84. Dave Weckl: The Drumming Legend on Chick Corea, Simon & Garfunkel, Master Plan, Career, Innovation, Legacy

We are athletes playing this instrument, and you have to train as such if you really want to be on top of your game. You seem like someone who's always been focused, serious, and intentional. Where did you get that from? smile all day while they're playing, you know, it's like, f I can't do that. You know? I want my drums to have a fidelity, sonically pleasing quality on the stage.

You never know who's gonna be in the audience. Every time you play, you gotta play like you're doing an audition because you don't know. It was because of that gig that Peter recommended. Basically the rest of my career.

And that leads to you getting the Simon and Garf Uncle reunion tour. That's correct. And so at that point you're twenty three years old? That is also correct. What was market rate back then for a gig like that? I actually started to work with guys like Niall Rogers.

With Nile, I worked on Diana Ross, George Benson, Madonna and at the bottom line gig is where Chick had found out about me. And that's when he asked me to join him and John and do this electric band thing. With electric band How did you guys write music? I never got a drum chart ever. I always got a P.

Chick was under contract and there was a record coming due and Chick was like, I don't have it and that's the record we want a Grammy for. At this point are you like Burnt out? Yes. Yeah, I said Chick, I gotta go, man.

With Mike and his music, especially in a trio situation, man, it was really it's a demanding gig for a drummer. What goes into developing your Vic Firth signature sticks? This stick took two and a half years to design. Through hundreds, hundreds of prototypes. How did you think to put holes in the symbols? I I remember listening to Gad on records and

I was like, God, this crash set, what the heck is he playing? It sounds like a I don't know what it sounds like, but it's just fantastic, you know. Then I I'd go to see him play and I realized that half his symbols were cracked. How do you feel when you show up to a concert? And you see a a drummer playing your symbolite. Depends on how they're playing though. Hey oh

Let's go. What is up everybody? Welcome back to the show. Today's guest is one of the most influential drummers of all time. He's in the Modern Drummer Hall of Fame and he's been voted in the top twenty five greatest drummers of all time. His name is Dave Weckle. Dave is personally one of my favorite drummers ever. He has influenced me since I was a young kid, so I'm so excited. that I got to spend so much time with him today.

Diving deep. This is a two and a half hour deep dive with Dave Weckel. I believe it's the deepest interview that Dave has ever done. So Very grateful for the time with him. Thank you, Dave. I learned so much in this and I hope that you do as well. So we go deep into where Dave got his ferocious practice routine from, how he became Dave Weckel in his sound with all of his physical.

And mental abilities. Then of course we go into how he got the gig with Simon and Garfunkel, which changed his career. And then of course his relationship with Chick Korea and the making of the electric band and the acoustic band. We go into how he created all of his educational DVDs and became the master clinician and educator that he is and all of his solo albums. We go into it all. I think we covered the entire

Spectrum and career of the amazing guy that is Dave Weckle. So I hope you enjoy this interview as much.

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If you're a drummer and you don't know this yet, we have one of the deepest drum archives I think that's available on the internet. I've interviewed so many of my favorite drummers on this channel. You can check them all out. So some of the drummers that we have, of course, as of today, Dave Weckle.

We have Steve Smith, Thomas Lang, Luke Holland, Narda Michael Walden, two interviews with John J.R. Robinson, Omar Hakeem, Larnell Lewis, Devin Stick, and the D. Taylor, Mark Juliana, Ronald Bruner Jr. Daru Jones, Grayson Nakrutman, Nate Smith, Brian Fraser Moore.

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Now without further ado, here is my interview with the one, the only Dave Weckle. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the show. Sitting with me today is one of the greatest drummers of all time. Oh boy. He went from the electric band to executing his master plan. He's played with Simon to Stern, Brecker Benson, and Chick. Now drummers everywhere play his cymbals and sticks. Your favorite drummers call him next level special. Make a ton of noise for Dave Wacker!

Elmo, I don't think anybody can introduce a podcast guest quite like you, my man. I have to say.

That means a lot, my friend. Great to see you, Dave. Hey, thanks, man. Thanks for having me here. Okay, so born in St. Louis, started drumming at a real early age. And I know that you it seemed like as quickly as possible wanted to get into the scene. You're like, I need to get to the East Coast. I need to be around the great.

And I I want I know you eventually you went to you went to college in Connecticut and then got into the New York scene, but I guess before that,'cause when I think of you, you seem like someone who's always been focused and serious and intentional. Where did you get that from? Father. Yeah, my dad I mean my parents, my mom too. She they they were I was an only kid, so there was no, you know, um sibling

interjection or or if I, you know, quite honestly would say distraction or competition. It was a I was the last attempt at at three tries. My mom was very small lady and had difficulty having children, so, um I w I was kinda last attempt and, you know, so You know, spoiled rotten. I was starting to do it.

Started to gain weight at a ear at an early age'cause they were just like, Feed him, feed him, keep him alive, you know, keep yeah, yeah. Make sure he's healthy. Which was quite the quite the opposite, you know. I was the first out of my mom had three miscarriages uh before me and then I was the first to make it too, so I had that same spoiled feed.

Yeah, my you know, my dad was army, um you know, he was he was on his way over over to Normandy actually on the boat when the whole thing stopped, thankfully. Um staff sergeant staff sergeant in the army and um uh he was a pretty serious guy. He was uh you know, he w he he um he worked out. It was a he was a sports guy, um and Um and he played a little piano. Um so there was just a A pretty full on heavy i if if if not sometimes angry management about um about the household, you know.

Um y I mean never never crazy, but but to the to the point of let's just say he was hard on me. Um and I was uh You know, it was tough. It was tough sometimes. Um, both both in sports and in music. But the funny thing was when I you know, I when I was like Seven. six or seven in that area years old. I really wanted to be a guitar player. I was like I was like into the monkey. Michael Michael Nesmith and the U.S.

You know, and I'm a car guy, so the monkey's car was a sixty six GTO that was done up into this crazy monkey mobile, right? So you've always been a car guy since you were since you were a teenager. Oh man, you've had no idea. So um

Yeah, the family was was into it. It was a GTO family actually, but uh there was four of them in the family at one time when I was a kid. Um yeah, so I come by it fairly honestly. Um But uh um you know the music thing, once I discovered that I didn't want to play guitar uh and that

I I don't illy really remember, you know, kind of the the transition or the reason or how. Um I just know that at the time my next door neighbor was had had two guys. One was close to my age, a little older. And you know, they were brothers and actually three. And they they had a little garage base.

and and everybody in the neighborhood, it was like a competing garage band type of thing. So it was kinda cool. And uh you know, so so the guy I would hang out with these guys and he would show me some stuff and I just started getting boxes and putting me on the bed and stealing my mother's pan lids, which didn't go over so well so

So my dad got me this cheap little three piece kit, put it in his little T V workroom that he did on the side hustle gig, and um I just started playing to rock records. And I for some reason it I don't know, it kinda came easy. Uh I could I could I could listen and emulate and kinda copy these beats and and just play to kind of pop rock stuff was was where it where it started. And that was that was the beginning of it. And I I

I realized I could I could do it, you know, pretty well quickly and and my dad was like not criticizing me. It wasn't giving me a bunch of trouble, you know, and he was supporting it. And so that was kind of like, Okay, I you know This works. I can I g I I'm doing this and there's approval, you know, rather than getting smashed in you know, on sports.

I was pretty good at that too, but not great. And you know, yeah, I think he thought he was better than me at that, so he could constantly critique, you know. But in the music he was just like, Wow, those kids got something kinda natural and special maybe, you know, so he just supported it and let me do it and um you know, there were times later when I was twelve

ish, thirteen. You know, I was into s I was into sports. I was playing baseball and football and girls It's like my dad and I was in practicing that. like one summer and he just said, you know, we said

You better get to it if you're gonna do this. Yeah. And um that was the only time he kind of critiqued me, but he said, Yeah, he said thirty minutes a day isn't enough, man. You need to like you know, if you're gonna do it, he says you're good, but you need to, you know, you wanna get better, you gotta keep going.

Anyway, by the time I was fourteen I I cancelled all the sports and kinda got rid of that crowd of of people and just, you know, at the b at about the same time Um you know, I was in the I was in the high school jazz band, uh Francis Hall in Weldon Springs, which is a county of St. Charles, which is a county of St. Louis. And uh I got in the band and I I seventy five, you know, we played Buddy Rich's West Side Story.

I was fifteen. Um and in and the band was good. We were into it. I had, you know, my musician friends and, you know, we had concert band, we had marching band, we had all this stuff. And um and so the I won this scholarship in seventy-five when I was fifteen to the Stan Kenton Bandcamp in Drury, at Drury College in Springfield. And And in that camp, um, you know, I was expecting to go to see Peter Erskine, who who was on the Fire Fury and Fun record, Stan Kenton. And um

And I I got there and I found out he wasn't there. I I I was told he just left the band like two weeks ago, you know, and there was this guy, Gary Hobbs, there and I was like, Who the hell's Gary Hobbs? Bummer. And then Gary, Gary started to play, and I was like, wow, this guy's really good too. So it's like it was really cool and he was so supportive and you know it was it was it was quite the thing. Anyway, at that camp, I met Tom Kennedy and his brother Ray.

So that a and we lived w we found out we didn't know each other before then, because we're different schools, different, you know, different uh territory. And um and once we once we realized we lived close enough that, you know, my we could get together and play, my dad would pack up the drums, my little grutch kit and go over to the to Tom and Ray's house and and we'd play.

Like for hours, you know. And this was this became like a a weekend event, you know. And um and then Tom introduced me to Jay Oliver. And then we uh I I ended up setting up a drum set at Jay Oliver's for you know, permanently and And we just w we were just jamming and hanging all the time. So so yeah, that's when the that's when the kind of the transition, you know, away from the sports and and into the um full time music, you know, dedicated Tail, feel your body relax.

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So Jay Oliver was in your life at a young age. Yeah. From fifteen, sixteen. Yeah. As a teenager you had you had very talented young people with your young That must have pushed your drive. Well, it you know, the the school system here, um the school systems, you know, they're I mean the band competitions, both marching, um, not so much concert bands, but

But the marching bands and the jazz bands, I mean it was it was h it was full on, man. I mean, we would go to these competitions And, you know, and and my you know, between my band, my school, Francis Hall and Jay's, which I think was Parkway something west or central, I don't remember. um who had a g a great drummer, Kevin Giannino, who is a St. Louis local guy as well.

another great player that w that he's still here. So we're it's kind of like the nucleus, like Bill Lenahan is another wonderful, incredible musician that spends time teaching in Italy and but he's here. Bill J. Um Tommy's not here anymore, he's in New York, but um but we fly him in all the time to do stuff. That kind of nucleus of, you know, the guys that we played with, you know.

the the biggest percentage of them are still kinda for for some reason they're either they stayed or they came back or whatever the case. And it's kinda we're just in this place right now where we're all here so we get together again and and do stuff and um and and we have uh our friends the Silverman brothers also who who are um a drummer and a keyboard player that are

they're so important for this city, you know, they they're I mean they're great musicians but they also they really give back. They they help out a lot with uh with with festivals. um, free concerts and, you know, just promoting the music and they're and they're very good to us, you know, so they we we we do stuff together all the time.

Um so it's really a nice a nice hang. But the point the point was that, you know, back then the high school thing, I mean, that was like uh a a good portion of the incentive, you know, to to study and to practice and rehearse and and um you know to do these competitions. And I I ended up winning like the the N A J E National Association of Jazz educators, um I ended up winning on the next two years as well and went back to the camp.

Again, the can't can't And by the third year I had gotten into the first band, which was Hank Levy's band.

And and that was a that was a trip. Um but but I I met I met a lot of people there that have somehow come back into my life too, even from those days that I didn't know. It was um one in particular is a student of mine that that um That I I didn't know him back then, but but the way he tells a story is yeah, I was I was in the number one band until this kid from St. Charles came in and blew me out of the

out of the seat. And um and it's kinda funny'cause he's kinda now my my student again, you know. I I do a consulting thing with him once a year and um

So that was kinda neat. But um but yeah, there's a it it's just uh it was a it was it was just a the environment, you know, in the Midwest, uh you know, there I mean quite honestly, man, it just wasn't a lot else to do if you weren't into sports, you know, I mean I mean, you know, let's face it, man, we we grew I grew up maybe not you, you're young, um uh but I grew up, you know, before the digital age. I grew up before any anything

You know, it was records, man. We had to listen. It was, you know, records and then and then these things called cassettes came which was oh man, portable. We can you know, cassettes in the car, holy crap. You know, then the then the C Ds came and then, you know, I'm not quite sure of the the time period there of of or the timeline um between you know VHS tapes started to appear. You know, because before that in the in the early eighties or whenever it was

you know, yeah, it's you have to go see people live or uh on T V, maybe, you know. Yeah. There just wasn't the you know, the access and And so it was it was really um It was difficult to understand what it actually was to be able to see it, right? So you have to listen. That's the only way we had to learn where it was able to were able to. And I always tell my students now, either in my school or when I teach privately, I said, Look, I said, you know, YouTube is fantastic.

It's like it's just there to see everything, right? Um you know, past, present, you know, and uh it's just uh it's incredible. I said, but I said, do this. When you listen to something, when you find something, you find someone that you like, you want to listen to. Turn the screen off. And play it five times, at least. Before you look at it. And close your eyes, and you got to go in with the ears, with the senses, and go in and listen to what.

