get back into the offensive backfield because their normal position is in the offensive backfield opposite the referee, probably tend to twelve yards deep.

The umpire in this situation actually went to the old spot in the defensive backfield because anticipating a spike play, you want to get out of the way, get out of the operation, don't don't interrupt the operation of the snap and get out of the way. So he went to he went to the defensive backfield, but again he did look, but he really didn't put the ball in the right spot. And and look, it's really easy for us to look at this on tape and watch it

there in the moment. It's a fire drill. That's the that's where officials, you know, everyone earns their money. There where no time outs. Offenses rushing to the line. He's got to look see the spot, put the ball down, get out of the way. They're gonna snap it. I think, gotta make sure everybody gets set spike it. It's such a hectic situation. But again that's what that's what the mechanics are, and so him going into the defensive backfield

is okay in that instance. But what we would talk to players about and coaches about is, especially when a ball is when the ball is dead outside the hash or outside the numbers right, you want to you want that receiver, that ball carrier to look for an official and it's gonna be typically the umpire look for an official.

Don't throw the ball to the to the sideline. Don't throw the ball to the official on the sideline, because now you throw the ball to that official, that official if they catch it, if they have good hands, and not every official has good hands. If they have good hands, they're gonna throw that ball back into the middle of the field or have to it to the umpire. So you're gonna waste time. So what Gold they did was smart. He ran it to the hash because that's where the

umpire met him. But he's got a hand the ball. He should hand the ball to the umpire, don't put it down. Hand the ball to the umpire and uh and if the umpire is not there, his last resort put the ball down. But again, don't throw the ball out to the boundary, move it into the hash and uh and that will be the quickest and most efficient way to get the ball spotted, because they gotta get

lined up. Because in that situation, if the if the Lions don't get lined up and everybody gets set for first second and they snapped the ball, guess what we got a false start ten second runoff. Lions fans don't want to be reminded of that rule and uh. And in that instance, probably with the ball down, there was about nine seconds ten nine seconds, game over. And you know, as it stood, Chicago did hold on and and the yard yard and a half didn't. It wasn't of consequence,

but it could have been. Who knows, if that's the line the game and they give him a first down. All of those things happened, but it happened so quick. When I saw that, I just laughed, because it's like some most old schoolyard stuff, like you're out on the playground and you're like, oh no, no, I'm down here

years back. So if if the referees, can they get involved there and say and and just they don't need to like go to replay necessarily, but can they just say no, no, I'm gonna look see where that the guy is, stop the clock for a second, get it on the ready they placed it at the right spot, and then go That's a good question because look with with ten nine eight seven Sexons, the last thing you want to do as a cruise stop the clock because

now you've given. Now you've given the Lions, and again Lions fans are not gonna want to you know, because they they're gonna sit there and go, hey, we need one you we've break in in in in this instance. But the last thing you want to do is stop the clock because now you've stopped the game. It's a time out basically, and that's a real advantage, especially for the offense trying to get lined up. So the last thing, and I think look that they did the best they could.

You wish that the umpire when he looked if we I can't I haven't seen the all twenty two. I don't know where the line of scrimmage Official was you know, maybe he maybe he missed the spot, maybe he was at I don't know, but he should look up and see where that spot is and put the ball down. But again, in that hurry up, the last thing you want to do is stop the clock. I mean that they're they're taught to. You know, you're taught even on

line of games. If the line of game is in question, rule on it, make it a first down or not. Don't stop the game unless you absolutely have to, because you are creating a time out in a situation that can be a huge advantage for a team. So we should have a class. Maybe u c l A. R USC wants to to offer a class where Dean Blandino teaches the rules of football. Hey, I think they'd be great. So who's getting a call from river on tomorrow. What

do you mean which where he missed spotted the ball? Well, I think that's something that the crew will go over. I think the crew will talk about that. Look, every crew when their game is over, depending on if if officials, if officials can get out that that night, they'll tend to get out that, you know, get to the airport. If they're staying over, they'll meet as a crew at the hotel and they'll go through the game. Um, if they don't stay over, each official has a copy of

the game. They leave the game, they're reviewing it on the plane home. However, they're getting home, they're looking at it. So so I think the crew is gonna gonna review that. I'm sure the office, our river n a supervisor, somebody will talk to the to the crew, the umpire just about, hey, what happened, what was you know, mechanically, here's here's what we saw. Give us your you know, give us your take on what happened, and they'll just talk through it.

