ep 37-Thoughts on NFL Rooney Rule proposal, most controversial calls in NFL history, and what Michael Jordan and Dean’s brother have in common

which is Matt Milan, and who's Kevin Kevin Coogler. We check in with Matt and Kevin. And I know Matt Milan going back years from when he was with the NFL with the Lions in the NFL Competition Committee. We always like to check in. And Bart's like, okay, all right enough with the pleasant trees. So looks and I never know if he's serious or not. Either he's I mean, he's not doing in the meat way, but I think he's kind of I think it's become like a thing

now and uh, but let's go, let's get right into it. Um, let's talk a little, let's talk a little NFL obviously, this was this was big news, UM, the the proposed changes and UH additions, I guess to the Rooty rule. We talk about minority hiring in the NFL, and and so UM you know this this is a significant the potential for this, the NFL proposals that will be put forth to membership and voted on UM A lot of

discussion around minority hiring. You think about the minority head coaches in the NFL, there are only four, UM who were the four right, Mike Tomlin, Brian Flores, Anthony Lynn, and Ron Ribert. You think about gms in the NFL, only two minority gms Andrew Berry with with Cleveland and Chris Greer with with Miami. So obviously when you talk about those numbers not not very good. The NFL has not done a great job in this year and never

had a never had a black team president. UM. And and I think this is something that you know, my former colleague Troy Vincent at the NFL has this is a big, big thing for him, and I know he's been working tirelessly on this. And and so I'm interested in what you guys think because I've read so much about this and I get it. I get what the

NFL is trying to do. But when you start, when you start incentivizing teams UM to make minority hirings with draft positions, all right, you're talking about moving up if you hire a minority head coach or my minority GM, you're moving up draft positions. In the third round, it was something like three picks for a head coach and ten picks for a GM six I think for a head coach, ten GM UM compensatory fourth round picks if you lose UM, if you lose a minority in terms

of to another team. So so I've heard mixed reactions and the one reaction that that kind of that kind of resonated with me. There were two that jumped out. I don't know if you saw if you saw Anthony Lynn's comments, Um, you know Anthony Lynda had coach of the Chargers, who's who is like we mentioned one of the minority head coaches. You know, he said, sometimes, um, you can do the wrong, wrong thing when you're trying to do the right thing. And I think that was

that that kind of hit me. And then and then Lewis Riddick. Lewis Riddick from from ESPN, who who has worked in front office before who has interviewed recently for GM GM positions and hasn't been able to secure a position. And he was even more outspoken and he said it was it was actually, um, you know, it was demeaning in a way. It was insulting in a way to an African American candidate to say that I was no

longer being considered on my own merits. I was being considered because of the potential rewards and and it's kind of you know, this is a tough spot. It's a tough thing. What what do you guys, just at first glance,

what do you think? Um, you know about this? I have to think that that these guys being like, you know, head coaches and athletes and you know, former athletes and now going into coaching, like you don't want to feel like you're getting something and getting something extra because of who you are, Like, oh, okay, well you get to shoot your free throws a little bit closer than than you than these other guys. You got to shoot your your shots a little bit closer. Like you don't want that,

you want working on How long are you working on that? Analogy? Travis, I actually just came up with it Now, I didn't know you were going to bring thing about the free throw analogy. You're like, what could be what could be a good way, you know, to to to elaborate on this. I'm just trying to dumb it down so Joe will understand that's all. Well it we definitely do we do? You know? So like you don't these guys, Yeah, did

you hear Joe? I can't even hear him. This might cut down you to them in the middle of your bad analogy, but yeah, so you just have to think that these guys don't want to have to feel like they're getting, you know, something out of the deal because of that. And to me it's it's like, yeah, like Lynn said, you you you definitely want to have you don't want to have that kind of you don't want you don't want to have that kind of thing on that. Yeah,

I think. Look, but I think if this and and you know the Fritz Pollar, the Fritz Pollo alliance, which which works you know Cyrus Mary and and and Rob Graves now at that alliance that they work in this space and working with the NFL for a long time in terms of minority hiring and the bottom line is is that when you talk about a league that is that I don't know what the actual percentages, but when you talk about a league that is that is a majority African American on the field, and then you look

at the numbers in front office positions, Um, that's an issue. And and you can't force people meeting the owners to hire,

you know, someone that they don't want to hire. But how do we create an environment where where where African Americans and other minorities are getting these opportunities And I think anything Lynn mentioned, you know, and Lewis Riddick mentioned, you know, getting having more opportunities for these minority candidates to get in front of owners in a social setting, you know, whether it's at a league meeting or a leak sanctioned event where they can in a more of

a relaxed atmosphere get to know these people. Because the bottom line is you're gonna hire someone you're comfortable with, and can you get truly comfortable with someone meeting them for the first time and having a two or three hour interview, you know, it's versus someone that I know, someone that I've been around, someone that I've had an interaction with and that's why we end up seeing this cycle, this recycling of coaches, you know, this carousel, and you

look at head coaches that have been around that that you know, they weren't successful at one organization and then they get a reboot in another, and it seems that most of it, most of them are white head coaches or white gms. And and how do you how do

you create you know, a more inclusive pipeline. And that's something you know, it's a challenge, and it's something that I think this proposal, if this further is the conversation, and this creates more thoughtful and more thoughtful approach to this. And maybe it's not this rule, but maybe this this conversation leads to something that people can agree upon or people that doesn't involve draft picks. I don't know, I don't know what the answer is. Um, if we knew

the answer, then that we wouldn't have this issue. You know, we've dealt with it. We've dealt with on the officiating side and hiring practices and and minority officials, female officials. That's why we're gonna bring that question up. Do you think this has anything to do with opening up the minority candidates for females as well, not just no question.

And I'll tell you listen if you think the NFL has been behind in terms of minority, in terms of African American hirings in front office, they are way behind when it comes to female When I'm sitting in a in an in an executive vice president meeting UM at the NFL, and I look around and there are one, maybe two women in the room and there's thirty people in the room. Um, there are when you limit yourself, And that's the thing. Yes, we want to hire the

best people. We want people to be hired on their own merits, not how they look. But the thing is, when you hire from one group and everybody looks the same and everybody thinks the same, and everybody has the same experience, you are limiting yourself. You're limiting your You're limiting the ideas and the potential by bringing people from different backgrounds that look different, that that that have a different perspective. And that's the thing. The NFL has such

a long way to go in this area. And I think you know they're they're certainly behind. You look at the NBA. I think they're behind. Um. The NBA baseball has its challenges. Um, you know, certainly the NHL. I mean that is a is a predominantly white sport and uh and so. But again it is a this is a significant issue. And I know the league. This is not a this is not something they just threw together at the last minute. This was this was thought out. But I think when you start talking about award in

draft picks now, it starts to get into that. You know, if I'm if I'm a minority candidate, I think I'm gonna take the same approach as a Lewis Riddick and say, hey, are you are you talking to me? Or are you gonna hire me? Um, you know, with that being a factor versus am I the best person for the job? I don't know. I'm not a minority. I've never walked in those shoes. But but I can understand that point.

