Hi. This is father John Canaro from Oswego, New York, and I play in Oswego Country Club. This is Golf Smarter number nine three.
What did we learn in twenty twenty four that we can bring to twenty twenty five and take advantage of?
Take advantage of. I think we've learned that the viewership in the world is kind of tired of hearing about money. I think we can stop that. I think we can learn that we can all get along. I think you sought the PGA Championship that rips Koepka and Bryce and d Chambeau and these guys can get along with each other. They're fine, It's going to be okay. And I'm hoping we learned that maybe this should happen across the board.
I'll tell you right now, if I owned a tour and I could have the opportunity to have the personalities that play on with play a few of my events, I'd want them out there. I hope we've learned that. Maybe from the PGA Championship, we learned that, and we'll learn it from the Masters.
Pro Golf in the twenty first century, can TGL lead the way the return of golf Agent Mac Barnhardt. This is Golf Smarter, sharing stories, tips and insights from great golf minds to help you lower your score and raise your golf IQ. There's your host, Fred Green. Welcome back to the Golf Smarter podcast. Mac.
Thanks Brad. Great to be back, sir. Thank you.
It's great to have you back. I had so much fun last time and quoted you so many times from your last episode that I was like, could not wait to get you back on.
Thanks for you. I'm very honored for that. I really do appreciate it.
So there's so many topics I want to go over but right now, and I don't usually do newsworthy conversation, but there's a couple of things going on in golf industry right now that are really fascinating. You can see I'm wearing my Bay Golf Club shirt. I mean, I saw the first night of TGL, bought the shirt for the Bay that's my team, right So it's one of the one of the things you talked about Live Blue
was the fact that they didn't regionalize their teams. And here TGL comes in and creates not necessarily because these guys are from there, but they created teams from different regions so that you can root for that.
I've got Atlanta. I've got a Lucas Glover. A climb of mine is only Atlanta Drive.
Which he's on Atlanta always. Okay, well, this isn't more of my questions.
Is Atlanta Drive hat right here with the big A right here on it? Okay? Own, you know it's it's It's been a lot of fun. I know they've got some technical difficulties that are happening.
And but of course it was the first. I mean, they've only done it twice.
I've never seen Tiger last so hard. The other night when Kevin Kiszner boned it out of the bunker into the flagick, and that's good to see Tiger.
And good to see Tiger being a person instead of right do that and that really exposed that. It was beautiful.
And I saw Kevin Kissner, I was done in Palm Springs for the American Express event. He had flown I guess that night after the thing into and he was because he's playing and I ran into him and I looked at him and he was talking about it, and I said, man, I just love when you guys hit a shot like that. So that you can prove to even the best players in the world can do it. And you know, and that was his first trip there. That people don't realize he did not get a practice session.
Lucas has got a couple of practice sessions. But I had Mike McCarley, who did it, who started that whole deal of Jeff new Barth with And I mean, I love it. I love the team part of it. They you know, there was a team chat with Atlanta Drive watching it together, so can't lee, Justin Thomas and Billy Horschell, all four of them commenting about certain things. And I won't go into the summer because it was really they were. They were having fun with those guys that were hitting
bad shots. And but I go and people think team doesn't work, And here's four guys that really aren't related in any way. Justin Thomas, Lucas is the older guy, and they're.
Just other than being on the PGA, they.
Are now on the Atlanta Drive. And I think it's the coolest thing. I have Gear my son, who is Lucas's Godfather's Lucas god son. You know, he's got he's ordered swag. And I said, dude, I can get that for you for free. He goes, No, I just use your credit card, I said, So yeah, I love it.
Yeah yeah, yeah, so yeah, what so two weeks into it, we'll probably publish this on the day of the third the third episode. Your thoughts about you know, I mean, like technical of course, there's going to be technical issues. There's going to be things that they have to learn as they figure it out. And you know, like like to me, like when you creating almost a boxing or wrestling atmosphere, when they walk into the arena, but they're walking it's like, no, dude, get fired up, pump it up.
Let's you know, don't be so cool like I'm a PGA tooy. Just let's fire this crowd up. Because the crowd is kind of yeah, the crowd is kind of separated, so you don't really get a full sense of loud, you know and emotional.
Yeah, you got to kind of look at it like the sixteenth hole in Scott's Downe at the waste Management. You know, they've got that thing surrounded now and it's now so yeah, yeah, that's kind of what it's like in there. I wish the first match didn't quite have as much banner between the players, and we were talking about they've got a shot clock, but they really don't
need it. You know, they've got the electronic measures, they know the numbers, so there's and you know, once they pick it, then they've got you know, I don't think the shot clock ever got below like fifteen on anybody. And and the.
Second week, that heartbeat got louder and louder. I saw one of them going down to about two.
Okay, but about the first one and okay, and but yeah, I mean, I think the only technical difficulty that I've seen, and it was there when Lucas did his practice sessions and I was with him, is the wedges.
For some reason, I think Lucas had like one hundred and forty yard shot and he hit it like one fifty one, and he looked at me like whoa. And the guy with me, one of the guys, he goes and Lucas says, I hit that one forty one. And the guy goes says, he know that, And I'm like, yeah, he knows that. I go. That's what makes some pros.
Those guys know how far their wedges go. They might be a little oh yeah, they might be a little off on their four and five hours, but no, inside one thirty forty they can hit it within New York and that's what makes them so great. So when you saw Tiger miss it by twenty yards of the wedge, the Greg when he.
Overshot right and he's like, I've never hit that club that far.
So there's something that they've got to figure out there. But look, you know who cares if they did hit that by the shot? You know what, It's just this is an entertainment product. This is not the Masters, it's not the US Open and the Open Chainampionship. It's entertainment. It's a time for people to see these guys in
a little different light. See I'm a little more you know, Like I said, I if one of them walked out with a beer and just stuck it on the ground like we would, you know, if you people played I said, nothing wrong with that. I'm not trying to tell people to drink and play god, but they do.
Oh wouldn't that be hilarious if they had a beverage cart pull up the girl. Yeah, I'm not going to say that. I'm going to say a beverage cart. I'm not going to say it's a card girl. But if they had somebody pull up when they're when he's about to tee off, somebody pulls up with drinks.
Okay, let's just be honest. I mean, well, you know, but yeah, I love it. I've been down there. I've got and I get to see it inside, you know, inside the roads there. And so I went down with Lucas and it was just it's a blast. And mister Arthur Blank who owns the Atlanta Drive and has put so much behind it, and he's such a great guy, you know, a big goth enthusiast, and and and I think that's what this is about. And I think, you know,
younger kids will really dig this. I think there's some guys at my club at home Frederica Golf Club that you know, a little older, that you know, is kind of poopoing it a little bit. But I mean, you.
