Golf Smarter number three hundred and forty five, published on August seventh, twenty twelve. Welcome to golf Smarter Mulligans, your second chance to gain insight and advice from the best instructors featured on the Golf Smarter podcast. Great Golf Instruction Never gets old. Our interview library features hundreds of hours of game improvement conversations
like this that are no longer available in any podcast app. And one of the things we've done is taken fifteen eighteen handicapped players even sixes and eights with one of our top assist of pros who's a scratch guy, and he's a good player, and we've pled them play nine holes and they get to play Joe's drive and see what they shoot. The next nine hole Joe plays their ball in after they get it inside nine iron range, which for Joe is
about one point forty. What we find is they usually drop their score by one shot if any on the nine holes they got to play his drive, But on the nine holes that he played their ball in from nine iron range in he usually beats in by five to nine shots. So where do you think you should spend your practice time? If you get better inside nine ron rape. When you put a nine onn and less in your hand, I don't care what your handicap is. Your next shot should be a birdie button.
Now. If you're a twelve or fifteen eighteen handicapper, I mean give yourself thirty thirty five feet twenty five feet. If you're a low single digit, you ought to be hitting those shots on the average fifteen eighteen feet from the hole, but you ought to be knocking the flag down there once a while with those two and three and five foot birdies. Short game technology finally enters the twenty first century with Terry klebs Is golf Smarter sharing tips and insights
from golfers and golf professionals to help lower your score. It's worked for your host, Fred Green, Welcome back to Golf Smarter. Terry was glad to be here. Fred. It is great to have you. The last time you were on back in November, we introduced your new line of well, we don't want to home wedges just yet, but you score forty one sixty one, and the response from the golf Smarter community was very impressive. As far as I'm concerned, you guys got a lot of interest in the clubs
at that point, didn't you. We have, and not just from your community, but the other communities we've gotten involved in. You know, we're a small company. We're going up against the giants in the golf industry. We're going up against a lot of conventional wisdom, which you know you've known me for a long time. That's something I challenge, you know, willingly
and willfully. And what we've done with score forty one sixty one is is really challenge how golfers think about their whole set makeup, particularly the short end of the set. Well, you know, golf is seems to get stuck in I don't know. I don't want to use the word tradition there,
because that's not stuck tradition. You've got to honor tradition, but just old ways of thinking well and does And what's interesting, I just wrote an article the other day for a magazine called how modern technology has hurt your scoring?
And you know what we've seen in the last couple of decades with this emphasis on distance, and you know, the manufacturers have really pushed the envelope, you know, from drivers to the golf ball, to fitness techniques to irons and hybrids and fairways, and you know, all of these things are pushing you know, longer, longer, longer, hit it further, hit it further. Athletes are bigger, more finely tuned athletes playing golf than we ever
had before. And this, this all out, relentless pursuit of distance has changed the game so dramatically, not just at the highest level, you know, the tour players, but across the board down the rank and file amateurs. And my take on that, fred is that it has changed our set makeup and the way we play golf courses entirely. And that has been really
to a detriment of the average player. And I mean the recreational golfer who's out there trying to break eighty or ninety or even one hundred is not the tour player. He's not in the fitness trailers, he's not being you know, spend three days in a fitting van, but he's still hitting it further than ever before. And the reality is that's changed your whole set makeup.
And this is something whenever I get a chance to have a soapbox, so to speak, I talk to people about if you thought about your lineup, your team as I call it. You know those fourteen clubs in your bag that you have to score the golf course with. And what is the response to that. Well, when you sit people down and say think about this for a minute, the overwhelming response is, wow, that makes a lot of sense. Why has nobody ever done this before? So let me back
up and tell you kind of how this whole evolution. Please, I look back. I'm sixty years old. I started playing golf as a kid in the fifty and through the sixties, and you know, all irons were blades back then, and we learned how to hit. I mean we were admonished, and you know my generation of Kite and Crenshaw and Watkins and all those guys, we were admonished to learn how to hit the ball really solid and really good. Distance will come with size, as you get bigger, you'll
hit it further. But with the equipment, the persimmon woods and the blade irons, you had to learn how to hit the ball precisely. And we all learned how to score. We learned how to get the ball in the hole. And we had what I have called the round club mindset. And that is when we put an eight nine er pitch in our hand. And these were the clubs with the rounded top line, hence the round club.
