Hi, mister Jonathan Steinman, and I grew up in Marine County, where Fred lives. Currently, I spend most of my time between Bridgeton and Cape Elizabeth, Maine, and I'm a member of Lake Cheeser Country Club in Level, Maine. A Donald Rossporus celebrated gets one hundred and second year. This is Golf Smarter episode number one thousand and four.
A lot of people haven't experienced, Hey, let's try a little lighter, let's try a little heavier, let's try a little longer, let's try a little shorter, and they're surprised sometimes to go it's interesting. I actually like a lighter swingweight and a shorter iron feels more consistent and I don't lose any speed. So more than anything, sitting so important because you can just try different things and tinker and get to understand all the things that can be
changed in the equipment and what they're doing. Whether it's so look the wildcast out like we said, it makes golf easier.
Unlocking the secrets of PXG's new Wildcats set for beginners with Kayleb Crowloff is Golf Smarter sharing stories, tips and insights from great golf minds. To help you lower your score and raise your golf IQ.
Here's your host, Fred Green.
Welcome to the Golf Smarter podcast. Caleb, Hello, Fred, You doing well today?
I'm doing well. How are you?
I'm fine? Thank you.
Wanting to talk about this? So I have recently in the audience is well aware of this. I've recently become a PXG fan playing the full set, and well not the full set. I'm still waiting on wedges and I'm curious about the wedges. I haven't gotten there yet, but.
We can do that.
But now, PXG what we're going to talk about today is introducing a new set for a whole different breed of golfer, which I find absolutely fascinating and want to talk about that. It's the wild Cat Set. Can you explain what the Wildcat PXG or the PXG Wildcat Set is?
Absolutely so. The Wildcat Set is a set of PXG clubs designed more for entry level beginner players or players with more geared towards slower swing speeds. So the whole idea behind the Wildcat Set is to make golf fun, make it easy. Golfs plenty hard as it is, but we want, we want players, especially those who struggle more because it's you know, whether they're just don't hit it quite as far or quite as high, or new to
the game in the proper setup. Traditionally, those players don't don't get fit, don't get the right set up for them. So we want to do everything we can to make golf enjoyable and make it fun.
Do you need to be fit for this set?
No, you don't need to be fit. We recommend alwayskind of going through it at least a phone call. We're able to you know, get through to our fitters on our team that work well over the phone, are able to walk through even if it's someone who doesn't know a lot about golf, is new to the game, and say you're this tall, you know, you're around this age range, and make a pretty good recommendation. So you don't need to go in and get fit. You can, and I
always highly recommend it. We design golf clubs to be fit around here. It's it's you know, to the player's benefit always. But if you if you aren't able to make it in or for some reason you know, aren't comfortable doing that, we're able to help over the phone quite a bit. Or you can go through online and order as well.
In my many conversations with listeners throughout the years, a lot of people are.
Like, yeah, I'm kind of new to the game.
And I just don't feel like I'm ready to get fit because my swing isn't there yet. And I have to remind them that. But you're no matter how good you get, your swing may never be what you wanted to be, right, So they're resistant to get fit. And we've advocated for years to get fit for clubs because it's just going to make you better immediately.
Absolutely. Yeah, that's one of those things. You know, I hear it all the time. I get a lot of people talking to me at social gatherings who you know, who go, oh, like, you have an interesting job work in the golf industry, and then they'll say, yeah, I don't need to get fit, I'm not that good, or I don't play enough. And you know, every tour player gets fit. And the thing is the tour players they could pick up a box set and go shoot sixty five on any given day. They can adjust to it.
You know, I have played my whole life and nowhere near that level. But even you know, as a single digit it's harder for me to adjust to equipment when it's not fit right for me. And it's if it's you know, too long or the wrongly angle or the wrong fluck shafts, wrong weight, it's just making it harder. Like there's no reason not to get fit.
Right right.
Absolutely, and usually fittings, Well, let me ask you this way, is there a cost to be fit for this set? Uh?
Yes, So the way our fitting system works are generally are there's a cost to get fit, but it'll get applied towards purchases, so oh great. So yeah, I mean if you're if you're gonna buy a set, I think it's absolutely the way to do it.
Absolutely. There.
The set itself is unique in the sense that, again you're looking at new golfers, golfers that are struggling buying youth clubs. What about the senior golfer that is just and you hear it all the time. I'm just not hitting it as far as I used to.
I just can't.
You know, I can't carry the bag anymore. It's getting too heavy. You know, there's a lot of senior golfers who still love to play, have been playing, have had you know, at various levels of their game, but now the swing speed, the body is just not holding up. Is this the kind of set that would work for senior golfers as well?