Know, that's not for them. And that's not who it's the Nines for.
It's not who it's So I'm excited about it.
So does each team have a different owner something that someone that's not associated with and who determines who's going to be on the team.
Is an invitational or yeah, they draft them.
Yeah, so Lucas getting on a team is phenomenal. I yea great exposure too.
I mean, everybody there's if he's not the most likely player on tour, he's got to be close to it. He's one of the most authentic and very intelligent guys. Probably one of the best ball structors that ever played the game, you know, considering the average career on tours two point seven years and he's been out here twenty one years. Speaks volumes, and he went through quite a time where he couldn't make it from two feet at times. That shows you how a good ball striker is and
a competitor and a hard worker. But yeah, it's been a lot of fun. And you know, I don't I know Billy Horsa really well. I know justin Thomas a little. I barely know Patrick can't leave. They're but they're all four very different people. But it's fun. It will be fun to see them mailed into a team, and I think they'll all learn something from each other.
So you have four people on a team but only three are playing. Is that just because someone's gonna go at my schedule is not.
Gonna work this correct? Yeah, Lucas Lucas is not going to play the first match on the twenty first, but he will play the doubleheader on February seventeen, so he's out and you know, and again that's double header. Yeah, there's he's going to play the two matches. It's a double header coming up from the seventeen, I hope. But well, wow, people tell them, yeah, yeah, he's playing two matches on the seventeen. Oh wow, yeah, okay, But he loves it.
I mean, the fun thing about him is he lives right there, so he'll just go down now and easy. And I tell people all the time, I said, if you're wealthy, or if you have a company and you wanted to have some fun, how about renting that place out for instead of instead of having a pro am or a outing at a golf course, how about renting that thing out at night and maybe even hiring some
of these players to come play with you. And I mean, I think, you know, I think, as I said to my Jeff Newbarf, who's on the producer or whatever it is, I said, I think there's going to be a huge demand for people wanting to rent this thing out. I mean, it is. It's also I know I couldn't afford it, but but it's a it's pretty cool. I was hoping they give a little just be corporated. Yeah yeah, yeah, well I think no, I think you will have some guys rented out for fun.
Big players.
Yeah.
Wow. Well, and I can't wait to see mixed teams. I want to see, you know, a woman on the team. I want to see women playing against women. I want to see the seniors.
Like.
One of the things that was pointed out that I thought was amazing is Tiger really can't walk seventy two holes and be competitive right now, it feels like, but he can do this. So if it's not going to be taxing on you physically to play in a man exactly, bring the old guy. I would love to watch that.
Well, I agree with you one hundred percent. I agree. Also, I wouldn't shock me that this doesn't parley into having women's teams or mixed teams. I wouldn't shot me. You know, I'll say this out loud. I thought how cool it would be to have one team playing a mystery team and having that mystery team be Bryson d. Chambeau and Brooks Kepka, Dustin Johnson and Harold Warner walking out and a live team and say, okay, we're all fine, let's get back and play golf this we can all get
along well and it'll be okay. I mean, I think there could be a lot of things done well.
So if it was invitation only to beyond teams, did they exclude live players intentionally?
Looks like it. I don't see we.
You're not going there.
It's still a little minefield out there with that stuff. I'm a I'm a big I'm a big PGA tour fan, Asian tour fan. I'm a big live tour fan. I have golfers that play golf for a living. There can't be enough leagues and opportunities out there for me and some people. And there's people that you know don't like me because it and uh, I'm you know, I said,
I'm sorry, that's just my level. And I you know, as I said, if you haven't been to a little event, I really don't want to talk to you because they're incredibly fun. And those guys are having a ball out, they're playing that golf. You know, it's three rounds. And I was telling somebody the other day, I said, people don't realize that the Corn Fairy Tour, which started out as the Ben Hogan Tour, it was a fifty four hole tournament. So just a lot of that rhetoric. They
just they just they handled it all wrong. We went through that in their first session. So they just handled it all wrong. And it'll it'll sneak its way back in somehow.
All right, let's pick it up where we left off. Here are talking about Live because last time you were on, we had a long conversation about it and I appointed you the commissioner and you said, well, the first thing I would do is.
Take the meeting absolutely right.
So there's been some in the last week or so as we're recording this, there's been a lot of changes in live structure and they announced a TV deal with Fox.
Absolutely monstrous.
Yeah, so tell me what your thoughts are about what's going to happen with LIV next. Is it going to catch on or is it going to peter out? And these guys are going to get to come back to the PGA Tour and TGL is gonna you know, like take over what they were trying to do with the team golf concept.
Yeah, I think wow, I'll tell you. I we may have talked about this, but go back and look at film of the Ryder Cup back in the seventies and eighties. Go find some and look at how many people were there. They couldn't they couldn't give the tickets away to come to the Ryder Cup. It was a great exhibition of golf. And then the war by the Shore ninety one turned it into something that they can't even you know, they're
the dog that caught the car. Now that thing is so big and gonna be in York, and so does it catch on? I don't see how it can't. I mean looking not only the talent they have, but the personalities they have. Sergio Garcia, Bryceon de Tembo, Brooks Kepka, all different people, Harold Varner.
Come on, wait wait brooks Kepka and personality. Come on, you have Bryson. Yes, Brooks is not a big personality, you.
See, this is the thing. Yeah he is, he is. Go watch Go watch the tournament because it's a little more free flowing. And when I see personality, it doesn't mean they're all like Harrol Warner. They're not Lee Travino or or whatever. But he has a personality. He has a swagger. I mean he's cool. He's cool, right, I mean he's a cool dude. Dustin Johnson's cool that. I mean, they're cool. I mean, so it has to catch on to some point because they have the funding. Now they
have a TV deal with Fox. You're going to get exposed to it. Eventually, the rhetoric's going to go away. Hopefully Brandle can calm down a little bit and call him. He's calling solidy money dirty money because it's all money, and I'm like, well, buddy, I got a feeling. We got a guy coming in the office. There's gonna be some all coming out of our ground soon.
And old money golf come on.
So but like I say, yeah, I think it's going to catch on because I think what people, even though all this stuff is really hurt professional golf, all the talk about.
The money and all the the participation of golf is way way up, and I don't think the problem is as much a viewership is down. I just think it's back to normal viewership. Before Tiger showed up, you know I did. I had a guy I don't say his name, Walter Mueller. He's one of the I played golf with him. So he's at Frederica and Congaree and places and probably on the smartest mathematical minds in the world and worked
for Bank of America for a long time. And I asked him, could you take Tiger out of the model? Could you take Tiger out of the model for me of the PGA tour? So if he had never shown up, where would we be as far as persons Just so, he gets on his computer, really nice bottle of Bordeaux, and he's typing, and he shows me a chart and he has to explain it to me, and he shows me like somebody. I don't think people remember nineteen eighty one.
