What You Should Know About Conveyancing in Dubai

Ladies and gentlemen, please take your seats. The show's about to begin. Lauren, let's put on a show. Let's go. Welcome back to another episode of Golden Nuggets with me, your host Sylvia Eldarwie, where we go behind the scenes with some of the movers and shakers in the real estate industry. And today, I'm joined by someone who you want on your side once the deal is done.

Welcome Lauren Haddy, who's the founder and CEO of Chartered Conveyancing. And she's going to tell us about why you need professional conveyancing when you need it and also some juicy stories along the way, hopefully. Let's get into it. So Lauren, let's start with your background story. What brought you to Dubai? How did you get into conveyancing? Talk us through it. So I've been here for 15 years now. So I moved back. I had an insurance job at the time, moved over with my

company. Then I got an opportunity at one of the big or spas real estates do conveyancing in house completely junior. I went in, learnt, learnt the ropes, went from there. So I learnt from Heather, who's well regarded, still still around now. And yes, been a good few years there learning, like I say, doing everything, getting the deals across the line. As you've mentioned, dealing with lots of headaches. We were back in the land department in dearer then.

So a lot of running up and down Shakeside Road and doing all the fun stuff that comes with conveyancing. I then set up Ascot and Co with my now husband. We ran that for a few years. On the side of that, I decided to set up conveyancing as a separate entity. By then, obviously I'd got a few years under my belt, understood the the do's and the don'ts and and the benefits of having someone independent. We did that. We sold Ascot, I then had a couple of children.

I took a few years out. I didn't want to go back full time. So I went to work for Mina mortgages. So I did a bit of mortgage progression just part time around the babies and then eventually came back to the conveyancing and met my now business partner Andy. And we thought that let's give it a go, push it forward and, and here we are now two years on and. An all rounder then.

So you've dabbled. In yeah, agree, yeah. Conveyancing, mortgages, all of it. So tell us exactly what what? What is conveyancing and what's the difference between conveyancing and sales progression? Or is it just a fancy term for sales progression? So in Dubai is very, very similar. There's not too much different really. Obviously around the world, conveyancing is known as as a legal profession. It's, it's acted through law firms. It's a legal profession in Dubai.

Sales progression and conveyancing are very, very hand in hand. The main difference is just that conveyancers are independent, whereas sales progression are in house with the real estate companies. Got it both. Both job roles entail getting the property from signing that form F and getting the deal agreed to, getting it across the line. So dealing with developers, banks, the courts, you know whoever's needed to get the paperwork in place to get it

done. And the conveyancers or solicitors, Property solicitors are hated in the UK because they're seen as the reason why deals might take so long to cross the line. And the process in the UK can take up to 1218 weeks. But nobody represents themselves or is represented by an agent in the UK. It's all done by lawyers. I'm purely down to the sheer value of what's being transacted. So what would you say to people who think they can do it by themselves or their agent can do it?

They don't need anyone in their in their quarter. So it is quite a different process to the UK. There's a lot more hands on requirements in Dubai. So like I said before, going up and down Shakesover, we physically have to be in the developers offices, in the trustee offices with the banks chasing out papers. So there's a lot of time involved. The biggest, biggest thing that people will save both agents and clients is, is their time. So they're essentially, they pay

us for that. There's also, as everybody knows in Dubai, there's a lot of red tape, there's a lot of jumping through hoops that you didn't even know were there in the 1st place. So again, because I've been doing it a long time, because the team are very well experienced, they transfer, you know, many, many deals a month. We've got relationships with all of those people, like I said, the developers, land department, etcetera.

So if we don't know the answer, which is unlikely, we know exactly who to go to to get the job done. So again, it gets that deal done a lot quicker, a lot smoother than we're using it on your own with an agent, for example, a lot of the agents out there extremely good, you know, extremely experienced, know what they're doing. However they maybe transfer one or two deals a month, just, you know, that's the nature they're out viewing that they're onto

the next property. And I'd say we're probably doing 4050 + a month. So that experience and that exposure to all these different problems and, and hurdles is there and, and like I said, then we've got the answers to help. Them through it. So you are the problem solvers basically. 100% yes. I mean, I mean ideally most deals will just go through through seamlessly. I would say maybe 10% of deals go through seamlessly. Yeah, there are. The systems here are amazing and

and it's come on a long way. There's so many improvements, you know, not digital, yeah, everything is electronic cetera. And that's great if it all works as it should, but it doesn't always work as it should. And then it's a case of who do you go to? Where do we go? What what's going to happen now? How do we get around this? And that's, that's what we coming. It's sort of I sort of say it's like an insurance if you like you're going to pay us, you don't want to use us.

