Putting: Everything You Know is WRONG! with PuttingZone's Founder Geoff Mangum - podcast episode cover

Putting: Everything You Know is WRONG! with PuttingZone's Founder Geoff Mangum

Aug 20, 20241 hr 14 minSeason 19Ep. 961
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Episode description

GS961: Summary
After too long of a break, Geoff Mangum, renowned putting instructor, returns to challenge what we know and then tell us that we're wrong! Always thought provoking and always controversial, Geoff discusses the changes in the putting world and the importance of skill development in putting. He also delves into the science behind putting, including brain science, perception, movement, and the physics of putting. Leave it to Geoff to challenge the marketing hype around putter equipment and emphasizes the importance of grip pressure and technique in improving putting performance. Mangum also shares his views on distance control and targeting in golf.
Takeaways
  • The putting world has changed, and skill development is crucial for improving putting performance.
  • Understanding brain science, perception, movement, and physics is essential for improving putting technique.
  • Marketing hype around putter equipment should be approached with caution
  • Grip pressure plays a significant role in putting performance. 
  • Criticism of the USGA's rules and regulations
  • The significance of distance control and targeting in golf
  • The role of perception and skill in the game

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Transcript

Speaker 1

H right. This is Bob Anklin from Rosemont, Minnesota, and I play at the Emerald Greens golf Course. This is a Golf Smarter number nine hundred and sixty one. You need a new golf organization called real Golf that dispenses with the USGA. Solid, simple, stupid little rules plaid as it lays, be goes out of bound, put it back in bound, don't go back to the t. You can grind your club and the hazard. Who cares? Those are the rules so that amateurs will actually be able to

follow them. Got to have a lot of degrees and a master in taxes to follow the USGA rules. They're stupid. It's like only twelve rules. Originally, the USGA is all over the map. They don't even know what skill is. The yards books were originally illegal because they're not the golfer's eye and senses telling him about the conditions of the golf course and how to play the shot. Anything that's other than that, like a book, a green map, a yards book or illegal. The USGA's obligation is to

protect the game of skill from cheating. They don't want fake scores, they want a real handicap. According to the rules of skill. Then they made that goofy exception if it's traditionally accepted. The first case that they considered was the yards books, and they said traditionally accepted. We're sorry, go ahead, you know what. The second one was plumb bobbing.

They considered the case of plumbbobbing. They said, so many golfers cheat with it, accepted that wasn't even cheating because plumbbobbing doesn't work.

Speaker 2

Everything you know is wrong. According to Jeff Mangum of the Pudding Zone.

Speaker 1

This is Golf's Murder, sharing stories, tips and insights from Greek golf minds to help you lower your score and raise your golf IQ.

Speaker 2

There's your host, Fred Green. Welcome back to the Golf Smarter podcast.

Speaker 1

Jeff, Hi, Fred, how you doing. Long time no see.

Speaker 2

Long time no see.

Speaker 3

You know, I was looking back on my spreadsheet here to try to figure out how long it's been since you were on the podcast. And so this is episode nine sixty one. Last time I see it was an episode number six hundred and two in twenty seventeen, in like almost exactly a year, So seven years since we've talked to each other.

Speaker 2

Yeah, right, but more importantly, the first episode you were on was episode thirty seven in August of two thousand and six.

Speaker 1

Wow.

Speaker 3

So it's uh, we've been talking to each other for a long time, but we haven't talked to each other in a long time. And it is great to have you back on because the putting world has changed, and probably from your perspective, it hasn't because people still suck at putting.

Speaker 1

I'm not going to say anything like everybody sucks.

Speaker 2

Okay, how would you characterize it?

Speaker 1

But it could definitely be better.

Speaker 2

Yeah, they can be better. They can be better.

Speaker 3

So you've been running the putting zone for probably longer than I've been doing this podcast, and since two.

Speaker 1

Thousand, twenty four years.

Speaker 2

Wow. Congratulations, and you have certified teachers all over the world to become putting zone instructors.

Speaker 1

I've trained seven hundred and fifty golf coaches, most of which were sixteen hours two days training each.

Speaker 2

Wow. Wow.

Speaker 1

This got back from Korea where we did classes, two day classes with thirty and then we did two classes sixty. We did four days of training, and then we did they're players and individuals.

Speaker 2

And do you have a language barrier?

Speaker 3

Do you have somebody who's there as a translator for you or your host speak.

Speaker 1

English in Korea, English is very hard for Koreans. Yeah, and they're pretty conscious, self conscious about not being able to speak English. So I had the good fortune of a Korean that was born on Saipan, which is now part of America, and he grew up speaking English very fluently. He's the one that was my host and he translated and that worked.

Speaker 3

Great, awesome, awesome. And what about in Japan? Have you done Japan as well?

Speaker 1

Japan? I have a friend that's working on that right now.

Speaker 3

Oh, it's amazing, but talk about you know, they definitely if they can't speak English, you know perfectly, they're not going to do it. And they're all trained as kids. I mean the kids speak English, it's amazing, but adults they don't use it as much. They don't feel comfortable, so they just don't do it right.

Speaker 2

It's incredible.

Speaker 1

Yeah, if if if a person has difficulty with English, they laugh and then they go away. They do know, and they don't enjoy the feelings of not being perfect. They are perfect monsters in Korea. Boy, they love perfect, still love perfect. They love perfect.

Speaker 3

And when they talk about golf, when do you learn At what point do you accept the fact that there is no perfect in golf.

Speaker 1

I don't never think there's perfect in anything human. And they kind of have to admit that they're not perfect, even though they've been working harder than anybody, it's probably not in the cards. And so you have to be You have to disconnect their their sense of themselves from their Korean context of family and friends. They don't want to admit around family and friends that they're not either perfect or just about getting there. But if you did much pressure and you just go, hey, let's go eat

some kimchi, you know you can. You can make good emotional connections. In Korea, it's a little bit nearer. You've got to get through, and I'm the clown that can get through. I have a name in Korea. My name in Korea is Godzilla?