My brother was catting on tour. But the first place to Houston open was forty five thousand dollars in nineteen eighty one. So the chart and the growth between nineteen eighty and nineteen ninety five is a very constant, slow growth of the game in persas. And then this kid from California shows up and persons ignite and you can see that graph line just shoot up in the air and it just I mean, it's skyrockets. But yet he
continue on like Tiger would have never been there. How he did that I'm sure it had pie in it, and I'm sure it had all kinds of things, but he did it.
Okay, give it to the matter.
So he runs it all the way out to where we are today, and purses would be between five and a half and six million dollars. And that sounds really low right now, right, I mean compared to.
What still sounds amazing. But is that really low compared to what's going on?
Well, twenty million?
Oh my god, kay, okay, I'm PGA tour to purses are in the twenty million.
The signature much I'm signature events I think are twenty million dollars. It's up there. It's a lot.
What about the Masters? What is that counts there?
That's always been a funny thing. All those all the organizations seem to always have kind of the same persons. They all just regardless. I don't know, but I think the Masters does not promote money. And as I think we said, the Masters could hold that tournament and say we're not paying you a dime. You get a jacket in the trophy and an invitation back if you win, and everybody would show up for the Master's period, right.
Well, that was on TGL the first night when they were interviewing Tiger and they were commenting on the guy who was on the sidelines his coat, and Tiger's like, I'll take a green one, thank you. I would never wear that.
You go so so masters never talks about money, which I love. It's not about the money got them. It's great you get paid. I was telling somebody Dak Prescott, I don't know how much he signed for, but every time he threw a touchdown pass, they didn't tell you how much money as contract was. That was talked about one time, and it's one of the things that's hurt golf is that every day there's here's more money. Why don't we play for more than that. Let's play for
the competition. Yeah, you get paid, but but yeah, so and then I told somebody that, and again this could be wrong. I mean, walterd could be off a little bit, but I doubt it. Guys, but six million sounds really low to people. Oh come on, and I said, do you know what the second largest tour own earth four round tour, I'll call it the four round tour would be the European Tour. And you where their persons are three million? So six millions, probably not far off of
what if Tiger had never shown up. And so here's the big question now that Tiger's kind of he had left the game, but that he's not a consistent performer on the PGA Tour. Were they already headed in the wrong direction of having purses to be ten million and twelve million and fourteen million and twenty million without Lift showing up. Were they already heading out of sustainability for what really the marketplace will hold. It's kind of like
the Michael Jordan thing. I watched the NBA when Michael Jordan played the minute he retired. I don't think I've seen the game since, not because Lebron Kobe. I mean, Michael grew up North Carolina where I did. But that's just it was. I love watching Michael Jordan play basketball, and I think there were people that loved to watch Tiger Woods play golf, as they should, and I think when he didn't play, I think a lot of people
quit watching and went back out to play. I mean, I'll have to tell you, except for clients winning a golf tournament, the only time on a Sunday that I would come in off the range or not play golf is if Tiger was winning something, because I wanted to see what he was going to do, because I knew he wasn't going to choke. I knew he was going
to beat you. I knew he had that I went, but I unless it was a client right now, there's no way that I would lead the range to go watch any other golfer win nothing against them, And I think that's where the tour has to be careful with where they are. They have to realize who they really are. Now. You know, if ratings are down thirty percent, maybe that's just those thirty percent of the people were just Tiger people. And so and again we went through that. I was
pretty critical of the tour and I still am. I think they haven't made very many, if any good decisions involved in all this, and I hate to be that way. And I get called the Joe Rogan of GoF because of that, But I'm being honest. So we'll live back to the question, we'll live make it, I think. So. I think this TV product is I mean with Fox is going to be a big part of it.
Yeah, it's going to change their exposure dramatically obviously, And what about Greg Norman Out, Scott O'Neill in.
Yeah, I think that's a good deal. I think I think Greg got it to where it was, it was ready to go to put somebody.
As far as he could get it.
I think he could. I think he could have going. I mean Greg's a smart man, I mean, and a good guy. Listen, there's some stories I'm not going to tell him. But I don't think Greg is done. He's a better guy than people make him out to be. I've I mean, yeah, he's very cocky, very confident, and I hadn't met anybody successful yet that's not but yeah, he was smarter to do it. But I think he's you know, he's in his late sixties. I mean it's he's probably ready to go enjoy himself. And he got
it to where it is. And now they've brought somebody in I think to take it to the next level. And I think, you you know, I think all businesses get to that point. I mean, Steve Jobs built Apple, but he didn't run it from that level, right, I mean, he got it to the point. So yeah, I'm bulleth on it. I think it'll I think it'll go. And look they're going I mean, we'll see my first event.
I'll go to be in Miami. I've got Andy Ogletree as a client, And just to tell you that, Andy just flew out today to California to FIL's house and the High Flyers are having a kind of a spring training camp right now before they take off. So it's real. People are not teams not I mean Phil. I mean, you know, Andy signed with Phil's team, not because it was the best money, not because but he was going to get to learn under one of the greatest players
ever play. So I mean, yeah, so that's it's pretty cool. I'm on both sides of it. It's pretty fine.
But a lot of people complain about LIVE is that what are they playing for? I mean, you know they don't have you know, like Tiger just wants to win majors, right, I mean, where where does it leave you in history as far as professional golf is concerned. What is LIV trying to get to? To get people go, I gotta go back every year and watch this type of thing.
Well, I mean, let's look at it. Let's look at how golf. Pro golf really got started. There were from amateur golf, yeah, but they were community, they were community events. Let's go to Greensboro to wind them championship. A small little tournament used to be called a GGO. It was run by the Chamber of Commerce. It was to promote Greensboro, Okay, And as time went on and went on, and the golf course was kind of you know, and a guy named Bobby Long came in and saved it because it
was so good for the community. They gave all this money back to the charity and it gave I mean for that six days. If you go to that event, they don't have the best players in the world play there. I mean, they don't get that field. They got Tiger one time that kind of messed them up. But as a rule they'll get a few top players. But it's the last event before the playoffs. It's a lot of
Scottie Scheffler's not there. But go there and see if you think there's not a buzz because it's a community event. They come in, they've got shelai'se they go have drinks with friends and they go follow God. But the goth is kind of an add on. It's kind of like the waste management who has what one hundred thousand people to day there's not one hundred thousand people watching goth at Waste Management if you've ever been there, and it's
a community event. So when Live goes to Australia, which the tour never did, and you bring these players in, go watch the crowd in the environment for that one week, and the Kentucky Derby, you go to Blexington that one week. By the it's in happening is where you are. And so these golf tournaments Sanderson Farms in Mississippi, they don't have hardly any top players play, but you should go
see the community come out together. And again that's when the tour was a nonprofit and they were giving all this money out to charity. I don't know what's going to happen now that they're a private equity funded for profit things that I think that's another eric. But so when LIV goes to an environment that doesn't see this kind of golf, Singapore, the places they go, it's a big deal. Whoever they bring, I don't even think they half of them know. But all you have is one name.
