Hi, I'm andre Atto. I'm from Henderson, Nebada, and I play at Revere Golf Club and this is Golf Smarter.
Golf Smarter number one twenty nine.
I want to continue your work. We're different people but a lot of commonality, but we both like to talk about golf. And the people I have talked to for episodes that I've recorded, a lot of it is about different approaches to how to swing the club. But what's interesting to me is how to improve your game. But what's also interesting to me is the stories of the people behind what they did and how they came to doing that, and that is really fascinating to me. And
I love the different viewpoints people bring to it. It's like anything. If it's movies, if it's baseball, if it's politics, everybody's got their unique take on it. And so the point isn't the technical stuff, because I'm not qualified to
be a technical golf person. But I'm so frustrated by the world of you got to be in the right position, you got to do this, you got to do that, where you get caught up in trying to be perfect and trying to consciously do things, and so that's a lot of what the show is going to be about is people talking about practical advice about here's a couple drills that you don't need to take lessons.
So long, Fred, Hello, josh Ah, there's a chain to come.
This is Golf Smarter, sharing stories, tips and insights from great golf minds to help you lower your score and raise your golf IQ. Here's your host, Fred Green.
Welcome back to the Golf Smarter podcast.
Josh, Hey, Fred, thanks for having me.
Well, you know it's a little bit more than that being.
Here it is, but thank you for having me on regardless.
Yes, well you know you reached out to me recently saying I don't know if you remember me. I was on your show in twenty ten after I wrote a book called Straight down the Middle, and I'm like, of course I remember you. That was a fun that was a fun book and really entertaining for me, a really entertaining interview.
Oh well, no, Ill, I recall having a very good time when we talked last time.
We really did. We really did. So you I need to talk to the audience for a minute if you don't mind, Josh, I mean step The reason Josh is here today is we're making a change here in Golf Smarter. I want to thank all the Golf Smarter community, the ambassadors and the and golf smarters. Josh, don't know if you ever heard that term, but we call our golf itself Golf's martyrs. I'm a golf martyr, yeah right, and which kind of translated to golf Smarter at some point,
but it went turned into golf Smarters. I want to thank everybody for all their support over the years, and also their support for or this time that I've taken off. I've been off since early December. We've been playing the old episodes, and in that time, I was trying to figure out what's next for me because I turned seventy last August and I knew that I was going to be retiring at seventy, but I didn't know what to do about the podcast. I was really torn, do I
walk away from it? Am I done? You know? Ever since the episode four hundred, I've been going, yeah, I think I'm getting close to me And here we are at episode one twenty nine. An episode one thousand with Jim Nantz was probably the peak of my podcast experience, and I've been just trying to figure out what's next, what's next? And then Josh came to me and said, hey, I'm thinking of starting a golf podcast. Maybe I can
come on your show and promote it. And I'm like, oh, man, you just missed me because I'm not doing the interviews anymore. Last interview I did was in actually I did it in October, we published it in December, and I haven't done one since. And it seems like it's been like
six months as I've done an interview. And I suggested to Josh, you know, if you're going to start a golf podcast now, it's very different than when I started it in twenty two thousand and five, because when I started, there was like two other golf podcasts and those quickly disappeared.
And so here we are with Golf Smarter is the longest running golf podcast out there, and we've built this wonderful global audience of people who love Tony Manzoni as much as I do, who keep listening to the old episodes, which I'm truly grateful for. And I said, so, if you're going to start a golf podcast, it's going to be at least five years for you can either generate any revenue or build enough of an audience to generate some revenue. So maybe you'd like to take over Golf Smarter.
And so I started reading Josh's book again and I'm like, wait, this is Golf Smarter, and I need to ask you, Josh, what was your the journey that you wrote about in the book Straight Down the Middle, which was your second of three books. Correct, yes, but you're so far your only golf book.
My only golf book, yes, the only ones. I'd like to say, the only time I'll ever be paid to play golf in well, hopefully not.
But I started reading the book again, I'm like, my goodness, this is like my voice. This is so interesting to me that he's on a journey that I feel like I've been on for a long time, on different ways of approaching golf instruction, a lot of mental game stuff. And I said, you know, maybe you should just take over the show, and he was kind of your eyes when I when I suggest yes, you kind of bugged out of your head. And we've had multiple conversations since then.
And this episode here is to introduce the new host of Golf Smarter, Josh Carp.
First of all, I can only hope that I will be at this as successfully and as long as as you.
Were, and you being here as long as that.
Oh yeah, well, you know, a thousand episodes is a fairly daunting, daunting hill to climb. But but no, thank you so much for this opportunity. You know, I've always loved the show, and like I said, I had the best time, you know, when I was on fifteen years ago now, which is hard April.
Yeah, and then he has played as a Mulligan episode as number one hundred and thirty three.
So that's and your memory is killing me with the.
Kidding. I get lost in conversations. I have a spreadsheet with everything.
But no, I mean, I'm really honored that you would even think of me to do this, and I'm really excited to have the opportunity to carry on you know, your your work and such a great brand, and you know with just you know, I'm this, as we both know, came out of the blue kind of right. It was just just an email led to this, and and I'm really excited and uh and and like I said, it is carrying on a really a really great brand and
a really great show. And I just hope I can do as good a job as you've done with it over all this time.
Well, that's why I feel so confident in the in this move, because I've listened to a couple of your other interviews and we got to establish what you do. I mean, like I approach this show as a recording engineer who had the right equipment, with a lot of questions, and it just you know. And then sometimes even when I told people I'm a golf journalist, I would do the air quotes on journalists and cringe when I said it because I never really felt like I was a journalist.
I was just a guy doing a podcast, which I never anticipated the podcasting would be ubiquitous to like the planet.
People are like, oh yeah, good lord, Yes, yeah.