Speaker 2

Really? Godzilla?

Speaker 1

Godzilla?

Speaker 2

Why is that?

Speaker 1

Detroyer of Tokyo. Actually Godzilla was kind of an earth god protecting the earth, and it's a little bit of a mystery on why he had it in for Japan. That's not exactly clear. But the movie Godzilla was originally written by North Korean. He later immigrated got to the South, and I think he ended up in the United States somewhere. But if you Wikipedia Godzilla, you can read that little story. Amazing. Yes, it's fun.

Speaker 3

Well, I hope you don't mind if I don't call you Godzilla.

Speaker 1

Oh well, please call me Godzilla. No, it was I just told him. You know, you're not supposed to be egotistical out loud in Korea unless you're like over forty five year old male. And then they got kind of very macho. Oh wow, young people. They're not supposed to tell people I'm the great, right, but I'm the greatest putting instructor in the history of the game. And I say that to the Korean class of thirty and they look at me for a second and I go, that's

because I'm Godzilla, and they bust out laughing. So we get into a different mental mode for learning. We get into the childlike mode for learning.

Speaker 2

It's amazing.

Speaker 1

Yeah, we have fun, we have great time.

Speaker 2

I love that story. I love that story.

Speaker 3

Tell me about the process of what the putting zone instruction is to become certified.

Speaker 1

Well, there are four skills and that was two words, not one four or reading, aiming, stroke for line and stroke for ball, pace or touch. The second word was skill. Okay, the putting zone has a definition of skill that is actually correct, but golf people don't know it. So let me define what a skill is. A skill is not you do it better than most. That's the definition of golf. These guys are good, they're better than you. And then they really like the phrase, these are the best golfers

in the world. No, they're not. Okay. So, for example, Scottish Scheffler can't putt. He's terrible right now, He's barely average, but he you know, he wins like crazy. Yeah, all right, but for putting, he's not skillful. He's not even better than half of the two players. So for him to say he's the best putter in the world, that that's not flying. And for him to say that there's nobody on tour better than him, that doesn't fly. And so the whole idea of tour players are better than country

club fat diabetic males. That's not a good definition of skill, all right, So what is the definition of skill? You know, how to operate the body to do the task of the skill, whether it's reading the putt. How do you use your body to read a putt, or if it's aiming, how do you use your body to aim the putterface correctly? Or if it's stroke for lyne, how do you use

your body to make it go where you aim? Or for touch, how do you use your body to organize the velocity of impact so that the physics of your putt matches the physics required of the world. I have thirty five years of that reading brain science to answer those questions. And that's daily reading, every day, heavy duty neuroscience, not blogny, not watered down psychology today versions the hot off the griddle studies with all the complicated statistical analysis

of data, blah blah blah. And I know more about the brain science of putting than anyone who's ever lived, no question about it. I never even met somebody in golf that thinks they know much about it, other than one particular guy, and he doesn't know how to apply brain science. To apply brain science, you have to have the big picture of how the brain works. And don't get lost in the mlution. You're not a science just

working at Harvard to cure Alzheimer's disease. You want to know how you reach for a cup of coffee, how you throw a pair of socks in a bucket, how you put a basketball in the hoop, and how you put a ball into a hawk. Okay, that's big picture stuff, and I'm the guy, the only one ever, and it probably won't be anybody else ever, because there's a lot of work. Thirty five years. I have probably three hundred

brain books in my house. There are five hundred that I've read, and then there's about two thousand neuroscience articles that I've digested and stored in my computer and read occasionally and write articles about it. I write two articles a day for the past forty two months, every day them every week forty two months is one thousand, two hundred and so many days sixty one, two hundred and sixty days in a row. Two articles a day, maybe one out of eight of those of brain science articles.

Right now, the count of how many articles I've written on that, on putting science is two thousand, five hundred and sixty five articles in forty two months. That doesn't count the book I wrote, the other formal articles I hand out like candy, or the approximately fifty to one hundred videos that I've made. This is daily article writing. I wrote two articles today on on how vision works when you imagine things and whether that's good or bad? Stuff like that, How that applies to reading a putt?

Speaker 2

Why the obsession with the brain science and putting?

Speaker 1

When I started all this research back in nineteen ninety, which was ten years of research before I even started teaching. Who does that I do ten years? I don't know anybody who's done or even up in their mouth in charts fifty bucks. But anyway, I did ten years and five of that was literary or literature research on what has already been said and written in golf about pain. And that's a five year project just to find it

and then go get it and read it. And what you find out is that before you start reading all that mass of information to fill your brain with what's good and bad, you do a logger thing. You clarify why you are reading anything, any book or art. And to do that you have to invite a martian down to watch a golfer putt on the green and then

ask him what are the skills? And the martian says, he reads the putt, he aims the start line of the read, he puts straight, and he puts a pace control or else he doesn't do as good as he misses.

But those are four skills reading, aiming, stroking touch. Right now, with that templating mind, then you sort all the literature into big buckets, one big fifty five gallon barrel for reading, aiming, stroking touch, and then you turn the lights on, get your coffee, start reading one bucket at a time, and then you get the shock, the big shock. The reading bucket has one book down at the bottom, and that's it. There's a guy in ha Templeton, the Air Force, Lieutenant

colonel road Book. He spent a year or two. He commandeered the whole Air Force golf course and he stretched strings across the top of every green, and then he measured down and he made a topographic map with maybe ten inch squares. Then he did scientific experiments, and then he did engineering experiments, and then he did physics research on how ball's curve on slope. And then he made a set of charts. If you're standing here, there's a fall line, or what he called the zero brake line.