And again that's something that officials drill. That two minute, that two minute hurry up is such a it's such a hectic, hectic situation. That's something they would get downgraded on. Now, you know, mechanically, I don't think it looks it looks bad like like in a vacuum. You know, you want to go, oh my god, he god, they ran and

gave himself two yards. But when you take a factor in into everything that has to happen there and the pressure and and really what the umpire what he's focusing on is I need to get the football down and I need to get the heck out of the way, and then I have to you know, they're gonna you're you're anticipating a spike play, but you gotta make sure, Hey, does the does the center snap at clean? Is there

a false start? All of these things and literally the plans at sixteen seconds and he has the ball putting it down at ten seconds. It's not a lot of time with everything that's happening, and so I wouldn't I wouldn't downgrade officials for that. But it's definitely a learning it's a learning experience. It's it's definitely a play that you can learn from and talk about and show for other crews to talk about what what we would do in this situation and how we can, you know, be

more efficient or just make it cleaner the next time. So, but it's an interesting play, but that's one social media and everyone was gonna take that little snapshot and send it around and go. I feel like the the officials are like more pressure because it's the lions, Like, all right, these guys have already had it rough enough, you know they don't. I don't think the officials think that, But there's so much pressure. There's so much pressure on in

every game. But I think we'll talk about that later with the pressure and everything. We're definitely gonna talk about that. We're definitely gonna talk about that. But hey, let's take a break. When we come back. We're gonna talk about everybody's favorite subject. We got another Hall of Fame quarterback tweeting, and we're gonna talk about past inference review next on

good Calls. All right, welcome back. Let's uh, let's continue the discussion, talk a little past the Freanture review and and this is becoming, you know, kind of a thing. This year two thou nineteen is the is the year of the Hall of Fame, the current Hall of Fame quarterback or the future Hall of Fame quarterback tweeting about something that happened. This was Monday Night football on not

Thursday night. Monday Night. John It's Cowboys, uh. Our colleague at Fox Sports, Troy Aikman tweeted during the game, Travis Troy. I have to say, Troy said, Harley has a lot to address this offseason. Is consumer confidence continues to wane. And ye know that that's a pretty those are pretty strong.

That's a pretty strong sentiment from somebody that is obviously so well respected in the NFL Hall of Famer and and still obviously has a big presence with the game, you know, being the lead analyst, uh for for us at Fox on NFL coverage, and and really I think that I think the driver behind Troy's tweet was probably a combination of things, but it was you know, there was a play in the game where where the it was I think it was Shadobe a woozy who played

through Evan Ingram's back, and Pat Sherman, who has not had good luck with these past in afferance reviews, because I think he's had a couple that looked looked clear that he didn't get overturned. You know, Pat throws the flag, the call in the field stands, and it looked to me like like a woozy was playing through Ingram's back,

and that was past infuriance. And then a couple of days later you get DeAndre Baker, the defensive back for the Giants, the rookie um he gets called for past inference, a pretty big you know penalty I think it was yards and it looked like minimal contacts. So so there's frustration there and this was this was there was an article Travis that you shared with me that Kevin Seafort from ESPN, you know, and he talked to He talked to John Parry, who is a former referee that is

now doing rules analysis for free ESPN. He talked to Glenn Johnson, who was the the former vice president officiating for the Canadian Football League and the CFL actually has been reviewing past inference for several years and and and Glenn talked about the growing pains and how how really how tough it was the first couple of years for them, and and the impact and John Parry talked about this as well, the impact that the review process has had

on the on field official. And we talked about this earlier in the season, and this was a concern and I talked to my prayer about this, and we had the same concern is that we've created different standards. There's an on field standard for past interference and that cannot change. The rule is written for the on field officials to make decisions in real time, and so they're making their decision and now they're seeing calls go to review and and some that look like clear cut past inference that

are not getting overturned. So if I'm an official, I'm going, Okay, they're not overturning that. I don't need to call that, right, or I'm or I'm calling something and then I see it overturned and and so there's this this standard of on the field. Then there's a standard of of in replay what is clear and obvious enough to overturn. And