It's everywhere. And now like when I was coming through radio, it's if you had a radio show but you also had a column in the newspaper, or if you wrote a book, or if you were on TV. It's like, wow, cross media.
Right right now.
In that cross media conversation, people add, and I host a podcast.
Right well, and nobody's writing a column for the newspaper anymore. I mean, because all the you know that it's unbelievable that we've witnessed this huge change in the way the world operates, you know, media wise, I mean as well
as otherwise. But just you know, I was talking to somebody the other day and I was like, either there will be no newspapers in ten years or there will be such a backlash that we're all going to be reading the newspaper again, because it's just such a you know, it was such I mean, such a staple you know, of journalism and of what being you know, being alive in America. Wasn't that time, right, I mean that was
and now it's just everything changes so fast. So it is now there are a lot more a lot more podcasts than there are guys who are writing columns for the Chicago Sun Times or the same.
You would believe the number of podcasts that are generated by AI voices. Oh massive, there's like and so I can testify here to everybody, Josh and I are real.
They would not create AI like me.
For sure, or me. But the fact is you're more than You're not a recording engineer. You're a journalist U and a writer and a producer and actually, can I use the word journalism professor.
Let's say, instructor, a journalism instruct since I have no officialstigious university. Yes, I teach. I not as much anymore, but for I occasionally teach journalism at Northwestern and I've taught for years. I was like teaching multiple classes there every semester. Yeah, and I'm I'm a I'm an actual journalist, and I think I'm you know, got to the point. Yeah, I do a lot of print work or I have
for you know, different magazines. I've written for Vanity Fair and Esquire and uh and Playboy, and I've had a pretty regular gig at a at a thing called Airmail, which is which is an electronic magazine that was started by Graydon Carter who used to run Vanity Fair and uh, you know and that. And it's funny because I really, you know, as far as golf writing, I mean, I really I wrote. I wrote the book straight down the middle.
And before that, I used to write for Links magazine, which was, by the way, a fun gig, and that was I got paid to play golf for that too, and that was really fun, you know, getting to go around and play you know, different you know, courses and write about them. But but mostly I mean I write
about popular culture. I write about the making of movies. Uh, usually the making of really kind of screwed up movies like Caligula or or the Last Movie, which was Dennis Hopper's follow up to Easy Writer That Like, and he ended his career just as it was, as he was the most important director in Hollywood for five minutes. And then just weird little stuff. I I you know, I wrote a thing about the more recently the Burt Reynolds Dinner Theater in Jupiter, Florida, and all the all the
crazyness that went on there. But yeah, so I mean, I'm I'm you know. And then I've written books. I wrote a book about the making of the Orson Wells movie The Other Side of the Wind, which was kind of this insane ten year making of this movie that he never finished.
I would say that book.
The name of the book is called Orson Wells's Last Movie, not my choice. They always changed my titles. But uh, and then and then my other book is called A Feudal and Stupid Gesture, which is about Doug Kenny and the guys who started National Lampoon Magazine and made Animal House in Caddyshack, and then Doug, who was kind of the genius behind all of it, very mysteriously fell off of a cliff in Hawaii and died at a young age, and nobody ever kind of really knew what happened to him.
But you know, so it's I'm I'm really a kind of a pop culture and kind of Hollywood you know, making of films type writer. But you know, I've always I mean, I've been a golfer since I was about thirteen.
Got one on me there too.
Well, No, I mean my interest in golf is you know, I started playing when I was a teenager, played on my high school team, was not the number one player on that team, played on a very bad Division III college team, and was certainly not the number one player
on that team. But I've been kind of, you know, had this whole thing of being like stuck for many years as about a you know today, a Division three golfer is you know probably you know, a single digit you know, or scratch player, you know, McAllister College in nineteen eighty, eighty five and eighty six. You know, I was like a thirteen handicap and I was good enough to be the you know, number five guy in a
team where probably our best player was a five. But I I just I've always loved golf and it's always been kind of such a The people involved in the game have always fascinated me. The different approaches to the game, you know, I have always interested me, and I just I love the history of the game and I love, uh, you know, kind of trying.
You know.
My my great dream, which will never come to be realized, is to look like Sam Snead when I sing a golf club, which having been at a uh what's it called a simulator with one of my kids the other day and they replayed my swing and I was like, that is not Sam Snead. That is that is decidedly me. So no matter how good it feels like I'm swinging, you know, I'm always kind of on the quest to
have a better swing, you know. I just I just love the game and I love, you know, everything about it, and uh so I'm really excited to be able to talk about it, you know, and you know, and do this, you know, going forward.
Josh, I want to I want to discuss your book, your second book, Straight down the Middle, which came out in twenty ten is, which is how we first met. Because there are many people in that book that have been featured on Golf Smarter.
Our guests, our guest lists overlap or by by by by chapter's overlap with your guests.
Yes, right, And actually the next episode we're going to do next Tuesday. Next week, we'll be with Jim Waldron, who's not only featured in your book and been featured many times on Golf Smarter, but he's giving me golf lessons right right, taking for the first time, I'm taking golf lesson. So anyway, we're gonna both interview him, and then after that it's going to be Golf Smarter will cantinue twice a week each each beginning of the week, each Tuesday will be Golf Smarter with Josh carp and
Corrected Mistakes are we calling? Are we saying that.
Golf correct mistakes golf? Which comes just to clarify for
everybody that please it. When I was kind of working on doing a podcast, you know, golf podcast before you and I talked, I had, you know, it was kind of come looking around for titles and and you know, wanted to have something that was related to kind of the history of the game and especially the history regarding the swing, because I interviewed a lot of people about various players throughout history, various approaches to the swing itself, and you know how how you know how guys like
you and I can get better. And obviously the one person everybody looks to is is Ben Hogan, and and he famously said that a golf swing is a collection of correct mistakes. And I, for my game that certainly was applicable. And so I kind of want to do invoke you know, I wanted to invoke the history, and I want to invoke you know, the iconic uh, these iconic figure So it's gonna be Golf Smarter's correct Mistakes on Tuesdays, on Tuesdays and Fridays, right, Fridays will be my old episodes.
