¶ Faith and Science in Conversation
Hello , hello , welcome back . God's diamonds in the rough , the podcast amen . We are so glad that you have decided to come back and listen to us one more time . We hope that your day is going well .
If you don't know who I am , my name is Catherine Michael's not here today , he's actually resting at the moment and so you have myself and I have a guest with me on today that I will be interviewing . So , since Michael is not here , she'll be , in so many words , co-hosting with me on today .
Her name is Cynthia Wilkins and she is a author and she's also a trained follower of Jesus Christ . Amen , and trained , I would say , maybe educationally , but , I know , definitely by the spirit , amen . So I'm going to allow her to say hello and , you know , get in the door , but first we are going to pray . So , father , we thank you so much for this day .
Thank you , god , for our last night's sleep and our early rise this morning .
We pray , god , in the name of Jesus , that as we go forth in your name , god , that you would lead God and order our steps , we bring our diamonds to you , we bring ourselves to you , we bring this diamonds to you , we bring ourselves to you , we bring this conversation to you , we bring it all to you , father , that you will just simply have your way .
We thank you , god , and we bless your name . We pray this all of the things we need to do out of the way . So now we want to ask Miss Cynthia to please say hello to our diamonds .
Yes , my name is Cynthia Wilkening and I've written a book called Water is Faithful . Thank you for mind , body and soul . And , as I was explaining to Catherine before coming on the air , haiku is a Japanese poetry format that's been around for centuries and it mostly talks about nature and Buddhism .
In my education a little bit , we learned about haiku in high school , but I really started applying it to my Christian faith about 20 years ago or less and I just decided how about using the structure of haiku but write about different topics , including not just nature , but also human nature , the modern life and also , as a background , the love of Jesus ?
so so you deal a lot just listening to everything that you said thus far , before we're done , I'd like for you to actually share one of your hakus that you've written . Um , this is definitely an intriguing , very intriguing art , and it's definitely a art . It is not as simple as it sounds , um , but uh , what is , according to what the Spirit is giving you ?
The animosity between Christian faith and science .
Well , at one point there wasn't so much animosity . Way back in Galileo's day and Isaac Newton , they saw the natural world and the beginnings of science as a way of worshiping God and understanding how God made his wonderful creation .
And when the Enlightenment hit I believe it's the 1700s when the Enlightenment hit I believe it's the 1700s and different people such as Darwin came into studying things and coming up with his book it kind of the idea of God seemed distant . And not just that , but do we need God to explain the world ?
And it seems like right now there are quite a few very outspoken people in today's world that are Christians and also scientists , and one of them is John Lennox .
He has written quite a bit about his Christian faith and his standing as a mathematician and bioethicist I'm dealing with bioethics and I wholeheartedly encourage you to listen to some of his YouTube videos as far as someone who has a very strong faith and a strong sense of science and and has atheist friends .
But he always comes back to him a little much and , um , I think a part of the animosity today is that Christians really don't understand how science works and what science can ask and answer , and scientists many by and large , do not understand the Christian faith and how , in some essence , we're both looking at reality from different points of view and can learn
from each other . And actually one of my poems in the book Water is Faithful Haiku for Mind , body and Soul reads singularity manifested by Jesus . I can't remember the phrase . I'm sorry , you're fine , I'm sorry .
You're fine . Well , as you're getting there , is that what you're're I was getting ready to say ? Can you like , in a simple way , share the difference between the two , since you've studied both and still practicing both practicing correct well , I'm retired now but I still write poetry .
The particular poem I was getting at , I'll explain Singularity manifested in Jesus . The Big Bang was his . There's a little , there's things in there . On both sides they say , well , we don't agree with that . But the singularity for the scientist is where , the microsecond before the Big Bang , and they can't figure it out .
And it just happened that a 14-year-old autistic young man in Sunday school blurted out one day it was kind of an informal time and he says Jesus is the singularity . And I said well , you may have something there , and then nothing came of it . And I thought I would include that thought in my poems because it ties together faith in Jesus and science .
Because Jesus , the Son , god , the Father , god , the Holy Spirit , lived in triune love , not just lived , they still live in triune love . And Jesus wanted matter , god wanted a family , and so he created the universe . And I had no problem with the Big Bang . Let there be light . There was light way before there was the sun , and that's just amazing .
And the pictures that are coming back from the Webb telescope showing beginnings of the universe I don't think it's a coincidence that we're seeing that in this time in history .
So I think , as far as the animosity , I mean , the average person may not understand that science can a lot of times only deal with things that can be replicated , but the universe creation was a one-time event .
