For members only.
Golf Smarter number three hundred and eighty one, published on April twenty three, twenty thirteen.
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To be honest, to preserve the integrity of the game, I totally understand limiting some of the distance measures.
Some of the things that.
We can do, we just don't do because it takes away the fun of the game of golf. If you have to hit it four hundred yards on a drive just to be competitive, then not many people are going to play golf. I like to go play golf now for fun, so I enjoy being outside, I enjoy the game, and I enjoy the people I'm with.
And to me, that's what this game's all about.
The industry as a whole is realizing that golf needs to be fun. If it's all about farther and bigger and more specialized, you're going to lose players, because we have a whole lot of other things we can do with our time. For golf to be successful and for it to be a long term physical activity that people enjoy in a fun game, it's got to be fun. And so there's going to be a lot more discussions about this anchoring. Putting is just the beginning of that rule.
And there's a lot of different thoughts out there, and some I think are very very valid.
Should the USGA roll back the distances on golf balls with William.
Carry This is Golf Smarter.
Welcome back to Golf Smarter for members only.
William, thank you very much.
I am really glad that.
You were able to have enough time to allow me to crash your offices here.
Now we can get into the really fun stuff now for the members right exactly.
Now, these are the people that are the diehard, dedicated who.
I love so much. I love so much.
Actually, now that I'm here, we're we're in Scottsdale, actually in Mace, Arizona where Arizona State University. We're in the shadow of the stadium right here, and you guys just moved into these new offices.
Well we're in Tempe, and so like I said, right next to there's Arizona State Campus. We're actually in one of the greenest buildings in Arizona. It's a phenomenal place for us.
And so how.
Much obviously the peel you know again we talked earlier about walking the talk. Absolutely, that's great, But was there Is it difficult to get into this building?
Was it? Because the funny thing is when we when we decided to move billions, it's the Tempee Transportation Center.
You can look it up online.
This was a major project of love by the city of Tempe when they put in the light rail system and when we were looking to find a headquarters for Dixon Golf once we'd outgrown the manufacturing facility area. Yeah, we went to the city and said, hey, we're looking for a place to go.
We went to a number of cities.
We went to Scottsdee, we went to Masa, we went to Tempe, and Tempe said, oh, we want an eco friendly tenant in this fabulous eco friendly building that we built, and they showed it to us and we're like, this is perfect for us, this is where we want to be. And so it was really a great match made in Tempe.
I guess but the city's been great.
So it's it's kind of a public private partnership that we've developed with them, and it's it's been fabulous.
Great, Well, let's get to this because I have a round of golf.
With a golf you need to go golf. Yeah, exactly, that's why we play this game in the first place.
Exactly, that's why we do these interviews so we can go play these games. Tell me about the manufacturing process of a golf ball. Did you guys have to hire your own designers or because you've been making golf balls for so many people, you knew what went You really didn't have to design anything you need.
We actually went through a lot of.
The goal was to make eco friendly golf ball, so we tried a lot of different items and things, and we looked into you know, biodegradable and to see the main thing we had to look at is it couldn't affect our performance, because we knew that if we made a ball that was eco friendly but only performed seventy five percent dead water, then it's a gimmick. No one cares, right, I mean, people will people will be eco friendly doing something else and not golfing. Yeah, I don't need to worry.
I want to score, you know, I want I want to hit the ball further. I want to score. And so our guiding principle on that was we wanted to be eco friendly, but it couldn't be it couldn't lack anything in performance. In fact, we wanted to make it perform better. But that was the first one. We had to make it so it wasn't cost prohibitive, and we had to make it so it wasn't so difficult to
be greener eco friendly when you used it. And so we went through a period of different materials and we worked with you know, companies like DuPont and things like that to really try to find the right materials, and we tried a number of things with golf balls. You know, you'd asked about materials inside of a golf ball. When I first got into the manufacturing process of golf balls, I was shocked at how labor intensive it was. The number of machines that a golf ball has to go
through to become a golf ball is pretty amazing. And you're I mean, you can probably go to see some of those how things are built exactly, but essentially the modern day golf ball is a rubber cored rubber.
A hard rubber core.
That rubber will have fillers in it, and that's where a lot of the bad stuff is because people put fillers in there for weight purposes. And so you have a rubber core and for the layman a plastic cover and whether that's you know, you're athane or serlin, that's
essentially what golf balls are now. Rubber core, maybe a plastic mantle, depending on how many layers you have, if you want five layers or ten layers, little layers, but essentially you're dealing with rubber, plastic and metal and metal for the weight, and that's that's.
The inner living golf the metal part.