And if you're standing if that imagined to be six twelve, you're standing at seven o'clock. That's going to break left to right, and he'll tell you how many inches above the center of the cup to aim on the zero break line. He wrote a whole series of charts about that. That's the only book in the whole history of golf ever written about how to read the putt. And it's only Matt all right now. Doctor Gary Wyron wrote the PGA Manual of Instruction nineteen eighty six, and he's an

educational psychologist, so he has a little academic background. He restarts reading before he wrote the manual, and he said, whoop, nothing here but this guy from Texas, and he admitted that he didn't know anything about putting, so he quoted the guy in the manual. And that's all he did for reading putts in the manual. I've met tens of thousands of PJ of America people that took the train,

and not a single one of them remembers the name Templeton. Wow, Okay, Now I set up a guy teaching petting using Templeton's system. His name is Michael Shy. He's from California and he was the Chambeau's coach for a long time. All right, So that's one bucket there ain't nothing in there. The aiming bucket has a little bit about get behind the ball and use your dominant eye and get behind the ball and aim the line on the ball, and very

little else. Well, there's nothing about how to stand beside the ball and look at a putterface and say, where does that putterface? Ninety degree aim? Go and point at a grass blade twenty three feet away. There was a trick in the fifth and the sixties that nobody today remembers, but it accidentally got it kind of right. But I'm the originator of aiming beside the ball, and I'm the only person that even teaches it. All right, So that's the aim bucket.

Speaker 2

Wait wait, wait, wait, wait, aim beside the ball.

Speaker 1

Yeah, you look at a butterface. You got to know whether you pointed it correctly at the target. Okay, I'm another one does how to teach it. I checked nobody else. I created that. Okay, Now for the stroke, everybody's got an opinion, just like everybody's got a mouth or another anatomy. Yeah right, right, another forty thousands on the stroke. All right, So forget that bucket. There's a bunch of snakes crawling out of the bucket, toutch bucket. Nothing, there's a sticky

way down to the bottom of the bucket. From twenty and ten the ABC broadcast of the British Open from Paul Aisinger watching Tiger Woods. The sticky says, look at that tiger's touch. You can't teach that. You can't learn that, you have to be born with that. That's the only thing in the whole touch bucket history of golf I checked, all right. Now, when you do that five years of research and you organize all the literature and then you read it one bucket at a time, you look at

golf teachers as kind of dumb. That was from eighteen thirty to two thousand and eight, so that's like seventy one hundred and seventy eight years of research nothing all right now. At that point I sat about saying, I'm still going to learn how to do it, and I'm going to look in scientists scientifically. What would I need to know to figure out how to read a putt, how to aim a putter, how to stroke it where you aim, and how to do pace control and everything

that I kept thinking about. The words were perception and movement, And then I said Okay, well, let's study perception and movement in the context of putty. So what you end up with is there's an assortment of science that you need to apply to the skills of putty or the tasks of putting. One is brain science and one is physics. Then you have to understand something about greens and grass, and then you have to understand something about human anatomy, perception, brains, physics, movement,

all those and I got busy. I'm a busy little obsession conupposed to be, and I've been studying those sciences. I already had fifty years of Okay, now I've got fifteen thousand books in my house. If you want to challenge me on that, I got fifteen thousand books in my house collecting death, and I got twenty this week. Yes, all right, But when you apply these sciences, you end up saying, man, God, people really need to learn something.

For example, how do you read a putt? If you ask any professional player on the PGA tour, tell the thirteen year old kid what to do when you read a putt, they got nothing. Nothing. I just watched the big video by Scottie Scheffler yesterday on Golf Digest where he's he and his coach Rick Smith and Dallas are talking about how to read it put and it basically was stand here, stand there, feel something and steady green.

The USGA agronomists have been warning golfers that they got reddy grain in almost everywhere except deepest, darkest South Florida. Since nineteen eighty eighty one, there was a sea change

in golf for greens. Different way to build greens so they have healthier grass, healthier root systems, different ways to mow them and take care of them, birdy cutting, top dressing and criss cross mowing and all that, and better equipment for mowing the Toro triplex mowers, better care of greens, and that system of lower mowing got it below the

height where grain actually matters. And the system of crisscross cutting and verty cutting and top dressing got rid of grain also, so grain just doesn't have a chance to matter today. And the USGA agronomists have been worning golfers, especially Johnny Miller on NBC, always yacking about the grain. These turplo pros actually believe in the grain on the green. Now it's possible to scrape it, but it's not big

enough to matter. Now. What confused them, I think is that the fringes are sharply downhill and longer grass, and they have fringe and if you chip into the grain from the fringe, you killy it. And then they get on the green and they confuse that fringe grain with believing in the grain on the green, when it's really just faster green speed downhill, slow green uphill. So I watched Scottie Scheffler and Rick smith yacking about the grain, and I'm going that ain't how you read to put.

Then you close, you see where the fall line is. You appreciate the steepness of the slope, You appreciate the green speed. And these words are appreciate. That's what brains do. They don't look for numbers, and they appreciate that. And then if you put the bass speed in your mind, your brain actually predicts the curve, literally predicts the very

curve that matches the actual physics. Soanes predict physics. All right, now, let me speed this up to you to put a nail right in your forehead right there.

Speaker 2

Don't heard me?