We'll continue with that because we're only up to like halfway through what I did. And you know, again, mulligans are just episodes that are more that are most relevant today, which is basically golf instruction. We don't look at rules or tournament events, which we rarely talked about anyway, but golfers we can talk about always as we continue to do, whether we're talking about Ben Hogan or our Bobby Jones or Tiger Woods, which I just a moment on Tiger Woods.
How ironic was it that the week that Tiger had this another accident in a car. And we don't have to go on and on about that too many people have already, But that week, as we're replaying all the old Tony Manzoni episodes, that week the episode was called if Tiger called Tony for help, what would he say? And it was about the golf swing, not about the Battle's drunk driving quiz, because Tony Manzoni is partying time in the sixties and so he's well aware of that too.
Sure, yeah, that's no. The whole thing with it's really yeah, I don't, I know, we don't want to spend the time time on Tiger, but it's you know it, you know, not to make light of any of it, but I remember when his whole thing happened with his wife and you know and all that, and I my my major recollection was, you know, how it was being covered, like, you know, there were helicopters flying over his house and there are news trucks, and I thought, this guy has
just gotten caught cheating on his wife. And he has now stuck in his house with his wife, his mother, his mother in law, and probably a bunch of lawyers. And I was like, for any of us who envy the life of Tiger Woods, I was like, this is good. I'm like, whatever he's got, this has got to really be dampening that entire experience. I mean, you know, it's it's interesting because he's such a.
Disciplined you know, kind of all that kind of all went out the window after his father passed. Yeah, yeah, I went nuts, yeah the way.
And it's odd because you know, I was talking to somebody and we were talking about a different athlete, but I was like, you know he I mean, obviously his dad was a huge influence on him, but yeah, there's kind of that. You're Marv Marinovich. Todd Marinovich's dad, the quarterback for the USC who was raised to be a quarterback and never had a piece of cake and never had a McDonald's hamburger and was very good at USC, played for the Raiders, just totally lost it once he
kind of got out in the world. And I think that's a really hard I mean, I think you have to be and I think Tiger is a very mentally strong person, obviously, because on the golf course, you know, nobody has I've you know, Nicholas maybe you know, has had that kind of mental toughness. But like you know, it's it's it's not a super balanced upbringing when you are under that kind of you know, just when you're being driven to be something by an outside force. You
know who's who's your parent. And that's nothing against his dad. I mean, it's just you see it everywhere. I mean, you see it on the little league fields, you see it, right,
and you know, youth hockey. I mean, my kids all played sports, and there are all these people you know who, especially when they're young, who think, you know, oh, you know, home run, he's you know, he's Willie Mays, you know, and it's and it and all this intensity gets thrown at a kid and and I think, you know, as talented as he was and all that, you know, I mean, it's got to it can't have been easy to grow
up with somebody driving you. And I think once that goes away, it gets very hard to hold it together.
And you don't mean driving the car for you, No, not driving now. He needs now he needs a driver. Yes, now, Tiger, you are so lucky that you didn't get hurt or well, you didn't hurt somebody, because God forbid that Tiger Woods ends up in prison for the rest of his life. Oh yeah, no, I mean that's yeah.
I mean, And I and I last thing I'll say is I you know, it's funny, you know, because you know, you look at people and you think they all have you know, like Tiger, and you go, oh my god, what I wouldn't give, you know, to have that kind of talent, that kind of money.
And remember Charles Barkley thing about b don't make me as your role model, you can use me as a goal model. I always loved that. I always love that because you don't want to be Charles Barkley, but.
No achieve his success, right. And I and I guess I you know, I feel I feel for Tiger, you know, I mean, I really do, because because I you know, it's just because we love him, yeah, right, I mean, and there's never nobody I mean, you know, it's it's like Michael Jordan, you know, watching a guy like that, you just watch them and it's like you're seeing something you're never going to see.
Again, right, right, all right, So so that's not where we were going. I want to talk about straight your book, Straight down the Middle, which I'm thoroughly enjoying. Again, I highly recommend people to get to know Josh, read this book, you know, and then follow the podcast and you'll, you know, it'll you'll ease right into it. So what why was it feeling like I was listening I was reading about golf smarter? I mean, with all these people, is that
something that was behind it? Or well? I think am I fishing for a compliment here?
No? I mean I know, first of all, I mean I think there is this this you know, way in which you and I certainly overlapped and our interests and the people we connected with. Yeah, but I think you and I, you know, as we've discussed kind of off the air, have a lot in common and uh, you know, and I just think, you know, it's it's funny. I mean, you know, the book Resident they did with a certain group of people, and it's very interesting, you know, for
the first doesn't happen so much anymore. But I'd say the first ten years after it came out, I would get an email, you know, once a month from somebody who said, you know, I read your book, and this actually is is kind of hilarious in some ways because they would say, you know, I read your book and I went out and I had a hole in one on the second hole, my first hole, And they'd say, and I knew, and I have never had a hole
in one. Wow in my life certainly, But I mean, I would say that either a hole in one or shot the best round of their life. And I number one. Will just give you a disclaimer as someone who is about a twelve handicaper, I've improved my game by about five or six strokes when I was doing the book. I am no one to be giving anyone golf advice.
So it was you know, but it was Yeah, the book really it was so much fun, and it kind of, in a weird way, wrote itself because it was just this journey to try to find alternative ways to improve your golf game, kind of beginning with you know, the really beginning with Michael Murphy's. Uh, the idea came from the fact that you have three of the best selling golf books ever written. Or then Golf by Joe parent in a book. What yes, he's in the book.
He is in the book book, and also episode one of Golf Smarter.
And I didn't know he was your first guest.