We took out the metal and we we used, like you said, heavy salts that that provided the same weight salt is salts. Yeah, okay, absolutely, they provided the same weight, same consistency, but weren't harmful for the environment. And so and in doing that, we also realized we need to make something at the end. So that's the beginning, it's the end where we can recycle those and and do
that too. So when when a golf ball is recycled, it ends up being plastic and rubber, so we can grind that up and use it to do things like playground equipment or field turf, thing that plastic and rubber can be used for. And so that's the route we ended up going. But it took quite a while to come up with that because our options were unlimited on how we wanted to do it.
That's how we chose to do it.
Fascinating.
So when you mentioned earlier, the fire like a pro v is a multi piece ball?
Correct?
Okay, how many pieces?
And how does that compare the fire compared to the earth on the amount of pieces and what makes it different other than the name.
It's a three piece ball.
And so you've got a core, you've got a mantle, and you've got a earthing cover around the outside. And so if you look at golf ball construction in general, the thing that makes a golf ball fly really is it's bounce that you get and that's where the rubber
comes in and then you have a cover. If you just had a rubber golf ball, it would bounce really well, but it would tend to explode over time because rubber golf balls couldn't maintain just the hitting of the golf clubs, and you also have so the cover essentially keeps the rubber ball together and then you have the dimples that allow for aerodynamics and allows the ball to spin and
get lyft and drag and all that fun stuff. And so when you look at the construction of golf ball, golf balls used to be constructed, I mean you've had there's golf balls out there with metal course, pure metal course that have no bounce, and it's all about a different concept. You have golf balls that are wound and that was with you know, the old the old ballata
balls where it was just round rubber bands. The problem is they weren't consistent in their whining and so solid core golf ball technology is really what's changed over the over the last few decades to really make a consistent performing ball. And then the covers are more about the feel and the spin.
Okay, and that that is really the different creator that the consumer would recognize.
So if you look at the you know, so if you look at what.
The prov one did, it was it was pretty amazing that you know, over and I don't know the exact date, but you know, from the late nineties to the early two thousands, the prov one came on the market and just made a huge splash because the problem that you had prior to is you could choose feel, and you could choose peel, or you could choose distance. Couldn't really choose or. And and also with phil you could not get durability. So you could get distance and durability or feel,
which do you want. Well, the pro players they wanted feel absolutely, and so they didn't care about durability because they could replace their ball and they were getting paid to play those balls, so it didn't matter. But you go out and play a ballota the ball last one hole or one shot before, it's oblong, so you have no durability on that and you shred the cover and so and so what happened is you had a multipiece ball that gave you the durability of.
A Serlin.
So Serlin was how most play off balls were made before, and so you had to get it more. To get it a better feel, you'd have to make a softer serlin. So with the softer serlin, the softer got, the more it would get shredded with your iron shots. And so with that softer surlin, like I said, it's a question between feel and durability, and so what the multipiece balls gave us, they gave us the durability of a hard ball, yet the strong year thing cover that was also very
pliable and it could it could last. And so that really changed the golf world. And the probably one was one of the first that came out and really marketed that and just that's where they shot to the market because they provided a pro type ball that wouldn't destroy in two seconds.
And if we're lucky enough to.
Play around without losing a ball and then go out and play another, hopefully another round without losing eat how planned obsolescence is critical in golf ball manufacturing.
How long should a golf ball last?
And I guess it's different for you know, for every every ball that you manufacture, right, And I know it's like, oh, it depends on the player.
Well, well, the only way to really find out is if you stick it in a cannon and hit the balls in a golf ball cannon. And that's just a machine that whacks golf balls into a wall all day long. Every golf ball eventually will split apart and break. I read a stat the other day that I believe a golf ball lasts The average golf.
Ball lasts about three holes. Wow, till it's lost. Yeah, exactly.
So for the regular player, it's not ever an issue of how long the golf But it was so bad add previous to the late nineties that your golf balls would get out of sorts and you would shred it. So one good shot or one cart path, your ball's toast. Now golf balls are a lot stronger because of that technology, and so you can you can have the best of both worlds now. So that's more just on general golf ball construction. So we use those same those same principles
of golf ball construction. We just use some different materials and maintain the integrity of a high performance golf ball while replacing some of those materials that are less harmful or that are more harmful. Wow, you asked, you asked technical questions. I don't technical answers.
No, no, no, no, And I appreciate that. I appreciate it very much.
So because I'm not an engineer, right right, I have So do you have partners that are that?
Do you? And that's what a good manager does.
So do you have a differences in your dimple pattern or anything else that would also differentiate your ball against them.
