Lily Craven my guest for the evening. You know exactly where you can find her at Lily Craven. Links to all of our social media are in the episode description. Make sure you support the creators that come on this show, otherwise they stop coming on the show. Lily, it's a real pleasure to have you on tonight. Thank you for having me. We had some fun discussion off camera. But let me start with let me start with the basic, boring question, just so I can kind of establish a
baseline of your career. How did you initially get into the adult entertainment industry in whatever form it was, whether it was dancing first, you went right into shooting porn, you did camming, you were swinging. What is your entrance from a vanilla life into this industry?
Okay, I have a good one. You know, most of us have a quite fascinating story on how we got into it. But I started off selling out of my Facebook inbox, and I have I still run a group. It's called camp Morning Wood and it's our way. We only use camping lingo and you can buy content from the counselors in the inbox. So I did that, and then I caught a bam for three months and I freaked out. I was like, oh my god, you know, what do I do? What do I do? And I
had a friend, Thank you, tyson. My friend said, have you ever heard of chatterbait? And I was like no. He's like, it's webcam modeling. I'm like, no, I've never heard of it. So he was like, here, let me show you. And I was like, oh my god, I could do that. So I started on chatter bait and I didn't say why. So anyways, the reason I got into all this was because I had a cheating next
husband and I wanted revenge. So I ended up, you know, packing my shit up, going to Hollywood for the Why Not Summit and I sat in the smoking section where everyone sits and they're smoking something or another, and I started chatting and I met like Will Ryder and Katie Morgan and Evan Stone and they were all out there, and that's how I got my foot in the door.
So personal, keep anything personal you'd like to keep personal. But I got to dig into this a little bit. No, please go ahead. It was was it a one time cheating event, was it a continuous thing? Was it a cold Play concert where he got caught with his HR person. I don't know if you've seen that news story.
Yeah, oh i've seen it. No, did you know? Not off topic?
By the way, you can get off topic all you want, please do. So what happened with that story with the CEO? It was cold Play that was contacted by the wife that she found out that they were going to be there.
Wait a minute, there's a whole other layer to it.
Yes, so they said, yeah, the wife set it up. Wow, So people are hating on Coldplay, but they're like after she described everything and said they had been married for twenty five thirty years and that they know this is going she knows this is going on, and that they're supposed to be at the concert, and so that was like set up deliberately.
Did you see his wife too? She was gorgeous. Yeah, total not you. No, there was an old Bill Maher joke. There's an old Bill Moore joke and apologies it's a little crass, but it was something about it doesn't matter what kind of pussy you're getting. It's not as good as new pussy, is what he always used to say. And it's you know, I've been in a committed, non cheating relationship for about nineteen years. I think it is
for you. I think I said a lesser number last time, and my wife was like, hey, fuck, oh you need to buddy. Yeah, when were you into this thing? But it's like, uh no, I just I personally go like, there's too much risk, get in trouble, and I like my wife, you know, yeah, So can I ask you? And this is this is you know?
Please?
Your situation was it?
Yes?
Do you think? I don't know if you know the details on his side of it, but your situation was it just you had been together a long time? Was it something fell out of the marriage a little bit? Again?
We were totally just I think we were two years into it and I was so into him. He was like my everything. He was such a good husband. Like I was absolutely blindsided. And then some woman contacts me and said that they had been engaged for a year and they had an apartment together and that they it just goes on and on. Wow, Like it wasn't just her, There was many many but I found out all at once.
So it was a pretty good sting, especially when I thought he was gold and so I don't know it was a difficult but a beautiful one in the end, because I would have never ever in my life thought I would be involved in this industry. And when I did get involved, it's like I belonged, Like I hadn't really worked a job, I had no career. It put me through school. I put myself through school. I I
don't know. I just everybody welcomed me, and my fans just boosted me up and told me I mattered to them, and it was really just a positive all the way around. It's been It's been a great ride. And I like being too. I like being Lily, like that's fun to be. And I also like looking at people and going I don't care, like because Lily doesn't care, shouldn't give a shit, and I'm much more reserved, very much so. So it's been fun to play the character, play the part.
You may eventually start to live the part.
It seems like, you know, I don't know if i'd lived her life. She's pretty wild. But but it is fun. It's a fun thing to do it definitely, you know, the entrepreneurship of it, the self employment, just it's a constant. It's very strategic. It's like a game of chess. I always say, you've got to really plan things out. There's never really a sure way to do things. So it takes a lot of planning and thinking and teamwork and it's it's just a It occupies a lot of my time in a good way.
I always asked this question, and it's half a joke, but did you realize that coming into the porn industry would be about five percent having sex and the rest of it was social media?
You know? Blah, So a little secret about me. So I was like really really reserved on the sex part because I was just like, oh my god, I have to do I'm going to have to give a blowjob, Like I'm gonna I'm going to have to do what? Maybe that's why I didn't keep the huzz but anyways, so so basically I had to tell myself, am I okay with doing this? So then I found a way around doing Really the sex stuff was because you know, playing the Mommy, it's a lot of dialogue. My fans
like to jack off to the whole storyline. They are not into pop shots and all that stuff. Because I am a major comophobe. I learned that too, so I don't really need loads anywhere that I yeah, yeah, so we sticked a cream pine on the face. You can't see it, you know, that sort of stuff. But I definitely I have a list of what I won't do
when I started, which was pretty pretty much. It was easier to say what I would do, and I have gotten away with a lot or not necessarily having to do so much, boy girl, because I talked to my fans right there.