You hope that it's smooth and it it's fine, but the chances are yeah, we're going to need someone there holding your hand if. It's not something that AI is likely to replace then. Is I'm having problems with AI at the moment because ChatGPT is telling clients a lot of misinformation. So yeah, I've had a few disagreements, should we say, with clients where I've had to, you know, prove why that's wrong and and what's the correct way of doing things. So.

What was ChatGPT falsifying? Legal advice.

Really. Yeah, it's OK. Obviously it's collecting information from the Internet, but the Internet, so many people have put different things on there. It could be 10 years old. Yeah, to buy so fast-paced. Things change within days here. So it's our duty to kind of feed ChatGPT with the correct information and start blogging and start putting information out. Yeah, 100%. And I'm sure that's going to improve over time. But yeah, it's always important to have someone on the ground

who knows. And Speaking of time, you've been doing it since 2011, so 14, 14 years. And we're a fast moving industry especially like I don't think the process has changed at all in the UK in the last 1420 years. How many changes have you seen since and how have they affected what you do? Some of the some are good, some are great, some are. Yeah, I'd, I'd say most are positive. I think there's still a lot of changes to be made. I think there's still a lot of improvements we can can achieve.

But yes, certainly that time like I said my mention, we used to be down in Deira at the the mainland department there still a few conveyances now we used to battle over the office, you know, put our papers on top of each other's and fight to get in. It was like a cattle market. It was chaos. And I would carry around big bags of files with with all these original documents that needed. Probably in Arabic. In Arabic. Yeah, exactly.

If you lost your original title deeds, you'd have to advertise in the Gulf News that it was, you know, all these procedures like that, they've now slowly gone away, which is, which is great. It speeds up the process. The digital title deeds make it a lot smoother, more streamline. So yeah, most of it I would say is, is digital changes, which is

great. There's also a few procedure changes they've bought in the blocking process of the years which helps protect buyers who are paying off sellers mortgages in advance, which is something that doesn't happen in the UK so. So what was life like before that? How risky was it? Very risky, yeah. So, so you use an example, I had a client they bought in Jamir Islands at the time, I think it's 15,000,000. So back again, back in 2011, it

was a big, big ticket property. The mortgage was maybe 14,000,000. We paid it off. We then waited for the clearance documents from the sellers bank, which is the process. So two weeks later, the clearance documents didn't come. The bank then told us. Then after, well, actually there's three court cases against this property. We went to the land department. They said yeah, OK, we've now found it as well. But they're not it wasn't automatically linked, sorry.

So it, we found it later. So obviously this buyer had already put down 14,000,000. We then spent maybe a good 6 to 8 weeks working on Edge. On Edge. Yeah. I didn't sleep that whole time to get those court cases cleared. Luckily there was, it was under a million. We managed to manoeuvre it and, and it was fine. But the seller went missing for a while. There was a, you know, at the time the buyer thought he'd lost that money. It was, yeah. So now you've got blocking. Just explain what?

Yes, now we, we will get, still get the paperwork, we'll get the NOC before we'll get the liability letter from the sellers bank, which explains how much is outstanding. And we can go to the land department at that point, declare everything, show the the form F, get all the documents logged and then the land department will check on their system. Yet there's nothing else blocking the system blocking the property.

Sorry, we'll block it. You go and clear the loan and then bring the clearance documents back. So in that time there's a yeah, about a two week period. It's it's still owned by the the seller, but it can't go to anybody else. It can't have any other blocks put on it anything else against it. So the buyer is safe. And digital signatures, that's another thing. Yeah, it's all done with your Emirates ID, so fingerprints there or they can give a remote

power of attorney as well. Remote power of attorney and remote tenant evictions as well you can do. Now, yeah, we can do that as well now. So, yeah, a lot. Though again, all those digital changes means that overseas clients, it's a lot easier for them. There's there's less hassle of having to fly in for various appointments or stay for long periods of time. They can just do a video call from where they are and get that.

