You're watching Your Worst Friend Going Deeper Season five. Today's guest adult content creator, author, and podcaster Elena Saint James. Here's your hosts, Matt and Shane. You're watching Your Worst Friend Going Deeper Season five. I'm Matt and I'm joined by my lovely co host Shane. Hello. Go to your Worst Friend dot com to see all of our other interviews and follow us on social
media at Worst Friend Cast. Today we're joined by very special guests. You might know her from her podcast Chat and Laugh or her book How to Date a Hot Older Woman. You can find her on Twitter and Instagram at Elena Saint James. And most importantly, go subscribe to her only Fans because we're going to learn about how successful she is at that. And you don't get successful by you know, updating once every three weeks and it's just kind of
like a picture of your thigh. So the quality of the content is just you know, off the chart, and this is how she makes her bones. So I want you to go to her Only Fans at Elena Underscore Saint James. Ladies and gentlemen join us and welcoming to the show. The alluring, the mature, the beautiful Elena Saint James. Well, hi guys, Elena, thank you very much for joining us today. How are you.
I'm doing well and I'm glad to be here. I'm glad to be with young guys that have an old soul to them, Like, how old are you? Guys? Do you discuss toy with that with your audience? Turn thirty six next month. I was born in eighty seven, Shane, you are just a few months younger than him. Okay, okay, yeah, so it's kind of like a brother thing where you're like and I'm or like a twin thing, like I came out second, so I'm I'm technically younger.
Well, yeah, technically yes. You know. The interesting thing is you say brothers, because I do feel like Shane is like a brother in me. But the first thing we bonded over, right, Shane in the back of Kelly's class. Yeah, freshman year. It was killing up the reclass. No, it was, yeah, that's true. The first thing Shane did say to me was how would I what's the best way to kill my stepfather and get away with it? And I didn't immediately brush him off.
I just went I could come up with some stuff for you. But the main thing we touched on coronary heart disease. That was the easy one. Did not do that, it was oh that is what. Yeah, I played the long one. Here you go. Would you like some more bacon? Yeah, if you did bacon in it? Or what is it pork bellies. It's so great. There's so many choices. No, don't, don't get up and walk. No, stay stay on the couch. Yeah, we get that for you. The correct answer was pornography formers that
we both enjoyed and liked. And Shane and I have never really been like guys who didn't have girlfriends, guys weren't getting laid anything like that. But there's just something that seems so fun about porn and so fun about the adult entertainment world. And I'm we've talked to enough girls at this point in men actually as well, where we know there are pitfalls at some point. It is just a job, you know, and maybe they don't love it and
whatever. But what I've seen from you, Lena is a really interesting thing that Shane has pointed out in the past on some of our interviews. He didn't like that girls wouldn't do and I think you're the opposite. I know that sounds really weird and vague and ominous, but we'll get around to it.
Could you tell us a brief overview Elena, because I think you could tell your origin story for hours in detail, but if you could just give us a brief overview of how Elena Saint James was born into the adult entertainment world. So I was at a low paying office job. I was making around thirty grand a year. I took it because it was a nice nine to five that I could be a good mom and I could, you know,
work and have a schedule. So I was doing that and I happened upon a couple articles about OnlyFans, and I started going a deep dive and I saw these women. They were not they were not porn actresses. They were actually just OnlyFans, and they were making over one hundred thousand dollars a month. And I was like, oh my god, if I could make a tenth of that, and I'll never forget it almost gives me chills every
time I mentioned it. If I could make a tenth of that every month, if I could make ten thousand, it would be life changing for me and my son. Sure, right, And I mean I had had professional were professional jobs where I had made close to that in my past before I was a mom. But I was traveling all the time. I was in
consumer product sales. I was traveling all the time, so you know, I looked into it and I thought this is too good to be true, because I was somebody that always kind of thought, you know, like wow, exotic dancers, and that's kind of cool. I never wanted to be important, because that was not I was just too conservative and too monogamous in my way. But I had always liked the glamor of that kind of stuff, the cheeky stuff, the playboy all of that. Like, I thought
that was really cool. And so I thought, gosh, you know, like they're pretty, but they're not Giselle Bunchin. You know, they're not perfection sure, and I thought, gosh, maybe I'm a tenth of as good looking as they are. Maybe I can do something with this. So long story short, Within a month and a half, I was I knew I was making I was making two times my monthly salary at the job forty
hours a week, and so I took the plunge. So by the month three, I had made ten thousand dollars on OnlyFans, so and then it's gone up since then. You know, as far as I know, there might be somebody lying, but I'm the most successful creator over the age of fifty five on OnlyFans. I'm not going to say like, oh, it's so much work. I mean, it is work. It's a hustle, it's a grind, it's an every day you know, it's it's all just
all these different platforms and trying to advertise yourself and build a brand. Elena Saint James came with the funny thing is my last name on here came from I was trying. I at first thought I was going to have a dominatrix kind of bent to my I thought that because I'm a business person, I understand you need a niche and I understand that you need something to stand out, and I thought it was going to be that. So I thought,
okay, what sounds like sexy? I even googled sexy female names and I one of the things I realized is they said three, like Elena, you know, like three, what does that? Very syllable? Almost thank you are sexier than others? Right, So I thought, okay, so I really went deep dive into names, and I was like, what's sexy,
what's sophisticated? Saint James. I'd one of the loves of my life had the middle name of Saint George because and he was very, you know, fancy sure, and so I was like, okay, Saint George, that's not as sexy Saint James. Saint James, and then I think, and I think unwittingly the fifty Shades of Gray. I think it was E. L. James. So there's a thing there. But anyway, so I gave my name. And what I realized though, is my fans just liked my kind of cheeky, cute, wink and a smile, natural personality.
They didn't want my playful dominatrix and it's part of me. But it's actually easier to sustain this who I am here because it's really close to who I am than you know, some kind of enchantress or whatever. So that's how Lena Saint James started. Reels were really essential to what I did to getting guys interested, and I think they saw it in my eyes that when I was doing a reel it was more And at that time I was fifty four, and it was more like we're doing this? Is this funny? How
cute is this? How funny is this? You're watching me and I'm fifty four and you think this is fun? And I get to do this for a living. I get to do this at this age. Who does this? Well? Me? But you know what I mean. It's like usually those sexy times, those glory times in your life happened when you're in your twenties. That's and it did for me too, like whenever, right, It's like that's when you get to explore that part of you. So how
cool is it that I get to have this now? I guess it would be like if a professional athlete get their stride when they were in their fifties instead of you know, like yeah, that would be so free and you could appreciate it so much more because you'd know your power. You get to
appreciate it. You're the Tom Brady of only fans. But yes, but like if Tom Brady started playing when he was like thirty two or that's fair, okay, okay, or you know, if he took a break because like you know, you said you had, you know, a wild stint
in your twenties. So it's like maybe he played good in college, he took a break, then he came back at thirty eight and then dominated the pros for ten right there you go, yeah, right, yeah, because I was I was a miller girl for a while, and you know, so I would go out and be like sure and take pictures with guys and are you know, autographed stuff, And I did a lot of kind of that fun stuff. I respect you one hundred percent for what you did.
