Golf Smarter number three hundred and sixty seven, published on January twenty two, twenty thirteen.
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Golf Channel picked up a point in January of seven, and you know, I told my wife in December of six, I said, if they don't pick us up, I'm done.
I'm out.
Because I had already kind of been through CBS and NBC and they were really the last network. The proma TVs was only really three people to choose from me. You have three customers, and if they all say no, then you're not You're that business. And I was literally within days of just giving up and moving on.
Could you have really walked away from it at that point?
Yeah, well, at that point, I mean I loved it, but if there's no business for it, you know, started that if I couldn't prove a legitimate business, it was time to move on.
Like it or not.
Came down to really really a couple of days and around Christmas of six and Golf Channel did say, hey, great, we'll do this three year deal.
They said, we'll do it one tournament, Part.
One of the aime Point putting system with creator Mark Sweeney.
This is Golf Smarter sharing tips and insights from golfers and golf professionals to help lower your score.
It's worked for your host, Fred Green. Welcome to the Golf Smarter podcast.
Mark. Thanks, hey, Fred.
It's so good to hear you your voice son on the other end of the line here. Because so many Golf Smarter listeners have said, have you talked to Mark Sweeney at main Point Golf yet? Why haven't you got him on? Even Nick Chirtak, who introduced us as a listener, longtime listener and a golf friend of mine, says, this is what golf Smarter is all about.
Is where I'll tell you.
Okay, so what is it tell me about aim point A point?
Well, any point started off as a basically a TV product. So what I did is I wrote a piece of software that could figure out how to put from any point on a real green to any other point. So There have been some research done on this before, but it was always done by you know, professors, and on some very kind of sterile environments, not real golf greens.
So I basically just attacked the problem and got it working and got it on the Golf Channel in two thousand and seven and we've been on there with them for about six years now. And what that led to is a teaching curriculum. So what I learned by simulating thousands and thousands and thousands of putts was that there's some actually very predictable patterns and that we, as normal golfers, can can use some very simple rules and predict very accurately.
What break is.
What were you doing that you were considering writing software program for television?
Well, I was bored.
Basically, I was in the Uh That's the flattering version of the story was I was bored. I'd been working in finance and in high tech and I just kind of had some free time and I was I was playing tons of golf. I loved golf, and I had a background in software development, so I it was something I kind of knew how to do, and it was a sport that I really enjoyed, and I thought, you know,
why is nobody really attacked or solved this problem? And so I just kind of put my mind to it on the side, you know, on on weekends and the nighttime, and just sat down and started chipping away at the problem. And surprisingly it came together pretty quickly. And when I started testing the software, it worked much better than I thought it should. So I thought it would be you know, okay, or be interesting, but it actually really worked well and that got me thinking, okay, well what can I do
with this? And my pro at the time said you should really take this to the networks because they would love this for TV, and you know, took it took a year and a half two years for it to actually get on TV. But that's genesis of the idea.
And were you an entrepreneur or had this entrepreneurial spirit about you in your career previously or it is like all of a sudden this started happening and you're telling your wife and seventeen children. So I got this idea that I'm going to be leaving my job and I'm going to go do this.
Yeah, I guess I had the entrepreneurial spirit, but I was working at big companies. I worked at Hewlett Packard for about five or six years. I worked at Cable Vision up in New York, and I think I had it in me, and this kind of put me over the edge to kind of stop doing the big corporate you know, working in a cube everyday thing, and branch out by myself.
So it was just fun, you know. The biggest thing about it is.
You know, it was just something I had a real passion for and I had enough skills to figure out how to make it work.
And then it kept me on the golf course too.
Yeah, so sitting inside all day, it could actually be outside in the sun on the golf course, screwing around trying to get things working.
And taking a year and a half to get the networks to I guess signed the deal. I guess they were listening. How long did you get them to take to listen?
