OWN YOUR GAME! 2 full episodes with Dave Stockton

Senior Open. Later, he went on to become one of the most sought after short game instructors in the world. So in this episode we tried something different as it was two complete episodes in one conversation that was presented at one time to Golf Smarter members behind our paywall and has never been shared publicly before. I know you'll agree with me that there's a lot of really helpful

insights and instruction from one of the best. So here's Golf Smarter episode's number four hundred thirty and four hundred and thirty one from April one, twenty fourteen.

PGA Atkiwa where I saw in the leak before. And he had a terrible year so far, up and down. He wasn't consistent, he hadn't defended a US opened very well at the Olympic Club in San Francisco and miss and cuts. As we were leaving Actor in the week before and I said, I want you to do me a favor, and he looked right at me, which he always does, and I said to him, I am getting really tired of turning on a TV and telling whether

you burdied or both be the last hole. And I don't know why you're giving your opponents an opportunity to get you. I said, you got to forget the bad shots, and he did.

But when I started doing this show, my thought was that if you have a strong mental game and you understand strategy, you're going to lower your scores a lot faster than if you were just trying to work on your swing mechanics.

I mean, you can be fifty foot away from somebody and you can tell exactly when they make their decision to hit a shot or if they changed their mind. You can you can literally read it and know immediately this person is not not confident, or this person is not hasn't pictured what they're trying to do. It blows you away. I mean, she was a psychologist that I used at the Ryder Cup at Kiowa and in ninety one to profile my players so i'd get them to play better.

But I but there were parts of it, like I was even while I was reading it, and we'll get into this when we do the interview, but there were two paragraphs in there that I said to my wife, I said, I can do at least a half hour on just these two paragraphs alone, right, because the nuance of what you were talking about, and I'm not going to tell you what it is because we'll do it during the show, but the nuance was like, we can pick into that so much, and I'd have so many

questions about that. So yeah, I love that kind of stuff. To me, that's what makes the most sense.

good chippers. So we did the Chipping book, and as I'm doing that, I'm coming to realize this last book and on your Game is basically the most important one, because if I have somebody really good that I'm going to get paid to have them played better, I am literally going to have them call Debra and have him take her test because I want to find out and I want them to see how, you know, how mentally they're weak in different places and it makes all the difference in the world.

way that person plays golf. Sure, yeah, I thought that was absolutely fascinating and really valuable.

The way the way he had it, so it was fascinating.

the ball. The hole on eleven, because immediately you're looking to see what the trees behind twelve are doing, because once you get up on the twelfth p it's blocked by a giant grand stan of people and you really can't tell. So you're automatically already starting to think about the next hole. You're shetting, and as a good golfer will do, or most of the time, you know the eleventh hole is buying you anyway, so you might will start getting your mind and your routine ready to go on

the next one. It's not and it's not just your physical routine. And for me, the metal side.

you can't tell. And you know, so many people are affected by the next shot they're going to hit or the last shot they did hit that they're you know, they're not getting the whole idea, they're not getting the whole thing that could make it an easy day for them. They just have these series of blips that I don't they're not conscious of, and they don't they don't gain the perspective you know, when we all have when we

have our days, we all play good. It happens so so easily that there's not a whole lot of thought, and then all of a sudden you get going bad. And if you don't have the wherewithal the get get it behind you and get get it turned around. Uh, you're in trouble. I mean, one of the things I asked when I'm working with people, I said, Okay, if you're only going to be given six one puts today, what is your reaction when you're over the first twelve

holes and you make one? I'm thirteen so now, but you don't know you're going to make the next five no matter if they're two foot or fifty, you're going to make all of them. What was your reaction? Was it? Well, I'm a that that figures I've getting that I found an acorn or you know, something kind of negative and said instead of being in meaning it saying oh boy, here we go. Now I got it, Here we go

and it's I don't know it. To me, it's fun and I'm glad to hear you, you know, talk about what you're doing out there, because you're you've tapped to exactly what I think is the key to having people play a lot better, a lot faster, and much easier on themselves.

And then January' is the PGA champion. Heat's off. Everybody roars. It's my turn. And as January hits, I'm looking at my feet and my toes are just bouncing up down because I'm nervous as heck. But uh, and I'm heavy enough. I looked at my my shoes aren't moving. I'm going that's good. Nobody can tell I'm petrified. So I get my ball, stays on the tee. I give it a whack right down the middle, and I grabbed the tea and I'm not a foot away from have to grabbing

my tea on a dead run to catch Arnold. I hear this voice, goes son Son and basically it's January and asked me. He said, what do you see out there? And I said, well, I see twenty thousand people. He said, no, no, no, watch Arnold. Arnold's now got us by fifty yards because January walks really slow. And he said, I just want to let you know that you have a problem today.