I believe Shane your wife. At for a while, I was doing that type of promotion as well, right modeling, Yeah, sure, all respect to the only fan stuff too. And I understand our audience or this is a comedy show, Elena's just so you know, I understand our audience is cool. Guys getting those autographs to me are the same type of guys who
comment on porn hub videos. Maybe they should be like, like watched a little bit, Like I understand getting the picture taken next to the pretty girl, obviously, but then to get an autograph afterwards, it's very nice, but it it creeps me out to an extent. It's funny, but this was back in the nineties. I mean, you really have to go back. That's one of us. I think the funniest thing. And it really the first time I was dressed as cold patrol and we went in and this
was like, is it foreigner that has that cold ere? She's as cold cold? Yeah. Yeah, So we would come in. We had, oh my god, it was the funniest things we had. These we had it was Miller genuine draft was cold as ice, cold filtered. That was the big deal. And we had these giant canisters that were basically like fire extinguishers on our back. So we would have these things and we would come in and we would spray them so it would be the cold myss and then
we'd come in. It was very dramatic. I loved it, and I mean it was fun. It's totally yeah, totally, And I even understand the conventions going and getting autographs from people, and I have no I am not even making judgment. Again, all due respect to you. Now it was weird. I was okay, okay, well, I mean, now you are Elena Saint James, your autograph is worth No, they could have known she was Sally Jane back then. She just said, but I wasn't
Sally Jane. I'm not going to give you my real name, but OK, okay that that might exist. There might be guys that have pictures now I look different. I had giant hair, you know, but it was me that primary. Somebody's gonna be like, oh my god, that was that Miller girl. But and I would I would sign that was weird. Though sometimes they'd have me sign. I'll never forget there was. This happened a few times, guys that wanted me to sign their heads or body parts
with sharpies. That's yeah, you know, like I just drove here from you know, home. I feel like I got came here on a jet. Yeah, well, sure that one I understand if Yeah, yeah, no, I think that's great. I think that's you know, that's fine. People can collect whatever they want to collect. I just if I were to see a guy like just going up to again, no, no disrespect to you, but at that point, you're just a pretty girl with a chorus shirt on, right and going I was that wasn't famous, but you
know it's it's a little bit of fame, even micro fame. Even right now, I think I have a micro fan. Even though I've had a lot of coverage from international media and stuff, but it's still micro fame. What this is done, though, guys, is it really has let me understand a lot about people and it's an and celebrity. Sure, you know, it's in what way? Like what have you learned that's new that you
didn't really understand before. By the way, there are three main professions that all of the most successful girls we've talked to all used to be in before sales like you, psychology, which I think plays into a big part on being able to talk to somebody, and marketing and it is without it,
you've got nothing. That's a question I always ask people, and please go back to what you were talking about if you want real quick, But do you think and I yeah, do you think if a girl who would be more successful in the industry you're in a girl who's a woman who's a ten out of ten but has no idea what Instagram is or a five out of ten who knows the algorithm like the back of her hand. Well, first of all, the algorithm is always changing, so you don't you're not going
to outwit the people at Meta. I'm just not. So you know, it's a crapshoot, And I mean my god, I had viral videos or viral reels and I didn't know they were me in a satin floral robe. Twenty million, twenty six million, nineteen million views. This is back in November. I wouldn't have had any idea. Now once I knew that that was successful. Now I've look like a dead horse, and you'll see that's become like a signature. But but it's it's about there's two things with success
with OnlyFans. First, you got you have to have a niche. Sure, thankfully mine is just part of it is I'm old and but that you know, what makes you different? And like if I was your mom, I would say this, like what makes you different, Matt of what makes me special? Oh uh, I'm really hard to be around. Different. Yeah, Shane's incredibly difficult to have conversations with. That's why I decided to start a podcast with them. Me. I guess my penis is just larger
than the average porn star. So there's that. But what my niche would be, No, I don't know, just chatting with people and not getting overwhelmed talking to the most beautiful women in the world. You know, my n it should be angry muck bangs see you, but you know yourself. But that's when when you're talking OnlyFans or any marketing, what makes you different? There are so many more women out there that are I'm not saying this,
but like, oh, please compliment me. It's not that, it's there are so many more beautiful women than I am on there, beautiful, perfect. I don't know if they have any cellulite, like, they're perfect. They are gorgeous. A lot of them are much younger than me, and I make men many, many, many, many times more money than they do. Why why it's I have a niche, because that's part of it. The other girl is a hot girl, and you have a niche and you are a hot older woman. You know, got the brand and
yeah, and that's that's huge. That's huge. Plus I know my niche, I know my brand. I have a brand, and I know it. There's a lot of these very successful OnlyFans creator if you say, what's your brand, they don't even know what their brand. Sometimes I tell them what their brand is. If I'm friendly with them, I'll be like, listen, this is what your brand is. Oh my guess I never thought of it that way now. Sometimes people just kind of step into luck and
or they got in early. I've seen a lot of really successful OnlyFans creators that Again, I'm a business person. I look at their brand and I go, well, they know it unconsciously or consciously. But some of it's luck. Some of it with me is luck. I'm not going to pretend that I'm some genius. There is some knowledge and then there's some luck.
But one of the parts about being successful and OnlyFans you look, there's an authenticity and accessibility that if you look too perfect, you don't you don't have you know, you look fake. Yeah, yeah, we've talked about that before too. There are people who love the high glitz and glamour of the big name companies that do shoots right brassers or reality king stuff like that.
We spoke to another model recently, Catherine Knight Beautiful Girl Chilean out of Budapest, and she says she does not want to shoot the cell phone type foot She wants professional lighting. She wants this and that and that is her brand. You know, when you're going to sign up for her thing, you're getting maybe not as many updates as the girl. That's like taking a picture clam every morning, but you're getting, you know, the highest quality thing.