Certainly for some I used. My dad is a good example. He's played golf my whole life. He you know, got more into it when my brothers and I started playing. But you know, he he used to hit it really far, and he's gotten up there in age and has slowed
down and had to go to lighter shafts. You know, graph fight with lighter flexes and he needs more loft and you know, a lot of even game improvement irons these days are geared towards distance, and you know, for players who struggle to hit it higher, this is a great option. So it's not necessarily just I'm a new entrant to the game or I had don't play very much. But you know, if it's the right fit for you,
it's the right fit. And you know, it just mainly for players who struggle to hit it high, and a lot of the times that is slower swingers at the golf club.
Why do I think that I'm older and your dad do?
Do?
Has he played this set?
Has your dad yet? But we'll see. Is a birthday coming up?
So have you talked to him about it? Is he open time a little bit?
We talk. He likes to talk shop every once in a while, and he knows talking about golf clubs is my favorite subject. So certainly whenever he has a question, comes to me and we talk through specs and options, and you know, I think sometimes it's kind of fun too. Has more of a like my kind of connect to the outside world of more of a a lay person
when it comes to golf equipment. I think sometimes my understanding of what the general public knows about golf clubs can get skewed by being surrounded by people who are very passionate and have an in depth knowledge of golf equipment. So, you know, whether it's my parents, my in laws, my brothers, my friends, it's fun to hear from them and talk through like what they know, what they don't know? Should I get fit? Can I adjust things? All that sort of stuff. But it's fun to talk to him about
that kind of stuff. And I think he's definitely always excited to try the latest and greatest.
And is he playing any PXG clubs? Oh?
Yeah, he's playing PXG stuff.
He and your brothers.
Yeah, both my brothers are. I've been here for about coming up on ten years now, so.
Oh is that right.
Yeah, so I think at this point it'd be I'd be a little consulted, weren't Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, that happened to me once. I was doing work with Anheuser Busch for years back.
In the eighties and nineties.
But I got a call from Saint Louis one day with my contact and he goes, so, what are you up to? And I said, I'm just sitting here drinking a beer. He said what are you drinking? And I said a corona dead silence on the phone.
It was like, oops, that was the wrong answer.
Well, we're going to get more into your journey too about how you got there. But there is competition kind of for what this Wildcat set is. Styx has an entry level set of clubs that's very good looking, nice bag, you know, for people who are just getting started, and one something that looks a little bit nicer than just normal set of clubs. Even Costco has a phenomenal set
that is not expensive. But I don't see that happening with a lot of the major brands like PXG, is what made you guys decide that this is a portion of the market you wanted to attack.
Well, I think a lot of it comes from mister Parsons and is kind of experience in the game. He sees people struggle, and you know, it's funny when he comes in, whether it's some new blade or a new driver, he's we're we're working on something in engineering, and you know, he's trying to get prototypes out to his buddies the next day and telling tour players you have to try this, and we're like, slow down, we need to do some
testing first. So he's he wants to get help people and enjoy golf, and I think it's something that he cares quite a bit about. And then just our customer base. You know, we have the advantage of interfacing with our customers quite a bit because of our retail locations. You know, our fitters talk one on one with them and we get to hear that feedback of what they're looking for.
And a lot of the times our customers are saying, hey, this is great, but do you have anything for my you know, high school age kid or my you know, retired parent who is trying to pick up golf or my wife or my husband or whatever it is. So I think I think, you know, all of that feedback is so valuable, and that connection and relationship with our customer allows us to kind of hear and understand and you know, do a more entry level set, but do it in our way that that is custom fit and
that is filled with technology. And you know, I think the Irons and the Wildcats that are a great example of a lot of that technology exists in our mainline flagship products. You know, it's our hollow body filled technology. So it's a very very high performance, technology packed product for entry level players, which I think is really cool and really unique.
A minute ago you mentioned that it's filled with technology. How is it that you're able to deliver a set like this that has all that PSG technology behind and make it affordable one person who's not necessarily into it just yet, or you know, they're not sure of their commitment.
Well, I think part of it is. So it's a nine piece set, and that's something that for beginners. You know, the first thing my mom picked up golf in the last couple of years. The first thing she calls me all the time just to ask questions about when do I use this club here, when do I use this club here? And it's confusing, and if anything, the beginners
really don't need that many clubs. You know, fourteen clubs is great if you are very serious golfer looking to take advantage of and play better golf, but realistically your gaps are smaller. If you're a slower swinger, you don't necessarily use multiple wedges in the same way a more avid golfer would. So first of all, nine pieces really is a great way to get into it at a more reasonable price point. And then the other part is just kind of deciding what technologies, uh make sense for
this player and not adding things in that don't help. So, you know, we have certain technologies that at an advanced level are really important, and you know, add to the fine tuning adjustment like our weighting system and our flagship products is great. It adds a lot of value to that player. At an entry level, it's an expensive technology to add into clubs, and you know, isn't really going to be as important to that player as getting the right length, getting the right club head, and getting an
overall performing quality product. So I mean choosing the technology and then also the trickle down of that where the R and D costs. The development is already done in previous generations, and it's something we can then apply in to to all models.