Speaker 1

Why animals have brains to predict the world's physics because animals move and plants don't move. Animals have a brain and plants don't have a brain. And the main purpose that animals have brains is moving is dangerous, and they have to match the physics of their limb motions to the actual requirements of the external physics of the world or they're dead. Okay, now that's the sentence that nobody

at Harvard can actually say. They don't get that. The top neuroscience guy for the brain sense of movement is a French guy named Elaine Beethols. And I've read his books. I'm upseessing compulsive, and I'm way out there. He does not get what I just told you. It's not in his book. I know what's in the brain, and I know why, and I know how it got there, and I know what it means for paying brains prevent you from running your hogwart little face into the wall of

hogwart station. That's magical because nobody can actually do it, because their brain will stop you. You can't do it. And so for touch control, if you imagine putting past the little hole down downhill on the green is running your faces into a wall, and you imagine pain and injury. Your brain will give you the tank of gas that

will not go past it, and then you can't. You load the tanky gas with one tempo and you spend it, and that vigor of the load is preloaded into the muscle that makes your backswing so that it does not go too big. No such thing as too big of a backstroke when you're athletic.

Speaker 2

I don't you know. I've been told I overthink it.

Speaker 3

The only equipment you've talked about so far in putting.

Speaker 2

Is lawnmowers.

Speaker 3

You've not seen anything else about the equipment that we use.

Speaker 1

That's because golf people are really wacky nuts by the marketing of putters. Putters don't matter if it's a flat slab at the end of a stick. What's different from this one to that one? Well, maybe he'll toe waiting, maybe big MLI, but big boys. When you rip a putter with sufficient firmness of your hand, all the little

physics is completely destroyed. Now it's up to you square straight online swing and it takes a grip pressure of three on scale of one to ten to completely erase all the little magic of the tiny physics of Scottie Cameron putters and lab putters and or whatever you want to name. None of it matters.

Speaker 3

Okay, wait, wait, wait, you brought up lab the liight angle balance putters. Now I've become a big fan. I'm kind of a lab rat.

Speaker 2

Is that?

Speaker 3

Are you saying that? That's also marketing hype as well as the heel balance, toe balanced all that.

Speaker 1

Yes, okay, There's two things you need to know about lab marketing. One is the way they harness it and make it swing is not real. You don't ever have zero grip pressure on the putter, okay, so if you actually grip it and swing it, it won't do with that frame they use. Shows you. Second, if you align the center of gravity of the putter head with the shaft, then you have eliminated certain factors of torque and imbalance. But that's not the only reason that putters do curves

and arcs and come out of the plane. There is torque towards your feet, right, they are addressing head torque where there's not a fat person sitting on the toe and a skinny person sitting on the hill. That's torque of the head. I'm talking about the whole torque because the on the light angle when you get it off the ground, it's going to fall to your feet into

vertical equilibrium in gravity. That torque, right when you stick your arms out away from your body so that your hands are not neutral in gravity, that torque is fifteen times more powerful than the putter tork. All right, So they don't know anything about that. I have tried to tell them, but as soon as I say that their statements are not perfect, they go stick their fingers in there and hate you, hate you, hate you. All right.

I'm seriously, you know, I can't help it. I'm just trying to help these people not mess up golfers by claiming stuff that's scientifically goofy. They don't even know about the torque of putters that fall towards your feet. If you make a backstroke and your grip is too weak, the backstroke will go kind of straight, because that's anatomical

that you you you just contracted a peck muscle. Your arms can go very straight across your body, but the torque of the droop towards your feet will combine with going straight back, and it makes it look like a curve. If you have the one grip pressure instead of a three one has a big curve to the inside. If you have a two grip pressure, it is half of that. If you have a three grip pressure, it doesn't ark any at all. That's the golfer's grip pressure, not anybody

designing the putter. And so I've explained all this to L. A. B. And they just stick their fingers in the ears and the start houlering, hate you, hate you hate.

Speaker 2

You Are you saying that because it's a center shafted putter, center shafting, you're you're removing the torque.

Speaker 1

Center shafting and the center of gravity of the putter. Okay, you take a putterhead shape, there are three dimensions on

where the center of the gravity is depending on the shape. Okay, a flange putter, the center of gravity is probably halfway from heel to toe, halfway from bottom to top, and halfway from front to back because it's a little rectangle and a cube sort of a three dimensional rectangle lab has a bigger back, all right, So the center of gravity is not near the shaft, is one or so inches away from the shaft to the back, and a lot of putters do not center that center of gravity

behind the shaft. All right. Now, Usually if you have a center shafted puddle and you lift it off the ground and the center of gravity is back to the right, that putters. Since you lift it so off the ground, it will twist to the right. That's they've done something that reduces that. But if you grip it so that you take care of the droop torque from the li angle, that grip overwhelms whatever they did with the with the

head check design not relevant. What grip pressure do you use with your putter?

Speaker 2

Well, I'm now using a broomstick putter.

Speaker 1

Oh so you switched switched lab. Okay, what grip pressure on scale of.

Speaker 2

One to ten, Probably like a three or four? Very light.

Speaker 3

But you know I've got my left hand, you know, thumb on top of the putter the grip and the second one very uh and then my three fingers on the left hand on the top are very light. And then I'm probably just you know, holding it in between my middle finger and my ring finger on my right hand very lightly, just to guide it.

Speaker 2

And you know, using a pendulum.

Speaker 1

Real, do you got it straight back?

Speaker 2

It feels like it?

Speaker 1

Yeah, I bet you don't, because l AB tells you that you don't need to l A B tells you that whatever arc you make, the putter will stay square to that pat Okay, okay, even if that's true, bad putting, But my putting improved. You got so, yeah, but you sucked still improvement. He actually knew.

Speaker 2

What Well, that's the whole idea. We all suck well.

Speaker 1

I mean, I don't teach people that just want to suck less. I don't teach people that want to suck less. I could teach people that want to suck less. I could sell all kinds of goofy little training aids, but that's not what I do. What I teach is real skill, better as good as you can possibly get. We don't start less.

Speaker 2

Are there putters on the market that you approve of?

Speaker 1

Absolutely not?

Speaker 2

Have you designed the ultimate putter? No? Wait, are you going to do that?