They're doing. Listen to go in you know, first time you listen to the to the you know, the kick and the snare. You know, what the what what the actual sound, the dynamic, the touch, what's going on, how's the integration of the hi-hat, the cymbals, the tomto? What's going on? Listening only. And I I still contend that that you know, that was a big Big part of you know, our development, people that, you know, grew up before all the all this visual, you know, um sense stuff.

Uh it was a big part of of really understanding sonically and which which kind of translated into the touch, you know, of of how to make those sounds musically. And then we would put it together when, you know, when when Buddy Rich or or Maynard with with Erskine or, you know, Stan Kenton or whoever would come to town. Um While I'm talking about St. Louis and you know, uh when I was still here. Uh so that was an early part of development, you know, but I I never got close enough to any.

But when I moved to New York in seventy nine, when I was nineteen That's the first time I got to go see all the New York guys that I was listening to. you know, um Steve Jordan. Of course Steve G uh Erskine as a big one. Peter was a big one'cause yeah,'cause Peter would Peter would play a lot with um uh with Jocko and and he would do a bunch of special things. And I was I w I was such a you know, a big fan and just loved Peter's playing.

from the when I discovered him with Stan Kenton. But then I started to to listen to everything that he was coming out on. He was there was a bunch of a bunch of records that he was coming out on. And um and I just I just loved his playing and still do. I mean it's he's just one of my favorite favorite players. Yes. And um I love him. And um uh

Yeah, so so I I would go and hang. I'd I'd I'd go to Seventh Avenue South, I'd go to McKell's wherever these guys were playing and I would just hang out and I went to see Steve Gad finally and And um and and that was a life all those were they were life changing moments. But of course Gad was yeah, I mean Gad kind of was sitting in this you know, on this on this pedestal, you know, where, you know, all of us were well, f me in particular.

Man. Just it just struck a chord at you know, listening to him play and all the chick records and anything that had come out previous. And then I got to see him and I recorded the show. and I still have it. I have it on my phone actually. I digitized it with step. And I made a C D for him and I made a C D for Randy Brecker too,'cause Michael wasn't around anymore by the time I got it digitized. unfortunately. Um but um that w one of the most astounding performances ever of all this.

Remember playing it for Steve and uh in a Japanese ho uh hotel in Japan, you know, ten years ago. And he was listening to it. Yeah, we played a we played a lot of notes, didn't we? It was really funny, you know. But I I was like, Steve, you have no idea, dude, how important you know, th that era, you know, and you're playing and, you know, just was for me and and and millions of other drummers, you know. And um

Yeah, so um anyway I kinda lost track of where we're where we're going with that with with all this discussion. But but but that's kinda Yeah, that's kinda that's kinda the the the the the path so far, you know, through um you know, through the high school, you know, bands and then um

figuring out through my high school connections. And actually it was it was kind of funny because it was at the Stan Kenton That's what I wanna say before and I forgot at the Stan Kenton bandcams is where I met Neil Slater. And Neil Slater was the piano player that was um that was there doing some some clinics and classes and teaching. Uh and And then so when I came back my my senior year, um the

The guy that was coming in, Bert something, I can't remember his name too, unfortunately, but he uh he said, Hey man, Slater y I was'cause I was either thinking of going to North Texas, Berkeley, um, but I really wanted to go someplace near New York. I wanted to be I wanted to be there, I wanted to be where the action was happening, where all my favorite players were playing.

And um and he said, Well, you know, University of Bridgeport, uh, in Connecticut is an hour from the city and Neil Slater, who you know, is teaching there and he said, you know, send a d send a send a tape, send a v uh a cassette, um of your playing. And and so I did. I I sent a tape and I got the message back that he goes, Well, if you can read as good as you can play, you're probably gonna be in the first band at Bridge.

So that was the beginning of that. Yeah, so I I kinda came in and and um displaced my good friend Joe Rosenblatt. When I went to Bridgeport and um and uh yeah, so it he thanks me to this day, but um'cause it kinda kinda kicked him in the butt to to to

you know, gets get a little more serious with it. And um of course we know Joel's a fantastic player, so Oh yeah. Um so yeah, so we ch we shared the chair in Bridgeport and um And uh And and we and again we we we made some records with that band, we we did some tours, we you know, there wasn't necessarily the competition thing, but

Um but the the the jazz band, you know, Neil would invite all these great players to come in, you know, Jerry Mulligan, Lou Soloff, you know, so like the list was endless of p of people that came in to play with the band. And um you know, so it it it was cool. I mean I I just uh a lot of my

of my upbringing and a lot of what I was doing was was was based around big bands, you know. It was it was really kinda coming out of that of that thing, you know. And it was funny. I was just you know, I was just doing this this jazz cruise.

in February, right, this year, twenty twenty five. And um and Eric Merenthal got me on the on the show to play with with Lee Ritnower and and Bob James and and um Um and Marcus Marcus Miller. Great on song. And one of the other things I got to do was play. play with the David Sanborn tree because David was supposed to be in the band and of course we know he um unfortunately passed as well last year. So um

So so I'm I'm playing and and you know, there's uh all of us were it was such a great hang. Everybody was hanging and just, you know, really nice people to be And and I remember Candy Dolpher, great saxophone player. Um, she was she was backstage watching. the when I was playing. And she came up to me afterwards and she said, you know, she said It's amazing, she says that it's so cool. It says a lot of your fills sound like it big band.

And it it kind of took me back. I was like, really? Then I I started to think about it and I was like, you know, she's she's kinda right. Um you know, even like in a a f a funkier fusion setting or you know,'cause we were playing run for cover, we were playing

Name the the other tunes, but um and run for cover I actually put up I actually posted online. Um But sh she was correct in yeah, I I realize she was correct in the sense that um it's a it's a that's where a lot of my musical choices come from, you know, coming out of the this the big band aspect of of setting up a band, keeping the fills going.

So you're going to college in Connecticut and then going to the New York go go where you were living in Connecticut or New York at that time? Yeah. So I moved um to to Bridgeport on campus. Uh And that's when that whole I I I didn't stay long. I I was only full time, I think, for one semester or two. Um, because I started touring. I actually started going out of the country with a trombone player, um friend named Sonny Costanzo.

from Connecticut and this guy he was a teacher at another college up there and and and I would play with his band. I guess I started getting called to do his band. And then he called me and he says, Hey, I'm going to Czechoslovakia, I'm going to Prague to play with my friend. Lonzo is a character man. He's a he's a piece of work. Um fantastic trumpet player. Love the guy. Anyway, we I was twenty.

And you know, So so Sonny and his partner and and me and w we we went over there and you know, we're talking Prague is, you know, com is still communist country, so it was serious red tape to get into the country and We stayed with the family, with with Lots of family in pride.

And and then we played at this club and I was playing man, the drone set was like this old Ludwig, you know, beaten up you know, no head on the front bass drum and like it was, you know, long before the days of, you know, well, let's see, can I get this drum kit and these cymbals Man, it was does I think I brought my cymbals, but um

Um, but it was rough. It was really rough. But man, it was like w it was like we were the Beatles, you know. It's like, Oh, there's this there's this there's these two American jazz musicians, you know, and T V cameras were there. It was like it was like a scene in this jazz club, right? When we were setting up and rehearsing.

and lines around the block, man. It was like serious, you know, it was r really, really, um, profoundly impressive. Um, I I was just blown out'cause in the States, you know, it's like, okay. We have shows, you know, we have rock shows and fans and people go nuts for stuff, but a five piece jazz group and it's like, you know, i i it kinda took me back, you know, it was like, man.

This is this is something. And I you know I came to learn it was, you know, back then in that country and and it was so oppressive that that anything having to do with the arts or music, um, was held at the highest esteem of of that's the place everybody, you know, could escape. They could go and and really enjoy something. And I mean uh even today, I mean, that's what music's about, right? Um, the enjoyment, the n the d positive distraction, if you will. Uh

So uh but I learned it at a very early age. It was so profound that I I came back to New York or Connecticut and I was I was it it really hit me, you know, just that the people At the time I was like, may people in this country just take so much for granted they have no idea how good they have it, you know. Because these people have nothing. It's tough. No f no food on the shells. We were drinking you had the choice of either drinking Fanta.

Or beer for breakfast. I mean try to coffee? Forget it. I'd say one guy gave me a a check coffee and I wasn't really even drinking coffee yet and he gave me this thing and and a plastic cup we were rehearsing. I don't even know how we made it, but it was homemade, right?

And it gives me the cup and he goes, You want sugar? I said, uh I guess, I don't know. So he put sugar in, he put a wood wood little stick in there. He was stirring it, and he the stick was like this. The stick stood up in the coffee. And I'm like, okay. And I took a slip of blood. It was like yeah, it was like black quicksand. It was just terrible. Awful. Thank God, it was horrible. Um But that's what I mean. It was kind of like uh

you know, the the the people there took uh they they made the most out of very small things that were, you know, living life, you know. So it was a it was a very Absolutely. And it showed you what it's like to play a a club with a line waiting to see you. And to get that feeling with uh playing in front of an audience. I was used to um playing in front of audiences. Um, you know,'cause we would do we would do jazz band concerts.

I'm trying to think of what might have happened before then. And, you know, certainly local shows. Um I'd I hadn't Gotten into the scene yet, but

But we were doing shows with with uh the band that that kind of formed out of college and local guys called which which has which has gotten some notoriety and and and um understanding of what it was called Night Sprite. And Night Sprite spelled like Night Sprite the song from Chick. Um and uh And so, you know, we we we were playing a lot of great shows and and so I was used to playing in front of audiences. I just wasn't used to the the fan

about it. You know what I mean? It was just the TV cameras and the news and the interviews and you know that it was deep. It was like it was it was it was really cool. But at the same time it was like, I don't understand why is you know, but then as I spent time in the country and we went back the next consecutive couple of years, I understood

that, you know, it was just a like I said, there uh very oppressive situation where there just wasn't a lot of freedom. So the the music, you know, gave gave the ability to be free to enjoy and thankfully that what it happened. So then Night Sprite becomes a thing at what point? Night Sprite became a thing kind of mm very quickly, uh

in the in college. I can't remember the the first, you know, time, but but it was kind of a bunch of Westchester guys.'Cause Paul Adamy, the bass player that was in the band, um, the Bridgeport Big band, right, in the school. I don't even know if Paul was going to school. I think he just played in a band, but but he was there so we met there

And then Andy Block was a guitar player and Brendan O'Keefe at the time was a keyboard player. So and Fred Vigdor, who was playing Saks in the big band at Bridgeport. Um So he I I just don't remember how it all happened but but I I think Paul kinda asked me and Fred to to join the band or whatever. Anyway, we all got together and became that unit, you know, nice bread.

And then fast forward a little bit, um, you know, the band stayed together. Um we got a couple of different singers writing original material. m my um we replaced uh Brendan with Jay Oliver. He moved up in eighty one. Um and And Joe Bonadia was was playing percussion. He was another great drummer and percussionist.

And um and we were doing a lot of a lot of stuff and we were getting gigs. We were starting to get good gigs in New York City because we had always played the the clubs in Westchester County, Connecticut. But we got we started to work at uh we got one gig at Seventh Avenue South, which is where I first saw Steve Gadd. So that in itself was was a very special moment. It was the Brecker Brothers-owned club down on Bleecker Street on September.

Um and you know, we're talking nineteen eighty one and I remember Jay had this silver dodge van. Packed with drum all the gear. All the gear. Drums. Guitar. a point board. We did everything ourselves. Everything. This ob this obsession with sound started a long time ago, right? So Um yeah, so uh and I remember it was basically Jay and I carrying all that stuff upstairs, you know, up and it was upstairs to get to the club.

And uh anyway, we we set up, we we got it, we had a an amazing gig. Andy Block was studying with Steve Kahn at the time. And Steve Kahn and Peter, they were either living in the same building or they were hanging out, friends, you know, and and uh I had been trying to contact and write to Peter, you know, before that anyway. So th it turns out they come to the gig. um Steve Kahn and Peter Erskine. And it was because of that gig that Peter recommended me for basically the rest of my career.