And it's it's just such a it's such a polarizing you know, reminds it reminds me of back in like what was it when they're like, you know, we guys start hiring some Italian Americans and that's how that's how you got the job. Glad you brought that up. Joe, because I feel like my people, you know, it's a very it's it's it's not an been discrimination, but it's a very like accepted. It's like it's like an in the closet discrimination. Italian Americans have been have been discriminated against.

What we watch movies? What are we portrayed as? Right? Mobsters? I just watched Molly's game, Right, what are we? What are we? What are we most known for? Our Italian food and pizza and all these things? You know, I'm glad you brought that up, Joe. The fight continues for for me and my Italian American friends. Anything else you want to add to that, Joe, you brought that one up. I'm just saying, you know, we're not a mobsters, And I mean it worked out well for for the hiring

of the Italian Americans. I mean, you're you've done a pretty good job over there. I did. In ninety four, I did get the opportunity to intern with the National Football League. The only reason I got that opportunity is because the girl that worked in HR went to Hopster of University. I went to Hofstra. She didn't know me, but she saw Hofstro on my resume. And she put my resume on top. So right there. I still don't understand how you can say, but you can't say huge,

huge hosts. You just you should be saying hofstro there's it's not it's h oh. I can say h o h u is huge. It just is you grant. I'm sorry, it's just the way it is. Let's move on, Travis talking. Let's give us a run down the I. I briefly looked at the Major League Baseball sixty seven page UM health and Safety I guess proposal. That's really interesting and it was pretty in depth, like health and Safety protocol,

it's kind of what it was, and it was. It was everything from like just no spinning, UM, more severe penalties for for fights. They don't want to have brawls. Obviously, you get a bunch of people in in a group that you have a higher chance of of of spreading the virus if someone were to have it. UM. You have people that in the dugouts have to wear masks uh,

team officials. UM. But anyways to get to the point where they could start playing or see people back on the fields, we're talking like mid June possibly in the yeah, in the in the proposal, and this would be bringing like fifty players to either their home ballparks or Florida Arizona facilities. This is all still yet to be worked out. Um, they're like some of the things I saw like people could be uh forced to not take showers. So here's yeah, here's the deal. And and this is gonna be talking

about major league baseball players. And most most mazorally baseball players played the miners and and so they know what it's like. And this it feels like a return more to minor league baseball, where there's there's no showering at the at the stadium. You're either sharing at home or at the at the hotel, so you go right from the game to the hotel or back home. Um, no post game buffets, Um, you talk about players are gonna be would be in the stands six ft apart. Um,

no sunflower seeds, no, none of that. High five No, no high fives. No. You talked about the bench clearing brawls, and certainly there would be. You know, it's hard to say, hey, no bench clearing brawls because somebody gets emotional, somebody reacts. They obviously are going to have very very very severe penalties for bench clearing brawls, almost to the point where they're almost going to, you know, eliminate them with with the fear of these penalties. Well, and think about who

this protecting. What was the being what was the major storyline of the off season, the Astros cheating and all you you heard about all these guys were gonna get beaned, like Bregman and Altobe, Like, if those guys are getting bet, there's no retaliation talking about the Astros not that. Look, I don't want to I don't want to diminish this to too, but let's just talk about if anyone benefited

from COVID nineteen. That's what I'm saying, man, I mean, they have benefited from people, will you know, it will take a while for people to be like, oh yeah, those they cheated one of won a World Series. But this was the story going into the season. They were gonna be they were vilified, they were gonna be villains on the road, they were gonna be booed, they were gonna be beaned. And now I mean they basically gotta pass and it's not gonna be fansom the stands there.

It's interesting, but but it is the whole thing is just fascinating in terms of like, you can't you're trying to legislate contact, right, physical contact, you're trying to to keep that at a minimum. And when you talk about all of these sports, I mean, obviously baseball you wouldn't consider it a contact sport, but you're gonna have plays where you're gonna have a runner on first base, the

first base is not able to hold him on our collisions. Yeah, I don't even think about that, right, like you have to hold that runner on. Is there gonna be no leads? Right? Plays at second base or under still this place, there's gonna be contact. You can't take that away. And forget about football. You can't. Obviously football is a contact sport. Hockey is a contact sport. Basketball, there's there's contact throughout. So you're not gonna be able to play these sports

without contact. And that's why some of the players that I'm reading, they said, look, we get it, the testing, we get we'll go through all the testing protocols, but once we're cleared, let's make it as normal as possible. Right, Because because I don't have it, you don't have it, why can't we just you know why can't we have sunflower receipts and it's it goes to the video you sent us Travis today, I was crying, go on Twitter,

it's Nasau County. This Nasau County official, NASA County tennis ball. Just looking up Nassau County tennis ball protocol. And I grew up in Nassau County, which is which is on Long Island. There's two counties, There's Nasa and Suffolk. Suffolk is further east. Nassau is right next to New York City. And she's standing in front of a of a tennis facility, you know, outdoor tennis courts, with two cops in face masks, and she's explaining the rules regarding tennis batting back on

the court, getting back on the court. And she starts off good because she was referring to them as tennis balls. And then you know, somebody was talking to her saying, all right, Lisa, refer to them as tennis balls, right, don't say, and she immediately goes into balls and she's like, you can kick someone else's balls, but you can't touch them.

And it's like and she can't even keep a straight face. Well, you hear all the media and all the people that are attending the event like laughing and giggling in the two offensives behind her. You can't see their faces, but you can see they're like bodies, like convulsion, as if they're laughing. What are we doing? We're sitting in a room coming up with these rules, spending time. When Joe and I are gonna go play tennis and I'm gonna pick up I'm gonna touch his balls and he's gonna

touch my balls. And that's it. And we're talking about tennis balls and were we've always been talking about phone. When Joe and I play tennis, we touch each other's balls. Okay, it's and and and this is I was gonna together.