Sure, sure, I want to come back to your list because I have a thing like, yeah, but I have to say this. I am a I am a I'm a pop shot fetishist. Like that's what I Oh, many are sure? Sure? Sure? You know you bring up a new scene, you fast forward right to the end.
What I don't have an end? What? Uh?
What is it that grosses you out? Is it the smell the texture that tastes.
The Okay, so get this, I can't smell. So it's not that the taste. I've never tasted it that. It's just it's psychological. There's no reason behind why. I'm like totally, I'm just afraid of it. Like I don't know why. I don't mind if it's someone i'm with. I think it's more the rando cumshots, like like if you shoot, you could shoot it on my am. I stuff just I just don't like sit there and stare at it. But but if the thought of it going near my
mouth is just horrible to me. But you know, I've learned I could take it on the face, which means I can handle it, so it's not the texture.
Then give me a second. Let me cross off all of my bukkake questions. That's going to eliminate about twenty minutes of our conversation.
Oh, I have a friend who does bukkaki. Shea at that book. I was in the room one time and I smelt that there were so many Uh you said you said something earlier about meeting people at like the Why Not Show, and.
I, as a total idiot from the outside, just ignorant to it. Right, I would look at it and I would assume from all the stigma I've heard all of the years about women, I would go, this must be the caddiest, nastiest business where people don't help each other and they're fighting to climb to the top. It's the polar opposite, isn't it. Well, from what I've seen, at least, right, Yeah, for sure.
We definitely have a stigma, but that stigma is a good like in my opinion, it makes us more valuable. It makes us dirtier, naughtier, like we leave that to the fans to make us out to be, you know, much more than we are. They also think that we are, like at these we're just fucking all the time, and it's like, I'm the only one I don't know. I know, there's quite a few of us that don't even have sex.
We consider it more performing, but we don't even have personal sex in ten years, so that's where it's kind of funny about that. But yeah, we are so like we team up a lot. There's girls like Garcy Dean and Piper breass and and Kaylani Kai and there's pre or Rye. Like we always get together, Amy Quinn. We are always conferring, putting our brains together, figuring things out, teaming up. Especially at the exoticas we get to intermingle with our fans. We spend the whole weekend with them.
They know us like they know us like personally because you know, we're at the expo. But then there's all the after parties they come with that you know to us, with us, we are not separated from them. We definitely interact. So it's that is like the ultimate because without our fans, we're not we don't exist. So yeah, that's pretty cool.
I've been to Exotica probably the last like four years in Jersey, ever since I started doing this show, and I love that one. Yeah, I do too. But this last year though, man, it has really exploded in popular I couldn't miss last time, you know, two years ago, totally fine, I could not move last year. It was crazy how tight everything was, how fucking hot. I wasn't there. Yeah, yeah, do you do? So you do convention? Were you at that one? Did I miss you?
Oh? Yeah? I had a booth there with Skyhawk after dark we did our booth. We had about fifteen girls in our We were right in the front.
So yeah, I probably squeezed by you guys about six times.
A yeah, for sure, for sure.
What is a what is etiquette for you at one of these conventions? Because again I always am real nice and I you know, last year I met a couple people that I had interviewed and I you know, introduced myself and totally respectful professional. I'm in the professional version of this industry, right, yeah. But then one girl, it's this girl Cat who I interviewed, total sweetheart Cat, no cat Karma or gasling, which, yeah, oh do you know her?
Do you know?
Yeah, I've heard, Yeah, she's she's just one of my favorites. She came on the show very early on and just I love her. She's a sweetheart. Whatever. But the next guy in line, after, you know, I walk up with my wife, I go Cat and her husband at the time, Hey, you know, we're leaving. It was really nice to meet you and you can get that cordial Oh okay, bye. Next dude that walks up just comes and just grabs her ass like it was alans bottle of water in fucking Sudan or something, and.
It was it's really hard to get water there.
What is like proper etiquette for you at these things, and what is something you could say right now to men listening to this, Hey, don't do this.
If you're there, well, don't just stick your finger in me or leave marks. I would say, basically like just act right. They know what's right and wrong, you know some of them, some of them do things, But I don't encounter that too often. It's a good crowd. I would have to say overall, I have maybe heard of that once or twice, like and otherwise they wait for the performer to invite them to do that, you know, but we don't really get grabbed at, not too often. Sure,
we've got great security. It's the same security that travels everywhere with us. So they really just have a tight rain and it's it's just good people like our fans are not barbaric animals or now online they can be a little bit mouthfier, sure, but they in general, I don't have any I haven't seen any issues. None of our girls have had issues in our booths each time, so it's not really a concern.
Great, Yeah, that's good to hear. You went well. Again, from my outside perspective, if I wasn't involved, I would be you would think we would. Yeah, I bet it's a shit show there. I bet everyone's crazy blah blah.