And then there are some guys like me and I think Shane to an extent where I made this joke last time, but I like watching a porn video where you can hear unlicensed Metallica music in the background. You know why, because that's against service? Well sure, sure, but I think you get what I mean where I like seeing something where it's pretty pretty but also real. And I think I have not dove too deeply into only fans only
because we talked to so many women. I would feel terrible canceling a subscription, so I try not to jump into them. But I think that's the idea behind it. It's almost like you're talking to and that's a dangerous line to walk too. You're talking to a friend every day, and this friend is engaging you with sexuality as well, and it feels so much better than throwing your credit card into again a major name site and just never having any
interaction with this person they know. I don't know dating too, validating your kinks and all that shit. I don't know what you offer on yours, and if you'd like to tell us, that would be great, But the idea of you know, oh my god, I could pay for it and
it's just a couple of dollars here or there. I could pay for a video of Elnea Saint James saying my name or whatever, or doing this like a custom video thing, or a lot of girls do dick ratings or this, and that there is a deep personal connection that only fans satisfies between the viewer and the viewing. Now that also walks a line I want to ask you first, let me ask you what do you offer on your only fans? Yeah? So, mostly because I handle I do my own page.
There are some that use assistance. I don't you know, I'm not. I can see the benefits of that because sometimes you can deal with people that are not very nice, you know. So what I offer. I don't do customs like I used to when I was a smaller creator. I just get inundated. Plus I have to worry at this point because I've gotten so much press. Could that come around and bite me in the ass if I'm
doing something that I don't like. I don't know. Or the other thing is sometimes you get leaks of things that I have done that are used to catfish others, So I so pictures. I learned this from somebody else. They said, you know, sometimes pictures and videos that are specific poses things can be used to catfish or they will be used on dating sites specific So I really don't do that much anymore. Now. If somebody sends me a tip and has a question for me, a lot of times I'll answer with
a voice note, so that's really personal. Now, if they do like a twenty five dollars tip or fifty dollars tip, I might do a short little video of just hey, you know, and I'll use their name. And that's thing I do dick raatings, but I always say that they're silly, because they are. And now maybe this is because I'm a woman, but I give this caveat. I'm like, I'll do a dickorating and I'll do the video or a number. They're all eight and a half. I've
seen it. I've seen some less, but generally, first of all, I'm a human and I first of all, no woman would want any body part rated ever, can you imagine? No? No, I agree with that yet right, Like, I mean, if you want to be safe as a man, you're never going to rate a breast or something. I mean, I'll do it. I'll do it to my wife later at the night and see how she reacts to that. Good good luck to you. But man, get off on it, so I really and I usually say,
listen, it's a keeper. Whatever it is, it's silly. But if you get off on it, if that's something that really trips your trigger, I'll take a look at your penis, because that's really what it's about. You want me to look at your penis and talk about it, okay. But what I'm not going to do is what a lot of creators do is like, oh god, oh my god, that gets me so turned on, because it's disingenuous. Women don't get turned on by seeing a dick. Pic. Sure, tell them that funny or smart. Everyone I send
them to really likes them someone unless somebody asks for it, surprise. But you know, here's the thing is women, most women will look at other things in the room, like you could, Matt do this, but you
could show me your dick right now. I'll look at the dick and I'll be like, okay, does he look you know, well kept or whatever, I might comment, and then I'm going to look at the couch behind you, and I'm gonna look at whatever that thing is that it is a camera, like, because I'm a woman and I'm going to look at that kind of stuff. I'm going to look at the stuff that Shane has in the background. And you know it's like, Okay, yeah, there's your
dick in your room. But does it make you excited that I'm wealthy enough to afford a green screen or No? I was just wondering, Okay, what that might a little bit? No, I don't know. Can I tell you how adorably It'll send you a pickup money and you a big water money in a picture, and see how I tell you how adorably innocent? Elena Saint James's to the people that are listening here, she pointed out the couch in the background. This is the back room casting couch couch, which
is, you know, one of the bigger sights on the way. You know what, man, there you go, there you go all blue light that? Yeah, what is that? What does that mean? Blue light for bodily fluids? You blue? Oh, you look at like you're a CSI guy looking at You're talking about casting couches And I've heard things about porn couches, So so yes, I do the dick, right, It's not a big deal of mine. I'd rather guys just spend the money on buying
videos. I mean, especially either my solo videos, which is where I started, and then I started doing content with men with porn stars, So go big or go home, kids like you know, that's what I would love to get into. So what was your right coming into doing OnlyFans? What was your comfort level on this? Now you'd done some you know, you'd done the promo work prior to that. Yeah, was it a I mean, you just jumped right into OnlyFans. I guess it sounds like right
it wasn't like nude modeling. And then okay, okay, nope, no, I'd never done anything like that, had never could never consider doing anything like that. And then I thought, okay, you know, like I'm comfortable enough with my body, and so I did the nudity and then then my fans kind of told me what they wanted, and I thought, okay, I can self pleasure myself on camera, and that kind of did turn me on. I kind of liked knowing that. No, I did need
to see the results all the time. And now I have thousands of subscribers. I don't need to see every you know, like, hey, look you made me hard, you made this. Yeah, okay, cool, I'm doing my job. That's great. I'm glad. I'm glad I don't need proof because there I would be drowning in in dick pics if that was the case. If only we could be so lucky. Yeah, I think it's really like guys just want to show it. Yeah. I don't know what it's like a yeah, any dating any dating site, what are you
going to see as a woman and any woman. I don't know how many people women watch this, but it's the guys that put their fish and there, here's my car, here's my motorcycle, look at it. Yeah yeah, they should allow that on Tinder. It's just like a fish tank that's stuck to your body. Yeah yeah yeah. So I so I just did the solo thing and for two years all I heard, of course was real duke, real duke. And that's exactly how they sounded in my mind,
all of our listeners. Yep, yeah, big overlap man, and and I was just like, well, let's see because I'm single, and it really made me mad, Like can you imagine if you were totally single, you didn't have anyone in your life, and then you had people that were like, Matt, I want to see you with a real woman. I want and you're like, yeah, I do too, And so that was in my mind. But I was like, I am not going to just
do that with anybody, because that's just not how I roll. So then I started thinking from a business standpoint and I was like, okay, if I'm going to do this, and I I did ask many times for like six months. An old boyfriend that I was still friends with, and I was like, will you please? And he was like, I don't know, I don't know. God's pressure. Yeah, what happened? Did he turn gay after he left you? No? No, no no. But
he was like, what if my family finds out? Not? You know, we've been a part for twenty years, And he wouldn't do it, even if his camp. I was like, I don't even need your face, I just need your dick. No, he wasn't going to do it. So I was like, all right, what do I need? What does Alana Saint James need? I need somebody that can get hard, that can stay hard. Can I talk this way? On your podcast. Yeah, the only thing you can't say, fuck stick, that's the only thing.