So seeing God and seeing Jesus and the Holy Spirit and the creation of the universe , I don't have a problem with it starting as a big thing and then for the scientists to come to faith and understand that Jesus was the tipping point . We don't know exactly when , because the spirit world is outside Jesus .
God , the Father , god , the Son , god , the Holy Spirit is out there outside of time and they're outside of space .
And the fact that I'm rambling here a little bit perhaps , but the fact that God made himself known to humanity through Jesus , he broke through the spirit world and he broke through time and matter and became a human being , which is , I mean , for him to condescend to becoming one of us , just so that we would know that we're not without love in the world .
You know , with you saying with everything , because that was a lot , being honest , that was a lot , and you know , it just brings me right to Psalms 8 , which I was actually reading this morning . Psalms 8 , and .
I believe that it just fits right here in this conversation when it says it says David is talking about the majesty and the excellency of Jesus and everything that you just said .
It says what is man that thou art mindful of him and the son of man that thou visitest him , for thou hast made him a little lower than the angels and has crowned him with the glory and honor ? The fact that you know , as said , broke through . He broke through time , he broke through the universe .
He did all of that for us and David notices and he recognizes the fact that . Do you realize really , really making a point to us to say do you realize who you are serving ? We're serving the almighty and you know we can't capsize him in time , we can't capsize him in science , in anything that we can see or touch . Really , what is your thoughts to that ?
I mean , would you agree with that ? Would I just say it to that .
I mean , would you agree with that ? Would I just say it . Well , he certainly healed the sick and bound up the wounded in ways that we scientists don't and can't understand . I mean , science moves , like in medicine stuff . It moves in experiments and ideas that can come to people as sometimes as serendipity , and those ideas are thoughts from God to move .
I have a poem about serendipity that it's placed in minds that are ready , because sometimes people you know it's like the light bulb goes off . Aha , why didn't ? Maybe ?
Okay , so let me ask you another question . Yes , so are you familiar with the formation of a diamond ?
Yes , a little bit , Maybe you can explain .
So this is what I was going to get you to explain . Okay , so this is what I was going to get you to explain . Speak to who the the formation of diamonds . Um , that speaks to how how god created us as humans .
Figuratively , I'm talking about the relationship of the building of the diamond and the building of man , since , since you are familiar with the science of it and also connected by the faith I don't know if that makes any sense , but I don't know .
It just came to me as you were talking about the science and how we are relating people to diamonds Carefully crafted through all kinds of things . Maybe you can bring the relationship together and ultimately , within all of that , share with us your message .
Okay , well , diamonds , they start out , if I remember correctly , they start out as dirt and they are under a great deal of pressure . That's why they're found in mines . They're found in dirt , found in the dirt , I think because of that pressure they become clear .
I think what I would say is that where you have diamonds in the rough , you have to dig down into the dirt in the mine and find these gems . I think what I would say is that people are diamonds in the rough . Say is that people are diamonds in the rock . I'm sorry , I lost my train of thought .
Well , one thing to note as you're thinking we want to definitely always be authentic and speak in a way where people can just they can . It's tangible , it's understandable . I don't ever want anybody to come on here and be confused about what I say or anybody else say or anybody else , and so this is why I said what's your message ?
Because there's a lot of information , a lot of information , and it's like it becomes what do I do with this information ? So , ultimately , this is why I asked what is your message to the diamonds ? What is your message to the believers ? I mean , with science and faith and the art of haiku , what is the message ?
I mean , I'm just asking you to speak from your heart .
What is your desire that people understand about you and what God has given me ? Ideas of how to bring science and faith together instead of splitting them
¶ Conversations on Faith and Humanity
apart . Right , and I mean one thing that I've always felt I've always had problems with evolution . In terms of human beings , I can definitely understand a black moth resting or living on a black tree will not be eaten by the birds , whereas a white moth will be , and so , because they survive , then the white moths , they'll live on the bright tree .
But when it comes to human beings , I've always felt that there had to be a human man and a human woman to have a human baby , human woman to have a human baby . And I've listened to other scientists who will say that you know , as far as evolution goes well , that you know that's poo-poo , and they can't , they don't , they don't address that fact .
And so the creation story , I feel , has a lot of merit , and I have a poem that says something from nothing . Only God could do it right .
Spirit births matter , and that goes back to what I was saying earlier about the vain , and so I think God was the creator of the human race , and because spirit births matter , we matter in his sight , every single person on the planet , not just the well connected or the famous or people who make a lot of noise . It's everyone .