No, yeah it was.
It was pretty respect It was just too packed, you know.
Yeah, I got I get a lot of that, like, oh, you must run into some crazy people, and it's like, no, they're actually really good, genuine people, you know, more introverted. Quite often, I don't see them as weird at all. I don't rarely do I ever say this is a weird one, like, very rarely, very.
I saw a lot of weird dudes when I went, but I'm not I'm not a performer, so.
They wait visually visually weird or well.
I try not to judge people just on their visuals. But yeah, no, they were weirdo looking people and they creep me out a little bit. But if they're nice and respectful, whatever are they're.
Looking at the eh, they like, you're making me on. I'm not a performer.
It's that women were looking at me and vomiting. Actually, it was very sick.
To do that.
I know, I break all the rules.
Do you like vomit? No? No, no, I know someone that loves it.
I just it's just not there girls to.
Vomit on each other and in each other's mouth, And I'm yeah.
It's it's a realm. There's certain bodily fluid realms, which is maybe why I have an understanding of your com phobia.
Yeah, I don't know what it's from. At least you understand it.
There's certain Yeah, I don't know either, honestly, as I as I think about it. I don't know where it all comes from. I know, like I like all girls and gothy girls, and my wife is very pale skin, dark hair because I grew up at a time when it was like the Blink one eighty two, Avril Levine, pop punk type of stuff. So that's my fetish.
But they're hot. Yeah, I do like that too.
So there's something about them too. It looks like they break rules and I like, yeah, and I like it. But they're quiet, they are que that's nice to it.
They're secretive in a way like they're just they're mysterious.
Sure, yeah, very mysterious and fun. And yeah it's.
Just plain like pretty, like like if I put that on my feet and all that, I look like a clown.
No you look.
Oh no, I've tried it. Now we'll we'll leave it at that. I've tried it fair enough. Not a good idea. Oh oh yeah, I'm like, no, we're not going to do that again.
All right. Let me ask you this. You have a tattoo on your chest. Maybe love it, hate it? Old tattoo? Want to keep it around? It's sentimental. Any idea on removing it, any idea brightening it? Up. What are we? How do we feel about that?
Okay, so I've had many I went through the phase of all the tattoos, the para scenes I have had, Like my arm removed, the lazered off.
You can kind of see a green green but it looks.
They couldn't lift it back then, like I see it barely right there.
If you told me I couldn't, I was literally My next question was is that the only tattoo you've ever gotten? And what kind of decision was that? So that is go ahead? Yeah? Sorry?
Okay, so this one was removed and then I had a tummy tuck so so that was cut off, thank god. And then this one is just this is a cover up from probably thirty plus years ago. It's faded for some reason. People like it. I don't know why. It's just three roses that fit the letters on the cursive and that's how it was, and that's all it is. It's nothing more than that. And I don't want to go, you know, burn off my tit and I don't want to put I don't want another tattoo.
So are you so you're done with tattoos?
Then? Oh yeah, oh yeah, I'm over it? Like that was a phase. So I'm done with that. And then of course the piercings. You know, sometimes if you go to the pokey one time, they'll tell you to take them out and then they close up. So that was many many moons ago, and so I was like, huh, just kept him out.
My wife. My wife took her nipple piercings out. And it's one of those things where at first she got it done without telling me, which is almost like not that she has to, but it's like, you know, we're together, and let me know that you're gonna go get this done. Then I fall in love with it. Then she takes amount and it close up and I miss them. Now we're gonna start trying to have kids in a couple of years, so he doesn't want to get yeah, and I'm just like, in this weird cross pattern. I like
your tattoo. I think your tttoo is very nice. It's really unique too. Yeah, just in terms of just in terms of it creates an aesthetic for you where you're this gorgeous like statuesque curves. Oh, and then you have this nice print here and it's like ooh, a little bit of it.
A little bit of a signature. I'd never intended it to be.
So yeah, all right, let me let's let's circle back to what we were saying before about your no list. You're absolutely not well not okay, first, let me start this way. Is there something you wish? All right, the last like ten fifteen years, we've seen this big step mom, step whatever.
Step Oh, I'm not a stepper. That's just fucking your dad's wife. Yeah, that's not the same. That doesn't have the same level of perversion as as not at all. So it's a different audience completely.
Oh yeah, oh yeah, there's there's two different types of mental illness. There no one of them illegal.
Wait no, no, no, hold on, hold on okay, So this is what a big, big, huge misconception. By no means do we when we do this kind of role play? Are we thinking of our biological parents or our biological children or siblings? Like that? Does it? That's so gross? Like you're like, you know what I mean, Like I don't want to fuck my sister. Like my sister she's like like I don't want to do that, you know what I mean, I don't want to fuck my dad. I don't want to fuck you know what I mean,
like that's just the way it is. It is. It's a it's explaining a role of So say you have like a mistress where she punishes. She wears the black you know, the latex, she'll whip you, she'll make it clean stuff, lick stuff up, or do whatever, and you get punished. Now, a mommy is someone who is dominant, she's a milk. She's experienced. But the next thing is she's nurturing. So that's how you divide it between. It
has absolutely nothing to do with incest at all. Like it it's so far fetched that someone would say that because we do, say daddy without a problem. Nobody wants to fuck their biological I mean there's always that one, but nobody is intending on fucking when they say, oh that's my daddy, you know, they're not like thinking, oh my bio dad, I want to go and like boneum, Like that's so far fetched. And it's the same thing with mommy. It has no underlying like it just is
not that's not what it is. So a mommy will teach you, oh, son, you're doing that so wrong, Like let my mommy show you, because moms we show them how to do things right. So basically it's an older woman experienced women with a younger and that's that's where the role comes in. It has nothing, please, nothing ever to do with incest.