That's amazing. He yeah, he he thought so much of what I did to to handle the music. And there's there's actually a DVD that we produce called Flies on the Studio Wall. that was the making of the convergence record that Jay Oliver did back in twenty fourteen. And um and in that video there's a there's a snippet of Peter um um my s my school partner and video producer of that project, Steve Orkin, he got Peter to do an interview and Peter talked about that night and I had never heard him talk

And it it's c it's it's quite cool. I mean you can this D V D is available on my website, um if you wanna check it out. But Peter um you know, said yeah, he goes he goes, I I just couldn't believe the way this kid was handling the music, blah, blah, blah, blah, and I don't know if I could've handled it that way and it was just, you know, it was just great, you know, so

Anyway, he, like I said, he thought enough of it to recommend me for French Toast. And French Toast was a band led by a French horn player. In that band was Anthony Jackson, Michelle Camillo, Sammy Figueroa, Lou Solov, right? Crazy ensemble. Wow. Yeah. So that it was the precursor to all of all of Michelle Camillos gigs and and bands and work, right? So um so I got called. I got called to do the gig. Um

And I was like, okay. Um and and the guy said, look, we're doing a gig uh at this club in New York, blah, blah, blah. And Steve Ferroni's playing. So why don't you come down and you know, you can check it out. Well, I of course brought a recorder. I recorded the the gig. Steve Ferroni was playing in French Toast. Yes, Steve Ferroni because Peter Peter and f and Steve were sharing the chair. Wow. So you must have been honored to get that call. Well, I mean it was just like

Yeah. I mean of course it was like but I hadn't gotten a gig yet. I had just gotten the call to right check it out and they were gonna check me out, you know, in a rehearsal. So it was kinda still, you know, in in the testing of the waters. So to speak. So I record it, I get the charts and we have the first rehearsal and I

I I remember I I mean I did pretty good with the rehearsal. I had studied the music, I had studied the tape, I I knew what it was. But I had a lot of questions, you know, and I was I was I was asking Michelle. I remember sitting down. and just asking him about the parts, you know, the percussion parts of the different grooves and like what, you know, like'cause he'cause he was writing a lot of the music at the time and And he was nice enough to sit down with me and tell me um you know, like

You know, for this certain groove, you know, these this is an island groove, you know, merengue, whatever it was, this is the parts, this is the what this guy plays, the you know, for the salsa stuff, here's the Kung the Kunga part, the whatever. He was writing all these parts. And I just took it all home and I figured out how to kind of put it on the drum set and and so that was like Michelle was really my first teacher actually, you could say, about authentic Latin, you know, feels and groups.

Um and so so I did a lot of shedding and when when I got the gig from the rehearsal. They said, Yeah, cool. But it was on a, you know, rehearsal kit, rehearsal studio, so, you know, we're not going for it, right? So we get to the gig, Micha uh McKell's ninety six in Columbus, right? And um And Anthony Anthony shows up with a Serwin Vega PA speaker for a base cabinet. He was as nuts as I was about this stuff.

I showed up with a rack about this big. It had noise gates and a reverb unit in it. And then I had a board on top of that. And I had my own mics. No no overheads, just just drum mics, you know. And then I and then I had a power amp and I showed up with this big 18 inch speaker. that I put on the floor next to Anthony.

And the first gig, Anthony was screaming. He he turned around and he said Oh my God, I've never heard anything like that. What is that? You know, and it was just My m my dream of, you know, wanting to do what at that moment I was doing, which was bringing live drum sound to a club. that sounded as as good as everything else.'Cause I was so tired of going to the clubs and hearing these great drummers with everybody, you know, stereo guitar speakers.

big bass cabinets, everybody's mic you know, and the drums just sounding like cardboard. I don't care what drums they were, you know,'cause they weren't mic'ed and And there was just uh You know, it it was like trying to do old school where the drums were concerned, you know, sonic versus all this, you know, production going on with the rest of the instruments. It just didn't make any sense to me at all. And I said, Well, obviously this is a pain in the ass. Nobody wants to carry all this

I decided to to to go through it. Like I said, I was trained from a very early age. Jay and I and the rest of us, we just we just did the work that was necessary. We did the physical input, you know, and dragged the shit up and down the stairs.

And that that is crazy. The drive, the determination, how much you care. on making sure the sound is as great as possible and the work that you're willing to put in to execute that. I mean look, what uh what else you gonna do? What it's like y you know, my mother that's one thing, you know, my I I think I my mother probably said it to me first, you know, you know if you if you're gonna do anything, do it right. I mean do it do it if it's worth doing, do it right, you know.

The work ethic, yes, I it's it's always been it still is. I mean I'm just, you know, I'm I'm I'm sure I could be classified as a workaholic'cause it's I just enjoy it. I don't look at it like work. It's what I do and I love what I do. Um so uh you know but but that moment I knew what it was gonna be. I know. You know,'cause I was demoing this with other groups. French Toast and that whole thing was first. That was the first big, you know, transition from club dates, wedding bands, you know.

into the scene with the guys, you know. So

So I'm indebted to, you know, Peter for ever for the rest of my life, you know,'cause he really gave me the chance. I mean, he just he like a you know Um you know, but the point the point is is that, you know, I tell the students, you know, it's like it's like you never know who's gonna be in the audience, you know. So

Every time you play you gotta play like it's like it's you're doing an audition'cause you don't know. You know. Yes, you wanna have good time. But I was man, I was always serious about it. I was just like I do as far as I'm concerned, we're making a record. You know, this is it. I gotta I gotta be on top of my game. I'm you know, I can't be

I can't be, you know, bringing any personal things to the stage, you know, if there's issues my life, whatever, I'm not gonna be drinking drug, none of that stuff. I gotta be clear of mind, you know. And It's kind of, you know, like I said, it's kind of that army sports mentality. It's like you know, we're we are athletes playing this instrument, and you have to train as such if you really want to be on top.

Um and I'm not I'm not saying you have to play that way. I'm just saying that when you're in somewhat decent physical condition. and you're taking care of yourself and um, you know, with diet and movement and exercise, it's like this becomes a lot easier. Everything becomes a lot easier, you know, and it's just a c it's a clearer focus, you know. But man, where that where that where that whole sound thing was concerned, it was it was a moment and it was

Uh it was just great. It was just great. So I to this day, I mean, I still you know, I mean, back then it was carrying a car full of stuff. You know, now I have my little QSC mixer and touch mix. Yeah. You know. It's consolidated. One or two powered speakers, done. You know, everything is in the little mixers to super easy, you know. But I still do it. I still do it. Every gig I'm I just you know. I want I want my drums to to have a a fidelity fidelity

sonically pleasing quality on the stage. Not loud. It's not about the volume. It's about the the the fidelity, you know, it's about the beef of the the quality. And um and I I became known for that right away. You know, I was like, this crazy kid's carrying this sh around. It's like it sounds like a record. You know, and of course I I had the Yamaha, you know, the recorded custom kit and, you know, it's like I d I had the either pinstripes or or amperers on there and

had everything mic'd and gated and it's like it it sounded like God. It was just like crazy.

How could you afford that back then? Were you just putting all of everything you had into into your gear? Well, it wasn't d you know, I mean, it it wasn't that much stuff. I mean, um, you know Fifty-sevens were cheap. I probably borrowed something. Um and like I said, I think I I think I may have had the the four um one, two, three, four mics, basically. No, five mics. Kick. Snare, left Tom,'cause I was doing a left Tom back then already. Um left Tom

one between the two racks and a and a floor time. And yeah, so yeah, so one, two, three, four, five, five mics. You know. I was making enough money, like I told you, I I I was working, you know, it was I was working, I was teaching, I was doing whatever I could do to make make money and and yes, I would I would save the money to to put it in into the gear.

You have the chops, you have the sound, you have the musicality. You're you're like this full package at a young age. So French Toast sees you, Anthony Jackson sees you, he's screaming. You're screaming. How excited. I how excited you're making him, how alive you're making him in that musical moment. That's like that's the best gift you can give a fellow musician or an audience. It's amazing how how how in

you went and how dedicated and determined you are to to presenting yourself in the best way possible. Aaron Powell Well look, I you know d for me, the the reason I play music is for the emotional aspect. you know, um because it it it turned me on, made me feel so good to listen to music that I liked, um that struck a chord, that that just was was a positive

thing in in my world, you know. And I wanted to understand how to to do that for myself to be able to to play at a level that I actually liked what I heard. To be able to w play with other people to make them feel good and then to make the listener hopefully dig it, you know, appreciate.

And um and it's still the it's still the the method of operation today. It's the whole purpose, you know, uh I mean I'm still, you know, it it's I mean nowadays, you know, at this age, at this part time in the career, after, you know, this is like I've I've been playing something like, I don't know, fifty fifty-seven years or something, you know, I've been playing this instrument. You know, and I still practice. I mean I still sit down to make sure, if anything else, that I can maintain

what I have going. I have to I have to maintain the familiarity of being able to play, of being able to have these things in the hand and so they don't feel m you know, strange.

It's a it's a it's a muscle muscle training when you're developing and then it's muscle memory and then it's also just maintenance, you know. Um And then certain you know, certain aspects of age are of course gonna play a role, but the m of of you know, things going on a downward slope and that's just life, it's the way it works, but Um but I'm not prepared to to to let that go anytime soon, you know. I'm I'm just in a position where I I just wanna keep everything

going on a level that I'm happy with and um and that means I gotta I gotta touch this instrument pretty much every day still. Um You know, and um you know, a lot of my lot of my work now is is trying to trying to engineer stuff and I do a lot of my own stuff but but I'm working for other people, you know, doing editing and and mixing and

And um and I'm I'm in there sometimes eight hours and it's like, Oh, wait, I'm a drummer. I gotta go. I gotta go practice for a minute, you know, I gotta not and not practice. Here's the thing. Greg Bissonet, my my buddy Greg. We did a clinic together in Mexico uh earlier this year. And um and he he actually texted me later and he said, dude, he said, I need you to know that you made a big difference in my in my life at the Mexico thing. I'm like

Okay. He said, We were we set up in this little room, right? And and and the organizer um w a and him were gonna go to a store to get some fruit, water, whatever, you know. And Greg was like, dude, you wanna come? And I was like, nah, I'm just gonna stay back and and play a little bit, you know. And Greg said, You didn't use the word practice. You used the word play.

And he said that was very fro profound for me because because he said, you know, instead of thinking of like having to go to r to the room to practice, you know, I'm gonna go to the room and just plug And I realize that that's what I do all the time, is that I will go to play the drums. And at the same time, of course, I fall into things that I find I need to practice or um you know, or I'll I'll I'll I'll try to do some

independence thing, you know, that that I haven't tried to do before and just just for fun, you know, to put it together. And And and it hit me, it's and now so now since Greg told me that, I've been telling everybody at clinics and my students too the same thing. It's like, you gotta play the the instrument. Just just play and don't worry about the you know the the the You know, practice things. Of course you gotta do that too, but

It's the playing of the instrument that we want to do. It's the making of the music, right? The developing the flow. And you don't you don't really practice that. You you get that from playing, you know. Um and more that you can do it with musicians, of course, is great. But

But it's like you have to you you gotta own your own zone first, you know, and that means you gotta play a lot. You have to play the instrument and when you run across things that maybe aren't even or, you know, something's, you know, not working, it's like um the way you quite want it to, then you then you choose, you know, the theme of the playing, which becomes the practice, you know. So the theme is, okay, um, hand and foot combination things, right?

Um, you know, for some reason my my bass drum and my snare drum and my hi hat when I'm playing this little groove or are not even, you know. So so you sit down and you actually, you know, if I may, for one second, you you make that the theme of just evenness with subdivisions, right?

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So you're playing and you're you're you're you're using the theme of of evenness, right? between the subdivisions in a linear matter, but but but you're but you're still playing, you know. You speed that up and you put it a around the drums, you know, so it becomes a becomes a theme. uh within playing, which in turn you're practicing at the same time. But it's kind of a mindset

You know, it's not to say that you don't have to practice, because a lot of this has to do, of course, with the level that you're at and your journey, you know, and where you are. It's like, you know, after fifty-seven years, I don't need to sit down and practice, you know, paradigm. Um although I still do. I'll I'll play my my singles, my doubles, my paradiddles just to keep the chops working.

Um but it's it's the playing. It's the playing of the music, it's the playing of, you know, the grooves, the feels, you know, and of course with with players is the you know, says the reason I do it, is to make music, to have a relationship with different people in the sense of of of making music with with them, you know.

Um and it's it's it's fascinating, you know, and it's it's something that in my kind of music that we still tour and we still play with, that we still play out on tour, which is mostly coming from a jazz fusion, whatever you want to call it. sometimes vocal, sometimes instrumental, whatever it might be.

there's there's a relationship on stage and we're still using amplifiers. There's no fiber glass or you know, plexiglass around the drum set. It's like we're all listening to each other. We're all playing. We have to be responsible for the dynamics. We have to be responsible to play and blend on stage before the sound guy returns on a mic, you know. And and I think that's lost these days, you know.