We really could score the golf course with those clubs. Now, back then, the eight iron was in the low forty degrees of loft, the nine iron was mid to high forties, and the pitching wedge where the peak club pitching wedge was a forty nine to fifty to fifty one degree fifty two degree golf club. We pitched the ball. Our short range scoring club was our pitching wedge. We pitched the ball all with that golf club. And you
did it from multiple distances. It's not like you had, you know, your one hundred club, your seventy yard club, your ninety yard club. No, and you know, and we didn't hit the ball as far because the balls didn't go as far, and we were dealing with higher lofted golf clubs. But we scored the golf course with these round clubs. When you got into the four or five and six iron, the old blades were hard
to hit, man, trust me, they were tough. So when when the first kind of kicking the pants that we got, so to speak, was when the advent of the cavity back golf club, and it was a wonderful innovation that made four or five and six irons hard to hit, I mean easy to hit. The problem is is this concept we have of a
match set means they all look alike. And so while they changed the four, five, six, seven iron into these and three iron into these cavity back, perimeter weighted clubs that were much easier to get airborne, they were much more forgiving to move the contact around on the face. They made that eight nine and pitch cavity back, thin faced golf club too, and those
clubs are already our money clubs. Those were the clubs we knew how to hit straight, but they got dragged along because of this concept of a match set. So fast forward a decade or two, and now people are having trouble with these short clubs hitting them so high. Because the design was for a four iron or a six iron to hit the ball high. You already got a bunch of loft on that eight nine peak club. You don't need waiting to get it in the air. It's already got a bunch of loft
on it. And so the manufacturer started cranking the lost now, so that pitching wedge of when I was a child, of fifty to fifty one degrees became forty seven and eight and now forty five and six. There are at least two or three sets of irons on the market today that the peak club, which I don't call it pitching wedge anymore, is forty three forty two and a half degrees. This was my eight iron when I was a teenager. What do you call it? It's a peak club. I call it
peak club club. You could name all your clubs Susie, Joe, Bill, John. That's just a number. It's just a name. But you need clubs of high loft. So one of the comparisons I draw to people is Ben Hogan Byron Nelson, Sam snead to of me to marry fabulous era of shot makers. Even the moderntor players, if they would pay attention, would know these guys were awesome. Ben Hogan's book Power Golf that he published in nineteen forty nine, he listed his yardages, and he listed his regular
minimum and maximum with each club. His five iron regular yardage was one hundred and fifty five yards five iron, okay, his maximum was one seventy five. So the first question I would ask your listeners is look at your what you consider your regular iron yardage, and do you have an extra twenty yards in reserve with that golf club? Because Ben Hogan was, and I argue
this name made the best shot maker in the history of the game. He made a golf ball do what he wanted it to do with very inferior product equipment to what we have now. But he said, a regular five iron is one fifty five. I can hit it one seventy five if I need to. A minimum is one forty five. So if you think about that, now, his five iron for loft and length, what was about the same as a modern seven or eight. Okay, but ben Hogan hit it
one fifty five. It was also much heavier, and the shafts warn't his advanced and athletes were in his advance. But here's where I like to draw the comparison. So Ben Hogan, when he was inside one fifty he had a five iron, a six iron, a seven iron, an eight iron, a nine iron, a pitching wedge, and a sandwich. He had seven club options to navigate that last one hundred and fifty yards. The modern tour player and the modern amateur that's listening to this podcast right now. Look
at your bag, guys, how far do you hit? What do you hit? One hundred and fifty yards? A lot of guys are trying to hit nine iron that far, even eight iron. So you've got an eight, a nine, a pitch, sand wedge, lob wedge, maybe a gap. You got four maybe six gulubs that go under one fifty, under one fifty, under one fifty. Ben Hogan had seve the modern tour player only has three or four clubs in his bag to go under one fifty. Yeah, I mean, aren't they talking about you know, he's two hundred
and twenty yards away, he's pulling out a five iron. It's like, what what it is? And so here's my point. If ben Hogan had seven clubs to navigate the last one hundred and fifty yards of the each hole, and a modern tour player or you amateurs have four, you need to be twice the shot maker ben Hogan was, because you got half as many options as he had. And if you think about it that way, it's like that's kind of absurd. Then the other thing is just the geometry of