I think it's a fascinating idea using a nine piece set because you know the goal for every golfer, and one of the things they are the first things you have to learn when you're starting to play golf is how far you hit each club. But if you're new to it and you're not really sure, you don't need you know accuracy in that sense.
We all know the person that pulls their seven iron from everywhere and they hit the only right.
Yes, we do. We play with them regularly.
Yeah, and then there's the people who are like, I'm allergic to my seven iron.
Oh god, what am I going to do?
So what.
Is the nine piece set? Let's break it down piece by piece.
So it's available as a full set or individual clubs as well.
Oh okay, let's talk about the nine piece set.
So it's a driver a fairway would which is a five W And then.
Let's let's stop a driver first, cause we're going to go over each club. What's unique about this driver for the nine piece set.
I would say this driver compared to any anything else available in our line, it is significantly more loft. So it is sixteen degrees aloft, whoa players hit it high. And it also has a large face. So the design is you know, we talk a lot about forgiveness in golf, and when you're early on in golf, you know, it doesn't matter how high the MOI is if you don't catch it on the face. So you know, we try to maximize the face size to the best of our ability. So it is a really large faced driver.
That's interesting because I know that people struggle more with the ball that may just trickle off and you know, like bowling ball just roll down the fairway. But if they get it in the air, it really doesn't matter how far they hit it. If they get it in the air and their new golf they're very excited. So after sixteen degrees of loft, we'll get the ball in the air. Absolutely interesting. Interesting, all right, And when you said it's got a very large face, it does meet the specifications.
It is according to the USGA rules, so it is it is.
Not the size of a fry pan, no, but it.
Is within the rules. Relative to other drivers. A lot of the times we you know, manipulate that shape, whether it's for aerodynamics for you know, adjusting the characteristics for launch and spin, doing things to make it, uh, you know, for aesthetics, to make it look. What a better player prefers this is it is a bigger hitting surface, which I think most players at this level appreciate.
I agree with you one.
All right, now let's move on pastifer and what's next.
No fairy wood. So again with the nine piece set, you're not going to have multiple fairy woods. Our experience has been you know, we have customers, even people who've played golf for a long time that are you say, a fifteen handicap, come in fit or ask them when do you hit your fariywood? Do you tend to hit it off the deck? Do you tend to hit it off the tee? And they say, I don't. It's scary club, So you just don't hit it. Just they just don't
hit it. They sip in the bag because you're supposed to have a fairy wood and usually three three with are hard to hit, so we went straight to a five wood again. Part of that is the more loft aspect of it. It's easier to hit in the air. A little shorter just overall a little more comfortable to hit. And it's again kind of that bigger profile, bigger design. Weight is far back and low. The whole goal is make it easy to make contact and to hit it high.
Yeah, when you say it's shorter, the overall length of the club on our on all the woods are actually a little bit shorter than our standard.
Uh, it's back talking about the shaft for talking about shaft length.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's and that's where when it comes to woods especially, you know, drivers have gotten longer over time, and it's so that people can hit them farther, and you know, shaft technologies come a long way. Those things allow us to do that. Uh. But also you know, when it comes to a beginner or or someone who maybe doesn't hit it that far, they're not going to pick up a whole lot of distance by having an extra inch on the long length of their driver half into the
length of their driver. They'll pick up a decent amount of consistency by going shorter. So we want to kind of push people in the proper direction or guide them to to what's best for them in terms of maybe not max distance when you hit it perfectly, but your average distance and enjoyment to the game.
Right.
So I've talked to many club fitters and club builders and they talk about, you know, we're going to put you in a shaft that's about an inch shorter than what is the standard for a driver, let's say, because you're going to have more control. You know, Yeah, a longer driver the standard size is going to get you
more distance but less control. So your dispersion with a shorter shaft is going to be less and that's what you want, absolutely, and that's what you're doing here, a little bit shorter on the shaft.
But again, what's the loft on the five wood?
The five wood is at oh testing me on my specs here?
Oh oh, through them a curveball you did?
The driver.
Is sixteen degrees?
Is sixteen and then the fairway would so compared to a standard five wood, we have at eighteen. This I believe is a little bit more. It is at a.
Two. Should we be playing the Jeopardy theme.
