Hi, I'm Damian Othello from Dublin, Ireland, and I play at Roganstown Country Club in North County, Dublin. Welcome to Golf Murder, episode number.
Nine hundred and ninety three.
I have been saying I wish we would mic the golf bags on tour. How many times you could flip that thing on and listen to a caddy talk to the player of what was going on and how it was going on. And at Augusta you can watch every shot of every player online. I don't know what that technology cost. I don't know it. Because it's played at the same place every year, it's easier. But can you imagine being able to watch a golfer listen to him and his caddy talk. I pay to listen to Nascar.
I don't watch much NASCAR anymore, but I will listen to a race, but I can hear the driver and the crew chiep talking and that's really exciting to me, listen to what's going on. How many people would pay three ninety nine or five ninety nine a month to be able to watch their favorite player? I would. I mean, that's what I do with the Masters. If I'm watching a line I'm watching my guys play.
Atlanta wins TGL and we go inside the celebration ropes with Lucas Glover's agent Mac Barnhardt. This is Golf Smarter, sharing stories, tips and insights from great golf mindes to help you lower your score and raise your golf IQ. Here's your host, Fred Green. Welcome back to the Golf Smarter Podcast. Mac.
Thanks Fred, great to be here. Buddy.
Well, you know, we were on a couple of weeks ago. We had a blast. But I was watching TV the other night, watching the TGL finals ye and looking into the owner's box of Atlanta and there's Lucas Club. Wait a minute, sitting next to Lucas's Mac. Mac.
I'm waving at you.
I'm screaming. My son is in town. We're sitting there watching. I'm like, there's Mac. There's a book. I macked it up. I show him Mac. And so, first of all, congratulations on being part of the championship team. The Atlanta team wins TGL for the inaugural year.
Really cool, Yep.
It's pretty exciting.
Yeah. I mean, look, it's brand new to me. I mean, you know, I played a wooden driver for a long time. I get it. This is a new concept, but you know, I think it'll catch on. I mean, if you come to the event, and it's hard not to get wrapped
up into the excitement. And you know, it was fun watching Lucas cheerybody owned his teammates and you know, and you know, we got to set with mister Blank, who owns the team and who's just a wonderful guy, and uh, you know, and obviously winning and then he had a whole really post you know, post match celebration like you would if any other championship team. If his Falcons win the Super Bowl, I'm sure it'll be like that. But
it was really cool. It's really neat that. And the really neat thing is is, look, all your friends and family, they're welcome to come. Please bring them in. And they gave out T shirts and hats and and it was pretty special.
I'm still sporting my Bay Club team, I understand, and I'm wearing my my windbreaker here and I'm sorry that they didn't. You know, they had such a fast start and they're looking so good. I'm like, oh, we're going to make the playoffs, and then it just kind of fell apart. I'll tell you it's Atlanta was just the opposite.
Uh yeah, I mean, think about it. I mean, Lucas probably statistically is playing better than any other teammates. So I mean, I don't think anybody had a chance with those four guys. They could have just thrown their names in a hat and they were all just they're all playing really good golf, and they're all excited about it, and they're you know, they're passionate about it, and so
I don't know if that's why they won. I mean, obviously it's golf, but you can see the excitement in it, and people think, you know, how much money they want. None of them were thinking that they want to beat you. They want to win, and it's fun to watch.
The purse wasn't bad. I mean, I know they're splitting it as a team. Hopefully they're splitting it evenly as a team, all four of them, but still it was a it was a healthy purse.
Oh my right o. Yep, yep. I think that's what they say. It's a pretty nice week.
But I want to know what was the buzz in the building while that championship match was happened. The final championship match on Tuesday.
And it was real. It was real. I mean it was.
Sporting events to be able to gauge.
Absolutely, you know, it's it's hard to I mean, yes, the people there are really having a good time and they're into it, and the players are into it. They're not kidding around. I mean, you know, they're a competitive and Lucas is kind of yelling at Billy horsehow about stuff. You know, it's like what you would see in a team concept. And I tell people, if you go back and look at the Ryder Cup from the nineteen eighties, go watch film. You know of the nineteen eighties Ryder Cup.
They weren't sold out, There wasn't there was massive crowds until nineteen ninety one and what they call it the War by the Sea or something like that in ninety one. That's what kicked it off. And what's going to be the thing that kicks tgl off. There'll be something a watershed moment that people really will pay attention and they'll come running in. The thing I like about it as I think with the absence of Tiger on tour, we've lost a lot of the sports fans that watched golf.
You know, Tiger brought into sports fans, and I think it's important that we earn we earn our golf fans back. I think a lot of golf fans have been turned off us and things in the past few years, and so we've got to real you know, we've got to get these golf fans back involved. And I think this and this may actually is seeing all the baseball players and stuff there that night, you know, the other sports stars.