a golf club set. And if your golfers will go out and take golf balls in their laser out on the golf course, or they're gps. You will find that your gaps between clubs out at the long end of your set, between your three wood and your five wood, your five wood and your hybrid, and your hybrid and your second hybrid, your hybrid and your fore n, whatever you carry out there, you will find those gaps at eight
and nine yards. If you go to the short end of your set and go to your scoring clubs, those clubs over forty degrees a loft, you will have your gaps at fifteen and eighteen yards or more. Now, really that does makes sense, right, But that's the geometry of a golf club, and we've always built them this way. And again I'm a big challenger of conventional wisdom, but we've always built clubs a half inch difference between club,
four degrees of loft difference between clubs. But the fact is, at the short end of the set, those gaps widen four degrees and a half an inch makes gaps too wide. If you're at one seventy five and you have a four or five iron in your hand, or a six iron whatever. However, long. You are forty feet long and short from one seventy five. It is a great shot. Forty feet long and short from ninety stinks. I don't care if you're trying to play the PGA Tour, if
you're trying to break one hundred, you need to have distance control. Closer the closer you get to the green, you need to be able to dial it in. So what really has happened with modern technology is that it has compressed all of our clubs at the long end of the set. Because they only made the three iron two degrees stronger than ever, but they've made the nine iron six and seven degrees stronger than ever. Well, what's that doing
is compressing all your clubs towards the long end of the set. But if you have over three or four shots outside of five iron foreign range in a round of golf, you're playing the wrong tees. Man, You're not on the right tees. This is not a game that is supposed to be attacked with your fairy woods and hybrid's hole after hole after hole. That is not the way the game is played. If you find yourself that you can't reach par fours, you're hitting hybrids and fairy woods constantly move up a set of
tees. Guys, you'll enjoy the game a lot more. This game is designed to be a middle iron game with five or six seven holes giving you a short iron or wedge end three or four holes making you hit a long club in That's the way the game is supposed to be played at any level, and find the t's that let you play it that way. I mean, to me, I've felt like the perfect golf courses. When I get through, I've hit every club in my bag. To me, that's a
great piece of architecture. But in modern golf, golf courses have not kept up with technology. I mean, like in my little hometown, for example, I'm playing on a country club that was originally built in nineteen twenty fours remodeled in nineteen eighty, and we don't have any more room. We don't have room to link on the golf course. So it's sixty nine hundred some mid yards. In nineteen eighty when this course was renovated, we were playing
for simmon woods and mostly blade irons. Into that sixty nine hundred. It was quite the test. But now that's sixty nine hundred. There's a lot more short iron shots and reachable part fives than there was back then. But the municipal course in town plays at about sixty five hundred. That's long as they can make it. When I was living in this town in my twenties, which I was a whole lot stronger than I am now at sixty, I had a lot of five, six seven irons on that golf course.
Now at sixty that golf course is a driver wedge course because the course can't keep up with technology. So golfers are hitting more short clubs than they ever were before, and they're carrying less short clubs to do it with. I mean, there is just a disconnect there that makes any sense. Yeah,
it makes a lot of sense. And I you know, we've had so many conversations on golf Smarter about the marketing dollars that go into big club manufacturers, the giants as you refer to, and that actually that their marketing budgets are far greater than their R and D budgets. So you know, it's the I guess it's the concept of being able to make, you know, one set of clubs to fit a whole lot of people, right am I
am? I on the right track with that. Well, you know, I mean, for example, one of the major companies, who I won't name right now, introduce seven new iron models last year. Seven. Wow, how can you? I mean, how am I going to start through this as golf? I need? You know, if I like pure blades, make me a pure blade. If I like you know, if I say, I just want to make this as easy as possible, to make me a cavity back with a bunch offsets, I don't slice it and then
give me something in between. I mean seven nobody can do just at seventh. Well, here's this losing one hundred and twenty million dollars last year. Yeah, what I don't understand about coming out with seven new lines of clubs this year and seven next year. They're not changing there? Haven't they reached the limits of the rules they're allowed to reach as far as the USGA is concerned. Aren't there limits on what they can do to golf clubs? Yeah?