But that's what I need. So I was looking for a big fuck stick. Okay, I didn't It didn't need to be big. It needed to stay hard, it needed to pop on demand. And I needed to know that they were fully tested, that they were conscious about that, and that they weren't going to get stockerish on like I need those are That's what I needed. And I just didn't need some weirdo from off this street.
I needed somebody that I was a professional. So a friend of mine had said, you know, when I made mine, she was a big OnlyFans careator. She goes, you know, I hired somebody in England that was a professional. Okay, So I started shopping. I started pooring after shopping, and I got to tell you, it's fun. I would assume a lot of guys. There's a lot of gross stuff that I saw too, But it's empowering as a woman, as a fifty at the time, let's
say, fifty five year old woman. And I was like, all right, well it's not it's it's not picking what cereal is going to make it happy tomorrow morning. You're literally looking at a cast of people and going any of these pretty much I could get to pleasure me in any way I want. So yeah, I get why that's imposed really pleasure me though, Like that's what I want, That's what I meant. Yeah, no, that's what I meant from your respect. Yeah, I hunks and meat. Yeah
yeah. It was wonderful, And so I talked to a couple and ended up talking to the two that you know stood out the most and stood up. I guess, yeah, but I so my first collab, but it wasn't a clab. I own. I own it, like I contracted them as if I was a studio. I contracted their services they're acting services. And was first Lucas Frost, who's who had just turned thirty two. I was fifty five, and he was kind of an old soul like you guys, kind of like he kind of understood some of the you know, older
references, and he was great and so made too. I mean, it was awkward and it was weird, like one of the things I didn't know because I've never been on a porn studio set. I don't know if I ever will. We can talk about that if you want to because I think it's an interesting thing of why there's an empowering factor of never doing studio porn.
But you know, I was just like, I don't know what you do because I'm a woman that's used to having a guy that desires me, that does his moves, and then we gradually get to know each other and that we're making out and then it progresses and this it was like zero to sixty, All right, let's stick it in sure. So so that awkwardness, I mean, did that did that manifest as soon as you were around Lucas or did it go into when you were starting to film? And again,
I'm not it was weird. It was weird thing. It was like we you know, we met and had a had a drink and then you know, went upstairs and I was like, okay, well I guess I'll just take off my clothes. But did you My question was more did you know how to Again I'm not no, no, no, how to shoot it? How to shoot it? Like another professional? Right? Right? Well, think about it. I had performed with my good co star, my dildo Torso before and like so I kind of knew obviously it never I
mean, it was funny. I remember when he was and I flew him to the Midwest to to film. But he was like, well, I certainly hope that I'll bring a little bit more life into your videos. And but so it was strange, but he helped. He definitely helped. Like I understood camera and angles and that sort of thing, but he definitely was there to help kind of guide and open up. And that's another reason to get to work with a professional, Like he understood those things and he was
comfortable with it. So yeah, he was great. And then the second one, I the second time that I flew somebody out, it was with Ryan Driller, who was just a freaking pro and he's the Superman you know that. You know Ryan Driller, Like, I mean, yeah name, yeah, yeah, I know more female names, but the name Driller really sets something in my mind where I think I know how well of a job he does. He cast him for the New Superman, but yeah, yeah,
I mean he's played Surround multiple times, he's played Doctor Strange. He's you know, he's he's that guy, you know. So we had a great time. We filmed for over the course of a couple of days, and it was a blast and you know. I've done a couple more since then. It's it's very empowering because I control it, you know, I control it, so I don't I don't want to move directly because what you said about the mainstream thing is super interesting, and we've had that same discussion
with different girls. I want to give you two different perspectives on it. But so you've done girl girl, boy girl solos. How far do you see yourself taking? Your only fans? You've set your brand. You are a very smiley, mature woman. Uh, but do you ever wonder how far you can push it? What the return on investment is going to be if you go more extreme? Do you ever have desires to go more extreme
and you just go no? No, okay, no, no, A little a little bit, you know, maybe maybe the threesome thing, you know, but again it's like that is it's the ROI the return of investment, return on what I'm listen. If I had my brothers, you know, it would just be me, Chris Comsworth married actually, and I know I don't need anyone else me too, actually, which is ironic, but yeah, yeah, I'd be happy with Chris Evans. I would do any of the Chris is you can leave Pine. Oh. I like Pine because
he was wonder woman. He was Steve Trevor I think, and he's also Star Trek. Yeah, he's Kirk, not you. I don't like to tell you what blockhead that's all you? Who is still sexy? I think he's ninety two. I don't know about that. No, No, the original Captain, Oh my god, is he sexy though? Yeah? I mean because you imagine him giving you a facial you know? No, No, I actually I can't imagine anyone because I don't allow that, which we will We will talk about later. Yes, obviously so, but so maybe
a threesome I've only done. I've only been with one woman in my life, and that was the one gal that I did the Gigi with Jamie. And Jamie's wonderful. She's a top top tier OnlyFans creator. She's fantastic. I'm straight, so like and I don't hide that. So I was always curious, you know, So I did it? What will I do another woman? Probably? Maybe you know, but I'm not. It's just it's not essential. So there's a return of investment of how many these videos do
I need to do? Or when you know when do you have too many? Like sometimes I really think it's like there might be too many. It's like think about Pizza Hut. No matter how many pizzas they come up with, probably their number one seller is still Pepperoni pizza, yep yep pa.
There can be an oversaturation of what you offer and it doesn't really matter because my guys that come on today are still going to be like, I want to see your first video of you the first time you had sex, or I want to see this one or you know, like there's there's a time that your menu can be too big, that you're not selling more. You just have more and it's just more diluted. They point that out on Shark
Tank a lot. You have too many skews. That's exactly right, and you go from friendly smiley milf to just another woman who does everything gangbangs and this and that and whatever blah blah blah blah blah. So I gets that. Make personality driven, Matt, that's the and Shane, I'm personality driven, so well, yeah, but you don't. You don't look bad either, Alena, Jesus, you're not help. Shane and I are personality driven.