And I said, what's that. He says, well, now Arnold's almost to where my ball is, and they're both like forty yards behind and pass me, and he says, you notice how far we're by you. I said, yes, sir, And he says, well, we're going to do that all day except when we can't putt like you, so we're going to be even. He said, but the problem you have.

And now now Palmer's at his ball looking back at us, and we're still fifty yards for me to get to my ball, taking these little bitty steps, and he he looks to me, he says, you know the problem you have is if you go Arnold's pace, this is my pace. We're walking right now, and you're going to see me walking up your backside all day. And he said, but on the other side, Arnold can't hit till you hit Kenny. And I said no, sir. He said, well, you go my face and it's going to be very difficult on

mister Palmer today. And I go, that's different. And so the second and we all parted. One. We go to the second hall and I can't walk that slow. In fact, I was sore and taking a little step. So I went to the left. Then I crossed to the right and there was nobody there, but I just made this big X and I came back to my ball. January walked by and he winked at me, and so we all parted the second. The third hole is a part

of three. I only walked to one side and the fourth hole of my wife Kathy walks up and she says, what are you doing? And I said well, and I pulled her under the rose, put my arm around her, and I said, mister January said this about you know my pace of play. He knows I play fast, he knows I don't take practice swings, and he said, and he just said that I'm going to get derailed by him walking out of my backside, and I ought to

think about my pace of play. I had never in two and a half years or two years on tour, I ever thought about playing slower faster. And consequently she said, what sounds like I'm a good idea to me. I'm on the eighteenth tee, I am. I walked twenty miles, I am dead tired. I'm five under for the day and I've picked up five shots on Palmer. I'm within two shots he Birdi's the last hole to win the tournament.

I finished fourth, and I really learned something well. I passed the same same thing on to McElroy insomuch as when he blew the Masters, and I met him three weeks later for the first time because his caddie wanted me to work with him. And his opening question to me at Charlotte, my son Ronnie was with me. He says, what what do you What did you see me at the Masters? And I said yeah, he said, what'd you think?

I said, I thought you had a terrible pairing and he looks at me like I had four eyes you know, I said, well, I saw you pair with Cabrera, and Cabret is the world's nicest guy, but unfortunately he plays just as fast as you. And I said, you ask me what I saw. I saw two guys that played stand around and wait and wait, and it was their turn to hit. They hurt. They hit really fast because you're both fast players, and they'd walk fast. Now they got to stand around there and wait and wait to

wait again. And basically I said, you had no rhythm. I mean it was almost you should have realized that you were the last ones out and nobody you know, you can't. You can't go through the in front of you, so you might as well just take your time. Well, he bought into that. We looked at his putting physically.

There was nothing wrong. In fact, he had great routine and stuff as far as the physical part of it, and I see him it wentworth three weeks later in London and then comes up to Congressional where I won my second PGA, and that was the US Open, and again or the lesson lasted maybe a minute or two. Everything looked fine, so I wasn't going to tell him anything else. We'd go to the last round the seventh to ten toll. The part three, he had two hundred

yard shower. I'd be hitting the seven wood and he's hitting the seven aron hit at about six inches and then it gave him a five or six shot lead at that point. But the eleventh toll congressionals are really tough. Part four, water down the right, big trap on the left,

and Rory walked off. But within a minute he was back up on the green with his putter, just one putting with his left hand, no ball, just you know, making him looking or the eighteenth green, enjoying the people and his kame must have been there seven eight minutes since Caddy finally walked up. Whatstled at him? He went

back down. He hit the t shirt and I thought, this kid learns pretty fast, because he didn't want to stand down there on that tee like he did at the Masters, and stood there and let the pressure build. And so what would you know. It's a long answer to your question, but basically, that one thing that January did for me made me aware of the surroundings around me, whether I was going to play slower that day or

faster that day, and it changes. It's not anything consistent but you got to do something that's going to make you feel comfortable.

I'm here to tell you. I mean, I've I played golf too many years, over forty years on a two tour combined, and I have never seen anybody yet the normal routine is people slow down, I'll never forget watching Faldo beat beat Scott Holk and a playoff on ten in Augusta when Scott's got a two foot putt to win and he backed off and then came back in. I'm screaming at the TV because I knew he was

gonna miss him. Another one at the Masters with Ed Snead had a three shot lead with three holes to go, and all of a sudden it looked like his body had been taken over by an alien the last three because his routine went twice as long as what had been doing. And just because you want to throw a dart in the center of a bullseye, if I make you stand there and stare at this thing and slow down,