I mean you've got a coefficient restitution on drivers and fairways, you know, hollow clubs, and that's been pushed to the limit, you know, I mean the big companies. It used to be it was kind of like cars back in the sixties, if any of your readers are that old.
And you know, my parents went out bought my mom and a new car every three years, and it really wasn't much different than the one they had, but it would just that's how w's when you traded, and the car companies, you know, antiquated their models because they wanted to keep this buying pattern intact. The big golf companies have gotten into what I think is a death spiral, and they're introducing new models every six or eight, nine months,
ten months. And I'm sorry, guys, if you have bought a driver in the last four or five years, chances are there is no driver out there it's going to give you any more distance. Now, I don't make drivers. The big companies would tell you, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, there is. Well, you know, if you can give me eight or ten extra yards every nine months, I got to be
hitting at four fifty by now, I mean, but I can't. I'm not and and but but if you look at that, they're coming out with a new driver, radical new driver every eight or nine or ten months. Got five, six, eight, ten companies doing that. Yeah, but radical you mean like they painted the head of it white. Well yeah, but I mean they're trying to tell you it's radical because you know, they've they've got people trained that you know, hey, it's August. I'm not
going to buy last year's model because the new one will be out. However, last year model is two hundred dollars cheaper than it was. Exactly, maybe I want to do it. I mean, there is one company who will remain nameless, but you know, they might make drivers and other colors than black. But they actually they actually you can buy a twenty twelve model driver. I mean a trade retail store can buy brand new twenty twelve, twenty eleven, ten, and two thousand and nine product. They're still making
it. It's all in their pricing strategy interest, so they will throw a new model out there. Polaroid Camera did this for years. They would introduce the new Polaroid land Camera at you know, this premium price point, and they would skim all the early adapters. Then they would facelift it, drop the price twenty bucks, and skim the next round drop and then do it
again. And they do that three or four times. It's the same technology, but they keep dropping the price point to you know because that guy that says I'm not buying it at four ninety nine, but when it goes to two ninety nine, I'm all over it because my friends like their people that are slower to adapt, you know, and I'm not. I don't want to. I want I don't want to pick on the big companies too. If you read my blog, I only pick on about every other blog.
But you know, the thing is, is you spend money, you want real improvement in your game. I have to believe somewhere in my heart that when a golfer goes into a store to get a fix and I think about a new putter, new driver, pair shoes, Somewhere in the back of your head, you're going and I'm thinking, hoping that this is going to help me lure my handicap. Isn't that the ultimate motivation? I mean, you know some golfers, I'm not sure it really is, but somewhere in
the back of the mind, that's some kind of justification. And I'll drift into an aside here. People talk about people giving up the game of golf, and golf is in trouble. We're losing players and the most common thing, and I'm a drift off here is that's good people say. People say, yeah, that it takes too long and it costs too much money and it's too hard. Okay, they don't say it's too hard, but that's what it is. Well, I thought there was. I thought I actually
thought it was the three. The three things that they identified of why people are more people are leaving the game than starting is that it cost too much, it takes too long, and it's too hard. Well, they won't tell you it takes too hard unless you get into a deep focus group with them, because that's kind of self defeating. They tell you it cost too
much, it takes too much time. Well, you know what snow does, snow skiing, and it's a growing sport and it's a lot more expensive than golf because you can't you know, you've got and all the other things. What they mean is this takes too much time, it costs too much to have this little fun. But the guy that the guy that's gone from a twenty two to a nineteen, to a seventeen to a fourteen to a twelve, he's as he's not quitting either. He's playing more golf because this
is fun. If you're getting better. This is a fun game. And people that quit they say it takes too much time and it costs too much money, so they give up golf. So what do they do just lay around on the sofa for that five or six hours every Sunday and put their money in their bank account. No, they find another pastime that's more fun for that amount of time and money. It may be with their kids. It may be fishing and maybe boating, and maybe stamp collecting or building furniture.