So that's so far out of the box. I've done probably one hundred and fifty of these episodes so far. I have never had somebody break it down. Yeah, so sinctly like that, like it's a soft dom thing then is what it feels.
Oh, it's very dominant, and it's it's a lot of dialogue and and yes, we hit that level of perversion like you you know, just saying like, oh, your penis was made inside of me, so it belongs there. Like that's a that's such a level of perversion. But it's not. It's not at all an incest thing. It's just being perverted to the extreme and the more perverse. If you are the it's just so much fun. It's so much fun.
But if I'm being a step mom, like I'm just a slut, you know what I mean, Like like there's nothing wrong with the sluts, like I don't like but but I'm the one where you you innocently start fucking him, you know what I mean? You innocent like or you or mom is the aggressor and she's really just like he's really a fine young man, and mom wants to get pregnant and her husband, his dad's not going to do it, so why not? You got a good one, right? You know, that's sort of a hundred dialogue.
I always say, as long as there's no dogs or kids in the room, I don't give a shit what your kink is. You do you whatever it is, as long as it's legal, that's very legal. It's just well we talked about gross things earlier, like vomit or anything like that. Maybe it's not so much the actual vomit or this and that. It's just they need the level of taboo so much yper than anything is present here, and you go, you know, it's.
A way to escape from Like I've had er doctors and stuff like that tell me that they they see such extreme and then if they could step away. That's where there's so many medical people are freaks, but I love you all have fun with them. But anyways, so when they do that, like it's something more extreme than
what they're dealing with. So that's where they get into a lot of those the extreme kinks and converse, you know, like yeah, you know, orgies and swinging and all that stuff is just something that can step them out of where they're their mindset is usually at you know, No, that's about That's not what it is.
That's again very succinct, and I've never really heard it broken down that way, and it makes total sense. I took years to a decade and a half have probably to introduce dirty talking to my wife. Right, Oh, it's great, Oh it's and and I totally understand her shyness and whatever else weird at first, totally yes. But what you have to establish for me at least, was I go. Because we're both very cynical. We laugh a lot, we
both bust each other, you do. But I have said anything that takes place in this room, you know, while we're doing this, I will not judge you, for I will not make fun of you, for I will not whatever. I want you to just try, just try and like talk sexy and do this and that and whatever. And man, it has taken you. There's so much so hot. Yeah, And and she doesn't mind it either, she likes it too. What you I think with any of these fetishes or
taboos or anything like that. Now, look, don't go to your wife and be like, you know, I want you to pretend to be my mom without letting her know the context of it, Like I want you to be my mom. It's gonna come off strange. You need to expense to start.
Whispering like little things in her ears and be like, who's your mom? Oh, you're my mommy, or just something like once in a while in the moment would be. I know, men are the best teachers of dirty talk because what we think a man wants to hear is so far off. So I started learning to dirty talk
by asking my fans, what's your trigger words? What one liners do you have that you know, because you men tell themselves like you know, giving up horsey, you know, like they say all kinds of stuff to their dicks, so they need to hear that. They're very very audio driven, very and visually. So if you just ask them, I started just like taking note of these one liners like, oh, jerk me a huge rope, but come like, woman, I would never think of that, what is a rope of? Like?
But anyways, so I just start learning, come on, jerk me, that huge rope would come and then they would just do it. I'm like, damn or like you know now you me, you know, just like stuff that they the best teacher is a man, So yeah, you need to be teaching your wives. They just don't know what you want to hear. Yes, yes, that's a lot of it is.
The part of my concern was like, well, I don't want to directly tell you a word for word what you want to hear, because then you'll never sleep with me again to my wife, So let's just casually throw it really would I mean, look again, tell me.
Something you'd really want to hear that you would not tell her? Oh, come on, give me one. You got one. You can't throw that out there and not say something.
You know, it's not anything crazy or.
Great, No, but it's somewhat silly, probably.
Not even okay, look so it seems like it would be a basic. But we talked earlier. I have kind of a thing, I like a popshot type thing. I like whatever, so I like hearing, well, look, I look's going to and say it, but just just yeah, anything like come on my face, cume on my mouth, even if they don't have to. If she you know, I'll be like, hey, I'll finish on your stomach. I don't care. Just talk to me like we're doing something else or.
Yeah, like she's like, you're gonna shoot this huge rocket because because after I love their.
Come Yeah, after I finished? What am I doing? It's not like I need to be hyped up anymore?