You are maybe fifty to fifty. Okay, that's I do. But it's that's my thing, is that you know you're they're coming for that. That's why I have you mentioned or you ask what I do on my page one of the things that the guys love that I do. And by the way, when you subscribe to an OnlyFans creator, we're just having fun. You don't have to feel bad. We're not married. You can unsubscribe. The guys will write to me and they feel bad, and I'm like,
sweetie, you can unsubscribe, but you can also come back. We're not dating, we're not married. Go go ahead, benefits, So check out any of my friends or my not my friends, or do nothing and then come back because I'll still be here probably and you can still enjoy me, and I'll welcome you back with open arms if you were not, you know,
a jerk. Sure, and it's fine. It's funny. Though sometimes guys feel like they need to tell me that they're going to like break up with me, I guess, and I'm like, okay, well, I think I think you kind of have like you know, you said you have a personality and that's what you're selling. I think your personality kind of demands respect, and I think that it would be hard to leave and not say
something. You know. It's like it's it would be like like leaving home, you know, and just like, even though it's not necessarily a motherly role, it's like, you know, you have to show gratitude for the services rendered, and she just she elicits that and she demands it by her presence, you know. You know what I was My first thought was like,
oh my god, what weirdos. And then at the same time, if I felt like I was becoming friends with you, which again I'm not, but your thing is so inviting and everything else that maybe I feel that way. I also would probably be like, oh, you know what, I got to at least say goodbye or because you know, like if someone's making a sandwich and I cancel it at like you know, a deli or something, I do want to be like, hey, thank you very much. I think I changed my mind on I don't just walk out. You
know. Meanwhile, they're happy because they get to eat it in the back room. Yeah, that's true. So let me ask though about respect. You've mentioned people being disrespectful as fans and so like, where do you draw that line like when like some people might want to take a dominant role, or some people just might have a way of talking or that you you know,
might be a little different. When does it become like a point where it's like, all right, you you know what you're you and keep paying for the subscription if you want, but you're you're not cut out to be communicate with. Yeah. Yeah, but I mean if they call me a name. Pause before that. Can you ban someone on only fans? Yeah, of course, Okay, okay, go ahead, sorry, continue, I just want to know that, and I have. That's what I was going to ask to. Have you ever been to you? Don't call me
a name, like you don't come into my house and disrespect me. There are there are creators that are totally fine being called, you know, all kinds of things. I'm not, so I don't refer to myself and even if I did, you know, don't come on and come in hot the first time you subscribe. Don't ever call me a slot because I'm not. And the like I bristle at name calling, name calling will quickly get you banned. And that's and I understand that there are some creators that aren't like
that. They they call themselves that. I have some problems with that as a woman, maybe as an older woman. I have problems with that because I think it's inviting kind of it just is. It's just not something I do. And I put it right on there. I'm like, I give and expect respect. Jerks will be banned, like I'll write, so I say it right in the beginning. But if they come in or they were like, oh, I want to see you get railed, but two guys and coming all over your face, and I'll be like, well, hi,
welcome to my page. It's like, what the hell, I'm a person like you. Just if you act like I'm some sort of thing, that really doesn't go over well. And then when I was mentioning one of the things that I offer is I have like weekly segments and these have become signature chat and flash Helena Saint James, where you know, like I'm talking like I am now, but then i take off my top and I play with my boobs and I'm talking about whatever, you know, like, hey,
I watch this documentary. Hey I went to the movies. Oh my god, can you believe how cold it is in the Midwest. Whatever it is, like I'll talk about what's going on and I'm playing with my boobs, or maybe I'll say, hey, I've got a new scene coming on or whatever. I don't dive into religion or politics, clearly because and the performers that do, bless their hearts. Sure, but I don't get it. I don't. Could you alienate half of your potentials? I don't.
I don't get it. It's so off putting. But that's me. Sure. Sure, But now to jump sideways to what we were talking about, mainstream stuff is OnlyFans, and we've interviewed plenty of girls or women. I always say girls. I don't know why. It's it's really like I call them chicks most of the time though, because I'm like this and I don't mind chicks, like, okay, you know, like there might be some that do, but sure I don't. I mean it in a dumb way, not a room I grew up too. Yeah, it's just ny dream
a genie. So when it comes to mainstream stuff, so many it's it's funny because we also do a series on brand new creators where we kind of do an interview with them to kind of expose them to the world, you know, and put it out to ourselves. Yeah, but so many of those women are desperately trying to get the mainstream thing going because maybe they haven't had the same success as you. They're trying, they're working hard, they're
doing it some of them, some of them not so much. They need to put more time in and whatever else, but they are desperately trying to get it. And then the big established stars we've talked to always tell us like, yes, shooting on a set is fun, but it's an advertisement for my only fans, you know. And so let me ask you, what would it take, what kind of return on investment would it take, or what kind of increase in your numbers would it take for you to do
a mainstream scene. Well, first of all, so I was asked by I was contacted by Browsers a couple times last year before I even did it, and I remember taking a meeting and I was just like, I don't know. They must have just been like, what the hell who is this person? Because I was like, well, I've never shot a boy girl and They're like really, I mean that was the energy, Like like I just said, and I'm a virgin the same energy, like just like incredulous,
like because I'd gotten I had done well. And I was like, no, I've never I've never even in my personal life, I've never shot like a personal you know thing. So they were like, well, yeah, maybe after if you do that, maybe we talk after that, because there's a lot that goes in with a set blah blah blah. And I'm like, I understand, Like I don't know. I could decide like this is freaking me out, I have to leave. I don't know. And see, here's the thing, Matt. They could never guarantee me what the
return would be, but I will tell you what I know. The con would be. I wouldn't have control of that content. I would hate that. I would hate knowing that they can put me up, even if it was having sex with somebody that I adore, like Ryan Driller. Now they own it and they can put it forever on a tube site for free, when I can't do anything about it. And then what does that do? It cheapens my brand because now I'm out there, I'm exposed. Now,
Am I as valuable? No? Because I'll tell you what these mainstream porn actresses and I know some of them. They don't make as much money as I do on my only fans, even though they are gorgeous and beautiful and perfect. You know why, because it's a scarcity. There's a scarcity that I have that no mainstream porn actress can have because there's stuff is all over.
I want to see that. I want to see that woman have sex and go on any tube site and see her have sex this way, that way with that person and that person through it, like I can see it free, So why would I need to subscribe to her? Right? It really like it adds to that whole aesthetic, that amateur esthetic to where you're forging this connection with the fan where if you go and do mainstream stuff and you're exposed and your content isn't that personalized version of itself, then that that's
the thing that cheapens the brand. You know, It's like these these people are looking for you, you know, they're they're not looking for Like you said, it's a scarcity, but it's more like the the scarcity is that you you have this connection, this personality thing, and that's the thing that's lacking in mainstream is like it builds a wall instantly as soon as you. It's authenticity there. I have an authenticity what my guys love about when I
do myself. I'm laughing when I'm having sex, I'm giggling. And sometimes I'll look at the camera and they know that. I know, Like I'll look and they'll be like, oh, look at her. You know, she's having a good time and she's giggling. I don't see giggling, authentic giggling in any porn that I see. I'm sure there is, I'm sure, but I don't see a lot of it. I don't see the I don't see that. And they're so perfect, and these chicks aren't choosing.