it isn't gonna work as good. He can't. And that's why what we call what we do the signature approach is first lesson whether you're your Michaelson or Mceilroy or the girl next door, I'm gonna have you sign your signature. There's no right or wrong way, but you're certainly going to have a reasonable pace to signing your own signature. Some people, like Billy Casper, would be very deliberate. Other people are going to be very very fast. Okay, but

you're gonna be comfortable with what you do. But now I'm gonna throw you out of your comfort zone because I'm gonna have you. I want you to give it to me again, only this time, I want you to look at your signature. I want you to picture what's there and right below it, I want you to duplicate that same signature. But you've got to do it slowly. You got no chance. I can't do the D and Dave. I can literally not do my first and if I

go slow, I can't do it. And that's because if it's something that should be in your subconscious and yet you try to do it. You can. If you practice and you hit a zillion balls, yeah, you get to a proficient level, but you'll never be great at what you're doing. And because it's a constantly changing thing. And so yeah, I mean I again. You'd have to watch you and say, Okay, what's the normal routine would Fred

feel comfortable with? And then I would want it to be slightly faster rather than slightly slower because when you take more time and I ask people, do you take practice strokes? Can you put red?

the ball, okay, not behind it. If you're gonna take a practice stroke, you should be at right angles to your line, looking straight over the ball toward the hole to feel what you're doing. If that's what you need to do, I have a hard time believing people need to do that. But a lot of people do it. But the ones that come up beside the ball parallel to it, take a couple of strokes, put the club behind the ball, look at the hall briefly, then look down,

set their feet. They're looking basically at the ball. And yet that'd be just the same amount as smart. So that would use to throw a dart at something. You're focusing on the number or the bullseye that you're going to try to put the dart into. You're not looking at your hand, and it literally blows me away that people. I mean, I'll the first thing I'll do is I'll

not let people take a practice stroke. Get up closer to the ball, set their right foot if their right hand is set their right foot, put the putter on the ground. Now look at the hole. Now set your feet, which means bringing your left foot up online and look at the hole. Get self comfortable. And I ask them, and I'm holding onto their head, I said, you see your line, You see where the ball's going in yep, Okay, I won't let them come back. I said, go ahead

and stroke it. You can't imagine how many times these people without even looking down at the ball, since they're looking out at the target, same thing they would be if they were throwing a dart. You cannot believe how fast these people improve. And that the other thing, like Hope missing that two footer to lose the masters. I mean, if he just set his right foot, put the club down, now, look at the hole and set his feet. There's no reason to ever think that this line's not right because

you line yourself up with your eyes. But if you take practice strokes and come in, there is all types of things that you go flying through your mind and keep you unsettled instead of being settled in what you're trying to do.

want to use is hit. I mean to me, if you tell me I'm going to try to hit this ball in the hole, that constant puts in my mind the thought of putting a nail against a wall and beating it with a hammer. Okay, I'm hitting that sucker right into the wall, whereas to me, putting would be like making a paint brush and making one stripe down the wall with a paintbrush. I want to feel. I want to feel the stroke. I don't want to hit it.

I want to feel the role. So we substitute roll for hit, and we substitute feel for try, and it makes a huge psychological difference.

a fade finish. All of a sudden, the club went through where the ball was without you thinking about it, and as much more natural, and you'll get much more you get a lot more power doing them.

highly important. How how important is why can't a quarterback throw a football off his foot as good as one is? They say he steps into it, or what's the most important thing on the free throw? It's the follow through. It's not our preparation before and how we take it back, but it's how good. Our follow through is that makes the thing have the correct line. So the follow through is really really important in golf.

It like one of one of the lines that I pulled from the book, it's not how you hit the shot, it's how you use your mind to picture them.

and you hit it. Oh well, the same next day you make him the same hole and drive it thirty yards further dead down the middle. The pin could be right in the middle of the green and your miss is about to occur. Because you're so proud of this fantastic t shot you hit that you don't give the picturing element to what the ball, what you're going to do to this ball. You did it really good when you're behind the tree, and it forced you to do it.

But are you smart enough in picturing the middle side of the game to be able to picture something when there's no obvious trouble the pins in the middle. It's the simple a shot. But in reality, you know, you gotta think, Okay, do I leave it short? If I don't make it, am I gonna leave it short or long? You know, I love to watch people practice on a range. So say we're in Texas and it's kind of a cloudy day and fluffy white clouds going through the sky. I mean, I'm trying to go over a cloud or

keep it under another one. I'm trying to do it all these things picturing, because that then I've got it. Most people go out to the rains. All they're doing is hitting the ball, and as soon as the ball struck they're reaching for the next ball, and they don't even watch the ball roll out, when in reality, when you practice, you should hit it and the ball goes up in the air, you should be holding your finish

until the ball's coming it starts its downward flight. Then you can cut in your club halfway and then once the ball hits the ground and you can trol your club and move on to the next shot. But you've had four or five seconds to pick up information about

what that shot you just hit. Whereas most people, I mean, how many, well do you watch it as soon as they hit the ball and they don't like it, they're reaching for the next ball, and that they don't learn anything from the last one, and pretty soon here that's a lot when you you'll go in cycles like the ocean waves come in, you get it for a while and then it leaves you. That's why you know when

you're out there practicing you do well in it. I would move on to something else, but you know, there's a lot to be said for the routines people used to practice, that's for sure.