No, you guys run afterwards. That is one of the biggest things I have read, which just it was a surprise that when even you're on webcam and you're webcamming and the guy nuts click like he's done. It's almost like he comes to like a reality of oh my god, what am I doing? He just hangs up. They don't even say bye. And I was like, why would I do wrong? And then someone had told me, oh no, this happens all the time, So now I know the second thing that they're out, that's it, and it's not
I'm like, is it saving money? No, he still had so many minutes left. No, they're just.
Done, like it's a it's okay, it's calm clarity.
I guess it's called or something like weird.
Yeah, see, you know what my I I do not do the same thing like run away because she's my wife obviously, but I'm not like snugly and hold it for an hour.
No, we don't want that either.
I need a little Yeah, she wishes I would be a little more snuggly and nice and stuff. I'm just before, No, no after, like you know, kind of intimate and nice after.
I mean, isn't that cute?
Yeah? Yeah, it's not. You know, it's not like it's a one night stand. It's you know, my wife.
Yeah.
But I start it starts going through my head. I start going like, okay, well you just did that. You talk you we're dirty talking during it, so you I know she's not going to judge me for it. But that fear comes in, like, oh god, what did I say? There's about how I look? And I go, oh, she'll leave me if she realizes what I look like.
And then how would she not know what you look like? Isn't she fucking new?
No she is, But like my body, the lights off, I'm not regularly walking around naked, though, Oh do.
You have the lights off?
I mean.
Tearing those lights on? You do it in the dark.
I don't understand. No, a nice TV on in them some lights above. It's not dark dark, it's definitely not dark. You could still see everything.
Like spotlight on that with a camera.
Or lights on, would I would just lose my rod immediately? Oh you got a little I can't. I just see.
That's the thing with the milk is we don't give a shit. We don't care. We've already our kids have wrecked us. We have they're out of the house, they're grown, like, we just want to get off, Like that's pretty much what we're like, twenty one year old boys.
That's what they say, right, Yeah, we're such.
In our prime in our forties. It's like over the top, like so cool. Yeah great, and we need someone to keep up. But you know, I have to say, I believe that men's dicks keep growing, like you know how your nose keeps growing in your ears supposedly your whole life. Sure, I think their dicks start growing because old men have huge, huge dicks.
I think you've been hanging out with old men with big dicks maybe.
Because tell it, I've seen it all.
They're big, no fourth grade, so I don't know what you're talking about.
And they got these saggy balls. Yeah, it's just like so old men, don't you fret? I don't really like to fucking it too, But I'm just saying that. The younger guys, you know, it's just it's so much fun to control them.
So what do you prefer to work with when you're shooting scenes, doing whatever? Do you prefer younger guys? Do you prefer guys more qualified? Quote unquote.
No, that's a hard one because it's just someone that I connect with or have the chemistry with. I it's all of it. Like I like them big. Big is good.
Okay, there's big.
It's just big, no, no, no, and that's good, you know, So I like it. I like them like literally, I mean I think just because I'm there that I bring it out in them regardless, Like they could be the most reserved person and I will bring out the freaking them.
That's nice. That's good to hear.
So they just let it go with me. It's just like so great, like wow, and I stop and go, oh my god, is this what my life has resorted to? Like this is what I'm really doing? I'm like, I am it's cool.
Yeah, exactly. Resorted to. Resorted to is the wrong word, though, it's it's is this where my journey has taken me?
Oh yeah? But I mean one time I was skipping through the woods and a scarecrow cross costume for Wizard of Oz topless, so let him, you know, with three other girls. And I was like this, this is what my life has come to. And I'm like, ski ski, just kept skipping. Great great video by the way, But yeah, I.
Thought that was I thought that was a preborn story. You were like, I was skipping through the woods one time. I was like, fuck, is this one gonna go? And then you go in a SCARECROWK I go, well.
It's gonna get crazy. Yeah, because we were doing we were the Wizard of Uh. We were gonna go do the Wizard of Oz, but we had to find him and so yeah, Trun, I understand that's a sun one.
Going back a few minutes when we started talking about the Mom step Mom, the taboo that is there? What is a trend you hope takes off next, something that you actually really really like, Like you like this now, I understand that, But is there yea elsewhere you're like, yo, shit, if that takes off, you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna be rilled for the next x amount of years.
Mm. Well, there's really good question. I would like to see old classic movie sets and film to come back. I think that that we have cheapened it a bit by meaning the theatrics and the performances and the big stars are just not not there anymore. So I would like to see that cycle back around, and hopefully it does. We have have had a lot of restrictions and things that we have to battle to get there. We're always very resourceful and we find a way to keep it going.
But that's definitely died down.
Sure, what are some of the things that are on your no list?
Then?
What are some times there.
We go.
Yes, okay, so it would be it's the vomit shit, you know, it's funny.
Wait, let me interrupt you. I used to do a game run down the I used to do a game like this called sack Shit Animals Kids, and it was oh because I would ask what is something that you wouldn't shoot a scene for blah blah blah, and inevitably women would always go like, well, I wouldn't suck a kid and be like, yeah, no, I know that that one's good. So we just take those out of the equation. Yeah, there's animals.