It took a while. I showed it to track record. Yeah, well that was the hardest. I had two difficult things. The first was I wasn't in the TV business or in the golf business, so I was kind of a nobody. So I did get in and saw some producers at CBS who thought it was great, and we did some demos, but the biggest obstacle was actually convincing people that it
was doable. So when I went to the networks, a lot of people say, well, that's cool, but I don't believe you can actually predict what a putt will do before you hit it. And it took a lot of demonstrations and a lot of time in front of all the networks, in front of the PGA tour, in front of golf instructors, in front of the talent to say,
you know, this actually does work. And even after I was on TV for a year and a half, two years, we still had people saying, yeah, but conceptually it really shouldn't work that well because of wind and grain and footprints and you know, you know, all these things that pop up on the golf green that you can't predict. And there was a big resistance to it, a big resistance.
And then so luckily, after you know, years and years of showing this, when I say that, I mean, you know, two or three years, people realize, yeah, you know, it's not one hundred percent accurate, but it's ninety seven percent accurate, which is good enough.
It's better than the networks.
And It's better than not knowing anything. It's better than getting up to putt and going, well, I thought it was going to go left and went right. How weird, you know, and then move on to the next the next shot. It actually gave you a really accurate prediction.
Okay, I want to get into the depth of that. But before I go there, we're recording this in the beginning of January and coming up, breathing down. Our next is the annual PGA Merchandise Show in Orlando, the big daddy of them all. And you've been there, now how many TIMESGA show?
Three times?
Three times?
I've exhibited three times. I've been there probably five or six times.
Okay, and right because as you were developing this, you were probably scoping it out and seeing what's out there and what your competition is, right right, yeah, okay, So I've not been to the Orlando show. I went to the Las Vegas show a couple of times. And the one thing that really, what's the word I want to use here, depressed me. The one thing that I thought was sad were all these guys And this is what
I want to throw out this warning right now. All these guys who are have an idea that they have the greatest tea ever made, and they just think, I'm giving up my Hewlett Packard insurance salesman job because I've got this great tea.
Yeah, you know, it's that was the very first thing that struck me, too, is how much stuff there was. And when I say stuff, I mean just cras garbage.
Yeah, thank you, But.
There was so much garbage. I mean, there were so many variations of very simple things. And I remember thinking, how in the world to these companies say in business? I mean, I just I just don't get it. And a lot of them don't. I mean a lot of them you see one year at the show and then you never see them again. But there was just thousands of these sorts of products that people put out there and spend money on and they never really get a foothold anywhere, right.
Right, And they have and I've you know, I've been self employed for decades now and have come up with a couple of goofy ideas and they've allowed me to make a living. But I get people going, oh, I got this idea, I got it to do this, I'm going to be an entrepreneur. If you don't have the support system at home. Yeah, if you can hear the fingers tapping on the table or the toe tapping going Okay, you done yet?
Right?
Do you get all right? Yeah?
That's going right.
And it took you a year and a half to get a signed deal. At what point did.
You should take more than that?
Actually took more than that because I started this in the fall of two thousand and three, CBS used it on air one time in five and I didn't get a deal with contract with Golf Channel till January of seven. So we're talking more like, you know, three almost for well really three years?
Wow?
And you know, so you're doing stuff in the middle of the night or did you quit your job? I mean where I was.
I was doing some other stuff also, but I was getting more and more well, yes, I was doing other things, but I was spending more and more time and spending more and more money on trying to get this on TV.
And and as any.
Entrepreneur and entrepreneur knows, you wake up a lot of mornings in a cold sweat, wondering why you're wasting your time.
Oh you mean you get to that means you get to sleep. Yeah, most entrepreneurs are like freaked out, they can't even fall asleep.
Well, yeah, I mean there's a lot of late nights and then you wake up, you finally go to sleep, you wake up in the morning and go, what am I doing?
Like? What am I?
Absolutely out of my mind? And I had that many a mornings. I woke up and just said, I'm an idiot. I don't know why wasting time and money on this because it's.
Right, But you don't admit that on right, You don't admit that to your you know, like it's going on in your head, but you don't tell anybody. But you've got the other people in your life are going, what are you doing?
Get on with it exactly?
Oh yeah, And I was there, and I mean most people don't know the story, but you know, Golf Channel picked up ame point in January of seven, and you know, I told my wife in December of six, I said, if they don't pick this up, I'm done. I'm out because I had already kind of been through CBS and NBC and they were really the last network. You know, the problem with TV is there's only there's only really three people to choose from. You have three customers, and
if they all say no, then you're done, you're in business. Yeah, And I was literally within days of just giving up and moving on.