He was Episode one.
That's that's a good first guest, by the way, it's a good gut And then Michael Murphy's Golf in the Kingdom and the Legend of Bag of Vance by Stephen Pressfield, all of which have something in common, which is that, you know, here's those you know, I said, I'm like a pop culture writer, and I was like, okay, here's this game that I have always associated with, you know, plaid pants, people my dad like, who were my dad's friends?
And Pat Summer all and here it is the three of you know, maybe the five best selling golf books ever are all rooted in Eastern spirituality. And and I had this just totally hilarious experience I had. There's a guy named sak Young Rimpochet who is leader of I can't even remember what the name of the organization is anymore, but a big Buddhist organization in the US. And I went to a meditation seminar on a Friday night with my wife and as I think I say in the book,
I was the only person. They're wearing a white sox hat, which immediately labeled me as like, you know, the absolute outsider. And we did, you know, we did meditation and stuff, and I'm like sitting there going You're like, I just want to go eat. I want to you know, go see a movie. You know, I couldn't do anything to get out of there. And you know, I'm trying to be nice, you know, and be a good boy for
my wife and not act like a child. And when we go around the room after a meditation session, somebody says, the guy says, you know, talk each of you talk about how you know, meditation has impacted your life, and everybody's gaining some deep understanding of the world. And they get to me and I had been meditating for about six months and I was like, you know, it's taking
a couple of strokes off my golf game. And they all looked at me like, oh, you know, like this ye'ar they're about to like, you know, all the Buddhists were going to stone me for mentioning golf. And the guy who led the thing said, well, you know, the sock young is an avid golfer. And I thought, oh, that's a great magazine article, right, I'll go, you know, and it'll be like the you know, Dali Lama thing in Caddyshack, and he'll be wearing robes. And of course
that never happened. But I started thinking about this and I thought, you know, this could be such a fun book because there's so much alternative golf instruction out there, and so I, you know, I just started finding people who had kind of esoteric, kind of Eastern tinged methods of teaching golf. And of course that involved Joe Parent, that involved Jim Waldron, involved Jamie Zimron and I'm tried. I don't even know who else is on your show that I worked.
With, but Michael Murphy was mentioned.
Yeah, Michael Murphy. Michael Murphy I did not play with, but but I certainly was inspired by his. And the final chapter though, is U is an outing at h AT in Wisconsin at h Well. I talked to Fred. He did not work with me, but he was very very kind. But I I went to Whistling Straits and played in an outing with the Shivas Iron Society and that was the final chapter. So that was kind of, you know, Michael Murphy inspired thing, and that was really
that was a really great experience. Man, it was just such a great group of people, all from different walks of life, all of whom have read this book, you know, Murphy's book and had it impassed. Yeah.
Yeah. And Ben Klein is now the is now running Shivas Iron Society. Played golf with him down in Carmel about two years ago. Okay, and so yeah, still love Shiva's Iron. Still love the group and the people associated. Yeah, and so this is why, you know, to me, I never thought of it as, oh, we're going to take an Eastern philosophy view of golf. It just kind of worked out that way when I started thinking about the mental aspects of it, and it all kind of fell into place as we did over the years.
Yeah. Well, yeah, the mental game stuff, you know, it's and you know, the mental as far as my mental game, if I have one, has certainly evolved over time, but it really that stuff has really remained the core of it.
I mean I learned things like, you know, when you triple bogia hole that you have to you can't go to the next hole and think I Am going to kick the crap out of this ball and make up for all those strokes with one shot, which I have had all have done, right, you know, and so you know, and I'm able to, you know, kind of stop myself and say, you know, I remember it's just a game. I remember, it's just a nice walkouts walk in nature. I remember that it's time with friends that I'm supposed
to be enjoying myself. I don't. I still have, but I don't, you know, frequently drive home after you know, shooting a bad round and you know, doing that whole thing where I'm like, I'm never playing this game again. I don't know what I was thinking. But I used to do that. I mean, I used to beat myself up up on the course like you cannot believe. And after I played, I like, you know, and what's the consequence of my my shooting an eighty five or ninety three?
You know, it means nothing to the world, but it was, you know, it gets you out of yourself to take that different perspective.
Well, I really do hope that listeners will go out and buy the book. I'd like to see a bump in your sales on the book. But also it's just a great way to understand where the where this podcast is going to go in the future and where is it going to go? What do you what do you envision the future of golf smarter to be?
Well, you know, I want to continue your work and it's just going to be me doing it with maybe a little more. Yeah, we're different people, but like I said before, you and I have a lot of commonality and we both like to talk and we like to talk about golf, and so what I really want to do, you know, I mean a lot a lot of you know, the people I have talked to, you know, for episodes that I've recorded, you know, a lot of it has kind of swing, you know, about different approaches to how
to swing the club. But it's also just about the game and it's really about getting you know, what's not is what's interesting to me is how to improve your game. But what's also interesting to me is the stories of the people behind absolutely what they did and how they
came to doing that. And it's you know, and that is really fascinating to me, you know, because you just have one thing that always blows me away is several of the people I've interviewed, you know, they say, oh, yeah, I picked up the game at sixteen, and you know, by the time I was seventeen and a half, I was shooting sixty eight and I just think, way, way,
way wait, whoa, whoa, whoa. And then you have people like you know, Crystal Garcia, who I interviewed and who I think even viewed as well, who was shooting one hundred, and you know Red Hogan's I'm you know, Red Hogan's Five Lessons revamped his own swing based you know, and his theories based on that, and is now teaching golfer living.
And I love the different viewpoints people bring to it because it's, you know, it's it's like anything, you know, I mean, it's you know, if it's movies, if it's baseball, if it's politics. Everybody's got their unique take on it.