And get it done. Yeah. And and that's the other thing change that you've probably seen since 20, 11 is golden visas. Yeah, rise of international buyers. Yeah, I mean, I, I've always

primarily worked with international buyers, I'd say because conveyancing is known again overseas as a more more renowned industry. So yeah, that's, that's always been around. But yeah, there's more a variety of nationalities coming in now. Yeah, you have crypto buyers, you have. Crypto Bros. Crypto Bros Yeah. What? The kind of changes or the evolution?

To the buyers, yeah, yeah, Obviously just the quantity as well, the amount of buyers that are in, the amount of deals we are dealing with, the amount of brokers that are out there. There's so many small, small entities, people pop up on their own, set up on their own, which is great for us. They need need someone like like us to step in and help. But yeah, I would say that's how it's evolved.

It's a, it always surprise, always been fast-paced, but it feels like it's getting faster as well. Everyone's impatient, want things done, wants things done quickly. Yesterday, yeah. And Speaking of those foreign investors, what should be on every foreign investors checklist when they're buying in Dubai? So, so the main things really is as I mentioned, are they going to come into the country to complete or will they give power of attorney?

A lot of overseas investors don't realise that you have to be here in person. So that's a big one to to factor in either those costs for a power of attorney or or the time scales to be here. Also moving funds is is a massive 1. So with the new sort of a AMLKYC etcetera, cheques in Dubai, money can take longer to come over. There are registered escrow companies here that can help or they can have a bank account set up here. But if they're going to set one

up, that takes time. Again, it's just all those factors of of making sure they know what they need to do to get it in place before before we get to that transfer. And you can act as power of attorney. We can act as power of attorney, yet we we actually recommend it. It shouldn't be done by the brokers. I know there's a lot of brokers that that do do it, but the Land Department states that it should be done by a, a third party or an outside party not related to the contract.

So we can take that. How they all getting away with it then? I think they all cancel the form FS at the transfer, which isn't ideal for either for them to protect their commissions or for the buy or seller. If there's any problems at the transfer it they're no longer in contract so it's it's not something we advise. Risky business. Then do not act as power of attorney if you're involved in the transaction. Yeah. And again, it's a minimal cost, especially for an overseas buyer.

It's cheaper than them flying, you know, paying for a flight at a hotel, etcetera. So it's to protect them and make sure it's all done properly. It's it's worth it. OK. Anything else for an investor should know? Just the timing again, I think agents are very obviously naturally they want to sell, they're very quick to give the shortest time frame possible.

And whilst, yeah, some cash to cash deals we can do in a day, maybe that's very, very small amount. And, and there's a lot of sort of, as I said before, hurdles to go through. And it's just making sure they're aware that these are going to take time and, and to trust their convenience or their agent while they're here. Well. Let's talk about time scales, because as you mentioned, you've got cash to cash, which should be quite quick. You've got four different

scenarios, I'm guessing. I would probably put that to 6:00 just because you have off off plan sales as well. OK. So I'll I'll go from also, yes. So cash to cash is your quickest, not always just smoothest, but should be. Yeah, essentially we can do it in one to two days depending on the developer. You get an NOC from the developer and then you go to transfer. OK, super easy.

Yeah, as long as money's here, etcetera, that's that's all good to go. You have mortgage buyers, cash sellers, again, depending on the bank or mortgage buyers side, sorry, it can be, they should always have their pre approval before they sign their form F. So if as long as they've got pre approval, we can do the valuation in a week, get the final offer letter and then transfer. So again, depending on the bank, maybe two to four weeks on the

turnarounds. When you have a mortgage on the seller's side, it becomes longer. So you have, I would say both cash buyers and mortgage buyers a similar time frame, maybe 8 to 10 weeks. Some banks maybe stretch that out to 12 weeks. There's so many variants to to go into and then you have off plan sales now. So a lot of properties have been completed, but they had post handover payment plans.

So on those there's a slightly different procedure either with cash buyers having to put down post dated cheques for the payment plan with the developer or mortgages, sorry, banks paying off the payment plan with the mortgage amount. And there's a lot of laying around that they're a little bit trickier and making sure the right money is going to the. Right person. Do you charge the same amount for cash to cash, mortgage to mortgage?

Or cash to cash we do a slightly cheaper great, but if there's a mortgage involved we always charge the same and. When you get one on your desk and it's mortgage to mortgage, you're like, oh. No, they're the most common, to be honest. Again, because we deal with the banks. It's fine. We've got some good friends. Got different, yeah, got some connections. If we've got a really big problem, we can call someone up and plead and beg and get things

through. It's most of the people who use us. I would say the majority are end users. So they're going to buy with the mortgage. So that's it's very common. So one thing that I'm a little bit curious about that I, you know, I know how it works in the UK and I'm assuming it's going to work the same here eventually, but we're now at that level of maturity that we should start talking about it is remaining years on leasehold properties.