me hit a wedge. But if he saw three shots come out and they're all high draws, he would say, let's see it, let's see a low fade, or let's see something else to make me do the imagery work to be able to picture the shot and feel it of the shot I was going to hit, rather than just one after another hitting the same shot. And we can get really good doing that on the range, but it ain't going to help you on the on the golf course because the range generally is dead at your

first shot. Now you got a ball three inches above your feet or below your feet, whatever it might be. And all that practice you warmed up, but all that practice didn't do you a whole heck of a lot of good because you weren't picturing stuff.

right side or left side? For starters? Okay, and how do you want the ball? It's the ball going to come You want to picture the line you want the ball to end, but is going to come in with a fade or a draw, all these different things that come into it. And if you do it right and you learn to do it, it just happens naturally. But you almost never ever have a shot you're not comfortable with hitting. Instead of the normal person gets up there and they see the shot and they go, oh, yeah, okay,

I can carry it over that water. I can do this, I can do that, but they don't picture. I mean, I had a guy last summer. They got up on a part three. There's a lake on the left. I'm going to say it's one hundred and eighty yards, and I knew right where this ball was going. He took two or three really good practice swings, and everything got up made of just a terrible swing at it. It barely didn't get it, almost didn't get to the water. I mean he had a maybe fifty yards something like that.

He said, they do me a favorite, hit me another ball, and so he gets the ball tea that starts to take practice and he said, no, I don't want to practice swing. I said, I want you to stand behind the ball and I want you to look at that pin. That's where you're aiming. And then he said, yeah, I'm aiming at the pin. I said, how do you see it getting to that pin? He said, well, I'm an aim It just left. I said, how am I just left?

He said, its full four or five feet. I said, see that trap, that's about fifteen yards left of it. I want you to aim right in the center of that bunker. And because I'm picturing you're gonna fade it that much, he hits a shot. He hit it. I'm going in the air. I say, action, we've made a hole in one. He said, though, and I said, well you may have us now. He put it about two and a half feet in the hole.

hit a nine air. I said, why don't you hit an eight? Depends right on the front of the green. I said, you got a little bit over one twenty five to the hall. He said, no, I can get a nine there. I said, now watch you and he says, no, I know I hit a nine. I said, I'll tell you what I'll do. I said, you take you hit an eight for me, and if you don't like it, then I'll let you hit the nine, get a free shot. He hold it. He hold it with the eight there and I said, okay, now you want to try the

nine for me and see if you can do? Is this is good? He was so excited, you know, But that's again it's you know, people, I don't want to just blindly spendions billions of hours hitting balls without you know,

jumping in. And that's why I was exciting to listen to you say you've had a lot of the psychological psychology type people out there that work on the middle side of this game, because I promise you and I'm dealing with a lot of pros and I'm talking about in the top fifty in the world on the Men's Tour in the top fifteen in the win on the LPG eight, and you end up working with them in their mental side. That's where they can make the biggest rides.

And if they can make the biggest strides there the average you know, it really jumps for the for the normal, you know, and a normal amateur doing that.

a delight. But you know, most of the people you get, you know, they're not wired that way. It just takes longer for them to be able to figure out. But I'm here to tell you that the caddies today are in better shape than the players were when I played.

I mean, I was working with McElroy last week down in West Palm Beach and we started nine o'clock and he got I had him bend down to line up this putt to go through his routine because I'm in at the other again, you cause you well can imagine now I'm not necessarily into watching what he you know, the mechanical aspect. I want to see his routine. Well, he goes to bend down. He had a hell of a time getting down. I said, what's the matter. He looked at me, he says, oh, he said, this is

one of my training mornings. He said, I started five forty five, so he had had two and a half hours of lifting weights and doing all this stuff. And then so we worked for two hours and go and to eat lunch, and I don't know, it's like a chicken wrap and the cottage cheese and fresh fruit. I mean,

you know, well I'm having a cheeseburger. You know, sees I wonder why this kid's in better shape than I am, you know, and they just I mean from the stretching to the I mean, it's it's amazing how they treat their body. I mean, in my day I'm a coach, could I drink around a golf course. Now they're you know, they're you know, they they they they treated like it's a million dollar business, which is exactly what it is. I mean when I played, I mean, you made a

lot of your money playing corporate outings. They're betting money on the side because the purses weren't that big, and these kids, it's well worth their time to invest in a turn and invest in all these other things. And you know, I'm lucky enough with a lot of people who've invested in having a short game coach.