Um I I just think that, you know, everybody stuffs in the in ears and there's no monitors on and there's n nothing on stage. Everybody's playing like they're in the studio. Yeah. Okay, I get it. It's cleaner sound. Absolutely. Eh. I don't know. I don't know. You know, for me

It's somehow not as real. I don't know. Yeah. Mm I'm not sure. But but anyway, uh there you know, there's there's of course positives to that. But but I just think that, you know, the the whole essence of like really playing with somebody and blending with somebody is

You know, those days are a little different now. It's a little little bit of a different um process. I love phrasing it as playing because uh or and also touching your drums'cause yeah, I for the first time ever fell off my my drum regiment, uh, when COVID hit because I always wanted to play with people and then when COVID came there's no people around and then I stopped playing and that was my first time ever stopping playing drums e every single day and get getting it going again

what was really difficult. And I think just simply thinking I just need to touch these drums every day and making it so I touch it and then I realize how much fun I have and doing it and then the and then the playing comes in and that's helped me a lot to get to get back

Yeah. And I love that you're still practicing and still and still passionate about it and still keeping your your skills. I mean, still growing your skills and maintenance and everything that you're putting in the work still. What else am I gonna do? You know, it's like this is it's it's not a job. You know, this is this is my life. I mean this is this is what I whether I was put here to do it or not, I don't have a

much to say about that but but I just know that it's it's what makes me happy. It's what it's what it's what facilitates survival for family, you know what I mean? It's like a it's uh it's a necessity. At the same time that it's it's just it's it's a necessity in the sense of of the soul, the spiritual aspect.

of God man, if I don't do this, it's just like something ain't working. Something's not right, you know, and I have to I have to be I have to be in the music, whether it's whether it's playing, recordings, you know, touring or mixing, you know, putting together video editing now. I'm I'm starting to try to get into better to be better at the at the production side, you know, and and um

it that's as much of a joy for me as as playing sometimes'cause it's the it's the it's the presentation of of the art, you know. And um And and and so that it's it's all you know, that it it creates it creates a positive um

uh lifestyle. It cre it creates a positive living, you know. Um and it you know, don't get me wrong, I mean it's it's easy to go dark, man. Any any of us can go down that that s that slippery slope of of of being bummed out, depressed, not not happy and it's like y you're you're in control of all of that. So it it it it's it's hard and certainly

certainly g not gonna sit here and say it never happens to me'cause'cause I just recognize when it's starting to happen to me a little bit sooner and better now than I used to. But Um but yeah, man, motivation, self motivation, you know, listening, that's what I mean. It's like you get you get bummed out about something, go listen to what turned you on in the first place. Go back. Go Dive into something. Dive into something new. Dive into that's what I mean, YouTube, man, it's just a plethora of

musical experience, past w past and present, you know, and it's it's uh it's a great thing. And also, you know, of course there's survival, we have to make money, so that that's another discussion. I mean Um, you know, it's I always tell students too, it's like, look, you can't beat yourself up that, you know, um that if you're not if you're not able to to really survive at a comfortable level playing music, then

That you have to think outside the box. You have to expand. Do something else. Maybe within the business. Learn how learn how to film at it. Learn how to how to do something that you're touching touching the business. I mean, if I had to just survive being a drummer, it wouldn't be as comfortable. A absolutely not. It's like there's there's different sources of income within the industry. I don't I don't I I haven't had

the wherewithal or the time to go outside it like with, you know, real estate investment or any of that type of things. I know a lot of a lot of friends that do that in You know, and that is a survival way. you know, a mechanism, a a a a way of doing things to to play the game as it is that is survival because we have to do it in a financial world, right?

Oh yeah. There's a lot of a lot of different ways to look at that. But but for me it's it's a I d I do it in a way of, you know, uh creating as much passive income as possible and and at the same time working hard. Work hard. It's like I just work, you know, and I I'm I'm thinking about how to work and to and to make. Um.

It has to be part of the process. It can't be the it can't be the determining factor that that um that puts you here. But but at the same time, you gotta think about it, you know, and I I always have. I've always thought about trying to be trying to be smart. It's uh Um I just know that if I take care of this and if I take care of this and this

The rest of it is it comes a little bit easier. The variables that you can control. But the more the more that you're in a place that you control, you know, what you can control um I found anyway, it's whether you want to say the universe gives it back or whatever whatever whatever you want to say, um, you know, it it creates a positive aura, it creates a positive flow that So you said drumming makes you happy and your drumming makes all of

And so we thank you for it. And on top of that, of course, it made Anthony Jackson happy. So so now Anthony Jackson is loving your drum and he starts recommending you for Whatever whenever he's getting asked for a drummer. And that leads to you getting the Simon and Garfunkel reunion. That's correct.

And so at that point you're twenty three years old? That is also correct. So yeah, so everything that we've already had talked about is all in your early twenties. You're already there. Twenty three now you start you you do the Simon and Gar Funkal Reunion Tour. So now you're playing in front of huge crowds. That's a whole other

world, right? And that must have opened up the floodgates for you. It was really the French toast gig um in in playing with those guys and in in particular, um, Anthony. Um He just started to recommend me for everything. Um, and I'm and I'm sure some of the other guys had something to do with it too that were in the studios'cause I started to get called to do studio work. Um, I started to get called to play with different people live.

And I think, no, I know, remember, that I was playing with Ronnie Kuber at the same club, Seventh Avenue South, right? And who walks in in the middle of the gig but Paul Simon? Comes up the stairs, sits down fifteen feet from me, and

I don't think I looked at it. I don't think I could. I was just like, oh shit. So w I'm Tom Barney was playing bass. I remember the gig. It was it was it was fun. It was a great gig at Seventh Avenue and I had my shit, my my And um anyway, he stayed for two, three tunes maybe, got up and left. So it's like okay. I didn't know what to think. I didn't know you know, I g I was certain did he hate it? What, you know, I didn't know. So so the next day I get a call and he said

Paul really liked it. He wants you to do the tour. How much money you want? No, it was a I was like, Whoa, what? I was you know, I had no idea and I said Uh you know, actually I had talked to Anthony before that. I called him that morning and I said I said, Look, man, I don't know what's gonna happen, but you know, Paul came down.

How much money should I ask for? He goes, Well, I know Steve gets this and I get this and you should just ask for this, you know. Tell him you gotta, you know, give up a bunch of studio dates, you know, so So I threw out a number, you know, that you know, and they no hesitation. Okay, no problem. And I was like

I should have asked for a little more. Should've gone a little higher. A little higher. What was market rate back then for a gig like that? I mean, I I don't know if I'm really at liberty to say. Let's just say I was I was I was making uh forty five hundred a week, four thousand five hundred, which is not you know, it's not huge money by any means. But in nineteen eighty three for a twenty three year old it was

You know, I I was making thirteen thousand a year. Yeah. You know, and the tour and the tour was eight weeks long, so you know, do the math. I mean I I basically was able to buy my first house with that tour. Yeah. Um and um because what's crazy is like forty five hundred a week like is unfortunately still people that are headlining arenas are paying their bans. Yes. Oh I know. Oh I know. Which is which is incredible. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, it's uh yeah, I know. It's uh there's a you know, yeah, I'm not gonna get into it'cause it's it's it's it's difficult trying to come up with your price, trying to come up with what you're worth. Yeah. Um You know, but but the downside, you know, the the other side of that is, you know, and I tell my students uh this all the time too, because on any level. If you dumb down the industry by selling yourself cheap, you're screwing everybody, you know.

Um, and I tell my students it's like, look, this is what I I charge this for, you know, to do a a recording. If they want video, it's this, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And and and my students like, well, tell them to call me if you don't want to do it, because I'll do it for a hundred bucks. And I'm like, no, you won't. I said, No, you won't. You know. I'm not if you're gonna say that, I will not recommend you. So you have to charge

You've got to charge what you're worth. Man, I mean it's uh otherwise we're you know, we're all screwed. Because if they can get and I mean we're kinda you know It's uh you know, with AI sampling with their all that stuff. Thankfully people still want, you know, the the real feel of an instrument sometimes and of course the name value helps. So if you get to a position where Having your name on something on YouTube will pull more people in than you're going to get called, but

Um, and that's you know, that's just marketing. Uh that's the way it works. I mean, even even for me, if I try to take a band on the road.

I can't just think that my name is enough to like convince promoters to sell the show. I gotta have a couple of other names in there that you know, that want it. So So it's always a always a thing of like make sure you get a get a name or two on your band or on your record or on something that is gonna help sell some units, you know, because it's just it's the way it's always And then hopefully you become one of those names that eventually sell you, you know, help.

Um but yeah, it's the whole it's the whole, you know cutting the value of of of what we do that And I know sometimes it's a desperate situation, it's like you want the gig, you want you want to play, you want to record.

And you make that mistake in saying, you know, I'll either I'll do it for nothing or I'll do it cheap, you know. And don't get me wrong, I've done favors. I still do favors. I do I do some favors for people I know, for people that maybe we exchange something. Um in the sense of, you know, I'll do the performance, let me post it on my YouTube channel so that I maybe get the monetization, you know, on the on the videos.

Um, you know, there's different there's different leverage leverage points now. Um but you know, but but you gotta have a you gotta have a bottom line, you know. And for me it comes down to For me it comes down to how much do I like the music? How much do I wanna be involved with this'cause I like it, you know, in and in those situations I've I've I've done I've done favors and I've gone below But you can't just you can't just offer your own.

Yeah. It's just it you're gonna shoot yourself in the foot amongst and uh along with everybody else.

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JamCard.com. J A M M C A R D dot com. Let's go. So now at this point in your career, you're twenty-three, you're on the Salmon and Garfunkal Reunion Tour, it's big, you're making your first

good money. Um and so the opportunities start coming in more. Is that when the session era kinda started for you in New York City or did Chick Korea come? The session stuff started right after French Toast. I mean I like I said I started getting called for all this stuff. So and then that tour happened with Paul Simon and Sim Simon Garden. Um and then after that tour, yes, I was kind of like this, you know, this new kid in town that, you know

that played played good and clean kids, showed up on time, you know, did you know, could read, you know, could understand styles, you know, so even though I was coming from more of a jazz place. But but I actually started to work with guys like Niall Rogers. I mean You know, I started to get called for a lot of different stuff and I mean man, with with Nile, I worked on Diana Ross, Pebo Bryson.

Um George Benson, um Madonna. Madonna, um which was just a Tom Rototom overdub by the way. Tony Thompson's the drummer on most of that record on Like a Virgin. What is the Rototom Overdub? What song is that? I don't know the name of the song. It's a twelve it's a six eight, twelve eight thing where it's got Rototom, so you can go check it out. The big one with Nile though was Robert Plant. I was actually on I was actually on the honey drippers. With uh with Jeff B.

So cool. That was cool. What was that session like? Well, it was a Sunday morning at Atlantic Records. It was a last minute call. Um, and Nile had been working for me and I you know, I was available so I could make it. Um And I came in and um Yeah, like I said, Jeff Beck and I mean Robert Plant was there, man. He was singing in the air hole, you know, the air lock between the studio door and the in the control room.

And uh you know, the hair was like through the windows freaking out. It was so funny. It was so great. Um and we we recorded I think it was just two or three songs that were recorded and and and Rockin' at Midnight got on the record. So they use the shuffle. Um And um it was just it was just awesome. I mean, Ahmed Aragon, all the you know, Atlantic, you know, big wigs were there. Amit was there? Ahmed came in storytelling and yes. I mean that was that was nineteen eighty.

And then uh yeah, so yeah, so I was doing a bunch of different bunch of different things. I mean, I was doing a lot of records for Uh you know, just kind of like almost direct to two track jazz records.

GRP records, you know. Um different just different things. And um and one of the things that I also uh put together with Tom Kennedy was was uh with Bill Connors. And we did this record called Step It. Yeah. Um and and we played at Seventh Avenue South too, um, with that band. And we also played at the bottom line in New York. And at the bottom line gig is where Chick had found out about me through Michael Brecker and Tony Maria. Um and uh and he came to see me at that gig.

And that was nineteen eighty four. And that's when he asked me to join him and John and do this electric band thing. Whoa. That's when it happened. That's how it happened. So that's what I mean. It's like you never know who you're playing for or what's gonna happen.

So you you just gotta be on your game all the time. I gotta double click into the into the into that chick story. So tell me more about that night. You know, the backstory is is that you know Chick was looking for young guys for this new band. Um and he found John already in California. Um I think his wife Gail had heard John play with with some

And um and so he's in New York with a night off and he's calling everybody. Brecker everybody's calling. And Michael, you know, he mentioned my name, that I was kinda this you new young kid that was really good. Excuse me. So so later I guess he's hanging with Tanya Maria. And Tony Maria says, hey, you gotta listen to this this this new piano player, Michelle Camillo, you know, puts the record on. And Chick's listening and he's like, yeah, piano player is great, but who's a drummer?

Second time my name comes in. Gail just happens to be looking through the Village Voice newspaper, New York. And well, let's see who's playing in the clubs. Bottom line. Tom Kennedy, Bill Connors, Dave Weckle. It's just star alignment stuff, you know? And then I see Chick walk in in the middle of the gate. Okay. You know, um you did not know he was coming.

No. No. You see Chicorilla walk in. I saw him walk in. Yeah, I saw him walk in and at the time I was trying to m minimize minimize my my carrying, you know, hauling equipment. So I used to play my floor time. Uh on the same stand as a ridesome. And whatever happened, for whatever reason, I I if the stick bag was hanging on it and the leg maybe wasn't in the right place, but as soon as I saw a chick walk in, I must have hit something and the whole thing just fell over. I was like

You know? I was like, oh man, really? Uh that was like somebody helped me put it back up. Okay, good point. Yeah, it was No, not and I don't I I may have had somebody there helping me, but but um um yeah it was it was a it was an embarrassing moment. But you know So Chick watches you play. Yeah, watching me play, come backstage.

Comes backstage and, you know, of course, there there's a little bit of uh love loss between between Chick and Bill because Bill was the original guitar player in Return of Forever. Mm-hmm. And um I don't know what went down with that whole story. But but um as soon as Bill saw Chick come in and um He says, Oh no. To himself he told me later that you know it's gonna steal my drummer. Right. And and I think Michelle had a little bit of that going on too.

Um uh yeah, he just said he goes, man, he goes, fantastic, really loved it. How what do you think about you know, I found this bass player, I'm s gonna start this new band. What do you think about coming out to LA for for rehearsal? I said, hmm, let me think about that for a minute. Um, yeah, when? I'm on the plane tomorrow. Like you know, like I'll go home with you right now. You kidding me? You kidding you? Yeah. So that was it. I mean and

And I think it was the s you know, so that would have been the fall of eighty four and then so the I think uh the spring spring of eighty five is when we got together, did the first rehearsal, we did that gig at Olarios, which is is out there as a recorder. And um and that was it. That wa that that became the electric band, which was a trio for the first m first year, basically. With just you and Chicken John, Patatucci. That's right.