And the people who make a lot of noise , it's everyone . And I think Christ brings that out in his life , how much he cared for his disciples and how much he trained them to spread the word after he was gone . And I think too that , jesus I'm sorry , I lost my train of thought you're fine , you're fine , you're fine .
Well , it's okay , it's okay .
I think my message is is that because God wanted families so much that people on the planet matter to him ? It's just not as I said . And because we all matter , it's just . It's a very freeing thing to understand that that for many people that somebody loves them .
There are a lot of people on earth that are in terrible circumstances and they have no sense of love . I think I read once where Bible translators were going , were trying to develop a translation for a particular tribe and their language did not have a word for love . It's like the concept wasn't there .
Okay , will you read one of your poems or hakus ?
Yeah , I've been reading a few of them , I think , as far as animosity between science and faith and also hatred , hatred is evil . Only God's love fights its strength , breaking hate's power . And hate is really it seems to be the emotion of the day .
I mean I was reading there was a big fight in a football game between a couple of different fans and team members . Fans and team members and the whole football organization is just really upset that somebody would fly off the handle and just hit people because they belong to a different team and it's just .
I mean , it seems like so many people just want to lash out instead of seeing the other side and just taking things so personally , like a football game . That's why God's love has to be in there . A lot of times to de-escalate tension , the love of God is brought in .
Amen . Attention , the love of God is brought in Amen . So where can we get your book ?
Okay , the book Water is Faithful . Thank you for Mind , body and Soul . It's on Amazon , it has both a paperback and a Kindle , and it can also be found on a lot of different online bookstores . And if you have a favorite independent bookstore , uh , you can ask .
If it's not on the shelf , which it may not be , but if it's , if you're interested , you can order it through your independent bookstore , because it's on Ingram , which is the wholesale division . It's a wholesale company that caters to bookstores and libraries . I'd love to have you check it out . I don't use a lot of too much scientific jargon .
A lot of too much scientific jargon . A lot of it is very straightforward . For example , god's zeal can do it . He lives far out of the box . Do not hem him in , and so many people will say that can't happen , and so many , many , many people will say that can't happen . For example , the virgin birth . You can't tell God what he can or cannot do .
He can do spiritual things and amazing , miraculous things . Miraculous things . I think that's another part of my message is that God is God and he definitely does not only exist , but he holds the universe in his hand together .
That's right , amen , and you have a website .
I have a static website , cynthiawilkeningcom C-Y-N-T-H-I-A , w-i-l-k-e-n-i-n-g dot com , and it has some information on it about the book and about myself a little bit , and I'm not on social media I'm something of a dinosaur , I'm afraid , in that regard but I can be contacted by email , which is wilkeningscindy at gmailcom , and I love to hear from people dot com , and
I'd love to hear from people and I very much would be interested in finding out how a person of faith reads this book , and I would also encourage any of your readers who are listeners , who are in science as well as faith , to check out some of the poems and how they speak to this , and they speak to a lot of people in different situations .
Amen , Okay Well , did you have anything else you want to share before we get ready to get off of here ? Any final word ? Just anything that's in your spirit to share ?
The only thing else I would like to share is that I have issues with mental illness and so many people do these things . I've had this for a long time over 50 years I've been fighting this and the problems with speaking sometimes happen because of this . But I've always said I always tell people don't let a diagnosis define who you are . That's right , amen .
So y'all heard it . I mean science , faith , all of that . Amen to God , be the glory . All of it makes a difference to God , and we can try to dismiss it , we can try to move it out of the way , but it exists . Faith and science , they both exist , and I believe that God created it all . I really do Amen , really do amen .
So , um , and that final thought is powerful , because we cannot allow what a diagnosis , uh , says to define us . So you know , miss cynthia , I certainly encourage you to continue to go forth in what god has called you to do amen . Don't allow what anybody have to say to stop you . Amen . And we thank you so much for being here . Amen . So y'all let's pray .
Father , we thank you so much for this conversation . We thank you so much for this woman of God . We pray not only for her , but we pray for her husband and her children and all that you called her to do . God , I pray that you would bless it , uh , that you would get your glory out of it . We pray for everyone that is listening . We pray .
The blessings of the lord be upon each and every one of us . We pray in the name of jesus . You continue to do a work that only you can do . We thank you so much and we bless your name we pray this prayer in the mighty name of Jesus Christ . We do pray Amen , amen and amen . Y'all know how we do it . Please remember that you are .
You are absolutely a diamond in the rough . God bless you and we'll see you on next week . Amen , amen , amen .
Amen .