So in the UK, typically you buy something with a 99 year lease, Great. Once that gets down to 80 years

and below, it actually makes it harder to mortgage, hard to sell, it reduces the value of the property. Now Dubai has been selling leasehold for since when 2000 and yeah, 1520 years, 20 years, yeah. So we must be at that stage where some leasehold properties do have 80 years remaining on the lease. And it's quite common in the UK to have leasehold extensions because just for everyone who doesn't know, at the end of that 99 years, it's supposed to go back to the freeholder.

Ownership of that property goes back to the freeholder. It doesn't get passed down to generation. You know, your, your, your heirs. So we need to start thinking about that. Is there anything in place or are you hearing any talks? About there's a lot of talk, there's always been a lot of talks, especially in the areas such as green community. There are areas like Silicon Oasis now JLF where you can apply to the land department to convert it into freehold.

You, you get valuation of the property, you can pay a percentage and and convert it. So there's definitely changes that have been put in place with areas such as green community that hasn't been implemented yet. And there is no concrete answer on what will happen. Obviously, the theory is that that will follow those footsteps of silicon waste and they'll have the chance to buy the freehold or as you say, it will go down to, yeah, the UK

policies and extend the lease. But yeah, as of now, it's not. We keep our eye on it and they're listening and speaking to the right people. But as of now, they haven't got that. Decision yet? Well, if you hear anything, let us know. Watch it. Yeah, we're all maturing together. OK, let's talk about form F Fails. So form F, well, everyone has their own abbreviation for it, but let's assume it's form finalised Deal. Yeah, not the other F word.

But let's talk about some form F fails. What are the most common mistakes you're seeing? Like what? When you're when you're getting a form F in front of you, what are you looking for and thinking? Oh my God, I can't. Believe so, yeah. We jump straight to the special conditions. That's so we have to, you know, scan through them, make sure see what's in there. The biggest problems for us is tenancies.

So where the agents have, should we say, skimmed over the, the rules of the tenancy or not informed the buyer. So for anyone who doesn't know, so any tenant here, they're to evict them, you need to give 12 months notice for one of three reasons. As a, a new buyer, sometimes they think that doesn't apply and they can just kick the tenant out. Or more often than not, we, we get a form of saying the seller has said they'll tell the tenant to leave or they'll evict the tenant.

And then when we speak to the seller, they'll, I didn't agree that or you know, that wasn't done or the tenant actually he's, we've agreed A2 year leave. I don't know, you know, all these things come up and it hasn't been looked into properly, essentially.

So that is our biggest headache because as a buyer to protect the buyer, if they don't know those laws and they think, right, we're going to buy this property and then we're going to move in, in three months, they're going to have a shock because obviously that's not the case. So that's our biggest one is make sure everyone knows what's happening with the tenancy and and knows that the security deposit's going to be handed over the documents there,

etcetera. I would say timelines are also our biggest one of our biggest problems. Again, as mentioned earlier, agents love to get what they want to get the deal done and don't blame them. They want to get their Commission in and it's all good. But putting a three-week Form F transfer date on a mortgage to mortgage deal, it's just not going to happen. And then obviously we have problems with the clients who've again accounted for that money to go to the next purchase or

you know, things like that. So chains are becoming more common now. When I first started, it was never really around. People just bought one, waited for the money and then so sorry, sold one and then bought the next one. Whereas now it's, yeah, it's very common. We've got maybe I don't know, 6 or 7 deals at the moment which are in a chain of three or four. And and yeah, it's managing those timings going through.

And in the UK we used to see chains like 6-6 properties deep just to explain what a chain is. So it's when well at the bottom of the chain you'll have a first time buyer likely. Or a cash buyer. Cash buyer. Someone nice and easy at the bottom, yeah. And then the next person needs to sell that property to facilitate their ongoing purchase, as does the next

person, as does the next person. So if that chain collapses, which is something that we're quite used to in the UK, like one person, one goes wrong, it just ruins the whole whole chain. So we're now seeing that here. Yeah, I'm seeing a lot more. And what I would say it's not so much that it collapses. I'd say it's quite a small percentage of deals that don't go through. But what happens is the first one is delayed. So somewhat the the cash buyer, his funds were delayed coming in

from, I don't know, overseas. So therefore that added two or three weeks onto that. So then by the time you get to the end of that chain, you're maybe 6-7, eight weeks out, and that's a big difference again for people. So even more so when you're in a chain, make sure that your dates account for or your deadlines account for everybody else in the chain. Yeah, exactly.