That's right. Okay, so how did the electric band become that thing? Was it already when you did that trio, was it called the electric band? And was that the first title of the electric band? Okay. So that was when Chick was like, I want to make a new band. And John Patatucci and I want it to be the electric band, like not just called Chick Hariz.

Yeah, it was uh it was it was a full on full on plan to be called the electric ban and and I remember at the very beginning I was talking to Chick about'cause You know you know, Chick is a he was always a um you know, a trio guy. He liked the trio, but he wanted to do it electric, you know, and I think he had

ideas of adding instrumentation later. But um but at at that moment we were just you know, he was into all these new synths and and I said, Chick, you know, it it's uh this is an electric band thing I said And I may have said it before the rehearsals'cause I think I had everything at you know, for these first gigs, the the refrigerators as they were, with uh at least some version of it, with um with at least triggering Simmons.

You know, and and maybe an octopad or something that I was triggering, a Lynn drum machine. You were already triggering it. That's crazy. Well yeah, that yeah, it it came out. I mean, actually when I was doing the Simon and Garfuckle gig, uh which I I just dug up a um a video actually that that I got digitized. I'm I don't know if I have permission to l to release any of it but but please do I've I I've got I've got the Dodger Stadium show from that from that concert when I was twenty three.

And it's it's hysterical. But but I was trigger I had my Simmons, you know, off to the back here, off to the side. They were up going up like this and I was playing the Simmons, you know. So shortly after that's where I started to get into the trigger. of the Simmons stuff. And that turned into Akai samplers and, you know, a bunch of different triggering things.

And um and so he you know, he was cool with it and and I mean man, it eventually morphed into these, you know, double refrigerators behind me with uh you know, a basically a PA.

you know, two subs and and two full range Eastern Acoustic speakers I remember. How much fun was that to play? Oh, it was it was it was great. It was uh I mean At the time I wasn't using phones. I was still acoustic and I had to use little earphones. I remember using Walkman phones. Actually at first I had these other two little speakers on top of the racks to hear the sequences that we played for Sidewalk Rumble.

Yeah. That's crazy. You gotta really be paying attention. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you know. So yeah, that was the beginning of it. And um and then uh you know, we did uh we did the first record. Um, you know, later that year, I think. And um, you know, I mean obviously it was Chick's writing that got everything.

started and and um you know just his his beautiful way of allowing us to be free to create. I mean That was always the one thing that he always said was, you know, you have to be free to create, you know, and he was just so good at

he was so good at allowing finding the musicians and allowing them to be free to create within his world. Yes, sometimes he had directions, sometimes he had, you know, um, ways that he wanted things done and And s he certainly knew what he wanted and you know, but but his prolific writing, his just his ability to you know, to m write the music for the band at hand and then, you know, on that first record we had Carlos Rios Um the guitar and um and Carlos didn't want to

with us. Uh,'cause he was he was so busy in the studios and doing a lot of pop stuff at the time. Uh and that's when we got Scott Hinter. So Scott Henderson was the first guitar player on the on the in the band and there's there's a lot of lot of footage out there. Um and then um and then then that that turned into um

a a different guitar player that Chick wanted to to go somewhere else with it. And um we had Jamie Glazer for a minute and then um and then Frank. Frank Obali of course became, you know, the the new electric band guitar player and shortly thereafter Chick wanted to he started hearing uh saxophone. He wanted another melodic voice and he wanted it to be sax. So that's when Eric Marianthal came into the picture.

And um and that was it, man. I mean, it was just full on, full on, full on touring dis. I was still living in New York at the time. um, you know, in the first three to four years of the band. And between that and doing my records, which I was doing started doing in the late eighties with Jay Jay was in LA at the time. So I was never home. I was on the road constantly. I was I was either on the road with Chick or I was in LA doing a record with Chick or doing my own record.

And I said, No, I gotta move, you know, at least give me a couple more months on at home, you know, so

So that's when the move happened, ninety, nineteen ninety maybe, to LA. It just, you know, it was it was it was full on and I remember one of the things, you know, because we were with GRP, right? Cruise and Rosen Productions. And we were under contract, Chick was under contract to to deliver records on a s on a schedule.

And we've been touring like crazy, you know. And there was a record coming due and Chick was like, I don't have it and we're like, Well, you gotta deliver something, so go go into the studio and record a a a jazz trio record, do something. So Chick was gonna go in with Roy and Miroslav again. And and then he thought he to ask John and I. He says, Hey, you wanna you wanna go in and just record a a trio record? You know? Like, okay, let's think about that too.

Yes. Yes. So we went in and so we went in we went in and and that's the record we want a Grammy for. We actually want a Grammy for for the Chickoria Acoustic. Wow, that's our acoustic band. Yeah, but that record that record was was made not with the intent to create a new band. That that was that was delivered because he had to deliver a record under contract.

So he did and then there was so much demand for it that he had to turn it into a band. So now we were we were touring with two bands. Oh my god. And um yeah. At this point are you like Burnt out, yes. No not just burnt out, but are you be on the besides that, are you like, Oh man, I'm doing it. Like this is my dream, I'm doing it. Of course. Of course. Um Yeah, I, you know, I, yeah, Absolutely. But towards the end of it, you know, I'm inherently in and

Yeah, inherently is the right word. You know, I can be kind of a negative guy sometimes, which is, you know, the one thing in my life that I that I really hate about myself that I'm, you know, have been trying to work on as a as a human, you know, as I as I get older. And continue the journey, you know. Um and so I would always f you know, I was always finding the the negative about it. Another I'm so

Stupid. So but anyway but anyway, as I say, a reason for everything. It kinda pushed me to the point where where I was I was so burnt out and I wasn't really um uh in a position to uh be able to study more, practice more, play with different people, do other things. And and we're not even talking about life yet. I mean just personal stuff. We're talking about career, right? Um and um and it just got to the point in the early nineties, ninety two, ninety three, I said, Chick, I gotta go, man.

I'm sorry, I love you, but I gotta go. Um and I had to I had to make that change. Um I had to I had to go. And and it was uh you know, it was It was an unmarrying of sorts, you know, I hate to use a divorce word, but unmarrying, you know, of a of that relationship.

My day kicks off with a refreshing Celsius energy drink, then straight to the gym. Pre-K pickup, back home to meal prep. Time for my fire station shift. One more Celsius, gotta keep the lights on. When the three alarm hits, I'm Celsius. Grab a cold refreshing Celsius at your local retailer or locate now at Celsius. Yeah, because that was seven years, right? Seven years you guys were together. Yeah. Yeah, basically. Nine albums.

A Grammy. It's a lot. And the other thing I didn't say is that I really wanted to I really wanted to do my own band. I wanted to I w I wanted to try. You know, to be to do it in a leader situation, write my own music tour, do it the way I wanted to do it, you know. We're gonna get to that, but I I gotta stick on we gotta go back to electric band for a second. I don't want to blow quite past it. Um so

With with electric band, how did you guys write music? Most of the time Chick was, you know, bringing in compositions. And would you have charts for everybody or is it structured? Like what what was that? Yeah, very structured, uh although lots of improv sections. I know John had bass lines for the most part. Um and of course melodies and all that stuff were written out. And never I I never got a drum chart ever. I always I always got a piano score. And um

Sometimes on some of the records there Chick would would start to create demos. He got he got pretty adventurous with his Sinclavier as uh as time went on and started to do demos. for records and I would you know, I would take some of those ideas and incorporate'em and and then, you know, suggest and add some of my own as as We were recording and rehearsing.

Um and then I a couple times like you know, like on Light Years for example, I mean we were we were involved in the composition a little bit. But for the most part, man, it was it was chick's baby. I mean. And rightly so. I mean, no w it's just his his his compositional ability was frightening. I it's just you know, he he said one time that for um

uh Eye of the Beholder, the the the I forget the name of the song. It's not the that's not the name of the song. Or is it? Is it the you know ba da da da da bo da da da what whatever um wow. Um anyway that song he said he dreamt it. He he woke up from a dream and had to get up and go write it down.

And yeah, I think it was that record that he was writing as we were doing it. What about Gotta Match? What's the story of that song? The story with that song, that's that that was obviously from the very first record, the very beginning. At that point We were we were excited about everything. I mean, John and I were kids, man. I mean, we were just like, you know, um I rem I remember one thing about the band.

We had just played the Queen Mary Jazz Festival. Miles was on it, you know, different different bands and and it was kind of one of our big debuts as a trio. And we played the gig and Bernie Kirsch, our sound engineer, would record everything from the board. Bernie, Bernie, give me the cassettes, give me the cassettes. We're gonna go to the car and check it out, you know.

So he gives us the cassette. I'm with John John. Come on, man, let's go listen to this. I got my car here, you know. So I would get in there in my little Honda Civic wagon and put it in the Alpine Ployer, you know. And we're listening, you know. And we're listening. And I'm like, dude. Why does it sound like chick is burning and we're dragging? Yeah, I know, man. It's like on fire and we're like, you know.

And so we came to the realization, because you know, both John and I most recently when we got into the band had both come out of R and B situations. I think John was playing with Larry Carlton and and whomever, and he was doing a lot of electric pocket music. I had just come out of doing a lot of gigs with Richard T and Cornel Dupree and Sanborn on occasion, um, you know, Who It Is was the name of that band. Uh and Will Lee. Will Lee was playing best.

So I w I was concentrating more on the, you know, the trying to lay back and play the play more pocket-oriented. Um so we got on the band and some of the music John and I would would would would we'd be in it for the mentality of like a rhythm section to hold the time down. You know, and we realized really quickly we couldn't do that'cause the result was as I said, chick was burning and we were dragging. That just wasn't happening.

at all. So we made a decision at that point to as as Mike Stern likes to say, get up off of it and play a little bit more on top than maybe we wanted to. Um but if we didn't, it just didn't work, you know. And and that's one of the things that I that I also love about and learned from Maestro Gad is that is that he can adapt to anything.

You know, you'd hear'em with Ricky Lee Jones or or, you know, Paul Simon or what have you, you know, just you know, you know, laid back, funky, beautiful pocket, right, groove. And then you'd hear him with Michelle or Chick or whoever it was, and it it was like pushing forward, you know, or it was still in time, of course, but it had an edge. That's a that's what's called adaptation. And I you know, to to to not rush or drag, but to play with, at the same time you're doing the same job.

oriented aspect of what we do, which is keep time. But it's the feel. It's the it it's so difficult. So I remember I used to get blasted quite a quite a lot back in the day for my feel being on top, right? And what most people don't know about the story is this aspect that if we didn't play on top, you know, and sometimes Chick would ask us to as well.

you know, it just didn't work musically for him. And the one thing that I always tell my students is make the person happy who's paying your salary. Whoever writes a check. That's who you make happy. Nobody else matters. You gotta like everybody falls in line with who's ever paying a check. It's like and then you make it work. You figure it out how to make it musically enjoyable, musically, you know, um satisfying.

And so that is kind of that was sort of our existence in the electric van, is that w we you know Except for the light years record and maybe a couple of other tunes. Um, we did have to play quite a bit more on top than than we would have maybe preferred that time.

It's it's crazy to think about you guys dragging because of of course the electric band that I have seen was once you guys dialed it in and it was so unbelievably incredible. You and Pattitucci together are so locked. Like you guys are one of the greatest rhythm set. Ever. Right. Well let me let me clarify. I I did say that it sounded like we were dragging. I should have said that it sounded like we were just, you know, you know

too too far in the back side of the pocket because it's not like we were slowing it's not like we were slowing down for God's sakes. We couldn't do that chick. No way. Um but But there you know, it it it is it is something to learn from, to pay attention to that um you know, and of course you could do metronomic study to, you know, hopefully better your inner clock and all that type of thing.

Um but, you know, there is there is the whole essence of, you know, some people are out there, you know, professing, uh, you don't need a metronome, don't practice with a metronome, which is nuts to me. um, you know, just for the fact of that if you if you only, you know, approach time from your your human aspect all of the time.

Um you know, some of us get into habitual things either from physical motion or or just where they want the tempo to be that's comfortable. And sometimes tempo Maybe somebody else wants it is not coming. It's not where you want to be. So, you know, I still profess that, you know, that that practicing, learning about playing time with a metronome and a, you know, and while we're talking about it, a good feeling metronome.

Which is why my buddy Jay's app called GrooveClicks is like, you know, what I use because it's a good feeling metronome with grooves and you know. pocket stuff. Th that whole thing of like time and, you know, developing inner clock and then, you know, it still comes down to the feel of it, you know.

Um and there you c y I mean you could write books on this stuff, you know, and some do and you know, but but it's it's the feel and it's the feel that's that is agreed upon with whomever you're playing with at the time. So it's a it's a it's a very, very difficult subject to talk about or certainly to teach. Really, really hard because it a lot of it comes down to the moment of an agreed upon expression, you know.

What was the greatest lesson Chick Korea taught you? Uh to basically create an environment for for everybody to to be free to create. That's that's probably the mo the most important, you know, because Yeah, because it as a as anything. It you don't have to be a leader to to do that because the vibe that you create on stage especially is, you know, it you want everybody to be To like to play with you. You know?