Who's gonna police that? Every Friday night? It's in seeing and I understand extraordinary times, but I don't know what to to go back to the MLB in in the balls, like they're gonna use balls like one time, like if if a ball is if a groundball is in play, you know multiple people are going to touch the ball and that ball is going to be out, Like so what is it like half a half of what's the lifetime of a ball? Like half of I mean, there's a there's a pretty good I mean, there's pretty good

turnover anyway, um during games. But I gotta imagine this is gonna be like you can't think about a football game. You can't. You're bringing new footballs in at certain times, but you have hurry up offenses, you have things where you can't just shuffle out of football. If if you know, after every play a basketball people are people are gonna touch balls. It's just gonna happen. When what are you

gonna do with all those baseballs now? If you're just throwing them off the side before they became practice balls and now you're not gonna use them for practice balls either, Right? I think you have to use the balls as much as possible, Travis, And indeed you have to have to use Can we on a serious note, like what kind of an umpire is going to enforce a no spitting ruin baseball? Well, that that's the thing, Like what what are they gonna do? Like what's the penalty? That's so ridiculous?

This is just so overdone exactly, And then that's what I mean, and no one knows, like no one knows for sure, like we still can we let them play, and we don't know. I'm believing. I don't follow it as much. I'm not an expert by any means, but there's no one, no one knows exactly the right protocol, and so I get it. So we're trying to be as cautious as possible, but it's I don't know. At some point, at some point we have to say, okay,

let's let's compromise. The people with with the you know, the weak immune systems, the people that are in that that that range, that are that are at most risk. Those people need to stay in Those people need to stay protected, and everybody else has to make their own decisions. Yeah, these are world class athletes. The flu is not trying to kill him. Michael Jordan played with the flu. Dean No, we'll get into that. Started into that Travis talk. Okay,

what else? What else is going on? I know NASCAR got big ratings. I didn't watch. I'm not a Nascar I've never been, but where the ratings significantly up from what they normally are. I didn't follow that. I just I know they were big and more happy within Fox about it, but you didn't watch it. I didn't catch it either. I thought that was part of your you guys did know? I mean, yeah, I probably probably should have watched it, just you know, to be a company guy.

I was. I was hanging out with the family. We went to the beach actually, which leads me into the next story of Newsome. Governor Newsoman California starting to open things up. Um and he says that that sports could be played in the state of California as early as um early June, so in the next few weeks, obviously without spectators. But yeah, we were out at the beach on Sunday and and it was it was crazy to see half the people had masks, half didn't have masks.

Who Travis, if you're I mean, I commend you to go on to the beach with you, your wife and your eight kids. How what was the breakdown? Did all eight of your kids nobody was wearing masks? So the older ones bear wearing masks. I have two kids in neither wore masks. We didn't wear masks. Um. We kept our distance from people. I didn't spit at all, Um, it didn't. I didn't play with any balls, no, no beach balls, no volleyballs. Which with the crazy thing about

the volleyball. Is they took the nets down at the beach. I was that some people can't even play. I don't know if they've done that at all the beaches, obviously because I haven't been at the beaches, but that, to me was was pretty eye opening. That's my favorite way to play because the boom. But you know, it is it is interesting. I think California when you think about professional sports returning, California is a key state. Um, there's

no I mean I was looking at it. California has right, five baseball teams, four NBA teams, three hockey teams, and three football teams. No other state has that number. So so it is key to returning for all of these leagues. And you know it's it's this is you think about here in l A County. I think Light County is going to be one of the last counties to start to you know, to get back to normal because of the density of the population and a number of you

know what what they're considering a standard for reopening. But there are Look, I think we're I think there's some light at the end of the tunnel. I think that's we've all been waiting for. I gotta I got a text message from my the guy that cuts my hair, that they're going to be opening up, Um, you know

in a in a couple of weeks. You're you're looking at you know, you could have churches, and you could have gyms, and you could have all these other things opening up obviously with revised with revised rules and guidelines. But I think we're starting to see a little bit of a light at the end of the tunnel. So hopefully that means that, you know, the trend is going in the right direction and uh, and we'll get back

to some sense of normalcy soon. Yeah. So then next I'll move to the NHL and and the story that's out there. Obviously, there's a lot of work to be done here, and that's what the sources stress. There's a lot of a lot of work to be done, but they could they could open back up with the twenty four team playoff format, which to me was kind of cool, like, this is kind of what we talked about right away when it first first happened with the pandemic. Is okay, well,

let's just craft the regular season. Let's just let's just get going back up in June or something and just do playoffs, So that's kind of what the NHL is looking at, Like, how would you feel about that? Yeah, you know, I think it's interesting. I did read that

they were talking about. I think the players Association would like to play some regular season games before the playoffs, And I think that makes sense just because think about playoff hockey, like that's that's another level and you now you're taking two two and a half months off and then throwing your body right into that type of intensity. I think for safety reasons, I think it would make sense to at least least play a couple of games. You know, each team play a couple of games, you know,

finish off the standings. But you know, a twenty four team playoff that that that excites the ship out of me because I don't care. Look, NHL playoffs to me is one of the most exciting sports, you know, sporting environments ever. And and so you're gonna have twenty four teams um out of twelve from each conference. However they figure it out, that's exciting to be after two and a half months of no hockey. So so I'm I'm

excited to hear about it. I do think, you know, I'd be tough for those players to jump right into a playoff environment with with after having two and a half months off. Yeah, you gotta have some kind of training camp to get these guys back in shape. So, thinking about these games being played without fans, and hockey and basketball being home home field advantage, you know, to the to the end degree, those are the sports that are probably means the most like, how is that? How

would that even play out with no fans there? Like it just would it would be weird. I know, Kevin Harvick who won the NASCAR race, he said it was it was. It was really just kind of surreal, like all of a sudden, you're like you win the race and you're trying to celebrate and you're looking around, but you know, fans aren't yelling for you, your teammates can't come near you, like you know, it's it's it's we

talked about with the UFC and not having that. And then you start to think about, like Joe, the betting lines, like are you going to see it's Vegas going to have to adjust betting lines, especially in certain sports like the NBA won that home court advantage is more prevalent, you know, I think you're gonna see the betting lines, you know, adjust it'll be very similar to the beginning

of the of all the seasons. Then three or four they kind of they start to figure it out, but you don't know, you know, who's working out, who's sitting at home meeting pizza. I mean, dude, come in big time out of shape. So it's definitely gonna be interesting to see how that all plays out. NBA Travis, what's the latest on that. Yeah, so the NBA is talking, um, they could get going pretty soon. You know, obviously they need some time to get get things going with talk

about getting uh everyone to about seventy games. That's like five or seven games for some teams. UM. Decision for from from Commissioner Silver will come in the next few weeks. And one of the reports was saying the teams are implored to to get back out there and being kind of a playoff, um playoff race to finish the season, and he was he's employed these teams um to play because Steve Kerr, who is the coach of the Warriors, who had a ton of injuries to start the year