then there's a standard inside of two minutes. Where we saw two plays on Sunday, the last play of the Arizona Tampa game where where Arizona is behind Kyler Murray throws a pass and it looked like there was contact before the ball arrived, potentially through the back, no flag. And then you had a fourth down play in the Rams Steelers game where it looked like there was past inference in the end zone or at least contact that

might have been pasting inference not playing the ball. And I think in both of those and I feel, and I feel pretty strongly in this statement. I feel like in both of those plays, if the flag was thrown, the call would not be overturned and replay. But since the flag wasn't thrown, the call is not being created and replace. So you have two standards, and some people say, look, it's either past inference or it isn't. And that's when

you start reviewing subjective calls. You create these different levels, and I think that's what's affecting. It's affecting people that are watching the game. Like Troy said, you know, the consumer confidence, and I think it's starting to it's starting to to kind of seep into the official on the field and their psyche as to they're seeing these decisions being made in replay. You always, always, always try to tell the officials, look, don't worry about replay. Call the game.

Replay will come in and fix something that needs to be fixed. Would you call the game. I think it's getting really hard to separate those two when you talk about these subjective calls, you know, And there's even there was even a place Sunday night where where Marie Cooper it was I think the Cowboys third touchdown where it looked like he made an unbelievable catch control two feet down, but look like he pushed off. The Vikings were complaining

automatic automatic review score and play not stopped. And again I think that's a play where if the flag is down, it doesn't get overturned in replay. I think they stay with past an affairance offensive passengers, but they don't create it and replay again. Another example, different standards. You think it's getting to the confidence of the guys and replay too, that they're like, I'm not gonna call this one down or yeah, you know that the standard has been what

they've done, what they've told the replay officials. If you can't see it on the line feed, which is the live shot, if it doesn't jump out on the line feed, then you're not going to stop the game to review it. And uh, you've always said you don't want to create it in yeah, and and so and again it comes back to on Sunday night football, you might have a very good camera and go right away that shows contact.

And then on Sunday afternoon football you might not have that look and you might just have the live shot. And so again it's a it's a different standard. And and I think the Competition Committee and that's why they were so hesitant to change this rule, Why it took several years, why it took a a what look a catastrophic mistake in the NFC Championship game to get this rule passed. But but I don't think that this was even I don't even think the coaches were on board

with this when it was passed. I think the coaches wanted to go more to a video official sky judge concept. And uh and and I think this is something. Look, we're only we're almost done with Week ten. We had going into the week, we had sixty two reviews, nine were overturned. That's a very low percentage. And uh and so far through we you know the game so far in week ten there were two reviews, one was overturned. Um, I just this is gonna be really interesting how this

plays out the rest of the way. Dee, Do I know that the officials all traveled together like their their crew, right? Is the replay official included in that crew? Yeah, so the replay official is part of the crew. You have. You have seven officials on the field that travel together. You have a replay official and a replay assistant that are attached to that crew. So there's so there's really nine people that are traveling together weekend in week out.

Now there are changes throughout the season schedule, conflicts, injuries, whatever, but for the most part, that that nine person crew is gonna work together, and you want to build that continuity. We've had this conversation about the postseason, right They this all star crew concept where they break up the cruise going into the postseason. We'll have a whole discussion about

that once we get to the postseason. But that crew continuity is really important, and that communication between replay official the referee. But with New York involved in the folks in New York, um, that's an it's an added layer. I think that that could play into it. You and I are friends with you know, you can travel around the country, you work with people. The last thing I want is you've given me giving me stuff one night. Hey, you know you overturned that p I call, and I

really don't think you should have. You think that that plays into it at all? You know, no, I think I think initially when replay came back, I think there was trepidation on the on field officials with you know, now you have somebody overlooking me immediately, and and and it's gonna be one of my colleagues, it's gonna overturn it. I think the officials on the field want to get it right and and they're not concerned about that. Nobody.