And so it's really interesting to hear, you know, like and just use Kristo's an example, you know, my whole their last you know, probably from nineteen ninety five to two thousand and fifteen, I can't tell you how many times there had somebody say, oh, well, he's coming over the top. That's his problem. He's coming over the top. And you know, he teaches, he says, his whole thing is He's like if you really watch videos of you know, the great golfers of the twentieth century. They're all coming
over the top. And the point isn't the technical stuff because I'm not a technical you know, I'm not qualified to be a technical golferson, but just how it takes, you know, it's not so much about whether you're I'm so frustrated by the world of you know, you got to be in the right position, you got to do this,
you got to do that. Where you get caught up in trying to be perfect while you're playing and trying to consciously do things, and what really is is it's about kind of learning different skills that just you find
your swing. And so that's a lot of what the show is going to be about is people talking about different ways they've found their swings and their methods and where they came from and how they got there, and then you know, just kind of some real practical advice about you know, here's a couple drills that you know, you don't need to take lessons, because that is one thing. I mean, how much golf instruction is out in the world on YouTube, oh my gosh and Instagram, and it's
all contradictory and so much. Yeah, yes, I.
Mean you can't you know these That's the thing is like I always had people I can't tell you how many instructors I've had on the show that said I found Ben Hogan's secret. Well, who am I to dispute it? And I think that that one of the things that you said rings true for both of us, which is why I thought you'd be such a great host for the show, is that we're not qualified to teach. We're here to learn. And I think that that it is
become a voice to a lot of people going. I don't want to hear what the odds are or what the payouts were to last week's tournament or next week. I don't want to have two instructors talked talking to themselves and nobody understanding what they say. I mean, I just wanted to have a show that allowed me to learn, but also gave voice to the recreational golfer. Right, And so I think that you know, I'm a twelve handicapped Now I was low at one point and now I'm not.
I feel like i'm not, but I'm still like, hey, I'm still at twelve. That's pretty good. But I'm not qualified to teach right. Yeah. And at a very funny situation, my buddy Kevin and I were playing and around at one of our favorite courses, Foxtail North recently, and there were the and we teed off. There were two guys were teeing off behind us. We were twosome. We said, you want to join us. They're like, no, no, that's okay. You guys, we're we're not very good, so you guys
just go ahead and play in front of us. It's like fine, okay. So we didn't play with him, but I talked to him at tea boxes a couple of times. Then they pulled up to one of the tea box and number ten or eleven and one of the kids, two young men, and he said, do you mind if I ask you a question? And I was like sure, go ahead, and he goes, how do you get the ball off the tee? How do you hit the ball straight off the team? I'm like, you're asking, We've never
talked and you want to ask me that question. It's like a right, don't know. And Kevin started giving him lessons and showing him his hands and doing things, and I'm like, just slow down and don't try to hit it hard. That's all I'm gonna tell you. I don't want to say just slow it down. If you try to hit it hard, you're gonna go over.
You get it.
You create tension in your body. And this is all stuff I've learned in the show. You got to loosen the tension and stuff. So yeah, the fact that you're not qualified to teach, but love the game and loved to improve and want to hear great stories. And well you said we like to talk. Do I like to talk? I like to listen?
Yeah, I prefer to listen. Right.
But one of the things that happened while in this six month period that I've been trying to figure out what I was going to do next, whenever stories came across my desk that usually I'm like, oh that's interesting. I want to get that person on the show, right, I started seeing those stories going yeah, I'm not interested. I'm like, oh, that's gonna tell me something. I just wasn't interested in pursuing it. I'm like, yeah, I think I'm done. I think I think it's time. I'm done,
But I am going to come back. Oh yeah, right, are you gonna Besides being on Fridays, right. I'd love to occasionally say hello, you.
Are welcome any any time and as often as you would like to like to be involved, and I would hope that you would.
Well, of course we're going to do next week. We're going to have Waldron one.
Yeah.
One of the things on your CV, your resume just call them, uh, is you're a producer.
Yes.
Can you tell me more about that? That fascinates me? Yeah, well, I as producer, I mean so many different things that depending on which media, your medium you're discussing. You know, I was a radio producer, which was what I made commercials, or I produced the morning show or you know, but but that's not what you're doing.
Yeah. Yeah, I mean I I I had I really lucked into it. You know, it's funny. I mean, I I remember when I started my career, my whole goal was I was like, I just want to be able to make a living as a journalists and support my family. And that happened way more quickly than I than I thought it was going to. So I was kind of like, okay, and then you know, everything I've done has kind of I just you know, I get to this point where you know, I look back five years and say, wow,
I never thought I'd be doing this. And in like twenty fifteen, I was. I was working on a TV project, Like I was. I was writing a TV script that I sold but the to to a famous actors production company. But and then it never went really far past that.
But we worked on developing it and stuff. And when I was working on that, I got a call from the guys who had who had optioned my first book, A feudal and stupid gesture, and and they were like, you know, and they had been trying to get it made for about five years, and it was always you know, the story of oh, you know, so and So's in so and So's in so and So's in but we got half the money, but we don't have the other half.
And it's a very trick you know, it's a tricky the way thing that I learned a lot about how the way things work with all that in Hollywood. Anyway, long story short, they went into a meeting at Netflix. And this was right before Netflix got into This is at the absolute beginning of them getting into original production.