I I would say just as a bit of advice for any any buyers or sellers is always add on a couple of weeks to whatever your agent tells you anyway just for that security of and Peace of Mind. Things do take longer than than we like in to buy sometimes. So better to be done and finished early then panicking. Yeah. And from your experience, what's the top reason? What that causes most deals to fall apart at? The same I, I'd say the percentage is small for deals

that actually do fall apart. Again, being problem solvers, there is always a way there's there's some some negotiation or some loophole, something we can do to, to get it through. I'd say 9 times out of 10, the biggest thing would be would be timing. So banks are are a big problem at the moment. They take making a lot longer than they used to and therefore than that we expect and adding 2-3 weeks onto a you know, a wait period for a final offer

letter. The seller gets put up, the markets moving up, he wants more money. Cash buyer comes along. Cash buyer comes along and and then you cut your mortgage buyer can't match that money. You know, they're they're offer doesn't allow it. So that would probably be the biggest, yeah. Biggest are you? Are you seeing a lot of gazumping going on? Not loads.

Again with the Unified Form FS. That was a great improvement, I think because it really does look lock sellers in and they it, it physically puts a block on their property so they can't sign another form F for someone else. So that's a massive help for security. But there's definitely a lot of discussions. So yeah, if you reach that point where the form F is near expiring, the seller will ask and and he has that opportunity

to to negotiate. Yeah. And most people might think you don't really necessarily need a conveyance. So when it comes to off plan property, is that correct or would? You yeah, if you're buying from the developer, then yeah, there's no real need. It's, it's a very streamlined process. There's the, the escrow accounts are set up with the land department fully legalized. So no, the, the sales and purchase agreements are very black and white. That's it. You can't really change much anyway.

So no. But if it's secondary, as I mentioned before, then yes, because there's a lot of back and forth with the developer for those. So when it comes to off plan, there's two types of delays. You've got delays on handover, but you've also got people that delay making their payments or are unable to make their payments. Yeah.

What happens in this scenario? Yeah, I think a lot of people who buy off plan have it in their head that they're going to make a payment, you know, make the first payment and then sell it before it gets to the next stage. Which is what they've been promised by a lot of agents. Exactly, yeah. And by the time it gets to that, they then sell it. But that next payment is now overdue with the developers, most of the big developers, you have to pay that off before you transfer the property.

So again, having a conveyancer involved means we can make sure there's enough safety precautions put in place. 9 times out of 10, the buyer will pay that off on behalf of the seller. It's all about communication, making sure they know they're paying in advance. But like I said, we'll, we'll speak to the developer, get the right provisions put in place, get security checks, etcetera.

But they can be quite sticky situation, OK, I suppose again going back to the question you asked about the agents, that's the bit of a red flag if the agents haven't brought that up with the buyer and then suddenly they're being asked to pay money ahead of when they thought that can cause. Issue. OK, All right, let's talk about something a bit more positive now. Gifting. Property gifting. Yes, gifting these days. Yeah, we do. We get quite a few gifting enquiries.

So gifting is where but you give give the property. You give it as a gift, which obviously everyone would love to. Who's doing that? There's only a a few people you can do it to. So husband to wife or vice versa or directly up or down in your family. So it's not your mother, father, or you can do it to your your children.

OK. The only exception to that is you can gift to a company if you are the sole show. How so? If you have the title in your name completely and you own that company completely, you can move it from one to the other. So for tax reasons, a lot of people. So what is that little hack? So if you own a company and you are the 100% shareholder, you can gift the property from your name into that company name, which we're finding a lot of people are doing now for tax

reasons. They set up SPVS or companies, put the property in the company name and it. Is that to to not avoid reduce tax in their home countries? Yeah, it means. But doesn't that expose them to corporate tax here? Again, I'd need to speak to a full company expert, but no, there there is Let's. Get a tax expert. And then that could be the next one. But there's, there's different ways. But yeah, there's there's something called an SPB, a special.