Nobody likes that when they're imagine every decision you make if somebody immediately comes up to you and says thumbs up or thumbs down, right, like nobody would like a thumbs down. But but I just think, yeah, well, yeah, we can talk about Twitter cheeze. But I don't think that that. I think the officials want to get it right, and I just think the standard is really the different standards is the real issue. And it's it's nobody's fault. It's just that when you make these plays, the subjective

calls reviewable. What you can see with the human I can see in real time is different than what we can see with technology and slow motion and multiple camera angles. And that's it. And look, and I'll be honest, I struggled.

I felt like I struggled this weekend. I felt like I struggled a little bit on Saturday with some targeting and that's subjective, and then you're trying to explain those things I thought I struggled with just trying to I feel like my role during the game, I don't like people want to what's your opinion, right, my Well, guess what I can give my opinion all day, and that's fine. And I have a I have an opinion on every play that that's that's not I'm I have an opinion

on every play. But I have to try to explain the rule. Here's what the officials are looking at. Here are the factors that go into the decision. That's that's the first priority. Okay, how are they gonna, what are they gonna What are they gonna look at to make their decision? Then break that down and then give an opinion on Okay, I think it's a pass or I think this and guess what. Sometimes my opinion is going to be different than the replay officials or different than

the people in New York. That's just part of it. But again, when it's so subjective, you know, like I said, I feel like I struggled a little bit just trying to explain things and trying to keep it clear for the people watching as to what goes into these decisions. And uh, and I think it's just part of you know, it's part of the evolution of as the game changes, as rules changes, as we all try to get better. And that's something you know that I'll continue to work

on going forward. Um shifting gears a little. I mean, thanks guys for for saying that, Hey, you did appreciate it. Thanks. Okay, So anyway, I didn't feel like I had to solicit that, but I'm great. Um So two plays, this was interesting. Let's talk about some rules for a second. There were two plays, um where coaches through the red flag when they weren't allowed to and and and so they got charged time outs. And the first one was was Tampa. In that in that Arizona Tampa game where Bruce arians

he was out of challenges. He he challenged to play early in the game, won it on a on a play that was ruled to catch and down and it was actually a fumble. And then he challenged a past interference that he probably shouldn't have challenged because I didn't think there was any way he was winning that challenge. And why these why some some coaches have been upset about the the impossibly high standards, because I'm I'm I'm risking challenges that I may need later in the game

in time out. So he loses the second challenge. Now he's done for the game. And and as luck would have it, you have a play a little bit later where Kyler Murray is is is being tackled. He throws the pass. They rule pass he's actually down and Tampa can't challenge. So Bruce, who's emotional lot of times, he throws the red flag. Now you can't challenge that because you're out of challenges. So it's a time out. If you don't have a time out, it's a fifteen yard penalty.

This goes back to This is called the Jim Schwartz rule. This goes back to two thousand twelve Thanksgiving Day Houston, Detroit where Justin for Sett is down, but he gets back up, runs for a touchdown. The officials miss him being down. Schwartz emotional challenge, sees him down, throws the flag. At that time it was a fifteen yard penalty, and then you couldn't review the play. You couldn't review the place,

so the touchdown stood when it was clearly down. And on top of that, and this is why Lions fans are so jaded is because that rule was just That rule was so That rule was so I'm gonna use a big word here, Joe, that rule was so draconian in terms of in term, look it up. I'll take his disrespect. So we were quoting forty or virgin um. So that rule was so that penalty was so bad We've we talked about after we said, no way, we

have to be able to review it. We changed the rule after that where it's gonna be a charge time out if you have a time out. If you don't have the time out fifteen but you still have to be able to review the play. If you don't have any timeouts left, is it then if you don't have any timeoutse left, then it's a fifteen yard penalty. UM. So that was the one situation. Then Sean McVeigh, and this is this I can understand because this is a

new rule. There was an interception that was negated by a penalty and uh and Sean McVeigh because it was outside two minutes through the challenge flag. But the new rule this year is even if the turnover is negated by a penalty, the turnover basically triggers the automatic review and and so he was not allowed to challenge that play. He threw the flag, so he was charged a time out. So it's interesting, you know the rules and the breakdown

and and just the evolution of those rules. But I think the biggest thing is you don't want coaches because you don't want coaches throwing red flags when they're not entitled to. The big one is inside two minutes, because the coach could throw off a challenge flag inside two minutes, get the get the play stopped and go oh, I didn't realize that was not revealable. And now he you know, he gets to change his defense. He got a time out for his offense. And that's why you have those