This may bring the other sports fans back into the game, which may then push them to watch you know, other pro goff events, right, And that's what I hope. But I think we've got to earn I think we've got to earn a lot of the golf fans back into this game as well. It's just been so much talk about money, and it's it's just in our business. It's never talked about there is a moment that money comes in. But you don't hear that ever about that putt was worth.
I think Lucas made a putt the finished third and the players and people are telling me how much that putt meant. I mean, Lucas didn't know. He didn't. He'll find that later, But that wasn't the point, and everybody needs to understand these guys are not playing the game for money. I mean, they do earn a living doing it, but that's not what they're They're playing to compete and
beat people. That's it's it's always been the crux. And we just need to get talking about the money and and let these sports fans know that these guys would play for nothing. I mean they don't, but they want to compete. So but I was, like I said, I'm super excited.
You could see the energy. I mean, Billy horshchall was obvious. Uh and it was so exciting and what and you were part of that winning team, I mean being being associated with Lucas. I mean you didn't get to pick up a putter or luckily you didn't have to hit out. You didn't have to hit out of one of those bunkers.
Thank god they didn't want be doing it.
But it has to be exciting to be part of the inaugural winning team, even you know, loosely associated.
Loosely associally obviously asociated just by our conversations. I mean, you can't repeat it. You know, I've known mister Blanks for thirty some years, you know, just an incredible man. To be somewhat associated with him winning a championship, you know, is you know, you don't get those chances much in life, and I feel honored to be a part of it.
I was on TV too much because of the hundreds of texts I got telling me, you know, call me ugly and one of my you know all that stuff, and and I tell them, I said, you know, a camera adds ten pounds. And unfortunately they had three cameras on me the whole time. So but yeah, it was fun. Like I say, I try not to be a part of the show. That was a sign seating. I didn't have a choice. That's where my name tag was and I sat there. I knew I would be seen, you know.
I had one of our buddies, doctor David Murphy, our team, one of our team surgeons, and he was there and I told him, I said, no, look forewarned, you know, don't pick your nose, don't do anything silly because they're going to see you. So and I hope I didn't, you know, but.
No, no, Well, well thank you for explaining why I sent you a text the following morning and didn't hear from you. For twenty four hours, which is like unlike you at all. Yeah, it was, but I'm sure that you being on TV like that, you're going to get a lot of people reaching out.
Yeah, just you know, most of them were really fun and you know, the stuff they were telling me was quite funny, and I mean it's friends. I mean I get it. And you know, again, I don't try to ever be part of the show. I try to stay away from that stuff if I can, I like behind the scenes. But it was fun to be with Lucas and experience with him, because you know, he was really pumped.
And tell me about that. How is Lucas doing watching it? Watching about these guys want to play?
I'm not going to lie to you. He wanted to He did not want to be I don't want to say the proverbial bench. He did not. He wanted to play and he and obviously these are competitive men. These are not people out there they're showing off. This is what they do. They compete. And yeah, so he there's no question disappointed, But you can't argue with the fact that they won the championship. And whoever put the team out there may have known something that we didn't know.
I feel like Lucas would have been I think they'd have won no matter what. I just think they're that much better than the other teams. But yeah, I mean disappointed, but not in a way of like, you know, screw it, and he's like, no, I'll be there. I'm gonna support my team. I believe it, and if they need me, I'm ready to go. And he would have been ready to go if they had lost that first match. I believe he'd been pulled in, thank goodness, so we didn't need it.
One of the things that I loved about watching TGL is that it was more personality golf then you'll ever see on the PGA Tour because everybody's on their own island when they're playing on tour, competing against one another, but watching them and listening to them, right, having every guy miked and being part of a team. Just to me,
it just sucked you in. It brought you in, and I kept trying to bug my friends, you got to watch this, you gotta watch this, and I hope to watch the last one because they really did save the best for last that that game, that match I was I said, I was watching it with my son and I said, you know, as we were getting into the fourteenth hole there and we're tied and it was super close, and the hammer wasn't work and whatnot. It felt more like a baseball game, a playoff baseball game, than it
did almost any other sport. I mean, look at the score, four four, five five four, you know, five to four, you know that kind of scoring, and little nuanced things happened at work that didn't work. That felt like championship baseball, like any other sport.
And you're talking about the hammer, you know, because Lucas is like talking to him when they would come back over, They're like talking about they had a little hand signals for the hammer. You could see him like, and I think Patrick Cantley maybe the I think he may be the real expert at the hammer, if not Lucas, and I'm probably, but yeah, I mean as a whole new element. And look, we've watched Ryder Cup. We see what team
golf looks like. We see these guys come alive and team golf and you know, I'm going to say the dirty word and live and I'm being funny. I love liv Live golf is team event and I've been a part of that through Andy Ogletree, and you're right. You see, these guys have that team atmosphere is awesome. And that's what I kept saying earlier is what is wrong with some team golf? A So some team golf in this thing, and both the PGA Tour and Live should be able
to live together and combine some of that stuff. It'd be awesome. It'd be cool if they'd have a you know, have a lived team show up. You know what if they'd have had a live team show up, so well next week, now they got to play these guys. I mean, let's integrate these guys back in and maybe TJ I'll give us that opportunity.