Purpose Vehicle. Yeah. And yeah, that it helps with those. Matters. OK, right. So gifting up or down? Yes, yes. Or sideways to. Not sideways. You can't give to a brother or sister. OK, only has mother. Father or children OK, but they're the main reason being is you save the 4% transfer fees instead of paying that it's naughty .125% of the property value. So it's a a significant difference. So could that be something to consider if you're getting older rather than?

Yet yeah, to avoid the inheritance again probate here is is a quite a headache in a long process. So it could be for those reasons. Again, some people do it for tax reasons just to move it out of their name. OK, and well, let's talk about inheritance. How? How complicated is it? It's complicated. Yeah, Yeah. Depends on what religion you are as well it. Depends. There's yeah, again, there's so many factors, but yeah, essentially if if you die, your property will go to your airs.

If you have a will in place, it can be more straightforward, if not various. We tend to see by the time it comes to us, we see a property either with someone who's passed away on the title deed and then we have to go through that or it's already gone through the probate session and we've got 10 names on that title deed where it's gone to the children there,

brothers or sisters, whoever. So obviously you can't sell a property if it's a disease person or the title deed, although technically with the form, if someone could accept the, the signature, we, we can't get any further than that. So we have to go through that takes maybe 3 to 9 months most

times. I would say they have to get the the other courts will will decide who it goes to and then that new title deed is issued. 9 times out of 10, the title deed is then in a miner's name, which then causes another layer of paperwork. And miners here are under 21. Under. 21 not yet under 18, no. So yeah, under 21, so miners can sell the property, that's fine. They again, they will have either another parent or a responsible adult looking after

them. But to sell it has to go through the Dubai family courts as well, right? So the courts will protect their money and make sure that it's not a distressed sale, not not sold undervalue. So for that we have to get a letter of execution from the courts before we can then get to, to the the normal transfer process. So again, you're looking at maybe an extra 8 to 10 weeks on on a property transaction for

any minor. So for an expat buying over here, would you recommend they all get wills done? A. 100% yeah. Any. With or without a mortgage. With or without a mortgage, yeah, 100% because you've got an asset here and you want to want to make sure it goes to the right person. Again, there's some great wills companies that that give good advice and go through it, but it's, it's inexpensive in the grand scheme of things. It can be done quite quickly.

It's definitely worth doing. So I think that again, in the UK, that's like a prerequisite. Yeah, and it's something people talk about in the UKI think without worrying, whereas here it's a bit of A to be subject, but no, it's massively important. OK, and what about divorce?

Any divorces? Yeah, we get a lot of divorce cases, obviously. Yeah, sadly, people do get divorced. I don't think I've had an amicable property sale when it's been a divorce. I've had many cases where I've had to sit people in different rooms. I've had to, you know, yeah, move from one to the other. I've had people yelling at each other in the land department. That was a fun one, yeah. I mean. Because you need to get approval from. Both, they're both owners of the

property. They both have to sign them again the the property depending what share they have, usually 5050, they can get separate checks in 5050, but we have to, to go through all that. So you're a bit of a therapist, a bit of an agony aunt, and yeah. And everything in between. Exactly. And I suppose you're the one that has to break any tough news. Yes to the agent or. Yeah, You're, you're, you're. Yeah, yeah, tough news is part

of the job. Unfortunately, like I said, things don't go to plan most of the time, so there's always someone upset about something we're going to say. But for me, the biggest, biggest part of this role is communication. If you can pick up the phone and speak to people, you know, you're a human being as well. Yes, there might be anger, there might be stress, but we'll get through it together. That's, you know, my motto and.

And yeah. And swallow the frog, as they call it. Oh, I've not had that one. Yeah, that's like, do it first thing in the morning. Don't delay it. Oh yeah, for me say like you mentioned, you could sit up all night wiring router, just do that phone call and and get it out of the way and then you can tackle the problem. Sorry to give you PTSD but what was that one call you had to make that you were like Oh my God how am I going to explain this one?