Kids, Yeah, yeah, this takes those out. But you know, there's a site that's for like come haters, the women that hate Come. But I can't even bring myself to do that site because they have to come in my mouth, like for me to show how much I hate it, and I can't. I can't bring myself to do it. So that's a big one that would be. That's no. That's pretty much usually my no. And I don't want marks on me. I'm not I don't do I'll humiliate the shit out of someone, but I don't want it
done to me. I just like want to punch them in the dick instead when they like even if it's role playing, I'm just like, it just doesn't with me. It's funny because I'm like a lot more submissive. I think I don't really know because when I had sex forever, but in real life it's kind of like, I don't know. I'm just saying I don't like it when I'm feeling and if someone gets dominant with me, it just makes
me want to put them in their place. But it also I think it's relinquishing a little bit of control when you're that vulnerable. So I give it to the ones that are submissive. I really do that that takes a lot to just give in like that, like it's it's difficult for me. So anything that's more humiliating, you know, humiliating or just like like why do you want me to do that? Like why do you want to hit me? Or piss all over me? Or But then again, there
are those who are perfectly fine with that. So there's as long as it's two that are cool with it, there shouldn't be any judgment by anybody about it. It's just not something maybe that I would do. Sure, you know, and a lot of people to get the mommy rolled whatsoe have they just started No, no, no, that's gross. I have gives no, no, no, it's just so misunderstood. But that's okay too. Sure, Well, the labeling on it
makes it valuable, Yeah for sure. Yeah, but it's it's the labeling on it which is necessary and required, Like I have to know this is a mommy step mommy type situation, otherwise I'm not going to watch it. Why not?
I Well, if I'm looking for that fetish, I need to know what it is. I'm saying. If I were, yeah, yeah I would. I had a debate one time, not a real debate, but with a performer about categories, and she was totally against it. And I totally understood her point too. It was mostly about performers of color. How establishing them in other categories or calling this interracial or
whatever es sense could be negative towards them. But I thought I made a compelling point that if you group everything under hot Lady, right, isn't the top ten percent of the industry with the biggest following then going to dominate all of that type of stuff?
Well, we do niche it, Yeah, and you don't want to go through every I guess that would leave it open to that you would have to search through every video to find your niche. But also you have to remember back in the day when they you would buy the porn, you would want to know what you're buying. But I do see them backing off the BBC, the anti rate, you know, the IR And I think she's got a point. And when it comes to that particular instance like that, that makes sense to me. I believe
that to be true. But I noticed they've backed off that quite a bit.
Yeah, and maybe that's a good thing. It's probably a good thing. I think it's good morally. I just worry about the repercussions of Morley. Yeah, I think it's a good thing to do now, not kell like all right, so why are we not categorizing people like that?
But it's not even it's just that one in particular, I think is more like singled out and it does limit them. That's just from my own perception. But there is nothing moral about porn like that word that shouldn't like, no moral about porn.
Okay, let me let me say that you're you're exactly right, But let me say that I say I'm running one of the big tube sites, right, Okay, someone comes to me, a young African American performer and she says, I really think it's terrible that people are categorized in this way.
That I'm stuck under ebony or whatever it would be. Yeah, whatever the category as a person who can empathize with this person and understand where they're coming from and everything else, the morally right decision for me as a person just seeing this other performer as a person and understanding their play, I get it. No, there's no no actual morals, but I just mean when I said that, I meant morally like making the right decision as a human and not necessarily as a business person or a producer.
I was going to say, this is about money, though, you got to, you know, let's scale it back to what it's really about. So of course you're going to Everybody gets put into their category of where they make money. So the fans put us in those categories, those niches I was put into them. I would have never I didn't even watch porn beforehand, So that's another shocker besides that kind of shocker, you know, but it's a shocker
like I was like, what the is this? And they started calling me that, and then it's I had I had a producer from Angel from XCS network. He's a good one, but he wanted to do a mommy daughter daddy role play. And I was like, I can't do this, Like I'm not going to do that, like this girl looks like she's eight, Like I'm not going to do that. And he was like, listen, you don't have to do it. And he says, but let me explain it to you first, and he said, you're an actress. You are an actor.
You are performing. You're not really like if we on the movies, just people who have to do horrible. You know, they're mass murders, they're childless, but they're all kinds of roles and on the internet, you know, but they're not that person. So he's like, it's just acting. And I was like, okay, okay, and so it's like the best
movie I ever did, sure by far. And it was just sometimes people just need to understand, like step back for a second and swallow your huh and just go hold on like that's not what that means and truly understand that, Like I don't. It's not ancest.
No no, no, no, no, no, it's not.
And it's not morally right like to be watching I can talk out of two sides of my face on this one, because it is hurting our society truemendously. I think it's a definite problem. It is our children have way too much access to it. Parents aren't watching. It is the parent's responsibility, but the fact is they're not watching them or they're not and so us coming together as a community, you know, the Americans, that we have to make that decision on how we're going to stop
them because it's affecting them tremendously. Like when I was growing up, our porn was like National Geographic magazine and we'd be looking at the sago tits and be like, look at those balls. You know, that was a big deal to us. But the stuff that they can access on the internet is shocking to me. Like I still get shocked. So I don't want I would not want.
It.