I'd be out of time already. Huh So it's at nineteen, uh, nineteen degrees. Sorry to do that to you, no, that's all right. Job and the kind of things that I try to keep track of and and sometimes it's, you know, too many numbers running through my head all at once. But so nineteen degrees aloft designed to again be higher. It's not a uh like crazy high loft for a fairy wood, but uh it is kind of for the
being the only fairway in the bag. We want to make sure, you know, if a beginner shows up with a three wood that's you know, fifteen degrees, it's going to be so hard to hit, it so hard to hit in the air, and they'll just never be comfortable with it. So it's certainly designed to go up in the air.
Are you familiar with the name Jesse Ortiz from the club fitter from it was originally or Lamar had started or Lamar. So he's a great club fitter, worked for many different companies. I had a fitting with him and I told him I wanted a three wood, and he goes.
All right, what we're gonna do.
So we're going to give you a four wood and you can tell people it's a three wood because so many people struggle to get a three wood off the deck YEP and a four wood's going to help. So a five wood's going to definitely make it.
A bit easier.
Absolutely, And some people, you know, tour players carry five woods and three woods because they're looking to hit specific distance gaps, and you know, they find fairy wood's easier to hit high in the air than some hybrids that are overofted. And you know, it's it's a common club to be used. And again, just like we said earlier with the nine piece set, players who are new to the game generally don't have a big enough discrepancy and distance from one to another fill that gap so or
to need that extra club to fill a gap. So I think five wood sets them up as something that they can use as a t club and be comfortable hitting off the deck as well.
Okay, out of that nine piece set, we've gone through driver in a fair way, would I'm guessing our next stop is a hybrid?
Yes?
So you guess.
So there's one hybrid in the set. It's a twenty eight degree six hybrid.
So it replaces a six iron, yes.
So, and this is something that going back to you know, the questions beginners ask and how complicated golf clubs can be when you've been playing them forever. It seems straightforward, but explaining to a beginner the idea that you're you know, hey, as the number on your irons go down, it's a longer club. It's going to go farther. Okay, we got that.
When you start adding in you know, faaraway woods and hybrids that have different sets of numbers, and the farawoods go higher than the irons and the hybrids are in between, it can be complicated. So that's one of those things we wanted to do to keep it simple.
So we've been through the driver and the faraway wood. My next guess is we're going to a hybrid in the set.
Yes, that's correct. So the next club in the set is going to be a six hybrid at twenty eight degrees aloft. So the idea of going directly to a six hybrid we really wanted to. It goes back to
the idea of set compositions kind of complicated. If you're new to the nomenclature and all of the verbiage of the Gulf world, you know that, Okay, as your irons go down in number, they go farther, they get longer, all right, And then hybrids fit between there, and then there's fairy woods, and you know, having a three wood, a three hybrid and a three iron, or I guess you could say a five wood of five hybrid and
a five iron. People get confused. So we wanted to go directly from your five wood and then use your six hybrid and it goes to a seven iron. So keep it as simple as possible, you know, straightforward. People understand kind of sticks with that idea of as the number goes down, that's going to be a longer club
that goes farther, so twenty eight degrees of loft. It's a sort of a six iron replacement, a little longer than a six iron to help promote get up in the air, high lofted club and then just an overall bigger head than an iron. So it's going to produce more forgiveness, more speed across the face, just sort of more friendly than a long iron.
Is yeah, absolutely, you know. It's what's sounding really interesting about this is my wife really doesn't play golf. She has a set that we bought years ago that a full set is an inexpensive set, and she just it's too frustrating for her. This is the kind of set that would make her go, oh, I can do this. I'll play nine holes with you.
That was absolutely our goal. So I hope that is the case.
Oh okay, great, great, No, she doesn't have a birthday coming, all right, So now I guess that hybrid cuts through the rough like butter too, right, Yeah, that's the point of That's why they called it a rescue club initially, but that was a patent in name.
But it's a hybrid, yeah, a little bit bigger of a club, easier to get kind of down on the ball. I think so much of golf equipment is when it comes to designing product is sort of shaping and know how on our end to help make sure that stuff, you know, turf interaction the ball, or how the club
goes through the rough. Those are sort of not the front and center technologies these days because you know, it's it's something that's been around and it's not maybe the sexiest thing to talk about, but it's so important to making sure clubs, souls and designs are created in a way that make it easy for a player to get through that it doesn't dig into the ground that it,
you know, gets through the rough. Okay, So I think that's one of the key features of you know, we make product for players on tour at you know, high level amateurs, for everyday golfers, for beginners. You know, we're we're putting that same level of detail into you know, all of the shaping. It's not just you know, hey, let's get this design quick out the door, you know, made by someone who's maybe never designed a set of clubs before, and just scale them down based on a picture.
I mean, it's it's really more than you know, the box sets that are out there. It's it's designed to perform in that way.
Yeah.