and are at the very bottom of the West. They don't even want to finish the games, Like what's the incentive for teams to come back to play five or seven games? So so that's like the NHL is kind of following that guideline, like, okay, those teams are out of it, why even bring them back? Put them at risk? The less people that are are you know, playing and at risk, and you know, less people are gonna get it's like to stay at home for for them is

coming into play as well. No, it's but then you think about competitive impact in terms of you know, draft position and okay, our draft position was based on sixty games. Their draft position was based on fifty five games. You know, it's so so many variables. It's it's really crazy to think, you know, and they their heads must be spinning. Yeah, these meetings must be crazy, like you have to think

about everything and stuff that you've never even thought. Of course, it's it's it's crazy and you're and this is, like I said, we're not going to see anything like this. Hopefully we don't. We haven't seen anything in our lifetime and hopefully we won't ever again. Um let's uh, let's go to break. When we come back, we're gonna talk the most controversial calls in NFL history. I need a list. We'll go down the list next on good calls. All right,

we're back on good calls. Yo. Your background was LLOLLO CPBL. Yeah did that for you? Is that? Is that your background? There? Well, the Taiwanese baseball the rat the ratsu Can Monkeys are still in first. That's travisis team. Um there, you know, still think they got like a six or seven game lead right now. Um So there's sixteen and six there dominating. Yeah there that they're they've been. There's the don prominent team. Like we said, they're the Patriots of the Chinese Professional

Baseball League. Um. So we were talking about Monday morning quarterback. Um, I guess this was what two weeks ago? When did they have a couple of weeks ago they tweeted out like it's you know, they sent out a video. Is this the worst blown call of all time? Um? And and that just got us thinking like, hey, Dean, you're the rules guy. Let's let's put together the real list. So and so, as I was thinking about this, UM, the list I came up with is not necessarily a

blown call list. It's it's a controversial or or impactful call list and like, look, blown calls. There are calls that I've seen in my career and officiating where it's like you you would think there was a third grader out there or or who making that call, but they weren't like impactful. You know, it was it was a week six game with ten minutes to go in the second quarter and you look at it and you go, what,

what the heck were they looking at? Um? So, so there's blown calls like that, and then there's calls that everybody's is going to run that. There's controversial calls, whether you whether it's debatable um whether it was a missed call. But I think you know, was the fail Mary. Yes, So when you think about the fail Mary, the fail Mary was two thousand twelve. That was during that was during the lockout when the officials were locked out the

first couple of weeks of this season. And uh and it was literally it was the last play of the lockout, of the lockout because that was Monday night. It was um it was Seattle and Green Bay. It was green Bay at Seattle. So you're on the West coast, So

think about that. That play happens um after midnight Um, now what when we East coast time, right well after midnight East coast time, so you're into Tuesday morning, now we we were that time was was probably the most um, I don't even know, turbulent time in my career at the NFL. It was. You know, we had had a lockout in two thousand one. Um, we we only missed. You know, we had a couple of preseason games with replacement officials. Um. And and you know then nine eleven

happened and the officials came back two weeks later. So and those officials were the better college officials worked during that lockout in the NFL. This lockout, the better college officials did not work. These officials were your lower tier college officials. Some some lower level college officials. Why was that was the other guys are already locked up with college football. No. Here, here's what happened the first go around.

The college officials that worked during the lockout, we're basically looked at as um for lack of a better term, scabs. They were ostracized in the in the officiating community. The NFL officials felt betrayed that they were standing for what they believed in for a better deal and these officials,

we were by working, we're hindering that process. So those officials received a lot of backlash and many of them felt that if you talk to them, they felt that, um, they were they were not given opportunities to get to the NFL because they worked during the lockout. So when when we went into that lockout, and I wasn't the head of officiating, but I know what went into finding the replacement officials, and they the NFL purposely did not

go after or the top college officials. They didn't want to put them in that position, so they went for lower level officials. But this was this was the powers that we didn't understand. You can't just put anybody out there. And we knew we knew that, um, you know, myself, a couple of other people in within the department, we

knew this was not gonna work. We knew you could get by maybe a week, maybe even two weeks, but eventually, if you throw people out there that are not used to the speed, the intensity and not just that football's football holding is holding, Um, you could get by, but managing an NFL game, TV, all the external things right, all of that, all of that process can be overwhelming.

When you talk about somebody whose experiences maybe Division two, maybe Division three, where some games are televised, some aren't, maybe even high school where majority of games are not televised, that whole the outside stuff became so overwhelming. So we knew eventually, UM, the ship was going to hit the fan. And it hit the fan that game that Monday night. Um,

it was a stressful time we were. We remember going to games and I was in the replay booth where they had set to the on field officials, and I was basically helping them through the process of NFL rules, helping them enforce penalties. And I've never felt more, um exhausted at the end of the game, and through no fault of these officials. These officials were put in a

position to foul. You can't take. That's like taking I know Joe thinks that if he had five inches he could be an NFL title, But that's like taking Joe or myself or you and throwing us out there in the middle of an NFL game and saying, Okay, you're the life tackle block you know, block that defensive ent like we would fail. And that's what they were putting. They were put in that position, and and obviously the fail Mary. Look, there were a couple of prob was

with that play. It was offensive, fast affairance. Golden Date clearly pushed Sam Shields um in the back to even have a chance to make that catch. Then they went up and it's some people say, what, Look, it was a simultaneous catch, it's an interception. Um, it should have been ruled an interception on the field. UM. It would have been tough to overturn and replay just because it

was tough to see the football. I think had the replay official had the wherewithal the think big picture, big picture change it making an interception, um, you know, And and Green Bay wins the game and we don't have all this controversy. But literally, we were talking before that week, before that game that once a deal got done, it was going to take two weeks minimum to get the regular officials back. That play happened Monday night into Tuesday morning.

They were back Thursday night. That's how impactful that play was. So it's definitely one of the top, you know, missed calls, certainly controversial calls in his three UM so here's my list. And then I did this in chronological order and so the immaculate reception. All right, So this was Raiders Steelers, This was the NFC divisional game in ninety two. Was the last play of the game. And everybody's seen the

video of the pictures. Um you know, Bradshaw scrambles, throws the ball, it deflects off either Jack Tatum or Frenchie Fuqua. Franco Harris catches it out of the air and runs it in for a game when he touchdown as time expires. So,

but a lot of people don't remember that. There was a controversy about that play because at that time the rules said you couldn't if a passed touched an offensive player, it couldn't then touch a second offensive player if if it tipped, if a receiver tipped to pass, another receiver couldn't catch it. So if that ball is touched by Frenchie Fuqua, then Harris catching it is a foul. And to this day we still don't know who touched it first. It looked was like it hit off Tatum, the Raiders

the Raiders player. But there was a long, long, long conversation after that play, fifteen minutes or so, the crew talking about Art mcnallely who was the head of officials at the time. He was in the press box and ultimately, UM. There was no replay at that time, but there was a long discussion and ultimately they went with touchdown. But that that was definitely a significant, a significant controversial play.