But they're going to find something else to do with their time and money. Because they have the time and money, they're just going to reallocate it because they weren't getting a payoff, so they have to identify something and blame something but alone. But really what it is, it's an individual thing of people going, I'm just not getting better. This is not fun. This game is hard, and it's hard because we get a constant dose from TV
that if you could just hit another fifteen yards, that's the secret. And then I personally, I mean, like, I don't know if any of your listeners watch. I watched the Avon Masters of the LPGA tournament the other day. It was one of the best golf tournaments i've ever seen. These ladies were knocking flags down and making putts from everywhere. There were no meltdowns. There were just strictly great golf and it was fascinating. And I'm watching
ladies hit you know, eight irons from one to fifty five. They're in the mountains and I'm sitting there going, you know, this is what we average golfers can relate to. And then you go over here to PGA Tour and this guy's like, you know, he had a three thirty two off the tee and he's got you know, one seventy five left on a par on a five hundred and fifteen yard part four and he's hitting seven iron.
Really, I can't relate to that. You're you're little what I would related at the at the Open Championship, the British Open, I related to one shot and that's when Graham mcdall almost killed those people. Yeah when you hit that shot, that just like chilling all these people that hit the deck. Yeah, it's like that I related to and I was like, awesome,
I can do that. So you know, I kind of got off on ten, but that's a way, and it's just that if you are trying to break one hundred or trying to break ninety, trying to break eighty, trying to qualify for a PGA Tour event, if you will focus on getting good inside one fifty and and what that means is learning how to hit the ball one thirty two and one forty one and one twenty seven and one sixteen
and knowing that you can dial in that yardage. You know, there's a little bit of box on that scorecard, and nobody says, well, you know, John, you hit it in there with a pitching wedge from one forty two and I hit it in with an eight iron from one forty two, and we made the same score. But you win the hole because you hit a shorter club than I did. That isn't the way this game works.
What's the number? And the fact is if all of your listeners, and I would tell all of you guys, I don't care what skill level you played to tour player on down. If you will learn how to hit the ball shorter and more controlled with your scoring clubs and that's eight iron, nine iron on down, your handicap will go down because nobody cares if you hit an eight iron from one forty two or pitching wedge. The question is how close was it? Did you make it do what you wanted it to
do. And anybody can learn how to hit a good, controlled scoring shot with a high loft golf club because it's all about technique. These LPGA players, Natalie Goldbis was on fire. She just kept hitting it all over the hole. And I personally I don't like Natalie's golf swing that much. And a great lady and super looking gal and all that, but I don't like her gosween that much. But man, she was firing darts these flags. She was. She hit more shots close to the hole than I've seen any
male tour player hit in the last two years. I mean, she was lasering him in distance. Control was perfect, her directional control was perfect. And the fact is she hits it like a girl. Well that's my goal in life is to hit it like a girl. If that's what that means, you know, so, you know, but if you want to go away for someone, you hit it like a girl. Thank you, thank you, yeah, thank you very much. You know that girl made eight
birdies and shot sixty five to win that tournament. That I'd love to hit it like a girl like that. So you know, the point being is if you learn how to hit it controlled, and you learn how to control your short clubs, and you know, this is what you know. My shame was plug here. This is what score forty one sixty one is about.
I looked at the what the tools were given to try to do that with, and when the whole groove thing came about, and I started rethinking the old island wedges and trying new grooves, and somehow I got outside the box. I said, why do we even carry wedges? I mean Ben
Hogan. I'll go back and refer to him. Ben Hogan listed his maximum yardage with the sand wedge forty yards because it was a big flanged golf club that was designed to get the club ball out of the bunker, and Hogan knew it also was a very good pitching club for short pitch shots, but it was not a full swing golf club because the weight was so low in
the club it ballooned the ball in the air. And all of your listeners, I'll ask every one of you, for every one of you that can legitimately tell me that you hit your wedges too low, there is one point seven million of you that hit them too high, because they're designed to make the ball go in the air. And you already have fifty to fifty five degrees loft in this club. You don't also need all the weight low in the golf club. And so what we did is we looked at the weighting
of the scoring clubs. We threw away this whole term of wedges, and we looked at how can I give you pinpoint distance control so I can give you a vertically enhanced sweet spot. Because we all know when you hit a wedge shot high in the face, it doesn't go anywhere. Well, there's nothing up there. Look at your golf club, Look at the way it's designed. There's nothing up there. But when you hit one real thin, it goes forever because that's where all the mass is. Well, I mean,
we even that out in the score forty one sixty one line. The other thing is we looked at at matched irons. The industry designs six irons at twenty four to twenty seven to twenty eight degrees aloft. They test it, tweak it, make it right, and then they say, okay, make all the irons look like this. A six iron to a peak club is sixteen or seventeen degrees in a modern set, you know where you have. If you go sixteen or seventeen degrees the other way from a six iron,
you have a driver. Now, nobody ever said I love my six iron? Can you make a driver look like that? In fact, we've even found over the last ten or fifteen years that if you go down about eight or ten degrees lower than the six iron into the four and three iron range, this thing called a hybrid works a lot better because we can make that low lofted club easy to get up in the air by moving the way low and back. Conversely, when we go to the high lofted club,
already got the loft on the club. I've got forty or forty five, fifty to fifty five degrees a loft. It's going in the air, but the average golfer is struggling to keep it out of the clouds. He doesn't know how far it's going to go, because the harder his wings, the higher it goes, maybe the shorter it goes. Well. Conversely, if we move the weight up on that club and rethink how that club ought to be used and what you're after that's what score forty one sixty one does it.