Yeah, if we've learned anything over the years and watching golf on television especially, that really dictates sales what we see on TV. And I do see a lot of players on the tour that are wearing PXG clothing and even carrying PXG bags. But you do are they also playing are they just as PXG just marketing you know, the logo for these guys to wear it on tour?
Are they playing these clubs?
They're they're playing our clubs. So you know, we have nine players on the PGA Tour right now that play, you know, wear our hat carra Bag and Carrie. I believe all of them are at least eight clubs, so generally irons and wedges, and then a mix of some potters, some drivers, some fairy woods. Uh, you know, some of them play all fourteen clubs, some of them don't. There's there's a mix in there. But but we've you know,
it's a resource for us. We get a lot of great feedback from them in terms of our ability to work with them design and improve, So I think that's really helpful. It is important to mention the players. You know, the equipment that they play is not it's not different than what's available for consumers necessarily, but it's not necessarily
what's best for your average player. You know, Jake Knapp is our tour staff and he can swing a driver one hundred and thirty miles an hour, and what he needs in his clubs is very, very different than what I need, than what you know, my wife needs and what our parents need. It's just, you know, it's not
the same thing. Most players on tour are using blades because they like the way they go through the rough, they like the look of it from top down, and they like the player because they can hit them because they can hit them. They hit you know, it's not time. Yeah, So I mean those are the kind of things where those guys are so good they can play all sorts of different things. You know, there's a lot of players playing a lot of different clubs and the PGA Tour.
Do you know that if you guys sign a player for the PGA Tour, if there's a verbiage in the contract that says you have to play at least X amount of PHG clubs.
Yeah, generally, generally there's It's not I Do'm not intimately familiar with you know, how our contracts are written. Sure, not my area, but generally yeah, I think you know, anyone wearing our hat and our carrying our bag is is asked to play at least a min own number as part of the contract. But most of our players are playing more than that. So it's it's something where you know, it's a it's you know, a partnership in a way where part of it is when we work
with them. You know, we have our guys that are on our staff or our reps for that go out there on tour and work with our players and our our fitters for the tour players effectively and they build great relationship with the players. You know, they do an amazing job. They know their games sometimes better than the tour players do. But uh, you know, they're they're there
to help them through. Hey we have this coming that I think would help you, or if we have a new you know, product that's coming to go that that one's not for you to stick with. What you're doing is working good. So I think a lot of it is the relationship as well, but they you know, there it's fun to have our Sometimes our tour players are excited when they see new products, and I'm excited to go watch them test, and you know, it certainly helps us to design at a higher level and just to learn.
You know, the way they evaluated and decide if equipment is good is different than you know, our robot testing or how we evaluate it. They're they're looking at shots I've never thought about. So it's it's kind of cool to to pick their brains and see how they think when they are evaluating if something's you know, or for them.
Absolutely absolutely so we mentioned hitting blades. I got to believe that this wildcat set the irons, which are assuming you're seven eight nine on your irons, those are probably cavity back clubs.
So yes and no. So it's an interesting thing. Where So because of our product, the way our products designed, it's a hollow body, so we're creating a hollow body and then we weld on a face. So what it is is it's a cast body without a face on it.
We weld on the face and it creates this large hollow club and then we fill it with material with We call it our x Core two, something we had in our flagship irons and previous generations, and it is basically allowing the face to flex, but also a lot lighter so it moves weight to the perimeter and supporting the face so that it doesn't break. So it's kind of our key technology, and I think what we're best
known for is that filled hollow body design. We have what I would call cavity back in the Wildcat irons, but it's actually filled with a an insert that's a lightweight insert there, so it kind of has a more flush, kind of sleek design, and I think it looks really really good, provides really great feel compared to you know, with cavity backs and bigger clubs. A lot of the times, our concern is we want to make sure it looks good.
We want to make sure it feels good because especially beginner sets, larger oversized clubs, they can you know, have a bad feel to them, you know, like that's what some players like about blades or smaller clubs is they
feel more solid when you hit them good. And you know, we we take so much pride in kind of PXG having its own specific feel and it being different than what's out there in the industry that you know, we want to make sure even on the Wildcat set, you know, it is considered like reaching our level a minimum of a you know, great feel and sound. Uh so it it isn't. It isn't to cavity back. It's a little bit more different to a construction.
Interesting, that's unique.
Hmmm.
And I'm playing the three eleven's three eleven Yeah right XB And is that the filled hollow body design as well, or so it's our same design as your main clubs.
Yeah, so are our flagship Uh you know Gen seven irons are a forged body. We have a face that's weeled on and then it's filled with a polymer as well, and so it's a very at the overall construction is the same. So that's that's where I'm saying. The Wildcats have a lot more technology in them than any other
beginner set out there that I know of. They're they're really designed to to promote that great sound and feel as well as a lot of forgiveness and just you know, be a really high performing product for that player.