Well, you brought it up. I was going to but since you already brought it up, you know, this seemed to work. TGL seemed to work. It was a great TV event. It was a made for TV event. And as Barney Adams has said to us before, hey, the PGA Tour is a television show, right, and this was designed to be a two hour TV show with competition. So it's like on an off sports night you get
to watch some sports. But so I have to think that they're walking away from the end of this season TGL and Tomorrow Sports walk away thinking this worked, We succeeded absolutely absolutely. Why did TGL work versus Live doesn't seem to have worked. I've never watched, never cared to watch a live event. Is what do you what do you in your seat? What do you think is the difference or why?
One? Well, there was a lot of negative energy thrown toward it, you know, to yeah, to try to lead people from not watching it. I believe that. I mean, obviously, I think there's organizations that did not want Live to succeed, sure, and I think there's a lot of negative Second thing is is I think they finally got to deal with Fox TV, the Fox Networks, and now there's going to be more exposure to be easier to watch. I think some people had some difficulty finding the CW of whatever league.
I think some of that it's new, it's you know, and again it's just there's a lot of people on this island that are they're either anti live or pro live, and it's the most ridiculous thing. It's you know, from my point of view, it's GoF they're aren't and off GoF opportunities for all the talent out there now much less trying to limit another option. I think there's there's room for several more tours and that much talent is out there, so I whether live works or not, I
think it's again, GoF is a slow moving game. It took a long time for people to quit wearing leather bottomed shoes. I mean, you didn't you saw it forever. They're not giving away the foot joy classics and still spikes, you remember that it just metal drivers. It takes people time, but once they lock into it, then it's fine. And I go back to the Ryder Cup. After ninety one,
the Ryder Cup becomes a sold out event. They're selling what's it, six hundred and fifty dollars a ticket in New York for a day, and they're selling them faster than they can print them. And it took a long time for that competition to catch the eyes of the public. And I think that's the same thing for Tgo, and I think it'll be the same thing for Lyft. I mean, there's an incredible amount of talent playing Lyft, and like them or not or wherever, all the reasons, it's competitive golf.
And I'm going next week to Miami with Andy ogle Tree to be there, and it's just just competitive. It's no different. This guys are not they're not playing for money. They are, they're earning money to play, but that's not what they're playing for. They play to compete. These guys are competitive people, and I think that's where we need
to get away from. I mean a lot of people with inflation are having a hard time feeding their families and just continuing to hear about these obscenes about some money, and I think it wears on you. I think we mentioned this one time. Derek Jeter was making what sixty million a year, but they didn't announce his salary every time he hit a home run. I mean it was like they talked about earlier in the year and then it was over. Now he's playing baseball, and I think
that's what we should do with golf. I mean, yeah, there's money involved in it, but let's just get back to these guys are trying to they want to win. I mean it wasn't but Lucas is gonna get paid whether or not he played or not. But they didn't. He wanted to play, right, I mean, he's that's what you know. And I think That's why they probably won. Is those guys all wanted to play, you know, they weren't just I mean I was I was really shocked that Tiger and Roy didn't show up for the finals.
And if they were there, I didn't see them, but I thought they would sound to come out, maybe to staying with mister Blank and yeah, I thought that would be it. And I don't know if it's because they weren't playing and they didn't feel it, but I thought there would be a lot.
More all the teams that should have been there.
I thought there'd be a lot. I mean, most of those guys lived ten minutes in there. I thought there would be a lot more support to come in and support the league because it's important for it to succeed. And I think Tiger and Rory, and I think Matthew Fitzpatrick was there. I didn't run into him, but who was you know, didn't play for their team. I think it was Case, but he was there, Okay, we good. I didn't say it, but he was on Team Bun.
I just thought that. I just thought that, I mean, this thing working is good for everybody in golf and everybody that could have been there on a Tuesday night, didn't have anything to do, and it's fun, free drinks
and food. I mean, what more do you want? And I just thought I thought that it might be a bunch of tour players hanging out, come over and celebrate, you know, when Davis's team won the US I mean the Ryder Cup in twenty sixteen, Somewhere during the celebration party, all the European team came over and hung out with the American team and had drinks and Darren Clark did a wonderful toast to the American team. And that's kind of what I thought would happen. I thought that we'd
all come together they won. But here we all are, and this is great for golf, and I kind of made me squeamish a little bit to think that even Tiger and Rory wouldn't be there.
M Well, one of the one of the early conversations that we had in talking about talking about Live, you made the comment about that the teams should have been regional as opposed to just random names, because then it makes it easier, makes it easier a for merchandising, but be for people to latch onto it, like here I am wearing clothes from the Bay team. I think that I think that that really worked for TGL, having the
teams being regional. You know. I mean I got the new Lab golf putter, the one designed by Adam Scott, and I didn't realize that I got it in Green and he's playing for Boston. So it's like, oh, this is perfect type the Adams Scott pletter and Green because he's playing for Boston on TGL.