rules in place. Um, but you know, I think the one I think Bruce. I think Bruce knew the rule. It was just emotional. I think Shawn would have been a little a little more understandable because it is a new rule. And I think normally when that play did not ultimately result in a turnover, that the coach can still challenge outside two minutes. I feel like Bruce's he might be a premature challenger. I feel like we're constantly we get a lot of flags from him. He's been,

but he's been. You should let him know. I'm available for work. For work, No, but he's got a guy, he's he was tearing it up. He won a couple of challenges. I feel like they're they've been doing a good job. Um, you know, I just think that that was one that past inference that he challenged. I don't think I think it was his dB and Larry Fitzgerald. I thought the dB grabbed Fitzgerald's arm on the inside. Again. Is it? You know, is it the Is it the

biggest past inference in the world. No, But you gotta understand as a coach right now, really any kind of contact they've stayed away from, overturned those calls and and and that's kind of where the standard is. And he should have kept that flag in his pocket. And uh, and you know, and he knows, he'll he'll be be the first one to tell you that, um, you know, with a couple of f bombs, but that he shouldn't

have flagged. He should have thrown the flag. So all right, but let's uh, let's take a break and uh we'll come back. We'll talk college football, We'll talk a little uh some stuff that happened in the cube this weekend, go inside the brain of blindno and maybe uh, maybe settle a rule, have a rules discussion about supermarkets next. I'm good calls, welcome back, good calls, and talked NFL. Let's talk college football. Let's let's do a quick, real quick CFP rankings. None of us, Joe think so I

was nobody was right. We all had our four teams. Nobody got all four. Joe did have the number one team in the country. But I think we all all missed out on Penn State. But I don't think Penn State is going to be a factor this week because they lost to Minnesota. Wrote the boat p J. Fleck. But who's your top four, Joe? Who you got? Ohio State, L s U, Clemson, Georgia Bulldogs. Okay, Travis, I'm going

to Ohio State. I saw what they did last last time, and I won't go with my heart and say because of the champions they should be a one like I did last week. But what I think it's gonna be this week Ohio State, L s U, Clemson. I think Bama stays in there for oh Okay, so I think we're all gonna be different. I've got I've got L s U one. I mean the big win. Ohio State beat Maryland, UM scored like a million, L s U beat beat Alabama. So I think I got L s U,

how State Clemson, And then I agree with Travis. I don't think Bama drops out of the top four. I think they stay close game to you know, not number two verse number three. I think they stayed Number four.

In Georgia, I think is five. But okay, let's go to that game L S L s Obama, And the most talked about play from that game from an at least officiating standpoint was Dadius Moss's catch um in the in the second quarter, near the end of the half, down near the goal line, and it was it's really a it's a complicated play and I think, you know, I wish that that the announcement would have been a little bit and I'm not gonna say better, but I think some more information would have been would have been

helpful because the ruling out of field was was a catch and what ultimately went to review and the ruling on the field was not changed. They stayed with a catch, and there was just a lot of discussion as to why was that a catch because Moss stepped out of bounds re established and was the first to touch. Well, what they ruled on the field, they ruled that he

was forced out of bounds. So in college, if the player's fourth the receiver's forced out of bounds, then he can come back in re established with a body part and be the first to touch. So that's what they ruled. There was contact by the defender that the contact is not reviewable, but whether he re establishes and whether he catches the past is And he did reestablish and he did appear to catch the past, but the contact would not be reviewable. So that's what they ruled. On the field.

It was people were questioning that because they people that understand the mechanics. And the official didn't drow his hat and and we talked about this, I think last week when when official as a player out of bounds, he's gonna throw his hat and he didn't throw his hat. But there was a discussion on the field. There was a discussion with the replay official and what they ruled was that he was forced out. So so that's what that's what took place. That's why that call was not

was not overturned. Interesting side note about Thadius Moss. Who's Thadius Moss's dad. So Randy Moss is good dude. He worked with us at Fox Sports and it was at one of our seminars and he told a story that I every time I think of it, I could I laughing. And so Randy is a big fisherman. Randy is is from West Virginia, I believe, and he's a big fisherman. And and so he was telling the story that he was watching this this special on like Discovery, and it