Now this set, there's three clubs left in this nine piece set. We've been through driver, Fairaway, Wood Hybrid, the three iron, seven, eight, nine, and some wedge makers consider a nine like a wedge that you have two wedges and the putter left.
Yes, so we have a so a pitching wedge and a sand wedge, and those are the same constructions as the irons, So you know, I personally consider them part of the iron set. Okay, but where wedges have just just like the hybrid faraway would concept, wedges have gotten complicated, especially two players who are new to the game, you know, having a lob wedge of sand wedge and a gap wedge and a pitching wedge, it's confusing when when do
I hit what from where? You know, they probably don't have distance gapping issues around their wedge is.
And for beginners, the lob wedge is probably the hardest club to hit.
Yeah, I mean beginners are hitting high soft shots and they're not trying to open faces. They're you know, trying to pitch and chip it onto the green and you know, are are happy with that. So I think that's where I try to get it to stop exactly. So, you know, the the wedges have the same technology as the irons, So for full swings with your wedges, you get that same level of forgiveness. Uh, the same you know, wide soul for great turf interaction to prevent uh you know,
at the club from digging into the ground. But then kind of simplicity and you pitching wedge, you know, and then you have your sand wedge that you can use for your you know, high soft pitch shots.
Yeah that makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense. And is there a lot of bounce on that sandwich?
Uh?
Yeah, there's a there's a bounce. Is one of those funny things where when you when you get into it with with people who are too in the know about it, we all have our thoughts on how the world sees bounce. So it's a really wide soul.
So is that is that a big debate going on when you guys are sitting around a table.
The designer is going it's more a frustration of people's understanding of bounce because clubs are clubs are listed with effective bounce generally, so you know, there's bounce angle, which is truly the angle the soul like the leading edge is making with the ground as like the soul is going to you know, the contact point and the soul and so on. Some clubs it's listed as you know, a really low number, and you can look at a wedge and go, I can tell you there's more bounce
on there than that. And then you can look at one that's listed as a really low number because that angle is low, but because the soul is so wide, it plays effectively like there is more bounce, So we like we talk about it in effective bounce of it's a combination of multiple aspects of fact, how high off
the ground the leading edge gets and so on. This set, it's designed to be very playable, more bounced, which is going to lead to, you know, more forgiveness when it comes to you know, you're not when you're chiping, not putting the leading edge in the ground helpful in the bunker, and that wide soul kind of protects you that beginners aren't looking for the versatility generally that you know, better players are opening up the face and don't want the
leading edge to rise up too much, and they're they're looking to, you know, try to hit all sorts of different shots. Well, most people that would be you know, the set is geared towards are looking to make solid contact consistently when they chip the ball. So it's designed in a kind of a significant amount of bounce, but not too much that the leading edges are raising up too high that you kind of are going to scoll the ball, but with ideal for making consistent contact.
I would say, great, Great, that's the whole idea.
Yeah, consistency and making it easy.
Yeah, So go back to your chart on your screen. The degrees of loft between the seven and the eight, the eight and the nine. Is it consistent when we get to the pitching in the.
Sage, Let's see here, So there's about it spreads out a little more in the sand and lob wedge, so it's five degrees between uh from the seven through nine, and then on the wedges it goes to six degree gaps, so okay, so not not a huge difference. And it's they're designed to be used as full swing clubs as well.
You know, that's not just these are short game specific and so that's for gapping purposes to kind of make sure you're covered at all distances and you can learn those distances, and then also you know, to make sure
that they are relatively high. I would say these lofts are much more traditional and loft for what I'd say compared to you know, a lot of sets these days, especially you know, distance geared irons are a lot stronger lofted, but these are these lofts are a lot weaker, more traditional to help players hit it high in the air.
Yeah yeah.
And then uh, you guys have recently come out with the Allen putter, named after mister Parson's brother, and that is to put your entry into this zero torque revolution that's going on started by lab Golf and having a tremendous amount of success, and you guys were one of the first companies to come out publicly and say, yeah, we've got a zero torque putter, the Allan putter, And we can talk more about that, but let's finish off this Wildcat set and the putter that you have in that bag.
Yeah, So the putter that comes with the Wildcat set, it's called the black Hawk. It is a mallet style putter, has a long alignment line, has a lot of perimeter waiting.