And then going back to the majors, Collin Montgomery, Okay, never want a major, Never want a major, you know, any event. You can win any tournament you want, but you're not really recognized to you in a major, and that's all that matters, you know, And I know there's out there if you play the live tour you can't get in a major. Well not true. You can qualify for the US Open. You can. You can do things. And now the pg of America is allowing live players
to play. They invited live players to play in the event they're going to come back together, and I think the pg of America will be the front runner in bringing GoF back together, if you wan, in my opinion, I really do. They once started this thing, they started a tour. PG Tour used to be known as to TPA Tournament Players Association. You got to go back some time in this, Okay, you have to go back. But yeah, that's where the PGA Tour came from, is the PGM America.
Because they are the grassroots guys that over I mean, they're the guys that are overseeing every golfer in America the club pros at both public and private clubs. So that would be my guess is the PGM of America will end up being the conduit to bringing golf back together prediction.
You were talking about these various events where it creates a buzz locally. But now to promote a sport to grow as sport, things you need, well, you need online, you need television, you need to make it a global and if that's only a national thing, but it's got to be like national thing. So like, I don't know, I watched the PNC Tour that's not an official tour event, but yet watching the team of a professional player and somebody in their family, you know, Tiger and Charlie, there
was a buzz. There was a real buzz about that.
Man, are you kidding? I mean the Shark Shootout used to have that and in Naples. Yeah, I mean, I guess I'd go back to grow. What is the purpose to grow it? I mean it will grow at his own financial okay, but how much is enough? I mean, I mean, this is the whole point is that. I mean the artificially grows something or you can't make it grow. I mean John Daily showed up in ninety one. He was a gross spurt. I call him a gross spurt when he won the PGA Championship. I think we man
mentioned it at the time. If you've got ten or fifteen thousand dollars for a day outing for a pro big deal. And I remember John Day, we heard that he got fifty thousand for a day outing and we were losing our minds because you know, rises all boats, right, and then if you really want to watch the boat rise. In nineteen ninety six, Tiger Wood shows up and Tiger Woods made everybody in GOP money, me club reps, people
made grips. He made everybody money. You know, this pip deal they did, you know, giving money to the players that impacted the tour. I don't know if you know about that. Yeah, so the tour decided there were ten or whatever guys that really mattered, and they gave and they had some kind of made up I think it's made up. And Tiger got the first prize for player
impact and he played three events. He got ten million dollars in Scotti scheffer he got eight million, Jordan Spieth got four and a half million, Wyndham Clark got three and a half million, And I'm like, well, first of all, they should have just given all the money to Tiger. First of all, because the impact of the tour has been affected for forty years Bobby Watkins, Gary Coch, Robert Wren. There's guys that have been playing Wednesday pro ams for free to promote the tour for years and years. I
mean there's not a name that I can't mention. Every tour player has given free time and europe meteaites to the tour to impact the tour. So before you know, in the eighties, there were people doing things. In the nineties and Greg normand the tour and everyone impacted the tour. But Tiger he was the needle. He didn't move the needle.
He was the needle. So if you want to give money away for impacting the tour, just give it all the Tiger and be done with it, because I promise you no one else has ever touched the needle like that. Greg Norman got a little close to it, Palmer back in the day, Nicholas a little bit. I mean there were little needle movers thing did what Tiger did. I don't know if it'll ever be done again. I mean I saw it.
And it was timing of that as well. I mean it was just at the exact right time.
Yeah, him doing I remember doing contracts before Tiger shows up and they would we'll call it a dollar. The contract was a dollar. Tiger shows up and I was doing contracts for the same people for ten dollars, and I didn't get better than negotiating. The market rose. It just went up and up and up and tv and and I think, Okay, they got drunk on it. Man, they got drunk on growth, and it just wasn't going
to grow anymore. I think Tiger's effect of growth on the tour slowed down somewhere around two thousand and nine or ten. I think it leveled off. I didn't think that's what Walter's Charpe says.
Well, there was the crash in eight too, right, there was the market.
Well there were there were two crashes, but we won't go there. I'll let it. I'll let people figure out the other crash.
Oh really, you do that to me.
Well, Tiger had a crash that crashed, and that did that, and then the market crash. Yeah, and that certainly. Look and look, Tiger's a great guy. Don't take that. I'm not hitting him. Life is like a lot of things going out there that you know that are normal human life. But yeah, but I think they got drunk, because how's it going to grow. Why does it need to grow? Why don't it's just Why don't it just exist? Why
does everything have to grow? Was is it not enough to win a million dollars if you win a golf terment, Well you gotta win one point three? I mean, you know, and people, these guys are not going to go get jobs if purses come down. They're not going to quit and go get an insurance job. They're not gonna come do what I do. I mean, they're going to do what they do and they'll get paid. Like, my income is gone down, just like Tiger's effect is gone down.
Contracts have gone back down. And I keep saying this. I watched it. I mean there was a berth there between ninety eight and two thousand and seven. I mean there was money in this game. I mean you want to negotiate a contract. It was out there and it was unbelievable the amount of money people were making. But it stopped. I mean it slowed down, and it slowed down to a point now to levels that I don't I'm not comfortable with at all, right, And I don't
think the tour knows that. I think they're trying to go up sustainability is a big thing, right, and that's my concern with it. Can they sustain this thing? They don't. There's not another Tiger. We were talking about the other day. When Tiger was playing on TV, they showed him do everything, get a drink of water, you know, scratch himself. It didn't matter. The camera was on Tiger and it was great.
And now Scotti Scheffler, I mean, who was having a Tiger like career right now and they are doing the same thing. Here's Scotty Scheffer for par from four inches. Well that's not Tiger. They don't don't show a Scotty Scheffer making four inch, but show me somebody else. TV kind of got locked in, well here's our next big star. We'll show you him to do everything. People don't care.