All of our golf balls have different dimple patterns. If you look out there, a lot of the golf ball patents in the world are patented for their dimple patterns, and some you know, say, hey, they have this dimple pattern that allows it to fly further, or this dimple pattern that allows it to get less spin. Here's what you need on a golf ball. You need to need a form dimple pattern. And so I'm not so much a you know, some of the industry doesn't like me because most of the changes in your.
Golf ball are in your head and so curses I know.
But most golfers in your golf ball companies have been preaching for years that when they make it tweak to something, that it's new and improved, when in reality, what it means is I need to sell a new model next year, and so manufacturers. So there have been some significant changes in technology. The most significant in our in my industry experience, has been when we went to solid core technology and
multi multi layer balls. But there's a lot of good golf balls out there and there's not a big difference between them.
Let's let's be real, and price points are very competitive.
So price coints are competitive. So if you look at all the brands, so you really have.
A unique differentiator in the sense that it's not harmful and if you want to crying.
But it's going to perform as well or better than anything else in their category. And that's because the technology is out there that most balls in that category are fairly similar in their performance.
When you say uniform dimple pattern, does that mean that every dimple should be exactly the same because.
It has to have a uniform pattern.
So if it has a small, big, little, it's got to be a small, big, little all around in the same pattern. I mean, there's ball out there that has shallow dimples on one side and deep dimples on the other, and that it's non conforming because of that, and and they toubt that it that it will decrease your slice because of it actually true, but it's not conforming. And so that's the that's the thing that they fight, is they want people to play a non conforming ball. We
decided that we wanted the balls to conform. And so you know things that non conforming golf ball companies have done is they've made their dimple pattern not uniform, or they've made their balls heavier, or they've made their balls smaller, all of which affect the performance of golf balls. Because if you if you were able to make somebody makes a smaller golf ball in the past, but they're not legal to play with the actual rules. You can make a golf ball as big as you want and it
will conform. And so if you look at and we found this I think it was the top Flight XL three thousand, we were doing some printing and packaging on golf balls and they weren't fitting in the aftermarket packages that we were using, and we looked at them and compared them. They're actually a larger ball than your typical golf ball. I believe that's the I believe that's the brand. But you can look at that. Golf balls can actually
be as big as you want them to be. They just can't be any smaller than I think it's one point six ' eight inches or something like that. And so that's so most golf balls are one size because that's as small as they can legally make them. But I remember in high school there were these cheaterballs. I think they were what was it. It was Caman Golf or someone. They made balls that were a little bit
smaller so they could go further. You can make a golf ball, so if you make a smaller, heavier golf ball, it's going to.
Fly a lot further.
You just can't legally play with it.
And that sposed to me exactly.
So there's there's a big market out there.
I mean, you know, you look at golf, and golf as an industry is changing, and a lot of it is due to sports in general. I look, I look at sports nowadays. When I was growing up, we just played all the sports. We had fun time at it. We enjoyed it, and it was a fun thing. Now it seems like everything is just specialized. It's like you're going to be a golfer, so let's put you through this training regimen and you're going to beat balls since when you're five years old, and you're.
Going to become When we were growing up, it was exactly what it was. The Soviet gymnastics team.
Seriously, that's that's what almost every sport is like now.
And yeah, they led better school for these twelve.
Year olds exactly because they you know, I want to be a professional golfer and to do to actually succeed. Now you pretty much have to go. If you want to succeed at the top level, you pretty much have to be in that that system when you're young, simply because in any sport they're so specialized and you get so many hours of practice. Whereas when I grew up, I didn't have a chance because I just played everything and enjoyed it. And you know, but everyone wanted to
be a professional athlete. And so now as you get older and you get past the professional athlete stage, you know, I gave that up.
I gave up the dream of it. What five years ago.
I recently heard it never happened, But I gave the dream up five years ago.
So I have, like, I like to draw a line around my golf ball, right because I say, it gets me perpendicular when I'm teeing off and it allows me it gives me a line when I'm putting. So I use one of those go pro things that spins the ball real fast and I and I'm able to put the line on it. And supposedly it's a gyroscopic thing that gets the ball, so it's it's spinning, so it's on its core center? Right?
Is that app I mean? Is that is that legit? I mean do ball? Are golf balls basically lopsided or something that.
You know if you look at the injection molding process and so there's.
We've never talked about what does that mean.