And within nine months I had the other shoulder done, so I had both shoulders done, and we you know, I wasn't gonna sit still, so you know, it started with Michelle Lee briefly and then went to Michelson, and then the phone never stopped ringing. I mean, I looked here on the wall where I'm sitting, I'm looking at the Grand Slam in four years, two by Michelson, two by McElroy, and I got all four of the flags from the four majors. Wow, and Ronnie and Junior and myself.

We have one hundred and twenty wins and counting worldwide in four years. It's just, you know, it's it's mind boggling to me. You know how much success and how fast you can have it if you just give somebody a mental picture. I mean, I could list the guys. Michelson won. We worked with him Thursday and Friday, and he won the Tour Championship the next week. Michelle Wee we worked with her Thursday and Friday two weeks prior to that, and she went to Solheim Cup. In Chicago,

and she had an unbelievable time. Adam Scott, who Mickleson wanted me to help, thought he had the worst stroke in the world, won the very next week after David worked with him at the Players Championship using a short putter, by the way, and Justin Rose, I mean David Start helped him at Colonial. All he did was win two out of three and if he hadn't blown Hartford, he would have won three out of three. So it doesn't take that long. It's not and we're in the easy part,

let's face it. I mean the short game. You're moving the putter maybe a foot, so there's not at least your hands are only going afoot. It's a very simple thing to do, and you can be helping quite a few people at one time because you're not getting immersed in the long game.

was going to introduce me. He was another one of theirs. Five guys my dad, taw All went on tour. I was the only one that made it, but all five of us went out. And he started talking about Alex Morrison. Well, when I'm writing the first book with Matt Rudy, you know, I'm subconscious cutting I. He started talking about Alex Morrison. He said, well, yeah, he wrote a book. Well, my dad never let me read GoF books, so I wouldn't

know one than another. But he had a book in nineteen forty called Better Golf Without Practice, and it showed a guy sitting in an armchair thinking about what he wanted to do. He's sitting in a chair, no clubs in his hand, nothing, you know. And so Matt Rudi gets me an original copy of this book. But seventy years prior to this us writing the Putting book in seventy and I read the I look at the book. The long game is worth about two percent. That's how

much has changed the short game. I'd say it's ninety five percent viable. It explains why I use loft on a putter, explains why I ford press, explains why my left hands my direction hand. It explains why I put the putter ahead of the ball when I addressed the ball. All these different things that I learned in the late forties. That you know, something I went sixty some years, never never had change, never had well nineteen forty. This book's

out right. Tell me if there's something else that's been devised for the stroke in seventy years. I mean, the agronomy is better, okay, the grasses are much better, easier to put their smoother, no matter, you know, the clubs themselves, especially like the groove faces on the on the putters. Now you can just unbelievable, you know, bigger grips if you want it now, for softer feel with your hands,

all these things. But there's never been and there never will be, a new stroke developed because it's too individualistic and so for somebody for a teacher that says, Okay, I'm gonna teach all my students to put this way. I'm just gonna. I'm laughing. I mean, I was at the match play this year and I had Castagno from Spain. Gonzo he petted with the claw. I had Molinari, who's putting conventional. I had Stephen Gallagher who came and he just beaten McElroy a couple of months agoing to buy.

He was putting left hand low. And I had Kevin Stadler, who was using the long putter. I got five putters, I got five different types of strokes and everyone I'm successful. So to me, that says, and that's why we're successful is that we fit the people with what feels comfortable. Inn I mean, I'm watching Gallagher. He shot sixty two when he won and beat Macawy and third ground and she sixty two made everything, made ten birdies, and I'm

watching him. He's cross handed, and I'm going I know he wasn't cross handed here, So I go back in my phone and I pick it up and no, here he is putting conventional. So he came over U la open. I guess it was la and no, it was at Phoenix and so I'm there and I said to him, I said, what are you doing? He said, it's unbelievable because you explained the left hand led, and I just I had much better feel of it with the left hand being low. And I'm going, how cool was that?

I mean, that was really good. And well, you know If and Fred, they're all different. I mean, one of the biggest things. Usually I get the one eighty to two hundred putters, you know, in the ranking. A few years ago now, Matt Coocher came and he asked the three of us. We were doing an exhibition down at the Vintage, and he asked me if I'd look at his game or we would look at his game, and we said sure. I said, I don't understand why you

need to help you. All you did last year was you were leading money and you won the Barclays and you were fifth and putting, so there can't be that much wrong except he putted left hand low, and I know he flipped his hand, and so I asked him, I said, what's your direction?