Speaker 1

Wouldn't make it. He was too egotistically made. He bought a pudder from Tad more than Tad had stuck in a drawer, and then he asked me to sell his pudd. I've been teaching his sixteen year old kid from sixteen to twenty two for free on my nickel. Six hundred and fifty miles away and this is uh, he's gonna help me. And this is how he helped me, said design pudder. I designed one and sent it to him, and then he bought a tad more made his unputter and asked me to sell it for him with a video.

Speaker 2

Wait, wait a minute, I missed who you're talking about.

Speaker 1

His name is Bob Kotch, medical swinger. For six years he was going to help me maybe, and then he never helped me, and he asked me to help him sell his pudder. Oh ouch, Yeah, Well, I mean that's that's the experience that I've had repeatedly dealing with people that tell me, you know, I could help you and I will help you, and you know, years go by and they never did.

Speaker 3

So wait a minute, are you saying that it doesn't matter what piece of equipment you used.

Speaker 1

It's a flat slab on the end of a stick. Yeah, you let me tell you what pudder you want.

Speaker 2

Ah, We're going to do that in a moment. Okay.

Speaker 3

I guess we've been waiting this entire time for your advice on what putter you would recommend so that we suck less.

Speaker 1

The same one. Jack Nicholas is to win the Masters when he was forty six years old.

Speaker 2

Yeah, but he's not going to sell it to us. And there was only one. There's only one of those putters, his butter.

Speaker 1

Big McGregor. He used a different putter that week, really huge McGregor, a very large area flat pudd.

Speaker 2

Was it a blad style but just really big?

Speaker 1

Oh no, It was like a frying pan, a square rectangular frying pan with a stick attached to it.

Speaker 2

And why was he using that? How did this come about?

Speaker 1

He was having success with it, so he put it in the bag and he used to the masters, you don't know what I do. Let me tell you why it's good. Yeah, A no wobble roll rolls perpendicular to the plane of the green. And that means that your impact cannot be toe up or held up, because then you will make a wobble. And that means that your putter's soul has to conform to ball below the feet slope or ball above the feet slope, and your stroke has to keep it flat through impact. Then you get

through wobble, through wobble, no wobble roll. All right. You have to think about bicycles in the hippodrome. They go perpendicular to the slanted track, not perpendicularly. Gravity Balls don't roll perpendicularly to gravity unless you're putting on the floor a level. Golfers always confuse the two words flat and level. They cannot get those distinguished.

Speaker 2

Please distinguish them for me.

Speaker 1

Level means the table top has all points equal elevation above the sea, and if you pour water on it, the water doesn't go anywhere. Flat could be tilted, but flat the table is still flat, but you tilted it.

Speaker 2

And all greens are kind of tilted. They have to be.

Speaker 1

When they mean they meant level, they just say the word flat. Oh okay, so that's bad. A putting stroke on a level surface like a basketball cord or marble, the putter soul would slide into the ball and that will go no wobble, true rolling plane of rotation. Take the break correctly because it's no wobble, and take the paste control correctly because there's no wobble. All right, So, ball below the feet, you got to flatten your putter and scrape it across that grass without the toe coming up,

with the eel coming up. Ball above the feet, you got to scrape it across that slope. Right, So flat is actually a big dag on deal, and the bigger the flat soul is. That's weird in golf because golfers always making little rockers under the putter. The bottom of the putters of a Scottie Cameron is a rocker. There's very little that's actually flat, and that encourages bad putting,

Thank you, Scottie. It's part of selling putters to people in gofsmiths stores when they go in there and pull it off the shelf and they set it down, toe up, they like it. They set it down, heel up, they like it. It's a marketing thing, not a performance thing. But if you get a big flat putter, you can hardly put anywhere other than where you exactly aim. It's too big to mess it up. You try to lift the toe on that putter, that McGregor putter that Jack

Nichols used, it's hard to do it. There's too much heal. You lift it up, you're just digging the heel in. You try to lift the heel up, you're digging the toe in. That's because it's big and flat, and that means you hit no oval rolls exactly where you aim. Because it's big and flat. Now, if the USGA actually knew how these things work, they would ban it. There's a friend of mine who is a little amateur guy. He's like seventy five year old psychiatrist named James Payne

Payn and he recently retired. He lives in Chapel Hill. He made a putter and he's enthusiastic because it does great. But it's the same thing as McGregor. Because he don't even know about the McGregor putter, because he's just an amateur peeling around with stuff. He actually reinvented the McGregor putter with a big flat bottom. You stick a shaft down there and then you slide it. You can't hardly miss where you ain't. You got the aim right, It goes in. So I teach I don't care about your putter.

Here about flat, no wobble, straight rolls exactly where you aim.

Speaker 3

Well, I think that and if i'm please correct me if I'm misinterpreting it. But that's what the lab light. And you lie it flat.

Speaker 2

It's lying flat on the ground.

Speaker 1

No but arc it and they tell you that you can hark it painlessly because the lab physics of the head torque will stay on plane even when you ark it. And then they tell you that when you unark it back to the impact point, it will perfectly hit exactly where you were aimed. And that's bogus b e es focus bog bogy All right, here's here. Let me just talk about brad facts and can't put.

Speaker 2

Oh boy, I asked you to be controversial.