was about the Megalodon. Now, the Megalodon is the prehistoric shark that was supposedly you know, there was a movie the meg with Jason Stathon, which was ridiculous by the way, Um, like I watched it, I loved it, but it was ridiculous the stuff that that Jason Stathon did in that movie. But Megaldon is a prettiest dark shark you could go

to fifty sixty feet. And so the way Discovery Channel, I believe, did this documentary, they did it like these these marine biologists were actually really looking for the Megalodon and they found the megalodon off the coast, off the coast of of South Carolina. And and so if you're watching this, they did it to where it was almost

like it was real. So Randy telling the story that he's watching this and he thought that the Megalodon was real, and he didn't go fishing for like a month, like in the he wouldn't go in the ocean because he thought the megalodon was in the ocean. I think I think one of his friends was finally like, you know, that's not that's that's extinct, right, And and so I was crying because I watched it with my son. It

was hit him. I don't do it justice him telling the story is amazing, is amazing, um, but really, you know, shifting gears more serious note that we did get you know, we got word that the Pack twelve actually suspended a referee from the from the Washington State cal Game um for a misinforced penalty. And and Travis, you you you saw the kind of the release. What what was kind

of summarizing for us. Yeah, so they just they just talked about how the play was misofficiated or poorly inficient officiated. Where the the guy got the got the return was on the kickoff Returney went and returned to the fifty. They called I think it was Hans to the face and it would have been a spot foul. So they had a spot foul at like the sixteen or something,

so they took him back to the eight yard line. However, they said it was on the receiving team, but it was against the kicking team, so it should have been the ball from the fifty yards tacked on, so they would have had at the thirty five yards. So it was Washington State. Washington State was was the return team and cal was kicking off. So this went. This went against Joe's so annoyed. This went against Washington State. And yeah, so it was it was the hands to the face

and they enforced on the wrong team. So instead of and and you think about the difference in yards, how does the coach not catch that? Well, you know it's they coach. They they enforced it on the wrong team. And look and and this this goes back to you know, the people say officials aren't held accountable. Look the Pack twelve suspended this, you know, suspended the referee. I mean

that they are held accountable. And that's the other officials are downgraded and and the other officials were downgrade on the crew. And that's when when you talk about penalties and enforcements people, you know, as a supervisor as as of officiating, I always I could live with mistakes of judgment.

You know, that's going to happen. And you know, things I didn't I didn't tolerate were you know, miss misinforcing a penalty, misapplying a rule, um communication, you know, poor communication with a coach, with a player, those types of things. But that's a that's a significant situation the PAC twelve obviously, you know, and this is this is all part of this new transparency and being more open about issues with officiating.

And they and they suspended that referee. So it you know, it's it's never Look, it's never a good thing when you have to do that, because you have you have officials that imagine going out and doing your job and now you gotta worry about you. I'm gonna get suspended. I potentially could get fired. And I know we all you know in all of our work that that that that you know, not doing a good job. We could

eventually get fired. But it's just hard, it's hard to do that and uh and be under that type of scrutiny. So but but Joe, you know, Joe has a Joe has an invested interest in in the He had an invested interest in the cow Washington State game. We'll just put it that way. And UH, and the game didn't go his way some Washington state. So hey, Mike Leach, al right, so let's let's go, let's go in the cube and let's talk about you know, we spend you know,

we were we were together Friday night. Uh, we were together all day Saturday and then and then on Sunday and then there's a lot of good conversations. But I think two that stood out for me, and they were both kind of NBA related, was we had the discussion imagine, imagine in the n b A if we took all the referees away and it was call your own fouls, just just who who would be the biggest who would

be the biggest jackass? Like what NBA players? I think Harden, I think hard I think Harden would be dude, that's a walk and he'd be like no, and then he would come up foul like and then I was like, game point, you're gonna call that. You're you're gonna think about Tuesday night, Tuesday, pick up two and pick up one. You know, I'm a shout out chick. I called one. There's four to five arguments every game, like full on, stop the game, we're gonna argue about they're huge brawls

every game. But could you imagine that's where people need, we need officials, people imagine I would But although I said it, if we could have like one week or one every team place one game, I would watch those. You would would be the most watch games. Imagine calling your own fouls. How unbelievable. Just think about the last minute the game's closed. Get it. Believe every foul gets called, you get touched, be off. I would watch, just gonna say,