I've had a few. I'm being that, yeah, the deal where I met my, my now business party, Andy, we worked on a deal together. That's how how we met. That was actually one of the hardest deals both of us have ever done. I was on the buyer's side, he was on the seller's side, and the buyers had a mortgage and joint names. The wife worked for the UN, so she was posted somewhere, then couldn't come back for six weeks. She'd like just legally not allowed to, to leave. We then had to change the

mortgage over to a single name. He had to travel, so we did some manager's checks, but then he was granted, I think 70% rather than an 80% mortgage. So there was a lot of calls in that one, both to to my buyers with the bank and then also with the seller breaking it to him. That was another week added, another week added. Uncomfortable. OK, And then let's talk about costs. So what should clients or agents budget for when it comes to a proper conveyancer? And what does that fee actually

cover? So conveyancer fee can range

because this, as I've mentioned before, so many different types, but really anything between 2 to 3000 up to maybe 1012 thousand is probably the maximum really that you should pay that will cover everything that comes in between. So as I mentioned, the agent will pass us all the the documents once it's signed and agreed.

And we're there hands on every day up until the end point, making sure, like I said, the developers are covered, make sure all the service fees are paid, any chiller fees are paid, mortgages outside, we can go and get the liability letters. We're in the banks chasing if, if they haven't delivered on time, making sure all the documents go to the trustee, getting everything accurately checked, translated if we need to. I mentioned companies earlier,

they can be a lot trickier. There's a lot more layers of documents there. So we'll liaise with all of the relevant authorities on that. And yeah, just making sure that everything is done as smoothly and quickly as it can be, essentially. So that's for you to do your job. What can agents do to make your job simpler? Come back to communication

again. The best agents to work with are ones who want to know what's going on, but are happy and trust us to to do what we can so we can have that level of communication. We can work as good cop, bad cop if we need to with a client. We're all on the same page, singing. Yeah, singing the same hymns, they say. Red flag for me is agents who just Chuck the documents and run away. They don't want anything to do with it. I know they've they've paid for conveyancing service, but they

know the client. A lot of the times an agent has worked for the client for maybe 3-4 months before we get the deal. We're brand new. They might know little things that help us break something, you know, break some news to someone. Or just balance it correctly really, I suppose. OK, all right, So advice that you can give to agents who want to level up their post sale process? So work with good conveyancers, work with experienced conveyancers who can help teach and guide along the way.

Don't, don't shy away from the from the conveyancing process. Yes, trust your conveyancers and let them do the, the legwork, but ask questions. Go to a transfer. If you've never been to a lot of agents I've worked with who've never been to a transfer, go and see see what happens. It helps in the sales process. Ultimately, if you can explain to someone what's going to happen next, it makes the whole

deal smoother. So. Represent both parties in the transaction. Yeah, we can here. Yeah, OK. Yeah. And I actually find that easier because then you've got everything and you can juggle everyone together. Whereas when you've got we, we work with other conveyancers and agents.

That's no problem, but they might not work in the same style as us, or not as quickly as us. And so a lot of agents that are going on, on secondary agents, let's say going on listing appointments, how can they sell the conveyancing package to their seller? Yeah. So I would say to sell it from that point actually. So as soon as you meet the client, they'll start asking what fees do we need to pay? Add it in there.

So you gonna have your transfer fee, your trustee fee, your conveyancing fee, drop it in there straight away. Explain the difference of, you know, a convenience with someone who's going to look after you afterwards. They know the paperwork like the back of their hands and then it's it's always dropped in along.

It's it's not. Again, a lot of agents will wait right to the end and then sneak it in the form F And then of course we're going to have problems because they think it's an add on. They don't see the benefit. I mentioned again earlier, sorry about insurance. You sell it as an insurance policy. You don't want to use them, but if you do need them, they're there and call us as well if they need to. If the client's unsure, they don't know who are. Let's have a conversation with them.

A lot of clients like the fact that we're independent. We don't work for the agency. We could be separate. They, they have a conversation with us. They, they know again, we're human beings. We're people, we're nice people and we can sell ourselves to them as well. So work, work with us and be a team. So do you, do you work with mostly boutique brokerages or have you got some big players on? We do a bit of both actually. So yeah, primarily boutique because they don't have in

house. So they they like having that trusted partner to to work with. But we have also we do a lot of overflow so big agencies have in house, but maybe some of their in house go on holiday at the same time or someone's sick or whatever and actually they've suddenly got 40 deals. They don't know what to do well. I see like supply chain teachers. Exactly. Supply teachers. Exactly. Yeah, supply chain teachers. So, yeah.

So we, we do that as well. We've also got some agents that we've just known for a long time and got a good relationship with. They may move companies and go to a big one, but they still use us as they trust us and we've built that rapport with them. So if if there was ever a year where you'd have had had to step in as supply teachers, this year isn't it? Yes. This year has been a busy one, yeah.