Speaker 1

All you got to do is look at the Southern California PGA YouTube of one hour where he's paid probably five thousand dollars to tell war stories of teaching. Michaelroy and he's out there, he has one ten foot putt and he says, I aim the line on the ball, and I'm one of the first to ever use the line on the ball, and I always ain't the line on the ball, but I refuse to match my butterface aim to the line on the ball because that would

cramp my touch and feel. And then he arcs back and then he says, I shut the door at impact. All right, that's what he teaches, and he's he claims he's one of the best putters ever in the history of the world. All right. He had one point seven oh four putts for Green regulation when he was putting, and he did good. But Jordan Speith had one point six y nine. So the five or six guys in the last five years have done better than Faction in

as crazy as best year ever. Two other golfers did the same thing as Faction, David Toms and David Frost. One guy named Bob Hans did one point six eight two in the year two thousand and five, which is way way better than Brad faxon. All right, but here's the deal. Five putts from ten feet. The aim of the ball is one foot to the left of the hole. He missed four to the right four, and then he made the fifth one actually win. In the halt. His aim was correct all five, his reed was correct all five.

And he said, well, it must have been my read was wrong because I'm teaching in southern California and there's the ocean somewhere, and there's mountain somewhere, and that makes me a funny reader because I'm from Providence, Rhode Island,

or wherever he's from. Okay, now that explanation of why he missed the first four when he's aiming the line on ball and the fifth one actually went in that's completely ignorant, bad logic, stupid miss at that point, he missed it because his stroke and didn't go and where he games. He can't close the door accurately. He arcs, but he can't unarc. Okay, Now, all these people that arc in unarc, including the people that La B encourages to arc. No putters don't unark themselves. You got to

do it. And if it's arcing because of the torque droop, you got no way in the world to unark that. You can't unarched. You can't undroop your torquefall. Now there's two other ways that putter's arc and you don't know whether you're doing it or not. I see all these people I teach, they have no clue on whether they're actually putting straight. One is you roll your forearms. The front arm pronates palm down, the back arm supinates palm up.

That's the backstroke. Then you reverse that, suppenate the lead arm, pronate the back arm through impact. That's full swing habit. All the pros do that because they don't know what else to do. They get out there and they done five hours on the driving range, and they step on the putting green for thirty minutes to an hour. They rolled their forearms back and through. It's in all their movies. It's in all their videos. Colin more Cowa can't put Colin.

He hired a swing coach or a putting coach named Jeff Sweeney or I believe it is his name, Stephen Swing, Steve Swing, Australian guy teaching in southern Florid And Sweeney said, I think I know what's wrong with your petting. And Colin said, well, God, about time somebody did what's wrong. And Sweeney said, you're using your full swing motion. And Colin said, why is that bad? And Sweeney said, I don't know, but it's not working. What should I do?

I don't know. Okay, So he noticed that the full swing pro nation of the arms and hands was happening in the pudding and that wasn't working too good. All right, now, let's see who was the other guy just recently. I think it was might have been might have been Cheffer. I'm not sure. But they noticed for the first time in their life that when they stroke, their shoulder goes back in the through stroke. No coach ever told him, no friend ever told him. No caddy ever told him.

No fellow tour player ever noticed it and said, hey, that's not good. The first time they ever noticed that, they had already been playing golf for about ten or fifteen years, and they had been on tour for four or five years, and they just noticed that the shoulder goes that way. That's the third way that you do things that make it arc. You rotate your torso. That's what all golfers do on the driving ranch their torso ten years into playing serious golf, and that's the first

time he notices that. And you say, well, what should you do instead? Blank? Nothing? All right, Now, let me tell you what Crenshaw does. Because he goes arking to the inside, he comes back to the ball, and if he doesn't time it right, he's dead. But when he comes back to the ball, he changes to vertical, and when he gets back to the ball, his lead shoulder

goes up from the ball to his foot. And the telltale sign is if you stood down the line at the hole and look back at his putter and took a picture when it's one foot past impact, the sweet spot is directly above the line of the stroke, and the faces square and his shoulder went up from the ball to the foot. Ain't nobody knows that but me.

Speaker 2

He doesn't know it, And you're saying that is correct.

Speaker 1

I'm saying that he fixed a bad backstroke. Okay, he has to do a perfect timing. Now, he's got a video The Art of Hutting with Ben Crenshaw BHS. Right in the middle of that video, he's got a thirty foot up he'll put and he says, I'm going to sink two of them. Boom. The first one he hits four feet wrong to the right us like faction. And the second one I think he sank it or he got a lot closer to the left. But he did not comment on that first one because he did not

know what was wrong. I do his stroke did not close because he misstimed it. All right, So you do an arcing stroke. You have to time every single one of those perfectly. If you're like a nano second off. If you're too late closing, you go to the right. If you're too early closing, you go to the left. Now, the accuracy of your line control from ten feet away.

If you have a dead straight putt to the center of a cup ten feet away, one hundred and twenty inches away, and from the center of the cup to the right edge of the cup is two and one eighth of an inch. If you misstroke it by one degree, you miss the right edge, all right? Now, how much of the toe is out of square? The very end of that toe is moved? How much to the right

when you misstroke at one degree point zero three inches? Wow? Okay, that's not a tenth of an inch, that's one third of the tenth of an inch, and you're dead all right, But flat fixes all that, Jeff.

Speaker 3

So many of us when we're out on the golf course, we have a GPS with us, or we have a rangefinder with us, and we're looking at like, Okay, I'm one hundred and forty yards to the pin, or I'm you know, two hundred yards, or I'm fifty yards to the pin, but we're trying to get distances there.

Speaker 2

How do you feel about the fact.

Speaker 3

That so many people don't really concern themselves with the exact distance they are from the hole when they're starting their first putt or any putt for that matter, and they're like, oh, it's feel it's just kind of like I got a sense of where it is over there?

Speaker 2

How what is your your instruction about walking off the distance of your putts.

Speaker 1

I don't want to number. I want a.

Speaker 2

Fact, and a number is not a fact.

Speaker 1

Appreciate the distance as a fact.

Speaker 2

Okay.

Speaker 1

Fact means if I had to walk to it, how many places in a military parade stride would take And the answer is twelve that's thirty feet away. Four military parade steps is ten feet. Each military pride step is two and a half feet thirty inches. And if you don't do the parade step stride correctly in the military, you make the whole parade look like crap, and they give you KP and work you make you go dig latrine.