It's a tough one. So am I contributing to it? Yes? I am so I can two sides of the I'm well aware that I talk out of two sides of my face with that. It is? Is it the new age verification laws hurting us tremendously as a performer? Yes? Is it? I believe? You know, your freedom of speech a freedom of an eighteen year old. You know, an adult should be able to watch porn, Like, what do you mean we can't watch it with up turning in our IDs as some third party porn agency. That's a
little sketch, you know. And it's like you don't. Maybe you don't. A lot of people they don't let their spouse know they watch it. It just goes on and on of why they should be able to be discreete. But then on the flip side, you have to buy alcohol, you got to show your ID, but it doesn't go into Maybe it does now because they scan it, but it doesn't necessarily go into a sketch system a database.
Yeah that, yes, is vulnerable to hacks or whatever else.
It's just they definitely, you know, our industry is pushing for like Google or someone to control that, but not some random third party that we're going to pay as little as possible to because it is so expensive to implement these laws. It's I don't know, it's something that it's really like, that's what we've come to. But yes, we have because how else can you identify if the child's there? Are not sure there's there, I don't you know, you just have to we have to do something. I
would love to do. The eye scan, biometrics like that kind of stuff would be reasonable. But in the meantime it has cut everything, you know, in half as far as we're always being shut down, always constantly, and we just we'll find another way. Yeah, you know, you're the little cycle cycle around.
The first person I've talked to who has been honest about I love this industry. I love talking to people in this industry. I think, Yeah, just fascinating to people in the world. I think you're great, Do I do? I think porn might be pushing too far? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I think I might. But you know what it does.
It's not for us to say he though.
No, No, it's not the.
Joy of being American. That's the joy of having the freedom of speech and expression. That's the joy. That's what we're founded on. Is like, but we have technology that is being used in a way that we have to take preventive measures because it is deeply affecting our future, meaning the children become adults and they are deeply being affected by If it's not sexual abuse, is pornography, it's something to do with that. That's just they're just seeing the shit too soon.
Like, I think it might be even a bigger broader spectrum than that. I think that's a part of it. But I mean the violence people see online. I think it's Yeah, it's media. I hate need like a seventy year old man. But I think it's social media. Guys.
It is one hundred percent media. All media is not. All media is bullshit. It's all it is. I don't care if it's the news, I don't care if you want to call it a reliable source. I don't think we know half of what's going on in this world. To be honest with you, I think they're always like, look, look, look over here, and they're doing shit over here. I don't think we have a clue. I don't think we're privy to it. And they just tell us a bunch of stories all the time. You know, shit that's going
on that who knows if it actually exists. I think media is the culprit of like absolutely almost every issue that we really have is media, and we have no regulations, we have no accountability for it. And like, I feel so strongly about this because I cut off. I don't watch TV at all. I cut all that crap off. And I'll tell you because it started veering me from
my belief system that I was raised with. And what I was raised with is came from my environment, my you know, experiences that I have, which are going to be total different than yours. It's it's gonna be different, so you're gonna have a different belief system or things that don't apply to you, you know, may apply to me. You know, if I have a disabled child and you don't, you don't give a shit, you know what I mean? It just doesn't. That's how your belief system is built.
And that's where we don't have a lot of respect for each other of stopping and going wait, they've been through different shit than I have. There their city or state is different than mine, so we don't have that issue, you know. But it started to change my belief system and it is and it's all it's all bullshit. You try to find something that's legit. We have no legitimate
news sources. They're all one side or the other. They're all it's just I hear my I hear certain people my friends that call me with this experim crap like it's just I feel sorry. It's like I could see it eating their brain, like it's it affects and people are going, no, I'm not going to let it affect me. You don't really have a choice. It has that much power it does. It sways you on what you know is right and wrong or what you believe, and it's it's just I think it's the evil. Yeah. I am media.
So I've done a lot of interviews with the hottest women in the world, and I have never been harder than I am right now. As you described how much you hate the media because I also hate the media. I think it's propaganda. I think it's been that way since the fifties.
Oh yeah, yeah, well yeah, yes, probably I am I'm not that old, thank god, but it's definitely. I didn't start recognizing it until, like, I had my vehicle stolen from my airport in Denver, and when it was stolen, they were screwing me on every side of this situation, and I was paying everybody. I paid out thousands of dollars to the parking, to the toe truck man, to the impound, you name it. And I'm like that, like
it was stolen from me. So I go to this troubleshooter and he ends up telling me, oh, yeah, we're gonna go to all these people. We're gonna knock on their doors, call and be like why are you taking money from this victim? You know this? And that. I'm like cool, Like even the police, what did you do? You could have put it in the police impound, but instead you let it sit like you let a private person take it. It would have been free. So anyways, and
he ends up doing this news story. I'm like, yeah, let's get him, let's get him. And then he played it on the news, and I sat there just absolutely like dumbfounded that it was about. He ended up dubbing, in my words, to two years ago a law that didn't pass that I know nothing about. I never mentioned it. I don't know, and he was like talking about that, and then I would make a comment that would it would be like yeah, you know as a victim, Da
da da da dah. And I was like, this man stood in front of my face, supposed to be the trouble the truth finder, the trouble shooter. And that's when I really understood the depth of how bad the media is because I had nothing to do with that law. I didn't even live in the state at that time. Like, what are you talking about?