And I hear it all the time, and I think it was either I don't know who came out with this, but it's hard to pick those players apart out there now. I mean, they all look very similar. It's you know, it's it's it's mind boggling. But there's not much personality on the PGA tour now. It's just kind of I'm not saying robotic, but getting there. And I think what people don't realize is the PGA Tour is an entertainment product. It is not a major. Maybe they're Players Championship. I've
always considered a major. The Players Championship probably the best one of the best field in golf. It's hard to be a major. So there's four majors. Are the majors, right? But every thing other than the Players Championship is an entertainment property. It's not a major. It should pay like one. As I said, I think most people would play majors without a paycheck. It's that has that much thing. So I don't know why they worry about keeping up with purse.
When a major changes your life, it.
Does, and I mean you become a major winner, and that's a big thing, a big thing in life. But yeah, I think, and again I think that's up to the PGA Tour to figure out that, hey, we're not the Masters and we're not the Open. We're an entertainment property, and these entertainment properties the pro You know, the last four years, I'm not sure the PGA Tour has done anything to try to create a better product for the consumer.
It looks like me they've done everything trying to save their jobs and protect, you know, protect something that I don't know. And that sounds bad, but it's just it just looks true because the product hasn't changed. And one of the things we'll go back to TGL thing. One of the things I love is that Marty guy. I'm sorry I keep remembers last night. I should, but Scott van Pelt. I mean having them announce, I mean, yeah, oh that's fun. And obviously I loved Jim Natz, but
some of the other people they put out there. I mean, there's a guy named John McGinnis that used to play the tour. I'd have him on the sixteenth Tower. I mean, he's smart and funny as you can make him. I would. I would stretch the envelope of who I would put in these towers. Get some guys like the Gary McCords used to be. I want to hear have some fun. I mean, I know what I know, he pulled it left. I can see that on TV. But give me something like you know. That's why I love your Pin Tour.
Your Pin Tour announcers are absolutely and that's what I'm saying, but they've gone. They seem to get guys that are good at golf, like Faldough, great record, but come on, I mean, not that entertaining. You know, Johnny Miller was entertaining. Paul Aisinger was entertaining, you know. I I mean because they're not scared. They'll tell you what they think, right. And I'm not saying Nick wouldn't, I'm not. But but again, the product that you're giving to your consumer is so
important when you're an entertainment product. And that's what the tour is.
And yeah, we've had Barney Adams multiple times come on and say, listen, the PGA Tour is a TV show. Yeah, start there.
Stark there, there's I don't need the Savannah bananas. Savannah bananas, I don't love them. My daughter lives just down the street from the stadium, and I haven't met this Jesse guy. I want to so bad because I watched his his I don't know podcast, Ted talks wherever he does and he goes. You know, what we did was created something that people wanted to see first and work backwards. That's a really funny op know. I'm thinking, Wow, you know, what if people really want to see at a professional
golf event? What if we went and found that out and then gave that to him and then work backwards instead of Okay, this is what you're gonna do. You're gonna watch the top fifty players and they're gonna play for some scene amount of money and don't get close to them, don't talk, get behind the ropes and watch them playing there all this money, and then we're all gonna make a bunch of money. Thanks for coming. Not
how I would create an entertainment product. I think this should call Jesse and say, man, what do you think we should do? And maybe it's not as cooped up as that is, but I'll tell you one thing. They sell out every major league stadium and they go to sell it.
Out and now they're right and they're doing tours now. I mean next time they have caught on they sold Boston. Thank you YouTube.
Okay, And if you go to Savannah and you want to go buy a ticket, well good luck. They're priced out for years. Wow years. Great and Becaus is a fun entertainment product. And I'm not going to associate that with live. They're not Savannah Bananas, but they are different. They are showing you incredible talent. It's incredible God. But the product is different. There's music, it's got a little more task to it. And and again.
I can't see any golf product being irreverent. And I think that's the thing about the Savannah Bananas. Is there irreverence. And and they're not flipping their nose at Major League Baseball. They're just saying, Hey, we're just out here to have a good time. This is fun. We're just gonna be silly about that. And I promise I can't see live doing that. I can't see, you know, maybe TGL. I mean the fact that they have on TGL. They have all these guys miked up and you can hear them
the banter and you hear them. Hopefully we'll see a competitive match soon instead of these blowouts both of them first two.
Yeah, that's crazy. That's that is. It's a momentum game, I guess. Well, but anyway, I think there's just a lot I think Panavidro the PG Tours got a lot of they got a little lot of soul searching the figure out really what do they have right? And when Tiger showed up, they really looked like they were good at what they were doing. And it's kind of what I do for a living managing golfer. When when Davis Love or Justin Leonard Wrenning majors, I was an incredible negotiator,
you have no idea. But when guys start missing cuts and you know, finishing one hundredth on the money list, you know, my negotiating skills go out the window. And and it's kind of like a caddie. You know how great a caddy is, well, got a lot to do, how good that guy is playing? All right? And so that's just you know, like I say, I'm hoping hoping that you know, the PGA Tour, because that's where a majority of my clients play. They figure it out and
pulling for him. But I don't have any saying that, and so I'm just I'm a lot of a lot of hoping right now.
Moments ago you talked about how they the TV and the PGA Tour, they followed Tigers every single move, but they missed one in twenty twelve, twenty four that I think, I think is what happened. I have my own personal rule of when you're playing with your buddies and you're on a par three, nobody's supposed to be going up against a tree and peeing with their back to your shot. Because the only time I had a hole in one, my friend was my friend missed the whole thing because
he was pink. So I think when Charlie hit the hole in one at the PNC in twenty twenty four and the Tiger wasn't there, it wasn't the PNC at that point, it was p and and didn't see. I personally think tiger was in the bathroom and he missed the whole thing.
My gosh, you never think about the rule is you can't relieve yourself on part three? It's par four. No never ever, that's a really good idea. Yeah, I gotta tell you, I it's fun watching that. I again, I agree with you Charlie, the ability to have the expectations that are on him already just because who his dad is, Because you know, I watched Drew Love, you know, and Bill Haas and Jack Nicholas, you know, Junior or Gary Nicholas.
I mean playing against immortal fathers with that kind of expectations. And I tell people expectations probably ruined more careers than anything, And it's why people get the yips from two feet and not nine feet. You don't get the yips from nine feet because you don't expect to make everybody Charlie. I mean, the ability to go out in front of crowds pull it off with that kind of expectations. And
maybe he doesn't have him maybe he knows that. You know, I'm probably not going to be as good as my dad, and if he is, it'd be great. I mean, who's going to be as good as that? But you're exactly right, I that is a fun thing to watch. I love watching Onnica play with hers Lin and you know, and Trevino. I man, if.