Hope if everybody in the military knows two point five strides, and if you look from here to the hole and you say how far is it? The first indication is how many steps would it be? If I did relitary stripes, And you can get within two or three feet just by looking. You don't need to walk it off. But that is effort, not number. Okay. Now, Uphill is more effort uphill. Downhill is less effort downhill. Sure, other things you can do is you can look at a cup

the size of a real cup. If you move it away, the size regularly shrinks in a parent width. Okay, the real size is this big right at your nose, like you're going to drink from a cup liner four and a half inches or four and a quarter inches wide. There you go. And if you move that away from you, it's a certain width, a parent width at ten feet, and if you move it to twenty feet, it's half that width. And if you move it to thirty feet, it's one third of that whip that it was at

ten ten feet. The appearance, that's a brain way of looking at distance, not a number. You have to appreciate the distance as a fact right now. In distance control, that has to be related to your tempo and rhythm, that effort. And then when you do that, you say, go to the hole and stop. Don't break your glass if it's sitting there. Don't go screaming past the hole.

That's like a stick in the eye. If there's a cliff of California and the Pacific Ocean that's just past the hole, don't give me enough gas to go off the cliff. Give me enough gas to get there and stop. The brain does that and then when you make your stroke, that's athletic. Right now, The golf world went kind of off the rails with numbers. When Jack Nicholas started using artist books in the sixties, that was illegal. That was

called using an artificial device. Wow. The USJ tapped him on the shoulder and said, you get DQ's if you use the artist book. And Jack Nichols said, I'm on TV, I'm a tour player. We got our own rules.

Speaker 2

Buf Whow, I never heard that story. That's amazing, look up.

Speaker 1

Okay, so the USJ chicking out. They didn't want to defy TV's Greatest Golfer or the tour and said chicken out, and they did said nothing, And then they changed the rule and made an exception to using an artificial device gets you disqualified. And the exception said, if a lot of golfers do it and think it's okay, it's cheating because it's not skillful. And that's why you can't use artificial devices. You got to use your own personal skill.

But if a lot of golfers cheat, we're not going to say no. We will say instead that this form of cheating has been traditionally accepted and you won't right now, Arnold Palmer chimed in because he was like ten years older, sure, and he said, use your eye. You're not athletic if you use a book. Right now. In putting, one club goes a thousand different distances the putt. In chipping, a chipping club goes a thousand different distances. In pitching, a

pitch club goes a thousand different distances. A sand bunker club goes different distances. That's a little different because you got to calibrate how much sandy get. But putting, chipping, and pitching those require athletic targeting on where your ball stops, and they don't do that. They do yards instead, and they get all kind of in between when the yard isn't exactly what they've been hitting on the driving range, all right, So they actually would do better if they

knew more about targeting. And that's what I teach. I teach skill, perception, intentionality. The brains will do the physics. The brain will come up with the force of the swing to pop it right down at the hole. Now, the example is a nineteen year old, pretty serious amateur one hundred and twenty five yard pit shot from the top of a hill down to a green slanting a little bit away from the fairway flagstick right in the middle, and the green is kind of narrow left and right

long front to back. He hit one down there and it went off the back. I said, okay, let me fix you. Take a yellow plastic wet floor sign that says Pizzo mahido and put it likely behind the flag stick and swear that if you go past it, you got a stick in the eye for pain. Now hit it flush, nice tempo, Hit it flush two feet immediately right online. Now, let me tell you Leonardo da Vinci agrees with me, and he's a weird kind of a guy.

He actually wrote that animals have pain and plants do not have pain, and the function of pain is to keep animals from colliding with objects in the way. Okay, now that's yeah, that's buttons on perfect that they can't say at Harvard Neuroscience. That's exactly what I teach. Okay, I found that Leonardo agrees with me. I feel pretty good about that.

Speaker 3

Yeah, tell me tell me what you feel about bifurcation.

Speaker 1

I think that it's well time to do it. Yeah, okay, I mean, you know, here's a here's a little even further thing, you know, like the grateful dead bus was called further. Yeah, all right, here's the.

Speaker 2

Thing we took an hour to get to grateful.

Speaker 1

We'll start. You need a new golf organization called real Golf that dispenses with the u s g A whoa solid simple, stupid little rules clad as it lays because out of bound, put it back in bound, don't go back to the t You can grind your club and the hazard. Who cares? Those are the rules.

Speaker 3

That was my next question. That's not fair. My next question was, Okay, you're in charge. What's the first thing you're going to do with rules? What things are you going to.

Speaker 1

Do most possible so that amateurs will actually be able to follow them? A lot degrees and a master in taxes to follow the USDA rules. They're stupid. What Lincoln

puts rut those rules lawyers. When you go back to the ab frost thing that hangs on the wall where the guys, you know, making there's like only twelve rules originally, and but now they got God, they got nuanced words that you got to look up in chapter eight to find out what the meaning was, and you got to look at the decision to find out how they actually apply them, and it's just terrible. I mean, the USDA is all over the map. They don't even know what

skill is. Now, let me rant this real quick on this, because you asked the question. The yards books were originally illegal because they're not the golfer's eye and senses telling him about the conditions of the golf course and how to play the shot. Anything that's other than that, like a cat book, a green map, a yards book, a laser plumb bobby, an unusual use of your putter, all of those are illegal. That is, the USGA's obligation is to protect the game of skill from cheating, all right.

