The Success Girl w/ Julianna Margulies

If I had a nice car, that was success to me, and particularly for some women, it's I'm the right weight or my hair is the right color. But success, as you get older becomes so much more than that. And today I'm so excited because I actually have a guest who's a friend of mine, Julianna Margalie's coming on and she is successful in every sense of the word. She's a successful person. But she's also got an Emmy, a Golden Globe as Screen Actors Guild, all things I'd never won,

but watched on TV. You likely recognize her as Alicia Florick, star of the long running hit CBS show The Good Wife, which she also produced, and Julianna is also well known for of course, being part of the original cast of e R. More recently, she starred on critically acclaimed series including Billions in the Hot Zone and she will soon be seen I Can't Wait on the sophomore season of Apple TVs. The Morning Show. Julianna has added author to her list of credits with the recent release of her

memoir Sunshine Girl, An Unexpected Life. She's been involved with Project a l S and Erin's Law, and is also a board member of the New York City based mcc theater Company. Oh I love her. Here's my conversation with the Sunshine Girl. As much as I want to talk

about George Clooney to of the Colscome home. Um, there was one theme that I pulled out of your book, which was the idea of success, and I thought for this podcast with you, I wanted to talk to you about what success means to people and what is success, you know, because it changes as we get older, and you know, when I looked it up, success is the accomplishment of one's goals. And everybody's goals are different. You know, some it's it's financial, some it's love, some it's you know,

Guinness Book of World records. So I kind of want to go through your life ending with this afternoon and talk about the success in many different areas of your relationship. So, as a little girl, you had parents that were divorced, as were mine when I was one years old, and so right off the bat, we were kind of programmed to look at that marriage as a failure. Right. It

didn't look like the other marriages. It was broken. Yeah, so that was kind of your first look at relationship success, right, right, Yeah, absolutely, And tell me about how you viewed your parents, you know, growing up into middle school. Your your mother had a lot of lovers in Paris. Jeanjean Jeanjeor Jean Pierre. My mother had many, many, many boyfriends, none that really seemed to stick around too long, and then some that did. The ones that I liked of course, Um, it was

heartbreaking for me. I got invested in her relationship, you know. And so the one that lasted the longest, which was five years, was Tony Dirio, my gym teacher, who I talked about, and that that broke my heart because he was the only boyfriend of hers that I felt really loved me. I had a very strange introduction into what

it means to be in a relationship, for sure. And I also had this other out of it, which was my father, who everyone seemed to just look up to and respect, and you know it was so smart and handsome and all that stuff, and successful in advertising, but always searching for something deeper. And he had the one girl friend that he ended up marrying, Vicky, my stepmother, So I knew her since I was too, But it was an odd thing for me to see. And that is because Vicky was far and she is still alive,

was far his lesser. Vicky was not an intellectual. Vicky was was shallow on every level you could be shallow, except she was a lot of fun and she knew how to dress, and she knew how to buy us girls clothes and um, she knew how to cook him his vegetarian meals. But she never challenged him intellectually ever. And it's so interesting because it's still a conundrum. Actually, I understand it on several different levels. My father, my father didn't really want anyone questioning him, which is what

my mother always did. My father liked being on a pedestal. My father was a great guy, So I don't mean this in a in a bad way. It's a sort of an old fashioned way of looking at a marriage. And yet I also know that my father was always trying to get out of it in some way, and finally, by the time he was retired, he said, this is who I've chosen, and this is who I'm staying with. Yeah, it's interesting just hearing this because you know, they were

divorced when you were not even one. Right, Their marriage was pretty much over when I was born, but they got legally separated when I was a year old. Right. I definitely connected with you on that level because then I thought later on in the book, you talk about how you just never wanted to get divorced, and I'm the same way. And I waited till I was thirty six and you were thirty. I was thirty nine when