And then the rule changed in eight So it wasn't just because of that play, but in ninety eight the double touch rule went away, and now it's the rule that we all know, so that it can be touched by a receiver and UH, and the second player could could catch it. UM. The next one was the Holy Roller the Chargers Raiders. This was early in the season and it was the last player the game, Ken Stable or either fumbled or threw it. UM. The ball was muffed forward, UM, Dave Christensen falls on it in the

end zone and the Raiders win. And this did lead to a rule change. UM. Where this was before the two minute fumble rules, when now we say that inside two minutes, if if a player fumbles, then only he can advance it. So had that rule been in place, it would have it wouldn't have counted. And so that rule did change in nineteen seventy nine. So that was whenever whenever play leads to a rule change. It's certainly controversal loves that fourth quarter fumble rules. Yeah, the fourth

down fumble two minute. So yeah, the fourth down fumble rule was in place, but it only applied in nine, only applied inside the defensive team's tenure um, and so that that did expand the rule. I don't know, go back if you get a chance to go back and look at this video, because I think from a judgment perspective, this might have been the worst blown call in a big situation. This was the seventy nine a f C title game and Oiler's fans who will remember it. Steelers

fans will remember it. Finally, but Mike Renfrow, Oilers are down seventeen ten third quarter, their drive in Renfro catches the past clearly in bounds in the end zone at the end line, and it's ruled incomplete no replay. They don't score, they end up losing. This is this, from a judgment perspective, is probably one of the worst blown calls um in a big situation. So YouTube Mike Renfro no catch and uh, and you'll see what I mean.

Was not a good year for for officiating and officiating controversies. Um, I was glad to League office at the time. We had Thanksgiving Day, Right, we all remember Steelers Lions, Phil Luckett, Jerome Bettis, did he call tails? Did he call heads? This was a this was crazy when it happened. Um, I remember watching it and I was like, and what just happened? Bettis says he called tails. Luckett said he luck It And I know Phil Luckett, Phil luck It

is one of the nicest people on the planet. Phil Luckett. Um has adopted two young girls from Russia, from impoverished towns in Russia. And Phil Lucky and his wife Phil like it isssault of the earth human being was ripped to shreds because of because of situations that he was involved in and Phil Lucky and look, I believe I'm there talked to Jerome Bettis about it. But I believe Phil Lucky when he tells me he heard he heard betttert change his here, Bettter change his his his decision.

He said head tails. And there has been enhanced audio that would that would kind of lend itself to that to that idea. But the bottom line is people heard tales luck It said heads. It went tails, and uh, and the lines end up getting the ball and winning the game. So so that was definitely controversial. UM. Later that year, Phil luck At refereeing, not his call, but Seahawks, Jets,

Benny Test have already touchdown. That wasn't fourth down, Jets, so down thirty Um tested, Bernie sneak up the middle. Officials rule touchdown, He's clearly short. No replay, Jets win the game. Seahawks end up going eight and they missed the playoffs, and Dennis Erickson and the entire staff is fired.

That play was probably the last straw when it came to replay, and replay was re implemented back in the following year, and I think not just that play only because of that play, but it was definitely the last, the last straw, and that was and looked the kind of a footnote. The headlines been on that play was that Ernie France, Ernie France, um is a good friend of mine. Ernie France, no one, no one feels worse when an official makes an incorrect call like that that

costs the team a game. Ernie France went into deep depression after that play. He he he stopped talking to people. He went into isolation. He was and this is a guy that was one of the better officials worked Super Bowls, went out to have a great career worked replay UM work super Bowls as a replay official. He went into depression after that play, and he took it upon himself.

And that's the sometimes we forget about the the human element of his and no one feels worse UM And it was the officiating community and the family that had to bring him out of it. Um to get him back because he felt he just he felt awful and it was and it was a big, big deal. This wasn't me feeling bad and then you know, shaking it off. It was he went into a deep, deep depression and it took a while for him to get out of that. So you know, it's just one of those deals where

it's just it's just so tough and uh. And thankfully replay came back in nine and and you know, we didn't have situations like that later that year. Right Packers is wild card game people don't remember. Everybody remembers the Steve Young passed the Terrell Owens to win the game right between three defenders, one of the great iconic plays in the history of the NFL. Well, four plays earlier, Jerry Rice fumbled, the Packers were covered, and the officials

ruled Rice down. No replay, game continues, Niners win. If there was replay, that would have been reversed to a fumble and uh, and the Packers would have won. So so history changed there. Obviously, replay came back the next year, um the wild card game, Right Titans Bills. The Music City Miracles still debated to this day. Frank Whitchick throwing the past back to Kevin Dyson. Look for it and

and it does. I agree it looks forward, but if you go by the rule and it's the point of where the ball is released to where it's first touched, you cannot say that it is clearly forward. And it was ruled backward. And think about the rule back then and the illegal forward pass. If the officials would have ruled the play illegally forward, then the play would have been dead as soon as Dyson caught the ball, and so replay would not have been able to do anything

about that. So kudos to that crew for letting it go. Replay looked at it, and that was my replay official. My first year I was a video operator. I worked for the replay official, Bob Wilson. We worked all the year together and um, you know, I was basically the assistant to the replay official. We didn't work together in the playoffs. That was his game. I was destined because I was really good. I was destined for bigger things. I worked the Super Bowl that year, thank you very much.

But anyway, so I'm sitting at home. I'm sitting at home watching that play, praying for my partner to get it right. And I was like, oh my god, I've been with him all year and now they have this play and I can't be there with him and up. But that was definitely People still debate that call. Um you know this, Uh you know in two thousand twenty UM NFC championsh game, the bird of manual play right changed the rule. Uh that that was forty seven seconds left.

Bucks are down eleven six, and in the Champions game against the Rams um they completed past the bird of manual would have been a first day one would have put them in Rams territory. They're driving, replay stops, the game reverses, it's incomplete by rule. It was the correct ruling because at that time, if any part of the ball touched the ground, it was the incomplete passed. It was a very technical application of the rule, but it

was the correct application. The rule changed after that to say that if the player ball touched the ground and the player had control of it, it was still a catch. And so you know, and I've done you know, at the Super Bowl, I've done presentations with Bird and Manuel. He's just a great guy. And obviously that is, you know, a very significant when you talk about that rule change, it's one of the biggest rule changes in the history

of the NFL. Um the tough rule. Right, what can we say about the tock everybody remembers the tuck rule. Does the do you think the New England Dynasty happens without the tuck rule? Who knows? Who knows? But that game was over, right, Woodson Hits Brady comes off the edge, Hits Brady rule, the fumble, Raiders recover in the snow fairy tale ending for the Raiders, They're gonna move on. Replay comes in walk Omen and they reverse it to a pass, which it was by rule, and uh what happens?