Were you did you? Could you have really walked away from it? Uh?
At that point? Yeah?
Well at that point, I mean I loved it, but if there's no business for it, you know, you're starving death. I had, I had children, and it was just there was if I couldn't prove a legitimate business, it was time to move on like it or not. Whow So it was came down to really really a couple of days and around Christmas of six where and Golf Channel didn't say, hey, great, we know, we'll do this three year deal. They said, we'll do it one tournament and
if it works, then we'll talk about moving on. So you know, that first Mercedes Tournament oh seven was extremely stressful.
Went off.
You know, we got everything working. Then they did one more than they didn't one more. There was never a floodgate where they said, oh, okay, it's great, we'll sign you for three years. It was just one after another chipping away and then eventually you know, you wake up one day and you've been on for six years.
Wow.
So you never got a full deal out of it.
Well, I eventually did, but not after the first year. So the first year, I think we did seven tournaments, and then the second year we did twelve, and the third year we did twenty, And eventually I did get a deal. But they only run year to year sure, so at the end of every year they can renew
or not renew. But in the beginning, in the first year, they had the sign a sponsor, they had to prove it worked, they had to get buy in, they had to do all these things, and that's just you know, that's not easy to do with a new technology, especially one that people, you know, a lot of people don't believe it could possibly work.
Yeah, no, I was. I actually I actually had the same experience that an idea that I had developed. Budweiser ended up sponsoring this idea and distributing it out. But every January first, I had no idea if it was going to happen again, and I got and I was, and I was hoping to get three years out of
the Budwiser thing. It ended up getting eleven, which was amazing, but you just you just every year, I think, and then it progressed into other venues and I started working with the NFL and things like that, and every January first I had no idea how much money I was going to make that year.
Oh I know.
That's that's the downside of being running your own businesses. Of course, all the freedom in the world, but you have very little security, right.
And people think you get to work for yourself. Ha ha ha.
You're always working for somebody probably right.
Yeah, You're always working for some.
Somebody else is always writ in the check at the end of the day.
Yeah, it's right. Bob Dylan said, you got to serve somebody, and it's right. Oh man. So were they with each each tournament they were doing. Are they paying a rights fee? They paying licensing?
Well?
How are they?
Yeah?
And are you getting money that's going? Okay, this could work? Ors like, here's a buck fifty, Thank you very much, see you later.
The amount of time and money that I put into it in the first two or three years, I think I did six on site demos for the networks, and every time I showed up on site. You know, I'm paying my own expenses, my own travel, it's operational expenses involved, you know, none of that.
They don't reimburse you. For any of that.
So they you know, they started to pay on a per tournament basis the first year, but I mean I didn't break even until probably into the third year. Wow, you know, I mean, I mean, you know, the first couple of years I definitely operated a loss and just trying to recoop that.
You know, what I had put into it.
Between patents and legal fees and operational expenses. I mean all those things. You know, if you until you have a revenue coming in, those are just stacking up on top of each other.
Yeah.
Yeah, and your wife was being supportive.
Yeah, she was shockingly supportive. She was probably more supportive back then because I was I was at home a lot more than I am now, and now I travel so much it gets a little more difficult.
Oh so all right, Well, since you're home, go pick up the kids and while you're there, go to the market where you have to do a lot of like no, no, I'm working today, Yeah, no, No, you gotta go run some chores.
Oh yeah, I mean it's great working at home, but you have to learn that. You have to learn little keys like when the office door shut, nobody comes through it.
Period.
Yeah, but you still have to go put the wash on the dryer. Yes, yes, okay, I've been there.
What in there?
So the whole thought for you was this is going to be great on TV.
Well that was my second thought. Actually, really my first thought was that.
Was your marketing thought. That was the thought that's like, okay, oh, now I can sell it to somebody.
Well that was that was actually the rich The original thought was I was going to create the software and put it on a handheld. Now, the problem was, in two thousand and three, handhelds were Palm pilots with no Internet connectivity, no cell connectivity.
This was a standalone unit.
Yeah, this was well the mobile yeah, the mobile world.
Yeah yeah, yeah.