I met my husband, oh so after me. And I think it was because I was a little bit afraid of getting married, you know, because I was terrified of getting divorced. But also I had seen both my parents go through a series of relationships that ultimately didn't work too. I mean, my father's third wife embezzled all his money and took off to Japan. So I had a sour look at marriage, and I thought, wow, this is a girl who liked myself as a child, looked at my

parents and thought, I don't want this. This is what I don't want. I never thought i'd get married, to be honest with you, and I remember being with a guy for a long time. I write about him in the book. I don't name him because this isn't a tell all. I didn't write the book to throw anyone under the bus. I wrote it to show my own reaction to a situation that really had nothing to do

with him and everything to do with me. And I remember once when he said when we get married, and and the bubble that came up in my brain said, we are never getting married. I'm never marrying you. It's so interesting, And I knew I would never marry him, but I didn't really think i'd ever get married anyway, because I had yet to see a healthy marriage. Nothing

to me felt loving and easy. You know, the subtitle of the book, An Unexpected Life, is because I am still in shock that I finally got to this life that I never dreamed in a million years would happen. This isn't supposed to be my life, right, My life is supposed to be tumultuous and chaotic and exhausting and scary and dramatic and exciting also, but just petrified because that's what I knew, right, But you pivoted at some

point in your life. You changed that narrative for yourself right, by the way, as did I, and I think actually we were both the same age when when we changed our narrative, because I was thirty five when I went something just snapped and I said, no more, this isn't working for you. You You need to start examining your own self and stop blaming others and start figuring out how to make yourself happy. So let's let's take a walk, shall we down relationship lane. Let's because again we're now

we're delving into the success of relationships. And you know, for a long time, I didn't know what a healthy relationship looked like, so I had nothing to mirror it, and so I was attracted to not not necessarily the bad boy, but the boy who somehow I thought mirrored myself. In other words, the guys that were not very nice.

I would take that that in as well. I don't deserve that, you know what, I mean, and I think you went through a very long, tumultuous relationship, which is really surprising for me when I read, because you are such a capable, strong, formidable woman, I can't even imagine you in the scenario. But again, you know, I think when we were younger, we didn't know any better. We didn't have those parents that it you know, sixty were

still holding hands and we just there was no reference. Yeah, I mean, I think I think for me, a lot of it, a lot of it was was that I was shutting a part of myself off because I was attached to what the title of the book is, Sunshine Girl, this label that I had been knighted with by my mother, which you know, on first look, was such a badge of honor. Sunshine Girl. I make every room the sunshines when I walk in it. I'm not fussy, I'm easy, I go with the flow. I bring people's spirits up.

So bringing that into my adult womanhood, I didn't know how to say no. I didn't want to ruffle anyone's feathers. I didn't want to in my in my business world and with my friends and even with my parents. I was a very strong, formidable woman. You know, but with men, I suddenly I was like, whatever you want to eat, I'm good. Everything was fine. I sort of played this role that I thought I was supposed to play because

that's what I knew as a child. And I thought, if I if I don't muddy the waters with my demands and with my asks and just say yes to everything, then he'll like me more and things will be okay and easy. Now, of course, I chose a man who was incredibly difficult anyway. He had he came with his own baggage and had had a horrible childhood and all of that, so all of his stuff was so difficult to navigate anyway. But he was like if you were the sunshine girl, he was like the doom and gloom boy.

And I I wanted to show him how the world looked through my eyes. That's that's how that's how just completely cut off from reality I was because my mother used to always say to me, you know, all honey, seeing the world through your eyes just makes the world a better place. So why couldn't I do that for him? And also I knew how to navigate really rocky territory because that's what I was used to so I knew how to I guess serve that kind of turbulent water

for for lack of a better metaphor. But what I didn't realize was I actually was. I was pretty miserable all the time. Oh God, And I just kept thinking, just grin and Barren. I don't know what I was waiting for. I actually, at one point I remember coming home from work, I was hoping I'd find him in bed with someone. Yeah, that's how chicken shit I was to be able to just say this isn't working for me,

I'm out. And it wasn't until I hit thirty five where I was just like and and actually, you know my girlfriend Nancy when she put it in numbers when she said to me, I remember that lightbulb going off when she said, when you are miserable of the time and happy of the time, it is time to walk out the door. If it was the other way around, it might be worth fighting for. And until I saw the numbers, it didn't really hit me how much of

the time I was miserable. And and listen when I when I'm reading that part of the book, all I'm thinking is you're not only in this relationship with what I think is a depressive but you're also trying to succeed in one of the hardest industies in the world, right, you know what I mean? I just thought, Juliana, what the hell's going on with you? Absolutely I shrunk myself down when I was with him. I was all most embarrassed at my success and I couldn't really celebrate in