You know, they were still the company they were they had Netflix, but they were still you know, just kind of coming out of that sending back your DVD's era, and and they went into a meeting and they came out forty five minutes later and they're like, done, deal, We're making the movie. And so I'm like, oh my god, this is like talk about something I never thought would happen. Yea and am around the same time, you know, the
one thing that happens. You know, people don't just email you about your holes in one they or their holes in one. They all kinds of people email you and you write a book and they say, hey, I'm a director, i'm a producer. I'd like to, you know, make a movie out of your book. And I just kind of, you know, it was like you know, I at first it was really exciting, and then you start googling them very flattering and then but then you kind of get where you google the person you go like, well, I
don't see that they've ever made anything. So I got an email shortly after the deal got made for my first book to be made into a movie, and it was from a guy and he just said, you know, hey, I've wanted to make a documentary about this Orson Wells movie forever. And I just read your book and blah blah blah, you know, do you want to talk? And I wasn't, you know, And I was like, yeah, sure, of course. And then I googled him and I was like,
oh my god, this guy is like really legitimate. He had won the ass for Best Documentary like two years before. And his name is Morgan Neville and he's great. And he let you know, he had me work as a producer and the Source and Wells documentary and then and and really, I'm you know, I'm not producing in any kind of technical way. It was really you know, and I wasn't writing it per se, but I was doing
a lot of the interviews. I was doing a lot of you know, I was he was certainly the creative person behind it, but I did a lot of the interviews and also was allowed to have a lot of input into some of the creative stuff. And I love that. And when you're a writer, you spend all your time unless you're interviewing somebody alone. And I love the collaborative nature of working on a film. And I love movies. I mean, that's you know, another thing, you know, I mean,
I love movies like I love golf. And and then I've worked as a consulting producer on his One of his more recent ones that just came out in December. It was called Breakdown nineteen seventy five that was on Netflix. That was about the basically the movies of nineteen seventy five and how they reflect the culture.
Oh really, Oh yeah. I was like. My wife and I started watching. She goes, oh, this isn't about nineteen seventy five, and I'm like, no, it's about the movies of nineteen seventy five that were commenting on American culture, right. It was like and I loved it. I thought it was fascinating.
My wife, Oh, it was a blast. I mean, I had so much fun working on it. And I love to learn about stuff, you know, and I got to learn about all, you know, all kinds of you know, felt like I didn't know much about the Church Commission, and all of a sudden, I'm trying to find movies that reflect what's going on in the Church Commission. And it was just you know, and I just I love I love doing that stuff. And I have other you know, TV and film projects that I'm working on right now,
both as a producer and a writer. But yeah, so I mean and and I you know, and I have other you know, film ish projects in development that I'm producing. But I'm really, like, I would say, a creative producer more than a producer producer. Like if you put me in charge of the production, like the woman who is my co producer on the orson Wells One, I mean, I could not do what she does. She made sure everything got done and I just did my thing. So that's kind of what I'm gonna.
Okay, okay, good, Well, I'm glad we got to we get to learn more about that. Yeah, so I'm curious here. Do you have any questions for me?
I certainly do. Oh so let's first of all, tell you know, tell me a little bit about what's been going on with you, you know, since you've decided to step away from golf murder, and you know what and what you plan to do other than and I know golf is a big piece of it. So I want to hear about that.
Well, it's in interesting because there was no plan. There's never been a plan. I'm not good at that. We have that, yeah, I'm never never good at the plan part. I just felt like, you know, I turned seventy in August, and I felt like I'm ready to retire. And what's so fascinating is everyone's asking me, what are you going to do? What are you going to do? What are you going to do? And that is what I've given all a tremendous amount of thought because I've been doing
my whole life. I've been incredibly blessed that I was able to go into business for myself in nineteen eighty six, and I've had to reinvent myself many times doing that, which was great advice from one of my mentors. It's like, you need to listen. When you're self employed, you got to reinvent yourself every Monday. And I've had some luck, I've had some good fortune on some projects, and so my feeling is right now, I don't want to do anything.
I just want to be yeah, which is hard, right, which is.
Really hard to do. But I just want to just, you know, appreciate where I am in my life and value this incredible relationship that I've had with my wife, going on forty six years this year will be married, and we have three amazing grandchildren and our sons are doing well, and I just want to focus on that part of my life going forward in the you know, because like when I turned seventy, I remember saying, We're at dinner with some friends, and I said, you know,
the big birthdays are when there's a zero on it, right, those are always the big birthdays. And so I guess this is one of the big birthdays. But the thing is why may only have hopefully one maybe two left in those. So it's like, do I need to do? No, I don't want to do. And so I've decided that in thinking a lot about it, one of my favorite times of my life was growing up and having recess. That's what I want to do. I want to have recess.
So I've been acting like a teenager. I sleep late, and then when I get up, I'll spend an hour reading articles and laying in bed, you know, with my iPad. Then I get up and I'll do yoga and stretching. And then it's a choice of do I practice golf, do I play golf, do I go swimming? And then there's always got to go for a walk because I
got a dog, so I got to walk. We like to hike, and Joanne loves to hike, and I always say I love to hike too, but every so often I want to hit something, so I want to walk. I want to walk more. I want to play, you know, I definitely want to play more. And I'm actually and listeners who've been with me for a while will know that I've always talked about I've got a golf course right outside my window here, but I'm not a member.
I've put in my application to become a member of the golf course because I was looking at different places of where I could go and become a member, and I'm like, why am I looking other places. There's a golf course in my backyard right right, and they have a great practice facility, and they have tennis and pick a ball and a full gym and a great restaurant and swimming pools. But a swimming pool is like, they don't designate laps for swimming, and it's only open from
May to October. It's come on, this is Marin County. What are you doing. I swelled swim twelve months a year, so anyway, the swimming part may not work out for me. But the great restaurant and the practice and one time I did an interview with somebody, We're talking about the value of golf country club membership. And I say, yeah, I guess the coolest thing is you can play as much as you want. He's like, ah, that's the difference. I get to play as little as I want. I'm like,
what do you mean? He goes, if I want to play three holes today, I'll play three holes. I want to play five, I want to play nine. I can do whatever I want. I can play as little as I want, not as much as I want. And to me that was like, oh, so I can go. I have two holes right in my backyard. I could play these two over and over, or I've even set up like, oh, there's a five hole loop that I could just do, start on the next hole and end here and do
that and go practice. So that's what hopefully in my feudre And then we love to travel, so I want to continue traveling doing a lot more so it's you know, and listen to podcasts.