Patriots go on tie the game. Minitary makes two of the iconic fields, and in the NFL history ties the game and then wins it in overtime in the snow and uh and the and the dynasty is born. That year they beat the Rams in the Super Bowl. So um Amy Trask still to this day, who was the president of the Raiders at the time, When still it's like it happened yesterday. It's like it happened yesterday, two thousand thirteen. I came in my first year, my first

order of business. But one of the rule changes we put in was changing the tough rule uh to uh to make that a fumble. So Radar fans, you you know, if I were in charge of officiating, that would have never happened. So there you go. This next one two, this one to me might be at least in my memory recent memory, the worst phone call um in terms of the in terms of the the magnitude of the play. And this was not so much judgment. It was the

misapplication of a rule. And you can live with judgment, You can live with a bang bang play and an official missing it. But when you miss apply a rule, that in the officiating world, that is a big, big issue. And this was at the end of the game. This was Giants forty Niners, and I don't know if you remember this game. This was one of the most wild games in NFL history. The Giants led thirty fourteen with

about three minutes to go on the third quarter. The Niners came all the way back and took the lead with about a minute ago with the two long one's touchdown went up thirty eight. There was a brawl after after the two point try, with terrello Ones tackling a Giants defender out of bounds. And there's a fight in the middle of a playoff game, a run point game in the fourth quarter. Go back and watch the highlights

of this game. It's insane. Giants get the ball back, good return, They get in position for a field goal attempt. They have a new holder, Trey Junkin, who they brought out a retirement because they're their holder and their backup holder. I'm not holder, I'm sorry snapper. They're long snapper, Trey Junkin. Their long snapper was injured, their backup was injured. They bring Trey Junkin out of retirement, and you'd already and you already had a bad snap earlier in the game.

Bad snap the holder rolls out throws a pass down field. Rich Cybert, who was downfield for the Giants, gets tackled. No flag for passing if arrants they flagged the Giants for an eligible downfield miss that the Rich Cybert was Actually he's an offensive lineman, so he's wearing an offensive lineman number. But he was on the end of the line. He was in a tight end position, so he's eligible. Report eligible, doesn't You don't have to have your your

report is eligible before the game. You report is eligible in a field goal or so you do report is eligible. He was in an eligible position and they just they didn't realize he was eligible. Should have been offsetting penalties. Giants should have had another opportunity to keep the field goal. Gay Men's Niners win that. And I was at the league office during that time. That was not good, especially

being in New York League office, being New York. Not happy um And then the last two does Bryant right? Obviously me and Dez and this player will be forever lengthd um certainly one of the most controversial calls in recent years because of the magnitude of play, and also because Cowboy fans just can't get over it and uh, and so this was the rule. He went to the ground, he lost the ball. It was the correct application of the rule, not because I was involved, because that was

the rule at the time. The rule has since changed. But the magnitude to play four minutes ago, fourth quarter? What have given the ball to the Cowboys first and goal at the one. If they score, they go ahead. And but if your Cowboys fans talk about it, that was the Super Bowl and we cost them the Super Bowl with that call. But anyway, and then right in two thousand eighteen the NFC Championship games, I can't think of a call that had a bigger impact that was

more controversial in recent years. Um that you know. I don't think from a mechanic standpoint, it was look, it was past difference. It was a missed call. I don't think when you watch it at full speed, it was like, oh my god, this is the worst call in history. But it's definitely when you talk about the Saints get that call. The Saints are going to the super Bowl, right, they're down the ball on the next play the clock out.

When you think of it in that context, it's probably the biggest decision at least recent years not making that call, and uh and you know, and obviously it led to a rule change. Rule change didn't work. Um when your experiment for past and ferranture review and uh, yeah, So so that's my list. I'm sure there were all there. So hey, just you know, tweeted, tweeted us, let us know if there are other calls that you think should have made this list. But but that's where I am

on the list. I watched the rentro while we were doing this. Definitely a catch. Oh well, I mean he's clearly in best Yeah, he's second foot dragged easily. I mean, and and that's that is that's a tough one man. Imagine And that's why imagine a world without replay. Imagine that happens in the championship game now, Yeah, and and they call it incomplete and there's no ability to fix it. Yeah, the world would end and Twitter would go crazy. It

would It would be insane. That's why people say replay. You need replays. And I just think we need to manage it better and make sure we're not make sure we're not you know, going too far. Um, there was there was another very controversial call that um, I was not there but Joe was involved, and we we played pickup. We used to play pickup basket and and Joe was Joe, you were the recipient or you were the guy that fouled. No, I was the one who got fouled you, Okay, the

way he says it, Joe was. Joe was apparently fouled in a pickup game, called his own foul. There was video of it, because Joe was video he had was okay, pop Paulo was our friend. Paulo was, and there's video of it. I watched the video. I didn't foul. I definitely did not see it. He got my elbow. And I never called fouls. I never, no, no, no, I never called fouls. But I called that foul because I was getting fouled all game. M m oh. So that was a makeup and it was it was. It was

generally a foul I wouldn't call. But I was just like, look, dude, you foul me all game. I gotta take this one game point. Joe. This was the first time I ever met you. Was like, you gotta see this video. Like there's another video video in the cube. There's another video that surface this week of I think we'll talk about it soon. But another there's another controversial play in the frisbee throwing game. All right, let's let's take a break. When we come back, we're gonna finally put the last

dance to bed. Thank god. Next on Good Calls, all right, we're back and the much anticipated, much discussed Much to Do About Nothing documentary students about the Bulls. What in the arrogance to say that we're gonna chronicle this season and then when when I think that maybe my popularity is waning a little bit, then will release it so I can get back my face, I can get back

in the news. Well, apparently this was supposed to come out like during the playoffs, when when Lebron was probably leading the Lakers to the finals and possibly winning with the third different each be because I need to be But so I have not, and I'm on it. I'm totally serious. I've not watched a minute of it. But it's impossible to stay away from it if you're on social media, if you you know, if you if you go on sports websites like I do just to catch