it because everything was measured to what he had. And I remember, I remember doing this play. Right after I left the er, I went into a play at Lincoln Center and and I won the Lucille or Tell Award for it. And I'll never forget this. We were at a Starbucks on the Upper West Side and he said Jesus for that, Oh my god, wow. And I and I talked my and I was like, well, you know, maybe it's just because, you know, maybe because because I was on the r and I don't know, maybe I

just I couldn't own my performance in that play. Now at that point, I'm thirty three. I spent the night in my bathtub crying in my clothes. There was no water in there. I just cried my eyes out and I remember waking up going, what this is insanity? And it wasn't even that I needed praise from him. It was that I needed not like like him to meet

me on an even playing field. And I felt so guilty for winning awards, and you know, there was the Saga Wards and the Golden Globes and the Emmys and whatever, and every year it was are you gonna come? And then you know? And every year it was no, then, you know, not until they fucking acknowledge my work, uh, And it was always about that. I'm so sorry. Well it was my fault though, because here I was every you know, but I was watching you in my pajamas

eating Ben and Jerry's ice cream. I could I could have been with you instead of wishing I was you. But that's also part of you know, I'm so grateful that I've had all of that, because you wouldn't be with Keith. I wouldn't and and the truth is I definitely wouldn't see who Keith is clearly. And the way I met Keith was only after I had had three years on my own to really be okay with being me. And this didn't make it into the book, but um, there was a poignant moment for me in who I

was as a woman in a relationship. And it came one slightly hungover morning. Keith and I probably had been dating for a month, and we were making our way to the kitchen, you know those days when you didn't have kids, and late morning on a Sunday, making our way way to the kitchen to make coffee and read the paper. Yes, and I had a I had a white runner in my hallway and there was this big ball of fluff lying on the runner, and I, with my bleary eyes like, was bent down to pick it up.

And he was come standing behind me, and he said, are you serious. And I remember, for a brief moment my hand hovered over that ball of fluff because I got scared to show that I am an anal retentive person. And I pick up balls of fluff when I see them, like I can't walk by it. I can't walk. And I remember for a brief moment saying, don't pick it up. He's gonna think you're crazy. And I picked up the ball of fluff and I turned around and I said, Yep, this is who I am. I pick up fluff when

I see it. And he started laughing so hard and he was like, Babe, my apartments on bleakers, feel for you everywhere I love. That's so great, and I realized it was a small moment, but for me it was the biggest moment because I was saying, this is the real me, man, love it or leave it, and I'm not going to change for you. Too old. Too old doesn't work. There's a lot more to come after this short break, m welcome back. I decided at a certain point, I'm gonna be alone, like this is not working for

me at all. So I just shut myself out and I bought a house, which was a very big deal, up in the hills of Hollywood, and I started writing movies and I was good. I was really good. I was really content. And that's when I met my husband, George, and I was like, oh, for God's sake, I just bought a house, I got lemon trees. Now I meet him, you know, in his career, Trump's minds. So I got to sell this house and moved to New York. But the right person comes when you are in comfortable in

yourself and know yourself. And it sounds like you were sort of in a fear based relationship for so long that I'm happy you were alone and I'm happy that you ultimately met Keith. Oh my god. I mean, it's so funny because three days before I met Keith was Valentine's Day and I was I was doing the sopranos at the time, having a ball, and I had bought myself this loft and soho I felt so light and free. I could hang pictures where everything was just on my terms,

and I was in heaven best. And I got off of work early on Valentine's Day and I went to my favorite bookstore on Prince Street, McNally Bookstore, and I bought myself three books I'd been dying to read. And I made a bath, and I poured myself a glass of wine, and I put on my favorite classical music and I sat in this huge bubble bath on Valentine's Day by myself, reading and having a glass of wine and feeling like just on top of the world. I was like, I am good, Yeah, I'm fine. I've got

great friends. My relationship with my parents were good. But I just felt like held in the world by and I could hold myself up. And then three days later I met Keith and we had and we've never been apart it's amazing, literally three days later, like I was doing that before I met George, and still on my birthday every or I go away alone for the weekend, just to get back to that sense of self. Yeah. I think that's really important. I do too. It's really