It's a total reinvention of the short end of the set. It's an approach of making all of your money clubs your club's over forty be a match set within a set. I have to breathe now. I was wondering, like, what happened? Why'd you stop? Well, you know the thing is, is that what you want from your scoring clubs, your club's over forty degrees is you want three things. You want feel because these are the
clubs that you hit in between shots a lot. You don't really try to hit in between foreorns very much, but you're always hitting in between pitching wedges and nine irons and gap wedges. So you got to have feel. That's part of the shaft, that's part of the head metallurgy. We've done two great things there. The second thing you want is distance control. Like I said, thirty feet longer short from one seventy is great. Thirty feet longer
short from ninety is horrible. Well, I remember the last time that you and I were together on this show back in November. We use the title of give me ten feet closer over ten yards farther any day of the week. And I've repeated that so many times that I can't tell you. When I say that to people, their face it says if I kicked him in the head with something. They've never thought of it. It's like, oh, yeah, yeah, you're right. We asked, We offered one time,
and this is we have this thing called the Score Project. We kick around and one of the things we've done is taken fifteen eighteen handicapped players, twelve pandicap players out on the golf course even sixes and eights with one of our top assistant pros who's a scratch guy. I mean, he's a good player, and we've taken them out with Joe and we've let them play nine
holes and they get to play Joe's drive and see what they shoot. The next nine hole, Joe plays their ball in after they get it inside nine iron range, which for Joe is about one point okay, no matter how many it takes them to get there. What we find is they usually drop their score by one shot on the nine if any. On the nine holes they got to play his drive, But on the nine holes that he played their ball in from nine iron range in he usually beats them by five to
nine shots. So where do you think you should spend your practice time? If you get better inside nine iron range, If you get better, I don't care whether that's one hundred and five yards or on hundred and forty five yards. If you get better inside nine iron range, when you put a nine ron un less in your hand, I don't care what your handicap is. Your next your next shot should be a verty, but it maybe if you're a twelve or fifteen eighteen handicapper, I mean give yourself thirty thirty five
feet twenty five feet. If you're a low single digit you ought to be hitting those shots on the average fifteen eighteen feet from the hole, but you ought to be knocking the flag down every once a while with those two and three and five foot birdies. And if anybody can learn to do that, it is a one hundred percent technique, zero percent strength. I mean it
is. I mean, I've got to you know. I mean you look at in look at the ladies that play professional golf, watch them drive tax I mean, I guarantee you the men on tour are If there's such a thing as a body strength index, the men are three to five times stronger than the ladies are more, and yet the ladies can hit it just as good, you know, and I'm not sure they're not better. To be honest with your inside one fifty now, I mean, I'm not going to
denigrate the men's game, but you know, these ladies are good. And it's not about strength. It's about technique and anybody can learn it. Not that you're going to be an LPGA Tour player, but I would tell you the average better amateur at every club cannot hold his own with an LPGA Tour player on a sixty five to sixty eight hundred yard golf court. He'll get
drummed every time. I've always tried to keep in my head of turning three shots into two inside of one hundred and fifty yards exactly, but I don't succeed. But I gotta tell you since and full disclosure here, I've been playing Score the Score golf. It's forty one sixty one wedges now since it's getting close to a year, I mean probably since I was September October of last year, and I've fallen in love with these clays. You know.