And if stuff is left arm. By the next week, the putter came out behind his left arm, you know, and he's gone from two degrees a lot to eight degrees because he's ford pressed his hand and in the present styl of he uses now in what I'm trying to reiterate is again, it's not my method, it's what method makes you feel comfortable. And basically the parameters again are we We don't care. They They asked me if I think along putter or something should be banned and

all this stuff. He said, I don't care, you know, in my own opinion, because basically, I want you to visualize. No matter what your method is going to be, you got to be able to see what you're doing. But most people that do the mechanical method don't have a metal method. That's worth of darn.

long as they want. I don't care if they use a putter ten feet long, provided is not anchored to a body part that's not moving. I can see where Coocher. Probably a lot of people are gonna do like Coucher does, because's on your arm, it's susceptible to you know, making mistakes. But I personally just don't like the looks of the one on the chest. I mean, I'm you gotta understand where I came from. I came out of the when they made a ruling for one person person. That's one

of the most tournaments temporarily on our tour. Sam Snead, you know they outlawed his croquette because they look goofy. Well, I mean that they got under that saying you can't step across your line when your putts. And now, you know, I think sites that will may come back. I would think, I don't know, I mean, people are going to figure out a way to do it. I just don't think it would be anchored.

the equipment, I mean each part. You know, Carson had the first you know, the things which they had to be great clubs because they looked so bad, yet they felt so good to everybody. I mean, Carson was way ahead of the game. So now they have, you know, the composite heads. I mean, I was the third one, I think, to start using metal woods when Taylor made started with him, and I thought, well, I'm gonna use them to they ban them, because I know they're gonna

ban them because somebody's gonna get killed. I mean, you're never gonna You're never gonna see an aluminum baseball bat in the big leagues, I'll promise you or else the pitcher, they're gonna be pictured behind cages because the ball comes off it's so fast. And I think this has tremendously helped the average person because in the old days, I mean we'd play the clubs, I mean, did pick up weight if it was if it was raining, you literally your club would get heavier. I mean it's you know,

it's not the same, but it's it. You know, we've gained from you know, the technology to put people on the moon, and they now have you know, they know whether the bigger heads are better. They know they're finding Now the loft makes sense because you're you can tell from the track man that you're watching, you know how much spin you're putting on the ball relative to your flight pattern. I mean there's so much stuff. I mean, it's in I think that's one reason why for the

average game. I just gave a women's clinic today for the ladies here, and I just grabbed their different wedges, and it's amazing to me. I think putter is highly important. I think the sand wedges are important, and I think drivers are very important as you especially clubs, And I mean I'm grabbing these ladies wedges. Some are some of them are very very light. Almost everybody in the grip was either old and slick or you know, just didn't

feel right. And here's these ladies, some of them in their sixties, a couple in their and I can hand them my wedge. It's obviously too heavy for them, but they can get out with my wedge better than theirs. So there's there's for the people out there, and that's why we need to have good professionals and have you

have it. Hopefully wherever you're at, have an opportunity to get to a fitting center that the people understand and aren't just trying to sell you clubs, but literally fit something that and I don't want to get off the first tea or on the first hold. I wanted something to work on about fourteen or fifteen. When you get tired, I want the club to still work for you.

putter because it lets you ford press your hands. And I've had some of the most unbelievable statistics when somebody measures how soon my ball stops bouncing and skidding, generally it's with under an inch. My ball has got it's rolling, It's already rolling because of the loft and being able to ford press my hands, and yet I'm in the minority. Most putters are made with two degrees one to two degrees aloft. And they tell you, well, if you know, if you you know, if you get more off that

you're gonna chip it. Well, not if you put your hands ahead. And any of your listeners can go out there and they can put there, they can put again the stripe on the wall with a paint brush. What do you want leading coming down the wall? Do you want the brush leading or do you want the butter and the handle of the handle of the brush leading? You want to handle the brush because that way you control, you control the field as you come down the wall.

And that's why you want your hands ahead. And if you don't have loft time I played against Lee Elder for years and he had negative loft, so he set his hands back, very similar to what Zach Johnson does. And again Zach Johnson will be a poster cow for there's no right way to do this. You gotta fit your eyes, you gotta you know, the speed you play's got to fit you. Your clubs have to fit you. Uh, And everybody's different, Yes we.

Is it was it harder for you growing up with a teaching professional dad, or was it harder for your children growing up growing up with a touring dad, tour professional dad? And when I say harder, I'm saying growing up in the Gulf world.