So whenever we talk about perimeter waiting and golf, we're talking about adding forgiveness and that means on mishits, the club wants to stay straight or it doesn't want to rotate as much and it doesn't lose as much speed off the face, so more consistent on mishits, which as a beginner on putting is generally something that's more common than with more seasoned players. So it's a very high forgiveness model. And then the alignment line is very long
from front to back. The idea, everything we've done, all of our research says longer the alignment line, the easier it is to line up. It's really simple. So really for that that player type who you know a lot of players, there's a lot of blades out there on the PGA tour. Certain players just like to look at different things. Certain lighter players like small putters, like like
putters without alignment lines all sorts of things. I guess the alignment line that fits your eye, that is the longest is the best for you, would be my mind or my comment. But for players who don't necessarily have a preference yet, who haven't used a blade for years, I think the easiest thing to line up is going to be a nice, big, long line. So there's a
lot of perimeter waving. And then the other nice feature on the bottom of these there's a ball pickup pocket, which is kind of nice for a mallet to the pails. Now they pick it right up, move on. So uh, it's a it's a fun thing that I personally really enjoy. There's a lot of players who who don't want a putter that can't pick up a ball, and there's it's
it's something that that's certainly nice to have. And it's right in the center of the club where we're trying to remove mass from anyway, so it's a great spot to you know, take mass out and provide that as well.
All right, Caleb, Uh, just love the concept that you guys got going with the Wildcat set and who it's for and who it's directed to. But I want to I want to make a little bit of a left turn here, because there's another new club that you guys have recently announced that really has my interest.
Not that I don't love my p XG Driver, I do like it.
I still get my friends going WHOA when I when I hit one nicely off t But you have joined again. We talked about a revolution earlier. More and more people are bringing back a mini driver. I guess that would be a two would in the old days. But you guys have just introduced one, the secret Weapon mini Driver, And I'm sure that name didn't come out of your office, But tell me about your involvement with that and why we need to seriously consider a mini driver these days.
Yeah. So, I mean my role here at PXG, I'm the director of our Metal Woods R and D, so I do club design, I do the majority of our driver design, and then my team works through all the Faarawoods and hybrids as well. So, so we were responsible for the secret Weapon, and you know, it's something that
we we jumped on that we weren't really sure. It was more of a research project at the time, based on seeing kind of a couple of tour players that were playing them and interested in them of hey, maybe this is something to look at, and and the idea came as you know, we there have been two woods, we've had two woods before, but true mini driver that's almost I think of it as a fairwywood, like a three wood replacement that is more geared towards hitting off
the teeth. You know, a lot, Like I said, when it comes to Wildcats set, a lot of players come in for fittings and we go, hey, how do you use your fairwaywood? Do you hit your three with more off the tee? Do you hit off the deck? And they go, oh, I never hit it off the deck. So in that case, it's like, hey, here's something that's
more designed for being used off the deck. And I think the way we fit customers and reach customers with fitters can kind of talk you through the advantages and disadvantages and how you would use it in your game. It lends itself well to things that aren't as traditionally part of a golf bag. It's a little different. We've seen a ton of them the PGA Tour, and part of that is, you know, again, PGA Tour players are
built differently. They hit it so far that you know, We have Jake Napp who plays our secret weaponon tour, and he he hits his secret weapon three hundred yards plus, so it's like he's like, oh, yeah, I hit it. He hits it ten times around sometimes and it's off of tea and it's like he's he hasn't had a fairwywood into a green and I don't know, since I don't know if he turned fifteen, Like it's it's not.
He doesn't need a three wood that he can hit off the deck, so he wants something that is designed for off the tee that he feels comfortable, and the kind of the bigger head of the mini driver provides more distance off the tee at deeper face and then just more forgiveness on miss its too.
Okay, So for the recreational golfer who doesn't hit anything three hundred yards except two shots, why would I want to consider having a mini driver to replace my three wood?
I would say it's for players who who like to use a fairywood or something other than a driver off a tee. It's shorter than a driver, so we again it's custom fit so you can adjust length, but we have its stock at forty three and three quarters inches. It's kind of a low lofted fairy wood at thirteen degrees. It's just you know, when you're going, ooh, this is the type part four, but I still kind of have
to hit it a decent ways. I think it's a great option to have something a little shorter in terms of the club length with a little more loft to be able to say I can be confident in hitting this fairway. And it is something you know, we worked with our tour players to make sure it was something in a pinch they can hit off the deck too, So it's not like a club that's it's not like
hitting driver off the deck. It's you know, fairwoods in general, three woods can be hard to hit from fairway, and you know, this is I would say significantly easier to hit off the tee than a three wood, but maybe similar off the fairway. So for players who maybe struggle with the fairway, would maybe who who want to, you know, try something different to improve their their driving game and have something they hit a little farther off the tee than a three wood, but more a little more consistent
than a driver. It's a great option.
What's the degree of loft on the mini driver.
So it's thirteen degrees and it's adjust so you can go up or down a degree and a half, So eleven and a half to fourteen and a half.
Adjustable. And do you.
I've never wanted a mess with my clubs. It's like, oh adjusted because today I'm hitting the It's like that. That to me is a recipe for disaster. Do you recommend that once you have your fitting and you guys say, you know what, this is adjustable, but we're going to put you in fourteen degrees, leave it alone. If you're having a bad day, just come back tomorrow. How do you what do you suggest to people who want to make those.