These guys really choosing if they if they see me, like, there's a reason that I chose, whoever I chose, you know, did it end up being as good? There are ones that are better than others. But yeah, So it's the control and there's the authenticity. Like the best compliments I get with my sex videos, they're like, oh my god, you
reminded me how much fun sex can be. I don't feel fun sometimes with these porn, like a mainstream porn, because they are so frantic or weird or like overproduced, or the angles and it's just there's like a joyfulness because I'm laughing because I'm like, wow, look at this look at this guy.
This is fun. And that goes back to what I started saying at the beginning that Shane has pointed out plenty of times during interviews where after the fact or in a clip we watch or something like that where he goes and not in a you know, nineteen fifties guy at a gas station telling a woman this way, but he goes. I wish they would smile more, you know. I wish there was more smiling. I wish they looked like they wanted to be there, because there's there's nothing worse than like a porn
video where you're like, was she trafficked? Like what is the look on their face? Unless miserable? Your role playing or something? You know, like right, right, sure, sure. I mean I remember reading a review once where like some guy like described how somebody like I think like it was something about like the amateurness of the performer was was like making them think like, oh should I not be seeing this? And Matt said the same
thing before. But it's like this taboo idea, right, like, oh boy, that's that's something so there's a layuristic thing, right, so, and that can be again, they're all different, right, there's a voyeuristick thing, and that can be hot. Like one of the scenes I did
with Ryan. You know, whether this was for real like we forgot to turn off the camera or not, but it gave that essence and it was very like I just said, Hey, we're just gonna do this, and it wasn't like, oh, open me up for the camera and do this and do that. It was very natural. Guys loved that, but some of guys wanted to be more like performance where I'm looking at the camera and that sort of thing. But so there's the authenticity, there's the fun.
My guys oftentimes basically what they described to me and what they love about what I do feel good porn. It feel better after watching it, not just because they got off, but because they feel like genuinely, I was doing this because I wanted to. It was my own volition. I kind of controlled it because I chose to be with these people, and you know, they felt good about it, feel good porn like and yeah, so could I ask you are you do you think your fans are even if it's only
fifty one percent. Again, you're not some you know, leatherbound domb But do you think your fans maybe lean a little more towards the subside in this sense? I don't know. I'm just you know what, that's funny. I don't I don't know. I don't think so because I have some dominant stuff, Like some of my solo stuff is dominant and it doesn't sell well. Okay, So you know, like there's two things like I'm just I guess I'm just a person who has boundaries and I'm a woman that has boundaries
and they respect it. What I often hear is like, you're not like the hit it and quit it. You're the person I'd want to go out to dinner with and have a glass of wine and have a nice dinner with. Like you're that's who you are. So there's a respect there of just that whether I made it. But submissive no, I don't think they are. But they're respectful well, and if they're not, they don't last long.
Sure. Now you have to wonder though, if those same guys are respectful to all performers or if it's just because this is your brain, like they're texting you or messaging you and saying I would love to take you out to dinner sometime. So wonderful, and then they bounce over to the other only fans of account Hey pig, like you know, like something like that. Who knows? Who knows? No, I don't know. I mean, you know, people are people and they can change, sure, but
yeah, I don't know. All I know is what I expect. That's and that's the point. The cool thing is you have built a brand. I called you the Tom Brady before you kind of like I've never watched the show, but I've heard reviews of You're like the ted Lasso of porn in a little bit I love. I've never seen the show watched. No, here's why. Because you're a sweetheart and I'm a monster. So I can't look at stuff that's too too sweet and be like, I really enjoy this.
I really like if Ted Lasso at the end, I don't know, suffocated on something and died, I would be like, oh, this is more tragic, Like I need more of a drama, you know, I need more more human tragedy. That's just how I feel. Well, then, then just cleanse your palette with like some Game of Thrones or something. That's what I need. I need Game of throw except like I watch Game of Thrones and I have to do this. Yeah yeah, see that's not
I go like this. I go, yeah, I don't like dragon for yeah, Shane doesn't the dragon, and I turn away every time I see a dragon. All the groups, I'm like, oh, I would like this. It's just why does it have to be so sure? Yeah? You know what your I will say this though, I think if you did one mainstream scene m hm, that would still give you a lot of scarcity, you know. And I've thought about it. Would it have to be with a podcast host? Nod you talk to my wife about that and talk
to Shane. Oh Shane's wife, Yeah, good to how about a podcast host wife? Yeah? Yeah, that's that's the best thing I can do. I've thought. I've thought about it. I mean, obviously, you know, think about it. I have shot with Lucas Frost, Ryan Driller, Max Phil's and Jay Smooth and they're all these are guys that are in and I've talked to way more. I mean, one of the first guys that wrote to me the DM ME and I was like, oh my god.
But now I've read I've figured out that Kieran Lee basically has like I think he has like a bat signal, and he knows when a new MILF is on the scene, and it's like it's a radar. Yeah, yeah, he has a radar because every like milf I know that I've talked to she's like, oh yeah, I heard from Kieran even after starting on Instagram. But I mean, I don't know, and I'm not sure. It's
one of those things I toy with. It would have to be I would have to trust whoever's doing whoever's filming it, like the director or producer whatever.