important for especially for women. Um you know you really, yeah, it's important. And even when I was I'm the good wife with my baby and my husband, how I still didn't pay attention to my own needs. That's what happens because everyone else was in my mind more important. But then in the end you realize, you know, I married a guy where I could have easily said, honey, I'm just too tired to go drive two hours to the country shop. Cook cleaned load of that. I just want

to stay in and he would have been fine. Yeah, you know, I still carried parts of my old thinking into the beginning of the relationship because I still had this idea of what being a perfect mate is and and that just has to go out the window of horse because you're you're basically giving them a contract that isn't true, you know what I mean. I remember once, you know, I started crying because I had a newborn baby, and I was like, I get and I couldn't go

to the grocery store and so there's no flowers. There's just no flowers anywhere. And George, just like, I'm not asking you for flowers. I didn't even notice we had flowers. And it was just the pressure I put on myself, on yourself. And we all do it. We all do it, and that is the beauty of aging. I have to say, you get older, you know. Tonight like a perfect night, right.

I mean, this has been the an amazing day because my son went to school in the morning and my husband went to the office because I had all this press I had to do and and and then I thought, oh my god, I have back to back and how am I gonna go to the grocery store to get And I was like, Julianna, you're gonna order in this is New York City. Yeah, and things are open and

they'll deliver right too. That's it's so funny that you say that, because I had a couple of Zoom meetings this morning, and before I started talking to you, I prepped a salad, guacamole, everything in the fridge because I'm like, oh, I gotta I gotta do this. I get it. And you know they would love you without the guacamole, and they would be fine totally. They would be happy with a pizza or or pig Heaven Chinese food. Who doesn't love pig Heaven exactly? I know now, It's what we do.

All the two of us are also homemakers, and and and I think there is there is something really special about a home cooked meal. And I love doing it. I love people sitting down to the table and eating food that I've prepared. But it doesn't mean I don't love you on the days when I can't do it right, you know, And I have to be okay with that. I know for a fact that Keith would rather a happy,

calm wife than a harried, exhausted wife trying to do everything. Oh. Yes, As with George, I mean yes, I think when I even go away on my birthday alone, I always say to him I'm going to come at a better wife and a better mother, and He's like, then go off, you go have fun. So I want to again talking about your success, because it it's skyrocketed, But when you were waitressing at the River Cafe in Brooklyn, that must have felt like success. To you at that moment, you know,

your live in life. You were making on a good night two fifty dollars, right and tips. Well that wasn't the River Cafe. It was one fifty wooster. That's right, Brian McNally's place. Yeah, you know you were a struggling actress, but you know we've all waitressed, and that was kind of that was a big deal. No, and Helmett Newton took pictures of me that ended up in Yeah, Connidas Travel. I mean it was like, I've decided, Okay, I'm going to be an actress. I'm going to try this for

five years. If I do not start making money or getting jobs, I will be young enough to still go back to school and be a lawyer or a psychologist or so. You you gave yourself until right, Yeah, if I was still waitressing or bartending or checking coats, I was going to stop trying to be an actress because I felt like then maybe the world is telling me

I'm just not good enough. So I thought, if I'm gonna waitress, I'm gonna waitress at the place where I'm gonna make the most money and where it's the most exciting. And it just was a stroke of luck that the restaurant opened literally like a two months after I had graduated college, and a girl who had been at my college and graduated a year before me was the Matre d and it was the hot spot of New York City for six months. You know it. I think they I think they blew a lot of that money up

their nose. But it did get closed down. Oh, I remember those times, those days, but it was exciting. I mean, there wasn't a dull moment there. And and yeah, then you know, Interview magazine decided to do an article on on one of the waitresses there. They picked me and Patrick Damash took my picture, and I mean that never happened to me at Burger Kid. Wasn't there a part of you that thought, God, I'm I might be something special. There's I seem to be standing out. I guess, I

guess so. I think I was still really kind of insecure, um about the whole New York scene. And the idea of that magazine photo shoot was torture for me because I had never done a photo shoot. And I remember the megam artists really bushy eyebrows, saying, you know, I'm just gonna pluck a few, and I was like, oh, you know, or like like, oh, we're gonna do a little bleach on your on your mind. I was like, oh, like suddenly I got self conscious because I never really

thought about my eyebrows before. Or well, you're you're practically known for them, Julianna, I have dare they plug? Apparently, But that was like one of those moments where I remember my boyfriend at the time, we ran to the magazine stand the day it came out and opened it up and there I was in Interview magazine. It was like we couldn't believe it. You know, all my friends came over and we were all drinking champagne. It was

a big deal. It's a huge deal. Yeah. And from then then I got my first movie, you know, not from the magazine, but would you consider your first break the Steven Seagal movie. It was in that it got me my SAG card because once you had your sag card, and that was a bit too write it's a catch twenty two because you want the sag card so badly. I remember I got paid two thousand dollars for that movie.