So I so I actually didn't appen three and put it on a Palm pilot and went out and tested it. And the problem was you couldn't see the screen in the daylight. They weren't these sunlight you know, sunlight readable TFT screens. You'd take it on the bright sun and it just blanked out on you. And so it was just the equipment wasn't ready for that.
Yeah, you were ahead of that. Technology was way.
Ahead of the curve on that. And so I said, well, that's not gonna that's not gonna work right now? What could I do? And I was talking to again my head pro at the time, and he goes, oh, you should just take it to TV. And at the time I was like, yeah, maybe, you know, we'll give it a shot.
Why not.
And TV showed a lot of interest, CBS showed a lot of interest very early on, which you know, kind of got me excited about it. But then to actually make it happen just seemed like it took forever.
Mm hmmmm hm.
And and with a palm pilot, plus there's no camera on that or do you need that? I mean, what is it? So what is the software that that you wrote? What does it do?
Well?
That original one, what it did is it would actually load the laser scans of the grip of the course you were playing, So we would go out and laser scan the golf greens and get three D maps of it. And all you do is say, here's my ball and here's the hole, and it would tell you what the
break was. So that was the original idea. There's a lot of operational difficulties with that as simple as there's the whole and the problem is you can take a pin and move it three feet and get a totally different break good efficient way to know exactly where the pin was.
You know.
So there's a lot of things that just made it difficult. So I just shelved it basically. I mean I had it built. I still have it built. I submitted to the USGA actually for a decision, and I just put on the shelf and moved on.
And did you get to talk to the USGA about this? Were they receptive they cheating?
No?
No, that well, they didn't say cheating. The decision was interesting because they weren't really prepared for it. But what they said was they called it an outside advice, basically asked for outside advice. And it was interesting because they said, you know, we don't really know how to classify it, but we're not comfortable with a computer helping you with your game. And so they basically just threw a blanket rule at it and say it's you know, it would
not be conforming equipment. And it didn't surprise me at all that they said that, But they didn't really know how to address it. You know, it's kind of outside their their thinking process at the time.
Oh I bet even today, even today, I would think that's a little bit outside of their thinking process. So why were you not completely discouraged at that point, going, well, listen, if I can't get back past this group, why do I keep going?
I don't know.
It's a good question, I think because probably because the networks, the producer at CBS I showed it to, got very excited, very quickly, and I think that helped a lot. If I had if it had taken months and months to get anybody that from the networks to listen to me, I think I would have.
Probably been a little discouraged.
I think at that point I would have said, Okay, well I don't really know what to do with this now, Oh, just have fun with it.
When you brought it to the networks, did they you? I got to imagine that they wanted to make it pretty for television. You brought them a concept, You brought them a pro type of a palm pilot. I mean, well, you know, what was your experience with television graphics and how to make something work on that.
I had no experience with television television graphics. Basically, I went to them and said, here's what I can do. I can show you what the Putt looks like before you hit it. And what they said at the time, CBS worked with the virtual graphics company called pv I, and pv I did one of the first down lines for football the first time.
Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. Isn't that the group that did the which was phenomenal.
Yeah, And so they said, well, we work with them, Go work with pv I and give us a demonstration.
And that's kind of scary because you don't know. You go to pv I and they go, yeah, we can do that, we don't need you, thank you very much.
Uh, trust me. That's exactly what sometimes happened. Didn't happen with pv I, but that that can happen. Yes, So oh yeah, it's dangerous because you know, as a single person, as a small operator, I'm you know, I don't have any employees. When you go to big companies, you really have to protect yourself and it's very hard in the beginning because you kind of you work with who you have to work with. No, that's not necessarily who you
choose to work with. And you get in with some big companies so they don't really care much about your business. You know, you don't have a personal relationship, and they look at it and go, oh, I could reproduce this.
Tomorrow, and they really don't care about you.
And they really really don't care about you.
So you really have to protect yourself and then unfortunately, just try to work with good people and and just.
Take a risk and go for it.
Wow.
So yeah, and so we got a good demonstration working for CBS and they basically they showed it once on air, but at the time they said they couldn't find a sponsor for it, so they just shelved it. Also, they said, we need somebody to sponsor this because most graphics on TV are sponsored by a company.