The talent is essential. Let me pause you what if a company brought you in and said, hey, we'd like you to shoot and direct and cast your first thing, and they would pay you appropriately obviously for the rolls, But I mean what if it was something where you would have total control over it but already no yeah, but but yeah, but they're they're going to pick the set and you know they'll yeah a scenario yeah yeah, well no, but shoot, I mean to shoot with you know, the big
budget. Yeah. I mean, like listen, hey, I have seen some of like the milthy by Vixen's I Love. We interviewed Penny Barber, who yeah, right, and actually I just saw that she follows me on X and I was like, so freaking honored by that. She's pretty cool. She is, yeah, yeah, and so they do beautiful stuff. But then I was talking to somebody that has not worked with them, but somebody that's a mainstream you'd probably know her, but I'm not going to disclose
that we know each other. And she's just like, yeah, the problem is you don't have the look for milthy, You're not perfect enough. I'm like, oh, okay, that's stung a little bit, but I know she was right. Well, I know what they mean. It's like that. It's it's that authenticity thing, right, It's like when when you reach a certain level of Christine in photograph, at that point, you you are unattainable. You're not real anymore in the literal sense to where you and I
are having a conversation right now. And I think that's that's the distinction she's making, you know, It's like you're a real person. Yeah, and that's fine, you know, like it's it's fine. It's all a balance. But I mean, would I ever do that I'd never say never would I ever do a gang bang. I can say unequivocally that will never happen. What I will never do, I will I will never do. There's quite a few things I will never do. Sure, Okay, fair enough,
fair enough, But I mean that's not who I am. You like kiss at all? That's no. Okay, I like this so well, that's good. I mean, drink your water. But but I'm not going to listen if it's the slow Olympics, I'm not training for that. Okay, I think that brand Yeah, yeah, yeah, We're going to wrap up here in a minute, Shane. Did you have anything else for Elena today? No? I think maybe we'll have Elena back on. I think for a second interview, because I actually have so many things I want to
ask Elena that I don't want to jump into another rabbit hole. Completely five seasons, we've only ever done one repeat interview, and most of the time when Shane gets off on these interviews, he's like, oh, that was good. We are good for one. I am impressed that you have impressed Shane so much. And you know what it is. It's the smiling, It's the authenticity, it's the authenticit like Melsh. Well, I'm curious how
you guys even found me. Oh well, yeah, well you know what, let's let's just let's let's let's take two minutes here real quick, because you're doing your podcast. Can I when you started that? Yeah, well, let's see the first one. I actually you know this is recorded, right? Yeah? Yes, go ahead? And so I recorded mine. I think it was in July. But then I first, and then I had a big trip overseas, so then I had to get everything ready. I did all kinds of stuff. I made my own music for the intro
and altro with a studio. But September, September fourth, this is the first one that I released. So we started in April of twenty twenty. And yeah, what April twenty twenty, Yeah, yeah, twenty three, twenty twenty. No, that's two thousand, twenty twenty three years ago. Oh my god, the dimensions I started when we were thirteen. Yeah. Yeah, But here's my question to you as a new podcaster, right, like, if I was starting an only fans, I would go to Elena
here, I'd go what do I do to be successful? Elena? Do you have any questions for us? Seasoned successful podcasters. By the way, the way you do it, I can explain that afterwards. Do you have any questions for us on what to do during a podcast or in podcasting in general? You don't need any help with the marketing of it, God knows, But do you have anything? You may not. If you don't,
that's fine, Well what you know what I do? So what happens when you when you have somebody that isn't Now for me, I just take up the airspace and blah blah blah as I can talk. Just ask my poor kid, who was just like, you're so chatty because I'll talk to anybody, sure, But what happens when you have somebody that have you had people that really don't talk? Oh? Yeah, yes, here's Have you ever seen the ending of the movie hell Raiser? Ah? Do I look like
I've ever seen it? It's similar to that, similar to lasso. Uh, it's not, it's the opposite of It's more like a event horizon. That's a reference something you're talking about, the part where the guy gets his head written it. I don't even want to hear it. Some interviews are not as good as the others. And what you have to do is like you said, fill the space, but filling the space also doesn't mean I think there is power in silence on certain things, especially when it comes to
an audio medium or a video medium as we have here. But there's a power to silence where sometimes what you've said and what they've said in response can elicit just a pause. And you shouldn't rush to quickly get something in as fast as you can because people are going to tune out. People like hearing and what we hear from our people on Patreon and everything else, people like
just hearing same thing as you, authentic people talking. We will talk about nothing on our comedy show, but just how our lives are going and what's going on with you, and we'll crack some jokes here, and then we'll bring up a news article and talk about that crack some jokes and what it is is. Our listeners are probably guys who have worked in a warehouse before and have heard a funny conversation going on behind them. Okay, So,
in presenting what you're doing, obviously target your audience. Would it be fair to say your audience is leaning female? Because I've watched some of your episodes, really see I would think, and maybe that is where you need to pivot and shift a little. Not that you need to change anything if you're successful. I'm just saying, if you were looking for something like that,
I think you could have a really powerful, empowering women platform. Will in there for sure sometime at some point, But right now where I'm making my money is not only fans. Oh sure, and right now I have to so it's very calculated having other women, other big creators for the most part on my podcast, because that brings in the men who want to watch and learn about these people women. At some point I'll pivot. I had somebody that wanted me to write my life story because there's a lot more to it
as it is with anybody that's reached this age. Sure, they wanted me, and they said, you have such a compelling story. Once they kept learning about different things that I've done and been through, and I said, I'm not done yet, though, I'm not ready to pivot because that a book like that is for women, sure, and I'm not ready to pivot to a woman audience. I have to be done with what I'm doing with OnlyFans sense to be able to be accessible or to be acceptable to women as
a whole, I believe. But so I see what you mean though, as far as women that want to emulate, OnlyFans would be watching my podcast, and that's fine. I think it's mostly it's guys that are into say Danny Jones and her Sweetheart and that want to see us and they want to learn more about us. I think that's who is watching the podcast. Jerking off at work. That's that, Jane, go ahead, repeat it Just dudes jerking off at work, you know, because you can't have porn on
the company computer. Yeah, I mean they can listen to it. I mean I still sell my audiobook and I'm not talking about sexy stuff on my audiobook. I'm talking the way I talk to you guys, you know, and I still sell it around the world. I picture though, something like there's the Call Her Daddy podcast, which I would say a majority of that audience is female, right, totally, That one is totally fam I get that. But if you look at Holly Randalls, because then you say,
okay, well then who's going to be my guest Matt. If I'm if I'm leaning into women, wouldn't you think it would be male porn stars? No, nobody wants to hear that. I wouldn't think so I would actually think if I'm a woman, maybe maybe I don't have the self confidence that someone like you had. So I'm going to you almost like those online influence like Gary Vee who's like, hey, go to a yard sale and just buy a treasure and sell it and then keep flipping it and then you'll have
your Ferrari. You are going, hey, I'm a strong woman who started at what I did later in life. I am so strong, so powerful, Look what I have created. Now, I want to talk to somebody else across the room, for me, across the zom for me, whatever you want to say, who also did it, but in a different way. Let's figure out what is relatable between the two of us, and let's let our audience figure out what is relatable between them and us. Yeah, that's really good point, Matt, you do. It's a good point.