Rob Chicken, shout out Ohio State guy. Right, we happen to have a go pro. I don't somebody brought a go pro that game. I called one foul and it I'm still hearing about it years. They were reviewing the reason. Okay, it's a pickup game on Tuesday and or most of each and they gotta go pro that's number one. But but they're still talking about the foul, no foul, and oh my god, I would be amazing. I don't have to have those games. And I think he said to me,

and I thought it was no foul. I think you um So then then we were talking that the Laker game was on, and I, I guess I just haven't paid enough attention I'm a Knicks fan, haven't paid enough enough attention to the Lakers. But Alex Caruso, I just I hadn't really paid much attention to him. Like he he looks like he's forty five years old. He does

right there. What we thought would be a great idea is to have Alex Caruso and Hunter renfro If we had those two like on a podcast, but they could present it as like they were former professional players, like former athletes doing a podcast about their days. They're both like and and literally if you didn't know and you saw these guys on a podcast and it was like, oh, those guys were former players, Like okay, cool, let's what

do they have to say? And they're literally like in the first three years of their career, second years a rookie and he and they and they're both good, like Rent Froze, like a stuff. They're both really you know, you would think you'd smoke that dude in the foot race. That's the thing. Like you you would see certain professional athletes like you see them at a bar and like, dude, that guy he plays he plays for the Raiders of like shut he's three years old and he's and he

and he was crushing Clemson. But I just think that it's maybe it's the hairline. But hims dot com to have to have a podcast of those two. Um, all right, let's let's go to a rule. Let's break down, and we've all been affected by this, and I think we need to we need to implement a rule. So we're gonna We're gonna get the rules committee together. Supermarket, ten items are less, fifteen items are less? Okay, what is the rule? Because I know I've been online and I've

seen people. Look and I'm not saying I've never broken the rule, and I'm not saying that. Look, it's like the speed limit, right wet, the speed limit will accept? What will we accept before you get a ticket? I'll speed, but I won't I won't do the things you don't like. See, Travis would never like Travis. I'll tell you this, Travis. If it's Ted Travis, if Travis is eleven, he'd go to the because he doesn't like to be made to feel uncomfortable and he doesn't like when people like watch,

oh my god, you have him so uncomfortable, uncomfortable. So so I'm okay, Travis, you're different. But but in general, what is the rule? I'm okay. Like to me, here's all I feel. It's it's not necessarily items. To me, it's a scam. It's not ten items, it's ten scans. Okay, that's that's your that's your rule book definition. I think that's six pack. Six pack is one scan. If you buy seven cucumbers that only counts as one, or if you and they have to put it down and weigh

it all is one, then I'm fine. Even if you buy like four gallons of milk. I think they only scan it one time. They scan out once, they put in times four and we're good. I'm good with that. I just I'm not if if to me, I can live, my limit is if it's ten items or less. You can go to fifteen and I'll live. If you go. If you go sixteen and above, what and I won't you really like to get me fired up to say something. It really has to be a lot, But my body language, oh I will, I will sigh at you and I

will roll my eyes like nobody's business. I think it's perfectly illegal. I think I think if you go, if you go, if it's ten items or less and you get to fifteen. Then the people behind you should all count everything. Everyone get seventeen, eighteen and count. I think it's also based on geography. If you're if you're in a really nice area, people generally are gonna say anything. I was. The way this came about is I was in Santa Monica, in your Dean's house. It's a nice area.

Lady has one items, she went one over, keep going now, sorry, I was so frustrated, but I just crossed the arms and the arms is it? That's the start of it. It's almost im like I start huffing. It was staring through the and they know, like they know she would not look they know she wouldn't make Yes, I had two items, can you You should have been like, hey, I see that you have a few more than I can.