But that's it exactly. Well, Yeah, yeah, I like I said, I again, I'm trying not to. I have my own ideas and I've told somebody I may be dead wrong, but only have the ideas based on thirty four years in his business. And yeah, I think regional teams would have been an amazing thing. I've made the suggestion and the end I trust what they're doing. These are there's
good guys and they're smart guys too. You know, why not have six players on the team like TGL, so that every player doesn't necessarily have to play every event. If TGL wants fourteen I mean, if I live wants fourteen events, and you could have let's I pretend let's let's pretend that we have an Iron Irish team, the Ireland team from Ireland, and you got Rory and Shane, and you don't have to be from Ireland, but some
aspects of it. And if they had six then Rory could play four team events a year and still play his major schedule and then play his other tour schedule and his other DP World Tour schedule and not overplay. But the team would get the same amount of exposure because you'd still be I mean, I wonder if they had a Dare matter, if they had to live event and Shane and Rory were on the team, how many people would show up in jerseys kind of like going to the Super Bowl and seeing the Eagles and the
whoever they played, the Chiefs jerseys. Sorry but I forgot they just keep putting. But yeah, but it's like the licensing opportunities of merchandising. And if you had a team for Texas and a team from here, you know, Frederica or there where people could latch onto it, want to where the jersey's proudly, you know, the licensing merchandise, That's
what it would have meant to me. And I think if like TGL, they had more players than played, they could space their players out and not you know, create a situation where a guy had to play thirty times a year to play. But that's again that's my idea wrong there.
But with the regional teams the TGL created, now you have like incredible room for expansion, right, because what happened to Texas. We need a definitely we needed Texas.
There's some good golfers that are Texas. I hear they don't, you know.
And we've got the two California teams. Okay, that was good, but there's so many different regions that should be represented and could be represented. And clearly the players don't have to come from that area.
No.
I mean the Bay team was like all foreign players practically, which is great. You know, I don't care because like my San Francisco Giants, I don't know how many of those guys ever grew up and played in San Francisco growing up.
Right, it's so rare that someone from Atlanta actually plays for the Atlanta Braves, but nobody cares. You know, you still Braves at and you go support the team and then yeah, I agree with you. Like I say, all this is so new is that it's going to take time for the public to find things and they're all going to kind of they'll all kind of tweak it as they go to make it better and better, which is like any product, right, I mean, the first iPhone is not as good as this iPhone. So I think
they'll tweak it and get it better. Mike McCarley, who you know, it's his his baby, you know, super smart guy, and you know, kudos for him what he did. But I think he'll make it better. I think he'll figure they'll figure things out and they'll just continue to tweak it. And you know, like I say everything, I'm I'm I'm pro professional golf. You know, the more opportunities, the better, And so that's what I hope we can always get. We can finally get to.
In addition to adding new regional teams, now the door is wide open for teams that are and and you know, TGL seasons to expand. As we've discussed co ed teams, why not could be could have a live team. Why not? Who cares? Right? Because you want to bring some of those top names in, you want to bring the personalities. Bryson would be a blast to watch there, I think. So now I'm sure ESPN is ecstatic, but now they have this huge volley. They only had a couple of
weeks of TGL. Why not do this? Okay, next season which starts next month, right exactly, we're going to do the LPGA on TGL, and we're going to do uh, you know, pro am, I don't know. You you can audition to play TGL, but I think there's so much room for additional seasons, not just once a year.
It could be like I say, it's like I say, I probably not. It's out of my pay grade to figure out exactly how much or what to do. You know, we talk about Texas. Can you imagine Scotti Scheffler and Jordan Spaeth and Bryce de Chambeau all live in Texas. They show up and now you've got a whole different deal. And again, something's got to bring unity to this game again,
and maybe TGL can play that part of it. You know that we can kind of get get past all this last this stuff mess we've been through the last four years and let's get back to you know, we got the Masters in a couple of weeks, and you're going to see all the best players in the world there not all of them there'll be some best players that won't make it for some reason. But as a rule, you're going to see the first first golf tournament with
those players back together. And I think we're going to all find that that's what the golf world wants to see, and we're going to have to figure it out. I don't again, don't know that, don't know the roadback, but that's what we're gonna have to get to.
Yeah, something, something's got to get interesting about it. So I have a suggestion. I'm you're the closest person to all of this. I have a suggestion that I thought was missing in the production of this of TG well, and it's real simple, and it has to do with hitting into the enormous screen sixty three feet hides. It's gigantic, thirty five yards away. It's hard to know. I think that there should be a sound effect for when the ball hits the screen that takes the ball from reality
to virtual to real to virtual. Right, So it's just like a when the ball hits the screen, it's like a all of a sudden, it's like, okay, now I've hit the screen, so we know how long it took for the ball to get from the player to the screen and then possibly even some sort of dot or some image of where the ball hit the screen. So like if they're doing a high.