up on stuff, it's impossible. So I've read, I've read stuff, I've talked to people so after not watching the last dance, here's my recap. Okay, So the bottom line is, look, Michael Jordan's again, I'll preface this. They're great, the greatest player in the history of the game, the greatest winner, all that stuff. But he's an asshole. Right. The more I read about this thing, he's an asshole, and people give him a pass because well, he had to be

an asshole because he pushed. He pushed his teammates to win. If Michael Jordan doesn't win six championships, he's just an asshole. But now he's the greatest player. Other guys have won Bill Russell one how many championships ten and eleven years? He wasn't an Let's not Let's not give him a pass for being, you know, anything less than an asshole. That's it. When I read about right now, the flu

game is apparently bad pizza. Now, okay, so he ordered he ordered a pizza, they didn't somehow he didn't make it to dinner. He got he he threw a piss a fist, he threw a hissy fit, ordered a pizza late night in Utah, in Salt Lake, and then basically spit on the pizza. So that no one else would eat it. Right, this is this is the story. Do you know what that that was admitted? He spit He spit on the pizza to ensure that nobody would touch

his pizza. Mia Michael Jordan's spit on the pizza said nobody else would touch the pizza because they didn't bring they didn't they didn't tell him about dinner. He was the only one that was going to eat that pizza. And apparently he did that. Before he did that, had on on a commercial shoot. He spit on like cinnamon buns because he didn't want anybody to eat the cinnamon buns. You know what else she used to do that? My brother Okay, have you guys have talked to my brother, right,

would spit. If there was one size of pizza it left, my brother would grab it and lick it, or he would spit on it so that we wouldn't we wouldn't eat the pizza. Okay. A couple of things my brother used to do when we used to get into fights. He would take something of mine. He would take a radio, He would take my disc man, yes I had a discman. Okay. He would take and he wouldn't throw it. He wouldn't throw it to me, throw it at me. He would throw it to me. I would have to catch it

because I don't want it to fall and break. He would punch me in the face and run with my hands worked my hands were occupied. Okay, that was the other thing he used to do. The other thing, the other thing he created was this alter ego called the Dragon. I told you guys this story. Dragon. The Dragon was undefeated. Whenever we were we were a year and a half apart. We used to fight all the time. I was older. I used to get the better of him, and so

we'd be fighting, wrestling. We used to put we used to have like bare knuckle boxing, but put socks over our you know, try to put socks over our hands so it wouldn't cut. We would get in trouble because we'd have cuts. So I'd be winning. He would freak out, lose his mind, start shaking and slalling his arms uncontrollably, and I would have to like stop and then and then when I would get him back under control, he would go what happened? What I blocked out for a second,

And I was like, what he goes? Oh, it was the Dragon. You can't defeat the dragon. So every every time he would do that right, he would win for a second, and then I would get him back and like a you know, head a headlock, and he the dragon would go away and be like, oh, he's gone again. So the dragon was on defeated. That's my brother. So basically my brother is Michael Jordan's without six NBA titles. That's it. That's my take, right, that's that's that's my

take on That's it. And the other thing about the last dance, which I love that I read somebody read like winners and losers. Somebody wrote an article about winners and losers about this this documentary, and one of the winners was Isaiah Thomas. Because Jordan's still hates Isaiah, called him an asshole during the documentary, still hates Isaiah to this day. Why does he hate Isaiah to this day? Not because Isaiah was a prick, because Isaiah beat him,

because they couldn't. Isaiah beat him three out of four playoff playoff matchups, and and and this is not I'm curious. I'm gonna present this to you. I want you guys to agree or disagree however you feel. Michael Jordan's Bulls. If Michael Jordan's Bulls were playing in the eighties versus the nineties, they don't win six titles and he's not considered the player he is today. True or falls Oh, they were considered a finesse team more than than than

a power team. Michael Jordan's Bulls beating the Lakers in the eighties, the Pistons in the eighties, and the Celtics in the eighties. Yes or no, No, they're not. He caught He caught magic and bird at the end of his career, right, he didn't the Pistons beat him up. You know, he finally finally beat the Pistons at the end, But the Pistons were at the end of their run. He's not winning six championships against he was playing against. He was playing against individual stars on not great teams.

Patrick Ewing, they beat the Knicks four times. I'm a Nick fan, and look, if Michael Jordan's on the Knicks, he'd beat my asshole. But guess what he wasn't Patrick Ewing that the next best player on Ewing's Knicks was probably John Starks. John Starks was bagging groceries in Oklahoma. John Starks was the second best player on those Knicks teams. When you look at the Lazers teams, they had Glide Jackson,

they had Jerome Kersey. They didn't have what the Lakers and Celtics had, right, Barkley with the Sons naming the other player on Barkley's Sons, right, Dan Marley, right, But they didn't stocked in him alone. You didn't have these these great teams and Jordan's Yes, Jordan didn't have Jordan didn't have you know, the Celtics and Lakers of the eighties.

But he had a top twenty player, Scottie Pippen. He had guys that, you know, Horace Grant, Steve Kirt, he had guys that were great role players, Tony kuk coach, all of those things. So that's it. I'm done. We get, we get you don't like Michael Jordans. We're all aware. Anyway, what are you guys watching anything good? You know, I was watching that Michael Jordan documentary, just finished it today. You know he kind of came off as a dick. You said the winner, but the loser in that was

Scottie Pippen. You didn't mention that. He just looked like a whiny little bit, so I mean obviously the team across Um, you know, I think Steve Kerr. Anyways, I watched I watched the other night, I watched The Wrong Missy, the David Spade Netflix movie. Is that good? Pretty entertaining? Yeah, the female lead was a little over the top at times lovable at the same time. Um, I'd watch it. I'd watch it again. You guys should check it out.

I'd recommend it. What makes her what makes her lovable? Travis, She's just genuine. She just comes off and she just is is who she is, and people love her for it. Okay, that's good. Another hot take, Another hot take. Last Last Kingdom on Netflix is better than Game of Thrones. Just throwing it out there. Never watched Game of Thrones. I mean I've read the books. I'm a big Game of Thrones fan. Last couple of seasons we're not as great.