The sag card cost nine hundreds to get By the time I got the two thousand dollars between taxes in my agent speed, it was like but that led to a bigger agent because then I could say I had been in a movie And I always said I had been in a movie with William forsythe He was the bad guy in the movie, and I I stuck to him and Gina Gershawn and all those people because I had had that horrible experience with Seagal and I didn't

want to be near him. So I would say to casting, I just did this movie with boiling Forsyth, and they'd be like the Steven Seagal movie, Like yeah, but by the way, getting your SAG card For people listening who don't really understand it, it's a huge turtle in the entertainment business because you needed to work, but you can't get it until you work, and so like you write

in your book, like I gotta get my sag card. Um. And you know, for me, it was begging a friend of a friend who worked on the soap opera Santa Barbara. I mean, you you really find any way you can to get that damn piece of paper. To me, it's it's bigger than an emmy, you know, in that moment, because because it'll get you the next job, you never again have to say I don't have a SAG card, right. And it also means, you know, when I was a waitress,

I didn't have health insurance. Health insurance? Right? Who had health insurance? I mean I never went to the doctor before I had my SAG card because it was too expensive. I always said, if I can pay my health insurance, pay my rent, and and still eat from acting, then I will stay doing this, right, And so that happened probably six months out of college, and I thought, okay, I did for a stint have to go back to

bartending after the Seagal movie. And I remember this sort of feeling of like, you know, because you have your just think, well, I got my movie and now I'm going to act always and I'm never gonna have to sling hash again. And then I was like, I can't pay my rent this month because it was a Steven Seagal movie. But but but still, you that was you. You got your your first break. And I don't even want to go into the Steven Seagal story because you

don't need to. It's it's actually an interesting story on how you dealt with it. But it's a sort of a me to uh cautionary tale. So that's why I'm teasing it a little bit because it's it's actually a really interesting chapter in your book, and it's something that a lot of women can connect with, and and particularly right out, he would never get away with that ship. Um. But so you do your first movie, you have your SAG card, and then you go out to Los Angeles, Yes,

and you because you're following this moody boyfriend. And right as you're starting to feel again like you have no money and you need to go back to New York, you get an audition for e Er. Yeah. And I want you to describe auditioning because to me, my my pits starts smelling, I sweat, I looked down at that. I'm a terrible auditioner, but I have a feeling you're a great auditioner. And I want you to tell us

about that. A few hours of going in that room and nailing it basically, Yeah, okay, So I mean I know that I get nervous in auditions. What makes me nervous is not knowing the material. So I'm a very studied student of the material before I go in, because things are going to happen. You know, Yeah, someone's in the room that's giving you a weird look or whatever it is. You know that that's going to happen. So

I was very prepared. What I wasn't prepared for when I went into the audition was the weight I at that point had. I had the Steven Seagal movie under my belt, but I also had a lot of regional theater under my belt. I was sort of known as the go to girl in New York for regional theater, and I've done a lot of it, and casting directors in New York knew me and we're very respectful of me as an actor. And when I got to l A,

I no one, no one knew me at all. And I waited for two hours to go into play what would have been a recurring role that would have been a romance with George Clooney had I gotten that part. And by the time the two hours were up, I was so angry and I felt so disrespected as a human being that they had made me wait for two hours. It just felt like a machine, a factory, you know, actors or Diamond Dozen school and there were so many people.