It's like I get excited when I can pull them out because it's like I'm feeling and this is something I've always focused on and wanted to achieve. His confidence. I just feel confident that I'm going to hit the distance I want to hit. I'm going to get the ball to stick where it hits or maybe even get a little backspin. It's like, well, who I did it? You know, because it took me a long time to figure out how in the hell you hit backspin? Let alone do it. I still
them figured out to drop, but I don't really care. But it's it's just a confidence factor that I have using these wedges that have made such a huge difference in the way I approach my shots. Well, and we hear that all the time. And if you spend a little time and you get confident with these clubs, you know, and I'm going back to the modern technology. So you have a very thin faced Losen or Gravity nine and pe club in your bag, and then you have a break to these aftermarket wedges.
And let's be honest, guys, the wedges that are on the rack this year from Didlers, from Cleveland, from every other company looked just like they did forty years ago. What other category will that sell in your shoes, don't look like the balls aren't like the teas. Even I used to tell people, you have two things in your bag with forty year old technology. That's your your wedges and your golf tees. And I can't say that about teas anymore. And they got all this technology now, thank god it
closed. Don't look alike. But the point being is that is that wedges are just that they are wedges. They are a throwback to days of persimmon woods. They're not any different. And right in the middle of money range, you have your nine and your p that looked like a six iron, that were designed to work like a six iron. They're not precision shot making
instruments. Then you take a complete skip, totally different shaft, totally different flex, totally different head design, totally different everything to your gap wedge or your sand or whatever you carry. Right in the middle of money range, you have this massive disconnect between the type of club you're playing, and that just I mean, there's no logical reason why you would do that, except
that's the way it's always been done. Well woods. Roy's made out of persimmon two And when's the last time he saw somebody with one of those yeah, you know, golfpit. Yeah, exactly. Golfspikes were always metal, and the last time you saw somebody wearing those other than the PGA, What
is the last time you were allowed to wear metal? Well, you have to be on the PGA tour and then you can do it right, exactly exactly what I have to be my nostalgia is I do miss that that idea of coming out of the locker room with your metal spikes and walking across the sidewalk kind of got your game face on it. Well, this sound of that, it's like the sound of it's like I got my game bas Yeah.
Yeah. Anybody who's ever put on spikes for baseball or played a little leg or something to get you to that sounded on the gravel, It's awesome. Hey, listen, Terry, we have kind of reached our thirty minute limit a little bit past it, but that's okay. So there's a couple of things I want to bring up. First of all, is can you
and I continue this conversation on a member's only episode next? Oh? Absolutely, because I I you know, obviously you not only have history knowledge, but you have an opinion and at least one at least one, and so I want to really focus in on on scoring, on how to improve our scoring with these any clubs as you like to refer them as, I'm not going to call them wedges anymore. So we can we do a member's only
episode next time. Let's do that. We'll get into the details of the secrets of the tour players, of how they build that technique I'm talking about. Okay, good. You know we want to help people play. I mean, that's the driving force behind everything I do is if there's a better way to get the ball in the hole, I want to come up with it. I want to help people get it and score. Forty one to
sixty one is something I'm extremely proud of. It's a culmination of thirty year career in designing golf clubs, and I just I believe we've pulled out all the stops here and kind of help anybody get better. We've got Champions Tour players playing them. We've got one hundred shooters playing them. We've got ladies we've got on the LPGA Tour, We've got Champions Tour guys, we've got
developmental Tour players. You know, Stephanie Louden is an official ambassador for US on the LPGA tour, and she kind of comes up to that whole hit it like a girl. Thank Stephanie has got a great short game and so we and we actually have a set in play at the Pine Valley Club Championship which starts this weekend, so we know we got at least one set in play there, so we'll pull for that guy too. Well. Unfortunately it's last weekend. If you listen to it as soon as we published this show,
and if you listen later on that's okay too. So that's it for today. And Terry, I'm excited about coming back and really focusing in on short game scoring. Yeah me too. I'm looking forward to the questions that your listeners send in. It's always fun answering specific questions from real people. Terry, thanks a lot, buddy, Thank you, Brett. I appreciate it. Look forward to the next time.