I just jump ahead of you that I couldn't do it because she wouldn't look at me, because she knew, like I could feel, she could feel me just burning a hole through with my eyes. And we'll get into I don't want to. I don't want to like send the conversation that the rules. The rule is you getent in buffer get you get you get five anything above that And I feel like that, and I like the counter people need to police it. It's like to me, it's like a gate agent, like sir, no, you don't

need extra time to board like to the back. So Santa Monica lady, you were pretty at all, but there it is no good. All right, let's uh, let's go inside the brain of Blandino de here we go. How did Matt Damon agree to Scotty doesn't know? God? Okay, yes, perfect? So this is one of to me, it's one of the most underrated comedies of all time. Euro Trip. Have you guys seen Travis Travis? Thank god? Because half the time I know the song too, But I don't think

we have the right for me to sing. Can't you can sing it? We just need to know that Fiona and exactly in every week exactly So to me, like euro Trip is not it's not a a a list cast, right, It's not. It's not. And Matt Damon just has this cameo as this like grunge, punk rock, whatever you want to call it band. He's the lead singer and he's basically banging the main character's girlfriend, Fiona, and it's he plays he and the song like I love the song. That song is great, Like I listened to it in

in in my car whatever on the phone. But who how did that happen? Like how did who was the like Caup He's like, was did Matt Ohe the director of Favor and was like, hey, Matt, what do you like the eighteenth of April? What are you doing? Are you? Are you free? You want to come and just film the scene? Like what how did Matt Damon end up in euro Trip for that that role? Explain it to me, tryal well, I can't explain it to you. I'm trying to look at the cast and crew to see who

maybe would have a connection. But I don't know the best actors, like one of the best actors that we have going today, like Matt Damon, doesn't Matt Damon like that? It was all ben Affleck at Damon. They did good will hunting together. To me, Ben Ben ben Affleck can't hold a candle to Matt Damon and Matt Damon just he's got like a like a neck tattoo and he's and he's singing this punk rock song. How Travis explained to me, So that's that's your job. Before the end

of the football season. You need to tell me how Matt Damon ended up playing that to start looking at alec Berg. Alec Berg though alec Berg is a big producer. Maybe it's an Alec Burke Burke connection. That could be it. That's your lead, Okay, first forty eight tracks. If you don't solve in the first forty eight the lead, that goes away, so you got it to go with it? Show is it. It's an unbelievable first forty It's amazing. If I watched the first forty eight seconds of the

first forty eight episode, I'm in You're blocked in. It's like it's like lone on the SPU all right. And then lastly, I just d M of the Week. To me, this is a combination of things. This is this is somebody tweeted this at me and I I was laughing my ass off when you read it in the studio. I read it in the studio, and this was this goes out to his His name is Fred will Ponzi, and so that it's a it's a it's a play on words. It's Fred Wilpon was the GM of the Mets.

The Mets, they were involved, was involved with Bernie made off Ponzi scheme. They so so it's at Wilponsi and so he he tweeted me, Dean, do you watch good Fellas or Sopranos to get this material? Now? I had tweeted a picture of um the Godmother from Base Cities, which is an Italian delhi in Santa Monica. We ordered twenty sandwiches for the crew, and so I tweeted a picture out. So he responded, Dean, do you watch good

Fellows or Sopranos to get this material? Also? I always ordered the Gobba gooule and the Musca rule when I go to d M but in in in the ainos, but they only take cash? Did you pay them for that food? By analyzing NFL rules from the Wikipedia article, I rewrote this morning so hilarious, right, I mean, racist is all help, but it's hilarious. He's making fun. Blah blah blah blah blah. So I retweeted it and he he sent me up. He sent me a slid in your d M. He slid in my d M s

and he's like, hey, Dean, what a good sport. I was clowning like a Twitter troll and you just turned into an annoying in my book by taking that nonsense for a ride. Hats off, sir. So we responded, Hey no, I was like, no problem, and now we're friends, Me and Fred Wilponzi, killing with kindness again, changing changing line, changing lives, shaking hands. Hopef. We got a lot of eight to ten year olds listening to this and they learned a lot of lessons exactly exactly. Um, we're done,

We're done. That's a show show all right, guys, this has been Good Calls with Dean Blandino. Please follow on Twitter at Dean Blandino and on Instagram at Dean dopp Landino. Follow the show on i gene, Twitter at rols podcast, and be sure to radar podcast on the I R Radio app on Apple podcast. Good Calls with Dean Blandino is a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.