They Bernhard's wanted six years.
Now, golly well, I just want to know his diet. I want to know what he drinks. I want everybody said they should just put that out. He should sell whatever he does. But yeah, I you know, look, if Trevino played in every tgo match, the amount of people what he's still that funny, that talented that. I mean, there should be more of those people and that that's one of the scary things right now that I see in goth Is. I represent this kid named Julia and
Perico from Peru. He's his close stop scene to Lee Trevino, A viny bodyers saying it's got a different swing. I mean powerful, big kid. But we'll talk to you why he's swinging, has no regard for not having fun. It's is if he ever remember the name, if he hits, if he wins something big, he'll be He'll be as big as Ricky Fowler. He has got that kind of personality. And that really has concerns me is that. I know it's a serious game and they've got to pay attention.
But but man, I mean there's there's a lot a lot of clones out there. They look exactly the same, but that's gonna say. When these are kids and watching their parents play with their kids, they're different. I mean they act different, right, all of them. I mean, Honka was serious, I thought play it, but she's having fun with her son. You can see that it's fun for her.
And I know Mike, her husband, who is just a great guy and he but yeah, I think maybe every event doesn't have to be the same on the PGA tour, maybe sometimes we could do some different things. But again, they've got control of that product. They just take all they just take a billion and a half dollars investment and we'll see what they do with it. But I hope they created an incredible product because I certainly wouldn't mind sponsors start coming out of the woodwork again like they used to.
Yeah, golf, parody in golf is what golf is. It's parody. It's not like, you know, you have a dominant figure or anything. But when someone like Tiger comes along and breaks that like Scotti Scheffler did, right, you know, it changes everything and draws attention to it.
Yeah, you know.
It's it's like teams that dominate create passion on both sides. Like look at look at how the Yankees. People love to hate the Yankees.
You're not gonna hate Scotty Scheffler. Probably one of the nicest guys on earth, and him getting arrested was private.
But no one's going to copy Scotty Scheffler. Who's going to be copying with Scotty Scheffler. I mean basketball, everyone's trying to be Steph Curry now at every age they're shooting three pointers. And he changed the game, but nobody's I can't imagine that. He's just gonna go, all right, here's going to do with your feet todays? Right, He's he's unique, well, and but he's succeeding. That's what's so interesting, because that doesn't happen on the tour.
A really funny thing is that his teacher is the teacher that taught Justin Leonard, Randy Smith down in Texas, probably one of the most I mean, I mean, but Charmond Well, I will always say he's the best teacher, Randy Smith. He should be the second most famous teacher in the world. He taught Justin Leonard, Harrison Fraser, and it goes on and on, Gary Woodland. But I'll just but Randy Smith is an instructor that taught Justin Leonard. If you've ever seen him, I mean, justin swing is
the opposite of Scotti Scheffer. Justin was in complete balance, I mean, sturdy as you could be and Scotty and but that's what I call a great instructor is he didn't get in their way of being them. We talked earlier, you and I before we get on here about swing. Your swing. It'll hold up. Your swing will hold up under pressure. If it's your swing. It may not be good enough to win a club championship, but it's your swing. It's the people that try to create another swing that
that's not the who they are. Scotty Scheffer's swing is not going to break down under pressure because that's his swing. Justin's does not breakdown. And when you see people starting to tinker in their golf swing and change what they are, that's when they start breaking down under pressure, right. But yeah, I mean nobody's gonna copy. Nobody copies Jack Nicholas's putting stock. I mean, the best, one of the best putters ever
under pressure. And you think you would see one guy out there that just I'm gonna do it like Jack? But yeah, but again, I remember in the eighties or seventies, who's the next Nicholas. I remember that it was going to be Bobby Clampitt, it was gonna be Gary Hallberg, it was gonna be John Cook. I mean, how many next Nicholases did they point out? Right, some of us cause of their hair color some of it, But whoever
dominated at that point. Bobby Clampitt was so good and and Gary Halberg I think that might have been one of the greatest classes ever seventy nine if you go back and look, if you go that far back, I'm agent myself. But and who's the next Nicholas, And there was not a next Nicholas. It wasn't going to be, but one popped up. But it was a lot later than they ever dreamed. So maybe in another fifteen years somebody shows up. I don't think so. And I'll tell
you why. The training these kids are getting now from around the world from an early age, we got track man's, we got spin rates, we got it. Used to be only the tour players had had access to all those things. They had access to the best clubs, the best shafts, the best you know. Now anyone can have the same stuff done. Clubs built exactly to spects. So they're learning
a lot quicker and a lot earlier. So talent wise, like physically hitting a golf ball, there's millions of more people to have the ability to play pro golf, right So, and I have a T shirt that is actually being printed now because and I say that because people ask me what is it that separates them? And I go, mind,
heart and balls, and I don't mean golf balls. And because all of them can hit it a long way, all of them can dial their irons in and their wedge distances in with track Man or you know, those things, But who can handle the pressure, who can handle the expectations, you know, who can handle all the things that go in winning. And that's where you're going to see a separation. I don't know Tiger's dad with Special Forces. I use two former Navy seals to help performance of our clients
because that's about what they're doing out there. So the next that's the only training method. It's left is mental training and mental training GOP is. You know, the time people see a psychiatrist or a sports psychiatrist, if there's a such thing, is when they have a problem, right, and so so it's it's going to be to create an entertaining product, you're going to have to have an entertaining person, entertainer. People are going to have to be authentic,
and you know, can it happen? I don't know, I don't know. I don't know.
One of the things that I wrote down that I wanted to talk about with you was to recap twenty twenty four. But we've kind of been doing that all the way through. But what did we learn in twenty twenty four that we can bring to twenty twenty five and take advantage of.
Take advantage of I think we've learned that the viewership, the viewing god viewing viewership in the world is kind of tired of hearing about money. I think we can stop that. I think I think we can learn that we can all get along. I think you saw at the PGA Championship that rips Kepta and Bryce and de Chambeau and these guys can get along with each other.
They're fine, It's going to be okay. They chose different paths, and I'm hoping we learned that maybe this should happen across the board, because I'll tell you right now, if I owned a tour and I could have the opportunity to have the personalities that play on play a few of my events, I'd want them out there. So I hope we've learned that. Maybe from the PGA Championship we learned that, and we'll learn it from the Masters.
Well, you and I have proven that we can just talk for a long time together. We get into topics and you always seem to have a response, which is so much fun for me, and I really appreciate you you sharing that time. But it's golf. Smart is not the only place that you're making your regular appearances to discuss these things. You have a radio show.