Last Kingdom is better than Game of Thrones. Watched. Last isn't better than Breaking Bad because Breaking Bad it's just a different You can't really get to apples and oranges, So you like apples, then it's you know, or you like oranges. It's not it's not apples ap um. And also I've watched this other one in Netflix Trial by Media really good. So trial media talks about these um, these big time UM trials. Typically most of it's like

in the eighties. UM, I don't know if you remember the Jenny Jones murder case when when the guy, the guy went on Jenny Jones two, uh, confess his crush on his friend, um, and he did it on his show and it was and his friend was a guy, and so the guy went on the show, his friend confessed that he had a crush on him. The guy felt embarrassed because, you know, a gay man was confessing this crush. Obviously at that time, UM, you know a little bit. You know, people were clearly not as progressive

as they are today. Was Harris end up shooting the guy? And um? That So one episode was about that, Another episode about um the Bernie Bernard Gets if you remember the Bernard Guets story about shooting the four um young black teenagers on the New York City subway. Um. And I'm gonna get into the next one, which I think, uh is the I forget his name. I think his name is Ama Amadullo. He was an unarmed man that was shot forty one times broy New York City police

officers in the Bronx. And and it's so all about these cases and how the media impact the actual case. So definitely check it out. Really well done. Okay, what's that one called again? Tried by media? Um? And then Joe you you mentioned this? What about So we've got a three day weekend coming up? Now, you know, I know the weekend looks a little bit different because of of quarantine and all that, but but what are what are three day weekend rules? What are you know? Are

there rules to a three day weekend? Can you start a three day weekend on Thursday? Absolutely? I think you should always extend the three day to a four day my opinion. But then it's no longer. Then it's no longer three day weekend. You're yeah, can it be called a four day weekend? I think? And can you call a weekend to me? Like, Okay, So I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna propose a rule. You can't refer to a number of days as a weekend if it's the

majority of the week. Does that makes sense? Seven days in the week. You can't have a four day weekend because then it's the majority of the week. So a weekend can only be two or three days, so we have to call it a vacation. That then it becomes a vacation. When does the three When does a three day weekend become a vacation for when you had a fourth day? Like it? You know, I mean, I'm not a huge fan of it, but it actually makes sense, so I'll go with it. Okay, Um, so three day weekend?

Do you have to Can you have a three d weekend at home? Mmm? Not? These days we've been here for you take off? Can you take off from work and say you're gonna have a three day weekend and not go somewhere? I think they call it a stay cation? What I think they call that a staycation? So so that's a stay cation. No, I think you still call it a weekend because anytime you're not working and you're off,

that's considered. You know, you're off days. So we've been on like day weekend, but we're still working from home. So like your days are full of zoom calls, all kinds of conference calls and things, my days are full. Okay, So let's let's let's talk about then knowing what we know now right now that you can do all these things remotely, you can do all you know And because I'm remember, I remember a time when you know, the weekend was the weekend, there was an email, There wasn't

cell phones. You left work on Friday and if you got a phone call, it was an emergency. Right that went away with emails and you know, cell phones and all that. Now has it changed? Have we have we just up the annie with all these zoom calls and everything else where? Will there ever be a day where we're not doing something? You know what, what will an employer feel bad about scheduling a zoom call, you know after hours or on a Saturday, because now you have

to come into the office. But we're gonna have a half hour session, you know? Is that what we're looking at? I thought we were gonna end the show on a high note. Now I'm just gonna be Now I'm down. Now I'm really down. Dam you really broke it down there. I just think this is gonna be You know, I was talking to a couple of people, a couple of Fox executives, and this, you know, this changes. It also

changes how we look at TV. There was a point one of the things that that the production right, it was okay, if you're gonna bring somebody in and do uh, you know something on air, right, it was the lighting had to be amazing, makeup all of those things the production value. Now, what are we seeing. We're seeing zoom calls. We're seeing people in their living rooms, in their dens,

in their bedrooms. There's no lighting, there's no and so what I think we're learning about the consumer is that they don't care what it necessarily looks like as long as the content is there, right, it's entertaining. They're learning something which is really interesting, which I think is going to change. Um, you know, give us access to more

you know, to more guests. You know, you think about the shows on Fox FS one, whether it's Colin or Speak for Yourself or Undisputed, you know, when they have guests, you know, just having a zoom call with no bells and whistles. I think before there might might have been a hesitancy. Now talking to some people at facts, they're just gonna do it. And I think it's gonna give

us more access to more people. Yeah, a lot of my day to day has to deal with putting those Hall of famers we have almost every day on on screen, and those shots don't always look great, kind of like if we're looking at my video right now, you you don't always have the best lighting, you don't always have the best headroom, and you're not always centered in the shot, and it doesn't And in the producers for that show, we're like, yeah, let's do it that it looks good

as long as we can hear them, fine, let's do it. The audio has become more important at this point, like if the audio, Joe, do you hear that? Well, it's not great. You know, we're doing the best we can. Know. What I'm saying is audio has become more important. You're becoming more valuable. I know what. Our audio sounds terrible most of the time. Your stock just rose big time. Okay, yeah, thank you, you're welcome. Let's bro, let's go to Brandon Blandino.

Guy is still using the club? Yes, did you actually see what? I saw? A club walking down the street in Santa Monica on Wilshire Bowl. I look and I was like, what is it? What is that? That's the club? Do you remember when the club was like the thing that like late eighties, early nineties, everybody had a club. It had First of all, the club had had to had two uses. It was a lock your steering wheel in case somebody broke into your car, and also you

could beat the ship out of that club. I'm so glad you went there, because I didn't want to go there. I was like, it was I don't think I don't think the makers of the club realized that it was a two use item. But it definitely became that bad thing. When did why? When and why did the club stop being a thing? Well, because did you see how easy it is to disable him? What? It became like everyone knew how to get rid of them. You just cut It was like you take a song and you just

cut the steering. You know, I probably shouldn't be saying this stuff. You know, well I get it, but I didn't realize that that was the reason. I just thought people just said it's not you know, the the the alarm systems are more sophisticated. You have GPS trackers, you have all these different things. Well it's probably all that too, but everybody knew if you just take like a hacks on and cut the steering wheel and it just pops right off. Yeah, I mean yeah, but you just so.

I think the guy walking down the street with the hacks On in his pocket might be it might be somebody to keep an eye on. But I just remember everybody had everyone had a club. That the club must have been. I would be interesting to see at the height of their the height of their popularity, what what you know, what business kind of business they were doing, because that was a big, big thing. I mean it was like the first time you start, you were like,

oh my, that's that's genius. Can still my car? Nobody now nobody's no, nobody uses it except this one guy that lives in And what color was it was a traditional rat or you have one of the colors? No it was it wasn't red. It might have been just black. Huh. And my maybe it was a knockoff. I remember I had like a turquoise one. I don't know. Maybe it was what's the knockoff called the flub? Who knows, but get it. I'm sure there were plenty of knockoffs. I

don't know. On that note, Travis, this has been good calls or Team Black, you know. Please follow me on Twitter at gene Glandino and Instagram at team dop Blandio. Follow the show on Instagram and Twitter, apples podcast, and be sure to radar podcast on the heart Radio app and on apple Wood Calls and zeene Blandino is a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcast from My heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.