You make a great point too, a pivot look you have once you have, once you have exhausted, you can also do specials. Do the Empowering Women's Specials five episodes. Go ahead, Well, I have taught right, people have talked to me about doing motivational speaking at some point, I'm totally in on that. I mean, there's so many things, there's so many
aspects where you know, and these are things that don't excite men. To know that I had a kid on my own, to know that I've done this on my own, and this on my own, this on my own. That I haven't needed a man. I've needed thousands of men, sure, you know, like, but I haven't needed a man. There is no as they call it in the industry, suitcase pimp that's making this happen. I don't have a husband that's doing all this stuff for me, and
I'm just like showing up and being pretty. I'm doing all this sure, So it's it is interesting, and I guess really honestly, I haven't really thought about who my audience is for the podcast. I'm presenting stories and presenting people, and it's going to be more of a mix than my Instagram. My Instagram is two percent women, which is goes back to what you asked us earlier, how did we find you? How do we get our start?
So Shane and I have only ever reached out to try and talk to interesting people, and we met a woman on Reddit her name was an estate No something. This was years ago. Anyway, she wrote a series of three books about how she was actively cheating on her husband, and she did an interview with us while she was in her car because her husband was inside and she didn't want them to know it. She would travel a lot for business trips, hook up with guys on the road, and come back because
her husband was uninterested in the relationship. They had been together too long. Maybe whatever divorse wasn't on the table, but it happens. So we had her on again. I just want to talk to interesting people. I don't care what your job is. All due respect to all the porn stars we talked to, if I could talk to all of the number one NASCAR people in the world, I would spend weeks learning about NASCAR so I could have
an interesting conversation. Wouldn't I would? I absolutely would. You can only you can only learn eight hours worth of NASCAR run out a NASCAR drinking mountain dew and putting trucker hats on. So we had her on. She was a big success, which led to we put that in the cuckold room of Reddit. Uh led to a woman reaching out to us and saying I am a cut queen. I am a woman that likes to have her husband have
sex with other women, and I like to watch. And I run a website, and that was Suzanne Ferrari and Dan Ferrari of slut inspection dot com. From there, we saw our numbers exponentially go up because you have a name on there and it's you know, boost you. So then you start the long process of going in your emails and crafting a template that is both polite and friendly but direct to the point. I'd like to talk to Elena. Uh, my name is Matt. I run a podcast. It is
a very sex positive podcast. We would like to have you on to promote your only fan Da da da da da. Here's the other interviews we've done. Yeada, YadA YadA. Eventually, you get on enough people directly that you start making waves on a Twitter or something like that, and PR agents start seeing you and they start saying, hey, I saw this, I would love to get my person on your show. And the first one that contacted us was Erica from the RUBPR, and then Ari Mike Mike Whittaker from
a Honeyhouse PR. And then I spoke to your pr agent because yeah, I reach out to him. I said, Wow, he's got a really great roster. He's got a lot of good girls on there. I would love to speak to them. And there were some that didn't include and you were one of the ones. I did because I found your story fascinating. I love anyone who goes. I fucking hate what I'm doing. I'm going to put all of my resources into something that makes me happy. Because I've
said this since probably freshman year of college. I've said and I didn't follow it, and that's very sad. But I said, if you love garbage, there's a ceo of waste management. You can find a way to get there if you are passionate and you love something. I worked at best Buy in high school. The CEO of best Buy was a guy who started stocking shelves there, worked his way up. He's the boss now. He got fired for incorporate. He got fired for inappropriate sexual stuff, but anyway left
him in dock. But I think what you're doing is great. I think more women should attempt to do what you do, at least follow the instructions on that you've kind of given here without maybe even meaning to. Is just find your brand, find your niche, work hard at it, keep control over your content. Make sure you don't stray too far away from your niche unless you're trying to introduce a new niche. Maybe know your brand, all your boundaries. You can try it. You can try it, and guys,
you know you could. You could decide we're going to do a cooking show. But that's a passion project and that you have to realize it might not be successful. It's again when I mentioned like mainstream entertainment and how I understand these people and kind of how they do things. You know, you talk about like a action hero, which that's how he makes his money. He's an action hero, sure, but once in a while he wants to do something because he wants to do it. That's the passion project. So
sometimes I do things because I want to do them. Maybe they're not going to be commercially that viable except for my true fan fans fan base, but you know, creatively I want to do something. There you go, ladies and gentlemen. I want to thank Elenea Saint James for coming on with us today. Make sure you check out her podcast Chat and Laugh. Check out her book how to date a hot older woman. We need to have her back on just in case something ever happens to my wife. I'm gonna need
a hot older woman because there are advantages to older women. You know, there's advantages before we have you on. Yeah, yeah, there's disadvantages, like what we don't take shit? Oh, I like vaginal mesh falling out? Well I don't I've never had that, but I'm yeah, disclosure, sure, I don't need that. Well probably since men live less, we'll probably die around the same time. I mean, there's that. There's a
whole conversation. I kind of dig into my sixty two pages on that, how to date a hot older woman and make sure you follow her on to go ahead? What you got the bioevolution of mill hunting. Yeah, that's okay, that's that should be the next book. Yeah. Sometimes he just laughs at stuff, Elena, and we'll just run with it. We just oh, yeah, that was a good process, and yeah, that was good science stuff. I'm just imagining what what because she said she went into
a section about it. I'm like just imagining, what what do you list, like the pros and cons of dating an older woman? Okay, yeah, there you go. Yeah, I go into it. I go into it. But Gore, Matt, We're like his outro is like all being screwed up. Yeah, stepped all of it. It's okay, It's it's all right. He can start over. I got social media stuff for you as well that we're gonna cut real, real quick after this. So check out her podcast, Chat and Laugh. I know I have a script here,
and Shane just started shouting about bioevolution in the middle of it. Sure check, I didn't you just started talking. Watch it back, watch it back. Chat and Laugh is Elena's podcast. Her book had a data hot older woman. Make sure you follow her on Twitter and Instagram at Elena Saint James. Most importantly, go and subscribe to her only fans at Elena Underscore Saint James. Links to All of that stuff is going to be in the
episode description. So if you didn't catch it the first time I said it, make sure you go down there at least bare minimum, give her a follow and throw some likes up there, because building those numbers is important. Flows downhill. Elena, thank you very much for coming on with us today. Thanks guys, this was fun and hey, it was really neat that you gave me the first thousand dollars for being here. That was really awesome. It was really cool. We else has gotten that. That was pretty
cool of us. Yeah. I just sent that over on Venmo. It was a good line. Yeah, that was good. It's going to screw us in the future, so at least I helped you get screwed there. That was honestly just to make up for that dick pic I sent right before the interview started. Okay, very good, but I didn't get it. You sent it to Matt, Yeah, I told him forward it to her. Make sure Elena sees this. Eight and a half for your worst friend I met. I'm Shane. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next week. Str