And and for me, uh it's you know, I'm still working on it to come out of my my serious place of like uh you know of you know of yes you know, trying to get the feel to happen but but also of just, you know, uh concentrating. It's a it's a concentration. Um so you know, some drummers can can just smile all day while they're playing, you know.

I can't do that. You know? It's like it's like this is serious business here, you know? Yes, I want to have fun. Yes, I want it to feel good, but you know, trying to work here, you know? How am I supposed to smile, you know?

I'm trying to work on that too It's funny to fast forward uh To fast forward to your incredible higher ground cover that you did. with Jay Oliver and with Chris Coleman also on drums, you and Chris Coleman doing a drum duet, which is such a powerful, amazing cover uh an arrangement that that you guys did. But it's funny that you say that because Chris is sitting there super smiley, super smiley.

That's what I mean. I can only imagine being in your head of like going. Do I smile? Well, I mean Chris I love Chris. He's uh he's a he's a beast, man. He's just a monster and he's such a great. Yeah. So it was that project was a lot of fun. I wanna get to we're gonna get into your solo project. That's well what I wanna talk about next, but to kinda end it on on uh on chick. So Wow man, you you just got to have such an incredible shared life experience.

Like it's w what a blessing that must have been. Wha is there anything that you wish people knew about him? There's always the you know, the the the Scientology cloud, you know, which which comes up all the time and I you know Um you know, Chick was you know, of course it it's it was

way of life for him and it was saved his life back in the early day probably and you know, it's it was his his way of operating and the only thing he was concerned about is that we respected that, that we understood it.'Cause nobody else in the band was a Scientologist and

Partook in that. So Um you know, for me it's we all had we all had sort of the agreement and the and the the whole um approach of like, look, man, whatever works for you as long as it it's all working, you know, and that's basic And I said, you know, because it's not that he was trying to get us to to come in. He just was curious about how we thought about it. I was like, dude, I it's it's like your thing and I got my thing to

you know, that um that I'm good. You know. And so that was co that that that aspect of it was cool. Um But um you know the the I think I think what anyone what anyone can see online of when Chick talks, you know, is that is t is totally transparent. He you know, he's he was just always so um, you know, genuinely genuinely curious.

how you felt about stuff to discuss what was going on with, you know, um things on and off the stage and and uh And yeah, man, I you know, it it just uh I I guess uh I guess the easiest way to say it is that, you know, whatever it looks like, you know, with him, it's how it is. Totally.

Seems like he was just an incredible leader. Yeah, well he was, you know, first of all an incredible musician and but yes, he really like I said, he understood how to um how to give everybody their their creative space, you know. And uh but but but everybody, you know, that I mean that's what kind of in in Chick's life in his world created the respect, you know uh And so I think everybody most most people were always, you know, very happy to just uh make sure he was.

I know for me that was my main concern was to not play too loud for the trio, you know, especially. That was that was probably one of my biggest challenges ever. Was there a favorite show from electric band or acoustic band of yours? Nah, I mean man, we we did so many amazing shows. I mean, of course, back in the early days we did we did a show in São Paulo, Brazil, and it was an outdoor show and it was free. It was like eighty thousand people.

So that was pretty special. And then um I remember a a bullfighting ring in either Spain or Argentina somewhere that we played and the power went out and me and Eric were the only ones that could keep playing for like twenty minutes. And you kept playing? Oh yeah, man. We just kept you kidding? There was there must have been two thousand people there. I mean, we were we had to keep playing, we had to do something.

And then finally the power came back on. So it was kinda cool. It's so crazy, man. This is like you know, playing jazz fusion in front of eighty thousand people. Like this is the peak of fusion. There were so many great shows. I mean, you know, we did I mean it It's we we we toured extensively. Yeah. I mean I mean we were on we were on tour I I I mean it was endless. I mean, you know, spring, summer, fall. And it was usually anywhere from, you know, five to ten weeks per tour at a time.

Yeah, that's a lot. I mean yeah, it was a lot. It was a lot Wow But what a wave you got to ride. Did you realize it at the time? Yes, and then and then it was I f like I s like I said, I just you know you know, for whatever stupid reason I just got, you know, so into my own, you know unhappiness of not of looking over there And not completely digging into the moment, you know, which was my bad. Uh completely. So so it it uh but

I mean there there there is such a thing as, like I said, as just burnt out. I mean man, it it and not to mention, you know, I mean I'm I'm dealing with, you know, some some injury stuff in my hand that that um You know, that is due to Yeah, all those years of Really hard stressing body. Touring and playing. And some other stupid stuff that I've done like slamming my thumb.

door six years ago didn't help. But but thankfully the the way that I play with the with you know this being kinda loose up here doesn't really it's um I'm still pretty much okay. But thank God.

So that was it. You were you were burnt out, you were kind of ready for the next thing, you wanted to do uh your solo albums, and so you so you left. Chick. Yeah, but a lot of it was j just to to get off of such a heavy road schedule and to go back into study. And that's when I that's when I had talked to Steve Smith a lot

Um, you know,'cause I noticed that he was just, you know, in th in that period, he was just growing exponentially. I mean, he was just getting so much better. I'm like, Steve, what the hell are you doing? He goes, dude, he goes, you gotta go see Freddie Group. It's crazy to think about you'cause I think like

I just as a fan watching you play, I'm like, wow, Dave sounds incredible. Like you're you're you're crushing it in that moment and for you to be like, I need to get to the next level. Like that's where you are in your head. You're like, I need to go study more. I need to go to fresh.

Yeah, I was I was not happy. I I really wanted to because I was working very hard. It's not that I couldn't play. I mean it was you know, I was obviously probably hit ten thousand hours of study in my early twenti mid twenties, latest, you know. So, you know, yeah, um, but I was I was working too hard. Uh, I was hurtin', you know, I was yeah, I I wasn't happy with and I I just wanted to grow. I wanted I wanted to grow. It was a a a need, you know, it was a necessity.

And um and I wanted to play with other people, which is you know, so I I I was able to do some more stuff with Michelle Camillo. I was did the Brecker Brothers a little bit and um then I

Through the Brecker Brothers is where I kinda got hooked up with Stern that we even though I played on his first record, um, upside downside. in the day and that was also eighty four. Working with Mike Stern, let's jump to that'cause I guess that is before your solo records. Um and I would love I would love to dive into that a bit. Like, yeah, right. What was that like working with Mike Stern? Because I I those projects were all incredible. All the track

Mike is just so great. I mean, he's another um he's another wonderful human being, man. He's such a great cat. Well love'em. And um and and we had a lot of the, you know, same sensibilities of time and you know, and all that stuff. Um And and uh and we had some great moments, man. When we started when we started working together we did a lot of stuff with Jeff Andrews, the late

bass player Jeff Andrews. And um there's some video of that out there too. Uh Jeff was just pfft Man, God, you know, this day I s like nobody plays changes on the bass like Jeff Andrews. So those were the early days and then we did some stuff with Lincoln Goines and you know, the Saks chair was always revolving with Bob Malik and you know, and uh Bob Shepherd did some gigs.

We did some gigs with the late great Dave Carpenter and bass player. It just went the the band really cycled through quite a lot of different players. And then of course Tom, my my brother from another mother, Tom Kennedy, um we started doing with Mike. But but back in the day before my band, because it was kind of like two periods with Mike. Absolutely. It was that it was that it was that early period. Um, you know, from ninety four to ninety eight, basically.

Um because once ninety eight, ninety nine came around I started I s based off the rhythm of the soul record, I started doing my own thing. But but with Stern, we j we did a bunch of touring, man. Tour we did some man a couple of records. um with with Mike and You know, those were those were also some some tough tours. I mean, you know, touring touring, you know, a jazz tour.

whether it be you know, back then we used to be able to um you know, getting like a tour bus, especially in Europe, was m was more affordable than it is now. Yeah. And those were, you know, with Chick and with with with Stern too. And actually some with my own band actually we did it as well. Um, that's out of sight now. You can't even think about it, man, unless you're on some major stadium tour. Um

But um, you know, so yeah, we'd be sleeping on the bus, we'd be you know, man, it was everybody's there was like, Oh man, it's such a glamorous lifestyle. Yeah, okay. You know, you gotta work out just so you can travel. Never mind the playing. You know, it's like you gotta be in shape just to deal with all that stress. Well yeah, you're not playing normal gigs. You're like all the gigs that you're on, you're playing incredibly proficient.

High energy music, so many notes, like l the mental game versus the physical game. It's a lot more than just playing a normal gig. Well with Mike, I you know, with Mike and his music, especially in a trio situation, man, it was really it's a demanding gig for a drummer. I mean, you're playing you're playing a lot of, you know, up tempo jazz, there's a lot of drum solos. There's it was a lot There was a lot of playing.

Um, but always enjoyable. We had such a such a great chemistry and and um you know, we haven't played together in a while now, but um but hopefully we get to do some more stuff. But

Um but yeah, it was that that was that period that was that that was really, really fun and really cool. So in nineteen ninety you dropped Master Plan, your your debut solo album. And I've heard you say in previous interviews that You called it master plan because it was all part of your master plan that you had. But what exactly was that? The master plan was um because, you know, GRP basic was signing everybody back in the late eighties, mid to late eighties and and after Chick got the deal

with uh with GRP with with the electric band. Um they almost immediately signed John and they and Eric was next. And maybe even Frank, I don't remember if he was with GRP too, but I guess he was for a minute. Um and they asked me. They asked me right at the same time, they asked John and I said

I said, no. I said I'm not gonna I'm not gonna do that until I feel I have a market to do it for. Yeah. Um So I really since since a time that I was in my teens, I was a teenager, like, you know, and I'm I'm listening to all these guys. And I'm I'm just like, where's the instructional stuff, man? You know, where where's the where's the cool play alongs from these guys? Why is nobody produced

So I wanted to do contemporary drummer plus one since the time I was seventeen. And by the time I was twenty six twenty seven, it was time. And so Jay and I put this thing together. That we basically approached like doing a record as far as the sound quality and what it was. I wanted to make to that date the most comprehensive playlong book and playlong charts and transcriptions that was on the market. And so the plan was to to to get that project done, which we did, we completed

and and get it out there. And, you know, you know, Rob Wallace and Paul Siegel were, you know, so helpful in, you know, back in the day when s you know getting it out there. Um And, you know, this we're still talking the period pre digital basically. So I mean there is videotapes, yes, but but the audio aspect was still pretty pretty happening. So this was this would have been eighty seven, probably, eighty eight. And um and so it came out in cassette form at first.

But anyway that was that was sorta the plan. I wanted to get that out there and I think I did back to basics, the video, maybe even the next step, and maybe that was later, but I think we did both the video and the and the audio thing. 'Cause I wanted to capture the drum market, I uh if I could. Yeah. I wanted to put out there what was possible maybe to put out there in the in the drum.

And um and it worked. So by by eighty eight, eighty nine I said, Okay, I'll take the deal they were still offering it and um and so we put it together. We actually used a couple tunes from the play along on the records. Um and that was the master plan. That was the idea of trying to capture the audience. And I think I think my record I think that record sold like eighty thousand copies in the first couple of years. So it kind of worked.

You know. Yeah. And you had Steve Gadd play. on one of the tracks with you. So was that part of the plan too, to get one of your favorite drummers to duet with you? No, no, no, no, no, no. That well yes, but but no, that was not the that was not the reason I did that. The reason I did that was Um I wanted to cr recreate the vibe of the session where I first heard Steve get. And that was that was on Chickaria's I think it was Mad Hatter.

Whichever whichever record Humpty Dumpty is on, okay. And I I don't know if that's a leprechaun or Matt Hatter. I always get him confused. I think it's Matt Hatter, but Anyway, um I wanted to recreate that session with Anthony Jackson, Chick, and me. And Jay was there too, right? Um at Mad Hatter Studios where it was recorded. And um And Steve. So I I and I wanted to in I wanted to insert myself in there. So Chick agreed. He thought it was a great idea and he offered to write the song.

And um and that was it. We we did it and that was the outcome. I actually I actually have some uh some little some little V VHS pieces of that recording too, which we've we've got on the shelf somewhere. We're trying to get some interviews done about it. So Um but yeah, that was uh that was a special moment, of course, man. Any any time I I ever got to play with and still get to play with Steve is, you know. It's still kind of a pinch me moment. I think I'm forever the student, you know.

So it's just the way it is. I know I can I can hear it when you talk about Steve and when you talk about Peter, Erskine. Like you're you're clearly still too such you still just admire them. So Yeah without without those guys I mean the the journey would have been different. Let's put it that way. And who knows? I don't know if it would have been as good or as serious.

with some guys, my little brother Anthony, with some guys in Mount Washington. And he was like, Hey, one of the guys I'm living with says that he's best friends with Dave Weckle. And I was like, really? Are you sure? He's probably lying. Like, what's his name? He was like, His name's Jay.

It was Jay Oliver. My brother lived with Jay Oliver. No kidding. For like a year. Yeah, for like a year. So I went over to the house and met Jay. It was really great. And I actually lived at the time up Mount Washington as well, so I was very close. So I could I could like walk to their house. But uh wow, nice. But it was it was great. And that was uh what actually made me'cause I I had known um Master Plan and And your your solo albums, I was obviously a fan of that and

Um but I di I I I just didn't know that it was really you and Jay together, like putting all those compositions and producing and everything together. I didn't realize how big of a of a partner Jay has been in your in your musical life. Oh yeah, man. Yeah, yeah. Like I said, we we when we met we we kinda you know, we kinda knew that it was, you know, again it was like a

a brother from another mother scenario and and yeah, we were sort of we were inseparable until he left first actually. He got the gig with Maynard Ferguson when he was nineteen. So he kinda left town first and then I followed after. to go east. But yeah, we were uh and then of course the you know, the relationship stayed together and then in eighty one he moved up with me.