What's where? Where do you want to travel? Like is there any place you're dying to go to that you haven't been or that you want to go back to.
Or yeah, Joanne's in charge of booking those trips. But I have my three years ago I said for my seventieth birthday, I want to spend a month in Australia. Well we're not even booking a trip to Australia yet, and it's like, well, can we just go to New Zealand then yeah, well we'll get there at some point, but there's other places we got to go first. So
we love international travel. We love exploring. Uh. I would love to just be able to get in the car, go away for two days and go play golf somewhere, you know, just do road trips for golf and I we we really I want to go back to South America. I love South America. I feel like Europe is like obvious, you will go to Yeah, yeah we did Europe, we did last year. But I love I live the Far East and I love South America. I want to go back to Australia, which I went once, but I want
to go to New Zealand as well. I love to travel more with my golf clubs. We don't usually do that, but this country club here is a Troon Privey course, so I'll be able to go and take advantage of the Troon courses, which would be awesome.
Yeah.
The problem with this golf course, we put our deposit in for membership, and it's like, oh, there's a year long waiting list. Wait a minute, I'm ready now. Oh well, you got to wait for people to quit or die, and that's not going to happen in the spring, that's going to happen. So and even though Ken Doherty, who is the director of golf here, it's been on the program multiple times, you know, and I did video work for this golf course. I produced some videos for them.
Sorry it doesn't count. Nope, you're starting from scratch. So I don't know when i'll we get to be a member there, but that's one of the things that I want to do.
Yeah, for sure. No, that's no. It's funny, like you know, I always think about what it would be to stop doing, you know, and to just try to like enjoy what's here.
We've always said about ourselves, we're not human beings, we're human doings, right, and we're constantly on the move and you know, very fast paced.
Yeah, it's really I mean, I've always I remember my father. I always thought he ran a family business and I always thought, man, they're going to drag him out of there on a stretcher. By his feet when he's ninety eight years old and he's going to be telling people what they should be doing on the way out the door. And he sold the business when he was my age actually choose it was the bakery of my age. Yes, I am fifty nine years old, okay, and I was
actually many years for golf smarter. Yes, as a brief digression, I was just in Mexico and spring break with my kid and I went to play golf and I took an uber and I was having a little bit of a language barrier with this kid who was driving the uber, and he was twenty five. But I said how old are you? And he said I'm twenty five And he said how old are you? And I said I'm fifty nine and he said, you look great for seventy nine, and I it's fifty nine.
You know. I was like, oh, well, you look like crap. I know.
Well, that's why I was. It was like seventy nine. I guess I look good for seventy nine. But no, it's yes, I'm fifty nine years old, and I'm actually you know, it's funny, you know, as I'm about turned sixty in October, and I really have No, it's I'm excited to turn sixty, which I never would have thought I would be. But I'm just kind of like, you know, it's a nice it's a nice time in my life. And I'm about to have my youngest goway to college
and have some small version. I still have to pay for college, so I can't I can't start traveling like that. But I you know, I'm I'm kind of excited for what that new world is going to be for me. So I think we're both going through different versions of similar stuff.
Yeah. Yeah. Oh and one one more thing that I do do my daily routine. I also have now started not only do I do my stretching and yoga in the morning, I do it before I go to bed.
That's smart.
Oh my god, is that helped my sleep? Because that's been tough.
You know who is a big advocate of that. No, Ricky Henderson. Really he stretched before he went to bed because he said he will couple lose WHOA.
I didn't know.
Yeah, isn't that wild? But I've I've actually and I've done I've been just Ricky being Ricky, Ricky.
Being Ricky man. Oh god, so many stories, you know, It's so interesting because I don't know why I just got jones to look at this, but episode five hundred was on my sixtieth birthday. Oh really yeah, it was published on my sixtieth birthday.
And who wasn't uh.
Richard Cessna and the goal and the it was golf's ultimate goal, shooting your age or lower, which interesting I'm just looking at that now. But which is interesting about that is that one of the goals I've set for myself. I think there are three golf goals in life, and one is a hole in one, two is going to the Masters, and three shooting your age.
Right.
So I've done the first two, only one hole in one, only one appearance to the Masters last year, and maybe never again, but hopefully Chet if you're listening, I'll go anytime. And then the third one is I want to This is why I'm taking lessons from Jim Waldron is I want to be able to shoot my age before I turn seventy six. I've shot, I've shot pre below seventy five a couple of times, so I know I can do this.
I want to shoot that's that would be a great achievement. I mean that, I mean I mean, I I because it's just you know, it's it's funny like it. First of all, I'm sure you will be able to do it.
You know, I'll come back and report it.
Damn. Yeah. But it's so you know, it's for me. The main challenge with that is always when you're playing so well, not thinking about how well you're playing, you know, and not going off the rails because you're like, oh my god, I just part of the first.
To score a card. Just be surprised at the end. Don't look at that.
Yes, yeah, exactly. Well that's a good goal. I like it. I It's gonna be a little while. I don't think I'm gonna be shooting any fifty nine anytime since.
So, okay, but your show go.
Now I'm taking over. This is not yet, yeah, I know. So So for you know, if you've done a thousand plus of these interviews, and I know Tony Manzoni was you know, is incredibly popular, but who's and I know Jim Nance was a big, you know, huge thing for you. You know what, I guess who's the most fun interview you've ever had? And what was the most unexpected interview you've had with somebody? What you know, where you just were like, it went completely differently than you ever thought it would.
Oh God, there's a long list of like when people like and people has always always asked me, Oh, you're a new podcast, who is your favorite interview? Well, now I can go jim Nantz. Bump done. Oh that's a get Oh good job jim Nantz. But I've always loved the crazy stories. And there's a couple that always jumped out to me. There was one the young man who snuck into North Korea to play in the North Korean Open.
Oh is the kid?