And if someone's got their own, if they've got in house sales progression and they're under pressure to sell that service, you won't really feature, will you? No, they they, yeah, they have their own, their own cost and their own prices. But you might be like. Yeah, like I say, I just for me having done both because I did in house for for most of the beginning of my career.

I think independent is massively important for clients because it's you have got someone truly looking after your interests in house. Of course they want to get the deal across the line, but they want to get the agency's Commission across the line. That's their main priority. Whereas for us, yes, it might be annoying, we might have to take a few more boxes, but you know, it's done completely safely and, and securely and, and we're there.

Brilliant. OK, we want some juicy stories or funny stories from the transfer table.

Oh, OK. The biggest one I think was the one I mentioned before. So I had, yeah, a divorced couple who would not sit in the same room with each other. He was actually quite nasty in the end and took a bigger portion of the the fees. So there was a physical fight in the land department. So that was. No way that was. Interesting. That was back in Dearest. So that was that was an interesting one. What else have I got? They're not particularly juicy because it's people's lives.

Yeah, you're dealing with it. Yeah. There's a lot of fights over money. A lot of people can get very emotional when they're buying or selling property. So yeah, we we definitely have to deal with a lot of tears, tantrums. You're probably just used to it. It's. Probably it is. It's. Yeah, it's. Probably juicy stories to everybody else, but yeah, it's just like another day in the office. Exactly. Do you think it's quite bland like property management?

No, I, I think the reason I've stuck at it for so long is because it is different every day. It's different. Every client is different, who you're dealing with. They've come from completely different walks of life. They've got their money different ways. So yeah, it's it's interesting, really. And tell us about a deal that you saved from collapse. Every day. Every. Day. That's what I do. But yeah, but it is that's,

that's every day. Every day there is something on a deal that is someone is arguing over or someone is threatening to get a lawyer involved or yeah, or not go to an appointment. So that becomes a day-to-day thing for us, really. And do you think that you probably save more deals than and of course, you probably save

more deals than an agent could? Yeah, yeah, I think that's fair to say because we're dealing with a lot more deals than an agent is. But I would say, I'd say the majority of deals aren't on the verge of collapse all the time.

Even if people are fighting, like I mentioned before, there is always a way there's you need to understand what their motive is, what they're, what they're actually upset about and then you can tackle it. And I think again, the majority of cases both buyer and seller wanted to go through. That's why they signed the Form F in the 1st place. We deal with a lot of emotional management, shall I say. What is it? The three things in life, Death, divorce and buying and selling house.

It's the most stressful. So we're dealing with hundreds of people every day who are doing that. And that, yeah, comes with a, like I mentioned, a lot of tantrums and tears. So we have to be sort of everyone's counsellor and. So how do you manage to stay sane during all of this? Yeah, I'm quite a patient person. I've. You need to be. Yeah, I've had a lot of practice dealing with my husband over the years. He's quite a difficult character.

I've got two small children. I think anyone will say the same. If fighting fires left, right and centre, yeah, it just becomes part of it. Just deep breaths, yeah? Breathwork. Breathwork. Yeah. Interesting. OK. And finally, what do you wish agents knew about conveyancing,

sellers knew about conveyancing, and buyers knew about conveyancing? Agents, just that we're on your side. We're not the enemy. We're not trying to find fault. We want the deal to go through. We want to close it. We just want everyone to be safe and, and secure buyers and sellers the same. But it's just that we're there to help. Sorry, not to hinder. We're there to to do things smoothing and efficiently and, and to trust us. Really just know. I know again, there's a lot of

information out there. People think they know better, but just let us do what we can do. And do not ask ChatGPT Yes. Exactly. Yeah, please just ask. I don't mind if you ask another conveyancer, but yeah, go to reliable sources to get your information. Brilliant. Well, there you have it, the woman that you need in your corner once that deal has been done. Thank you very much, Lauren, for educating us on. Thank you. What goes on behind the scenes?

And yeah, next time we need some more juicy stories. Get some. Yeah, I'll see what I can find. So yeah, reach out to Lauren if you've got any queries or not just any random queries. Yeah, Any queries? Yeah. Any gold? Yeah, Golden Bees is eviction notices, properties, anything you need, property gifting, property gifting, dancing, just any property questions. Okay, there you go. I'll leave the details down below. Thank you very much so much. Hope you enjoyed that episode.

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