Basically, what they're saying is we ain't gonna pay for it.
Well, no, that's exactly that's exactly what they said.
They said, it's we're not going to pay It's great, we're not gonna pay for it. We'll get someone else to pay for it. But they don't know if it is either oh man.
And they were really supportive, I mean, they really liked it, but they just said, like any graphic, it's got to be sponsored or it's not going to be on there. So so that kind of went cold. But then luckily, you know, Golf Channel got the PGA Tour deal in o six. They had never showed PGA Tour events and they were starting in seven with this big splash, and they wanted some new graphics and they wanted to really come.
Out and look good. O, your timing is perfect.
So the timing was worked out very well, and luckily Golf Channel took a risk on it because my understanding was there are a number of people who said, listen, I don't I don't think this is possible. Do we really want to take a chance, And luckily the producer I was working with said, yeah, let's go for it, and they did it, and we won an Emmy for it for that first year too. The seven year we got a Sports Emi for it.
And did you get an Emmy for it or did they're like, hey, look we got an Emmy.
Well, the nice thing about this award is that it is a Golf Channel Emmy, but they can name what do they call them contributors or something, So so yes, I did get an Emmy, and there were a number of on the team who did it who got an Emmy for it also, wow, But it was Golf Channel's only Emmy I believe today still.
Oh is that right? Wow? Very cool? Very cool. So now we have the idea. Basically, what it does is it it puts a line on the green television wise, So we're watching TV. Why don't you explain that? So as we're watching TV, what do we see and what is it? And how did you make that work?
Yeah?
Yes, essentially after the green's ahead of time with a high definition laser scanner, so we know exactly what the surface of the green looks like down to footprints. Literally the scanner is accurate to like two millimeters I think, So we know what the green looks like. The software knows how to get the ball from point A to point B over that surface. So when the ball hits the ground, we say, here's the ball, there's a whole
here's the green. Speed show me how to make the putt okay, so my figures out how and then they just insert the just like the first down mark, or they put what's called a virtual graphic on which basically the computer knows how to keep the graphic still even though the camera's moving around, so it looks like it's paintsed on the green.
Yeah, very so.
And it's cool because it only takes you know, three or four seconds to solve pretty much any put out there. And it's shockingly accurate. I mean really really. The thing that surprised me from day one is it worked better than I expected it to work. Just the physics of it is so is so good.
And how what about your prep time? I mean you you're saying you have to do a laser scan of every green before it starts, so you can't do every golf course in the in the country to to put what kind of how much prep time does it take before they will broadcast?
Well, they only scan, uh, they use on two greens per tournament, so we only have to sprant stanch.
And so there's a guy who goes.
Out, takes them a couple hours, he scans it, and then I just show up. I just show up and basically push the buttons, so I don't even have to go stand on the golf green. Literally, all I have to do is get the green speed correct and if there's any wind, plug in some wind and then the computer just does the whole thing from there.
Oh that's really interesting is now that that kind of answers a big question for me is how come we don't see it all the time. It's so cool. Why is it only you know, like they only do two greens, Perer.
They only do two green.
Yeah, it's just it's usually only use it, you know, a couple times, three times an hour, and it's just not feasible to happen on eighteen greens. And we also need a fixed camera on a tower, and they don't have towers on every green. They typically have them kind of fifteen through eighteen, maybe nine also, So just operationally, it's just very difficult to do more than two or three greens.
Well, the reason I've been hearing from listeners about this is because you've been able to migrate it over from a television product to a product that can help the average golfer.
Yes, yes, And that's actually been one of the funnest parts about this is learning during this process of showing it on TV that you can actually use it as an average golfer with no technology. So it was always kind of my goal because I'm your typical golfer, you know, I never I don't play as much as I would like to play. I'm not from the golf industry, and I'm thinking to myself. Well, you know, I've learned a lot about putting and green reading from all these simulations
that I know nobody knows. I said that, you know, I've taken lots of golf lessons in my life, and I've never heard or read any of these concepts that I was seeing by virtue of the simulation. And I said, well, wow, it would be really great to kind of get these out there and teach people how to understand greens because it's really not as difficult as you think, but it's just not out there. It's something you can never figure
out without a computer. And now we obviously have the technology and via the simulations to show us exactly why the ball does what it does.