I don't think there was even room on the on the benches, and I literally was getting up to leave. I was like, you know what, fuck it, I'm out of here. I'm going back to New York where I'm respected. This place sucks. I'm out. As I was leaving, John Levy, the casting director, called my name, and so I went in to read for this sort of bubbly doctor who flirts with the George Clooney character, who, of course he wasn't known at the time. You know, no one knew it was George. And I went in and I did

my like kind of nasty New York tough. I was pissed, and I didn't care that Steven Spielberg was sitting in the room with Michael Crichton, and I didn't know who John Wells really was. I didn't care. I wanted to get on a plane and go home. So I read it with this terse, snide energy and then left, and John Leevy came out and said, you know, you're not right for that part, and I was like, real, a you think And you said, but you are right for

Nurse Hathaway. She dies in the pilot. Um, but we want you to read for her here, and he hands me sides. And I, being the stupid New York the ATA actress that I thought I was, I said, I don't do cold readings. I actually prepare. Can you believe I had the hoots to do this? And he said, first of all, he laughed, I'll never forget, because he had his glasses were sort of at the end of his nose, and he looked at me over his over his rooms like that, and he goes, so prepare, take

all the time you need. And then I went in and I read for Hathaway. And then I went back to my little rental in Laurel Canyon, and my agent Calwdon said, you got the part, and yet you didn't die in the pilot, did you? I didn't. I did the pilot. They paid me more money than I've ever seen in my life for the pilot, which I thought was amazing. Had the best time. I love being on that set. George said such a great tone. Everybody was great.

And then I went home back in New York and I was offered a job on homicide Life on the Street. And before I said yes to that, George Colooney had left me a message saying I think they're going to have you live. Don't take another job. And how was

George privy to that information. He wasn't a producer on the show or anything, no, but he was at a screening of it and Spielberg was there in Crachton and you know, all the cast, and he was sitting behind Steven Spielberg and he heard him say, oh, we can't. We gotta keep her. And so then he asked, I guess John Wells, and John well said, well, her character tested really high with test audiences. She they didn't like that. She died. So I lived, You lived. We're gonna take

a short break and we'll be right back. M and we're back. You had no idea what you had just fallen into, did you. You had no idea that cr was this huge hit. Um everybody watched e er, everybody watched it and talked about it. And you don't really realize you're even famous right until you're in the passport control at Gatwick Airport and somebody calls you there's seth Away, Welcome to Sussex. Seth Away. I was like, what, You're not gonna check my bag or put me in the

room where I can't get out. Nope, you know, I think you know that first year we all went from zero to a hundred in no time. Yes, you were on the cover of magazines, you were you guys were everywhere, all of you. And also we were always at work. So I wasn't out and about the way. You know, I wasn't in New York City where people can just say, hey, love your shower. But you know whatever, I was just

in this bubble of car freeway. I lived in Venice, so it was you know, the ten to the four oh five, the one at one, so every day it was like drive, drive drive. But I didn't I really didn't understand how big it was at all until I went to see my my childhood best friend in Sussex, England, and the guy at passport control, his jaw just dropped when he saw me and he knew my character's name, and I just thought, wait, I'm in England. Really, I couldn't believe it. Did it feel good? It felt great?

Oh my god, it felt so good. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it was a proud moment, for sure. It was. It was a happy moment. And fame in general, has it ever been scary? For you. No, I mean, I'm not. I feel like I've sort of go under the radar. I don't really draw a lot of attention to me with any kind of gossip. You know, it's not it's just not my way. I don't. What makes me uncomfortable about fame is when people treat me differently than other people and I'm standing right next to them. I'm very

uncomfortable with that. Occasionally I feel invaded. If I'm with my kid and I see them with an iPhone, you know, taking a picture, then I just feel bad for my kid because he didn't ask for that, and and I value his privacy. But I don't. I don't comport myself as a famous person, and so therefore I feel like it doesn't really trap me, do you know what I mean? I know exactly what you mean. But also I think part of that is there's a difference between being an

artist and being a celebrity. And you're an artist, you're an actor. Thank you for saying. I actually take that as such a compliment because it's sort of always been my philosophy in life is my philosophy, and life is what's the work. That's what's interesting to Yeah, the outcome from the work is its own beast that I don't need to engage in. But what's the work? I still I still, I have to tell you, like I still get um. Acting for me is it's almost like a

spiritual experience. Sometimes I've been so lucky with great writing, and the times where the writing hasn't been good, I haven't been proud of my work, but it's but that's been very few and far between in that usually I mean with the Good Wife, My God, I look at the lines I got to say on that show and the character I got to play, and and I miss her,

I really miss her. And that's very, very very telling when when you read the book you know how much a part of your life she's been, right, and and what's so it's what's so interesting to me, especially you know, being a mother and and and having a husband and and a life full of incredible friends, and I count you among them, is the ability to shut her out and have my own life when I'm engaged with other people. Was easy to shut her out when I was alone

with myself. While I was playing her was very difficult because I was always learning lines and dialogue. I had to think like her in order to memorize them. And so one of the cathartic things about writing this book really was shedding this skin of her and in a strange, bizarre twist of fate, getting the chicken pox, which in and of itself is shedding your skin ultimately right when the scabs come off. It was so poetic to me.