Lob shot, a starburst right where.
It is, or something subtle, it doesn't have to be big, and it shouldn't be. It should be subtle. But it's just like, oh, okay, that's where it is. Like if they have to hit this seventy five yard shot, they hit it all the way to the top of the screen, versus hitting your you know, hitting out of their little sand into the screen from thirty five yards away. But they hit it low and it just made it over
the lip there. You know, something that gives you a sense of where it is, that takes you from reality to the virtual part of it.
I'll pass it along and if it's a good idea, you get the credits. It's a bad idea, they'll tell me another one of my bad ideas. Yeah, I don't think. Look, I don't think they're I think, well, I think they would. I mean, like I said, I think they will do things to make it better and better. I mean I'm sure they will. I mean this is they adjust it on the fly.
Yeah, I mean look at they did to the hammer. They changed the rules of the hammer almost immediately, and it was incredibly.
Effective, much better much, no question, it was much better, and that was a huge part. I don't know we'll ever see, you know, a live golf event with the with the hammer being thrown, but I mean it'd be kind of cool to watch it. I mean, that changed a lot of dynamics. But because I mean, when that hammer is thrown, it changes their whole Now it changes everything in a hurry. It used to be a game called woof that everybody played, you know, it was kind
of like that. It was not that pressure five foot or until they whoofed it either pick it up whatever. But yeah, I can say i'm i personally obviously for what they started out to do when the concept was there, And of course they had the building collapse last year, so they were delayed a year. And I was with Mike McCarley and actually mister Blanks when that happened, and you know, it was taken as okay, well that's okay,
we'll be ready to go next year. We'll be better prepared, and everything works out for the best type of thing. But nobody knew what it was going to be like anybody how it was going to come across on TV or and you know, it was a little bit more like hockey. To me, being live was different than watching it on TV a lot more, a lot more exciting because you can see it happening a little better because you can watch it. You can watch the reaction of the ball and the player at the same time, which
you can on TV. You know, you can see if the player likes it or not. And but all those things I think, are you know there might you know I've been a big proponent yeah, and again I have been for a long time saying, you know, I wish we would mic the golf backs on tour and how many times you could flip that thing on and listen to a caddy talk to the player and what was going on and how it was going on.
And then my lef.
You know, at Augusta you can watch every shot of every player online. You can watch I can watch Lucas hit every shot. I don't know what that technology technology cost. I don't know if he calls. It's played at the same place every year. It's easier, But can you imagine being able to watch a golfer. You want to watch Lucas Glover. I paid three to ninety nine a month to be able to watch him play every shot he wants to play. Listen to him and his caddy talk.
Listen to get into the game. You know, I still listen. I pay to listen to NASCAR. I don't watch much Nascar anymore. I don't have the time, but I will if i'm I will listen to a race because I can hear the driver and the crew chief talking and that's really exciting to me. Listen to what's going on. And I don't know how many people they want. Is it five million people that had the PGA tour out? How many people would pay three ninety nine or five ninety nine a month to be able to watch their
favorite player and you can watch it? You know I would. I mean that's what I do with the masters. If I'm watching online, I'm watching my guys play. I mean, I want to see what they're doing. It's kind of fun. But to be able to hear them talking, understand what they're going through when they're on number twelve trying to figure out the wind. You know, we had Lucas. Lucas was you know, he's really close to the lead that the players on Saturday and on number seventeen, I got
the hit it in the water. I don't know if you know this. He hit it short to hit back in the water. But after the round I got to talk to the caddy and I said, hey, what was going on there? And he goes, well, we had a we only had about a five or six foot place to hit it without hitting in the water. If you hit it on the top shelf, that's going over the water as the kid that playing it wheels out of the tourist, I think it was hit it on top of the shelf. It went long, Lucas went short, and
I'm like, what was going on? Said well, we knew our max was a fifty six when knew this, and we hit it. Lucas hit it perfect and that was the whole thing. And then I said, well look at the shot link what happened and his apex of the flight was eighty one feet and it didn't get above the grand stands behind him to fill the wind, so it never got to fill the wind and people and I mean that sounds kooky, but that's you know. So the caddy and Lucas had that one sixteen to one
twenty shot that he had to hit down wind. That's a fifty six. This is what we're going to do. And he hit it and it comes up short turns out. If it had been nine feet higher, it would have probably landed on the right spot. But those grand stands blocked the wind. Now excuse says, well, just what I'm saying. But that's fun stuff to know. I mean, you're going absolutely you know, I'm watching the stats of that. How
cool were the men to pop up? And that stats show that his ball apex at eighty one feet and it actually didn't catch the wind that they were seeing on the green, and that to me is fun stuff. He didn't miss it, he didn't. And then Wills Alataurus hits it what fifteen more feet or yards and his goes into water over said, there was just the greens were firm. There was just so little room for air. And what we also did was went and found one
of the best shots hit that day. I think it was a kid, Davis Thompson, and he hit the same club a couple mile an hour faster than Lucas, but he hit it fourteen feet higher. And he hit it ten feet and so we can go find the best shot. What were the perfect parameters of that to hit that shot and those things that are going on. That would be I think for fans that really cool to understand
what's going on. And we got the Tampa the next week, and obviously his fifty six was apex at eighty one feet and they were talking about do we get a different shaft to launch it higher? Do we these things? And Lucas just turned around and says, so what you're saying, you want me to hit it higher? I'll just hit it higher. How about that? You know? But yeah, So that to me is how do we capture the golf fan back. Give them something they've never seen before, give
them inside track. I mean, who would not want to listen to Jordan Spieth and his caddy every shot? I mean the thing you can see it going on. You can't hear them, but you I mean they're going over some stuff. Or Bryson Dcembau and his caddy. Can you imagine talking about the atmospheric pressure and the stuff that
they probably talk about. So, but you know, I'd said on another show, I say, you know, there's an Einstein quote that says no problem can be solved from the same level it was created, and I think that's what's happening right now. So I think both all the league, all of professional golf has got to come up with a different level to solve this problem. And I think winning the golf fan back should be first and foremost of the priority.