Well, I want to ask you a lot more questions about how how we can take advantage of this and how we can learn from using your system, but we've run out of time for this episode, and I would really love it if you could give us some more time on our members only episode for next episode? Could you stick around for some more Yeah, absolutely, that would
be great. Well, thank you very much. So, if you've heard about Aimpoint and you want to know more on how you can become a better putter by using this system. And I've received feedback from a lot of listeners saying that they have become better putters by using the aim point system. First thing you want to do is check out the website and that is where Mark.
That's gamepointgolf dot com, aampoint goolf dot com.
Go there, find yourself an instructor and we'll get more information on that.
Mark.
Stick around and we will come back for members only. Thank you so much for forgiving us the stories.
Yeah. Thanks.
It's time once again for our score Zone Short Game Academy with Terry Kaylor, the Wedge Guy.
Hi, Terry, how you doing Fred?
I'm doing well. I'm getting excited for you to go to the PGA Merchandise Show so we can get a review when you come back.
Yeah, we're looking forward to this busy week for us.
Very busy week indeed. And the question we're going to go to today is from Stephen Davis of Colorado Springs, Colorado, and he said that, and I love the opening of a question already. When I was fitted for irons, thank you, he said, they made a big deal about getting the right flex. However, when he purchased wedges, it seemed like all the flexes were the same. So he asked two questions. The second question is why, But the first one is is there really a need for different flexes on wedges?
Well, I think think you got to go further than that, Steven, and there is a need for not just different flexes, but different shaft materials and weights in wedges. And let me so you ask why. So here I go what you're looking for in your set of golf clubs, and you have a transition from your irons to your wedges. But this happens right in the middle of what I call money range. And you're going to really beat the golf course with your scoring clubs, your high loft golf clubs.
You know, whether that starts at the eight or the nine iron and down through your wedges. And what we golfers have always been saddled with is that we have a set of irons and they have this shaft and this flex in them, and that typically goes up through the pitch the pea club as I call it, and then we have a match or a mismatch of wedges, these things called wedges that we bought off the rack at the store and the major brands have always offered wedge just as a commodity off the rack item, and
they use a commodity grade steel shaft with the stiff flex and it's standard weight steel, and it fits reasonably well two people who are playing standard weight steel stiff flex irons. But most of the golfers today are migrating to lightweight steel. They're migrating to graphite in their irons.
More and more and more golfers playing regular flex. And so what happens is when you walk out, if you're riding in a card or if you're pulling your bag or you're carrying your bag, and you get to the shot and it's right on the line, it could be a pitching wedge, it could be your gap wedge, or
you're fifty four, whatever your first wedge is. If you are carrying off the rack wedges with a heavy stiff steel shaft and you were playing irons with a lightweight steel, regular flex or a graphite even in a senior flex or regular flex or firm flex, you have in your hand a choice of two clubs that have what I call a disconnect. The wedge weighs and feels like one thing. The peak club ways and feels like another thing and your full swing shots need you need to have your
clubs feel and perform the same way. So the first part of that is the best thing to do in your wedges is to put shafts in them. And this means getting them refitted or buying them from a company like Score, But that will build your wedges to the specifications to give you this what I call a seamless transition, to avoid this disconnect. And you can retrofit your wedge shafts. Any good club maker can do that. But what you're looking for is to get the weight about the same
and the shaft get the flex about the same the materials. Certainly, if you're playing graphite shaft in your irons, get graphite in your wedges. It's going to give you that similarity, that seamless transition as.
We call it.
And I would tell you there are few things you can do to improve your short range performance quicker if short of buying a whole new set of scoring clubs. It really did again shameless plug, sorry guys, But is to get the shafts in your wedges to blend to those shafts that are in your irons, to performance improve immediately.
Terry, did you just make a very controversial statement. I've heard a lot of people say that you really, uh, wedges and graphite don't really go well together.
Well, I think that's conventional wisdom.
Yeah.