So if you look at when you when so a standard two piece golf ball, that's a serling covered golf ball. The rubber, rubber core, plastic cover cover. So you take it's one process to make the core. Then you have to take that core, put it in an injection molding, and then you inject plastic around that core. And yes, if you cut a golf ball open there the equipment that's used is accurate to a point. But there are and this is where you can get in and I said,
most golf balls are fairly well made. There's manufacturing facilities that just make cheap product out there. And so if you look at some of that cheap product, if you cut a golf ball in half, you will see that the thickness of a of the plastic is thicker on one side and thinner on the other. That just means it was off center when that plastic was molded around it, and so you have that out there. For the most part,
it's pretty good. And that any name brand golf ball you're gonna get, you're gonna get pretty good.
So can it be off center? Yeah? Is it gonna matter to your game?
No, I'm telling you that, I'm sorry, I'm breaking all the rules that I've done and going home.
I'm not playing with you anymore.
Well, and you know, Tiger Woods might be able to figure that out if he hit a number of them.
Right in a row. He's sensitive enough to that.
You and I No, no, I mean, and that's that's the industry we live in. I won't destroy your industry anymore because I love it. But a lot of the marketing that we have is is has been fed to us by manufacturers of equipment.
So this article in the Wall Street Journal, Yes, it talks about how Arnold Palmer is a longtime supporter of rolling back the distance on golf balls, and that Tiger Woods and other players Jack Nicholas was in there. Jack Nicholas was in there, and they've said, yes, the same thing, and mainly because they're saying that new courses.
It's too expensive to build.
A new course, that they need an extra forty to sixty acres of land to not only to build it, to maintain it. And golf courses, you know, we've talked about this on the show. They're just getting longer and longer, and frankly, that's playing into the hands of these pros. I mean, because they're hitting the ball far that you will make your short game tougher. Right, So one of the things that they're talking about is is like changing the ball making it less and uh, we're having bifurcation
on forget on bifurcation and clubs bifrecational balls. That there should be a ball standard for the tour and then ball standard for everybody else.
Thoughts, a lot of thoughts.
Actually, as I just looked at the article, you look at the people that are mentioned in there that are for that, and notice that all great golfers, I believe they're all involved in golf course design and management. Now, so if you look at the there, uh between the lines, does he So if you look at their what they're thinking about, I mean, you have to consider what it
takes to build a golf course. So those are very valid thoughts when you look at the management and the design of a golf course because and and quite frankly, the land it takes. And you know, you make these things longer and longer because as a as a society, our athletes are more physically fit, our equipment's better, and yes,
we can hit it harder further now. And like you said, you know there's kids hitting at three hundred and fifty yards and it's crazy and a lot of it has to do with fitness, and a lot of it has to do with equipment improvements, and so rules can move it back and to be honest, to preserve the integt integrity of the game, I totally understand limiting some of the distance measures. Some of the things that we can do, we just don't do because it takes away the fun
of the game of golf. If you have to hit it four hundred yards on a drive just to be competitive, then not many people are going to play golf. And I like to go play golf now for fun. As I told you, I gave up my aspirations of being a professional athlete. And those of you that can't see me realize that I should have given those up at birth.
But you know, I was a kid, and so when I golf I golf purely, so I enjoy being outside, I enjoy the game, and I enjoy the people I'm with, And to me, that's what this game is all about. And the industry as a whole is realizing that golf needs to be fun.
If it's all about.
Farther and bigger and more specialized, you're going to lose players because we have a whole lot.
Of other things we can do with our time.
And for golf to be successful and for it to be a long term, not educational, but physical activity that people enjoy in a fun game, it's got to be fun. And so there's going to be a lot more discussions about this anchoring. Putting is just the beginning of that rule. And there's a lot of different thoughts out there, and some I think are very very valid because I want to go out and have fun and I'm not earning money when I golf.
Most people aren't.
Well, you know, you know, I understand the integrity of the game stuff, but aren't we trying to open the game to a new generation and to grow the game. And when I understand grow the game to mean is you're getting more players to start the game than to leave the game, and I think over the last couple of years that more people are leaving than starting. I would agree with that, and so it's difficult to find ways to make that work. It's why I think your
product speaks to the future of the game. I think that the game golf, which we've had on the show, I think that speaks to the future of the game. And I commend you guys for stepping out. And because the establishment, the USGA, they're all.
Very stuck in their ways.
They don't understand, you know, it seems like they don't move forward in progressing on expanding the game.
It's just like they want to keep their will.
Well, I think they understand.
I think that they're a little bit conflicted because the USGA deals with competitive golf and growing the game may not be about competitive golf and may be about recreational golf.
I think the PGA deals with competitive golf. I think the USGA is about.
And you think they're not tied together. Well, yeah, I've got a bridge to sell, Yeah, yeah.