Again, one of my favorite parts of TGL was the hot mic situations or hot like segments where you got to listen to these guys discuss their strategy and again personality golf, team golf where you know you're not playing against each other, you're playing as a team against another team, but getting to hear them like that's one of the things that I love about when when Bryson had Phil
Michelson on or anytime Phil Michelson's on YouTube, he's fascinating. Absolutely, Yeah, he's just fat, he's so interesting, and he's he's so smart about his golf that you can learn so much from it and it's just so much fun.
Absolutely, team golf out there is usually the player in the caddy. The caddy, you know, I always you know, my theory on the caddy is, you know, people talk about this and that, and so we'll just imagine whatever pitcher Adam Waynwright or Tom Siever without a good catcher. And I called the caddy the catcher that's helping call
the call the pitches, and that's the team. When they're playing individual golf, it's essentially him and the caddy are teaming up to figure out what we're going to do, what pitch we throw in, what are we going to buil here? And it's the one thing is the difference is they can do it and then and then hit the shot that mirrors what they're trying to do. Most of us, most of us camp, but to watch these guys actually tell you where they're going to land the
golf ball. Lucas hit a shot. I don't know if you saw on the first day he shot sixty six. I think it was six hundred. He shot players on eighteen and the pin was left front and Lucas hit it probably twenty five feet right of there, a little long, and then of course rolls back to what five feet And I asked Tommy, the caddy has said, I said,
he hit his number there. He goes exactly where he said he was going to hit it exactly and I was like, and it gives you chills, Like that's what we said, We're going to hit it right there, and he did it and he goes and I meant, man, it give me chills. He goes me too. It's just but it goes back to how good these guys are, how precise they are with their yardages, how far they know they hit it, the how the most amazing things
they can do. And I wish we could bring it out and show you they're trying to do these things. Now obviously it's golf, they're not pulling it off all the time, but incredible, you're trying to hit this shot like this is a shot you're going to hit, and how they go about it and how they and then they do it all right, and they do it. So that's what I think we need to do. That's what's been interesting.
That was part of the interesting element of TGL is these guys now playing simulator golf. They're playing indoor golf, so their shots weren't doing exactly what they expected them to. And there were a lot of shots that just were like, how did that happen? You can see it in their face. Well, you're hitting from a flat lie always there's no win to work with. You just got to get the line right and stuff, and the yardage may or may not work some of the times.
He's missing some shot. I think everyone, I think, especially web shots. When you see a guy hit a web shot and it's four yards too short or too long, it didn't pick it up right because they don't get that. They don't know I mean they have to they have to miss a golf shot. I mean they're more in the two and three feet from one hundred and twenty five yards than four or five yards, And so you see guys hit a shot that they just there's just they don't that's out of their league to hit it.
That difference and they're the distance difference is not there. So but again I think the technology again will catch up with that. And again I'm not saying that maybe they did hit flyers, but I just watched some of them. They're just they're they're too far off.
But as somebody who as an average golfer, I kind of loved it. It's like, oh, you can screw up too, that's awesome. How do you deal with it? You know, you could see in their face they would hit the shot, and they would look at their team and was like, what what just happened?
What just And I when Lucas did his test match there, when he did his first first time in the thing, I got to go with him and all of it was playing kind of and then he hit a wed shot. I forget the number, but it went quite a bit further and he looked at me and he looked at the guy and he goes, you hit that, and he goes, now, I hit it one twenty I'll say one twenty seven. He goes, now I hit it one twenty seven and it flew one thirty two. That's something wrong. And the
guy looked at me. He goes, is he serious? I said, no, no, he's serious. He knows exactly how far he hit it. And all of them do. That's what makes them so great. And they don't need a machine to tell them they know. I mean, that's what's pretty scary. But I think it'll the technology wouldn't prove like and everything else, and you're going to have mistakes. But this is another thing about golf.