Wherever you are politically? To anybody, just fake news is a thing. Yeah, okay, it has been.
It's all of them. It's I mean, it's supposed to go help me, Like I thought this, you know, you got the troubleshooter on it, and he's gonna go and ring ring ring, What do you do you know? And it's like this man totally took my story and it had nothing to do with helping me. It had nothing to do with my story it had to do with the law that was that didn't path. It's just ridiculous, Like yeah, and it's like, why did you sit there and bullshit me? Why didn't you just tell me that's
what it was about? Like why didn't we just do that? I'd be like, oh, at least I could read the law. So anyways, And that's when I really realized how bad it was.
Like it's bad, yeah, but I'm not gonna I won't bring up mine on here because it's too political. But it was a political thing where I was like, that's not that. I know it's not that, and yet I'm being told this is that and it's.
Not and yeah, and they literally I mean not to get too far into it, but like Trump is such a performer, like he is an absolute stage show. Like he is he's one of like best performers there is, because all he does is does a dance over here. Everybody looks at it that way watch him do. He's such a horrible dancer. He's this and that and and they're really over here doing ten other things and he's
the performer. And it's like we're just so sucked into it and it's damaging it's it's done a lot of I think a lot of damage to our family units are side. It's just gone as shit, maybe, and I contribute to it in more ways than one. So I'm not try trying to say that I am, by any means not a contributor.
I am, you know what the can I can I try and give you a little cover on that one there, because yeah, it doesn't sound like it doesn't sound like you produce stuff. That would, you know, disgust me from a twenty twenty five sensibility. It sounds like you produce stuff, or you want to produce stuff, or you like being
a part of stuff. That's more of the you know, in two thousand and four, when I was sneaking into a used trade a tape fucking DVD shops so whatever lady would sell me at it for when I was sixteen years old or whatever. Jesus, you know we shouldn't say that, but yeah, she works at a Walmart now. She hassled me a couple of weeks ago anyway about a receipt. I don't I personally. I'll just say this and you can feel however you want to feel from
the outside perspective. You sound like you don't delve into the stuff, that he's pushing it too far, because there has been for a long time. You know how many.
People are against what the mommy role play.
Okay, maybe that yes me, so see.
How you say that. And at the flip side, no, I'm actually diving into these people don't understand it, which is fair. But I do dive into that very much so. But your perception is not necessarily that. So I do talk out of both sides of my face when it comes to that. And I really don't have an excuse for uh saying it's bad and then doing exactly what's bad in my in my own belief system, I don't justify it. I'm just a character over here and I'm I don't just I don't think there is a justification
for it. I guess I believe, not believe. But it's done me in my world and my family more than I could ever ever ask for. So I'm good with that. It sits well with me. I fucked up in life. I didn't go to college right away. I had kids to you early, like all that stuff, and it's just it's done. It picked up the pieces where I desperately needed pieces picked up. So it's it's done me right in so many ways that I'll gladly contribute to it because it's going on anyways, and I have to block
that out of my mind. I have to just block out the fact that it's not necessarily something I think is good.
Hey, I can respect while I yeah, right, I can respect though taking a step back and realizing it because I'm doing it too. I'm having conversations and I'm not producing porn porn, but I'm you know, I'm engaging in the community.
I just glorifying it.
I am to an extent, But conversations like this, deep stuff like that, which I rarely get, is a great insight. Let me ask you this one last question. Then we've really got to wrap this up, okay, because I've been asking performers this for a long time and it's so interesting to response because it old piggisback, piggybacks on what we just said there. What should be the age that a girl is allowed to get into porn?
Definitely twenty one to twenty five eighty. You shouldn't be able to not go to the bar or drink at the event that you're naked at I think that's so it's bizarre that it's that way. But I definitely believe twenty one and older.
That every performer I've talked to has come to eat by far. Girls who got in at eighteen, who oh yeah, I see them now and they go, yeah, twenty they I believe they would twenty one is what kind of the general thing. But we also have the argument, not argument, but a discussion that there are some eighteen year olds who are so much more mature than some forty year olds.
It's not about maturity, though, it's about your brain is not developed at a level that can handle the seriousness of what you're doing. Sure, it's just not it's not. It's too your brain's still grown. Yes, why you don't put alcohol in into it? And so it's done growing? Like, but we can send you to war. That's that's a killer too. That's a killer. I that one I can't yeah, yeah,
yees yeah now yeah. So definitely above twenty one, I would say twenty five, I think you need more, even more growth than you do with alcohol, even though alcohols the double two. But you know, alcohol media orn you know, totally fair going to him, I'm going.
Yes for the evening.
It's been great.
Make sure you hit up the of at Lily Craven and follow all the social media in the episode description, bare minimum you could do is follow these folks on social media. It cost you nothing. You might as well throw it out there. Yeah, step, paycheck came in. You're feeling good. Wow, I got a little bit of money. Head over to the of Yes, you know. Just engage with these people, the performers. They perform for you, make
sure you support them on the back end. Lily, thank you so much for your time this evening.
Thank you, This has been awesome.