I have changed. I mean World War Two, my dad ran a bomb plan and when he got through in nineteen forty four, he went into the sporting his business. He still kept his PGA card and he would still teach the kids around and you know all that the five of us I said went out on tour. He taught all that, but he's basically working in the sporting store.

My life was such that, you know, I wasn't kidding about the Tidley Winks, but I mean I played basketball and baseball till I broke my back when I was fifteen and I became a I couldn't do the other sports. So the only way I was going to be able for to go to college to get a golf scholarship. Well, Dad would let me you know, when work, I started working on my game, saying, working on my game. The most tournaments I ever played in a summer as a

junior was three, and that was seventeen. I was trying to get my scholarship to go to Southern cal And I played in the National Junior and I played in the Hurst Championship and the Arrowhead which is my hometown tournament. And it was the only three tournaments I got to play, and they wanted me. I went to USC as a pre law major. I was going to be a lawyer because my grandfather, who lived in Tucson, was a mining attorney,

and that's what my parents wanted me to be. They had no desire to push me toward golf, and a year at SC convinced me that I was going to be hard pressed the last four years, let alone seven, And in the end, I wanted to try this, you know, this type of lifestyle and see if I was good at it. When you get to the kids. Junior played on tour almost ten years, and I think he would have made it. He was close. I mean two different

times we both led tournaments. I was leading the Tournament Players Championship on the Champions Tour when he was leading Hartford and he finished second third. Norman beat him the one year. But Ronnie had always had a bad back and never really played, and so consequently Ronnie's been teaching over twenty years. But David played to ten years. And

it was real estate a few years ago. And then when I went into this rotator cuff surgery and O nine, Junior is looking around for what to do, and he'd getting ready to go back to tour school, and I thought, I thought Kathy, his mother was going to kill him, and he started the teaching and David has always been good with people, and so it's come full circle, but from a whole different perspective. I mean, David's first child, Serena,

was a twin and complicated pregnancy. She was premature, born just over two pounds ten ounces, and right now she's a volleyball star at almost sixteen. So it nailed him from being out on tour. And that's one thing about boy. Kathy and I were lucky, is that we traveled the entire time together. The kids had always come out during the summertime. I would have said it was easier for them to make it with me being a pro because he, you know, while Junior is when he's playing the Mini Tour,

the Nike Tour, he was ready to come home. I said, no, he's back East, and I said, I tell you what, I'm gonna call you back. And what I did. I've never got anybody else sins on AUGUSTA, but I got Junior on. Junior played thirty six holes on August and he won the very next week.

asked him what he was thinking about. He got a big smile, he said, said, basically, I found something before I went to the West Coast swing that felt comfortable to me, and that was the swing thought I used for the entire year, the only swing thought. Well, I'm here to tell you your listeners out there, most people have they can't even remember the swing thoughts they had the previous month.

The reason he's good in teaching is that he was a psychology major at the University of Redlands here, but his was a different course and he went to see he got mug sophomore year going back to Trinity Row and he came out transfer to the u of R and he actually had Division III, ended up leading the nation and scoring two time All American here, And I mean, just to it fit his you know, he could live at home and we worked out really good. But Ronnie

can fix anything. I mean, he guy dives. Uh, he's you know, like I say, he's got pilot's license and all this stuff. So yeah, I am surprised he did that because just because he could do anything, really and just because golf was easy. The only hard part for

Ronnie is that Ronnie is left handed. And I explained to Ronnie when I opened the closet door and showed him the five thousand clubs sitting in the closet, none of which were left handed, that if he was going to play, he was gonna have to use to learn to use these. So he's completely amidexterous, And you know, I just I did not suspect that he would end up being the golfer because I knew he was going to find something else because everything he touches turns the gold.

He's good at almost anything.

that had never been ranked before. So no, I'm very proud that it's there. I'm glad you know, I'm like, I'm number one in California and only because Jim Flick passed away unfortunately. But you know that's I think that's more. That's kind of incredible, just you know, being a short game known as a short game instructor. I'm very prideful of that. I mean, I think that's phenomenal. I have no I'm not setting my goal, you know, Okay, I'm gonna try to get in the top ten next year.