I tell people, have you know, I play golf with people and they hit a bad shot and I'm like, they think Tour players don't hit those because TV never shows you those shots. If they if you could watch every player play every shot, you would see some pretty god awful shots. We were talking about the Players Championship in the eighteenth hold how difficult it is, and it is right Cam Smith, Just Smith, Yeah, the kid Cam Smith.
The year Cam Smith won that golf tournament, he hit it in the water three of the four days on that whole Wow. And people don't And I tell people that, well you know why he couldn't hit that many bad shots and win. They go, yeah, they can, they do that, they hit bad shots.
Sure.
I think when Tiger won by fifteen in the two thousand and US Open, I think he made a triple on the second hole. If I'm not mistaken, it happens. I mean, and I think that would help too, to see that. I don't need to see every great golf shot. I mean, I think people do want to see the best players in the world hit one that just go sideways, you know, just oh, and it does. Oh I've seen. I don't know if every client has hit the top most of them have hit a shank, most of them.
I mean, it's a hard game. I mean I wish people knew how difficult it was. And so when you see these guys on when they are on, it is the magical thing that they can do what they're doing, I mean, and nothing that probably we experienced much in our life. But first of all, well, we never visualize what we're going to do that much like they are visualizing the shot they're going to hit every one of them. So we probably don't do that much. But when we do, how rare it is to pull it off almost exactly
how it looked. And most amateurs I see them do it just when they've got to hit over a tree or under a tree, and they're only visualizing that part of the shot, which makes them let go of the results. And then they hit this great shot over the trees where they were just trying to get it over the tree, which is kind of part of it right once it And so yeah, it's there's a lot of things we can do to make this get improved, this product, and
it's not knocking the old product. It just means, man, it's time to move on like it's.
Time because you've got it. You've got a different audience. It's not for everybody, but it could be for a lot different a different audience and a younger audience. Great, what do you think the long I mean, let's let's pretend that TGL is long term and it carries itself and continues to grow. What do you think the impact on simulator and indoor golf is going to be in the long run for you know, like indoor golf leagues, indoor golf venues all over the country. Do you think
there's going to be an impact there? I think so.
I mean, I know, you know, in Sun Valley, Idaho, where I've spent a lot of the winter, Sun Valley has an indoor they have indoor simulators obviously for snowing out there, and they have they have an indoor simulator
league already. My nephew lives out there. He plays on the team, you know, And so yeah, I think you're going to see more and more of that, especially in climates that's not like this climate where we can play twenty four to seven almost here, but up in the Northeast, I mean it's it's or you know, up in the Midwest, and you imagine like Thursday nights golf league and here we go, We're going to go play it you know, it replaced the gin game, you know, probably in.
Clubs and bowling, and could replace bowling. And that's why I think I think venues could open up with six bowling alleys, four simulator screens, a bar, a restaurant, a concert little you know, like Friday night concerts. Yeah, put in ping pong tables too, while you're at it. You know that's not going to corner space.
I don't know. I mean, I agree, and you said it very earlier. Is GoF as a whole is an entertainment package. It is a competition, but it's still entertainment, and I think we lose sight of that. So I saw Patent Gazarre, dear friend, he lives here, places here, had a little rough day and he punted his putter, you know, and if you've ever played golf, you've either punted a putter or wanted to write. And just one of the best guys you ever meet. And he came
out with an apology. And I was telling somebody, so what do you think about that? And I said, well, the only thing you should apologize about is that he probably could have kicked that pudder for their feet to try, and he didn't need to apologize for that. That is, if you haven't played this game for a living or played period period, you're going to do that. And that's personality. Look,
I mean, I'm not trying to condone kids punting. Everybody's well, kids will know pump putters, Well, they're going to punnelm anyhow, you know what, we might as well. But I think that the personalities and being authentic to who you are out there instead of trying to fit a mold, you know. I mean, you're going to see eruptions of anger. You're going to see these things because this, I mean, these guys are playing for their living. People don't realize when
they miss butts. It's it's a lot different than us, even though I think most of the club golfers here react the same way when they miss butts, but this is their lives. So yeah, I would love to just take the you know, take the training wheels off these guys and say, listen, this is entertainment. I mean I even saw Patrick Cantley get emotional. I mean, you know, it's fun because this guy means dang good golfer obviously,
and he looks pretty stoic most of the times. But it was fun to see him kind of like a smile. And you know, and remember when Tiger made that putt when he was Kevin Naw when he walked, you know, he got it out of the hole, was reaching in and he copied him on the seventeenth toe. And when Tiger did it, the laugh that Tiger had that was real. That was authentic laughter. And that's what this game is. I mean, even though they're in all that stress, I'd
like to tell these guys, listen, let it go. Man, be who you are and let's see what you got.