But and if you go back to the history of iron shafts, when people first started putting graphite in irons, most of the companies were using a pretty low grade graph it. I'm sorry, guys, I'm going to pick on them because to use a really nice, high grade graphight that set of graphite irons was going to cost thirty dollars a club, more than the steel shaft. At times eight clubs, it's two hundred and fifty dollars. They didn't
the companies didn't think golfers would go over that. The quality of graphight has improved dramatically over the years, and even in the lower pricing, you know, you don't have to spend fifty or sixty or eighty dollars to get a good quality graphight iron shaft graphite. To me, I haven't played a steel shaft golf club from a nutter to a driver in eight years, and I'll never go back to steel and I'm not going to go back to Buya supply tires on my car either. So but
technology works. I mean what we can do with graphite And at Score Golf we developed two new graphite shafts designed specifically for the scoring clubs, and we can build them with a firmer tip and a softer upper section and exactly the weight we want, exactly the frequency we want. The things you can do with graph fight you can control these things interdependently of the basic diameter of the shaft. I'm a huge fan of graphight. Graphite has fuel transmission
qualities that steel can't approach. Again, that may be controversial, but I'm a fisherman. If any of your guys are fishermen's there's not a tubular steel fishing rod on the market because tubular steel is not noted for its field transmission qualities. Graphight fiber carbon fiber is noted for its field transmission qualities. And I would challenge any of you guys to go out find a wedge demo with a really good quality graph height. And that's the key. It's
got to be a good quality graph fight. To find a wedges with really good quality graphight, you'll be surprised. The sensation of impact, the feel the clubhead, where you can feel that club in the swing. It's pretty amazing.
Wow. Well, thank you. I appreciate once again, I appreciate the education, and Steven, I'm sure appreciates the answer and the fact that he's getting a brand new wedge. And I'm telling you the.
Shaft if that's what you play, Steven.
And there you go, Steven, if that's what you want, you tell.
Us the shaft that's in your irons, and we're going to build you a score forty one sixty one club that blends perfectly to that. And I'm going to warn you're gonna want to fill in your set. That's what we only hear from everybody, So that's why I know that.
Yeah, and listen, I don't mind your shameless plug, but please explain once again. The forty one sixty one.
Forty one sixty one was the name we gave to this series of golf clubs because we're the first company to ever build the scoring clubs in every loft from forty one to sixty one degrees, so other companies could hit a fifty one degree wedge or a forty seven degree pitch or a fifty three degree mid wedge or a fifty seven degree sand, but they have to bend one to something it's not. And I'm kind of goofy for this because I think these are the most precise
clubs in your bag. These are the money clubs, and if you need a fifty one degree wedge to get your gapping just right, I wanted you to have a fifty one degree wedge, not a fifty or a fifty two that we've been around on and so we made the decision to tool up every single with btge loft from forty one to sixty one degrees, which some people
might say that's not really wedges. That goes down all the way to nine iron replacement philosophy there is that your nine earn is really more like a wedge than a six ron. So it should be built and it should feel, it should perform like your scoring clubs.
And Steven, once you get the wedge of your choice, he's right, you're going to want to fill out the fill out the entire set. And there's a set of five that you can get of these score forty one sixty one wedges, and as a golf smarter listener, all you have to do when you're checking out is use the checkout code golf Smarter and you'll get an immediate ten percent discount and that automatically goes with your your
one hundred percent money back guarantee. Any Golf Smarter listener who wants to check out the Wedges these scoring clubs from score Golf, you can click on their banner ad at golfsmarter dot com. But remember, if you're a golf Smarter listener, you do get a ten percent discount by using the checkout code golf Smarter. Now, if you're a golf Smarter member, you'll get an additional five percent discount.
That's a fifteen percent discount. And I'm telling you, if you're not a Golf Smarter member yet and you're really considering getting these clubs, you've got to join Golf Smarter because the first club it's going to pay your membership for a year, if not more. Okay, So become a member of golf Smarter and not only take advantage of these great discounts, but you'll also get to take advantage of getting a new episode every week, including part two of episodes like the one you're about to hear on
our next members only episode. Terry, thanks so much, and again, best of luck at the PGA Merchandise Show in Orlando. I know you guys are going to be a bigger hit you were last year, and I want a full report when we get the chance to do that. And I don't know it's going to be on our next show, but maybe after that, we're going to want to hear everything about the show, Okay,