On a once I felt better. Um, but I look back now because I feel very much more self aware now than I was then. I think I was juggling too many balls in the air to try to even consider how I was actually feeling, to the point where you got very sick. I mean, that's how internalized everything was, right, and that does no one any good, right, I mean, I no one wants to be around a martyr. Yeah. So it's just been fascinating and I really, you know, I just can't. I can't get over the the place

I'm at now. I wouldn't trade my age now for anything. I am so grateful. I would not change my age. I would change my neck. I gotta tell you, I would change my neck. But otherwise, you know, success to me is all the wisdom I've gathered during my lifetime. So far, everything I've learned from the outside world, from people, from working, from my husband, from being a mother is remarkable and you just you don't have it in your twenties or thirties. You don't have the information, you don't

have the wisdom. And one thing I want to touch on before I do my big grand conclusion about how fabulous you are is that even when you're on the hottest show in the history of shows, you walked away from a twenty seven million dollar paycheck. And I don't want to tell the whole story here because again, it is such an incredible read and I want people to

really enjoy that chapter of the book. And the idea that you left to go do this play with Jason Robarts again is about how you are a true thespian. But you write the quote I decided to learn more, not earn more, which is an unbelievable moment in your life. And to me, you know that is the road less traveled, but it does have all the riches in the world. So and you're all about success with people, with friends, with family, with people to share it with, and you

are a renaissance woman. And this book it should be called Success Girl because because really and and enjoy every moment of your life right now, because it's a good one. It's a full, juicy life. It is so enjoyable to watch somebody who's gone through hardships in their life and we're able to create a quote unquote successful life. So um, I thank you. I always think success is it. I measure my success on my happiness. Yeah, am I happy?

I think that's that to me. When I see my child happy, I feel like it's been a successful day, you know. And my friends too, Yeah, I really do. I love I love I love that idea of what is success, you know. And that's and that's one thing my father had said to me about the million He said, I know a lot of unhappy rich people. Honey, what's your heart telling you to do? Great advice? And yeah, And I'm so grateful that I had him to to ask at the time. And I'm so grateful that you

had me on your podcast. I'm so happy, you know. I've been listening to it since it's since its inception. Thank you, I love it, thank you for being on it, thank you for sharing all this stuff. I cannot stress enough how great a book Sunshine Girl is it's a must read. She says, it's a must read, but it's really a wonderful book. I'm so proud of you, and I just adore you. Thank you. Well, you helped me a lot. I know it didn't seem like a lot, but you really helped me a lot. Well, you hit

it out of the park. Get your sweatpants on, go make some delicious dinner. You're free. You're free, alright, honey, bye, thank you. One of the many things I love about Julianna is, particularly when you read her book Sunshine Girl, you see that it was not an easy childhood. It was a lot of sort of fractured living. And it's amazing that she has found this partner and had this great kid, and it's really living a incredibly fruitful and

I'm not talking about money, but a full life. She's so much more than the cover of People magazine or whatever it is you think she is based on the incredible career she's had so far, but she really is a woman who had to figure out and had to get through all the crap of life to find her success and she has. And speaking of success, and there are big and little ones in life, this is a

big one for me. You can't see me right now, but I'm throwing confetti on my head and having a little glass of champagne because I just finished my first season of Go ask Alli, my podcast. Thank you so much for listening and for subscribing, and I'll be back. I can't wait to give you another season of Go ask Alli. Thank for listening to Go ask Alli. Be sure to subscribe, rate and review the podcast, and follow me on social media on Twitter Ali e Wentworth and

on Instagram the Real Ali Wentworth. And if you have questions or guests you'd like to hear from, I'd love to hear from you. Call or texted me at three to three four six three five six or email me Go ask Alli podcast at gmail dot com. Go ask Alli is a production of Shonda land Audio and partnership with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.