When you put the highlight reel together of the first season of TGL, you're gonna show pictures of Tiger not only screwing up, but laughing so hard he's doubled over again, bringing a back, bringing out and even finding guys like Horshel, like Tom don Kim, guys who have big personalities, right, are great for television.
Right.
You look at Can'tley and like, come on, dude, give me something here.
I know it's I mean, I mean, that's who they are. I mean, you can't you know that's who they they are, But they're but somewhere in there is is somebody's going to laugh, somebody's going to be mad. I mean, you know, but again, I think it's gotten to where I mean in the sense of they're all trying to fit in this mold of how much time. I think that's what
goth is taking so long to play as well. You know, it's like this this, and I mean these guys are I mean, they are good enough at golf to play faster, and they all need to understand that this is an entertainment package. And those people watching, those fans are their bosses. That's who they're that's who's paying their salaries. And these corporations that are putting all this money up there their bosses. So give them something, you know, spend a little extra
time with with you know, with these companies. I've always said that, you know, I've always kind of mean, you know, these players, they play, but you know, go spend a couple they spend thirty minutes in the Wells Fargo tent. Go around and introduce yourself and say thanks for coming out and be a part of this thing. And you know,
a lot of it doesn't happen anymore. I know, the tour tries to do a good job of that, but you know, I always say, these fans that are in your way and talking in your back swing, they're your bosses. Everyone's give you this opportunity to play god, because if they're not here, you're not playing for a lot of money, I can promise you. Right, But again, it's the whole inn. These guys understand that, look you are, you're you're more
of an entertainer than you're an athlete out there. I mean, if you don't believe it, John Day Lee Trevino, I mean, and again, and mister Nicholas was never animated, right, I mean, but he had Sevy and me. You know, like I say, there's it's okay to have a straight man. Somebody can be dull, but I mean you've got to have Sergio losing his mind. I mean, you got to have this happening. And and again Patrick.
Johnny Carson, right absolutely, And.
I've always you know, Patrick reed people Gosh, I can't believe any people say now good things. I said, Well, you haven't mad him. He is a nice kid. He's a nice guy. I mean, but when he's competing, he competes different than other people. But we need him too. I mean some I don't want to say this in a bad way. But he's kind of like a villain. And and you know he could win this Masters as
easy as anybody. He's playing good golf again, right, And so people hate this guy like that guy, And I said, great, hate them like them. I don't care, right, exactly, I've had exactly except for Davis Love, I've had clients. I've had. Most of my clients have people that don't like them when people like them. Everybody like Davis. So, but we
need that, we need we need more of that. And the only way to really do it is to be able to watch them hit every shot, not just when they hit a great shot, but put that camera on these guys and watch where they hit it. But see they're not scared to hit a bad shot because they know what to do when that happens. They're not concerned about their short game making being able to fix them. I had a client, I said, what's He says, what's going on with me? And I said, you're hitting too
many good golf shots? And he said, what's wrong with that? I said, you're not hitting any great ones because you're so protecting hitting bad shots that you're not hitting great ones. I said, the great players. They try to hit the great shot, and when they miss it, they know what to do to save themselves. And they're not mad at the miss. They knew they were taking a chance. So it's those kind of things that you keep I mean, these guys are how many greens did they hit on average?
Was it fourteen thirteen? So they're missing four and five greens around. I mean it's a rule as a rule, yeah, yeah, and we think they're perfect.
Well listen, Bud, I know how busy you are. I know what a hectic week this must have been for you, and you've got one coming up in two weeks with the Masters, and so I truly appreciate you making time to just take a conversation with me here, because beyond just talking about golf, I love talking with you about the business of golf. Yeah, that's really what I find the most fascinating.
So thank you, thank you much. Oh my pleasure. And I'm embarrassed to tell you that I'm busy. There are people that work much harder in their lives. I mean, I'll be in drel next week working, and then I'll be in Augusta working, and then I'll be in Hilton Head working and people. I don't anybody think that I'm illusing, that I'm not having the best time of my life. I just I have to like I'm trying a little bit so they don't think I'm not doing anything. But yeah,
so's it's busy, but man, it's a fun busy. This is the best time of the year. And baseball starts today. Final four is coming up. I mean, this is the kick off the fun for me.
You know, yeah, yeah, it's awesome. But well, Mac, I again, I truly appreciate your time and your friendship and maybe, just maybe we'll bump into each other in Atlanta or in Augusta when I get to my inaugural first time going and maybe my only time, but I get to check it off the list.
I'm going to the mass What a place. I mean, there's nothing. I mean, I see every golf course in the world. But buddy, everybody in our business, the players, the teachers, the trainers, the masters, is a big week. I mean it is. I mean there's no one not giddy that week. I mean, they let us on the grounds, you know, they allow me to be, you know, to be a part of it, and you know, there's so
many people that's never even got to go. I think this is my thirty third Masters or something wild, and you know, and and it feels like the first one. I mean, it's you when you get that little piece of paper that invites you to come. It's a pretty cool day really, So I don't anybody think I'm killing myself. It's it's fun.