Um and got in Night Sprite and that's that was that whole thing and then um you know, uh that dissipated in eighty two basically. It was only a a year lived and he moved back to St. Louis. to do more studio stuff and um and be in in his studio that he still has. He's still it's revamped now, but but he's still in the same studio we recorded Master Plan with all those re all those songs.

Um, you know, with you know, Michael Bricker and Chick both both in that basement, you know, recording and Anthony too recording stuff. So Yeah, it's quite a bit of history. It's cool. It's and so yeah, so Jay, you know, then um uh you know, fast forward to my

situation of d wanting to do my own records and of course it was with him. So um but before that even the you know, the contemporary drummer plus one happened with him. So I mean every time I would come home we'd be doing stuff together and And then um yeah, he was still at home in during the making of Master Plan. And then I think after that he moved to LA because um we we have to go about it differently for heads up and everything else after that than it was we were both in California.

One thing I would absolutely love to talk to you about,'cause I don't think people really think about what goes into making your own products like your signature lines. You have your your signature snare drums, you have your signature stick. your symbols, the evolution line and the legacy line. Um but I would love to at first Ask you about your sticks, like what goes into developing your VicFirth signature?

How do you do that? And how long does it take to get it right?'Cause I mean your stick I believe is one of the most used ones. I've I've used your sticks for years. I love it. I love the color. I love the way they feel. What goes into that? Well, I mean, speaking of the Vic sticks, the Vic Firth sticks, I mean, you know I have two versions, right? I've got the red one, which is the original um and then which is you know, it's like it's longer than usual. It's sixteen inches, I think.

where these are a little bit less and then the evolution stick which um was tied in of course to the evolution brand na labeling, cross marketing, whatever. It was an idea. Um And the red sticks matched the red drums at the time and then these sticks match the maple kit I was playing at the time. Oh that's Yeah, that's um that's over there. That kit Oh look at that.

That kit, yeah, that's my that's the other it's so looking from here, that's that way, that that kit. So that was that that color was dis you know, that's why this is the evolution stick is this called. Um so um yeah, the uh the original stick

I can't remember the the timeline or like how m how much time was invested in in development. Um I just kinda knew what I wanted. Um Um but due to the way that I was playing I back then, which was um a bit more physical to for lack of better d you know description.

Uh I wanted a longer stick and I wanted the round bead and and and and and so anyway that stick became a thing and it was funny. Um When I went to study with Freddie first, when I first went to study with him, he takes my sticks and he's playing them on the pad and he goes, Well, the first thing you're gonna do is we wanna get a different stick I said, Why?

So we have to go through a bunch of lessons. And and yeah, hi it basically um you know, it was all about the the the amount of weight in the front end and the overall balance of the stick. So for the physical stuff, you know, the when I was playing more from the back of the stick and and playing more into the drums, the red sticks kinda s you know served the purpose.

I was playing way back on the state, um, a la Gad and Erskine, right? So Um so I really wasn't concerning myself so much with bounce because I was not even holding the sticks in a ba in a balanced place, so there there wasn't much bounce, thus me putting in more physical effort Thus me getting injuries and you know, just wrong.

So with Freddie, the whole thing of, you know, bounce and relaxation came back into play and and yeah, I realized that my stick wasn't wasn't uh didn't have enough weight up here, the red one, right? For for this whole rebound thing to happen. Um So I I went back to a five A for a minute. And I you know, I told uh I told Vic, I said, We gotta you know, we we we gotta come up with something here that that um

that works. Um and what I want different in a five A is that I I want more weight up here. And I want the tip a little bit different, but I don't want the stick to be heavy. And Vic's like, Well good luck with that. So This stick took two and a half years to design. through hundreds, hundreds of um of product Uh and we finally we finally came up up with with this S D two evolution stick that has now been on the market for twenty years probably. But God it's been a long time.

Well, I I'll take that back. Tw um no, wait. Two thousand one. Yeah. Two thousand and one no, Jesus, twenty-five years. Twenty six years. Um yeah, so uh man, time's flying. Um absolutely Yeah, so but I learned a lot about stick construction and just stick variances, you know, even if it's the same stick, I found out, wow, the same stick can weigh different weigh, you know, different quite a bit differently, you know. So

Um so I'm down to, you know, the sensitivity, especially with the injury. I'm I I actually order my stick by the gram. Well, not by the grams as as but individual grams of the stick, which I'm not gonna share that number because then everybody will ask for that number. And then they're gonna be out of that. And I don't know if they'll actually do that. But but yeah, the I I just found out that, you know, that a stick The same stick can vary in the

Probably ten to fifteen, maybe even twenty grams. Maybe that's a lit a little much. But quite a bit. And and my sticks, these these evolutions, they they ship a little bit on the heavy side. So I d let's let's put it that way. I generally have to ask

Yeah. Um but if you go to stores you can you can certainly try them and and see what feels good to your hand. I mean that that's the other thing. I mean, back in the day, man, you know, we would go to Manny's and Joe Cassada's store on forty sixth street, you know, in Manhattan and And it's like, Hi Joe, I need to buy some sticks and he would just grab whatever I wanted, the whole thing, put'em on the counter, you know, so there'd be

fifty sticks sitting there. It wasn't no match pairs and this and all that. It was like, okay, let's roll them first. Let's see what's warped. Okay, those are warped. Put those over there. Now we got these, so now let's see what has the same pitch. you know, and what feels the same weight and you know, picking out, you know, four pairs of sticks took about an hour and a half, you know. It was like a it was like a process.

So yeah, buying sticks online becomes like a a little bit of a crapshoot, you know. Um symbols too for that matter. I mean we we bought symbols by basically going in and going. You know, how does it sound? You know, how does it feel? How does it play?

So speaking of sound and symbols, because the evolution symbols are some of my favorite symbols. Um and this and so w what is the story of cause I know you you released the evolution line with Sabian. And I believe before that you were was you were with Zildjian for years, right? So what was the story of you creating the evolution line and how did you think to put holes in the Okay. Well, first of all, my my first symbol endorsement was with Sabian in nineteen eighty.

Yeah. Uh nineteen yeah. It's uh yeah, if you s if you look up old pictures of me with Chick even in the early days and and certainly with Simon de Garfunkel and anything, you know, in that era. Um yeah, you're gonna see the Sabian logo. Um and you know, while Robert Zildjian was still alive, uh it was the funniest story because, you know, at the time I remember It was up I was somewhere in the States and I I was trying to call the the the rep'cause I needed a different ride symbol, you know.

And uh couldn't get a hold of'em, wouldn't call me back. And meanwhile, Zildjian's calling like every every day. And, you know, long story short, I uh I couldn't I couldn't get in touch with anybody at Sabian, you know, so I I went I went with Zildjian. I left, you know, and I went and I went there And uh Robert.

every time I would see Robert, he would just look at me and say, you know, it was a f it was a it was just a funny backstory of of like when he got wind of that. I mean that guy, whoever he was, was fired. um especially a few late a few years later. Um so anyway, yes, the the story goes um you know, that um i I I came to a point when I was when I was with Zildjian'cause look, I mean, they make great symbols. Everybody makes great symbols. There's so much great stuff out there, you know.

Um, it was just a period of time where I I became very, very unhappy with the crash symbols. Okay. They just uh they had made these symbols called the brilliant Ks and they were fantastic and I loved'em, but they they wouldn't hold up, they'd crack, you know, so They

And then they started making the crashes heavier. So I was just in a period where it was like, Man, I can't I I can't find a crash. These are like gongs, you know, they're they're just like too heavy. And um and David Vi had just gotten with Sabian maybe a year or two earlier and he he he offered me I s you know he said, You wanna come make some symbols? And I said, maybe I said,'cause I know I know what I want, you know. And and yeah, they basically they they basically gave me

an open palette to create what I wanted. And um so I went there. I went there in in September of two thousand one. and to the factory and I sat there with the guys and you know, there was some things and I said, okay, this but I want it to be I want it to be this. And they made some stuff over the next three or four days that was it. I mean it had I said you guys gotta find a way to make a thin a thin, beautiful sounding symbol that is tempered in a way that it doesn't crack, you know. So

So that was the beginning of the evolution. Um and my my directive to them was look, I I want these things to be high fidelity symbols. I want them to be easy to play. I don't want resistance. I want to hit em with my finger and I want that thing to speak, you know. Crashes, splashes, whatever, okay? They figured it out. So thus the evolution.

The other reason I I went to Sabian, you know,'cause I was I was watching um you know, I was I was spending a lot of time out in clubs in LA at the time listening. to people and Joey Haretti was one of my buddies and is one of my buddies and favorite players. And Joey would always have some new thing from Savey. And I'm like, what is that? you know, and and the and the thing was is that um you know, I was I was always into the experimentation of sound, right? So I I remember

listening to Gad on records and you know, and I was like, God, this crash song. What the heck is he playing? It sounds like a I don't know what it sounds like, but it's just fantastic, you know. Then I I'd go to see him play and I realized that half his symbols were crashed. And um And and it created a sound, you know, but I mean I mean he's not the first one. There's a lot of players you can see on pictures with chunks out of their symbols. But Steve

Steve, I think, took it to the next level, man. It was just, you know, so I went to Zildjian one time. I said, Guys, can we make a crack symbol? You know? And they're like, oh, what are you crazy? You nuts. So anyway, that was another reason. No no real willingness to you know to experiments. Sabian was like, we can make a cracked symbol.

No, no, no, no. It wasn't about that. Because obviously making a correct symbol doesn't make much sense, but um now watch somebody'll come out with one. Um anyway, so Yeah, so I'm walking around a factory, um, and I see these little splash symbols. And they got little little holes in'em, right? So somebody had come up with this idea already and and um but it didn't catch nothing, you know, at the time. It was like holes and symbols. Now you can't find a symbol without a hole in it. But

We were first. Yes. So I said I said if you guys try to put this in a bigger crash, to simulate an an imperfect symbol, molecularly. that would cause a different sound. No. Okay, well let's take the eight eighteen evolution and put put holes in it according to the the size, you know, that would correlate with this small size you got here. And they did it and I mean it was just like You know, right out of the box, man. It was it was just like yes different. You know.

So maybe not maybe not to the same extent of what n you know the total idea of it was, but but but that you know, that evolution, you know, it I I mean the ozone, I should say, which is the name of it. Yeah. Um, that thing started showing up everywhere. Everybody had one. So all of a sudden, every cymbal company on the planet started making holes in cymbals.

And yeah, like I said, we were first. I remember when I first got my ozone, I was like, this is the greatest symbol ever. Like, cause you could use it as a crash. Not as, you know, embracing abrasive as uh China or anything like that. It was and it it cuts, but it's thin

The best. I'll I'll tend to agree, uh, for sure. But um, you know, that's that's the thing. Uh you know, um You know, Sabine just has that willingness and they had and they still have that willingness to be creative and try anything and and um And and they they were willing to share in in the signature profit.

I mean my symbols don't m I don't get any more money than any other Sabian artist that has a signature line. The only the only difference for me that I that that I r really pushed is that, you know, because at the time Sabian's logos were like huge. Top and bottom signature, big signature. Like and they're like, Well, we'll put your name really big on the top. I said

No. Absolutely not. He said, I want I want I want to make the logo smaller, okay? Top and bottom. I want this to be a classy symbol, right? And yeah, I want my name on it'cause I got something to do with it, but I want it under the bell, just like the Turkish things used to be. You know, it's like you gotta look for it. You gotta look for it'cause I don't s I don't want my name to be

the reason somebody does or doesn't buy a symbol. I want'cause I knew I knew that what this was gonna be, that if they could get it right, it's cause I knew nobody was making it at that time. Not even Sabian. I mean nobody was making it. So So yeah, they became a thing. And then, you know, so we're talking five, six days I was there and I was I was getting ready to leave the next day and we woke up to nine eleven.

And so um I was stuck in Canada and we're like watching all this, you know, horror, horrific drama develop and Okay, after we spent a few hours doing that and you know, talking to family and all that stuff, we're like looking at each other and we're like, let's go make some more simple And um and that's when legacy got created. I said, I want a jazz symbol. I want I want a I want a thinner, you know, dirtier, darker, you know, thing.

So let's go let's go make some more let's make some jazz symbols. So I was stuck there another three days, I guess, and um and that's where legacy was was created.

It's crazy'cause evolution and legacy are gonna be a huge part of Ever made? They're pretty they're pretty special. They're they're they're very I I think they're very versatile. Um you know a lot of I I've been told that a lot of rockeyes use the twenty inch evolution or the legacy for a crash or even bigger sometimes, you know.