Well, yeah, well Lucas Glover has a radio show, and okay, and Scott Greenstein from ser S XM, since he won the Open and US Opening nine in New York, has tried to get him to do it. And the producer Taylor's other he did a show with Dale Junior, Daryl Arnhardt Jr. And his manager a podcast, and so it was kind of like, Okay, why don't we have Lucas and his manager do it. So I'm kind of a co host or kind of a subn or an Ed
McMahon type figure. So we get on there spoil. Yeah, And I mean Lucas, like I said, Lucas is a smart cat, and he's fun and we're obviously terrific friends. We've been together for a long time and and and everybody, like I said I mentioned earlier, I'm kind of the Joe Rogan of goth I like to go on rats about stuff. And it doesn't mean I'm right, and I'm not concerned if I am or not, but it's just what I think. At my age, I get to do that. And we even have a segment called old Man, Get
Off My Lawn. And I get and we both rent, but it's kind of set up for me to go at it and say things that, you know, the way I see them. I get lots of messages people that agree with me, and I get a lot of messages don't agree with me, and neither one cares. I could carry the wise because I'm not being I'm not being mean. I'm just being honest about what I think. So it's fun. We love it. It's it's a lot of fun.
How long you've been doing with him?
We started last year, So I'm trying to think our first show it was is it weekly?
Is it it's.
Getting more weekly? Yeah, we did the first with as many and it was kind of did Lucas like it? And and uh and and in reality, I mean, there was some methods to the madness. Lucas I think would be one of the best TV broadcasters ever because he is smart, and he's witty, very he's a very funny guy. But he's an honest guy. He's authentic and a little bit it was to see how he liked being in front of that microphone and.
Well, he's not really animated, he's at least not on the microphone because I heard the I heard the series that on him that Matchanella did. I've heard it multiple times.
He's no, he's getting more amped up. He he good, he's amped I mean, it's just like live, it's gonna take some time, it's gonna he's getting more comfortable. He's an incredible interviewer. We have guests on and he interviews him and it's fun to do him ask questions and I mean he yeah, and he's and you know, he does research and stuff and so it's not just like he's just not guessing on it. But he has really
enjoyed it. And I have too. I mean, I mean he's, like I said, he's of my best friends in the world. And I love hanging out with him, listening with him, and we have dinner most of the time for together, and so yeah, I've enjoyed it. I don't know if I'm hurting him more helping him, but you know, we'll say they kicked me off, will know I was hurting.
Listen. If you're getting emails, if you're getting you know, messages from listeners, good or bad, you're engaging. Yeah, right, that means that they they have some passion about absolutely, trust me.
I know, I know it's good in bad publicity, right.
Right, right, exactly exactly. You mentioned to me also before we started recording, that you're writing a book. Yeah, well, let's talk about that.
If anybody knows me, they know I've been writing it forever. I mean, I'd probably spouted out so long they're probably tired of me. Yeah, I I've got a lot in me, as you know talking to me. My dad was, you know, played some pro baseball and became a minister in the United or formerly United Methodist Church. And they're not united anymore. But my dad, and he was a Buddha to me. He taught me life. He taught me to the point that I went to the same undergrade college at High
Point University he did. And my dad went so late that that I actually studied the theology under the same professors he did.
Wow.
And and the big joke was that, you know, one time I called my dad and said that, you know, I'm thinking about maybe following his footsteps. I loved what he did, you know. And and he after he quit laughing and got up off the floor. Because I was not known to go inside of those buildings that have altars and pews and organs. I won't call them churches. But but I just that didn't appeal to me. But I did appeal to my dad's way of life. And when he said it, he said, son, I'm not a preacher.
I'm a minister, and and minister means to serve, and you can serve from anywhere, so don't. And my last conversation with my dad in two thousand and eight, a few weeks before he passed away suddenly was he looked at me, he said, you became a minister, Bud. And I was like, really, and he goes, yeah, you remember you used to tell me No one comes to my house to tell me how things are going great. They
only call me when there's a problem. And he goes, and being around you when you answer the phone, you not many clients call you and say, hey, I just want to let you know I'm playing great. Life is wonderful, and something's happened. And I looked at him and I said, I really did become a missioner, and.
So that's pretty powerful exchange.
Yeah, and with your dad. So I've never been like anyone else in this business. I didn't. I don't do it for money. I'm not. I don't care about that part of it. I really care about these young men and women that I get to represent and try to help them through life, not just through God. They know what to do on the golf course, it's all the other things. And most of them have never had a job. Most of them played golf since they were four. They're
insulated to life. And what people don't realize on the outside is they go through everything that all of us go through. They go through deaths and the families and divorces and the highest highs and the lowest lows, and I'm usually get to be a part of all of them. I'm the ABC Sports you know that thrill of victory and agony of defeat. You know, I get it all.
And I've enjoyed the contrast of that. I've been through some incredibly great things, and I've been through some things that I don't so tragic that I never want to go through again. And so through what my dad taught me and then what I've always had this way of relating goth and life, and every lesson in life and every lesson in God are almost parallel. And everything you got to do to be a good golfer. You've got to do to live a good life. I mean, you've
got to be dedicated, you've got to be consistent. You've got to be religious. And I don't mean religious in a sense of religious like of a Christianity or Buddhism. I'm talking about religiously do things. I mean most of us religiously brush our teeth right, But when you're going to be great at something, you've got to do certain things religiously. I mean you've got to get up and do things and be committed. And so I've always had all these disciplined Yeah, all these stories that I relate
to God. I told you one about Justin Leonard that taught me something that's life. And so I have been putting them together forever, forever and never, and just recently what I needed was a title. I know that sounds kooky. And Michael Bamberger who told me that everyone has a book in them and that's where they shug remain. And I hope Michael's not mad at me for not letting
keeping mind inside. But these stories that it's like a motivational book, but it has to have GoF involved because that's what I'm known for I'm known from my experience of thirty four years in goth and behind the doors and knowing things, and someone finally came up. The title of the book is going to be called Parts for GoF because I've got a good buddy that calls me parts and he's the one that tells me, man, would you write your book? Would you just write your book?
And it's really what it is. It's par for God. There's just it's the par of par for par for the course. And my parts for the course is kind of like telling you life is everything that happens is par for the course. I mean, people will tell you I've got a misstic connection and had to spend the night in a hotel as I did last night, I mean in the airport, and that's just par for the course. That's what life is. And what we try to teach our guys is that you know the outcome of life.