Right, exactly. No, But to me, it's like.
The USGA is an advocate for the golf course, not the golfer.
In my mind, right, the.
Rules are so the golf course can beat you, and yet we want to go out there and beat the golf course.
Yeah we do, but they don't want.
They don't want to listen to it. Anyway.
That's an other discussion. I'll have that discussion with you off air.
Yeah, right, exactly.
So one of the things in this story that I found very interesting that John Paul wrote. He says, the USGA in two thousand and five requested and eventually received prototypes from eight or nine manufacturers and conducted tests with live players to see how balls would be that would reduce golf's environmental impact. They have declared, it says here the USGA declared a long term environmental sustainability to be one of.
Its top policy issues. Have they knocked on your door?
They have not.
Did they know you exist?
I don't know.
Should you not be part of this conversation?
As far as far as who are you talking about? Him? This?
Arthur or the USGA knows we exist. We're conforming golf ball. We send our balls to them for testing every year.
And you paid for your licensing, I'm sure absolutely Okay, so of course.
They know you exist.
You've had to be a licensee but if they're talking about long term sustainability, environmental impact, shouldn't you be a very high on their list? And shouldn't there other be companies. Shouldn't there be other companies knocking on your door going how do you do this? Because we want to get in that game?
Absolutely, there should, but they're not follow the money. Yeah, a lot of fun.
I'm no fun. It's the reality of my business. I recognize where we stand. There's a lot of great things that if they're not brought up by the right people, they don't become so great.
So do you think these are just press notes that the USGA is actually saying there?
Do you think that they're Golf in general has had a bad rap for being an environmental scourge on the land of whether they are or not, they've had a bad rap, and so they are looking they're looking to make golf more fun because they want to preserve their game. They're looking to make golf more environmentally friendly. A lot of it has to do with water usage on the course and land usage, but also in the equipment side, and so for self preservation, they have to look at
these issues how they look at them. Obviously, I can't control that, but they have to if they want to preserve the game and their place in the game. Otherwise they'll get passed on because these issues don't go away. And we want to be at the forefront. And so we thought of this a long time ago, and we're trying. We figure the best thing that we can do is lead the pack and be successful. If we can do that, then they will be knocking our door and want our input, and.
I hope they do.
I hope so too.
I think that would be awesome. It would be It would definitely be something that would get your name into you know, absolutely without having to pay.
Then maybe we'll pay a player or two exactly.
So what is the uh, let's let's let's wrap this up and look into the crystal ball. With the viability of the future for Dixon Golf very strong.
We're having great success working with charities. We've grown.
It took a few years we were toiling and deciding how to make a great product into a great business. We feel that we've figured that out, and so we've been growing tremendously over the last couple of years in general, and we'll.
Probably do.
Two or three times this year what we did last year, and we'll continue to grow and progress because once people get it and they like it, they stick with it, and so we're excited for the future, very excited.
On your website, you have an ambassador program. We have a you get involved so I can get my name on there.
We sponsor, Like I said, we sponsor a lot of charity golf tournaments and one of the things that we provide is is we sponsor one lucky player in some of those tournaments and they are able to become an amateur endorser, and so as an amateur endorser, they do get on our website as well as some other prizes they get and they can brag that they're and endorsed by a golf ball company. So it's kind of cool.
I've been bragging about this golf ball company for years and I don't.
See my name on the list.
I want to be.
I know some guys, you're too good reckon no.
Well, listen, William Carey, President Dixon goolf dixondolf dot com. We have the balls for sale on our website. If you have any questions, please click on the Hey Fred button and ask me. But the Spirit ball for women, the Wind for long drive and for long for distance hitters, we're focused.
On that, or they want more distances, that want more distance.
The earth ball for everybody, right, which is my ball of choice, and then the fire which is your high end, top of the marketplace. Probably don Cheatles's favorite ball.
Absolutely I have.
I've actually had a chance to play. Although I love the earth ball, I really like and play better when I play with the fire I can't afford.
It, but I really like. But you know, I can't afford a provy one.
I can't well, and when obviously when I when I go off, I golf with the fireball because but I know a guy and the reality is exactly the reality is my game is more suited to the earth ball.
That's why we all want to golf with the best.
You know, well, I wish you nothing but.
Long, long term six us and you know I'm cheer leading, not because my name is green, but it.
Kind of works out, it works well. I really appreciate it. We appreciate being on your podcast. Shout out to all the people that have supported this podcast for so long and it's growing. It's just very impressive that you've been able to build it and grow it so thanks for letting me be on the show.