So wow, yeah, I'll find it. Let's see from Korea and oh wait, that's not what I meant to do. Fine, okay, so this young man this was no, not him, I'm gonna find it and nope and nope. Come on, did I really mention Korea that many times in this show? Justin Crybec? Okay, so this was in twenty fourteen. Justin Crybec, who was in his mid twenties, a time he had dual citizenships, so he had a European and an American passport, and he loved golf, but he knew he was not
good enough to play in a national open. But really wanted to play in the National Open, and so he was able to use his other passport. He lived in San Francisco in the Financial District, and he snuck into North Korea and tells this whole story about how he played the North Korean Open. Wow, and he had crazy stories about like they told him don't look, don't you can take pictures except for like holes four, five and six or something, And he's like, why they said, just
don't take pictures on those holes. And he remembers walking down the fairway and there was somebody in the bushes with binoculars watching them.
Oh my god.
And then and the other great story was how after one of the rounds, he went to his room and went to get something out of his safe and he couldn't open it. The combination to change and he had stuff in his safe. So he went to his handler and it's a great episode. It was a great episode. This was when it was the nineteen twenty sixteen. In September twenty sixteen, episode five poin fifty eight. He went to his handler and said, Hey, I can't get into my safe to get stuff out, and she said, what
are you hiding. He's like what goes, Why do you have to put things in a safe? What are you hiding right? And he's like, oh no, no, no, no. In the United States, well like people steal things out of hotel room, so we put things in the safe just to make sure he doesn't get stolen. She goes, good answer, I'll get someone to open it for you.
Oh wow.
So going into the final round, he was like two shots back of the lead. Get up, and he got to the eighteenth hole and kind of panicked because he didn't want to win, and so he got He had a snowman on a par four in the eighteenth hole, and so he was able to go home. And then he went home and he went back to San Francisco and went back to work, and so like here we
talked about it. He did this in twenty fourteen. I'm talking to him in twenty sixteen and I said, so, how come I couldn't find any articles about this anywhere? And he goes, huh. I said, did you have have you ever talked to the press about this? And he went no, No. I got home, went back to work. I'm like, wait a minute, I'm breaking this story. This is the first time the story's being told. He goes, right, I'm like, whoa, okay, an exclusive for goals?
Yeah right, no, god, that's that's one of my favorites. That's wild. That's an amazing I like. And then just to go back to your normal life. Yeah, exactly, it's always fascinating to me.
Then there was the insurance salesman. Uh oh boy, yeah, no, it's not going to be never mind about that. I can't find it. An insurance salesman who was having a great round playing with some buddies and he's in his mid sixties, early sixties, and one of the guys he was playing with he didn't know the fourth he was new to him, said to him, doing a great day. He goes, yeah, I'm really playing well today. He goes, did you play in college? He goes, no, No, I
played baseball. He said, do you still have eligibility? And he said, actually, I think I do because when I played baseball in college, I got injured and never went back, so I guess I'd still be eligible. He goes, you want to be on our college golf team? What he says, I'm the coach of the community college here and we have a space open and would love to have you join the team. And he's like, okay, But what he didn't realize is he had to go to class right
to take classes. And then one time it's a community college, right, So one time he went to they were on a road trip and he knocked on the door of one of his teammates and said, Hey, I'm gonna go grab a beer. You want to come with me and goes, I'm not old enough to drink, and I got homework to do. I kind of study. He's like, oh god, what am I doing here? So those are two stories
that stand out as favorites. But then the multiple conversations with doctor Bob Jones about his grandfather have always been really special for me, and that's why we always show aired them on the on the week of the Masters. We're not doing it this year. He's I spoke to him recently. He had some heart issues, but he's better now and he's very interested in talking to you. Josh.
Oh great. Well, that's as we discussed the other day. I mean, I'm I'm I've been dying to talk to somebody who can talk to me about Bobby Jones because that is I watch I have you ever seen the videos of him, the movies he made for Disney. Yes, those are incredible, Like and you see.
How what a special man he was.
Oh yeah, and you just the beauty of how he moved, you know, swinging at golf club, you know, and you're just like wow, like look at you know, and you know the last great amateur, right, you know, the last right?
So all right, So anything else.
No, sir, I have other questions, but I think our time is probably all right.
Then listen, then this is what we're gonna do. We'll be back next week. This Friday will be let's see this Friday, is that gonna be another We all done with Tony Manzoni. I think we're all done with the Tony Manzoni episodes for twenty twenty six, which are always phenomenal. And yeah, yes, next week, oh, next week's episode on Mulligan's or this week's episode Mulligan's is going to be the time that I played in a pro am for
a web dot com event. Okay, lay, I played with Adam Long and I brought a recorder with me and I interviewed Adam during the round. So we're gonna get to hear Adam my conversation along who who. My favorite thing about Adam Long was his at the time, his Twitter handle, which was a long shot at along And
so yeah, we're gonna play that. And then the following week I'll be back with doctor Greg Steinberg from episode four hundred and ninety nine, which was golf is one hundred percent mental and one hundred percent physical, so very interesting. But next week you and I will be back and we'll have Jim Waldron on and Jim and I will start the conversation by going over my latest lesson with Jim. You'll get to hear one.
Of that I'm looking forward to. I remember my lessons with Jim. They were a trip.
He always starts with you got a great swing, you're doing great, but here's your problem. He builds me up really well, and then he goes, yeah, but you're just not making any progress at all. So I'm working very hard. So we're gonna get my golf lesson with Jim Waldron and then the second half of that conversation you'll take over and do your thing, and then from that point on, it's Golf Smart with Josh Carp. Well.
I can't wait and thank you again. This has been really fun and I'm really looking forward to doing this and to you remaining around as founder. As we discussed earlier that the ule Golf Smarter founder Fred Green, So thank you for having me on and thank you for giving me the opportunity to take over the show.
You very welcome