We know the outcome, We know where this ends, right, And you know when you travel on a highway that you could get caught in a traffic jam. You know that when your caddy gives you a club, you could be the wrong club. You could hit it in the water. These are all outcomes of your life. Why do they call so much anxiety and so much anger? You should already be accustomed to the outcomes that are possible with anything you pursue. So if you fly on a public airline,
expect cancelations and delays and misconnections. Don't let it bother you. Just move through it. And that's the journey. And that is the contrast. So long answer to your thing, I finally have got them pretty much all compiled at an editor and I'm going to pop it out there and it might sell ten books. I didn't really, I'm not writing it to sell it, as those people tell me. I'm writing it to get it out of me so I can quit thinking about it.
So that's interesting.
We'll see.
So I'm sure that you have an office where you live, but you're not in it now. You're in a hotel room. Give me an overview of what your life is like. Your schedule is like during the golf season or is it twelve months a year like that?
It's pretty much twelve months a year. Well, I am very lucky. I am really fortunate. I'm in I mean catch on Idaho, Sun Valley, Idaho. I snowboard. I snowboard religiously. It is my that is my passionate life is I snowboard every moment I can, the mountains right behind me. Here. I base in the winter in Idaho. And as I said, I flew from Monday. I flew to the American Express as I would if I wherever I was, I would be there Funday and I leave Thursday. That's I go
to the terminal Monday and come home Thursday. Once they start playing, I'm out of there. They've got their job to do. So I base here in Idaho. I am very fortunate. I've got a great base in friends here. Otherwise I'm in St. Simon's Island, Georgia, which is another incredible resort. So I'm so I base there. But if I'm not in the office, which if everybody knows, I really don't have an office. I have people that have offices. I usually just set in one of their offices because
my phone is my office. And but I travel to tour events, quite a few tour events. Because I've got players on the PGA Tour, I've got players on the LIB Tour, I got players on the Cornfrair Tour. I have players on the Challenge Tour, on the DP World Tour, on the Asian Tour. Now, I have partners that live in Europe that handle most of those over there. I've got partners right now in Dubai at that tournament, and
I have partners that will be at San Diego. So someone in my company will be on site pretty much every event. Not you know, it's like anything else, it's just it's your they're your they're your clients, and they're your friends, and you want to be there some and catch on what's going on. And we've you know, there's several of us in this company, so we don't all have to travel every week. But so about every third or fourth week, I'm out on a tour event until
until Florida. As Greg Norman says, the tour starts in Florida. Coming to Florida, I'm I'm at five out of six events a week. And why is that? Because we're building up to Augusta and when the Masters happens. When you go to the Masters, that's what kicks it off. And you've already kind of laid ground work for your clients, You've got the stuff done, and then at the Masters, everyone that's involved in golf. Well, if it's every corporation, we'll be there. So that's when you have to be there.
So you know, it's like you're conspicuous by your absence. You have to be at these events. And so that's pretty much my life is like throughout the year, I'm never working and I'm never on vacation and people I have had people go, he's all screwing off in the mountains. And now I've been on the phone all day doing my job. And if i can sneak out and snowboard
for a few hours, absolutely I do. And if I'm at home with Saint Simon's, everybody knows you'll see me on the back of the range at Frederica, you know, hitting swinging in silly golf swing and trying to hit golf balls. It's kind of my man yoga. It's the greatest job and it's the worst job. And when I speak at sports marketing classes, I write on the board
everybody wants the job they think I have. You know, you better love it because you know I'm sleeping on floors in the airport sometimes to get back and again ninety percent of the time, if a client's calling me is not calling me to tell me how good things are. Something's happened, right, and and but again, I you know, that's what I'm here for, right, I'm here. And if it's not them, it could be a spouse. If it's
not a spouse, it could be a parent. And I'm there for all of them because it takes a village to raise a pro goffers. I tell them.
I just had a schedule to call today to talk to a young man who's at Carlton College and he he wants to be in the sports business, and because he's a huge sports fan, and I'm telling him, well, wait a minute, I wanted this conversation. It's like, do you love sports, Because if you love sports, be a fan. If you love the sports business, then we can have
this conversation. Absolutely, it's a very different thing because if you're a fan and you start working in it, you're gonna end up hating the sport because of the amount of hours and the little pay that you're going to make doing.
That, and a lot of pro goffers in it. That way, it becomes a job and you don't see him small anymore, And you know, it's sad. I hate to see it when it becomes a job that these guys. Hey, look, I have people, honestly that think, you know that I'm not working, and because I enjoy it so much, I'm having fun. I even, you know, sometimes I'm like a duck in my feet or kicking under into the water like crazy. But I'm not going to let you know it.
And but I've made you know. As I said, I've always told people that if you don't love your job enough to where people can't tell when you're working and when you're not, you're probably in the wrong job. And I got lucky. I you know, it's all luck. I had no intention in college of doing this. I turned out to be okay at it, and you know, and then I've built around it. I love the snowboard. Well guess when GoF has least played in the winter time.
You know, Christmas is my favorite time. I'm going to get five or six days that no one's going to bother me except maybe wish me happy Merry Christmas, and I'd get my kids out and we go hang out, and I get that moment. But my have I answered a phone call from a client on every day of the year before absolutely, Christmas Day, New Year's Day, three in the morning, absolutely in its own and it will stay on when I'm snowboarding. If you call me and your name, because it tells me who's on the phone.
If it's somebody I want to talk to, I answered down on to where everyone's slope and talk to him. What do you need or not? Or I get or I'm known to get on the gondola and write an email or send a proposal and get off snowboard and come back do it again. So I tell everyone. Look, I know I'm lucky in the since I get to do that. But you know, but I tell anybody, whatever you're doing, try to make it to where they can't
tell you're working. If not, get do something else. But I know a lot of people that have jobs just to make the money, and I you know, that's that's okay. But I mean, yeah, I mean it doesn't. It doesn't appeal to me. I don't. I certainly don't. I have a lot. You can imagine how many people call me and want to get into my business. I mean, I've had surgeons call me that want to get out of surgery, and I'm like, man, you know you're really good at that.
I think what I do would drive ninety percent of the people in the world crazy because I'm never off and Friday nights at seven or but I don't want to be. These are my clients. I signed up for this. I don't sign people I don't like either, So people goes, why do you have to have dinner with these guys? I want to see how they treat their waiters and there's water people, because you know I'm going to be serving them too. I want to see how they treat
people at serve them. But you know that's the other thing about golf. I mean, you know this, friend, ninety nine percent of people in golf are great people. They're fun, they're different. Some of them are nicer than others. But golf tracks really cool people.
Well, you want to talk about lucky, I would have to say that I am incredibly lucky because you cross my path. I feel I just enjoy so much. You know, we record for over an hour, but we talk a lot more than that, and I really appreciate your time.
Then thank you man, Thanks so much for having me out. You're the best. I appreciated