How does that make you feel? Well, I mean it makes me feel like I knew I was right because I knew if they made what we were envisioning, what I was hearing, what I what I knew would would I I knew the symbol was, you know or at least I was I hoped the symbol was gonna be as successful as as what the sonic aspect of the symbol was telling me. From my my perspective of what I like. Now not not everybody of course is gonna like that but

but it seemed to be an overwhelming agreement that it just it was inviting. That's a thing. It invites and invites you to touch it to play it. And then the legacy the legacy ride I get a lot of questions about that ride symbol, um, you know, of you know, any videos I might post and you know, I'm I'm I have I have I have three different ride symbols that I go back and forth with on on with group. Mm um either a twenty, um either the twenty or the twenty one.

Sometimes a twenty two, but generally a twenty or a twenty one evolution. Um uh and at times too I will I will use uh a twenty or a twenty-one legacy, which is which is thin for the jazz stuff. But this is the twenty two heavy. legacy. And this is the r this is the symbol I use mostly on the road. And I just posted a nice video with Richard Bona. Um

that I put together. Uh I saw it's great. Yeah. That's this symbol. That not this one, but one one like it. And that that actually brings up a point about the symbols because my criteria with Sabian was I said, I'm not gonna do this with you guys unless you can absolutely guarantee me that the weight guideline is so strict for each symbol. And the and the method of production, since this is a specialty signature line, I said I want

What is in the stores to be exactly what I play. I don't want any difference because I want to be able to walk into any clinic and get my symbol set up and I'm at home. So if you can't say yes to that. and they made it happen. So cool.

Yeah, and they I mean, wildly successful and they're still selling as good as they almost as good as they were day one. That's gotta feel real cool'cause it's like it's similar to like maybe when you're driving in a car and you hear someone listening to your music.

But how do you feel when you show up to a concert and you see a a drummer playing your cymbal? Depends on how they're playing them. Hey oh no I I listen, I say that because I was gonna talk about it before, which is you know it's it's not Only the cymbal or the drum or whatever. Of course, it's the touch of the player. How do they make it sound? How conscious are you of?

uh how you're striking the symbol. Where where are you placing that? Are you just stuffing these things in and beating the hell out of everything with no no concept of of what they sound like? I mean that's why I'm not sure if I'm You know, for me, I do my own sound on stage basically, especially for my own ears, and and that's why I always have the the overheads. I I basically duplicate the way the sound, the way the kit sounds acoustically in my ears.

So and it's and it's really a lot having to do with the f the fact that uh I don't want to overplay the symbols. Um it's easy to do. Emotional, you get passionate, wow, you really hit it hard, you know? Um but if it's too loud, you're going to be conscious of it. And sitting on top of it with nothing in your ears, I mean this stuff can be loud.

Now having said that, these symbols were designed to not be harsh. They were designed to have a a a a fidelity sound, you know, more fidelity scooped out type of sound. Um and that's how they that's how they project. So But yeah, it's also it i a lot of it is how the individual drummer, you know, treats the touch of the cymbals and the drums, how they sound. Yeah. What are you most proud of?

Uh in in what in what sense? Well you've created so much, right? Between I mean you got your symbol lines, you have all of the music that you've made, you have all of your education, there's so much you have There's like so much in the in the world of Weckle. Well honestly what what makes me feel good is is is being able to continue um to to be able to continue doing what I'm doing. That's what that's what makes me feel.

Yeah, you know, things like the the products and the and the stuff. I mean, you know, we made we made the We made the prologic, you know. You know, it's like everything else. The the stuff was created, um, you know, symbols, sticks. um snares, you know, even though these aren't uh a production model, they're limited edition stuff now. But you know, this stuff was all created in in

as a void in a in a necessary thing that I wanted. Like, you know, Prologic Prologics, they you know, and they make these great pads, but Um I wanted something small enough and light enough to carry around, so we we worked on a pad together called the the travel light, which which is my little signature pad that I carry around. Um

Same with the symbols. I didn't have what I wanted, so we made them. We we made it happen. The sticks it's you know, it's all for me first, but but it it's and I wasn't making these thinking about, okay, who's gonna who's gonna buy these and make me some money? I'd Right. I need to create something that I need first. For yourself. That and I'm not making any compromises on that for somebody else or for a sale. Right. So it's

So it's not about that. I mean this little this little snare drum muffler, same thing. Little you know, little little devices that I've helped create and and you know, so So I always told drummers it's like, you know, you have to you do have to think about, you know, survival and all that stuff. And I mean all of this type of thing is a little addition to passive income, you know, and that's you know

Um and that's important but the but the most important thing is that I I have an instrument to express myself without a distraction. Yes. That's really the bottom line.

When you were at your peak output, when do you think that was and what was your team like?

Come on, Elmo. I haven't hit my peak yet. Okay. Well or or right now, are you are is is this and I'm talking about not your peak of drumming or but like your your peak of output. You know what I mean? Like when you had Oh. Well Yeah, I'll uh I mean having having me myself said it, you know, I mean the the peak of you know, of output playing wise, yeah, it was probably Maybe eight years ago, eight or nine years ago was P Fifty seven, fifty eight years old, basically.

Um that was pr that was probably peak. So, you know, the you know, just uh certain things of you know, of mostly injury is uh I'm gonna probably have to get this dealt with on one level or another to to to be happy.

W I what do you mean by peak output? Because everything you know, everything wasn't like creative. Um and so output in terms of like Like to when I when I think about how do I get how do I get to Dave Wecko level and I'm not talking about of course there's the practice and all that kind of stuff, but in thinking about

Do I have a team? Do I have a manager? Do I have an agent? Am I doing everything on my own? Am I'cause like I've been self managed for forever, right? Like everything, even with Jam Card now running everything, I've always just built things on my own and kind of just r ran them on my own. But I think as something to explain to drummers like

When you're doing these things,'cause I think someone could look at you and be like, Dave has his own symbols, Dave's playing with these huge artists, he has his solo albums, he has all this. Like, is there a team, a Dave Weckel team? Is it just you? Is it you and Steve? Is there like where where what was the biggest your team or

Yeah, it's always been a very small team. Um um I mean Steve Steve Warkin, you know, came to work with Jay and I um, you know, many years ago back um pre convergence so we're talking at least at least f probably fifteen years ago around that period and and um You know, um Steve got in involved with a lot of things that we were doing and especially me. He's I'd I'd call him my marketing manager because he handles so much for me about uh online media, um, you know posts and to socials and...

you know, just just trying to keep it tr keep track of and get rid of impostors has become a full time job. I mean I I'm just amazed at the amount of people that have no life, you know, that think they gotta act like they're me to to comment on my post. It's like It's like really? I get a life, man. Jesus it's unbelievable. It's really frustrating. Really frustrating. It's it's unbelievable to me.

Is the way of the world, you know. Um Um you know, but but um so so yeah, in a lot of senses Steve has has been, you know, he's he's the co founder and, you know my partner in my online school. Um, you know, he's the president and runner, you know, he's the organizer and, you know. CEO of Drum Fantasy Camp, which is, you know, one of the biggest, best drum camps on the planet. That I'm going to, by the way. I'm actually gonna be there in in August. Um in LA. August w

In LA with Peter Erskine, with Gavin Harrison and with Dennis Chambers. Gonna be a knockout. Great line this time. Yeah, it'd be fun.

Um but yeah, I've never I've never uh I had a I had a manager for for a hot second back in the chick days when Chick's manager Ron Moss was offering his services. I did it for a while and then we both agreed it was not fair and I I didn't want to do it anymore. He didn't really want to take advantage of me like like that. So let that go.

I haven't had a manager since. We have we have um we've ha we have booking agents. Um And I I kinda let you know, my my booking agent here in the States, we kinda parted ways because it it just became I just didn't agree with the way things were were um, you know, on the on the way that it's done in the business here. I d just didn't like the way it was done and we couldn't make any money.

Um so we parted ways. I mean she was great. It was a great relationship and you know she's great. Um but our agents in in Europe, in Italy, Patrizio, Chiosa and And Paulo Marota. Um is uh which who we call Bilo Um and occasionally Alex Travis does some work for us too over there. So but but Patricio, I've been with him since the Stern days, um, you know, and

And we've we've had a long relationship and they they do everything. When they book a tour, they do everything. They book the they book the flights, the hotels, the routing they they do it all. They're like full on assuming some what what some people in this country can consider managerial roles. But uh but yeah the team is is is um

It's it's pretty much all myself. Maybe maybe somewhat to my detriment. Um, you know, I c I could use help for sure. Um I just don't Um i maybe it's coming uh that I'll that I'll consider, you know, getting a uh part time personal assistant of some kind, but it's so hard. It's so hard to to to bring people into your world to trust them, to do what to give them enough info to do what they have to do and then I gotta end up doing half of it anyway.

Someone may think of Dave Weckel may have this huge team or all these people, but it's like you're s you're making everything happen yourself. Like when I look at your tour dates, everything you have going on, your camps, your teaching, your everything. There's a lot, but it's like You're operating it, you're executing all of that. Like there's so much uh there's so much email work for you to be doing outside of drum.

There's a lot of administration. I sometimes I don't get out of the office until three in the afternoon, man. I'm in and I'm in there from nine AM, you know, and it's like there's so much to handle because Outside of the music itself. I mean it really does make sense to s you know, to to surround yourself with people that know more than you do about certain things that can help.

that are not there to, you know, take advantage of you on a in a financial way just based on some, you know, arbitrary system. But um you know, but but it certainly it certainly helps to get input from people and that's why networking and just talking with people and and getting ideas, how do they do it, what's the you know, it's it's I learn something every time I talk to to a fellow musician, friend, whatever about how they're doing things, you know, so

So it's important to to do that. It's just also important to not to not give it away. You know, it's uh you don't you gotta be very careful um to to to not think, you know, uh or to think that you can't do it, you know. Um and You just gotta you gotta ask questions. You have to ask questions. I mean sometimes, yes, we still need to hire lawyers to go over contracts of things that if we don't feel comfortable ourselves. 'Cause now there's th now there's just too much to look out for. Um

you know, with the with the internet and and all of that stuff. But I mean you know, so so yeah, I mean I I surround, you know you know, my family and and personal people in my life don't g don't get involved with my business. I don't I don't do that. So um so yeah, it's uh it's a separate thing and and uh Um and and and Mr. Warkin is certainly very helpful for me. So I'm I'm very grateful for that. FX's love story.

Kennedy Jr. and C. I didn't think I could love someone like this until you Producer Ryan Murphy. It's not a question of if I want to spend the rest of my life with you. It's if I'm cut out to be Mrs. JFK Jr.

How do you prepare for a solo? I I mean I really don't prepare for it. What I what I prepare for is possibly um the palette or the rule set. Um that I would set on myself, like like going back to Mike Stern, for example. Um, you know, a lot of drum solos in a show, lot of uh, you know, similar songs that have drum solos. And when we would play You know, we'd close we'd have two sets for example in front of the same audience um in one night.

and each each uh ending of the set ended with a song that in my mind, you know, kinda had the same writing formula and and, you know, basic basic idea of the way it was and a drum solo over a vamp at the end, right? Part of uh what I what I teach in my online school is is um a couple of things. One of them is is study and practice in preparation for spontaneous. creativity. The second one is implying rules. And I use rule sets.

And what I mean by that is um, you know, let's say I have these two solos, right? So in the first solo, just for some silly thing, right, I'd I would say, Okay, for the first solo I'm gonna do some some kind of Latin cowbell stuff, right? You know, so the cobell be i i included and and everything I play in this solo is gonna be in a in a structured in a way with what I would call uh well let's let's say precise subdivisions, okay.

So every everything that I would play would be fairly easy to to transcribe in the sense of i it would make sense, you know, from a mathematics standpoint. Um and the second solo uh in the night, I can't touch that cowboy. And there's gonna be a section in the solo where I do what what I've coined uh the term to be loose phrasings, okay? Um and and that has to do with with more

floating subdivisions that are not mathematical, they are not worked out. I don't know what they are. It's kind of a Jack Dejanette jazz approach. Okay. It's uh it's more f it's more liquid, you know, it's better But I'm still keeping the quarter note going, so I'm not I'm not in a position where I'm just BSing my way through it and playing some other time signature or just playing something completely irrelevant to what the time is. It's not that.

I'm very conscious of where the quarter note is where I am, because I'm I'm dictating it, right? I'm outlining it here. And then the phrasings become that and there's corners here and there but there may be more over the bar line stuff, display stuff within the fluid liquid phrasing, so And that is enough to for me to separate the rule set of the solos, but the content never. I I never

think about what I'm gonna play. I'm gonna think about, like I said, the s the structure, structural limitations or guidelines, rules, whatever you want to call it. For each solo. Mm. That's about as far as it goes. Yeah.

That's what I that's what I like to do. I've been sitting here looking at your drum set. Would you play us out, Dave Weckle? Ah, okay. I was just recording um a Kind of a funky a funky thing. Um so the drums are a little on the dead side, but um but snare drum is snare drum is pretty wide open. No no distant room mic. But here if I if I do this, I'm just gonna turn up this fader. You can hear this distant room mic's kinda neat.

Love the crowd. That's great. Man, that's cool. Thank you so much for the time, Dave. It was so great to get to hang with you and get to get inside your brain and just learn more about you. And I I appreciate it, man. It's so cool. It's such an awful lot. Lots of fun, Elmo. Thanks for having me, man. And uh, you know, just uh to everybody out there, thank you so much for continued listening and support and just have fun, man. Have fun playing. All right.

And thank you, Elmo. That was a lot of fun, man. Thank you so much. My pleasure. Dave Weckle. This is the stuff, man.