I can't change anything I'm doing. I couldn't handle more people. I mean, I had a week here a month ago where I had nyon Joy, I had Gallagher from Scotland. I had Francesco Molinari from Italy. I had Cole Starts in Belgium. I had Johnny Vegas from Venzuela. I told my wife Cathy, I said, how cool the five days has this been. I mean, let's face it. I mean

it keeps me young. I mean two weeks from now, I'll be down in Augusta and I'll be walking in out of the clubhouse, talking with guys and everything and feeling not anywhere, feeling nearly as old as a seventy two year old than I am and feeling relevant because I know that I can pass on stuff that's going to help them.

a dart at a bullseye? I mean you're thinking about where your weight is, or you're thinking about where your eyes are looking. Are you thinking about your left shoulder going up or down or whatever? I mean, you're not thinking of that.

course in their minds. You can see him going the tight turns in long slooping, sloping turn to the left maybe, and you can just see him going through this in their mind and they step up and they do it, just like the person that has this shot under the trees that you've got to do something too, versus the poor devil that stands in the middle of the fairway and has no clue and I'm so proud of this wonderful tea shot. He's just it and he doesn't realize the disaster that's going to happen.

yard increments between two clubs. You have to learn how to hit different shots.

my school, so we're hitting seven. Are you put your hand on your seven you get it halfway out of the bag and you turn to your caddy and say, what do you think seven? Well, since you've already started the club coming out of the bag, what's the caddy gonna say? He knows it should be an eight, so he'd say just yeah, nice and smooth, fine, okay, which tells you then, hum, he doesn't think I have to hit this very big, or he says, now go ahead,

just hit a good one. That'll be good, meaning you better nail this thing, because I was thinking six iron. So what I do is I go past it. And the way my dad taught me was that every club I have, it's between two clubs. So in fact, he would do a drill. We'd go out on a course and he'd make me hit two or three clubs to one pin, and I'd have to hit different shots. And I got the creativity to come that way. So consequently, what I told the girl yesterday is basically I want you,

and I brought the caddy over. I said, she's not going to ask you what you think seven aron. The new question is going to be you're gonna tell her of the yard? If you're gonna tell her one point fifty she's gonna ask you, what two clubs do you think? So you're either gonna say six seven or you're gonna say seven eight. Now she's quietly thinking seven eight, okay. He says, uh, six seven okay, perfect, it's a seven are even though she thought seven eight and he thought

six seven. But it's already let her know that he's thinking this whole plan slightly longer than she thinks. Now you may both come up with the same club seven eight. That's fine. It's up to her to decide or him to decide when you hit the shot, how high it's gonna go, where it's gonna land. You know, this sort of thing, But it makes it. It's just another step in the process of giving you a chance to hit the correct shot at something right right.

out of Vietnam. Now, they had five hundred some kids went in here in nineteen sixty seven, and only two of us out of five hundred were four f And consequently, I would guess that my feelings were the fact that I was never the most gifted physically, but I'm going to beat you mentally, and so you never give up. If seventy five or six was the best I could do,

it certainly made the sixty seven. I was going to need to shoot the next day to make the cut a much more viable approach rather than getting all mad and huffy about it because he just you know. It's like the two things with Rory, the one I alluded to where he won the Open, where I basically had him. He was monitoring how he played the secondman one, which is his PGA at Kiowa, where I saw in the week before, and he had a terrible year so far. He'd been up and down. His girlfriend, who's now a

fiance was an Aki, the tennis player. Uh me, he just he wasn't consistent. He missed, he hadn't defended his US opened very well at Olympic Club in San Francisco. He missed and cuts me as we were leaving Akron the week before, I'm leaving to go play Minnesota, and he's so I'm getting on Wednesday, and I said, I want you to do me a favor. And he looks right at me, which he always does, and I said to him, I said, you know, I am getting really tired of turning on a TV and telling whether you

burdy or bowie the last hole. And I don't know why you're giving these people, your opponents, an opportunity.

was fishing in Seattle and this older gentleman. I went out on this boat with him. He had an old boat, had both kids with me. I'd been going for years and these fancy cabin cruiser and couldn't catch a salmon. This guy caught five in the first hour fishing this thing, and he's got the lure's name. It's really cute. So I left the kids overnight. I went to Plague, went back, played the pro am, came back out where in the

boat and his name was Mike Hunt. And he turned to me and he says, how old do you think I am. I'm looking at him. He's Norwegian, big hands. I said, I don't know, Mike. You got to be sixty eight or nine. Somebody says, yeah, I'm seventy nine. Said I don't look at do And I said no. He says, you know why, I said no, not exactly. He said, if God didn't count, the day's just spent fishing.

And I'm thinking about that. I'm thinking and because he is getting toward, you know, September is getting toward the end of the year, you're starting to lose patience. It's not quite heading season. It was like a twilight zone for me. And I went out to play an ever at this tournament, and if I hadn't invited Bobby Cole,

I would have won it. I finished second, but I spent the entire four days thinking about how God didn't count the days I spent golfing, and I couldn't believe how relaxed that made me instead of getting all tensed up and everything else. You know, so I'm always finding stuff like that. Well, Fred, I've got to be running here. This has been an enjoyable time.