They don't want fake scores. They want a real handicap in a stipulated round. They want real competition according to the rules of skill. It's not like NASCAR where everybody drives the same stock card and see who can get across the fench line a little quicker. It's you. You got to see it, you got to read it, you got to put it. All right, Then they made that

goofy exception if it's traditionally accepted. The first case that they considered was the yards book, and they said traditionally accepted. We're sorry, go ahead, keet it away. You know what. The second one was plumb bobbing. They considered the case of plumb bobbing. They said, so many golfers teat with it, accepted that wasn't even cheating because plump bobbing doesn't work. But that's the USJA completely, spaghetti head. I'm being able

to think and apply the rules. Lasers. You know how, the USJA and RNA met for years talking about whether you can have a laser. The out was, we're not going to tell you it's okay. In fact, we say no, but if any local committee wants to let you use the laser, knock yourself out. What kind of rule was that? All right? So the second little rule, but no laser can be approved by a local committee if it tells

you plays as up or down. This is one hundred and fifty yards as usually your seven iron or your eight iron, but since it's ten feet up, use an eight lasers do that? They said, we don't approve that, and we don't want a local committee to approve it. And if you have one of those lasers in your bag, even if you don't use it, DQ all right now. They've backed off of that one recently. What is what is a green map? Yardage books or yardage only, not elevation,

not win calculators. And when they got to the rut the lasers, they said, well, as long as you don't use the plays up and down function, it's not any different from the yard's book. And we already cooked on that. So they proved lasers, all right, But a green map is not limited to mileage. It is fall lines and slope percent numbers and equal conjur lines and that's all illegal as hell. And you know who makes these books,

Fred Funk's caddy, Mark Long. He hires teenagers and college kids to wear GPS backpacks and walk the US Open fairways so he can get the digital data of the shape of the golf course and the bunkers and all the water hazards. And then he has them GPS the greens and then he produces the maps of the golf course, including green maps, and sells them to US Open contestants

at Tory Pines for two hundred dollars. Now you know who walks the course with Mark when he's doing that, and who confers with Mark about where to put the pins. You know of the USGA, Mike Davis. Google it. You'll find the articles where they talk about it in the magazines. There's so dumb that they don't know what illegal is anymore.

They don't even know. Mark Long tells the USGA setup man where to put the pins, and then he sells illegal maps, commercially produced maps of information about the course conditions that it's otherwise verboten. But they don't know that it's the USG Right now, you remember how they recently ban using a digital green reader. Okay, here's the actual

text from the USGA. You can't use a digital green reader to make information into your caddy book, but you can buy a green map from Mark Long, and they used his name in the actual press release. Wow. The only thing about those green maps is they got to be small if you blow them up. But this is crazy. You can't use a digital green reader in practice on the golf course to make a note in a caddy book, but you can buy a professionally produced one that's got the information in there.

Speaker 2

Unbelievable.

Speaker 1

They're nuts, all right. And I said, what do you really feel? Well, you asked me about Bobber. This is further, we need real golf with for rules and skill, not happy golf with cheating to put down a happy score.

Speaker 2

Well, Jeff mangham, it is always a pleasure, dude. I can't believe that.

Speaker 1

You know.

Speaker 2

What I love about you is you don't need a quarter.

Speaker 3

All you need is ten cents. And man, you are off and running right. Well, it was great to talk to you again.

Speaker 1

It's like in Vietnam and the lieutenant says, you got to dig that in little train and the guys the private looks back at him from the private from Cleveland looks back at him and says, what are you gonna do? Send me to Vietnam. I got my opinion. They can't send me to Vietnam. I'm already there.

Speaker 3

Oh, Jeff, thanks so much, buddy. Thank you for responding, and you know, for answering. I don't know if you answered any of my questions, but I sure was educated.

Speaker 1

Yeah, well you do better with that light big putter.

Speaker 2

Well he's nothing of he's not controversial. What a trip, right?

Speaker 3

And how crazy is it that our timing of last week and this coming week's Mulligan's episode featured two conversation with Jeff Mangum from September of twenty twelve, twelve years ago. He's really worth the deep dive if you want to improve your putting and be thoroughly entertained by someone with a mind that doesn't seem to occupy the same planet as the rest of us. And to those of you who understood the seventies reference to the episode title in the intro, let me just say hello seekers.

Speaker 2

I'll leave it at that.

Speaker 3

So I'm headed up to Seattle, Washington, Tomorr to play a couple including Chambers Bay, which I've been warned is pretty tough, and there's rain in the forecast, so keep your fingers crossed for us. We're also playing Eagles Talent Course at Willow's Run in Redmond. This week's Golf Smarter Ambassador Bob Anklem of Rosemont, Minnesota, or since this is the week of the Democratic Invention, I have to.

Speaker 2

Say the great state of Minnesota. Not like WC. Fields.

Speaker 3

I spent a lot of time in Minnesota during the nineties in Minneapolis working with the Twins, and one spring day at the beginning of the season, I rented a bike and rode around the lakes for hours on an absolutely magnificent day when I got to work that night, as baseball games in the Metrodome those years were played at night, and I mentioned to one of the team's employees that it was such a beautiful day, and if you know, when I was riding around and if it

was beautiful like that all the time, it would be called California. His classic response was, that's why we have winter to keep the riffraff out. Anyway, Thanks Bob for becoming a Golf Smarter Ambassador, and don't forget to tell your playing partners.

Speaker 2

That you are.

Speaker 3

On this week's Golf Smarter episode, Bob asked for a free link to Tony Manzoni's video of the Lost Fundamental, which was his gift just for sharing with us where he lives, plays and which episode number this is. I'd like to invite you to also be one of our Golf Smarter Ambassadors and choose from one of three great gifts. When you play, all you need to do is introduce a future episode. Just write to Golf Smarter podcast at gmail dot com and I'll get back to you with

some very simple instructions on how to play. If you have any questions, comments, or suggestions, For upcoming episodes, please write to golf Smarter Podcast at gmail dot com or click on the Heyfred button when you visit golfsmarter dot com

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