Adjustments on their own?
It depends on the person. I know. People like me, I could say leave it, but I tinker with mine all the time.
So you're a club maker man, yeah.
I mean you get it if you know what's going on. If you have like an understanding of hey, I think I need more spin or I need less spin, or I'm hitting it too high or too low. Absolutely different areas. Maybe you're going to play at altitude you can use a little more loft. Things like that are absolutely reasons to adjust them. You know, we try to make it very simple, so worst case, you can adjust it right back. But the other benefit is you can always just you know,
call your fitter. Talk to your fitter, they'll work through it. So you know, call it PXG, talk to our player support team. They can talk you through. You know what you're dealing with, and you're going if you're going, hey, i'm hitting it too low, here's a couple of options in terms of adjustability. We can try to help. You can go into a store, they can get you on a monitor. We can kind of help get you sorted out, so that adjustability is helpful. If you don't know how
to adjust it. We have resources in terms of calling in or you know, some of the content we release on YouTube and things like that will help walk you through it if you want to educate yourself on it. I mean, I think it's fun to toy around with personally, and some people say, hey, I am a golf nerd. Absolutely there are some people out there who you know, the benefit, like the adjustability is still a benefit, but it's a benefit in the fitting environment and once it's set,
leave it. And if that's you, that's fine too. But I think it's still provides a lot of a lot of value for that player because they are able to dial in exactly you know, loft and CG location that they wouldn't be able to get with a driver that didn't have that adjustability.
But fascinating, fascinating.
Tell me about the fitting process that goes on for the average consumer and whether whether it's for you know, we're not determining if they want to get the the Wildcat set or a full set. What is the fitting process and how is it determined what would be best for that person?
So, I mean, yeah, fittings can be very different depending on who you at, your ability. You know, it's going to start with the same kind of static measurement on set, not a firm like not it We're not measuring your actual height, but talking through it, Hey, how tall are you? You know, how long you've been playing? How often do you play? You know, it's a it's a conversation with
the fitter as you get warmed up. They're trying to figure out what you're looking for, what you struggle with, what areas you know you are looking for improvement in what you've been playing. Things like that to kind of get to know you better as a player. Uh, they'll they'll take a look. If you bring in your old set, great, If not, that's fine too, but kind of get you started if you're you know, we do full back fittings that are quite a while, but in terms of you know,
they can. It's a lot of swings, so be ready to for a little bit of a workout and not a lot of us are used to hitting that many balls. But our goal is really too our fitter is going to try to get you into the proper model, proper chef length, li angle weight as few swings as possible, because is I think a lot of people don't have enough swings that we all. You know, it takes a while to warm up. Once you are in that warm zone, you have so many good swings before you start going downhill.
So our goal is always to get the proper club to you as quickly as possible. Process. We do that in a few ways. One way is we have a you know, an internal fitting tool we use, which is how our phone team operates. If you call in and want to get fit, they'll they'll walk through some questions
and it'll based on all the fittings we've done. In the past, all that data, we use that to come up with a recommendation, and then we'll use that in our if you come in this person as well, to get to a starting point, so to go, Hey, here's three shafts in a model club and a length and a lie. It recommends we can adjust from that. That isn't gospel, but it's a good starting point. It's usually pretty close. So we'll do that and then we can
kind of talk through and try a few different things. So, you know, a lot of people have experienced the hey, let's try a little lighter, let's try a little heavier, let's try a little longer, let's try a little shorter, and they're surprised sometimes to go. You know, I've played stock stock stock my whole life. It's interesting. I actually like a lighter swingweight and a you know, a shorter iron feels more consistent and I don't lose any speed
or you know whatever. The configuration is so more than anything. Fitting so important because you can just try different things and tinker and get to understand, you know, what all the things that can be changed in your equipment and what they're doing, and just whether it's so like the wildcats out like we said, or up to tour players. It makes golf easier. It's just being the proper ly angle and the proper length makes it easier and mix all of contact and those things are just so important.
Absolutely well. And that's what we just heard from the director of Metal Woods R and D kale Kalb cral Off. Thank you so much much for your time, for your explanation and the introduction to this fascinating set. If somebody is looking to get somebody into golf, this is you can you know, direct them towards these clubs.
If there's you know, if you're senior and you're.
Looking to you don't need to carry that many clubs because you're not that accurate. You might want to look into this as well. There's lots of reasons to look into it. And again I've been enjoying my Okay, I'm not gonna make this.
That just made it the infomercial, but.
Caleb, thanks so much for your time and your information.
It's fascinating.
I really appreciate it absolutely Thanks for having me